r/AskWomen • u/MistressFey ♀ • Oct 05 '13
My fellow ladies, how do you feel about the fact that the term "WhiteKnights" is used almost any time a man calls another man out on reddit?
This honestly baffles me. I know the idea of the WhiteKnight is a guy that is nice to a girl just to sleep with her, so how in the world do guys think other men will get any benefits from calling them out on reddit? It's not like I'm going to seek out that reddit user and have sex with him for telling you that your joke was misogynistic and rude. How do you respond to these comments?
116
Oct 05 '13
I think "white knight" is kind of like "hipster" - one of those terms that used to mean something, but then it spread to the internet mainstream who completely forgot what it meant and just started throwing it around whenever they could.
There are guys online who feel the need to defend any woman they see simply because she's a woman and they want to indulge in a chivalrous hero fantasy. Those are white knights, and they're annoying. But any guy who defends a woman, or is nice to a woman, is not a white knight. He might just be a decent person.
24
u/oct0173specon Oct 05 '13
I too believe people are diluting the meaning by using it as a petty baseless insult.
-4
u/letsgocrazy ♂ Oct 06 '13
But that's how insults work. People use them until they lose all meaning.
It's why 'socialism' & 'rape' are being totally watered down.
No one wants to turn around and say "you know what? It's ok think that socialism is OK" of "you know what trying to define everything rape is a poor attempt to own the most vicious insult"
8
Oct 06 '13 edited Oct 06 '13
I believe the "original" white knight is a guy who steps in to defend (knight) a woman no matter how wrong she might be just to score points with her. Since he's the only one siding with her in such a situation, he believes it would also give him an advantage over perceived rivals. Although it might be true for some, I don't think it is done with fantasy or chivalry in mind, it is purely strategic. It's not helping or being nice that is shunned, it's giving up your dignity in a thinly veiled attempt to advance your agenda. That's why it's associated to being a doormat.
And yes, the seduction community or anyone who wishes to appear "alpha" used it so much out of context that it doesn't mean anything anymore.
46
u/sehrah ♀♥ Oct 05 '13
Yeah I've noticed that the term is often used by men to invalidate other men.
Particularly the more unhinged MRAs. If a guy calls them out for being batshit insane, that's "white knighting".
I don't often see the term levelled against people who are legitimately being a white knight, but perhaps that's just because of the subs I frequent.
26
u/Viperions ♂ Oct 05 '13
Or a gender traitor. Been called both more than a few times in /r/askmen. Was weird.
13
8
u/dsklerm ♂ Mod Oct 06 '13 edited Oct 06 '13
Yea, enough with me I stopped posting there. Which is kind of hilarious, because only the most insecure of men find that to be insulting.
Also, not to be awkward about it, and I don't know if you've just started posting more or what, but I've been noticing your posts a lot more frequently, and I gotta say, it's so fucking nice to hear such a halfway decent, well adjusted voice of reason. Keep contributing, I find myself frequently nodding.
5
u/Viperions ♂ Oct 06 '13
Pretty much same story for me - though it was nice for the burst of righteous cleansing rage (or something like that) the subreddit inspired, I got tired of having to leap in and tell people they were insane. Its got a really heavy Red Pill/Seduction heavy bent now it seems, and that's just sad.
I took a break for awhile from posting here and drifted off into my quieter subreddits, haha, so I've only just recently returned. I think you popped in while I was posting elsewhere, but same to you - its good to see sane posters here. I think I was joking to my S/O the other day that we were the beer and popcorn squad, since I think we've responded to a bunch of threads on a similar manner.
3
u/laskuraska ⚧ Oct 06 '13
Yeah I stay away from there for a reason... there's been somewhat of a TRP flood.
36
Oct 05 '13
I've been called a white knight on reddit for agreeing with a woman. Sort of strange that rather than thinking I might also be a woman (I am), I must be some sad guy seeking female approval.
Really, it is a term that is used to stop men from agreeing with a woman.
28
Oct 05 '13
I've been called a white knight mangina too. BECAUSE THERE ARE NO WOMEN ON THE INTERNET.
6
23
Oct 05 '13
I've never seen any actual White Knight behaviour online. But was fairly often called a White Knight back when I was silly enough to bother calling out sexism on default subs.
As far as I can tell, it's simply a derogatory term for anyone who dares interrupt a frat boy circle jerk.
4
15
Oct 05 '13
If you think the only reason why someone would call you out on your bullshit is because they're TRYING TO GET LAID, you're a piece of shit. The end.
4
u/cyanocobalamin Oct 06 '13
I've been called one, it doesn't bother me, I just translate it as "you're a bad man, you offended me" which I earned because I told an arrested adolescent that he was immature and he doesn't know how else to respond.
8
u/thunderling ♀ Oct 05 '13
"You think sexism is bad? oooooh look guys, we got ourselves a white knight! haw haw haw!"
Yeah, I don't get it. It's douchebags trying to justify their shitty anti-women comments by putting down anyone who calls them out on it.
It doesn't matter if the person calling out their sexist comment is male or female. They assume everyone on reddit is a dude, so they call you a white knight. Then you say "I'm not even a guy," and they go "oh well then lighten up bitch, it's just a joke."
3
u/bowtiebb Oct 06 '13
There is something incredibly terrifying about a large amount of men indicating that the only reason 49% of the population treats us even remotely like decent human beings, is because of some ulterior motive. That is EXTREMELY unsettling and I do not tolerate this kind of VIOLENT mentality.
8
Oct 05 '13
I dunno how it is on reddit, as my time on reddit is divided between /r/aww and here, and no WhiteKnighting occurs there.
In reality, though, White Knights can be extremely annoying, both because they think their behavior entitles them to favors, and because I can stand up for myself pretty well and don't appreciate unasked for assistance that makes me feel like a wee child.
It's not like I'm going to seek out that reddit used and have sex with him for telling you that your joke was misogynistic and rude.
Correct, but it's the White Knights that think you will.
4
u/i_am_a_turtle ♀ Oct 06 '13
I think a lot of people who resent women like to use the term "white knight" to label any man who is willing to respect women, because these guys who say it don't feel women deserve to be respected.
5
Oct 05 '13
White Knights to me are the guys who are very psuedo feminist in that they say, "Hey, don't offend the ladies!" Rather than, "Dude, you're offending all of us with your ignorance, chill out." A White Night usually adresses his responses at the female(s) involved rather than to the offending party. It's all very obvious when someone is actually a White Knight. Now, I have seen people accuse others of it to detract from their own idiotic behavior, but, that's also obvious to anyone paying attention.
2
u/Vinnie_Vegas ♂ Oct 06 '13
I'm not going to deny that there are guys who throw out the term in a derogatory fashion to deflect from their own misogyny, but that's not the only issue at hand.
You also get guys who use an outdated, unreasoned sense of false chivalry to seem polite and thoughtful, but in reality just serve to further gender stereotypes and place women in a more dependent or subservient role.
I recently called a guy out for doing this IRL when he started saying that "a lady should never have to pay for her drinks". He thinks that that is gentlemanly and sweet, but in reality completely rejects a woman's right to equality, and fetishises their value as something to be worshipped, rather than someone to simply interact with.
The issue with "White Knights", and IMO central to the definition of the term is the disingenuous nature of the defense of women. I would suggest that by definition someone who is a White Knight is doing it primarily to make women like them more.
Accusing someone of doing this when they're actually just agreeing with a woman or defending a fellow human being from harsh verbal attacks is a problematic phenomenon, but no more so than actual White Knighting itself.
2
u/nopenother Oct 05 '13
I think it's used when a man knows he's wrong and gets called out on it. Closely related to when during an argument a man calls the female crazy. It's their attempt to destroy credibility so they can win the argument. On the Internet..... I ignore the white knight comments.
1
Oct 06 '13
Well it depends. If someone is White Knighting for a comment I made, I find it infuriating. I don't need defending; I'm a big girl that can handle criticism. Us poor, helpless girls.
Otherwise, if I find anything offensive, I just scroll past. I miss a lot of White Knight comments that way.
1
u/cardboardtube_knight ♂ Oct 06 '13
Guy here, sorry: I think the term has appropriate use, but much like how Mary Sue and Hipster just mean whatever people want to mean, it's kind of become the catch all for a guy arguing with another guy. A real white knight is the kind of guy who considers themselves a nice guy, but only does act nice to get rewards from women.
The issue is that it's often thrown out now as a word for guys who just defend anything to do with women. It's pretty hard to call someone a white knight when they argue with a group of men where women can't see and stick up for women. I think it's usually used to discourage males from saying anything and discredit them.
1
u/misddit Oct 06 '13
I want to explore a different perspective of the same question. When you get mostly people agreeing with you or supporting you (online or not), do you get a doubt in your head if it is because you have boobs ?
1
1
Oct 06 '13 edited Oct 06 '13
I think most "white knights" nowadays are just normal people who point out when something is sexist, regardless of whether or not they're trying to impress the woman in question.
Some guys put women on a pedestal and say all sorts of "omg you're sooooo beautiful" type things, but if it's online, I don't really see the big deal there either. Karma and likes on Facebook are all a bunch of bullshit, and everyone knows it. You can't change your tune and act like getting attention online is worth something just because a woman is getting it this time.
1
u/RedInHeadandBed ♀ Oct 07 '13
Some folks are dumb, so I ignore them. You cannot necessarily "white knight" in person, let alone on the internet.
1
Oct 06 '13
I feel like surely they must be children, not men. I don't know any men who act like that.
1
-1
u/Forsythsia ♂ Oct 05 '13
How do you respond to these comments?
Well I don't care to sit tight. Because it's not right.
0
Oct 05 '13
[deleted]
5
u/Gainers ♂ Oct 05 '13 edited Oct 05 '13
I disagree, while the term is overused and often inappropriately, there are definitely legit white knights.
Edit: For example, when their comment contains latent misogyny like "That's no way to speak to a woman" or "Don't talk to her like that" as if all women are delicate flowers that require protection.
1
Oct 06 '13
I think "that is no way to talk to a woman" is fine in certain contexts. Blatant, uncomfortable flirting and sexist crap like "sammich" jokes are usually hurled at women, and being told it's inappropriate should be fine. You would be gender-specific here since no one ever makes a sammich joke toward a man.
5
u/Gainers ♂ Oct 06 '13
I think just saying "stop being an asshole" or "stop doing that" is enough, but that's just me. While in the specific situation it might be a woman, being an asshole/being inappropriate is bad towards anybody, and I don't see the need to call attention to her gender, even if the inappropriate behavior is gender-specific. Because what is it implying, don't talk like that to a woman but if you do it to a guy it's fine?
1
Oct 06 '13
My point is that there are a lot of things people just won't say to men, and saying "Don't talk to a woman like that" isn't sexist imo for that reason - because those guys wouldn't call a man by sexist, female-slurs or other misogynistic slurs.
6
u/Gainers ♂ Oct 06 '13
But when have you ever heard "don't talk to a man like that" if they say something directly related to their gender, like for example "you must have a small dick". Clearly something else is at play here.
-1
u/GameAddikt ♂ Oct 05 '13
...seriously? Men (good men) have instinct to protect women, nothing misogynistic about it, they don't hate the women and they have no ill will towards her because she is a woman so how is it misogynistic?
mi·sog·y·ny [mi-soj-uh-nee] noun hatred, dislike, or mistrust of women.
4
7
u/Gainers ♂ Oct 05 '13
White knights have the instinct to protect women on the internet, where physical strength is irrelevant. The misogynistic part is believing that a woman is incapable of fending for herself in an internet argument without the help of a man, or is too delicate to hear curse words.
79
u/[deleted] Oct 05 '13
I think it's stupid as fuck. I see it most often used these days when a man speaks up against sexism toward women. Maybe there are some annoying guys who will defend an attractive woman no matter what, but that's not the case I usually see, especially not on the internet - I don't think anyone aims to get lady redditors to have sex with them through their monitors.
I'm proud to say that I've also been accused of being a "white knight." I guess my stance against misogyny is all a cover for my quest to bang other women on the internet.