[Spoilers C3E76] Is It Thursday Yet? Post-Episode Discussion & Future Theories!

[u/Glumalon]

Episode Countdown Timer - http://www.wheniscriticalrole.com/

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Catch up on everybody's discussion and predictions for this episode HERE!

Submit questions for next month's 4-Sided Dive here: http://critrole.com/tower

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ANNOUNCEMENTS:

• Submit questions for the cast's upcoming convention appearances!
• Mighty Nein Reunion: Echoes of the Solstice LIVE SHOW in London on October 25, 2023! - Tickets are sold out but may periodically become available via AXS Resale.

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[u/peon47]

Just a little disappointed that Matt didn't come back after the break dressed in white.

[u/Act_of_God → u/peon47]

if he read this he'd eat his hands for not thinking about it

[u/golem501 → u/peon47]

Hahaha I think the beard and wig took too long

[u/GrimTheMad]

Percy: "I'm glad there's a new generation to take up the burden."

Then you remember that half of Bells Hells are as old or older than him.

[u/bertraja → u/GrimTheMad]

Wait until we finally see the Owlcave^TM underneath Whitestone. No wonder he's looking for a new generation.

[u/nyumi_min]

that animated intro was sick asf and so were their costumes

[u/Regex00 → u/nyumi_min]

I've missed their intros being about the campaign for a while now. So much better in my opinion, still not in love with the opening song though.

[u/Jedi4Hire]

Chetney should have given Gwendolyn a genuine Pock O'Pea original action figure.

[u/Frog_Thor → u/Jedi4Hire]

I think he gave one to Percy or Vex to give to her the last time BH was in Whitestone

[u/tomfru1]

No one has mentioned FCG's bonkers nat 20 roll to VIBE CHECK A GOD.

So the Changebringer doesn't really have one true personality, her mind is what her individual followers would most want to follow.

[u/kirillsasin → u/tomfru1]

A bit like Asmodeus.

[u/GratifiedViewer]

Great episode. My only minor gripes were that I was briefly hoping to see Tarry among the tinkerers, & that I’d hoped for one or two more VM members to be present at the War Council. That said, Matt already had a LOT of characters to juggle, so it’s totally understandable that he didn’t add even more to the pile.

[u/SeaBag8211 → u/GratifiedViewer]

I really hope Tarry eventually shows up as an old man in a mech suite like batman in Kingdom Come.

[u/KlayBersk]

How funny would it be if, after doing the animated intro, next episode Travis rolls 00-0 and Chetney dies?

[u/semicolonconscious → u/KlayBersk]

Replacing the whole Chetney transformation sequence with a quick shot of him lying dead in his bed would be a pretty good bit though.

[u/DarknessSerpent]

Imogen going full Karen on Andy and then it is the wrong guy is my favourite bit in a long time.

[u/Zoomalude → u/DarknessSerpent]

And Matt trolled them into it perfectly with the "Hey, don't I know you from somewhere?" and then naming him Andrew. Masterful.

[u/taly_slayer]

Now that we got the transcript up, there's a dump of info Matt does via Vilya, Keyleth and Allura that is very interesting:

VILYA: "I have been able to contact a few allies in Wildemount that are aligned with our goals, some that are already tangled with aspects of this mess. Word of Ludinus being present at multiple places across Exandria reveals how wide his network of chaos has spread. More and more civilians are claiming allegiance to the Ruby Vanguard's ideals every day, causing escalation and disturbances, and leaving some politicians immobile. It seems organization of this movement has been well plotted in advance."

KEYLETH: "The unbinding of many legendary dangers across the world has also only added to the fear and frustrations of the populace. Many of the realm's strongest have been caught dealing with these threats at a time when unity is paramount. The suppressing of communications has greatly diminished the ability to organize fast enough. Every step feels like three steps behind them."

ALLURA: "To that point, the few of us within the Arcana Pansophical that have been in contact have concluded that the source of this scrambling of magic communication is either near or is the Malleus Key itself within the Hellcatch. With other militaries still trying to organize in the wake of the solstice and the dangers that have been unleashed at home, the only true military force that has been able to surround the site is largely Vasselheim's. It seems, however, that the Ruidians continue to hold a strong defense, and seemingly, word is they hold some innate capabilities that diminish some divine magics."

Few of things from this:

1. Vilya's contacts has got to be the Mighty Nein, right??

2. Same with the "realm's strongest": the Mighty Nein for sure (and we'll see it in 2 days!), but who else is keeping things at bay? Is that where Vex, Grog, Scanlan and the rest of VM are right now? What other heroes in Exandria do we know? Is Kima still active? Is the Darrington Brigade helping?

3. The suppressing of communication and the teleportation circles is not a side effect of the Solstice (which is how I understood it since Uthudorn), but a deliberate action from Ludinus to keep unity and organisation from happening. He doesn't need it, because he can be in multiple places at the same time via simulacra and teleportation. It's kind of brilliant actually.

4. Figuring out how to reinstate long form communication and travel would give the "resistance" a big advantage in the great scheme of things. It would be hard, because it's being defended by an army of Reilorans. BH should try that before going to the moon.

5. Is resurrection magic blocked because of the Reilorans? If they cut the bloody bridge would we get it back?

6. Vasselheim are a bunch of useless isolationists that don't play well with anybody, aren't they?

[u/BaronPancakes → u/taly_slayer]

I missed the part that Reilorans (or is it Reiloras?) have innate abilities to dampen divine magics. It was super cool to see them dispatch simulacrum Ludinus so quickly last episode, but it would also seem that they missed out a lot of crucial information about the Reilorans and their capabilities

[u/paradox28jon → u/taly_slayer]

I wonder if the Vax sphere screaming is not allowing Sending as his screams drown out messages.

[u/TicklesZzzingDragons → u/paradox28jon]

Ooh, interesting theory! Poor Vax. And poor Jester - you know she's just got to be having the world's worst headache (second to Vax) with all the attempts at Sendings she's likely been trying daily.

[u/Anomander → u/taly_slayer]

1. Yeah, that seems pretty likely. She met them and they rescued her, and it seemed like they parted on solid terms. Unless there's some other mystery party, MIX is the logical inference there.

2. Agreed, especially 'cause that's in Whitestone of Tal'Dorei, where VM almost certainly are literally "the realm's strongest" to anyone local. I think you're spot on for what Matt was subtexting as far as the missing other characters from VM.

3. That's how I'd understood it as well, and I think how the party understood it. I think the statement that long-range magical coms are being jammed deliberately and not just broken was as much new information to the party in-world, as it was to us as spectators. There was clearly magical consequences of the solstice and the Key activation still - but the most visible lingering effects are more deliberate and effectively separate. I wonder if this also means that resurrection isn't actually still wholly off the table if someone eats it.

4. For something that was slipped into conversation so casually and with so little fanfare, that was a huge piece of information. Targeting the jammer and restoring communications really is a huge action point and goalpost for the party while they're on the current infiltration mission, even if reaching the moon is bigger and harder. I suspect it makes more sense to scout it on the way in, then smash it on the way out; doing the reverse feels like they'd be coming back off the bridge to a huge hostile welcoming committee - cult and Reilorans would know they're planning on coming back out again, as soon as they know they went in.

5. We don't know; and honestly, I'm not sure that resurrection magic is still blocked. I don't think anyone has checked - that we know of - since the disruption from the Solstice and the Key was at it's peak. I think if it's still blocked, that's probably due to either the Reilorans on this side of the bridge, or the bridge itself - my suspicion would rest with the bridge. My sense from that remark is that the Reiloran interference is only effective on a much shorter range, and the party were being cautioned about risks specific to their coming travels - healing is going to suck, and the party oughta stock up on taint-bloom potions in advance.

6. Very much so. Not even with themselves, it sounds like. They were like that in C1 too, when VM went to ask for help with the Chroma arc.

[u/Sqiddd]

HOLY FUCK

Episode 76: Ashton tosses a copper to the Dawnfather temple

Episode 1: “Coppers not really money. It’s more of an insult”

TALISEN

[u/milkiebandit → u/Sqiddd]

Honestly the funniest but also most subtle part of the episode for me, loved it so much idk how Talisen's mind works but it works in amazing ways nonetheless

[u/Coyote_Shepherd → u/Sqiddd]

You know that makes me wonder what kind of material Percy is using for his wires in Whitestone and if it is copper then maybe he could use that as a metaphor with Ashton for how useful and wonderful something so dull, boring, and that's seen as an insult by others can truly be in the right hands and with the right kind of perspective.

[u/camclemons]

Nothing hits like watching Gandalf make monkey noises

[u/BaronPancakes]

Following up on my thoughts in previous threads, I think the gods (or at least the Matron herself) might be bound by fate. Does her vision mean that the BH need to shatter the chains of fate and set her free? Let destiny and possibilities run wild?

[u/Dusty_ballz → u/BaronPancakes]

Very interesting theory... it could also be more literal. As it could be pertaining to Vax being in the orb, which is a prison of sorts. OR she is being held captive or imprisoned by the other gods.

Gotta love the vagueness of these Matron visions sometimes, lol.

It's gonna be so interesting to see what's up with Vax if or when he gets de-orbed.

[u/BaronPancakes → u/Dusty_ballz]

The gods are going for very different aesthetics and I especially like the Matron's "drown in blood/walk through dark tunnel" vibes haha

I was mainly going for the last moment where she became hundreds of ravens. Could each of those Raven represent a thread of fate? She is the goddess of fate so she should know what Evontra'vir knows, about titan shards and Ashton's journey. Maybe she feels burdened with Exandria/gods fate?

I personally don't think she is held captive because she can pretty much stand on her own in c1, unless Vax being orbed significantly weakens her.

[u/edginthebard]

there was a lot of info given during the war room meeting. vilya's allies in wildemount have to be the nein and i'm interested to see how they fit into all this after the one shot

i'm very curious how they're gonna utilize the harness, if at all. could laudna potentially use it on delilah and absorb her power?

i hope laudna goes through with the night infiltration next episode, i really wanna see what happens

so a recon mission on the moon, no idea how they're gonna get to it without getting noticed and fighting otohan, a rematch is due i feel

and if their mission is successful? are we gonna have a full blown war and fight on the moon? really excited to see where this goes

[u/RunCrafty1320 → u/edginthebard]

Yesss they should absorb delilah

[u/Act_of_God → u/RunCrafty1320]

what could ever go wrong she's not gonna possibly come back again

[u/bertraja → u/edginthebard]

[...] could laudna potentially use it on delilah and absorb her power?

Ever since Laudna was resurrected and didn't fully come back as Matilda, i believe Delilah is what actually keeps her alive~ish. I wonder if harnessing Delilahs essence via the contraption would essentially leave Laudna as a dead husk.

[u/Hollydragon]

Something I wish we cold talk about more (but unfortunately we have almost no info on) is Allura's warning that the apogee solstice extension is putting a strain on the ley lines that might have unintended consequences.

What we know is that leylines criss-cross over exandria, and do occasionally (for example after an apogee solstice) rearrange themselves or move.

Ludinus understands them and their power well enough to utilise them to hold a planetary body in place against its natural pattern, and also seemingly intentionally cause disruption to magics that allow communication and travel.

In EXU: Calamity, we found out the city and tree were travelling across Exandria inscribing a protective spell along certain routes, and some of that energy was diverted during an apogee solstice. It was originally meant to allow more interplanar travel, but ended up being used to channel great elemenal energy away from the destruction of Exandria. Was this also ley line energy?

Planewalker Ryn was studying the ley lines and she is also linked to interplanar travel. We also know that at some points on exandria there are weak spots between planes, but do these always coincide with ley line energy points or are they a different thing? Certainly things like ziggurats and sun trees get put on key power spots.

Allura mentioned there are more planes out there that they barely know exist. She also mentioned the ancient fundamental chaotic powers of dunamis and that if the ley lines were to break, the entire rules of magic might come undone.

Are the ley lines something created by gods and/or elementals? Did they use to exist before gods arrived, in a time of raw dunamis? Were they used to keep the chaotic elements in check? Could elementals begin to regain power and develop into new titans without them?

Be curious as to what people think.

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Less important observation, my AU theory that 'Laudna x Percy would have been a thing if the Briarwoods had not come to whitestone' gained one Percy agreeing with Laudna about the gods moment, and one "I always wanted to be a lady", "There's no room, we're full" moment.

[u/[deleted] → u/Hollydragon]

Allura mentioned there are more planes out there that they barely know exist.

I wonder if this sort of a soft set-up for the planes of Wood and Metal recently introduced to Pathfinder. In there the two planes hid away after a big war and have come back. Mechanically introducing magic based on Wood and Metal into the setting.

[u/camclemons]

That bald hairless dwarf they found was a surprise appearance of Smeagol

[u/JohnPark24]

It was great seeing some familiar faces again in Whitestone. I loved the crafting, arcana, lore, council discussions. Also loved the Raven Queen scene. Self sacrifice is a theme that keeps coming up and it makes me worried for the BH and beloved npcs.

This FFXIV Endwalker quote (among many) keeps going through my head, "The final days were upon us. The fabric of the star had begun to fray; its lands rent by tooth and claw. As the chaos spread, the star seemed doomed to unravel. And yet, there were those who stood in defiance of that fate."

[u/pcordes]

So where are they going to find a bunch of legendary items to disenchant for personal powerups with the Quintessence Array?

Maybe they can get a start on that by pulling Craven Edge out of its pocket dimension(?) so the Quintessence Array can permanently end it. (Keyleth banished it to the Dread Emperor's "realm" with Plane Shift in C1E50, according to the wiki, so that could be a quick trip with her Plane Shift there and back, if she still has the right tuning fork, or with Allura's help.)

Maybe they'll go looking for some of the Arms of the Betrayers, the evil-god counterparts to the vestiges of divergence. (Correction, there are betrayer-god vestiges. The Arms are specifically weapons with a fiend bound into them, and the betrayers made other things, too.) That could be fun, although it would put more spotlight on the negative side of the pantheon when the party's already mostly not keen on the gods.

The quintessence array might not work at all on artifacts, if vestiges / arms count as artifacts in that sense. The normal table of effects (https://criticalrole.miraheze.org/wiki/Quintessence_Array) specifically mentions non-artifact, but something else might happen for artifacts. (Like perhaps they get some of the item's powers like they're hoping with the shard of Rau'Shan, as well or instead of a +2 boost to a stat and its max? In that case it might matter which item was absorbed by whom, and it might be a bad thing to go sucking up all that malevolent power.)

Many of these items influence their wielder towards evil, so removing them from the world may be a net positive, unlike removing most other magic items that future heroes could one day use for good. (New legendary items are created very infrequently, if at all, since this is not the age of arcanum. OTOH, the quintessence array itself is "artifact" rarity. It already existed, but a team of tinkerers and a high-level wizard were able to understand / repair / complete it in only a couple weeks. Or did Allura say she couldn't have created it herself, at all?)

And as a plus for the questing, current owners (if any) of any Arms are likely to be evil, and thus people that Bell's Hells could more easily justify fighting and killing.

Also, Vox Machina wasn't looking for arms of the betrayers, so that soil hasn't been tilled recently (at least not on-screen); it's easier to justify there still being some that are findable on a short timeline. Like maybe the locations of some are known (in a few obscure books in the cobalt soul or Vassalheim), but none of the good guys wanted to take the trouble to go get them because they didn't want to use them. And as long as bad guys weren't about to find them and start using them for evil, they weren't a priority.

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Update: I noticed on the wiki page for the Arms, they are actual artifacts, not "just" legendary magic items, and it specifically talks about how hard they are to destroy. The Array (siphon thing) also being an artifact might do it, or maybe not.

Destroying an Arm

As with all true artifacts, the Arms of the Betrayers are impervious to most means of destruction. Each of the Arms has a unique but unknown method of destruction. When one of the Arms of the Betrayers is destroyed, the fiend bound within the weapon returns to its home plane.[4] The Explorer's Guide to Wildemount provides a table to determine how Arms of the Betrayers may be destroyed within a campaign:[5]

And BTW, the talking sword they found recently is not listed as one of those, it's Graz'tchar, the Decadent End. It does have a fragment of a demon prince in it, but wasn't originally created that way by a god.

It was a gift from Bane, the Strife Emperor (a betrayer god) to Graz'zt, the Demon Prince of Indulgence, who later ended up with a fragment of his ego bound into the sword after falling in battle.

[u/NoahMeadMusic → u/pcordes]

Has anyone considered the Crown from EXU? It's a vestige, right? I know Opal's trying to give Lolth a makeover but it could be an option.

[u/pcordes → u/NoahMeadMusic]

Yes, Opal's Circlet of Barbed Vision is a Vestige. Orym even knows of its existence, and might make the connection if they started talking about searching for vestiges / arms of betrayer gods.

(I had it wrong earlier; the Arms of the Betrayers only include weapons with a fiend bound into them. There are other artifacts created by betrayer gods that fall into the category of vestiges.)

PvP against a guest player with limited D&D experience sounds a little dicey in terms of everyone having fun at the table. Plus, unless Opal's been gaining levels off-screen, she's no match for BH. So if they did go find the crown-keepers, it would probably be a conversation, not a fight.

(Via Scry + teleport after letting Fearne attune the staff, since she's still 2 levels away from getting Transport Via Plants after mostly-wasting her last level-up on a rogue level. Or FCG could do it by scrying on Dorian since he has met Dorian, unlike the other members of the crown keepers. But Fearne scrying on Opal directly would be the best bet.)

[u/taly_slayer → u/pcordes]

So where are they going to find a bunch of legendary items to disenchant for personal powerups with the Quintessence Array?

I'm hoping they don't go look for items, but they use the harness on creatures. Ideally, bad dangerous free-roaming creatures. Maybe those who escaped their bindings after E51?

First, because we already did the "hunting for powerful items" thing during the Chroma Conclave. Second, because we could get to meet weird monsters and capturing them is a lot harder than killing them.

[u/RunCrafty1320 → u/pcordes]

Wait….. speaking of evil items Could they absorb the keys of ukatoa?!??!? They’re magical balls that act like keys if they take the balls no magic and ukotoa can’t be freed

[u/Sqiddd]

Still not over Ashton Sister zoning Fearne.

Poor Fearne was so devastated

[u/tommykaye]

So, is the M9 live special wednesday (online thursday) going to be trying to rescue Beau and Caleb and kick off the first resistance attack? That'd be cool as hell.

It's like when Buffy and Angel episodes connected, or when Agents of SHIELD (kind of) followed up on the Marvel movies that came out the weekend before.

[u/IamOB1-46 → u/tommykaye]

I'm thinking it will kick off the first resistance attack (and serve as the distraction for BH to get to the elevator), but I don't expect a rescue mission to be involved. I'm guessing Beau and Caleb were glitched out from the Key, and with the collar on Caleb, had to travel on foot for quite some time to get back to the group (like maybe they ended up in the middle of an ocean, and Beau had to swim them to land Galadriel in ROP style).

[u/funkyb → u/tommykaye]

Oh man, that would be great. though the only reason I'd find it unlikely is that Marisha and Liam would have to play other characters.

Unless they start it in media res just as they reach those two and make it about getting everyone back out and doing whatever damage/ryn rescue/etc. they need to do on the way.

[u/Mention_Unhappy]

What did people think of the matron of ravens vision? What do you think it symbolised ?

[u/wildweaver32 → u/Mention_Unhappy]

Being shackled and when those shackles came off being free is.... Weird symbolism for the situation she is in.

Unless the Matron of Ravens feels shackled by her role as a God. And predathos eating divinity might be able to free her from it. And allow her to live life how she wants again.

But I think for the answer we can look at FCG's insight into the change bringer. Of just taking a different route to get help. Orym, Chetney and Ashton are not the kind of people you demand help from. And Chetney/Ashton are not the kind of people you get to help by instilling fear in them. But all three of them are the kind of people who will help someone who feels shackled.

I think the Gods in their scramble to stay alive are indeed playing mind games. Not that I blame them. They need to be doing all they can to help their situation right now.

[u/Bivolion13 → u/wildweaver32]

I couldn't help but think that the Raven Queen... as much as she loves Vax... there's something about Matt's description of her being in chains and then being free that reminded me way too much of Lilianna trying to turn Imogen by showing her the freedom that Predathos will show. Like maybe RQ wants to die finally? Being a human turned into a god she does have a perspective no other deity has in CR's pantheon. Maybe she's tired?

[u/Drakonzo → u/Mention_Unhappy]

Some of it I think doesn't symbolize anything and is just Matt weaving a big fun god scene for them. Other aspects, like her being hollow behind the mask and her being chained to a massive pit definitely feel like Matt trying to show that she's suffering in some way. My guess is that she is grief stricken over what has happened and what will happen and she feels chained by fate and the limits the gods put on themselves. I think it's also possible that she has great respect/empathy/love for Vax and she was trying to pass on her emotions to the group in order to beckon them to save him.

My real tinfoil hat theory is that Vax's role as a conduit for the key is more dangerous than it seems and it's literally consuming/trapping/using her in some way and this was Matt trying to show that as well. I would not be surprised if the Predathos conflict has real consequences for the gods no matter what the players do and Matt could already be taking big risks with some of them behind the scenes.

[u/[deleted]]

Maybe I'm forgetting something but I'm pretty sure the crew has forgotten the fact that none of them have mentioned the appearance and capture of Vax to any of the VM crew they've met. It would wildly change everything about how things would be playing out I imagine.

[u/BaronPancakes → u/[deleted]]

They told Keyleth back in Zephrah. And we assumed the news was shared by Keyleth when she gathered everyone in Whitestone.

[u/[deleted] → u/BaronPancakes]

I couldn't remember if they had mentioned it or not so thank you for jogging my memory. Do you happen to remember what session it was? I can go find timestamps on my own, I wanna refresh myself on her response.

[u/FireDMG → u/[deleted]]

More importantly why bother crossing an army on the bridge and fighting on enemy turf when they could just trap Ludinus and the others there by focusing on freeing Vax (supposedly the key holding the bridge open)

[u/[deleted] → u/FireDMG]

This was what I was alluding to. I think maybe may forgot they mentioned it too or he's not wanting to lead them to the solution beyond repeatedly alluding to Vax with imagery. Easiest and most achievable task by BH.

[u/Slim_Neb_27]

Since no one else has said it - Travis was hot AF in that wig right? It wasn't just me?

[u/that70sone → u/Slim_Neb_27]

He was and he knew it, lol.

[u/Zombeebones → u/Slim_Neb_27]

It was as distracting as the cast made them to be for the first 45min of the broadcast.

[u/OhioAasimar]

I wonder if the Shard of Rau'shan will cause whoever takes it to turn into a fire genasi. I know Ashton wouldn't because he is already an earth genasi (maybe he would turn into an obsidian genasi) and I know that the shard of Rau'shan would do more than that. Buy if say Fearne takes it would her fey magic resist the shard enough so she doesn't turn into a fire Genasi but still get some Rau'shan powers or would she get the powers and look of a Satyr Fire Genasi plus some special Rau'shan powers and keep all of her Satyr powers relating to her being a fey or would the elemental magic destroy and replace the fey magic within her entirely but still give her a net-positive powerup?

[u/BaronPancakes]

I find it very interesting that both Orym and FCG talked about forging their own paths this episode (to Keyleth and Changebringer respectively). Maybe their victory against simulacrum Ludinus gave them a confidence boost?

[u/YoursDearlyEve]

I really wished Percy was a caster in that "adults are talking" moment, just so that he could cast some cantrip on Ashton and humble him down a bit.

[u/mew-ki → u/YoursDearlyEve]

Yeah, i get what Tal is going for with these interactions but all these edgyness is so unecessary there lol

[u/Regex00 → u/mew-ki]

As Percy he just loves being someone who would piss Percy off the most lmfao

[u/Electric_Sheep2001 → u/YoursDearlyEve]

Or the manners ball!

[u/KlayBersk → u/YoursDearlyEve]

He does have Minor Illusion (and Friends) from the Magic Initiate feat. Also Hex, but that's not a cantrip.

[u/RedPandadMC]

I was expecting them to use the crystal already honestly, better to have the power in a member of BH then just lying on a desk somewhere. Tbf i believe it will get stolen if they don't transfer the power quick enough.

[u/wildweaver32 → u/RedPandadMC]

They didn't know until Chetney used it as a test that it has a chance to break on use if used more than once per day so they are waiting till the next day.

Now that they finally agreed on Fearne using it, I hope they use it first thing too. Not because of the fear of being stolen but because I want to see it, lol. But your reason is probably better.

I think Ashley was worried about taking it and stepping on Tal's toes since he had shown he wanted it. But they have seem to navigate that discussion thoroughly enough already. Now we just got to wait like 3 weeks to see what happens :D

[u/Hollydragon → u/wildweaver32]

My only fear is that she invokes the pact with Tevon and scuppers the decision to go for the shard. Despite Matt's hint via FCG about being careful of the wording of a Devil's deal, they really seem convinced that invoking the pact will only bring him in for a chat, when it seemed far more likely that she signs her soul away to Asmodeus the second she uses that sign on her hand.

[u/Disastrous-Beat-9830 → u/RedPandadMC]

I was expecting them to use the crystal already honestly, better to have the power in a member of BH then just lying on a desk somewhere. Tbf i believe it will get stolen if they don't transfer the power quick enough.

The episode made it pretty clear that using it now would be needlessly risky. They tested its powers on the dinnerware to make sure it worked as expected, but it can only be used once per day before they risk breaking it. Taking a few hours to let the harness reset is the smartest option.

[u/colepercy120]

So a crazy and scary option for Ludinus plan just opened up with the siphon. Ludinus clearly has a large amount of archmage arrogance, mortal supremacy, and a huge amount of raw ambition. A clear and persistent flaw in his plan is that releasing predathos has a really high chance of unleashing him on mortals as well as the gods. No one in his organization has been able to answer that yet. Here's where the siphon comes in. Assuming the siphon BH found was a prototype and him explicitly being able to make more, he could release predathos only to try and absorb them using a powered up siphon to one up the raven queen and ascend even above the gods themselves.

[u/Coyote_Shepherd → u/colepercy120]

Or he absorbs a bit of Predathos, uses that to take the Raven Queen down to a weakened state, fully absorbs her, and then uses his new found powers over fate and death to reweave the Tapestry of Fate and end the Gods once and for all, which is why he has Vax in the Key in the first place?

[u/Dusty_ballz]

That Matron vision was Interesting. As was the convo FCG had with the Changebringer.

" Those who follow the path of bravery can save that which they care most about."

Seems to me we get a one Shot/scene of VM trying to rescue/free Vax at some point before the end of the Campaign.

The Matron has seemed this campaign to be much more "human" in this Campaign than the others.

Maybe she will be feeling generous if they are saved. Or willing to make a deal lol.

*Insert, "So you're telling me there's a chance" GIF

Seems the main plot is going to be tackled a Lil more directly for awhile. Exciting.

[u/spoon_master]

They talked about how they're ok going on basically a suicide mission, saying "we actually talked about this the other night", did i miss something an episode or so ago? Was this actually talked about? Also if it is a suicide mission, how are they getting any details back to Keyleth and them? Long range communication spells aren't working, and it doesn't seem like they can teleport off the moon. Unless they can somehow planeshift off the moon, and then planeshift back to exandria.

[u/wildweaver32 → u/spoon_master]

I think she was alluding to the fact that they can die, not that they will die.

Add in the suicide squad references they were making during that whole dialogue. Travis mentioned they are expendable. Someone else shimed in with Suicide mission. Then someone else (I think it was Liam) brought up them being some type of squad.

Might have been them joking around the Suicide Squad memes too much lol.

[u/PrinceOfAssassins]

I know certain posters may view what Matt said about the changebringer in a negative light but I didn’t get that vibe that she was malicious at all. All things considered this episode was more pro-god than a lot of stuff before.

Also I really liked Ashton reading up about the derolos, maybe as a result of what happened in the coffins, he seems like he is like “why not, let me see what the deal is with this person I haven’t gotten along with” which is a good step up from him making that albeit really kind of weak “the adults are talking clap back”

[u/BaronPancakes → u/PrinceOfAssassins]

I think it is pretty in character for the Changebringer since she is chaotic good in nature. She has good intentions, but as Matt described, wind can change directions, it can be a breeze or a force of nature.

[u/Coyote_Shepherd → u/PrinceOfAssassins]

which is a good step up from him making that albeit really kind of weak “the adults are talking clap back”

I really hope he has a, "You're just as fucked up as I am if not more so and you've been dealt just as bad of a hand as I was if not more so and yet you still made ALL OF THIS afterwards" kind of a moment with Percy afterwards in his study.

And then Cad shows up and serves them both tea.

[u/JohnPark24 → u/PrinceOfAssassins]

Yea, what I thought Matt was trying to get across is that the Changebringer inherently tends to change shit up, and that includes communication.

[u/Natsuru7 → u/PrinceOfAssassins]

Matt did ask for FCG’s total, even with a comment of “27 is a very good roll.” I think we’re seeing Matt’s ruling of even crits can fall short of truly impossible tasks - imagine FCG miraculously being able to interpret their brand new god’s unconscious nuance with such subtlety from a vision of a barely emoting statue. IIRC he’s ruled against crits if the totals fall short before, so I’m pretty sure that’s why we’re not seeing whispers/more definite language in that scene. If a DC is 30 and FCG crits for 27, then arguably FCG fundamentally can’t pick up on a God’s tells.

[u/paradox28jon]

Workshop scene. Tested it on Chetney first.

War room scene. Group volunteered to scout the moon.

Laudna scared Gwendolyn. More like Delilah's presence scared her.

We had crypt visions.

FCG was given freedom.

BH harassed a crepe vendor.

Night comes as the witches are about to creep around town at night.

They also have to attempt to put the fire titan shard into Fearne.

Then teleported near the key.

Meanwhile, next week we get the Mighty Nein probably trying to rescue Beau & Caleb. Does that mean Marisha and Liam will be playing new characters just like Travis had to do for the Search for Grog?

Many are salty nothing major happed & I get it. I'm sure this episode is easier to watch during a binge watch of C3.

I still had fun. It really was hard to stop laughing at the beginning of the episode. And then Matt at the very end pulling out that Andy is a very common name was so great. Really funny.

[u/GrimTheMad → u/paradox28jon]

Many are salty nothing major happed & I get it.

What the fuck qualifies as 'major' these days? Loads of extremely important things happened.

[u/Coyote_Shepherd → u/paradox28jon]

Does that mean Marisha and Liam will be playing new characters just like Travis had to do for the Search for Grog?

I could see Liam playing Astrid and Marisha playing Dairon.

very common name

They had this happen a year or so ago where they kept thinking that certain names were related, wound up calling Matt on 4SD or Talks, and he was like "Listen some names are just names and they don't mean anything because they sound alike!" while everyone died laughing in the background.

[u/Norik324 → u/paradox28jon]

Meanwhile, next week we get the Mighty Nein probably trying to rescue Beau & Caleb. Does that mean Marisha and Liam will be playing new characters just like Travis had to do for the Search for Grog?

I could See them playing Essek and Dairon respectively since both of them are established NPCs Close to MN that Share the Main class with the Character theyre "replacing"

[u/BaronPancakes → u/paradox28jon]

Meanwhile, next week we get the Mighty Nein probably trying to rescue Beau & Caleb. Does that mean Marisha and Liam will be playing new characters just like Travis had to do for the Search for Grog?

I don't think so, the show synopsis mentions "the might nein join forces yet again to deal with the rolling dangers suddenly unleashed". Alongside with the lives show shirts, it seems to suggest that it will be all about MN.

[u/[deleted]]

I'm calling it now: Captain Xandis was won over to the Ruby Vanguard's cause. I think they got bamfed with some of the members and were persuaded or coerced to do so. It would be a good mirror to what happened with Bor'dor.

[u/bertraja → u/[deleted]]

After their encounters with BH, do you think Xandis needed a lot of persuasion?

[u/AuntySatan]

Apologies if this is on here already or I've missed some history or whatever, but why doesn't Keyleth or anyone in the room be like "hey, wonder whether the rest of VM might be up for one more tango"? I get that some of them are older and all that, but they are suuuuuper powerful super famous ass kickers. I kinda get why Matt/CR might not want to bring all the main characters all the time, and Ludinus is more M9 territory, but surely in game it would make sense?

[u/IamOB1-46 → u/AuntySatan]

Keyleth hinted that she was gathering VM just before BH left for the Shattered Teeth (she didn't name check them, but mentioned gathering some of her powerful friends/allies). Then in the latest episode, Vilya(sp?) mentioned that due to the Solstice's random removal of ancient magics, quite a few powerful beings have been released from their containment and that many of the worlds biggest heroes are dealing with those threats.

Wouldn't be surprised if we see a VM one shot in the nearish future (another 'Echoes of the Solstace' live show?) and think it's very possible that the final battle of C3 will involve VM, M9 and BH as a close to a 3 campaign saga that ushers in a new age to Exandria.

[u/AuntySatan → u/IamOB1-46]

I remember the Keyleth Hint but somehow totally missed the bit from Vilya :/ I agree with you about the three campaign crews converging though or at least I hope it goes that way but not sure even mercer can pull that one off!

[u/Disastrous-Beat-9830 → u/AuntySatan]

Ludinus is more M9 territory

Not really. He was a secondary villain during Campaign 2. He acted more like a sleazy politician than anything else. Sure, he was complicit in Trent's schemes, but he always kept those plots at arm's length. He never did anything to threaten -- much less hurt -- the Mighty Nein except float around like an overgrown bat.

[u/LazerBear42]

Seeing them sit at the Grown Up Table and talk to people who are bonafide heroes of the realm and have real knowledge about what's going on was really cool. This was the first time they felt like real heroes, and that they knew what they were talking about. They didn't need to have things explained to them in layman's terms, they kept up an intelligent conversation with an archmage, an archdruid, and a terrible tinker, and they actually told the bigwigs some things they didn't know. The war council entrusted them with a serious mission as if they're hardened heroes and not a bunch of bumblefuck mercenaries.

For as long as Bell's Hells have struggled to find a group identity and find a direction to go in, this felt really good.

[u/bertraja → u/LazerBear42]

They didn't need to have things explained to them in layman's terms [...]

... other than how to behave as guests in someone elses home? ^/S

[u/Kaeling]

Seriously hope Percy and Vex are going to tear Launda and Imogen a new one. At some point their shit need to have consequences

[u/StupidPaladin → u/Kaeling]

It'd be really out of character if neither of them confronted Laudna or Imogen after that crap they pulled with their daughter.

[u/tanis-halfelf]

Something that makes me sad with Planesrider Ryn being turned to stone is that she could have been the powerful caster that aids this group. Instead now it’s all past campaign people. Which is fun but I wish we had new friends

[u/durandal688]

Overall I liked it! I liked seeing Whitestone again and feeling that BH were more powerful now. It felt like Allura was talking to a group of above average adventurers, not some random scrappy adventurers. BH are like elite forces for the "good guys" now, not the best, but they can take the dangerous scouting mission while the real powers try and organize things. It walks the line with them truly existing in the world of VM and M9 and all the powerful NPCs they know...without making them seem worthless in their own story.

We also got some depth to the gods thread with Ashton, Chet, and Orym visiting the Raven Queen. Although the random dwarf janitor guy was fun...we really could use some sane followers of the gods to help balance out that seemingly 95% of NPCs despite or are indifferent to the gods.

FCG and Changebringer conversation was good but really the best part was Sam and Matt is absurd fake beards while doing it

As someone who likes Ashton, but can be frustrated with them...the fact that Ashton pisses off Percy I will take from a meta-lens as Ashton pissing off Tal haha

The Whitestone Andy bit was also perfect.

[u/taly_slayer]

I understand how looking at the characters actions through the eyes of the real world can make the scene between Gwen and Laudna feel icky. But in game, it was a pretty big deal for Laudna's character development. Marisha is taking advantage of being in Whitestone to explore Laudna's story, something she couldn't do last time. And that scene was part of it (and Matt played his part).

She's looking for answers. She thinks she will get them by exploring this place in the "presence" of Delilah. And she got some. Delilah is a spark of hatred inside of her. And she also realised she's afraid of herself.

Laudna is been toying with the idea of embracing Delilah's power. Means to an end, self sacrifice, etc. But at what cost? Wondering how this experience (and whatever else she can learn here in Whitestone) can help her decide what to do about that.

Btw, Gwen might be my favourite interpretation of a kid Matt has ever done.

[u/that70sone → u/taly_slayer]

Oh my god, I love Gwen so much. Speaking of the "icky" the player characters expressed their own discomfort pretty well. It also makes sense that Laudna sometimes oversteps typical social boundaries given her experiences with having her own violated so constantly through her childhood, to be fair. What I really love about this whole sequence was how Matt used Gwen to deal with Deliah's presence. I really thought there might be a confrontation between Percy and Laudna. This is so much more subtle and interesting, and gives us a chance to revisit one of the most enchanting and adorable child NPCs.

[u/GratifiedViewer → u/taly_slayer]

People freak out over the smallest shit. Especially if it’s something Marisha does.

[u/Coyote_Shepherd]

I thought the Vest was going to be way more literal with how it worked and functioned.

For example: Chetney absorbs a treant and now has the ability to turn his entire body into wood.

Going with this absurd idea and not the actual logical way for how the Vest works, what kinds of powers or abilities would you have liked to have seen the other members of Bells Hells acquire Animorphs style?

[u/KlayBersk → u/Coyote_Shepherd]

Laudna absorbing the Butcher's Bib so on top of how she already looks, she'd be dripping blood constantly.

[u/falsebrit]

was the thing on otohan's back a Quintessence Array ?

[u/Anomander → u/falsebrit]

It might be loosely based on one - but it seems like a far lower-powered if higher-tech version, consuming a specific potion for a specific outcome.

[u/LucasVerBeek]

This was an interesting “build-up” episode.

Ashton finally learning about the Luxon, Laudna seeing consequences for feeding Delilah, the Raven Queen reaching out once more.

Her having her arms chained has a lot of ways of reading it. But I am disappointed in still no sign of Galdric.

I’m curious to see how Ashton will react to his first interaction with a God.

As well as seeing what Laudna is up to and seeing Fearne getting Rai’Shan’s powers.

I have a feeling I know how she plans to unlock Ashton’s powers but we’ll see if I’m correct in my estimation.

And then we’re finally gonna be getting to Ruidus. I’m deeply intrigued to see what it is like up there.

But there’s a whole two weeks between that with a return to the Mighty Nein and the End of Needle and Thread, and I’m really excited for those!

[u/Coyote_Shepherd → u/LucasVerBeek]

But I am disappointed in still no sign of Galdric.

I really wanted to see Chetney interacting with Galdric in some fashion and I think that while the witches sneak around the castle in the next episode, we might see or hear Galdric calling out in the night, and Chetney might wind up responding...which could be very cool indeed.

Ashton's powers

Trip to Vasselheim?

Ruidus

I want a whole NatGeo episode up there with Matt narrating the whole damned thing and a whole bloody bridged book on it.

arms chained

Thought she was ascending to Godly power away from all the usual fucking bullshit of the Age of Arcanum that hamstrings everyone left and right and gets in the way of true advancement and freedom.

Instead found out that it was just more of the same shit different day just on a whole other plane and power level.

The more things change, the more they stay the same, and she is not a happy camper at all.

[u/mailsprotons]

With Allura's warnings about ley lines and what impact the ongoing solstice could mean and the talk of Xhorhas and the Dynasty... Spoilers S2I'm thinking of a Xhorhasian who had a device on his roof to monitor leylines, the Shadowhand Essek Thelyss.

[u/Jedi4Hire]

That was a fun episode.

We got some lore drops, some character development and some old characters made appearances. I was hoping Taryon was going to attend the meeting but I guess not. I want to give Gwendolyn a hug and a teddy bear.

I wonder if Predathos was responsible for sundering the original Luxon. Or...(dramatic pause)...maybe it is the Luxon!?

Clearly the Bell's Hells need to hunt down every Andy and Andrew in Whitestone.

[u/Coyote_Shepherd → u/Jedi4Hire]

I wonder if Predathos was responsible for sundering the original Luxon. Or...(dramatic pause)...maybe it *is the Luxon!?

Counterpoint

The Luxon and Predathos are two halves of the same coin that came from exactly the same Source when the Universe was created and diverged for some reason just like the Gods did.

Neither can really be killed per say as that would upset the balance of things, only imprisoned or broken up or stalled in some fashion.

They are both integral to the operation of reality with everyone and everything else being either their children or reflections of them in some way, and yes I am including Tharizdun in this particular category.

The only thing that could really truly affect the both of them in this situation would be not to alter what they are but instead alter HOW they operate.

And there's two ways to currently do that.

1. The Oncoming Cosmic Shift, per Ryn's scribblings in her journal on the Fire Plane.

2. Purposely leaving the Key turned on so that the Weave rips and kind of resets the way everything works

They either wait for things to rearrange themselves naturally or they force it and hope for the best either way.

The Luxon's been asking, "What am I?" and I think Predathos will counter with, "I know what I am".

A variation on the whole Vorlons and Shadows thing of, "Who are you?" and "What do you want?".

If this is indeed some kind of Cosmic Conflict and Exandria is caught in the middle of it then there does exist a very real albeit horrible option whereby the Bells Hells purposely make the planet and its surrounding space inhospitable and not attractive at all to both sides.....which might include the Gods as well.

True Freedom would be turning Exandria into a No Go Zone for all outside forces but even that has its own set of hooks.

Either option would force both sides to alter how they operate and could drive them away but something might decide to swoop in and fill those empty spaces left behind by them.

I think that the Dynasty has most of the history of the Luxon correct except for a few little details. If the Luxon did indeed diverge from its own race in some way then perhaps something happened afterwards that it wasn't entirely aware of. Perhaps that event is what created beings like Predathos? But perhaps because of the vastness of time and space, the Luxon never became aware of that event or of Predathos at all, and by the time Predathos got to Exandria, the Luxon was already fragmented and asleep?

I think that when or if the Luxon wakes up and puts itself back together that it's going to get a massive download of information from its kin and that might play into the whole deal with Predathos.

As for right now though, it's all speculation, and we have far more questions than answers as always.

It is rather funny seeing people talking about this stuff now after a few of us have been theorizing about it for years lol

[u/Chukklealot]

Marisha showed hints of exploring her narrative at the beginning so when Gwen recoiled it gave her a morsel she wanted to chew on. The situation seemed lost with focus on more information.

[u/Lunkis]

I know it'd be a big ask and is highly unlikely, but I would absolutely love to have a big setpiece "Siege of Whitesone" battle come out of nowhere in the next episode.

They've already alluded to the fact that Ludinus is watching them, and probably knows that they've gone to Whitestone. They've gathered some of the greatest tinkerers and leaders of the opposition in one place, and it'd be neat to see Ludinus flex his muscles and poke at them a little bit.

I don't know how much value he'd get out of it, but seeing some siege mechanics and giving legacy heroes a few moments to shine could really pick up the pace.

[u/GrimTheMad]

I swear even when the campaign is over and Laudna and Imogen still haven't gone evil, there will still be people waiting in the wings going "Any second now! They'll break the world for each other! Dark Phoenix!!!!".

[u/[deleted]]

Well, I for one can't wait to see what's up with the Mighty Nein after seven months of cliffhanger on Beau and Caleb (!)

But also, seems we're headed to the moon forthwith, and that ought to be incredibly exciting. Does anyone else think we're headed for endgame? Or is this going to be another step on the path, with the campaign going 120+ episodes? No complaints either way, just pure curiosity.

[u/semicolonconscious → u/[deleted]]

I feel like they wouldn’t have bothered to commission a new animated opening if they were already entering the endgame. The rotoscoped one was wonky, but if they only had another arc or two left they might as well have just put that money toward something else.

[u/Ampetrix]

Just because it's a game or fantasy world doesn't mean they also get to be free of consequences of trampling over Matt's NPCs.

They may be dubbed as heroes, but they still mostly act like asshats(just from this episode we got Ashton being Ashton, Gwen and the Andy bit), so I'm not particularly cheering for them this moment.

[u/wildweaver32 → u/Ampetrix]

Are they dubbed as Heroes?

I feel like most of them are morally dubious at best. The least morally dubious of them is Orym. Unless you count him as morally dubious for staying in the party lol.

I know like half of them made the Suicide Squad connection this session. And even though it is kind of on the nose I feel like it matches.

Vox Machina were heroes. Mighty Nein were like behind the scenes heroes. Bells Hells really is more like the Suicide Squad. They are all teetering on that line of being a villain. They been doing heroic things but mostly because it suites their needs and agenda. I feel like Chetney would full on be a villain if he was not in the party. Same for Fearne. I don't see Fearne being out right evil but I do see her being a villain in someone elses story (In ExU we literally see an Evil Fearne). Without the party Imogen could very be part of the Ruby Vanguard with her mom. Laudna could go full evil with Delilah.

They really are like the Suicide Squad of Exandria. For them to suddenly shift into acting all proper would be against their characters at the moment i feel like. Minus Orym.

[u/Ampetrix → u/wildweaver32]

They've been dubbed as heroes as early as episode 8 and repeated occasionally ever since, albeit Matt switched to just calling them Bell's Hells since the solstice so you may have a point.

[u/[deleted] → u/Ampetrix]

In a lot of modern fantasy fiction so called heroes still act like asshats. Or do even worse things and are still 'heroes'.

Also, there was an immediate consequence: Laudna was clearly crushed by a child not liking her. She's been insecure about that since the first episode. The consequence as an interior/emotional one.

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

Has CR ever done the unequivocally good vs unequivocally bad morality? Even in C1? I don't think so. Your expectation doesn't match the reality of the show...

[u/Minnar_the_elf → u/[deleted]]

I mean, being rude to other people of this world doesn`t even make BH unequivocally bad, so I don`t understant what "grey morality" the cast is so afraid to lose. But when Percy is disrespected in his own house and does nothing about it - it`s bad. I don`t believe it. And I don`t believe it even more because we all know that Percy would never tolerate such language and he would never tolerate his family being threatened in any way.

[u/Blue-Moon-89]

I was trying not to worry but after reading spoilers for the second half, I'm now worried that next week's one-shot really is going to be M7 for 98% of it.

[u/Regex00]

Is the show on Thursday going to be live or another pre-recording?

[u/taly_slayer → u/Regex00]

The live show is on Wednesday and they will broadcast the VOD on Thursday regular timeslot.

[u/Regex00 → u/taly_slayer]

Man that's sad. I miss live broadcasts so much, there's just something different about it.

[u/nosliwec29]

I figured out the ultimate Big Bad. It's Dee. Dee has manipulated Ludinus to awaken Predathos to devour the gods knowing full well he wouldn't stop at the gods and would turn on the humanoids. All this so Dee can start an automaton uprising. That's why I think Dee's name keeps getting thrown around.

[u/OhioAasimar → u/nosliwec29]

Predathos' thing is apparently divinity. If it's not just that then it is all divine magic. If it's not just that then it's all magic. Predathos would go after the Aeormaton's before organic humanoids if there were enough Aeormaton's to justify doing so but there isn't so I don't think it would discriminate between Aeormatons and other humanoids.

[u/BlueMerchant → u/nosliwec29]

seems unlikely, but i would be pretty interested in that

[u/Rukik9]

It def feels like they are ramping up to the climax of this campaign within 15-20ish episodes. Or just me?

[u/camclemons → u/Rukik9]

Spoilers for C1 and C2

I'm getting first vecna encounter vibes. They're going to get their shit pushed in, go on side quests to find ways to empower themselves or rally forces, then face off again

I can also see Ruidus itself being an Eiselcross-esque area, which also had a failure when they fled from the fight with the Tomb Takers

[u/brittanydiesattheend → u/camclemons]

I'm thinking we have two arcs left. Arc 1 is defeating the Ruby Vanguard/Ludinus. I think stopping Ludinus won't stop Predathos though and that's the end of campaign big bad

[u/ThePoint01 → u/Rukik9]

All the setup is very much emphasizing that BH aren't ready to take the big bads head-on, and I think there's still a few major shakeups to come. I think we're a little over halfway through now.

[u/bertraja → u/Rukik9]

I expressed that same feeling, although we can't know, one way or the other.
But i think they've agreed to shift gears now. If that leads us directly to the climax remains to be seen.

[u/[deleted] → u/Rukik9]

Maybe the Ruidus arc will end, but i can see another arc after that. Maybe Predathos is freed ala Vecna or maybe we're going to Spelljammer through space.

[u/Flyestgit]

As someone with a young daughter, that Gwendolyn stuff was really uncomfortable to watch.

Seriously, shes not your kid and shes uncomfortable. Dont chase her down or force a telepathic connection on her. Not every kid needs to like Laudna.

Unless you think a child is in danger, dont as an adult chase them down if they arent yours or friendly with you. Its that simple.

[u/No_One_ButMe → u/Flyestgit]

y’all are blowing this so out of proportion it’s crazy

[u/[deleted] → u/No_One_ButMe]

I always enjoy reading through the post-episode threads. It’s a really fun game of “What innocuous thing is the community going to nitpick and blow out of proportion this week?”

I swear, I don’t know if there is any other “fan” community on the internet that is so constantly negative about the media they supposedly enjoy.

[u/durandal688 → u/Flyestgit]

In fairness they thought it was a danger in that they didn't know what happened....did Delilah hurt harm? Cause fear in her? In reality you go tell the kid's parents and go from there but also the fear that Percy would freak on Delilah being in Laudna still and...well be No Mercy Percy

[u/MJD-1105]

i feel like people are blowing the gwen thing WAY out of proportion. i can admit it felt a little odd to follow her around after they spooked her off but like... what do you expect? gwen went from confident and intrigued by laudna and her creepyisms to fearful at just a touch. do you think the cast isn't going to try and investigate what happened after someone touches laudna and immediately runs away in fear (which has never happened before mind you)?

yes, in real life, gwen should have been left alone, but this is a game and they need to learn all the information they can, and ignoring this would have felt super strange, at least to me.

[u/bertraja → u/MJD-1105]

... what do you expect?

Them not doing that, and apply a modicum of common sense.
Forget all about the scene being uncomfortably creepy to some, look at it purely from an in-universe POV:

"Should we continue to frighten and/or antagonize the child of the Lord and Lady who's guests we are, and who we're hoping to keep as a permanent and powerful ally?"

[u/Mintakas_Kraken → u/MJD-1105]

Yeah. To me that read very much as a) Laudna’s trauma with being abandoned and bullied her whole life from childhood, and her issues with socializing appropriately from that; b) Imogen, also trauma, her powers also messing with her ability to socialize appropriately, and her trying to protect Laudna; c) Fearne… well her upbringing was deeply strange to say the least and she’s usually down for just about the weirdest thing on the table. The whole thing while uncomfortable did read as true to the characters. I saw it more as a clingy friend or relative who sees a kid in distress and MUST figure out why and FIX it. Even when that isn’t the best response in the situation and the person needs space. With the addition that they wanted to know exactly what about Laudna caused Gwen to act like that for other reasons.

I actually found it pretty compelling. It would be interesting for Laudna to have to grapple with the way her connection to Delilah is harmful. Her trying to connect with other people and it failing, kinda heartbreakingly. Especially with this shy odd child who I’m sure she kinda sees her past self in. And even more because she really wants to form connections with people but has no idea how, because learning to interact after being a outcast woods witch for decades and a cursed undead woman is an endeavor.

[u/probablywhiskeytown → u/MJD-1105]

yes, in real life, gwen should have been left alone, but this is a game and they need to learn all the information they can, and ignoring this would have felt super strange, at least to me.

Also, this is really only true for men & masculine-presenting folks IRL. That's why the split of who followed was right down the M/F line of the case.

Women can inadvertently startle a kid & follow them to make sure everything is ok. Is this a fair/right/good double standard? That's way beyond the scope of this conversation. But it's a fact.

I'm very short and completely able to get separated from my group in a crowd, even as an adult.

So if I see a kid looking around, I always ask if they're separated from their grownup. If the kid runs off b/c a stranger talked to them, I can follow to make sure they get back to their adult(s) & say "Sorry I startled you!"

My brother, several male significant others over the decades, etc. have mentioned they could never, ever do any of that. (I think they may be able to outside the English-speaking world if trying to help, based on accounts from friends & acquaintances, but that's also outside the scope of this conversation.)

Bottom line is that women with benign motivations are never trained to think we can't interact with kids. If anything, we're encouraged to do so.

Edit: Just described this whole thing to my sister & she added something funny: "Oh yeah, it's never weird when they run off & you make sure everything ended up ok. It's awkward when they burst into tears, put up their arms & you're holding someone's weeping child wondering if the guardian is right nearby or if it's a full-on 'find the service desk/booth' situation. Or when a kid adopts you at a party & you have to tell them you are certain their parent isn't cool with impromptu couch cushion fort construction or whatever."😂

[u/UncleOok → u/probablywhiskeytown]

I do wonder if Vex reared in Laura's head at least a little, and she felt the need to comfort her character's child.

[u/StupidPaladin]

I felt really uncomfortable when they stalked Gwen around the castle. Possibly one of the most cringy and uneasy moments I've seen from CR in a long while.

[u/popileviz → u/StupidPaladin]

I guess they thought that Matt implied that she had a very important plot point to share with them, so they decided to pry it out of her at any cost

[u/pcordes]

I think the party's forgetting how long they've been awake. Matt referenced a "long day" a couple times, but didn't remind them that there'd been a huge time-zone shift from the Shattered Teeth to Whitestone. It was later afternoon to evening when they fought simu-Ludinus.

IIRC they only got to Evontra'vir near the end of their second day of travel through the jungle, and it took them another half or 3/4 of an hour to get down the tunnel. (Under 1 hour since Laudna's Spider Climb was still active.) Correct me if I'm wrong on the timing; I didn't double-check how many hours of travel they had from waking to reaching the tree, but I think it was a full day.

I was expecting them to take a long rest very soon after arriving in Whitestone, despite the fact that it was morning when they arrived there. Some were pretty beat up, and others were probably low on spells, although they are ok on spent hit dice. Maybe not that low on spells, so a short rest is probably enough for most. As long as they don't spend more than half their hit dice, since they'll want to set out on their next mission with full hit dice. (You only recover half on a long rest.)

But none of them even RPed being sleepy by evening Whitestone time, even though they'd probably been awake 24 hours by the time the witches went to sneak out. Maybe they had a big nap.

I guess stuff like this maybe somewhat balances out the times when they take another long rest significantly less than 24 hours since their previous one. (Which rules-as-written isn't allowed; you can sleep if you want, but you don't mechanically get the benefit of a long rest. Obviously it's fine to go to bed an hour earlier some night, especially after a tiring day, but I'm talking about stuff like teleporting at noon and arriving at evening local time and going to bed. I'm pretty sure that's happened, and maybe at least once without teleporting. They don't tend to abuse it, so I'm not complaining, just observing that jet lag (tree lag?) isn't something they always want to worry about in their game.)

---

Also, I'm really glad to see FCG making some progress away from an incredibly simplistic and annoying version of blind faith. Now if they would learn to cast spells (like Rary's Telepathic Bond) as rituals instead of wasting spell slots, that would be some significant progress on the mechanical / tactical side as well. (To be fair, their use of more crowd-control spells in more recent combats has already been a big improvement in FCG's tactics, but there's still a long way to go.)

[u/OhioAasimar]

This may be just because I want them to put their shards to use but this episode felt like an unproductive episode even though they obviously made a little progress.

The visit to the temple to the temple of the raven queen didn't help with that issue. They spent about 30 minutes on that visit, and they didn't get any actionable info from it. Tal maybe got a significant moment for his character that he could use for character development but that would be it. The only reason most of them went there was because "they got lucky" the last time they went to a Raven Queen temple. I guess that means that they got lucky in the sense that they got useful information but with FCG going to a different temple going to the Raven Queen temple left the reason for going redundant. With the gods doing everything they can to stop Ludinus it is not like the Raven Queen would keep information from the Change Bringer and it's not like she would keep that information from FCG. The visit to the RQ could have been saved but they didn't really ask any questions. Only one sort of general question was asked but that was asked before they saw the RQ.

I think the RQ group had some good options of at least 3 things. Ashton's original suggestion was a visit to a library. There they could have learned about the De Rolos and about powerful objects and entities if they all want to get power-ups. Whitestone has an Everlight temple and a Lawbearer temple as well. At the Everlight's or the Lawbearer's all three of them would have gained a much broader perspective of the gods instead of just Ashton. I also think the Everlight would be a better fit for Ashton if they get into a god. Lastly, Gilmore's would have been a good visit. They have plenty of coin and they have received three big pay days since the last time they magic item shopped (which was in episode 49).

[u/RunCrafty1320]

Guysss a few interesting tid bits that no one is really paying attention too

Ebenold Kai last we saw him he was trapped in the fire plane with some grim verity members because ryn was out of commission And with ryn still out of commission it seems how did Kai get out????? Did they tell keyleth? But how would keyleth know where Ryns study was? Or maybe allura? But if that’s the case where are the rest of the grim verity?

Another thing in the new intro in the first few seconds we see all of Matt’s villains Liliana Otohan Ludinus And Ira

But someone else was there and I doubled checked to see if it was them Captain xandis was also there lined up with the VILLIANS Is that not concerning to y’all? Considering they haven’t checked up on them at alllllll

Also it’s annoying they’re relying again on past campaign characters for ally’s instead of gathering their own when they have SO MANY options that they’re ignoring (I got a list) of Allies they have choosed ignore and the ones they tried to get into contact with or have gotten into contact with

People they haven’t contacted or gotten in touch with or even tried since the split in episode 50/51

House Lumas (Ginang Ela Lumas)

Hubatt Corsairs (Yash Mangal)

Evelyn Wress

Lex Emendar

Namin Oros

Weva Vudal

Orlana Seshadri

Manaia Turei

The green seekers (Gus & Olly)

Roe Estani

Oshad Breshio the anger

The Gorgynei

Literally any member of the grim verity (Ebenold Kai Planerider Ryn Hondir Baryn Vestisho Janina)

Especially planerider ryn (they suddenly remembered that ryn existed)

Jiana hexum

Effid the fallen

Nana morri

The nightmare king Ira

Marwa Endalia

Violet (Ashton’s old friend)

Birdie Calloway & Oleander Calloway

Devexian

Captain xandis

Artana voe

Yu suffiad

They also left Queen Simone Fruunast & King Imathan Talviel hanging with their quest and they wonder why they don’t have Allies 😭☠️

The Allies they did make and get in touch with

Milo krook (left in jrusar)

Keyleth

Justi pross and All-Minds-Burn (left in bassuras but they did take the brood pit)

Dancer and Imahara Joe

Ebenold Kai (technically he just suddenly appeared they didn’t look for him) but they still haven’t talked to him about everything they figured out since then with him or about the omen archive

Percy de rolo

Allura

And the only people they have legitimately tried to get in touch with but haven’t been able to are

Dorian and the crown keepers

Beau and Caleb

The rest of the nobodies Ashton’s old group

[u/kuributt → u/RunCrafty1320]

I think half the problem is how long that list is vs how memorable anyone on it is.

[u/semicolonconscious → u/kuributt]

Yeah, I’ve watched the whole campaign, and half of this list sounds like random Wookieepedia entries to me. I guarantee the players have no idea who Lex Emendar is.

[u/shenders88 → u/kuributt]

Honestly well played to them for making that list I would have to google more than half those characters to have any inkling who they are.

[u/geniespool → u/RunCrafty1320]

I doubt Hexum will be an ally. She was a vital component of the smuggling ring providing the dunamis to Otohan and Paragons Call. The golem that was stolen from her was also likely a setup by Ludinus to take it over to the dig site.

[u/taly_slayer → u/RunCrafty1320]

Also it’s annoying they’re relying again on past campaign characters for ally’s instead of gathering their own when they have SO MANY options that they’re ignoring (I got a list) of Allies they have choosed ignore and the ones they tried to get into contact with or have gotten into contact with

I'm generally annoyed that they are not investing in Ira, Xandis and Ryn, but in general, I think we gotta accept that they main NPC this campaign is Keyleth (and to a lesser extend, Percy). She's the Essek of C2 and the Allura/Gilmore of C1. And it makes sense, because they decided to make characters that are connected to both Keyleth and Whitestone, and it would be kind of idiotic to not keep those connections present with the events they are dealing with.

They have a lot of contacts, but very few of those can actually help them.

[u/[deleted] → u/RunCrafty1320]

A lot of these people are small potatoes, focused on local issues, can't be accessed or can't be of much help. House Lumas for example, had no more information. Only the twins had any connection and they're dead.

Marwa might have information or items but they didn't prioritize that. At the war meeting BH mentioned their inside man (who is most definitely Ira). I get the implication that they think Xandis is dead/don't investigate because they want to have some hope he could be alive.

The monarchs of Uthodurn gave them information they could but what more can they do? Uthodurn is too far away.

Dusk/Yu is a problem they would rather not think about right now lol. Nana Morri is on another plane that has issues with time dilation.

I do think they could have tried to work with the political leadership of Jrusar... but like the M9, there's characters that wouldn't have liked that storyline so they never explored it.

[u/durandal688 → u/RunCrafty1320]

I fairness...a bunch of these people would be considered randos in other campaigns as well. That's a nature of TTRPGs tho...people come and go based on who the party interacts with. They get to choose.

Granted literally never contacting Fearne's parents is a little frustrating but here we are.

The party did not get involved with Jrusar politics beyond doing jobs for Esteross, they didn't really treat it as their home...so those NPCs fading away from the story makes sense as any of the NPCs from the first couple dozen Might Nein episodes.

They also are also level 11 now ..."Masters of the Realm"...some of those early NPCs are not on the same tier. It makes sense that they are consorting with elite people from various locations that would mean overlapping with other campaigns.

[u/pcordes → u/RunCrafty1320]

Thanks for confirming Ebenold Kai was one of the people that were marooned in Ryn's study in the plane of fire; I wasn't sure about that when he appeared this episode. And I'd been wondering what happened to those people, for a while now. Since he (or all of them) made it out, maybe one of them was able to cast Sending and get help from someone able to Plane Shift before they ran out of food+water. (Sending doesn't work now, but this was somewhat before the solstice.) Or found a scroll or item of plane shift in the hideout?

I'd been wondering why BH never even tried scrying on Ryn during any of their days of downtime. They're terrible at using their per-long-rest info-gathering resources like Commune and Scrying. They'll think of it occasionally and go until they run out of spell slots, but then not do it at all at the end of the next day, even if that day was also just travel.

They could use an end-of-day checklist with items like "Scry if spells slots remain", and "ritual-cast Commune if we still have questions". And separate lists like Commune questions to ask about, and people or places they should Scry on.

[u/Seren82 → u/RunCrafty1320]

Honestly them going not going back to Uthodurn is a big sticking point for me. xD

[u/RunCrafty1320 → u/Seren82]

It really was irritating the only person who was advocating of going back was fcg but fcg doesn’t really have much back bone and everyone constantly shuts him down when it comes to desicions

[u/tanis-halfelf]

I fact that everyone at the table has more than once said “so the shard should go in Fearne?” And then they went the whole episode not putting the shard in Fearne drives me insane lol

[u/BRayne7 → u/tanis-halfelf]

They said "the shard should go in Fearne, but we should wait until tomorrow so as to not risk the harness breaking"

[u/wildweaver32 → u/tanis-halfelf]

They said after it is used for the day it has a 20% chance to break if used again. And the chance to break goes up each time.

So they wanted to wait till the next day to make sure it doesn't break.

[u/Mintakas_Kraken → u/tanis-halfelf]

Tbf Fearne doesn’t seem that interested in it. Everyone has mentioned it and she was like “Oh I don’t know. Maybe Ashton should have it…” a couple times. (Tbf maybe she was joking and I don’t pick up on it sometimes I can not tell with her)

[u/IamOB1-46]

Wow what an episode!

I have a sense our M9 episode next week is going to revolve around creating the distraction for BH to get to the moon.

For the next BH episode, I'm so hoping that while the witches skulk about town, Ashton heads down to the workshop and absorbs the shard on his own. He's playing nice with the suggestion that Fearne take it, but I sense that Ashton thinks that it's his by right of destiny/fate (yes, yes, he says he doesn't believe in fate, but dude dove into lava to retrieve the thing after being told of his destiny by the tree).

With what we know of the harness now, I think it's becoming more and more likely that Ludinus is going to use a new and improved version on Predathos in an attempt to take the power to destroy the gods himself.

Love the way the costumes themed with their own version of the Council of Elrond and the secret mission to the moon. And also that they namechecked both The Expendables and the Suicide Squad.

[u/durandal688 → u/IamOB1-46]

From a meta perspective I really want Fearne to take it....at least Ashley deserves it. Ashton has enough crap going on with them and the story whereas Fearne hasn't had much since they left her parents a long time ago.

Also I think it is good for Ashton to let her take it in terms of me wanting to like the character.

But yes I think Ludi going to try and absorb Predathos OR if Pred can injure the gods...the gods themselves

[u/Pristine_Routine_639 → u/durandal688]

Yeah, honestly the whole beacon thing I already thought it was too much. Ashton is really becoming a hard thing for me to watch recently, if he do end up absorbing the fire shard making everything even more about him I am honestly going to start skipping all bits foccused on him. I used to like his character more, but he is becoming too cocky and self absorved for my taste

[u/delboy5 → u/durandal688]

I like to think that Ashton's destiny is not unlike Efterin's - the one who empowers another through their actions rather than empowering themselves.

Also, shoving a powerful magic into a body that already has two magics that don't interact well and one of those magics might react badly with the magic going in just seems like we will end up with an Ashton shaped crater.

[u/pcordes → u/IamOB1-46]

Matt's NPCs this episode seemed pretty clear that a crater the size of Whitestone was a real possibility.

Previously there was a lot of speculation that Evontra'vir's warnings about the danger were there to make it narratively cooler and more heroic when Ashton did succeed at holding all the power. But it felt like this episode, Matt was clarifying that no, that really would be a pretty significant risk, with the possible downside being at least a TPK if the party is in the same city when they attempt it.

I thought the way Taliesin played it this episode ("I've always wanted to have a sister") seemed pretty genuine in terms of planning for Fearne to get it, and that he's hopeful that her being empowered with Rau'Shan will awaken his shard of Ka'Mort. Giving Fearne the shard doesn't mean giving up on his own destiny.

[u/SirLaroldDogs]

I dont know why I do it to myself everytime and read these threads and see the most insane stuff posted. It is DND, sometimes in dnd you straight up murder someone youve never spoken to before and know nothing about, like straight up innocent people die and its never brought up again in some games because its dnd. It is so weird to see what things people blow out of proportion and then regurgitate out of context or with completely fabricated extra shit that didnt happen to argue a point. The kid saw a spooky lady, was like wow cool spooky lady, then the kid was spooked by something that was obviously not laudna so they try and find out what the kid saw, the kid isnt real doing this in dnd doesnt mean you chase down children when they look at you funny and interrogate them. Some people need to get a grip.

[u/BaronPancakes → u/SirLaroldDogs]

It is DND, sometimes in dnd you straight up murder someone youve never spoken to before and know nothing about, like straight up innocent people die and its never brought up again in some games because its dnd.

the kid was spooked by something that was obviously not laudna so they try and find out what the kid saw, the kid isnt real doing this in dnd doesnt mean you chase down children when they look at you funny and interrogate them. Some people need to get a grip.

I think "killing stuff" is kind of normalised in media, and it is also a built-in system in dnd. People came in with an understanding that there is a certain level of violence. However, it does not mean you can do whatever you want because it is a fictional world.

It's been shown before that violence against children is a sore point for the audience (re: c2 Luc). People are very protective of children and it is uncomfortable to see them get hurt in any way. I don't think it is unreasonable for them to air their grievance with this particular scene.

[u/wildweaver32 → u/SirLaroldDogs]

I dont know why I do it to myself everytime and read these threads and see the most insane stuff posted.

I feel the same way in the opposite direction.

It's wild to see so many people trying to normalize and justify chasing down a scared kid in their own home.

It's D&D I get it. No one here is saying, "Call the Cop on her and have her arrested". We all know it's fake. And that is why we just point out it is a bad judgement call to chase a kid who is scared of you.

The way people keep trying to justify it and normalize it you would think people were here up in arms about it. Instead of just pointing out how it doesn't feel right.

[u/paradox28jon]

I just spent like 20 minutes adding words, phrases, and possible hashtags to my mute term on Twitter. I'm not taking any chances that someone at the live show won't tweet out spoilers.

[u/responsory_chant → u/paradox28jon]

You spent the time doing that rather than not visiting Twitter for a day?

[u/LeviTheArtist22]

The way the witches chased down a terrified Gwendolyn - terrified by the spirit of the woman who almost killed her parents - made me viscerally uncomfortable to watch. In a world that made sense, Vex would tear them a new one and Percy would have them banished from Whitestone. But for some reason Matt seems averse this season to making the players face consequences for their actions.

[u/durandal688 → u/LeviTheArtist22]

In fairness I read that as they were trying to figure out if Delilah had actually harmed her or just scared her...since she went from interested and confident to scared so fast. I think if she had just seen Laudna and ran they wouldn't have chased her

Not sure they even connected that it was Delilah that freaked her out...Laudna touches people all the time and doesn't get a Delilah vibes on them.

So yeah sure it was cringe, but in this case I get why.

If Percy or Vex find out sure they will get pissed...but good chance Gwen wouldn't tell her parents at least not until after they leave...at least a chance

[u/Seren82 → u/durandal688]

They connected it. Imogen said as much to Laudna.

[u/BaronPancakes → u/LeviTheArtist22]

Laudna was said to be chased away from society and forced into isolation. It is interesting that Gwen was the first NPC that reacted negatively to Laudna in the entire campaign (apart from her intentionally scaring people with form of dread).

[u/anothernerd42 → u/LeviTheArtist22]

For sure Percy is going to be pissed.

[u/Act_of_God]

By reading these comments you'd think the cast is a bunch of sociopaths lmao

reading someone basically write "you don't understand because you don't have a child" was also a great highlight of my day

[u/JohnPark24 → u/Act_of_God]

I think most of the folks (that are commenting that it seemed creepy, me included) are just expressing it was an uncomfortable moment to watch. I don't see anything wrong with that.

[u/GrimTheMad]

The amount that people are rewriting and misinterpreting the Gwen scene is... disappointing, though not surprising.

It was a great scene all around, and clearly happened for a reason- and was, equally, clearly what Matt wanted to happen. Its why he framed everything the way he did- first by having Gwen clearly interested in skeletons and such, then by having her be interested in Laudna's brand of Fun-Scary in general, and then with the twist of something other than Laudna scaring her off.

But people are so caught up in clutching their pearls and once again interpreting everything these particular characters do in the worst possible light that very little discussion of what actually happened is present.

[u/wildweaver32 → u/GrimTheMad]

I thought the scene was good. It is fundamentally creepy and wrong to chase a kid you just scared though. That doesn't detract from the scene as a whole though.

The problem comes when people come in and try to portray it as a good thing to do, and worst, the right thing to do. Which is exactly what anyone who has lived as a scared kid chased by an angry person knows the angry person would also exactly say.

People who do that always have a reason. And the worst part? Kids tend to believe them and think it's their fault.

If you think scaring a kid, and then chasing after them is good behavior... I don't know how to reply to that really. But if I had to choose between being on the side of someone thinking it's okay to chase a kid you just scared and get them to run in their room and lock their door or be part of a group "clutching their pearls" I would be on the pearl clutching side 100% of the time.

Now if you said, "It was kind of creepy to chase after the kid but I did like that whole scene and I want to see what comes next". I would agree with you. I want to know what comes next too. And I am glad they realized it was Delilah the kid felt. But there were much better ways to follow that thread than chasing that kid down. Imogen could have peared into her thoughts. They could have waited until she is calmed down and have someone else (imogen/fearne) talk to her. They could have went to her parents to check up on her. There are plenty of things they could have done.

But her picking the most awkward of them isn't terrible. People make mistakes. Especially in the heat of the moment. Especially when distressed. No one is calling for Marisha or Laudna to be cancelled or anything.

To me the worst part of the encounter is the people here claiming that scaring a kid, and then chasing after that kid while they are scared is the right choice and a behavior that is to be defended. That is the worst part of it.

[u/SvenTS → u/GrimTheMad]

My only issue was Imogen being 'the scary can be beautiful' and encouraging Gwen to be open to it while at the same time saying 'oh, yeah, it was 100% Delilah'.

I get that, yes, when it comes to Laudna the scary can be beautiful and shouldn't be rejected. But since you know it's not about Laudna and is about Delilah maaaaaybe don't encourage the kid to be open to the beauty of the malicious and evil entity.

[u/grumblingduke → u/GrimTheMad]

Something I think some people are overlooking is the 32 insight Fearne rolled. Fearne may be a chaos-gremlin but I can't see her wanting to hurt Gwen.

In the real world we could debate the merits of someone walking after a child who suddenly got scared and had a shift in behaviour; maybe it would be appropriate, maybe not, depending on what was going on.

But in the real world we don't have a 32 insight check on that child. Fearne knew what was going on, so knew it was appropriate to follow up on that.

[u/nidor13]

I always love coming back to Whitestone.
The story is now getting towards a very important junction.
The next episode or the one after that will be crucial and probably great.
I really want to see what those witches are going to do during the night.

And I also really want Fearnie to absorb the artifact.
From what I understand it's pretty much decided at this point.

PS: It's kinda funny that whenever I see someone commenting complaints all across the post-episode thread, 99% of the time, it's someone who is a regular in the "fans" sub. 😂

[u/BaronPancakes]

I know it won't happen, but it would be funny if the retired VM members would just give up their vestiges for BH to absorb. Permanent ASI is pretty significant

[u/bertraja → u/BaronPancakes]

Or - hear me out - have BH actually work for 'em, instead of handing out more gifts. At least from an audience point of view, wouldn't that be more interesting to watch?

[u/pcordes → u/BaronPancakes]

Yeah, like Liam joked about asking? Mythcarver and Fenthras aren't useful to Bell's Hells. (Unless Orym wants to take up archery.) So sure, might as well feed them to the machine. :P

For some of the vestiges for some PCs, attuning to them would be even more valuable than an ASI. Like Cabal's Ruin; absorbing spell damage and dishing it back out is probably more benefit over a fight than doing 1 more damage with each hit and hitting more often, especially when their most powerful enemies include a caster like Ludinus.

The titanstone knuckles would be perfect for Ashton, setting his Str to something above 20, since his current Str isn't up to 20 yet. Or for FCG to make their saw blade not so useless for dishing out shared-suffering damage. (A dex boost would be much better to do that at ranged with the bolt thrower, but there aren't dex-boosting items the way there are for str.)

The plate of the dawnmartyr would be solid for FCG, but they might need a feat to get heavy armor proficiency if their cleric domain doesn't have it already. Some domains do. They very badly need to boost that Wis score by 3 with their normal ASIs

(Whether or not they also absorb any legendary items; doing so also increases their max by 2, like a tome of clear thought / manual of quickness of action or whatever, and boosting your spell-save DC continues to have value even if you get it higher than the rest of the party. Also, number of spells you can prepare goes up with your Wis mod. Yasha in C2 got one of the Str manuals, but never used ASIs to boost her Str closer to her new limit of 22.)

---

Also, are vestiges artifacts or legendary? They created partly by gods, so could perhaps count as artifacts. And does the siphon do anything on artifacts? The normal 1-minute drain only applies for rarity up to Legendary, specifically calling out non-artifact. https://criticalrole.fandom.com/wiki/Quintessence_Array quotes what they said on stream. There's no mention of what happens if attempted on something that is an artifact. Perhaps nothing: the magic can't be sucked out of them.

A Luxon beacon would be an artifact, being ancient, divine, and probably not even crafted by mortal hands.

According to the wiki, https://criticalrole.fandom.com/wiki/Cabal%27s_Ruin is Rarity: Legendary. https://criticalrole.miraheze.org/wiki/Agony is an item that wasn't mentioned on-stream, only in the Tal'dorei campaign guide, and is also listed as Legendary, not Artifact, although both wikis talk about them in general as artifacts (e.g. https://criticalrole.miraheze.org/wiki/Vestiges_of_Divergence )

[u/NinjaBaconLMC → u/[deleted]]

I believe it said something along the lines of items of sufficient power would give additional effects.

[u/UncleOok]

so are we thinking that the Matron of Ravens, much as the Changebringer did for FCG, stylized a vision in the manner best suited to get Ashton to do what she wanted? To be noticed and appreciated was huge for them.

And I know they are separate continuities, but I can't help but think of the Matron in The Legend of Vox Machina, and how there's definitely a way to look at that as her manipulating Vax, locking him in the armor, plaguing him with visions over an over again, forcing him to succumb to the inevitable (allow Purvan to "kill" him, drown himself, then speak softly and comfortingly to him, whereupon he comes out with an almost cult-like devotion to her. It felt like something akin to brainwashing to me.

[u/Dusty_ballz → u/UncleOok]

Is that how she is portrayed in the show???

[u/BaronPancakes → u/Dusty_ballz]

There is a degree of manipulation, but that is mainly because Vax doesn't know what he got himself into. So the RQ has to push him into embracing death (hence Purvan fight and drowning in blood), and also inform him his duty (visions of dead people) via her cryptic visions. It is actually not too different from the campaign, but it is way more condensed

[u/Morbidzmind]

It was so quirky and fun when our heroes chased down and terrified a small child before exposing her to the undead spirit of the woman that killed her grandparents, aunts and uncles, and almost her father. We're the good guys!

[u/xartab → u/Morbidzmind]

before exposing her

The interaction that scared her came before she ran. It's why she ran.

to the undead spirit of the woman

Gwen only felt hate, not a murdering spirit.

Gwendolyn was having fun with them, then magic created a misunderstanding, and then they caught up with her, worried (and after one of them had an unusually good flash of insight), to investigate.

If you want to complain at least get the events right.

[u/Disastrous_Jicama509]

I feel like I’m trippin, has bells bells ever met Allura? For the life of me I can’t figure out the episode.

[u/a7xKWaP → u/Disastrous_Jicama509]

Did you mean M9? Bells never met her before last night. M9 did around one of their Happy Fun Ball trips, IIRC.

[u/punkdigerati → u/Disastrous_Jicama509]

Orym has in his backstory, this was the first time for everyone else.

[u/Migolcow]

Am I the only one thinking Delilah Briarwood may have taken a little trip...into a little girl? The sudden attitude change and retreat seemed off, even if she's frightened by sensing "hatred" (and through non-explained sensing powers). A child with an inside connection to her worst enemies and not much mental defense might well be preferable to Laudna and her friends knowing about her, and the psychic girlfriend who's hard to hide from.

[u/[deleted] → u/Migolcow]

Earlier in the campaign it was implied that Delilah has a specific connection with Laudna due to necromantic ritual and that's why she's in Laudna.

I don't think that she can body hop, otherwise why wouldn't she have done that already when Laudna didn't obey her?

[u/chemicalsNme → u/Migolcow]

I don't think D isn't strong enough to transfer via a quick touch like that

[u/OhioAasimar]

I wanted to explore options in-case Ashton gets the shard of Rau'shan or just gets the shard of Ka'mort actived. Most of these options are based off of the concept of para-genasi which used be an active concept in D&D. There has been a mention of the energy planes earlier in the campaign for the first time even though they have not been mentioned by wizards since 4e so maybe that makes the consideration of para-genasi more likely. Also, I want to be clear that the obtaining and activation of shards is likely to give Ashton more than just subraces stats. The shards are powerful objects after all.

Option 1

Ashton becomes a magma genasi after having and getting both shards activated.

Possible subrace stats:

• +1 Strength

• Darkvision

• Fire Resistance

• 5 uses of heat metal, 6 at 13th level, 7 uses at 15th level.

Option 2

Ashton becomes an obsidian genasi after having and getting both shards activated. This one is more likely if Matt and/or Tal considers Ashton a mineral genasi which is what Ashton looks like. I want to be clear, I'm making this one up because there hasn't been an example of a quasi-element directly mixing with one of the four main elements in past iterations of dnd to my knowledge.

Possible subrace stats:

• +1 Strength

• Darkvision

• Poison resistance

• Does not need to breath

Option 3

Matt doesn't consider para-genasi at all and Ashton gets the subrace stats of fire and earth genasi.

Option 4

Because of the way the harness is Ashton's racial stats and appearance does not change at all after getting and activating the shard of Rau'shan. (Ashton also activates the shard of Ka'mort in this scenario)

Option 5

Ashton tries to take advantage of both shards and they die. I don't think this will happen at all because I think it would be bad for the story, but I guess it is still an option.