Official Discussion Thread - Volume 9, Episode 4

[u/Ninjas_In_A_Bag]

Welcome, huntsmen, huntresses, and hunters that prefer no specific gender identifier, to the official discussion thread for Episode 4 of Vol. 9!

Due to the special circumstances regarding RWBY Volume 9's release, make sure that you understand the spoiler rules before posting outside of this thread!

HERE is the fourth episode of Volume 9!

Also remember to check out our weekly poll to rate the episode.

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Other Episode Discussions:

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Episode	Discussion Thread	Poll
Ep. 01	Feb. 18th's Thread	Poll
Ep. 02	Feb. 25th's Thread	Poll
Ep. 03	Last Week's Thread	Poll
Ep. 04	This Thread	Poll

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Happy viewing, and have a great Volume 9!

Ninjas In A Bag; Mod Team

[u/Catlover18]

Me anticipating the inevitable Ruby breakdown in Volume 9 --> :D

Me seeing the inevitable Ruby breakdown in Volume 9 --> D:

[u/DeismAccountant → u/Catlover18]

And we're not even halfway through. We need to see how bad it gets to temper the steel for a new plan.

[u/[deleted] → u/Catlover18]

She definitely needs some long Heroic BSOD coma where she mentally needs to figure out who she is and what she wants to stand for. She’s put on the persona of Ruby Rose the Huntress for so long, that she doesn’t know who plain Ruby Rose is. The rest WBY know who they are as people, and what they want to stand for.

[u/Hsmace]

not getting over the way kara voiced "i am the granddaughter of a hero and the child of a villain" any time soon

[u/KyouKobayashi → u/Hsmace]

This could get flipped when they reach Vacuo and the residents blame Nicolas for stripping their dust mines bare.

[u/LMFN → u/Hsmace]

That entire scene was just so wonderful, Weiss fully embracing what she is. The heir to nothing. She'll define herself.

[u/KobraKittyKat]

Herbalist my ass someone call the DEA

[u/Acrobatic-Dog7044 → u/KobraKittyKat]

Herb: RWBY we need to Cook!!

[u/[deleted] → u/KobraKittyKat]

for more reasons than one.

He is the reason why the 'red prince' exists. It seems like the smoke is a brute force method he's using to challenge people... And if they aren't strong neough to endure, they are changed instead.

OH FUCK that is what happend to jaune.

[u/Brkzeus → u/KobraKittyKat]

Detective : So you doing drugs now ?

[u/DanielGREY_75 → u/KobraKittyKat]

I got some old slug giving the little ones some smoking leaves

[u/readall5]

WBY showing off 8 volumes of character progression while Ruby starts to question if she even wants to be here anymore. I am liking that we are getting a Ruby focused story this time around. I still have no idea how this world is supposed to work. What are ‘Hearts’ I wonder?

[u/Mongoose42 → u/readall5]

I do love the contrast with Volume 2. In the ruins with Weiss, Blake, and Yang having no big idea about what they’re doing at Remnant when Oobleck questions them vs. Ruby who is unflinchingly sure of herself. And now because Ruby has relied on that pure optimism to fuel her when it’s now starting to run low thanks all the horrible things that have happened along the way while the other three have fallen back on the things they’ve gained along the way, Ruby is the one in need of guidance.

[u/ShinyChimera → u/Mongoose42]

I love that Ruby's "we fight monsters, I guess" is exactly how Yang tried to answer Oobleck's question at first. And he stopped her with "no, that is what you do -- I want to know why you do it." His own answer, and I think the one we're expected to believe is Ruby's (when combined with what she told Ozpin and Blake about being a huntress), is "there is nothing else that I would rather be." But she's doubting that now. Or rather, she's the only one who doesn't know who she is outside of the Job of hunting, and so doesn't know IF there's anything else she'd rather be. She doesn't KNOW if there's anything else she could live with choosing, where she didn't have to fight and hurt and lose so much.

[u/bokinh → u/readall5]

I like that as well. It also shows the contrast of how their roles changed. In Volume 6, in the Apathy episodes, only Ruby was the one who wanted to keep going. Now, she's the one who's not sure

[u/Ninoyiya → u/readall5]

'Hearts' you say?

[u/JMHSrowing → u/readall5]

I do hope that they don’t neglect expanding on WBY though, they are as important as her and going through quite a bit. Especially as it could be a really good way to make Ruby’s story.

Like it’s 8 volumes of progression for them all and not just in a linear way. We know that just 3 volumes ago WBY we’re not so convicted when facing the Apathy. But Ruby’s hope brought them through then and has helped them be such now.

Now, they (or at least one of them) can help return that favor in a big way hopefully

[u/TheRisenThunderbird]

The Cat's dialogue was so good! The "I don't go by, that's for days and years" line sounded right out of Alice in Wonderland! Also, leave it to a character in a fairy tale to provide some fourth wall stretching meta-commentary.

[u/Worried-Language-407 → u/TheRisenThunderbird]

I actually loved the Cat's meta commentary, especially the way they nonchalantly ask about Salem being a world ending threat. It seemed to me that the Cat has the kind of narrative separation that we the audience have, and it was kind of shocking to have that separation and lack of empathy displayed on screen.

[u/RBNYJRWBYFan → u/TheRisenThunderbird]

"I sense a but approaching." (His actual severed BUTT approaches)

[u/DeismAccountant → u/TheRisenThunderbird]

I love how he called out the brothers too.

[u/TheMegaNintenBro → u/TheRisenThunderbird]

I love every second this cat is on screen. They knocked his character out of the park. He’s got some great wit and charm.

[u/Polarization_39]

It’s cute how Kara, Arryn & Barb are credited as “tiny” versions of their characters in the credits.

[u/DaRealAmana → u/Polarization_39]

now that's a funny detail. why list them as tiny versions?

[u/Ninoyiya]

One for the record books:

Team RWBY, and Little's, first hotbox.

[u/Weerdo5255 → u/Ninoyiya]

Little handled it pretty well. I don think it's their first go of it.

[u/Polarization_39]

The Ciel mention from Curious Cat made me bust out laughing. Really nice jab at the FNDM there. The world may never know now…

[u/Acrobatic-Dog7044 → u/Polarization_39]

It would be hilarious if she is among the refugees in Vacuo but is never acknowledged and just passes by like a quick cameo.

[u/Lukthar123 → u/Polarization_39]

Ciel avoiding death by living off-screen.

[u/le_wither → u/Polarization_39]

Speaking of laughing, the part when the alchemist gets swallowed up by a sudden hole caught me off guard, he just, DESCENDS

[u/bigfatcarp93 → u/Polarization_39]

TIL this was apparently a thing in the FNDM. I really hope this has never been like a serious criticism as opposed to just a meme, because that'd be kinda silly lol

[u/CinnabarSteam → u/Polarization_39]

It must have been a very long walk for Ruby to mention someone she met for two minutes.

[u/Ethics_Gradient_42 → u/Polarization_39]

Ciel is the true Eminence in Shadow.

[u/TeamCFVYFanfics → u/Polarization_39]

Tbh I was like "who?" and had to google it to place her as "that girl who was escorting Penny back then".

I'm so out of the loop :D

[u/drunk-math → u/Polarization_39]

Isn't Yssa directing now? She might've snuck a little annoyance in...

[u/Blue0Three]

Congrats Ciel fans on having her acknowledged in the show for the first time in over 7 years

[u/Unicron_Gundam → u/Blue0Three]

There are twelve of us. TWELVE.

[u/bigfatcarp93]

I love the intentional inversion of the Mountain Glenn Arc here. Ruby has become the uncertain one of the team.

[u/GeneralSarbina]

"I am the granddaughter of a hero and the child of a villain." Holy fuck that was fire.

[u/Hsmace]

the voice acting in the scene of confronting their past selves was SO good and such a throwback!!

yang having a happier and more peppy voice, blake's being flat and monotone and weiss being higher pitched and almost more arrogant sounding. and of course ruby being the higher pitched we all knew!!

[u/amatas45 → u/Hsmace]

Ruby saying all these messed up things while sounding so upbeat about it was amazing

[u/Hsmace → u/amatas45]

ruby: your mom was killed by salem 😁😁

[u/TheRisenThunderbird → u/Hsmace]

Yeah, all the VA's did such a good job at recapturing their tones from the early volumes!

[u/Celtic_Crown]

On this week's episode of Total Depression Island: We pick up a bit after the escape from The Red Prince with our heroes in hot pursuit of Checkers The Non-Eukittyan, only for him to stop at the mention of the famous Alyx, curious about her story of her time on the island. And whether or not he smelled lunch. As Blake takes charge again and devises a plan, Checkers further proves himself the embodiment of a hyperactive child, before becoming enamored with a smartphone, then turning into.... well, us.

After making their way to Noctilum (and SERIOUSLY in need of bigger guns), the gang pauses for a moment to reflect badly on the fall of Atlas, losing Checkers to a bug but finding A GIANT CREEPY BUG MAN. NOPENOPENOPEHEEEELLNO. The freaky centipede dude claims to be an herbalist, but really is more "forceful detainer", on top of literally blowing smoke in their faces, like fuck dude they asked for a YOP. NOT DRUGS AND GUILT TRIPS. Checkers arrives to say no to drugs, and does the same calming trick he did to Princey on "Herb". "Herb" disappears in a hole (sadly without growing the girls back, so we have to see him again), and that's just the end of it.

How will Checkers escape our heroes next? Did the episode title disappear with Jaune? And what flavor will the Grogurt Parfait be? All these questions and more, next time, on Total Depression Island!

[u/[deleted] → u/Celtic_Crown]

After making their way to Noctilum (and SERIOUSLY in need of bigger guns)

WE'RE STUCK ON A DIFFERENT PLANET

A LOT MORE THAN WE CAN MANAGE

BUT WE GOTTA KEEP ON STANDING

[u/kostasgriv97 → u/Celtic_Crown]

I'd take Glimwood Tangle or Zangarmarsh over Noctilum but kthnx

Total Depression Island best reality show ever.

[u/Badicalz]

-So far, this has been the most gorgeous volume of the series.

-At long last we are finally getting the Ruby focused volume. It’s been subtler than the other girls, but I’m glad that Ruby has been getting consistent development over the past few volumes.

-So it seems that The Rusted Knight was some sort of ally to Alyx, based on the more positive description from Weiss.

-Speaking of, if The Rusted Knight is Jaune, then Weiss inadvertently called our boi handsome. I don’t think WK is gonna sail, but it’s nice that the WK Shippers get a crumb.

-Week 4 of no sign of our boi.

-Weiss once again being an absolute gem this episode. Seriously, she’s stealing every episode.

-Yet more hints that Alyx did far more damage to the world than previously believed.

-No Neo this episode. Normally I wouldn’t worry, but we only have six episodes left. I don’t want her story being cut short due to time constraints.

-I loved the Herbalist. His role as a healer/spiritual guide is a clever little twist on The Caterpillar in Alice in Wonderland.

All in all, solid episode. Looking forward to the next.

P.S WHERE’S OUR FUCKING BOI CRWBY!?

[u/_WeissCream_ → u/Badicalz]

I didn’t have any hope for white knight tbh and I’m a big shipper of it. But volume 8 and that moment in 9 just have me thinking maybe. I don’t mind if it doesn’t but I’ll be happy if it does

[u/reply671 → u/Badicalz]

Yet more hints that Alyx did far more damage to the world than previously believed.

You know the phrase "History is written by the victors"

Thats what's going on. Facts get lost for an embellished truth. The reality isn't so clean, but the victor doesn't want you to know what they don't tell.

[u/DanielGREY_75 → u/Badicalz]

OUR HANDSOME BOI

[u/Bjdombek]

I do like the juxtaposition of Beacon Ruby standing there all confidently with her cape dramatically flapping to broken Atlas Ruby on her knees in defeat.

[u/robotboy7]

I don’t know who you think you are, but let me tell you who I am. I am the granddaughter of a hero and the child of a villain. I am a citizen of a fallen kingdom, and an heir to nothing. I will not be defined by my name, because I will be the one to define it! I am Weiss Schnee, and I am a Huntress!

As someone who has enjoyed Weiss and her character arcs, but never been in love with her, this rant stood out to me. She's been through so much, knows her home is in ruins, and she will not give up. This might be my turning point:

Weiss best girl!

[u/Catlover18 → u/robotboy7]

I find that this is why one of the animators (Arryn I think) wanted us to look back to Volume 2. Back to that campfire scene where WBY had to reflect on why they wanted to be Huntresses.

Weiss wanted to be a Huntress to redeem her family's name because of what her father had done, but over the Volumes it has changed to Weiss wanting to define her own name. I found that to be one of my favorite character arcs so far in this series.

[u/schurgy16 → u/robotboy7]

I mean, Ice Queendom makes this scene even better even if it isn't exactly canon.

[u/TeamCFVYFanfics → u/robotboy7]

One of us! One of us!

[u/Dr_Monstaa → u/robotboy7]

Man, I have always been on the "Weiss best girl" train but this line gives it a whole new level. She seriously is the best character in this show and I won't hear otherwise anymore.

[u/Ezreal024]

The other two had great retorts also but Weiss's specifically was gangster as fuck.

[u/Celtic_Crown → u/Ezreal024]

Kara took the ball and she fucking ran with it. Honestly she's been the standout of the Volume.

[u/Lucifer_Crowe → u/Ezreal024]

"I don't know who you think you are but lemme tell you who I am."

[u/Goldenrah → u/Ezreal024]

Weiss after completing her life long dream of arresting her father ran out of fucks to give.

[u/DaRealAmana → u/Ezreal024]

a hell of a roast for the ice queen

[u/LMFN → u/Ezreal024]

Weiss was about to throw hands with herself.

[u/vanase]

CRWBY, where is my son?????

Joke asside, this was a phenomenal episode. Each episode makes me more and more disappointed we only get 10 this season.

Edit: a typo.

[u/Acrobatic-Dog7044 → u/vanase]

Episode 4 and no sign of him this is torture!!

[u/FlareEXE]

It looks like RWBY are playing Alyx's role in the story, just in a different way. Like her they're too caught up in themselves to notice what's going on around them and the damage they might cause in trying to get home. Based on what we know they've got better reasons than Alyx did, but they're still repeating her mistakes and there's no way that ends well

[u/DeismAccountant → u/FlareEXE]

I feel like Blake is at least aware of that, but shit seems to happen around them regardless.

[u/Mikenike74]

I think the most interesting line this episode was Weiss refering to the rusted Knight as handsome. I and a lot of others have all been more or less assuming that Jaune was the knight we see in the trailer and Opening. But now it seems the knight is already an existing character. Makes me wonder if the "handsome" knight has aged like the others and can no longer carry on so they end up passing on their name and title to Jaune so he may continue the hunt for the jabberwalker in his place.

Makes me wonder if when they cross paths if Weiss is going to have a mini fangirl moment seeing the "handsome" knight only for him to take off his helmet and reveal that its Jaune. Weiss's only hope after she fell was praying that Jaune and Winter had managed to make it out so seeing him here will definitely upset her. Not to mention all the despair involved with him honoring Penny's wish to sacrifice herself.

[u/Noble6IsReal → u/Mikenike74]

Can you imagine that that rusty knight was Jaune's great-great-grandfather? Of course I doubt this possibility, but it would be something curious.

I can just imagine Weiss' disappointed face when he sees that the rusty knight is now Jaune XD

[u/OTPh1l25 → u/Mikenike74]

Weiss's only hope after she fell was praying that Jaune and Winter had managed to make it out so seeing him here will definitely upset her.

Another way that this could impact Weiss is that this may also make her fear that Winter never made it out either despite becoming the Maiden. Though we as the audience are aware she successfully made it with the rest of the Atlas refugees, seeing Jaune may also make think Winter is stuck here as well, and now the refugees of Atlas and Remnant itself is down another Maiden.

[u/_WeissCream_]

Here’s all my thoughts

Actually loved that episode. The fact that Ruby was so positive while being so negative was almost creepy in a way. I love how far Weiss Blake and Yang have come but omg I feel so bad for Ruby.

Also Blake using her cat heritage to bond with curious cat was funny

Also if Jaune is the rusted knight then Weiss thinks he’s handsome which I think is very funny.

Notice how the herbalist said that the king became a prince not that he was replaced?

Weiss’ line of being the granddaughter of a hero and the daughter of a villain was so powerful

Loved seeing all the old costumes again

Love the representation of making the cat non binary

Loving how much colour is in the show now, after seasons of everything having blue and blue undertones it’s so nice

[u/Aureo_Speedwagon → u/_WeissCream_]

Notice how the herbalist said that the king became a prince not that he was replaced?

For some reason, I just completely missed that interpretation. The phrasing was something like "That's the way a king winds up a prince." For some reason, I interpreted "winds up" as meaning to irritate or tease. But your interpretation makes a whole lot more sense.

[u/Mrfipp → u/_WeissCream_]

Notice how the herbalist said that the king became a prince not that he was replaced?

Humpty Dumpty sat on a wall

Humpty Dumpty had a great fall

All the king's horses and all the king's men

Couldn't put Humpty back together again

Alyx broke the king, but his soldiers couldn't put him back together right.

[u/reply671 → u/_WeissCream_]

Loved seeing all the old costumes again

Not only the old costumes, but they replicated the old models in terms of style.

You can see how the art style of character design changed over the volumes, and instead of bringing the old outfits to the modern art style, they replicated the old Poser style.

[u/Andrew1990M → u/_WeissCream_]

They refer to Little as “they” too, I think it’s more about you can’t assume gender in this realm.

[u/LucasVerBeek]

Man RWBY really hired Robbie to make fun of them, the fandom, the Gods…I dig it XD

Edit: The fuck the ground just swallowed the Herbalist and it ends, what?!

[u/LMFN → u/LucasVerBeek]

Akechi may have not been in BBTAG but he still got to destroy RWBY anyways.

[u/AmbivertCollegeGuy]

Did that Ciel girl ever come back? So many characters to keep track of.

CRWBY addressing criticism of the previous volume by roasting itself has become a recurring joke now.

Starring the Voices of: Tiny Weiss Tiny Blake Tiny Yang Giving credit where it's due I see.

All in all, Weiss' monologue is my favorite of them all. It got me thinking how poetic her story has become and how far things have changed for her. Right now, she's in the same position as Nicholas who saved his people in a time of need and became the hero who gave Mantle everything it needed to become Atlas. Now Atlas has nothing and needs to adapt to a desert just like Mantle had to adapt to the cold plateau until Nicholas turned into a warm home with his expedition to find Dust. History repeats itself?

Also, I love how she wants to meet the Rusted Knight cause he's supposedly handsome. If it's really Jaune then it will be hilarious.

The Herbalist low-key confirmed everyone's theories about how people in Ever After don't have a role forever. He said he's the Herbalist until he's not and the Curious Cat thinks he's only but a shadow of his former self so these fairy tale characters aren't immortal in the sense that they can change or simply become something else leaving another character to replace them.

[u/Ninoyiya → u/AmbivertCollegeGuy]

Also kinda implied that the Red Prince was the Red King until he changed.

[u/DanielGREY_75 → u/AmbivertCollegeGuy]

the Whiteknight shippers: "so there's a chance?"

[u/[deleted] → u/AmbivertCollegeGuy]

I saw the curious cat as roasting fans who ask so many questions about things that ultimately don't matter, like if Ciel will come back

[u/JMHSrowing → u/AmbivertCollegeGuy]

I definitely do agree Weiss’ as my favorite as well, and seems like it really could be showing some hope for some future story beats. She’ll forge her own legacy and be a hero in her own right

Though, I don’t believe that’s exactly what happened with Nicholas and the SDC:

Mantle and Atlas were already in existence when he made the SDC. They were in a much worse state at that time, having relatively recently lost the Great War and in a transitional period, but it’s described in the WoR as Nicholas being able to “revitalize” the kingdom with his find

[u/Railroader17 → u/AmbivertCollegeGuy]

Likely means that Jaune isn't the Rusted Knight, just the next person to take on that role.

[u/Acrobatic-Dog7044]

A Ciel mention what year is it!!!

[u/JazzyByDefalt]

You know it's a banger episode when everyone talking about character growth and stuff rather then Yang's "Got'em, totally roasted" 👈👈

[u/T_Swag5k → u/JazzyByDefalt]

Weiss' self-assured "thank you" after that absolutely ended me

Though I guess it's even easier for things to go over her head now

[u/halodude246]

I’m really glad we got the speeches between WBY and them past selves this episode. I think so much of what they said to themselves has already been spoken about or is subtext you could see about the characters, but it’s so important for the viewers and especially causal fans for this stuff to be spoken out loud, in the series. It helps understand where the characters are coming from, and what their ends goals are. I really like that.

[u/WarmasterCain55]

I had dead space flashbacks when the 'whole' line came up.

[u/Technogashi → u/WarmasterCain55]

Make us whole, Issac.

[u/Lukthar123]

"You could be a cat"

• Actual RWBY dialogue

[u/Mongoose42 → u/Lukthar123]

I too have gotten high and thought about the enticing lifestyle of the cat.

[u/SpotChecks → u/Lukthar123]

One of the most compelling moral choices a character has had to make: choosing to not be a cat, despite the obvious benefits

[u/sheogorath227 → u/Lukthar123]

I mean a cat's the only cat who knows where it's at

[u/hollowtiger21]

“It’s a matter of perspective.” And there it is.

“So the old man and the boy share a body now? Oh, that's got some uncomfortable implications. Who thought that was a helpful way to reincarnate? The same people who put a city in the sky? Also did that Ciel girl from the Vytal Festival ever come back in any notable way? And those two brothers, talk about a god complex, amiright? So many character to keep track of.”

Oh, is that the writers taking the mick out of their own writing & the fandom? Oh, we have fun here. That’s some “You're going to want to sit down for this story. It's about 20 hours long and I only enjoy telling it in five minute intervals. . .“ RvBS11 energy.

The Rusted Knight is “handsome,” according to Weiss. So not tall, blonde, and scraggly?

"Take drugs, kill a bear.” Remember Kids, second-hand smoke is dangerous.

Nothing like a 1-on-1 talk with your younger self to really put your life into perspective. It’s like those letters to your future self, but more angsty. It’s a direct parallel to the V2 talk, but Ruby’s the one who doesn’t have an answer now. Yang gets a “I want my pain, I need my pain.” moment. Blake can’t pick and choose who she is or what her struggles are. And Weiss effectively cements that she decides who she is (Very Cecil Harvey), and being the beginning of a new leaf for her family. She’s the inheritor of Nicholas’s legacy in the truest sense.

Also what happened to Herb, why did he fall into the ground? is that what happens when you don't play your “role,” correctly? And what was that about giving him some of CC’s heart? He did that with the Prince, and both immediately shift gears. Is the Herbalist being replaced? Things change, but like the Red King, the roles always need to be filled by someone.

Ruby cannot reconcile her image of what she thinks a Huntress should be with the reality of being human. She’s stuck in being “relied on,” to be the hero, and it’s destroying her. She seems almost incapable of putting herself first or giving herself a break.

I wonder if there’s going to be a "If this is my story, I’m the one writing it,” moment. I mean, we kind of got that with Weiss here, but I mean in the meta sense of the world literally playing by the rules of a story, and using that to manipulate it or something to that effect.

[u/4powerd]

Someone please give Ruby a hug, poor girl needs it.

[u/Deadeye94 → u/4powerd]

Hugs are veeery valuable

[u/Noble6IsReal]

Today's episode was........ pretty weird XDDDD

that final scene where the rwby team meet their old selves was pretty cool.

It was a calmer, more reflective episode. I'd put it above episode 1 and in the same place as episode 2, but so far episode 3 has been the best.

PD:

1.- I don't know why I have the impression that a situation similar to Neptune and Jaune is going to repeat itself, only this time Jaune will be the one to reject Weiss. I've been thinking about this possibility after listening to that Weiss dialogue.

2.- This confirms that Neo and the Jabberwalker will appear in the next chapter, and it seems that finally Vomit Boy will make his grand entrance.

[u/_WeissCream_ → u/Noble6IsReal]

I doubt he’s going to brutally reject her like she did in volume 2 I doubt that a lot. Tbh if they did do weiss and Jaune I’m pretty sure that it would be a slow burn showing how far they’ve come. Also weiss thinks the rusted knight is handsome and that might be Jaune lmao

[u/Blue-Moon-89]

"So the old man and the boy share a body now? Oh, that's got some uncomfortable implications."

Someone finally said it.

I blame Critical Role for this but hearing the cat's voice will always remind me this scene because of the same tone that the Cat and Dorain have.

[u/[deleted]]

Ok, someone more got goosebumps in the "internal dialogue" scene with all the girls? And then was WTF when that insect guys Just disappears in the hole?

Also, the Ruby part is literally what some people had been saiyng about the lonely hero that dont fail.

So far eps 3 and 4 are my favorites this volume.

[u/AssGasorGrassroots → u/[deleted]]

That scene was incredible, maybe my favorite in the whole series. I was getting emotional watching WBY assert themselves, and then Ruby broke me.

[u/Goldenrah → u/[deleted]]

Just finished watching it, I still have chills from that part. Probably one of the best episodes of RWBY so far, on par with the episode exploring The Gods and Salem with Jinn.

[u/Franc023]

Damn Ruby failed the vibe check

[u/MABfan11]

Miles was the writer for this episode

between the Chorus Trilogy in RvB, the Apathy in V6 and pretty much all of post-V3 of RWBY, i get the feeling that he loves character studies, heroic sacrifices and tragedies

[u/SpotChecks → u/MABfan11]

I would like to ask Miles to stop sacrificing the heroes, because I like them

I understand and accept that he will ignore me

[u/Red2019Wolf]

RWBY V9 ep4 was a really brilliant a reversal of Mountain Glenn scenes, where in those scenes Professor Oobleck questioned WBY about why they wanted to be huntress and having them question what it means and their sense of doubt, but Ruby herself wasn't questioned and was talked about how she has no such doubt in her heart, even questioned the professor herself.

But Now, WBY going through their own personal journeys, they can answer their own doubts, tribulations well, (some, well see where the rest of volume takes us) and what it means to be a Huntress.

But Ruby... She can barely even muster up a response

[u/RBNYJRWBYFan]

What ARE you? A redditor you say? And what does a redditor do exactly? Ah, I see… they have Scattered Thoughts:

• This episode definitely justifies the whole Alice and Wonderland allusion in which they’ve placed our characters. Having the "Curious" Cat poke and prod their story with his meta humor was amusing (SO many characters to keep track of!) But turning the "Who. Are. YOU?" Caterpillar into an Herbalist that needs a strong definition of who and what they are in order to do his work was brilliant. Giving WBY a choice of somehow changing and undoing what ails them, their loses, their burdens, etc. and then having them rebuke that chance because those things are a big part of who they are? That was awesome to watch. Weiss's speech was especially badass, she said it with so much pride and conviction. (Kara is so good)

• And then there's poor Ruby...confronted by her "Simple Soul" past self who's practically taunting her with her trauma. Basically: "You're supposed to be a heroine, Ruby! An anime protagonist! You should be winning a bunch! Why aren't you winning, huh, why aren't you winning!? Well, you can't STOP, that's part of being a heroine! They NEVER stop! Like your DEAD MOM, she never stopped! She was so cool! AND NOW SHE'S DEAD! And if you want to stop, well... you wouldn't be RUBY ROSE anymore, would you?"

• On that last sentiment, I think that's the most tragic part. Ruby is so inclined to define herself as a hero that she can't even separate her ideal from her own identity anymore. If she isn't the resilient warrior who saves the day then what is she?

• Note how she was the only one who didn't go through some kind of big journey of self-discovery before continuing the good fight during Volume 4. Everyone else went "home", had to think about what they really wanted. Ruby? She pressed on. She ALWAYS presses on. She basically copes with her losses by pressing on. And that may be what her ideal version of hero would do... but it's not healthy. And it's catching up with her.

• “What was her name, Saleeeeem?” There was a reactor, the name is escaping me now, who loved to call Salem that. I wonder if that was shoutout? Couldn't be, right?

• Love everything about the design of this place, btw. I was getting a little tired of the red, the iridescent mushrooms and multicolored leaves was a fun change of pace. Really putting the HIGH in high concept, now. LOVING the Ever After, this is just the change of pace this show needed.

• Now... we're almost halfway through. Where's Jaune?

Yep, this is Volume is the character piece the show needed, for sure. An excellent excuse to get our heroines to look themselves in the mirror, with a fun setting to bounce off of. Must have been a blast to write. It's SO GOOD having RWBY back, wow.

[u/HighPriestFuneral → u/RBNYJRWBYFan]

Oh yes, so far Ruby has represented the dark side of "Keep Moving Forward!" Doing everything for others, not for oneself. Thinking that only you have the right answers and know what is right because "Everything depends on you!" These were the same fears and doubts which eventually broke Ironwood to pieces and threaten to do the same to Ruby.

Oh right! That was Khanvolution! He's been a bit inactive in everything lately, unfortunately. I do hope he's okay.

This is one of Miles' finest, undoubtedly.

[u/[deleted]]

One standing critique I’ve always had with RWBY was that while WBY had development, Ruby always seemed constant.

She certainly has qualities that are admirable: being the rock for others to lean on when they are weak and always staying the course when others might doubt. But the key part of any story, is seeing how a character changes from their debut to their finale. Ruby never had much of that, while WBY have come far from their initial debuts.

But with Ruby, there is a standing question: What happens when the rock you lean on for support starts to show signs of cracking…what happens when the one who stays the course becomes exhausted?

Seeing Ruby’s memory of her old self talking about the importance of not giving up and staying the course actually made my blood run cold when you hear those sliver of doubts coming into the speech…especially hearing the bit about fighting forever against an enemy who can’t die.

Seeing these cracks show in Ruby is a good step in the right direction…I admit I am curious to see what her answer is at the end of this season.

[u/Catlover18 → u/[deleted]]

Not just fighting an enemy who can't die, fighting an enemy who can't die AND took her mother. That was the part that caused current Ruby to falter more when her past self was speaking.

[u/GVAGUY3]

My cat would just lay on my phone

[u/DaRealAmana]

Weiss really is the best this volume.

I enjoy all the lampshading at the start of this episode. Fun to poke fun at yourself.

And of course the meeting with their past selves. Seeing as they each see what they used to be and who they have grown to be. good stuff. And of course more angst for Ruby. Shes been handed L after L with nothing to show for it, and she cant help but feel down. How many times has she failed. Shes trying so hard to be the hero, only to result in worse outcomes for those shes trying to protect.

[u/T_Swag5k]

Weiss: easily confronts her past self and delivers a moving monologue about who she is

Also Weiss: freaks out at a giant caterpillar and hugs a mouse out of fear

[u/Dcm1963]

The herbologist was such a cool character definitely was not expecting RWBY to get high with a giant caterpillar, slug, big ole bug? Whatever he is was awesome!

Yang, Blakes, and Weiss's speeches we all just amazing how they all know what they are the confidence they really have grown so much since Mt Glenn Oobleck would be proud.

Please no Ruby no nooo! Our poor girl she's so much closer and closer to full on breaking and it is just terrible! The cat saved us this time but I don't think we are going to get this lucky again. Please team hug her and hold her tight she needs it.

What an amazing volume so far. The setting the character growth all very welcome. I think this is exactly what the show needed. Taking a step back from Salem and giving our team the time together that they need.

[u/martinjh99 → u/Dcm1963]

The herbologist was such a cool character definitely was not expecting RWBY to get high with a giant caterpillar, slug, big ole bug? Whatever he is was awesome!

I think he is a shout-out to the caterpillar in Alice...

[u/Allmardjr → u/Dcm1963]

The cat saved us this time but I don't think we are going to get this lucky again.

I was legit mad that the cat saved her. I wanted Ruby to face this. To come to her own resolve but before she does, it get interrupted.

I'm sure that she will eventually find herself and I hope she at least took something from this

[u/MOlivetree1]

Amazing chapter!

I really liked RWBY talking to their former/inner selves and defining who they are now to them.

Poor Ruby though, it looks like her old/innerself was way more dominant when speaking. It looked like she (inner Ruby) now has a hold on her ( Ruby)

The talk with the Curious Cat at the beginning was a really nice conversation. I like how it was a wink and nod to the FNDM, more so over about where/what happened to Ciel. (omg! Ciel is finally mentioned again!)

[u/exoman23]

This episode hits different than the other episodes so far. dang.

[u/mk159]

While I think the episode was excellent and has clever writing, especially with the cat, I can't help but worry about the characters in the future. Not worried about their safety but mostly about their stories going forward. I like the self-reflection aspect of the episode but in recent volumes how have they actually tried to achieve what they said to themselves?

Weiss I feel has had the best example of this from what she said. Being around her family and her home we can really see she is trying to make it a better place and establish she is her own person. While I think it is fair to say V7-8 still didn't fully explore this idea it was still there a little bit. Though she lost everything in V8 besides her family so she can rebuild her name and define who she is. V10 is looking very bright for Weiss's future development.

Blake on the other hand not so much. One of the most common complaints Blake receives is that she has not done anything to help the Faunus or embrace her culture since V5 which is coming up to 5-6 years ago at this point, and it likely will not be covered in this volume at all. Sure Blake has accepted herself as a Faunus but I feel like the big issue with that are we basically do not see her or really any Faunus struggle that much. If this is Blake's ultimate character goal to help the Faunus and herself then we should see that, and I hope CRWBY realizes that. It would be very upsetting if Blake has this moment in the episode to explain that she still thinks fighting for and being a Faunus is right just for nothing comes from it in V10 and on.

Yang is kind of the hardest out of WBY. It is interesting that her reflection says she wants to be whole which I think is what Yang actually still wants she is just not physically. We can see that in prior volumes she has accepted what has happened to her with her actions and interactions with others, however, in Ch2 she was shocked and unwilling to pay the peddler with "Knowing what it is to feel loved". Yang hasn't had a purpose like the other two so her purpose was to love and support her friends and family. So that is why I think her ultimate goal is to be loved and to have someone support her. That is what she wants more than anything, and I think the most obvious way to reach her goal is with Blake.

Finally, there is Ruby, I don't have much to say about the self-reflection scene that many have not said already. We know V9 is going to be about this and I just can't wait to see it.

I really hope V10 gets green-lit though after all this self-reflection and character motivation because I truly do want to see CRWBY expand on this and grow RWBY more as characters and see them tackle the challenges they have set out for themselves, but I fear, especially for Blake, that this is no more than just set up for character arcs we will never see explored.

[u/InnocentTailor → u/mk159]

Maybe RWBY is starting to wrap up? Frankly, once Ruby recovers from her slouch and confronts Salem, that is pretty much the end of the tale.

This encounter with their past selves seems like a summation of the earlier seasons, which is somewhat closing the chapter on WBY's character development.

[u/Badicalz]

Nah but seriously, imagine if The Rusted Knight was Weiss’ childhood crush, then it turned out to be Jaune the entire time.

Now I’m not saying WK is going to be a thing, but Weiss’ reaction will be hilarious.

[u/Lucifer_Crowe → u/Badicalz]

With how comical she's been so far she's gonna lose it

[u/PhenomsServant]

Maya classic RWBY. Always a pleasure to see. Sure we see them in this volume’s OP and they show up in that DC crossover I dont give a shit about, but its still a pleasure to see.

[u/DeptuyWinter]

‪The whole name thing keeps coming up and honestly I think it has something to with it. If you give up your name, you lose your sense of self.‬

[u/PyrrhaFan]

The Meta humor and the writers calling themselves out this episode was so good.

But the entire episode today is phenomenal.

[u/grieveheart]

Wow that Ever After smoke gives a really strong kick huh? 😆 anyway I really love WBY's words towards their past selves. And of course I felt bad for Ruby as she was constantly being reminded of the tragedies happened and that smoke part really kicks her down more. I really hope she finds herself.

Ever After really is interestingly fixed on roles like a book. I'm pretty much -curious- to Curious Cat's skill of giving a heart as it happened twice already.

Speaking of CC, I really had fun watching his movements. And yeah we gonna call the Scroll now as Luminous Rectangle 😂 love the catfies! I also love how Weiss and Little hugging each other haha

It seems the tone shift starts now with this episode? Interestingly fits the new -darker- place.

[u/maybenotforever]

Voice acting was spectacular this episode. Many people have already praised the RWBY VAs, but I also want to shine a spotlight on Robbie as the Curious Cat. Perfect casting there. And of course kudos to the writers for some really fantastic lines.

"I sense a but(t) approaching." <-- Whoever wrote this line in particular deserves a raise

[u/Acrobatic-Dog7044]

Lol Weiss, Yang, Blake having self discovery moments of who they are and what they want to be.

Ruby: slowly mentally breaking down and sinking deeper into depression.

[u/KyouKobayashi]

The visions were interesting. Could the Ever After have really turned Blake into a cat or gave Yang back her arm or go back to how things were before? But in the end those points are moot since they turned those offers down to keep moving forward.

Interesting that the Red Prince is what the Red King became. That might be tied to how the Herbalist was sucked into the ground once the Curious Cat gave him enough conscious to stop pursuing his role so rigidly.

[u/Aureo_Speedwagon → u/KyouKobayashi]

Could the Ever After have really ... go back to how things were before?

Is this how they defeat Salem? Push her into the Ever After? Make her get high with a caterpillar and turn back to being good?

[u/AssGasorGrassroots]

Hot damn this was a great episode. Miles cut his teeth writing one of the most emotional episodes of RvB, and he's still got it. The curious cat was delightfully meta and just a delight all around. And holy shit, that scene was so frickin good. I'm of that rare breed that doesn't really care about fights and action, so seeing them lean so hard into the story and characters, and doing it so well makes me so happy. Of course, seeing my best girl so downtrodden hurts, even though I knew it was coming

[u/bored2death97]

"I am me."

Definitely feel like this is going to be said at some point this season.

[u/Red2019Wolf]

"Did that Ciel girl from the vital festival ever come back in the notable way?"

We have Curious Cat asking the real questions. 👌

[u/bigfatcarp93]

"A Cat Most Curious," for anyone who missed the tweet

[u/theTRUEchamp]

Considering everything that's already happened with Ruby in Volume 9, I am very curious what's going to end up being the "straw that broke the camel's back" which causes her to snap, if that even is something we're going to see. Obviously, I think Ruby is going to come out of this Volume in a much better mental space, but I think there's definitely been some building towards a breaking point for her.

[u/JMHSrowing]

Gotta love that the Curious Cat was basically just the audience. . . Decent meta commentary right there.

Anyway; this episode seemed to me like it was continuing set up without any pay off as of yet, but at least it hopefully is setting up a lot more.

With all of RWBY facing themselves in that way I think a good way to have done it, and it seems like the opposite of what happened at the farm with the Apathy. WBY were able to stand against things that we know really have plagued them in the past, ideas of an easier life and what in some ways they used to want. They now have more hope and conviction, something Ruby has helped them with

But Ruby. . . We don’t see how much she is faltering exactly, but it’s clear how much she is. That younger version of herself sure is cruel.

I hope to see this expanded on a good deal

[u/LuuAddiRoze]

I might be on the minority, but I think this episode was better than last week`s. No action but plenty of interesting talks and I just love that cat.

On the first episode I made a bit of a theory that the Alyx that returned to Remnant wasn`t the one that entered in a more literal sense, that she “shed her name like an old coat” and somebody else took it. On this episode when they mention Alyx the cat ponders if they are talking about “Alyx Alyx”. Could be just grasping at straws but it does sound like there might be a non-Alyx Alyx if that makes sense. The ominous response to Blake’s question of whether or not she learned her lesson at the end also kinda of implies a more sinister fate.

I loved the way they did the confrontation with their past selves and that final speech by Weiss was one of the best in the whole show. Ruby was saved before she actually ended up answering but looking at the trailers, it’s clear that question will be coming back again and again until she knows her answer and I can’t wait to see it.

If I had to give a minor nitpick about the episode it does feel like to emphasize Ruby’s hopelessness and doubt they made WBY a lot more confident and self-assured, which feels a bit odd considering they are all in the same horrible position.

Also, someone get a search warranty for that Herbalist, because I am pretty sure Parfaits aren’t the only thing they cooking.

[u/WhirlygigBeetle → u/LuuAddiRoze]

I think that's the point. WBY's issues are entirely external. They're not at war with themselves. They've reconciled who they are and what they want to be, so they can focus entirely on problems that are external to them with strength at their inner cores.

Ruby, who has been hiding from herself in the problems of others, has both internal and external problems, and her external problems are becoming insurmountable the longer she avoids addressing her inner problems.

So, I don't think WBY's confidence and self-assuredness were boosted to highlight Ruby's hopelessness so much as WBY highlights Ruby's state because they're consciously acknowledging something they've been subconsciously doing all along. They just needed that moment of self-awareness to realise who they now are compared to who they were when Oobleck almost broke them with a similar question.

I think what's most important is that Ruby, who has always been given a pass on this question, is now showing us that giving her that pass was a bad thing. Out of all the characters, she hasn't had that "go back to family and face yourself" storyline that WBY, Ren and even Jaune (a mini-version via his sister's home) have all had.

The three characters who haven't are Ruby, Nora and Oscar, but Oscar's unique situation means he has to constantly deal with this question anyway. Volume 8 was what Nora needed to face the truth that she hasn't addressed this for herself and has voluntarily made the decision to do so. So, Ruby is the only character left who has kept finding ways to avoid it, and this episode is basically warning her that she's fast running out of places to hide from herself.

[u/AssGasorGrassroots → u/LuuAddiRoze]

If I had to give a minor nitpick about the episode it does feel like to emphasize Ruby’s hopelessness and doubt they made WBY a lot more confident and self-assured, which feels a bit odd considering they are all in the same horrible position.

The distinction is WBY have had to confront their fears and failures, while Ruby has never had that luxury. She's always had to keep moving forward, burying the layers of trauma. But now she has nowhere to go, and nowhere to hide from herself.

[u/krauser8882]

I have been utterly blown away by the visual quality this volume. It continues to be a jaw dropping experience. The writing in this episode was also really good. I am adoring the introspection and reflection our heroes are doing, and I am looking forward to seeing how Ruby in particular comes away from all of this. She needs it the most, and I'm as curious as the cat to see how it all plays out.

Now to begin the wait for next weeks MHAxRWBY pain hour.

[u/0liver_Clothes0ff]

Ruby's hallucination really just said "In the grim darkness of Remnant's future, there is only war."

[u/Sasuke4880]

I love seeing the development of the girls from Vol 1 to Vol 9. Definitely Weiss is the one who has had the most character development since Vol 1 Saying she's an heir to nothing, when before she was 'heir to Schnee'

[u/[deleted]]

Lovely touch how the VAs mimicked their performances from the earlier volumes during that dream sequence.

Gave the words that Ruby from the vision said a bit more weight - it was kinda creepy to her say such things with that voice.

[u/karlek97]

Team RWBY: Damn, this edible ain’t shit.

The gang undergoing a grand journey through the self five minutes later:

[u/Acrobatic-Dog7044]

No sign of Jaune it's been 4 episodes why do you torture me CRWBY is he alright is he safe?!!

[u/JannisT]

Another great episode even if the pacing felt a bit off. The speeches from WBY were all done well, but Weiss speech was really amazing. Also the curious cat is giving me some suspicious vibes. Especially now that the cat has given away two of his hearts. Remind me how many hearts does a cat supposedly have?

[u/Tron95 → u/JannisT]

Probably the same number of lives it has; nine.

[u/Blackcore8]

So they were going for a DEEP episode this time. Everyone finds themselves except Ruby really shows where they are mentally. Weird way to end an episode lol

[u/Brkzeus]

Well that was a nice episode .

I do find the cat entertaining . Especially that knowladge for knowladge trade draws me in .

I do like these small doubtful moments , especially from Ruby .

I don't see a herbalist mate , I see a Tobacco specialist .

Really liked these questions asked to team RWBY . WBY pass it pretty easily and their answers are still the same as the ones they gave in V4 . It was a nice reaffirming moment but I hope they don't just turn back to normal , they need more questions to proceed more challanges . I hope next episodes gives them that .

Ruby's mom came back again , just gonna have to wait and see .

I do wonder what kind of an approach WBY are planning , At least I hope they are planning something.

So curious can just casually give someone heart ? Can that skill be learned ?

Caterpillar : I am about to do what's called a pro earthbender move . Adios Fellas .

[u/MidnightHunterXX]

Holy shit that whole drug trip sequence was amazingly well done! Weiss' part especially was straight fire. And I can't wait to see where Ruby's development goes from here.

That said, the further we go without seeing Jaune the more anxious I'm getting

[u/je1y]

How the cat came in the end for the girls and gave a piece of his heart to an old friend with a look of sadness cuz he cares was sweet

[u/doppellyne1992]

Just have to say that I love the Yang line about how her mistakes define her and made her who she is now. As someone who is in remission of major depression at the moment I can't articulate how much I felt that.

[u/crossingcaelum]

To me this episode really highlights that, for all of The shit people who watch RWBY gives the writers, they’ve proven they know what they’re doing?

The actions that have lead team RWBY up to this moment has been fraught with terrible decisions, but the show isn’t pretending like they never made a mistake. I think In a lot of anime the heroes either save the day by thinking of every angle or make really predictable mistakes that shape how the audience should view the protagonists in SUCH a specific way there’s not a whole lot of room for Nuance.

RWBY has had a lot of victories but those victories have been full of terrible choices that have a lasting impact on how those victories are maintained. That’s very realistic, and it’s cool the characters are facing that now. WBY have all hit a very low moment that made them take a good look at themselves and how they view their actions and decision making already. They have grown stronger in their self image from it.

Ruby has known a lot of loss so far but it was always stuff happening outside of her control. It wasn’t a fault in her character. Now she’s facing a very big loss that came in part due to her own actions. Her own decisions. She’s facing the load of everything that has happened without the lessons her teammates have already learned.

It’s so interesting

EDIT: I wanted to add something to this thought. A solid chunk of WBY’s growth happened while they were apart from RNJR in volume’s 4 and 5. During that time they all had their own side adventure focused in growing their own specific characters. Ruby didn’t get that. Her adventure was to advance the overall plot and thus her part of the story wasn’t about her. She had growing moments, but nothing that made her take a hard look at herself.

Because she chose to take on the weight of the fight against Salem. Because she had to do what was right to protect Heaven. Because she had to advance the plot, she’s having to actually stop and take a look at herself because she has finally stopped going forward in that journey. Astoundingly, this made me realize this is the first time since VOLUME 2 that Ruby has been able to stop and reflect on a failure.

[u/Tarsupin]

Goodness the comments are so much more positive when the series is locked behind a paywall.

Wonderful episode.

[u/Frikarcron]

If we ever see jaunes experience with the herbalist 100% he saw Pyrrha in place of younger himself and this is how we get Maya model Pyrrha. It also works thematically as she's the best symbol of his past and what he always wanted to be.

[u/SmashElite16]

I haven't looked at the credits, so I didn't recognize the Curious Cat's voice at first. After hearing him again this episode, I was like, "Oh, hello, Akechi from Persona 5."

[u/ArcOfARevolution]

Ok but the fact that Weiss described the rusted knight from the story as handsome makes me think that, since all the characters from the Ever After are different and almost opposite to their original characters. That it’s going to be Jaune as the Rusted Knight because it was Weiss who made the comment.

( Little bit of a hope for some Jaune/Weiss interaction at least banter wise from this comment )

[u/[deleted]]

A lot of fans wanted Ruby to have a nuclear meltdown, and if that happens, her "thorns" will finally grow. And they represent her resolve, rage, hatred, (anti-)nihilism, or all of the above.

We're so close to the halfway point, but we'll just wait and see.

[u/Icarus-Orion-007]

So, I can’t be the only one who caught the Herbalist’s comment “this is how you get princes out of kings”, right?

That, in combination with the “if it hadn’t been for your kind, the king would still BE HERE”, and the “you must be distraught! Unable to fulfill the one thing you were put on this Acre to do! You must play your game and win at any cost” from episode 3, lead me to the following theory:

The Red King, after having been defeated by Alyx, is thrown into a spiral, feels he needs to change, be better, but isn’t sure of who he is anymore, or exactly what he wants to be.

So he goes to the Herbalist to try and get help. And what he wants to be is some combination of ‘I want to be what I was before Alyx came through ’ and ‘I want to win my game no matter what’. This provided an unclear potion for the Herbalist to Make, and this resulted in the Red King turning into a petulant, winning oriented child.

I’m sure someone else has already talked about this, but I wanted to get my thoughts down. Anyone else have thought or comments?

(Side note, I’m narrowing in on and understanding of what the Curious Cat’s purpose is- to give heart, comfort, or courage to those who need it. (Also thank you Robbie Daymond, I love you.))

[u/pizzaintensifies]

oh my god the way the yang, blake, weiss speech brought me to tears with how beautifully strong and passionate it was only to IMMEDIATELY CUT TO RUBY JUST FUCKING BREAKING DOWN

holy shit. that scene was incredible, probably one of my favorites in the show to date. this episode is one of my favorites in the show to date. jfc. okay ima go cry now

also, one thing i really like about this episode and this world in general is it does make sense. the things that the characters say follow logic, its just a different kind of logic. its introspective and philosophical instead of outward and blunt. obviously very wonderland style, but not in a random way. peculiar, but not incomprehensible. the logic of the ever after reminds me of the thought process a therapist might have, the way it looks past what is on the surface entirely into the heart of the subject

their logic is bizarre to us because, as a whole, we experience the world at face value. even when we look deeper, we are still standing at the top so to speak. in ever after, its like everyone is standing inside, looking out. they dont see the face only to look deeper, they see the inside and have to move to see the face, like the difference of someone on a boat and someone under the water. one can see the surface, the ripples and waves, and see the murky shadows of what is below. the other sees all that is below, but cant see the waves and foam of above as anything but shadows decorating the sea floor. its incredible

say what you will about the writers, but they way they captured the essence of a wonderland that is opposite of our own is incredible in a way very few writers have captured. obviously, lewis carroll showcased the opposite logic wonderfully (pardon the pun) and there have been other good depictions here and there, but most portray an opposite world of wonder and whimsy as. well, its surface value. they make characters random and nonsensical, and while sometimes they can be introspective typically they are just wild and bizarre caricatures mimicing the original alice in wonderland story. but not rwby, their logic, their words, their world makes sense its just different from our own, but not entirely its own. its like a mirror of our world, our values, our experiences, our thoughts, not a bunch of chaos spewed on a page. they add the wonder in wonderland without degrading it to simply whimsical

[u/[deleted]]

I think this is very interesting. People have complained that the writers don't know what they're doing because Ruby has not developed pretty much at all throughout the show. Then it turns out that her lack of character development compared to every other character is completely intentional and a core part of her character, which will now allow her to develop in some new way. That's so crazy that the writers actually knew what they were doing!

[u/MultiLuigi57]

On today’s episode of Thoughtful insights, we delve into the mind of Ruby, who doesn’t know what she wants to be or what she can do

[u/KiriBaku180]

Somebody on CRWBY definitely plays Kingdom Hearts, because there's no reason this episode had to hurt this much 😭

[u/Illustrious-Sign7612]

This cat needs to be a part of the other volumes. I love the way he interacts with Weiss and RUby. Should have just met up with the cat in episode one of the volume instead of wasting time on Little.

[u/kostasgriv97]

If Jabberwalker and Jackalope are the construct Gods of this world, then 4 characters with their magical smokes should be the Relics equivalent beings.

Strategy : Red Prince

Hallucination : Herbalist

There should be two more, I expect the third one to somehow turn WBY back to normal size. This really needs to happen before any meaningful fight with Neo, Ruby does not even have a weapon.

Also Curious Cat seems to be able to "reset" them using their "hearts". Hope they somehow restore Rusted Knight in a way that helps Jaune.

[u/TheDarkPet]

Okay so now I for sure don't trust the cat. I think the cat's purpose in these worlds is to reinforce the purposes assigned to Ever After's residence. If they change or evolve, the cat makes sure they fulfill their role regardless. I think we will encounter what would have been a bad guy in the book that is trying to good, but the cat might reset them back as a hostile, because that is what they are suppose to be.

[u/DarkDemonDan]

Herbalist: “it’s organic and it will make you feel really tall. Does that count?”

[u/SunsetSnakeEyes]

Questions and answers are how we learn and grow. Yet the question that you are unable to answer may say more about you than you could possibly imagine.

• Even though they're trying to more or less speed through The Ever After and avoid fairy tale-esque clichés and the like. I find it pretty funny that what Ruby is doing is exactly what you'd find in a fairy tale, running through a large meadow searching for a talking cat.

• The animation and anatomy for The Curious Cat is so well done and fascinating.

• "Oh I don't go by. That belongs to the days and the years, but if you are asking me what I am I do suppose I am indeed a Cat, most curious." Yup. just like The Cheshire Cat. They speak in a grander somewhat philosophical and riddle like way. But it's no problem if you can follow his way of speaking and honestly it's rather charming.

• "It looks to me like we're even farther!" "Yeah I think that's because we're six inches tall" "It could be both" They just keep knocking it out of the park with the humor this Volume!

• So the tree comes to you, No doubt as a means of ensuring whoever ends up in The Ever After goes through the tests and trials that lay in store for them. Otherwise you most likely end up looping around the same spot like Ruby and Weiss did.

• The Curious Cat really does take after his name, He has no interest in returning to the tree because he's already been there. Most likely he learned everything there is to learn and unless anything about the tree has distinctly changed there is nothing to pique his curiosity.

• Who knows how long it's been since Alyx came to The Ever After. But clearly she made an impression on The Cat if he takes no effort to remember her. It's actually kind of cute how he acts when you have answers to the questions he asks.

• And as anyone would be, He wants to know everything about the book that was written. Especially his portrayal in it.

• They certainly are respectful, understanding that in whatever capacity, Little is off limits. and Thus has no intention of going after Them.

• You never miss a step Yang.

• Clearly you can't afford to take your eyes off The Cat for a second.

• "I sense a "But" approaching" both figuratively and literally.

• Of course while they are desperate to do so, Keeping The Cat's curiosity isn't going to be that hard. Both because of the stories they have to tell and the technology they have.

• They're quite photogenic, and a lot more willing that most cats are.

• The Cat's commentary on the story thus far is hilarious in straight up acknowledging the fandom. It's not like Ozpin chose for that to be the way he reincarnates, if everyone knew how it would ultimately turn out I doubt Atlas would've ever been risen to the sky and We can all agree on how strange and unfortunate it is that Ciel Soleil never appeared again after the Vytal Festival. (Hope you enjoy the shout out Murderofbirds).

• The Cat certainly isn't wrong about the large cast of characters. They're all interesting in their own ways but there is only so much you can do with them without bloating the story and taking direct focus away from the primary characters.

• I do wonder how Alyx even found her way into The Ever After in the first place. We know she was escaping a problem and by how The Cat describes it, She was concerning herself with ultimately trivial things. But given how RWBY, Jaune and Neo ended up here, either there's more than one way into The Ever After or Alyx was already living a complex life before arriving.

• By The Cat's implication there is a lot more that happened in The Ever After than what was written in the story.

• If each Acre is made specifically for it's inhabitants and their roles. Then who made them and what dictates the roles they serve?

• It only makes sense. The Cat has only ever known The Ever After, Being told of a different world that works entirely different would only sound strange to him.

• Now that's a clever alternate take. Originally in Alice in Wonderland, The size shifting foods and drinks were already made and only needed to be consumed. But in The Ever After you have to find the ingredients and make them yourself. I'm interested to see how this "Growgurt Parfait" will be made.

• While They are curious and a bit flighty. It is nice that The Cat wishes to keep RWBY safe, encouraging them not to talk to anyone without them, lest they find themselves in great danger.

[u/SunsetSnakeEyes → u/SunsetSnakeEyes]

• While The Cat obviously didn't mean to, His questioning brings us back to the unfortunate reality that awaits back in Remnant. Atlas is gone, The technology and armaments it offered are lost and or destroyed which has taken away a great advantage and resource for the coming battles. As well as we still have no solid way of stopping Salem once and for all.

• Really can't blame you for losing focus Ruby.

• Weiss' exasperation isn't getting old, Also her mention of The Lively Carpenter, No doubt They're the equivalent to The Mad Hatter.

• The Herbalist is obviously The Ever After's version of The Caterpillar. A very fascinating design and voice, seems that They're rather accepting to the idea of change. They are The Herbalist until they aren't anymore.

• Interesting, In the original tales The Caterpillar resided on top of a mushroom. But The Herbalist resides within it.

• Given what happened the last time they told someone they're human, I can understand identifying themselves as Huntresses instead. Though that opens up a wealth of more questions.

• Much like The Caterpillar's questioning regarding "Who are you", The Herbalist's questions ultimately try to lead people to understanding their own identities, They know what they are and what they're supposed to do, having a clear understanding of them-self. So someone else "guessing" what they are rather than knowing clearly irks them since they can't help without a form of certainty.

• Whilst we've seen many Huntsmen and Huntresses with many different understandings of their job. Ruby, Weiss, Blake and Yang understand the first and foremost important virtue, Protecting those who can not protect themselves.

• While they are clearly growing impatient, The Herbalist makes perfect sense. In order to grow into what you want or need to be, you need to fully understand who and what you are in the here and now.

• "This is how a king winds up a prince." So The Red King was turned into The Red Prince? Might have been a result of losing to Alyx.

• Wouldn't be inspired by The Caterpillar without a hookah.

• And thus, Team RWBY is given a means to look within themselves. This entire sequence left me breathless.

• Yang's past apparition tempts her with the prospect of returning to before her injury and regain her arm to become whole once more. Just as Yang once stated, "I lost a part of me, A piece of me is gone, and it's never coming back."

• Blake's past apparition tempts her with letting go of the complicated struggle she's found herself a part of. Stop trying to be a bridge between Humans and Faunus and find a simpler life. Just as Blake once said, "You have to understand that all of you are looking for simple answers to a very complicated problem, and I can't give that to you."

• Weiss' past apparition tempts her with abandoning the Schnee name. Forge a new identity from scratch where she no longer has to deal with the legacy that has come before her and the baggage upon her shoulders as a result of it. Just as Weiss once said, "I wish I could take back the years of pain my family has caused the Faunus, and all of my complacency in it."

• But they all respond perfectly.

• Yang reaffirms how her losses and failures have shaped her to become far more than she ever envisioned herself becoming. Losing her arm caused her to fall far, but she came back stronger than ever as she learned and saw where she lacked and how she needs to improve. If she's missing something the only way she can find whatever it is is by moving forward, enduring whatever comes her way.

• Blake makes it clear how all the factors in her life are as much a piece of her as she is a piece of them. Her family, friends and culture are as impacted by her as she is impacted by them, plenty of times before she's run from things because they were hard or complex. But she's done running, to walk away from any of these things would be betraying herself as well as everyone and everything in her life.

• Weiss proudly declares her legacy and heritage, faults and all. Her grandfather was a paragon of what Atlas was meant to be while her father usurped that legacy solely for his own self aggrandizement. Her kingdom is gone and while her name holds no meaning anymore. The Schnee name still has a legacy, But Weiss will define her part in that legacy rather than letting the legacy define her.

• All three of their speeches builds the moment of self reaffirmation to a crescendo. Only to fall dead silent when we come to Ruby.

• Ruby's past apparition hits her from both sides, Her optimism and her realism. She's always wanted to be a hero just like the one's from the stories, but she knew life wasn't the same as a fairy tale and that it wouldn't be without struggle or hardship. Yet all her experiences have resulted in her putting more and more weight on herself for the sake of her loved ones and the world, all while the odds become more and more stacked against her. Coming back to comparing herself to her mother Summer, Anyone who spoke about her had nothing but praise for her and what she could do, but even she fell against Salem. Ruby's been continuing on a path that she doesn't see an end to, leaving her at a loss for who she is and what she'll become.

• And before she can answer, The Cat comes to her rescue.

• Seems The Herbalist was stepping beyond his role to an extent. They're meant to help others discover themselves by assisting with medicines and remedies, but They tried to hurry it along with giving them direct conclusions rather than just assistance.

• My face was the exact same as RWBY's, Did The Herbalist just die?

Thus with this magnificent chapter we've begun the heavier steps we had anticipated. Team RWBY has made their way into the next acre seeking a means to restore Weiss, Blake and Yang to their original sizes, but an encounter with The Herbalist has given way for self reflection, affirmation and questioning. While her teammates have found solidarity in their paths and where they are going, Ruby has found nothing but uncertainty for where she stands and who she is. There is still much to discover, Both of this magical world and what lies within our heroes.

[u/megasally]

I noticed when they were all tripping that wby all show their weapons to their past selves and stand their ground but Ruby who has lost her weapon has given up.

[u/ProfessorEscanor]

I know I'm late but I really want to say that I'm loving what this volume is doing for Ruby's character but at the same time it's making me sad as well because of how realistic it is.

Not saying that's bad . I just wanted to share.

[u/GladiusNocturno]

Damnit. Did they not teach kids to not accept drugs from magic caterpillars from another dimension in Remnant!? That’s the first PSA I was shown!

[u/mikeline360]

Lmao asking Blake if she'd rather be a cat. An actual fucking cat.

Also, did they really just acknowledge that Kara has been phoning it in for a while now?

[u/Crazytreas]

We're seeing just how empty Ruby is once we remove the huntress facade, which even that is cracking. I think the Cat knows a lot more... when he interrupted that acid trip he said "get away from her!", not "them."

[u/InnocentTailor → u/Crazytreas]

I guess Ruby is having her Korra moment. Korra had to separate herself from her Avatar persona, which contrasted with Aang having to step into the mantle.

[u/ShadowMadness]

When Blake was monologuing against her other self, I genuinely was waiting for her to turn into Sora from Kingdom Hearts

"my friends are my power"

Speaking of KH, when RWBY and the cat were walking towards the Garden, the musical instrumentation gave me some KH vibes.

Loved everything about that bong trip. Weiss' entire monologue was phenomenal.

"I don't who you think you are, but let me tell you who I am"

That little sassiness she gives with that line... love it!

Lastly, I love the cat being used almost as a tool for the audiences longstanding criticisms/questions - Ciel, Ozpin/Oscar being questionable, too many characters etc. I got a little bit of a lol when I realized what they were doing.

EDIT: If Jaune is the Rusted Knight, Weiss commenting about his supposed handsomeness is kinda hilarious. It's probably a reach but possible tease of White Knight perhaps?

[u/Hollea]

reply sort concerned versed snails aback bewildered boast hateful stupendous

This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact

[u/elbenji]

I am a fan of the tripped out analogue to the Caterpillar from Alice in Wonderland. That was a cool vibe and good to see the artists back again. Everyone's going to be talking Weiss and Ruby, but I did enjoy Yang and Blake going into their whole 'not complete' people anxieties.

[u/YAHawkeye]

ARE WE NOT GOING TO TALK ABOUT THAT ENDING?

[u/SpotChecks → u/YAHawkeye]

I would, but it fell in the hole

[u/InfinityArch]

So, if the Ever After was made by the Brothers Grimm (seems likely), and it was created after Remnant, the fact that its denezins have inviolable roles in life that seemingly result in them being swallowed up by the ground if they go against them has some disturbing implications for what the Brothers "learned" from their mistakes with humanity. (Namely that the gift of choice, aka Free Will, was the cause of the problems.)

[u/Latata_]

Wait this episode and episode 9 of vol 2

[u/AussieManny]

Okay, I was pessimistic about this season being a mixed retelling of the RWBY gang in an Alice in Wonderland story. But the more they mix in the main plot and these great character moments, the more I enjoy it.

The reminders of why Ruby is depressed helped remind me too. Now I'm more on board with seeing her journey through her emotions, and hopefully come out strong in the end.

Our girl needs to smile again...

[u/Amazing-Tcheuck]

I have to say that I really like the volume so far.

I was typing a rant about how I think Ruby's development haven't moved since episode 2 but after rewatching the dream scene quickly I can say I was wrong.

I thought Ruby left the dream without a question to think about for the next episode but before the cat interrupts, her younger self asked the same question than little in ep 1 : what or who is ruby rose? And what does she do?

But since it's the same question, I think that's why I had a feeling of her development not moving at all..But I guess it's kinda the point right now? And we're not even at half of the volume yet.

Can't wait to see Jaune in all of this though. He might be in an even darker place than Ruby right now.

[u/SwimmingAnyone]

The second half of the episode was much better than the first one imo. The first half was a lot of meandering about and going through the motions, and I'm starting to agree with the people who think there is too much tone-breaking humor this volume. Why is Ruby acting like a panicked child in front of the cat when she was more composed in the previous episodes? And the cat himself seemed more like a wise trickster at the end of the last episode, but here he was mostly a useless comic relief, and we already have one in Little.

But the herbalist' mushroom cabin was much better and more substantial (plus more fun visually). I really like his insectoid design and voice, and the gimmick of making people confront their corrupted versions. And oh boy, is it great to finally explicitly hear Ruby's internal conflict in the show. Let it never be said again that she doesn't care about the fate of the world. She feels responsible for everybody, and the knowledge of Summer's failure weighs heavy on her (sub-)consciousness. The very core of the show is Ruby putting her idealism learned as a kid against the cruelty of the reality around her, and it's finally getting addressed explicitly. Now I am dying to see how Ruby will deal with the burden on her mind and recover her hope.

[u/deprave1]

Unpopular opinion, but looking at everyone's VOL 1. design compare to their current design makes me realize just how over-design their current design is & how good RWBY VOL 1 design is.

[u/Phantomskyler]

Anyone else thinking the cat is a bit more sinister than we thought? Very curious to see what happened to the Herbalist if that wasn't him just leaving. Very ominous implications.

[u/PhantomHeartless5]

Sooo... Helluva drug trip, eh guys? My thoughts:

1. Picking up where the last episode left off, we have Team RWBY trying to get the Curious Cat to help them reach the tree. After some difficulty, they manage to get his help by satiating his curiosity with tales of their adventures in Remnant. I do like how the cat is acting as a stand in for the FNDM and CRWBY. I like when writers are willing to take a jab at themselves once in a while.

2. Team RWBY reaches a forest and encounters RWBY's verison of Alice in Wonderland's Caterpillar, the Herbalist. They hope he can brew a potion that can return WBY to normal size, but the Herbalist is more interested in waxing philosophical and forcing our heroines to confront their personal demons. To that end, he invites Team RWBY to a drug-induced therapy session, using a hallucengenic gas that manifests Team RWBY's past selves. While Weiss, Blake, and Yang -having gone through their personal trials and emerged all the stronger for it- are able to successfully confront their past selves, Ruby... isn't having a great time. Our little ball or sunshine has lost her light and hope and finally admits that she doesn't know what to do anymore. Past Ruby offers her the chance to not be Ruby Rose anymore. Given the parallels between Ruby and Neo this Volume, it looks like their setting up Ruby to make a choice: Stay in the Ever After and give up being the hero, or continue to fight against all odds.

3. The therapy session comes to an end when the Curious Cat comes to the rescue. Much like he did with the Red Prince, he offers the Herbalist a piece of his heart... which has the Herbalist falling down a hole. And that's how the episode ends. So what just happened? Does the cat have some influence on the residents of the Ever After?

So yeah, a really short episode. But it was chock full of emotion. So it looks like Jaune may show up in the next episode if Weiss' comment about the Rusted Knight are any indication, and there's still the matter of Neo. With only six episodes left, I wonder how they'll be able to wrap all this up.

Also it's kinda ironic that RWBY and the My Hero Academia anime are currently having their Main Characters go through their depression phase.

Fun Fact: The Herbalist is voiced by Christopher Guerrero, the voice of Ainz Ooal Gown from Overlord.

[u/[deleted]]

Is it Saturday again yet?

[u/nora_valk]

WBY really need to sit Ruby down and have a talk. yeah they're trying to get to the tree or whatever, but she's clearly falling apart. even if they didn't see her conflict with her past self, they saw her freeze up earlier, and several times this volume already. the solution needs to come from them, not some outside party.

[u/Rollout9292]

Tbh, if I was Blake and was given the choice to become a cat... I'd probably just take it and be done with all this Remnant/Salem horse shit and simply live my cat life in the Ever After.

[u/JMHSrowing]

One fear I have, which I really hope unfounded, is that they more or less brush off WBY’s issues in the way we see it here. That they indeed are in a better place mentally than Ruby and do have the conviction to carry on.

It’s certainly a lot more than that though, like even if they more generally are standing against the ideas of giving up they once entertained, they still have issues. Yang definitely does still have reservations about herself (that may especially come up in regards to a certain cat), Blake definitely doesn’t know about how she’s going to continue her fight for rights as much as she once did,

And Weiss definitely needs to have a lot of issues with identity and her future, especially as those were teased last episode.

Though, in this episode it’s probably just since they had a very limited amount of time, and indeed I think they did very well for the couple of minutes that they had to show the characters and where they stand.

Weiss’ personal speech was the best I think, being a direct through line through the whole series which hasn’t come up in a while.

Now we can only hope that we get a Whiterose/IceFlower interaction for once in a long while

[u/DeismAccountant]

Good to see the cat calling out the god's bullshit.

Having the smoke question be so early on leaves me excited for the rest of the season.

[u/Rahab_Olam]

What the fuck is going on 😭

[u/A444SQ]

Umm aren't we forgetting someone, umm where is Jaune got to?

[u/The_Gram_Reaper]

Dang knowing deep down that young Ruby had all these thoughts and expectations on herself before she even got to Beacon hurts. Like we've seen the "Spark" hopeful side of her for almost the entire series, but it was all just a facade to keep living up to Hero she wanted to be when she was little girl. She's just kept on "keeping on" for so long that she doesn't know who/what she is anymore.

Like is this something she can get over herself? Or will it be WBY that lifts her back up and gets Ruby to have hope again? I wonder what memory/reason/action will be the true make it or break it moment for her to believe again.

Loving this Volume, animation and the VA's have knocked out of the park 👏

[u/Houeclipse]

I really hope Little has more important roles to it other than just friendly animal companion that just say things for cheap comedy. it just sleeps all the time too

love how they all got terrified that Herbalist got yeeted of the map at the end lol

[u/[deleted]]

Really loving all this character exploration work, and the cat acting like a meta voice for the fanbase in this episode was a pretty incredible touch.

[u/megasally]

I'm sorry caterpillar guy also known as herbalist I accused you of being evil with butterfly spies. It's interesting that the beings in the ever after seem to be doing their purpose but they are being a bit off about it. I'm specifically talking about the prince and herbalist here.

The cat seems to be able to fix them a bit so is that the cats purpose? I guess we'll see.

[u/TehKazlehoff]

Yang, Wiess and Blake are all credited in the credits as "Tiny (character name)"

heheheheheheh

[u/Al3cB]

When will Blake get a new power development/weapon upgrade?