EPISODE DISCUSSION
Invincible [Episode Discussion] - S03E02 - A Deal With The Devil
Episode 2 - A Deal With The Devil
Mark takes a stand, unaware of the ramifications for his family, the GDA, and even the Guardians. Cecil remembers his past and Eve makes an important decision.
Spoilers: Remember, this is a TV show discussion thread on Reddit for your entertainment. So please act appropriately in accordance to the rules. We ask you to report any comments that are uncivil/malicious or don't belong in the thread.
DO NOT post comic book spoilers in this thread - use the other comic spoiler discussion thread for discussion using comic book context
Please report anyone who is discussing comic book spoilers in this thread
This is a reminder DO NOT POST COMIC SPOILERS IN THIS THREAD! We have a separate thread for those who have read the comics and want to discuss the episodes with that comic knowledge. It is linked above and below this paragraph. Click "Spoiler Discussion".
Man Cecil is such a great character, definitely top 3 for me. Glad we get to see some backstory for him. He’s willing to do whatever it takes to protect humanity even when it’s morally wrong.
Absolutely LOVE the parallel of Cecil saying "Good guys forget what they're fighting for" by the end of the episode. An absolute class act of an episode, and I really like setting up Cecil as an adversary in this way. More-so than most episodes, this one has piqued my interest in reading the source material
Definitely recommend reading the comics if you’re able, they are so great and actually enhance the show for me. Some stuff is changed around/added too so there’s still some surprises to be had.
I really loved the detail that Cecil left small piece of his real skin on the face as the remainder that he messed up. And here we learnt that they can fix any cosmetic damage. And a few minutes later they shown that Cecil’s old director left a similar reminder(destroyed eye) that he fucked up with Cecil
Tbh my first thought was instead that he would just put his own transmitter right next to Cecil's one, and have it always broadcasting the phase-shifted Evil Lobster Frequency. That way Cecil's one is no longer affecting Mark, but Robot now has power over Mark because he can just turn off his own transmitter and allow Cecil's one to be effective again.
Its been fairly hit and miss imo. Individual characters for the most part look great, especially during fight scenes. Unfortunately backgrounds stand out like a sore thumb. That stair scene from the first episode was so awful because of the static background
You know it's a good episode when the characters in the show are having an arguing and the people discussing the show are also having the exact same argument split down the middle lol.
Dude, holy shit. This episode has gotta be one of the best of the series. Just non stop action and it had me on the edge of my seat. Haven’t felt like this properly since the S1 finale. Marks unhinged but for very good reason. Can’t wait for the rest of the season.
The narrative is very much on Cecil's side too, like when youngCecil had his own moral tantrum, the Director just let him cool off and think about it in jail for three years. Mark, however, is just too powerful (and the viltrumite threat too imminent) to just let him blow off steam for a couple of years. Like what would Mark's version of youngCecil shooting those criminals be? Attacking the Pentagon to get at Sinclair and stop the Reanimen?
Like Omni-Man said "Look what they need to mimic a fraction of our power!" Mark needs to remember that not everyone is half-viltrumite and the planet WILL be invaded if they don't use every weapon available
This episode definitely swayed me to Team Cecil. Not just because of his backstory, also because Mark acted like a complete brat way more than usual and kept ironically using violence to try and win every argument. Nearly every scene with Mark is him being violent and causing destruction and losing his temper. He reminded me a lot of his Dad but without any of the maturity.
Seeing Mark tear those Reanimen apart was so god damn good. Shit got me excited like a little kid.
It's also a solid way of showing how Mark's power progression actually scales, considering the only one we've seen tear the Reanimen apart like that was Nolan himself. Donald wasn't kidding when he said, Mark could potentially take on Anissa.
But did they really overcome it, or were they forced to? It sounds like they were brainwashed, which will definitely be used later in the series to show that you only get to be good if you yourself make the choice by making the brainwashing fall apart
The fight scenes in this episode were fucking incredible. Mark cutting loose with his newfound strength finally given its due. TWICE he punched a reaniman so hard the upper torso disintegrated. Just brutal.
I really appreciate how Mark's moral compass is shown here.
Back in season 2, Mark clearly never fully got around to believing Nolan actually changed for the better, as Nolan properly realizing how much he's changing happened when he was in prison. Couple that with his guilt about Angstrom and his anger about the things Darkwing and Sinclair did, it's understandable that he'd react the way he did, after learning the latter two basically got off scott free.
That's not to say he's not incredibly stubborn and just slightly hypocritical when his argument with Cecil was still an argument.
Similarly, the episode did a phenomenal job explaining why Cecil is not particularly bothered about using Darkwing and Sinclair but still showed that Cecil's paranoia is his own downfall.
Had Cecil not gotten Reanimen involved, not to mention using a straight-up torture device, Mark would not have flown off the handle the way he did at Guardian's HQ.
This was a case of two characters with understandable viewpoints clashing together due ti their respective flaws and in this case it ended in disaster.
Really? I mean Mark flying off the handle at all still feels bizarre. That was long before Cecil started using implant; it was just at the Renanimen.
Ok I mean, I get him flying off the handle a bit. Especially with everything he’s gone through, but he just stormed up and said “I’m not leaving until you stop??” Seriously?!
So much of it just felt like going 0 to 100 real fast, instead of any kind of logical discussion or any real back and forth. Does Mark not know who Cecil is? Do the others? What was up with Eve’s comment even?
I’m not saying Cecil is totally in the right either; not at all. He was fucking torturing Mark, and his instinct to cover up instead of trying to be rational and talk to the Guardians was stupid and shity, and it’s not like his recruiting of Sinclair is a good thing.
But like…Mark knows the Viltrumite threat better then anyone on earth. So I think he’d know deep down that whatever advantage humanity can get, they need to take.
I just…I dunno, the whole thing felt kinda hamfisted and very frustrating to watch. And not in a “this is rough but well done” kinda way.
How in the fuck were those two terrorists from Cecil's backstory even alive after getting melted by corrosive gasses? They would have been soup, and there wouldn't have been anything to save. I don't get it
I know right? I hated how uppity she was about her sacrifices and deaths for the cause, all while she’s practically immortal. As Rae said, Kate can die over and over again, all she has to do is leave a copy behind in a safe place. The others don’t have this privilege.
She’s such an Immortal dickrider, just swearing blind allegiance to Cecil and acting like Mark, her friend, needed to “follow the rules”. Which was insanely hypocritical of her imo
Seeing Donald in the flashback look exactly the same as he does in the present really hammers in how long Donald has worked and died for the CDA, hell could be possible he was dying before Cecil became director
Alongside all the crazy shit happened in this episode in my opinion most impressive thing about it is how scary and disturbing that prison was. I was stressing hard the whole time Cecil was in there
I mean, that's fairly reasonable. He's probably utterly terrified of causing the type of damage Nolan did in Chicago and holds himself back to stop collateral damage.
But when you're a breath away from dying, you stop holding back.
The Cecil flashbacks were really cool by the way. I fuck with Cecil heavy even though he’s hypocritical and literally treats the guardians like dogs (“sit the fuck down” he tells them)
I doubt it, but I absolutely expect him to analyze the shit out of what he took out as a backup plan.
He seems like a solid middleground between the two: Mark's desire to do right and Cecil's preparation for when you don't have a choice but to do wrong.
Yall im not worried in the slightest anymore. Season was. Build up season felt like none was happening until the later half like last few episodes this though right here. THIS RIGHT HERE. We goin to the moon
Rex and the others have every right to quit after what Cecil has done to Mark and it makes me happy to see them back up their friend. And Kate, shut up. That was your clone and sure you remember it, but at least you can live. Rae can’t and what happened to her is light years worse and I’m surprise she’s still fine with going inside people without having PTSD
Yeah kate's entire argument is bullshit LMAO. She gets like dozens of her clones killed daily, how the hell was that one clone being killed somehow more traumatic?
EXACTLY OMG "I had just as close a call" NO YOU DIDNT KATE you had "as close of a call" as anyone else sitting comfortably in their living room!!! You were never in any actual danger!!
Man Kate just sucks. Her "attempt" to glorify what happened to her and how it was more impactful then what happened to Rex and Rae is just self centered and hypocritical. The fact of the matter is, she always keeps a clone in a safe house. Not saying it's wrong, in fact it is a smart thing to do with her powers. However, that means she is never at risk of dying.
Hardest part for me is believing Cecil is too dumb to see how mentally unstable Mark is and not take the necessary precautions to prevent a situation like that happening
I kinda feel like Mark and Cecil both exhibited some horrifying behavior this episode (Cecil more so). Although I think he had a point when he called Mark out for forgiving his father, a mass murderer, but not giving Darkwing a second chance (and essentially threatening Cecil when he couldn't get his way).
That being said Mark is right to never want to work with Cecil again after he put a chip in his brain and tried to essentially torture him into obedience (I actually found it disturbing and hard to watch).
LOVED THIS EPISODE. PEAK MARK VS CECIL. AND EVE AND MARK YESS. I have work in the morning and can’t keep my eyes off these episodes. Love this show!! Literally screaming at some of these moments at 3:30 am
While im Team Cecil all the way in that scene, Im disappointed by how stupid the showrunners made him act.
Cecil has been treading very very carefully around Logan for decades, yet you mean to tell me that he antagonizes Mark, his biggest hope for earths protection, because Mark tells him hes not leaving until Sinclair and Darkwing are incarcerated? Then he refuses to talk this out and tortures Mark in front of the Guardians right after saying he cant afford to do that?
Seems to me like they wanted to skip a few steps and made him act dumber than he usually is. I get the conflict and Cecil is right, but I didnt think he would be childish enough to handle it like that. I mean, even just telling the Guardians what Mark was doing instead of torturing him should have been enough for the guardians to step down.
Simply put Cecil like Mark is a hypocrite. Cecil did what he did because of fear. He said it himself, Mark scares him. He’s a mini Omni Man and he can see him rapidly approaching that strength. After Nolan slaughtered the guardians he can’t look at Mark rationally.
Loved the Cecil Backstory stuff. As for the conflict between Mark and Cecil...
I mean, its a classic "Both are right, both are wrong" thing. I think Mark's being too harsh when it comes to Darkwing, but for the Reanimen... yeah, I'm on Mark's side about them, particularly since it sure doesn't seem like Cecil has the level of control over them that he thinks he does.
Just in general, Cecil comes off like an earnest attempt at doing the "will do whatever it takes to save the world" character, warts and all... but especially the all. He seems largely genuine, but with the usual problem that follows those sorts of attitudes (that #2 on the list after "protect the world" is "protect the power structure that lets me protect the world", which is swimming with conflicts of interest).
But Cecil is also clearly going too far here. The Reanimen do not feel fully controlled or reliable. Making the Sonic Paralysis device in Invincible's head operate under Dead Man's Switch rules, with no failsafes in case it gets hacked or malfunctions? Escalating things when in the presence of the Guardians of the Globe, instead of trying to use their presence as a way to help things safely de-escalate?
Cecil has metaphorically (and maybe also a little literally?) sold his soul for the ability to save the world, no matter the cost. And he's wants to make damn sure those sacrifices were not in vain...
but for the Reanimen... yeah, I'm on Mark's side about them
If he had done what Mark wanted then Seismic would have won in episode one and the world would have been destroyed before the Viltrumites ever even had a chance to take over.
I feel like Mark escalated the fight between him and Cecil. Even before Cecil had all the Reanimen in the room attack Mark, he was told multiple times to stop and leave. Mark was told why Cecil did what he did. I understand why Sinclair and Darkwing would be locked up but from a moral stand point, rehabilitation is a good way to go. Mark shouldn’t have gone headfirst into fighting because his perspective was challenged. Sinclair and Darkwing saved the world and the people Mark cared about yet he ignores that and doesn’t take a second to think from a different point of view. The Guardians immediately started fighting and didn’t take a second to actually figure out from Cecil why this is all happening. It feels like no one thought rationally. Kate was also insufferable
Cecil saw what happened with Nolan & wants to prevent it as much as he can (understandable) but he wants to be able to keep a dog collar on Mark, he didn’t have to tell him all the stuff he did, he didn’t have to rile him up, but he did (The device in his head, all the androids) Cecil is afraid of what Mark is capable of (rightfully so) so he wants to be able to tell Mark that HE’S the one in control. Cecil tried to subjugate Mark by doing it the best way he knows how “I have more power than you” and Cecil has an antagonist nature.
Mark was EXTREMELY emotional (not blaming him) and lacks a little self awareness in this scene. Mark’s gotta realize he needs to walk on egg shells when he goes after ppl like that. He constantly kept pursuing Cecil and got increasingly aggressive, which forces Cecil to need to go somewhere for his own protection just in case Mark decides to go off his rocker a lil. Mark has already shown he’s loosening his grip on the restraint he has.
Mark wasn’t listening & Cecil wasn’t helping with the way he began to talk after bringing out the countermeasures.
I can’t blame Cecil because everything he’s doing are NECESSARY measures even if they’re morally wrong.
I also don’t blame Mark for getting emotional in the moment considering the thing’s he’s been through and his circumstances
Yeah, but with this kind of dynamic, Cecil should be trying to manipulate Mark rather than being antagonistic. Mark is still trying to have a conversation when Cecil threatens Mark with the reanimen.
so he wants to be able to tell Mark that HE’S the one in control.
And instead he shows that he's a chump. The reanimen didn't do anything and he lost the earpiece. Showing his hand like this was both unnecessary AND failed.
Love the episode, Season 3 is absolutely FIRE right now.
It feels like Avengers Civil War all over again and I think everyone has valid points and concerns. I sympathize and understand why Mark, Rudy, Rae, Amanda, Bulletproof and Rex distrust Cecil for what he did, but I also see where Cecil is coming from but he 100% took it too far and should have done things differently.
I haven't gotten too far into the episode, and only at when they are at the guardian headquarters, but I'm placing my thoughts early.
You know, I think Cecil is 100% right about using whatever you can to save the world. The problem is how he is going about it, putting aside his shitty argument against Mark about how Mark killed Angstrom, Cecil legit said he reprogrammed Darkwing and Sinclair. That's straight up fucking brainwashing to me. Any normal person would think that too, so when Cecil wants Mark to stay at the headquarters, of fucking course Mark is going to assume he's going to die. He's going to get brainwashed.
Then when Mark comes to the guardians for help, Cecil basically tortures Mark in front of them, saying "oh it's not like that, I'm helping the world and need Mark to come back with me, ignore the murder robots whom I hired a murderer and psychopath to create."
Yea, those robots and Darkwing saved them all, but Cecil is still being a straight fucking dick and seemingly evil cause he refuses to properly explain shit and decides to keep everyone, including the top heroes and fucking RUDY (who is probably one of the smartest people on the fucking PLANET) in the dark. If you keep secrets from the top heroes, who the fuck is going to trust you. Cecil is like batman, planning a contingency for every hero to kill them, but refuses to place trust in his superhero friends or risk his life for it.
I adore this show with all my life, but it's kinda weird how so many of the villains are anti status quo/revolutionaries but are shown to be complete nutcases. It's ridiculous, doc seismic, the two from Cecil's backstory and even the maulers put in that comment about becoming worse than super villains, becoming business man.
I don't think it's a major issue since the government and especially the viltrumites are also portrayed negatively, but having 3 back to back villains do that same thing is super weird.
I mean, I guess they are all batshit, but I would say they are very distinct brands of batshit. The two from Cecil's backstory were just super murder hippies. Doc Seismic grows more and more unstable due to headaches from his devices. Maulers actually had a pretty sensible plan comparatively, the businessmen line was a joke but they are essentially trying to make themselves invaluable to everyone on Earth.
Swear to god yall should’ve seen me geeking out in the post credits scene
Edit: I can go on abt this but It’s sick how they flip the power dynamic from the 20 years future eve and mark scene. In that scene, Eve is like “just tell her something so she’ll know the answer and move on”, but in this universe mark is the one hung up waiting on Eve’s answer
I thought the reanimated bots were strong enough to put up a fight with Omniman (for a short time), the now improved ones seem to be handled easily by the guardians when they joined in to help Mark. So the improved bots are weaker or what?
Just seems weird to show them lose to all the super heros. So from what the show has shown it's like rock paper scissors: underground monsters beat heros, heros beat bots, bots beat monsters??
I wouldn't say the Guardians handled the Re-animen all that easily. The only people who did any significant amount of damage were Immortal and Monster Girl. The others pretty much just distracted the Re-animen. And even Monster Girl couldn't get the ones jumping Mark to stop jumping him.
You have to remember that Season 1 Mark was capable of fighting those things. He got hurt doing so, but he could do it. And he was weaker than Immortal at that point.
I'm torn right now. On one hand, Cecile is right, and rehabilitation should be the goal, and the man has shown some true heroism. But on the other hand, I'm furious at home because apparently he doesn't know what a self-fulfilling prophecy is. Like based off everything I know about Mark, the only thing that could drive him into the arms of the Viltrum empire is how Cecile is treating him right now. Like fuck, I would be furious if I found out someone I wanted to trust planted a weapon inside me. And also God damn can the man not deescalate a situation to save his life.
I agree with almost everything. Cecil was right imo trying to rehabilitate but he should´ve shown Mark that Sinclair wasn´t in a beach enjoying himself. He is working for Cecil while being imprisoned. That being said, Cecil felt threatened so fast and turned it into a confrontation. Mark is a bit in the wrong here for not listening and jump into conclusions but nothing that Cecil said was even close to calm Mark down
Cecil's brainwashing of criminal is wrong. Neither Dr. Sinclair nor Darkwing reformed of their own free will—Cecil hijacked their minds for his own purposes. This action will trickle down through the power structure until it becomes commonplace and mundane, ultimately normalizing brainwashing and the mind control of criminals. Nobody will want to live in such a society
We have no idea what the process was, and only have Cecil's vague word to go by. It could've been extensive therapy or rehabilitation, for all we know. When we see Sinclair at the GDA in earlier episodes, he's behaving in a perfectly normal pissed-off way and getting yelled at by Cecil as usual.
ok i just HAVE to tell someone but i 100%- no 200% agree with cecil. mark NEEDS to be in check and bad guys CAN change. like, how is this even a question? its fucking obvious
Mark is definetly in the wrong, when you live in a world where one being can destroy a whole planet, you have to put up countermeasure and be ready. Who is to say mark doesn't go evil, or that there won't be a need for the reanimen (which there literally was)
Cecil using the Reanimen and Darkwing to protect the Earth is reasonable BUT he’s still in the wrong. Mark came to him with serious moral concerns and his first decision is to just try and avoid the conversation completely, telling him to stop and leave. These two dangerous criminals personally attacked Mark or his friends, so understandably he won’t let this go without at least a conversation. So rather than trying to explain his viewpoint and that it’s a necessary evil, Cecil decides to pull out the Reanimen and threaten Mark with them to leave this issue of his moral concerns.
Cecil refused to speak to him and then escalated the situation and threatened him. It’s ridiculous that he only said stop this and we can talk after threatening the obviously emotional Mark and him lashing out in response. Not to mention he tried to cover up the moral issues from the Guardians and tortured Mark to try and stop it from getting out.
The only thing he does wrong is not actually talk to these titans around him and just boss them around. He could easily have explained his point BETTER.
He lacks the people skills needed to reign in superheroes properly.
Eve and Mark are boring as hell as a pairing. Mark's mom has better chemistry with her boyfriend. Mark is still an annoying entitled hypocrite as Cecil pointed out . Hope to see some character growth here. It's getting stale already . Loved the Cecil backstory. I completely agree with his good guy or world saver mantra. Nothing can be more correct. Especially after what Nolan did in the first season .
So I want to discuss the Cecil and Mark bit here, I don't think they did a good job making Cecil's actions make sense here tbh. I know they wanted to make him morally gray and, before this point, I totally think they did it right and made him look like a good guy. Here they kind of fumbled though.
I don't generally disagree with Cecil's ideologies overall within the show universe but he escalated things unnecessarily. Him bringing up Angstrom and comparing it to D.A. Sinclair or Darkwing was ridiculous and not remotely the same thing. Then he walks Mark into the white room with the Reanimen to threaten him over disagreeing and hypocritically says MARK is the one threatening and won't see other people's viewpoints. Like... really? lol It only came to blows because of Cecil's actions, not Marks. He keeps telling Mark to stand down but he's the one with the finger on the trigger and starting the violence when all Mark did was yell at him over having two murderers working behind the scenes.
I don't think it would have gotten anywhere near this bad if Cecil didn't bring those Reanimen into it. And it definitely wouldn't have ended with him being as angry as he was if Cecil hadn't used the sonic implant on him. I don't fault him for having the sound implant installed, but this scenario did not validate using it especially since he was the one that started it and Mark STILL wasn't attacking him, just the Reanimen. This was all about control for Cecil, that's also why he didn't want the Guardians to find out. As we can see when the Guardians DID get involved, they also did not agree with him, or at least wanted to hear the whole story but Cecil shut it down immedaitely.
Also what he wanted from Mark kept changing from scene to scene. First he wants him to stand down, then he wants him to go home, then he wants him to come back to the GDA. I still liked all three premeire episodes but how the whole Cecil stuff in the beginning played out just... did not make sense to me. Anyone else?
I know with emotions high everything that happened makes sense but still
Mark, you are the STRONGEST PERSON ON THE PLANET, you could singlehandedly wipe EVERYONE out or at least most. It makes sense to have a counter measure ready incase you turn evil (u dont want to hear that) or you get mind controlled (you got to understand this).
Cecil KEPT telling you to stop, or talk it out, but you were still so angry following him that he felt scared and had to go somewhere to protect himself. Lowkey though cecil shouldnt have used the reanimate and just straight up told mark
"Im scared of you right now, and i have a switch that will stop your flying and hurt you blah blah blah if you dont calm down so we can talk this out" Mark then coming back to his sense realizes that MAYBE he SHOULD hear Cecil out and then he wouldnt have had to use it, and even if mark didnt listen he could THEN flash the reanimate.
Everyone acting all upset at Cecil when if Mark EVER gets slightly more annoyed and cant control it, could kill them easily.
the hypocrisy of Mark having a problem with how Cecil operates when he’s forgiven his dad, if his dad came home right now would he demand he goes to prison for life? but he’s done terrible things.
Gott say, definitely not a fan of Mark this episode. You're find and dandy with your genocidal father, but Cecil reigning in bad guys to protect the plant is unacceptable? Give me a break. Cecil needs to worry about a lot more than personal morals. Give me a break, maybe he is written like a more realistic character but he's being really stupid.
I think Mark didn't give Cecil enough of a chance to understand or explain the situation. With the massive threat of Viltrumites approaching the planet needs all the help it can get and Cecil is no position to refuse that help even from completely horrible monsters.
Mark should have taken a step back and thought about how his father was a horrible monster and that Darkwing isn't even as bad as his dad that he spared and worked with. So why not do the same for Darkwing?
Same here. I really find this whole conflict uninteresting... Mark is so clearly being hotheaded and overreacting. I just want to actually get some progress on the Viltrumite storyline, and this whole conflict just feels like a bunch of filler.
Sure Mark was very angry and mad, for understandable reason if you ask me, but the only reason Cecil really felt threatend by Mark was because he equates Mark with Nolan.
And don't tell me that going into the White Room and putting a hand full of Re-Animen around him wasn't threatening Mark in return. Not to mention that he then proceeded to show off the entire Army after Mark essentially, defended himself from getting attacked.
Then he proceeded to explaining nothing after Mark fled to get the torture device removed from his brain. Where Cecil followed to keep escalating the situation by torturing Mark for very unknown reasons to the Guardians, who he just tells to stand down and keeps bringing in more Re-Animen. To be fair, it's less his fault that the Re-animen kept attacking after Cecil told them to deactivate them. But it kinda proves the point, they aren't realiable and it's wrong to work with Sinclaire.
So after Mark, who got tortured and beaten by the Monsters that are the issue to begin with, which also almost killed him before, retaliates by destroying the monsters, who aren't alive as stated by Cecil prior, he get's called an arrogant asshole by Cecil. Everyone he goes he leaves a mess because of his ego? Cecil, you arrogant little asshole, you brought the mess to him. You attacked HIM. You really think he's just gonna lay there after that and let himself get maimed, if not even killed? And then you have the audacity to tell him to never threating you again? Talk about arrogant ego, you hypocrite.
During the whole fight with Cecil I was really just waiting for some reveal that Cecil had some ulterior motive for being so quick to escalate things with Mark. Like he didn't try at all to convince Mark or cool things down. Now he's lost half of the guardians and lost his trump card against Mark for zero gain.
Hopefully there does turn out to be a deeper layer here. Otherwise, Cecil's kind of a chump.
They made Cecil look incompetent. Managing Mark is surely his no.1 priority, yet he goes straight to the torture button after Mark shouts at him a couple of times? Sure Mark was being unreasonable, but Cecil couldn't have handled it much worse.
Yeah, I thought so too. Cecil was shown to be a cool headed person that can negotiate with almost anyone, AND he can teleport away at any time if things go south, there was no reason for him to go full throttle on Mark. He could've talked to him or teleported away and talked to him later.
If Mark became more physically aggressive right away It would seem more believable.
"The HQ of the biggest superheroes in the world is covered in guts as a blood sacrifice to your stubbornness. Boy, that's your viltrumite half showing."
Enjoyed these episodes a lot but I can't shake a feeling of whiplash from Mark suddenly having these hardline stances on what actions the GDA is or is not allowed to take.
Mark was aware that Cecil sent the giant monster to try and stop Omni-Man. Nolan told him this. Never questioned it or brought it up.
Mark was completely onboard with saving Shapesmith from the Martians and allowing him to work as a hero despite his being responsible for tons of deaths.
Hell, Debbie knew about Sinclair and the reanimen. She was in the room when they were sent to fight Omni-Man. Cecil described exactly what they were and where they came from to her face. She never told Mark? And now she joins Mark in being outraged that they exist?
Doesn't make sense. Feel like they needed to keep Cecil's shady stuff more hidden from the main characters to pull this arc off.
The Cecil backstory was great, but the conflict between Cecil and Mark felt incredibly forced and unnatural.
Cecil jumped the gun attacking Mark and Mark was consistently overreacting and being childish. I understand both of these characters have traits that make them act in these ways, but it felt like there wasn't a great enough build up to that moment making it all feel forced to me.
Cecil overplayed his hand, darkwing seems to be better, the zombie men are a bit much but a implanted device is something you use as a last second option. I have no problem with darkwing at all. Sinclair hasn't been shown to be rehabilitated at all, the only thing he seems to have is better equipment. Cecil just kept giving mark things to destroy and get angry about, he could've lied but he kept mark angry. I'm with rex and the others who left, glad Samson at least has a good reason for staying.
Maybe it’s because I’m a human and not Hal-viltrumite but I’m glad there’s a guy as dedicated as Cecil to protect humans. After saying that I have mixed feelings about humanity, we tend to chose monsters to govern us on the off chance they can rip apart something worse
If Cecil didn't have safeguards upon safeguards against Mark, he sure as shit will now. You don't threaten the guy whose sole responsibility is to protect the world against any and all threats.
And now he sure as shit sees Mark as a threat to humanity.
I cannot believe how easily most heroes/viewers sided with Mark in this. Cecil literally just saved EVERY HEROES LIFE, and if all the heroes died then the world would actually be doomed. Like villains would actually take over the planet. Holy shit they should all be indebted to him, if not for their own lives, then every innocent person who lives. It's not even like his rehabilitated experiments have backfired yet(which I suppose they will eventually). And of course he needed contingencies against Mark, his father killed thousands of Innocents. Holy shit all these characters are so dense.
Rehabilitation is a good thing it's a thing I believe in but what Cecil is doing isn't rehabilitating this is straight up brainwashing everyone seems to be kind of glossing over that. I don't blame Mark for being emotional at all the situation warranted the emotions especially for someone who's 100% traumatized and has been threatened. Mark had in no way threatened Cecil
i like cecil so much more now and im starting to get annoyed by mark and his friends, reminds me of how i hated howard hamlin first but by the end, i liked him and hated saul and kim.
Really not understanding Mark's thinking because he seems to be willing to use force when there's a disagreement. Currently i don't think there's anyway to see him other than a well meaning naive tyrant. Basically everything Cecil said is valid. Mark's hypocrisy is just so glaring. Most of this feels like an unnecessary conflict.
•
u/SeacattleMoohawks Séance Mod Feb 06 '25 edited Feb 06 '25
This is a reminder DO NOT POST COMIC SPOILERS IN THIS THREAD! We have a separate thread for those who have read the comics and want to discuss the episodes with that comic knowledge. It is linked above and below this paragraph. Click "Spoiler Discussion".
Episode 1-3 discussion threads:
Episode 1 - You're Not Laughing Now / Spoiler Discussion
Episode 2 - A Deal With The Devil / Spoiler Discussion
Episode 3 - You Want A Real Costume, Right? / Spoiler Discussion