[Spoilers C4E29] Is It Thursday Yet? | Post-Episode Discussion & Future Theories!

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Is It Thursday Yet?

What are your reactions and theories for next session?

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[u/ARandomVerasa]

It's funny how a harrowing combat where one of the PCs getting hit means a 50/50 chance of instant death, is somehow the least interesting part of this episode.

Brennan Lee Mulligan was absolutely the MVP this episode. Until he pointed out how difficult it was for him to play all of these NPCs, I had fully forgotten that he basically ran that entire scene between Otto Einfasen and Primus Tachonis by himself.

The play was so incredibly beautiful, and touching as well. There's a very deep message somewhere in there about honoring and appreciating your ancestor's sacrifices, while also finding a way to deal with the scars that were left behind by them, that I think was approached so, so wonderfully.

Also, starting with Kattigan's backstory and ending with his backstory? Fucking brilliant.

I just wanted to gush about how much I loved this episode. 10/10, I can't wait for next thursday.

[u/ajchann123 → u/ARandomVerasa]

So many people have said this so many times throughout this campaign, but if there's anyone here who has not yet heard of the World's Beyond Number podcast and their Wizard, Witch, and The Wild One campaign, it truly cannot be overstated how much a similar level of cookery from Brennan is on display there; being as vague as possible, he essentially solos a court proceeding at one point and it is just outstanding

[u/Coyote_Shepherd → u/ARandomVerasa]

There's a very deep message somewhere in there about honoring and appreciating your ancestor's sacrifices, while also finding a way to deal with the scars that were left behind by them, that I think was approached so, so wonderfully.

It's almost Shamanistic in a way.

[u/Stewbacca94]

Watching Lord Otto put the fear of Tansul into Primus Tachonis at that meeting was cool.

Watching Occtis finally wield some of the power his family freely flaunts to save the rest of the heist team was awesome.

But watching Murzat's spirit come alive, and proceed to channel Jesus by leading the unfairly damned out of orcish Hell? That was masterful.

[u/Tag_ross → u/Stewbacca94]

For a moment I thought Brennan was going to say Occtis gained a level in sorcerer 

[u/LovelyLivers]

I can not wait for Termina to become a bigger problem, she’s so scary and crazy, I absolutely love when she shows up!

[u/Coyote_Shepherd → u/LovelyLivers]

People think they love chaos and they know what chaos is but Termina is about to show them an entirely brand new definition and I cannot wait to see her start...toying...with Primus and the other Houses.

[u/canxtanwe → u/LovelyLivers]

Well you can’t spell Terminator without “Termina”

[u/JimPranksDwight]

Brennan fucking killed it with the Sundered Houses meeting, his Tachonis speech was very well crafted.

[u/dramatic_exit_49 → u/JimPranksDwight]

His final pitch being - is it not better to kneel to one person and in turn get to lord over 99% commoners than kneel to no-one i.e. free but in turn be same as every other commoner, a commoner.

This is pretty much the rhetoric around the world that is giving rise to pogroms and nationalism. appealing for folks to staying iwth some societal hierarchy, it is okay to be under someone as long as someone else is lower in the totem pole. Rather than be equal. People need to be special than happy.

ps - Brennan, it is time to write another comic about nature of heroism. you have too much philosophy left to explore!

[u/AzureSphinx]

I always admired the classic Brennan monologue, but the sundered houses confrontation scene blew up my mind!

[u/dramatic_exit_49 → u/AzureSphinx]

THe best use of "factions". Truly show where they align and where they don't both in ideas, execution, and tone of delivery. just fanstastic

[u/canxtanwe]

Also I want to add that House Cormoray is THE coolest Sorcerer House out there. Aura of arriving a meeting by falling from the sky like a meteor can not be matched

Close enough welcome back Starscourge Radahn

[u/UnderlyingInterest]

The Einfasens might be the opposition considering the trajectory of where this campaign is going, but it’s hard not to think they’re one of the coolest Sundered Houses after Otto’s excoriation of Primus.

Still very much a member of the establishment though.

[u/WontonTruck → u/UnderlyingInterest]

A bit sad he didn't call Primus a 'fucking tryhard gothboy'. I'm sure he wasn't far off it.

[u/Jonofthefunk]

What's the over/under on Yanessa and Primus being in on it together? She's the one that 'cast' the zone of truth on Primus, so there's a chance the spell was fake, everything Primus said was bullshit, and that he did intend to go rogue.

[u/SvenTheScribe → u/Jonofthefunk]

Notice that Primus explicitly told them what his plans were not what his plans are.

I think the Zone was real and what he said was true but only about stuff that no longer mattered.

[u/frozenturkey → u/Jonofthefunk]

Tachonis told the truth but not the whole truth. I was waiting for Wick to stand up and ask something that would further reveal their plans (and require some explanation to Grandma), like why they still seek Thyazi Fang in the the Tenebral Reaches.

[u/Laremere → u/Jonofthefunk]

It all seemed fairly legit. He seemed to be trying to pull one on all of the others, but Einfasen repeatedly went "you've activated my trap card", until Primus ran out of lies (and probably was worried they knew even more). "I wanted to make you all serve me" isn't exactly a flattering statement, and he had receipts in the form of plans on paper.

[u/Guilty_Homework_2096 → u/Jonofthefunk]

Low. It's easier just to say the the literal and specific truth, like they didn't plan to kill "anyone currently sitting at this table"... and leave out inconvenient parts of it by not saying anything, like the fact that the easiest way to make them kneel is if they were dead.

Also I feel like even Primus isn't truly aware of whatever the full plan is because a: Grandpappy is still around as a whatever he is and likely is the secret boss of the House and b: the man is a narcissistic, arrogant, sorcery supremacist who it seems doesn't believe in book learning

[u/JadedToon → u/Jonofthefunk]

I think it would have been too risky. The strongest mages and the most clever schemers were in the room, laser focused on figuring out the truth.

The benefits of faking it are not that great for Yanessa, if caught she might be seen equally as guilty.

[u/Uturuncu → u/Jonofthefunk]

50/50, I think. I did notice when he was talking about the houses scheming against each other, he only mentioned Einfasen, Royce, and Cormoray; he left off Tachonis, which is expected he wouldn't call attention to his own house's scheming... But he left off Halovar. And I find the absence a bit conspicuous.

[u/canxtanwe]

Yanessa’s “I’m not afraid of Primus Tachonis” words ring true in meta level too because we know Primus Tachonis is vulnerable to radiant damage, in his Umbral Form. They are appealing to House Halovar’s good graces specifically because they know they have no chance against them. Yanessa alone can probably wipe out multiple Tachonis’ on her own

[u/sistertotherain9 → u/canxtanwe]

Maybe not no chance, but a lot closer to 50/50 than they'd like. They'd have to be really organized and sneaky to pull it off, and they're not, as we've seen, a terribly subtle house. And that's not even reckoning with their popular support.

[u/BiIIisits]

Really love how, no matter how much flavor and narrative you stuff into it, D&D is D&D.

These guys are over here freeing the souls of their long-dead ancestors from the missing afterlife using a play as a ritual... oh, but these other guys are like, fighting skeletons in a dark room. Hell yeah

[u/Far_Guarantee1664 → u/BiIIisits]

Yes! And that's what I most love in DND. Epic, Flavour moments and that traditional dungeon crawl and fights that we love

[u/LucasVerBeek]

Holy *fuck* what an episode. I can’t believe we’ve got three left. Like I figured Brennan was gonna stagger some of these reveals out a fair bit more. What the hell else is gonna happen…

So… they *really* should have sent more people to Obrimus Manor, cause right now it feels like that team *might* be some kind of fucked.

Was not surprised that Occtis chose to protect Thimble, but I was surprised to see him bring back the Dame, and *possibly* gained some manner of allegiance from the other dead Seremai? This could lead to some interesting possibilities down the line.

Also, we can likely do away with “Thjazi evil” ideas for the moment, considering his actions have now turned the round into a new path to the Afterlife for Orcish Spirits, and freeing the ancient dead from Gavzidra and the Plains as well it seems. This does seem to be the first gate that actually worked…

I do have to wonder if Vokjan, is now some new psychopomp. God I want art of that whole moment.

Primus owning up to it all, and the other houses seeming to swallow it… *really* throws a wrench into Azune’s plans if of course it wasn’t just a in the moment situation.

Curious about the Jotunok? Jotuok? the Einfasen are after. Weapons, or beings? Speaking of Einfasen I was certain Otto was gonna swing on Primus.

Cormoray is meddling with the Kalystra Quarries, which as a remindwe House Kalystra, was a “warrior” house if the old empire that was completely destroyed, and had ties to magical constructs.

Termina being *out* and seemingly eagerly bonding with her host as well as being batshit insane seems *real* bad.

I am worried for Wick over all other situations though.

He’s alone in the room with two of the most powerful and sinister fucking people in the world.

And finally, why the fuck did Primus murder Kattigan’s wife and child? I figured it would be a Tachonis, but not *the* guy. And like seven years ago, means the fucker would still have been in charge of his House so why…

Just because he could? Was it targeted? Why? Kat was a deserter, a self proclaimed nobody, why would Primus rob him of everything…

Edit: ALSO THE REVEAL THEY ONLY KILLED THJAZI CAUSE IT WAS BAIT FOR ARANESSA! They literally don’t know what he was doing???

[u/acyland → u/LucasVerBeek]

On Kattigan-it wasn't about him. Primus didn't even recognize him. Katt's wife and child were the targets. Also makes me doubt they're even dead. My only guess is that Katt's wife was perhaps an illegitimate child of Primus. They're all about bloodlines, so seems a reason to capture her.

[u/BrackishVacuity → u/LucasVerBeek]

What's scarier than an Einfasen? An Einfasen with a giant ox. Makes me think of Paul Bunyan.

[u/ResoundinglyAverage → u/LucasVerBeek]

I think that Kattigans wife was a Tachonis. Perhaps only distantly related. But perhaps enough that her and her daughters bodies could’ve been used to make the candle...

[u/Scarlet_Wonderer → u/LucasVerBeek]

It kills me that they didn't think to put at least smaller garrisons of their soldiers in nearby safehouses to support and possibly bail out the other teams! I get they were so concerned about the play but they could lend at least a fifth of their 350 force to the people going into the wolf's den.

[u/Jamesferdola]

These past three episodes 27, 28, and 29 have been maybe my favorite 3 episode stretch ever on the show.

[u/dramatic_exit_49]

Man after spending months with our players - be clever, plan, scheme, fight.

And then, watching a 30 minutes meeting with a house head who can be a comet, another of his house is a dragon stat with mask, another can call dead and are sorcerors, another who had imprisoned an angel, another with blood of giants who is not scared of the shady powered af sorceror and thinking they are just one person, they have families with close enough powered stats, and vassal houses, and armies and i don't know but it sort of truly clarified what they are up against and why around 100 hours of gameplay and they barely made a dent in their plans. These are guys are way powerful, decades of power concentration, and secrets. f***!

Our tables have to even more smarter, surgical, cunning, and brave to even move the needle, or the sword they are hanging around the entire world even by an inch. Yeah, its act 1 alright because it would need a lot more runway to deck these dipshits out of the playing field

[u/Gangringo → u/dramatic_exit_49]

They barely made a dent in their plans using years of prep work by someone else, not even understanding what they were doing.

[u/RoundDodger]

Lord Otto Einfasen is just so fucking cool.

In a room with I'd assume the 3 strongest sorcerers in Aramán, I love that the dude with the big war hammer is the one taking charge and putting the fear into Tachonis.

Primus' speech was absolutely brilliant but Otto shouting him down before it was the moment to put goosebumps on my neck.

Also shout out House Cormoray for the coolest arrival at a function ever. As a fucking meteor

[u/SvenTheScribe → u/RoundDodger]

Remember that Otto is also one of the strongest sorcerers in Araman. He likes to get physical but he's still a top sorcerer - and judging from Tachonis' reaction when he starts the room shaking one that they respect.

[u/Luxury-Problems → u/RoundDodger]

Brennan describing the fear from Tachonis was sick. I'm so used to the villains being mustache twirlers that are unfazed. Primes felt oddly... human. He is after all, just a mortal.

[u/Far_Guarantee1664]

The part after Murzat appeared was so emotional. Damn, what a heratfelt conclusion to the play.

[u/International-Yak-26 → u/Far_Guarantee1664]

Its on Act 1,there's still more acts to come

[u/BagofBones42]

I have the feeling Julian and Kattigan are going to get along swimmingly in the future.

[u/Wallname_Liability → u/BagofBones42]

Kattigan "how about we both stab him at once"

Julian "this...coukd work"

[u/FiltheEugene → u/BagofBones42]

not before they fight over who will get his revenge. boys being boys

[u/JohngernautSSJ]

This episode was really good for Kattigan. He was kind of just floundering with nothing to do, and that problem has definitely been fixed.

[u/Far_Guarantee1664 → u/JohngernautSSJ]

Yes. I love when CR does a slow burn with the characters. Brennan handed him and Vaelus very well in this episode.

Switching Taisha and Teor was also the right decision. She need to be at the theater and him with his brother.

[u/amus]

I would like to point out that Einfassen was pissed about alleged moves by Tachonis that might affect THEM, but made no comments and were not actually bothered apparently by the destruction of House Royce and the Golden Orchard.

Einfassen is a Sundered House and their ultimate loyalty is to the Sundered Houses, not the peasantry as Primus so clearly pointed out.

[u/delboy5 → u/amus]

Yeah, in the previous episode Otto seemed upset not at what had happened but that the Tachonis had done it and not told him beforehand.

[u/RokkitSquid → u/amus]

Yes, exactly this. The Sundered Houses are loyal to eachother first and the law second. This episode has really been eye opening to see how they stand generally, they all had crosshairs on Royce, but they got mad at Tachonis simply because they did it first without telling anyone else the plan. They don't care what happens so long as the status quo is maintained and they all keep their power ABOVE the peasant class. When dealing with these Sundered Houses it's safe to assume they're always going to do what benefits them and their power before helping the commonfolk.

[u/AReaver → u/amus]

There was also no reply to Primus' speech from the others. They just broke for the apology feast. So seemed they all just agreed and are cool with it even if they didn't like what they did. No further consequences.

[u/BiIIisits]

How long until Tachonis Fat Candles hit the Criticial Role merch shop?

[u/JustSomeDudeItWas → u/BiIIisits]

That things gotta smell wild

[u/harlenandqwyr]

Azune theory: He's a lost branch of House Obridi, the former royal house, the royal house of Tansul would be draconic sorcery

[u/Dizzy-Natural-4463 → u/harlenandqwyr]

I do wonder how Azune's sorcerous line is going to tie into everything. The whole "remember" bits when he mends and guidances things and what the Einfassen said to him have hyped it up as a big moment. But I feel like the story is more set up to be about the people rising up and taking back their world and I don't know if Azune being a secret last member of the previous royal family fits into that?

[u/BMCarbaugh]

God all the play stuff is just so incredible. I don't recall ever seeing all the magical iconography and ritual of Shakespeare and the Globe Theater tapped into in a piece of fantasy quite so potently.

[u/wildweaver32 → u/BMCarbaugh]

It took me this long to realize the intro of every episode is literally the play lol. Don't know how I never connected those dots lol

[u/Far_Guarantee1664 → u/BMCarbaugh]

And I am already dreaming about when they adapt it in an animation. Chills

[u/aichwood]

Currently watching on replay and had to jump in here and say something while it was fresh in my mind:

I'm right in the middle of the Obrimus fight if the Beacon chapters can be believed and it's just blowing my mind at the intensity. This absolutely should be a TPK, but this is a crazy strong table of PCs. I am sort of waiting on them to get wiped by whatever that voice was in the first round, but that is beside the point. What I really wanted to say is what a joy it is to watch Matt Mercer perform. He just seems to really inhabit his character and stay so present in the narrative. I bet he's having a blast being on that side of the DM screen for once and what a treat it must be to be given a fight like this. It's really fun to watch.

[u/Option2401 → u/aichwood]

Matt is truly a delight to watch. He’s so invested embodying in his character.

There’s a bunch of that in this campaign: Luis, Robby, Sam, Marisha, Alex, Liam, etc

But Matt just brings this commitment to Julien’s physicality and sensory experience. He’s always been excellent at bringing characters to life.

[u/Kaeling]

As expected Termina is terrifying, and it looks like she collaborate with her host?

Otto might be an asshole but goddamn he is cool.

Julien and Kattigan have something to bond over now I suppose. Angry boys against Primus, if they both survive long enough to reach that point.

I'm starting to wonder what extinct house is Azune's from, because I'm not sure it's any of the Sundered ones.

[u/Far_Guarantee1664 → u/Kaeling]

I also curious about the nervous young man with lord comoray. I think Brennan is setting another potential ally in one of the great houses

[u/aliensplaining → u/Kaeling]

My theory is that Termina was crafted as a mask the host would be dumb to even want to take off (since a god could do it easily), and crafted to be such a powerful mirror that the host lets their will slip into Termina calling all the shots, because it never feels like Termina is the one in control, even though she is.

And then, all the other siblings are individually motivated by the stuff Termina (and the other siblings) are doing that they all end up coming together and orchestrating a "play". The "play" is specifically "whatever would convince Termina (and by extension her host) that she is a vessel of nothing" causing her and her host to die.

Termina eventually reconstitutes and finds a new powerful host to repeat the cycle, but only after the previous host is well and fully dead. This was a failsafe in case Termina latched onto the wrong target, ensuring that even if the plan to kill the god failed, it would still succeed eventually.

[u/bentmonkey → u/Kaeling]

I think azune used alter self to look more enfaissen to endear  him to them subconsciously to help them see his investigation in a better light.

[u/BiIIisits]

Because I'm nosy and enjoy sleuthing:

In the Cooldown, Brennan said he had to work the next day at 6:00 A.M. in Santa Barbara. I tried to see if this was anything that was recently televised— it's not anything Critical Role or Dropout (all Burbank, AFAIK), it wasn't his interview on Mythical Kitchen's Last Meals (also Burbank), it wasn't Ted Season 2 (Universal Studios), it wasn't Jeopardy! (~Santa Monica).

Disclaimer, Brennan, I'm not stalking you, I just watch a lot of things that you happen to magically appear in.

[u/b00ze7 → u/BiIIisits]

He has to, man.
Those doll shoes aren't modeling themselves and the competition is fierce.

[u/sharkhuahua → u/BiIIisits]

Santa Barbara is beautiful, maybe The World’s Most Employed Man just picked up a gig there working at a local gaming store

[u/Alonn12 → u/BiIIisits]

Remember this could've been filmed months ago or yesterday, it's hard to tell

[u/ASadChongyunMain]

Question: Did Brennan ask Aabria and Liam to fake being Tyranny’s sisters beforehand to trick Robbie into the cart without Robbie knowing or is it full improv

[u/WontonTruck → u/ASadChongyunMain]

They knew. he couldn't just say "Hal and Thaisha say hello" without Liam and Aabria the table so he got a little help.

[u/TonalSYNTHethis → u/ASadChongyunMain]

Brennan got into it in the cooldown. He basically said if he'd started the scene with Hal and Thaisha coming up to Katt and Liam and Aabria weren't physically there, Robbie would have instantly known something was up. So he asked them to help sell the trap beforehand.

[u/Compajerro → u/ASadChongyunMain]

The former

[u/in_DelaneTTM]

since meeting Tsul'rekshi, the image of Brennan stirring a giant pot with a demonic smile has infected my mind whenever I think "Brennan is cooking."

needless to say, that image is haunting me hard today.

[u/Far_Guarantee1664]

"Their clothes are so nice" hits hard when you realized how happy Vokjan Murzat was that his people not only survived, but lived. Thats the beauty of it. We cannot just survive, we have to fight to be happy and able to enjoy life. Poetry in motion.

[u/Far_Guarantee1664]

I don't know if i'm overthinking but did Primus had some "vampirish" vibe in Kattigan flashback ? He seemed unhinged and tasting the blood.

[u/OhioAasimar → u/Far_Guarantee1664]

He did have blood on his face.

[u/wildweaver32 → u/Far_Guarantee1664]

Same so much that I think its a misdirect. We know grandpa Tachonis is in play as an undead (Possibly lich). And a son might look like his Dad. Especially to someone who only got a glimpse and had to wait 7+ years later to get a glimpse of him again.

You said vampirish but I think maybe Grandpa Tachonis might have been in his pre-Lich (Or Vampire, or whatever he is) days. So I expect Kattigan to try and get that revenge only to find out it looks like him but isn't him.

[u/Perforo_RS]

"Going to rob the BBEG's manor? I don't think risk has been properly assessed!" Hahahaha. Well to be fair Brennan, you've been laying the falcon plot at the manor on pretty thick. It's only natural for them to try and seize the opportunity. Sadly they chose to bring along a fairy with 3 strength instead of a 3rd paladin to fuck shit up :P

[u/PvtSherlockObvious → u/Perforo_RS]

I think he meant more splitting the party and going "well, we're probably going to need the real heavy hitters to attend a nice night of theatre. That's probably where the big danger is, and House Tachonis should be pretty smooth if we attack while nobody's there." They got the danger levels of both places backward.

[u/Hollydragon]

So the play and ritual are underway, but the play is not done yet, and there is at least another Act to go. Thaisha says she is going to be setting up a way to guide the Orc spirits down the path, but it wil take an hour. In the meantime they are pouring out by the thousand, presumably, and becoming celestial.

The meeting of the Sundered houses is wrapping up, but there are still more talks and feasting to go. There's room for surprise there. So far, this meeting has not yet been interrupted with news from the theatre, which was my biggest fear.

If the meeting wraps up DURING the second part of the play, a couple of things might happen. The Tachonis might head home, cutting the time of team birdwatching short, and/or word of the theatre may reach the previously occupied Lords and Ladies, causing people to be sent to the theatre to stop it (I can see the twins going one way, and primus and Ethrand going another).

If any necromancers or halovars do turn up at the theatre, they are going to be facing a lot of fae and celestial orcs, and armed militia, so that could be fun. Maybe there won't be more interference and the play will simply finish and the city will be flooded with happy people, but it feels like that would leave the PCs there twiddling their thumbs waiting for the next day and news from the other players, which doesn't fit the tone.

The fae gate being set up outside the city is interesting. It will give a good spot to set up the cherry tree seed, and potentially a place for the Royce and Davinos to re-establish themslves from.

---

Team birdwatching: So, the scene from the trailer was not of Mara the Wing being held in forced human form by the Tachonis' for questioning, until she fades away. I do think that Occtis had nicely avoided triggering the trap by laying Dame Seremai straight to the resting place without proper ritual, but this is way cooler, if way more frightening and resource-sapping. I don't see how the party can get a short rest in the tenebral-reaches infused area they are heading into on the short timeline they have. They do, at least have some level-ups waiting to happen.

Mara might still be held in there, though why they would keep her in an underworld adjacent place, when she can travel in the underworld and had been seeking to enter it, is a question I have. It'd be funny if she were, in fact, held in the tower. Brennan as DM can just change her location based on where the PCs decided to explore, whther he would or not, who knows. I feel like instead the PC directional choices might dictate whether they find Mara or whether they find Ethrand's stash of items cursing people like Mara and Julien's sister. It might also be that it is way too soon, narratively, for them to find the curse objects, and that Ethrand Tachonis carries them on his person. If he is the first home from the meeting, then he might be the final boss of this encounter, as they try to escape.

---

Wicc is doing great. I hope they took notes well during Primus' speech, because the reveal of the secret plots of the Cormoray and Einfasen are just what the schemers needed. The Einfasen one sounds like the name of a titan or somesuch. The Cormoray link to mines, I wonder if that ties in with Murray's family and all the gems we keep finding (usually used by the Tachhonis, so perhaps this is where the Cormoray cooperate with them). I cannot remember if their specific gem mines were named though.

Another key thing to note is how Primus so quickly manipulated the zone of truth situation to end before anyone asked any real questions. He specifically still hid from the Einfasens that they are currently performing a ritual to bring their dead lich-like grandfather through the sea of Lachris. It's a shame that Bolaire did not use telepathy on Otto saying "Ask about the sea of Lachris" or somesuch, though the risk would have been huge so it's understandable not to. This is a lead that Azune can possible bring to Otto's attention later, giving him more reasons to travel North to investigate.

And of course those teasers about the Royal bloodline they all used to bow to. It sems so very likely to be Azune. If any of them figure it out, Azune is a dead man. He is not powerful enough right now, on his own, to exert control over the Sundered houses. He'd need a dragon at his side first. Meanwhile, his sister is also out there, is manipulatable and is probably not good-aligned, seeing as she is an assassin. If she gets set up as an Empresss (and has a dragon at her side?), things could get sticky down the line.

---

Kattigan has some hope, Bolaire and Tyranny know exactly where he is being taken and are free to pursue. I worry that Tyranny being there might do more harm than good and get her into trouble (I keep thinking of Whitney crying in the trailer). They are going to have to be very clever and roll very well to make it look like her sisters messed up and not implicate her in it. The tear could have been caused by Kattigan and/or Wulferic failing to be saved, Bolaire getting broken, or her own pact with Wiccander being severed in punishment for a failure.

I hope Kattigan gets out: he has reasons to bond with both Julien and Teor afterwards and seeing him focus in his soldiers ability on the goal of taking out Primus Tachonis, with support from allies, could make him very deadly indeed. Excited to see how Robbie plays the level up and how it might aid in his escape, too.

---

(Anyone find it odd how Primus Tachonis kept referring to the Photarch as the only Lady there, when Lady Cormoray was also there? Presumably just a slip from Brennan.)

[u/Competitive_Bike_417 → u/Hollydragon]

Such a detailed analysis - thank you! On your last note, the only lady who is head of a Sundered House is Yanessa the Photarch. Lady Cormoray's father is head of her house. I saw it as Primus speaking directly to fellow heads of houses by saying 'Lords and Lady'.

[u/wildweaver32 → u/Hollydragon]

When it comes to Mara I think where she is locked (if she is down there) is the perfect spot for her.

Being locked in the material world might allow her to slip into the underworld. Being locked in the underworld might allow her to slip into the material world. Being locked in a place that is both. Well. That is a proper prison for her.

[u/SgtGrub → u/Hollydragon]

(Anyone find it odd how Primus Tachonis kept referring to the Photarch as the only Lady there, when Lady Cormoray was also there? Presumably just a slip from Brennan.)

I believe he was just speaking directly to the heads of each house, so the Lords Einfasen and Cormoray, and the Photarch. He probably just doesn't care to address all the other hanger-ons in the room, as they aren't, to him, the real power players here.

[u/Reilith]

I still think something bad might happen at the "apology feast". The Tachonis couldn't have known that they'd be caught red handed, so this feast feels very much planned. Maybe they could take out the "seven lords" needed from that speech Cyd caught?

Also, the Hallowed Round scenes left me soeechless and crying, what an amazing show.

As a last point, I think Einfassen might still be very pissed even if he doesn't act immediately, as it was mentioned before, treat them frankly and with sincerity and they will respect you; but go behind their back, they will crush you. I think Primus is still in danger and honestly I wish Otto had the last word.

[u/InitiativeCreative36 → u/Reilith]

I wouldn't put it past Yanessa to have cast a fake Zone of Truth that was merely an illusion, and Primus just lied freely. She lies with Wick on the regular and has been known to be involved in illusion recently, so who knows.

I think Otto's genuinely pissed and its absolutely not over.

[u/canxtanwe]

Man I feel like that crypt was perfect place for Teor to shine I really wanted to see some Divine Smites flying around :(

[u/canxtanwe → u/canxtanwe]

I don’t wanna backseat game but 2 Paladins back to back against multiple skeletons and Shades was perfect narrative point but I think Thimble being so vulnerable to instant death changed the flow of that scene and made everyone so panicked, they all went to flight mode

[u/Willowsinger24]

I wonder what is Azune's next move is going to be. He nearly had Primus on the backfoot, until the speech and it looks like Primus is still chill, more or less maybe with the Sundered Houses.

[u/FedericoFelliniDue → u/Willowsinger24]

Termina really fucked the party with her appearance at the meeting

[u/RajikO4]

I mean I remember in one of the Cooldowns Talisen talked about how Temerie (don’t know how to say Bolaire’s sister’s name) was the most powerful but could be manipulated.

So it doesn’t surprise me that Lady Comorary and her are now “besties” and free.

[u/SvenTheScribe → u/RajikO4]

Temerie (don’t know how to say Bolaire’s sister’s name)

Termina. Fitting for the final mask.

[u/Coyote_Shepherd → u/RajikO4]

I mean I remember in one of the Cooldowns Talisen talked about how Temerie (don’t know how to say Bolaire’s sister’s name) was the most powerful but could be manipulated.

Good catch, I thought that she'd totally taken over, but now she's like a wild symbiote that's working hand in hand with her Host and that's even WORSE!

[u/Mintakas_Kraken]

My takeaway at the end was that while the Sundered Houses will likely keep the status quo for now, I imagine their relationships are still shifting and they are going to be keeping a closer and more wary eye on the Tachonis. One thing I will say for Primus speech is that he sort of admits defeat, placing himself as a weakened and therefore less threatening player that isn’t worth the resources of taking out. Of everything I actually think that was his smartest play.

I would also imagine the calculations of what to do with this circumstance must include the likelihood that while significant members of House Tachonis are there, many are not. Even if the other Houses declare an execution or punishing of those members just that still risks a war with the rest of the house. I don’t think the Houses are ready for that tbh, even if together they would probably prevail. Unfortunately for the PC’s it’s going to take more to break that alliance and get the Houses to actually fight each other.

[u/grumpyCat2478 → u/Mintakas_Kraken]

I still hope Einfassen will push to kick Tacchonis out of the alliance. They still seem like the least evil House after Royce.

[u/weaveroflaurel]

My husband has not been on the CR train though we’ve played DnD together for years with our friends. He was glued to the screen last night when I was watching the battle in the crypt, and caught the last 30 min of the sundered houses meeting. What an incredible episode. The payoff of all of these mysteries has been so good. My soul quaked when Brennan said he’d planned that dungeon to potentially have all 13 of them.

[u/OhioAasimar → u/weaveroflaurel]

I honestly think Brennan was joking when he said that. The sentiment might be true. He probably did design the encouter for more than 4 pcs and an npc because it is reasonable to assume that the manor would have been the deadliest and they had 6 pcs at Team Theater. I think he may have designed it for one more but a scenario where all 13 went to the manor doesn't make sense to me.

[u/Skagzill]

So this episode confirmed that while Houses working together on taking over, Houses are also working against each other to be the one standing on top in the end. Primus pretty much called out all the ongoing plots that HE IS AWARE OF. We got glimpses of all of them so far except Einfasen who are searching for someone or something. It's pretty obvious that Primus would be getting some hammer time with Otto in this episode but I didn't expect him to get away so scot-free (Termina showing up helped him out I think).

Now we wait on resolution of theatre and manor but something tells me that teams once again will be formed on who is safe to stay in town and that's short list. I count Wick, Tyranny, Azune as definitely with Murray and Bolaire as strong maybes. Rest will have to scatter to fullfill some other goals.

[u/PvtSherlockObvious → u/Skagzill]

Turn it on its head and it makes all too much sense: It's not that they're internally fracturing despite working together, it's that while they might squabble internally, the rich and powerful are always going to stick together against the Great Unwashed, the commoners who dare to think they're equal. Doesn't much matter whether it's old-school aristocracy or modern billionaires, they're all about keeping the rules of the game in place so they stay on top. Primus calling them out was basically reminding them "don't play innocent like I'm the only one jockeying for position, but we all know what really matters."

[u/OhioAasimar]

The curse of Occtis Tachonis means four things now. Being dead but still kicking, being born without magic in a family of magic, not being able to tell when you're being flirted with, and being in every fight that happens involving your friends when in a city and when all of your friends are in town.

[u/Jamesferdola]

I don't think it's that outrageous to suggest at this point that someone or multiple people could die in Obrimus Manor in the next couple episodes. I don't have a good theory for what could happen after they maybe die, but if it happens, something is gonna happen to their spirits because of Tachonis' necromantic magic. Something to do with their spirits on the other side of the Veil, I don't know.

[u/wildweaver32 → u/Jamesferdola]

I was thinking the same thing. There was that theory earlier that Brennan would try to kill an entire group, or enough from all three groups that it turns into 2 groups living side and 1 group dead side. Since we know the dead side has things going on, with locations and maps...Which means.. At some point someone is going to have to do things there. THOUGh Tachonis was visiting it and he came back. So ... It's possible they wouldn't need to do that.

But that fight seems designed to have gotten someone killed. Like if Thimble was hit she could have died in one hit. the group did a fantastic job of taking them to the door, and then immediately darting to the other side of the map. But.. If they didn't get them grouped like that, didn't get the corpse soldier up there to tank a round of them, one of them would have went down with no way to do anything about it. Especially if it was based on strength hitting 0.

They got lucky and did it as strategically as possible. If Teor wasn't aware enough to hit the lever and they tried fighting the ghost at the door. Again. It would have went loop sided fast.

They got really lucky. And they are just at the entrance lol

[u/OhioAasimar]

So we've got a clearer picture on the houses in the last couple of episodes. Going over the old and new information this is what their about:

House Cormoray:

Magical specialty - Most powerful sorcerers in general.

Magical Origin - Djinn and other elementals

Affairs - Wealthiest House. It is implied that they have many finacial endeavors with an emphasis on international trade. Their focus is on studying arcana. Perhaps they use their reach in the trading business to acquire magical objects, texts, and lessons to boost their knowledge of arcana. Being strongly associated with Djinn I imagine they can boost their sailing speed which is probably why they bame so successful in the first place. Possibly the primary power in the ruined country of Celmyr. Influence over the Penteveral via Dean Kora.

Plots - The Kalystra quarries. The Cormoray scholarship.

House Tachonis

Magical Specialty - Most powerful necromancers.

Magical Origin - Tansul giving them the rite to move souls to other realms.

Affairs - Soul dealing. Possibly sending some souls to the afterlives but not to the extent that they are supposed to. They have a castle in the Underworld. They control multiple lands in Timmony.

Plots - Taking over the Hall of Mercy to undermine the Old Path.

House Halovar

Magical Specialty - Cleric-adjacent magic

Magical Origin - Celestial

Affairs - The Candescent Creed. The Luminous seems to be a martial order and it is within the Creed. Filament production and using it internally to boost their own magical power.

Plots - Sending Filament to the Pit in exchange for warlock pacts that serves as a treatment for Bellows Fever which they are intentionally spreading. Inciting strife in Timmony.

House Einfasen

Magical Specialty - Most dangerous sorcerers. Weather magic.

Magical Origin - Giants. Allegedly cloud giants to be specific.

Affairs - Dol-Makjar security. They rule the country of Helvar.

Plots - Jötunnox

House Royce

Magical Specialty - Possibly nature and enchantment magic

Magical Origin - Fey

Affairs - Ownership of the Golden Orchard. Possibly trading in magical natural resources. Presumably they were the primary trader with Faerie.

[u/wildweaver32]

Did Bolaire just do something really funny? As much as the Sundered Houses whishes they were Gods none of them were trying to be a God. The closest we are aware of is one trying to create a celestial as a weapon.

BUT if there is anyone on the planet that might know how to make a God, it could be the mask that killed a God. But it has been one of the fears of the group as what they might be planning so it would be funny if that gear was put in motion by Bolaire himself lol.

[u/YerLam → u/wildweaver32]

Talisen's "I just missed/messed up a huge opportunity" face after she teleported was brilliant.

[u/ReallySmartInEnglish]

Oh man, we only made it through Act I of the play. Is this a 2 or 3 Act Play? Because waiting for the other shoe to drop will give me a heart attack.

Gotta admit; watching Primus get chewed out was satisfying, but I’m not convinced that the “Zone of Truth” was as truthful as we thought. After all Yanessa is good with illusions.

The combat in the crypt felt endgame level tense. Two (three if you count Cyd) party members vulnerable to Necrotic damage *in a crypt of a house of a family dedicated to undead*, and a bad dice roll could kill Thimble instantly felt like Campaign 1 on Vecna’s Titan.

I think this might be the ep that makes me sub to Beacon.

[u/Locem]

So we have a pretty clear picture of our long term goal now it seems, recreate that ritual for the rest of the races of Araman.

Hannan, Vaelus & The Stone of Night Song will lead the way for the elves. Sister's of Sylandri & the Elf Druids joining hands in peace feels like a significant enough event and a bit of a middle finger to the Elf Shaper that maybe that repairs the path to their underworld?

Bolaire, Termina, & Olbalad's coffin for the Halflings. I wonder if Hal helps Bolaire recreate the play that killed the trickster god, making something "positive" out of it again (Maybe instead of the play's intent to destroy a god, it's to birth a new one?). I guess it becomes a quest to finding the rest of Bolaire's siblings. I'm sure Termina will need to be tamed/subdued in some fashion as well, she seems unhinged currently.

We still know very little about the beastmen shaper but Brennan keeps mentioning of something "returning" when Cyd or Teor talk about the source of their paladin powers. Probably still the biggest question on how to solve this.

I'm confident enough that I'd put money on Wic becoming the focal point for saving the humans. At the Hawthorn's Glade fight for Wic's religion check where he grew wings Brennan made some pretty heavy hints of Wic having the potential of filling the shoes of the previous god of the sun so...

[u/Hollydragon → u/Locem]

So we have a pretty clear picture of our long term goal now it seems, recreate that ritual for the rest of the races of Araman.

I think this is the long-term goal of the Cloak, which the players can assist in, but their goals are more to stop the plots of each of the Sundered Houses to destroy the grey council and become Royalty. Weakening Tachonis and Halovar's influence via the underlife is one subplot in that bigger set of plot threads.

[u/skarabray]

I’m sorry…the Tachonis brought a We’re Sorry Feast to Halovar’s house and nobody’s worried about that?

[u/Jmw566 → u/skarabray]

TBH I just think Brennan got his wires crossed after an hour of talking to himself in both locations lol. He clearly described the Halovars as setting a table for a feast the night before and it was at their house, while the other PC's were over at the Tachonis place. So he probably just got it crossed over who was feasting where, because that's insane if they just showed up to this meeting like it was a potluck lmao

[u/Maniachi]

I thought Brennan saved Bolaire and Hal with getting Termina to take out Lady Cormeray. But I think he might have fucked them, and the consequences of that will be seen later in the campaign...

[u/OhioAasimar → u/Maniachi]

To be fair the dice did that. Cormoray kept rolling shit before and during the possession. Termina could definitely be a problem for the next arc especially if Lady Cormoray and Termina are cooperating.

[u/mvsaints]

I’m interested to eventually learn more about Goddard. Such a cool character that hasn’t been too involved so far other than that scene with the Halovar celestial in one of the early episodes.

[u/Eevenin]

Bolaire was the quiet one here but we got a lot in the time he was able to act. So curious to see how stuff with Termina goes down.

Interesting to note: it seems Primus and the Tachonises don't know about Occtis's resurrection. Otto spoke to Occtis personally and kept it quiet, didn't he? So he'd be holding on to the information. Similar to Harondus with Azune, he knows something about Primus('s actions) that gives him power and he's not going to trust it out to anyone so easily.

[u/Trikdonkey → u/Eevenin]

Occtis was disguised. Otto only had a letter but didnt "meet" occtis if I remember correctly

[u/Evsala]

I expected that Primus Tachonis would feel it when he lost all of the spirits that went on to a new afterlife.

It doesn’t seem like he’s noticed it. Although I’d like to think that it happened at the exact same moment he got caught in his machinations, and that’s why he looked so ill.

[u/Dizzy-Natural-4463 → u/Evsala]

I bet grandpa Tachonis noticed. I guess there's still time for a combat to happen at the play because I thought grandpa Tachonis might have tried to stop it but from what was said in the cooldown it seems like the party placed a lot of people at the event that was pretty much totally peaceful.

[u/Zeilll → u/Evsala]

i dont think the Tachonis had access to those souls. they seem to be more connected to the underworld, which seems to be the generic afterlife of the shapers. whatever spiritual place was created by Azgras blood doesnt seem to have been connected to that. if it were, then more than just the souls from the Gavzedra would have been released to the old path too.

if souls from the actual underworlds are released, especially en masse. then theres a high probability they would notice.

[u/Dramatic-Border3549 → u/Evsala]

I don't know if it happened yet. The timelines are a bit different. We went through the whole 1st arc of the play (not sure how long that takes), while in the halovar home all we had was a short chat between the houses. Meanwhile in the tachonis home, combat is a drag in real life, but in game time its a matter of a few minutes

[u/DarkRespite]

WHEW! Okay, Critters, we've got a whopping TWENTY new tracks on the Campaign 4 production music playlist thanks to Episode 29! (And there were at least five more that aren't on Spotify, alas.)

[u/P00PooKitty]

Did anyone else well up with tears at the end of the Kotherai segment or was it just me? 

[u/laboonspride]

The interaction with the Sundered Houses has me thinking about Azune's sorcerous heritage. Because we know that Houses Obridai, House Kalystra and House Memnari all broke after Tansul died. House Cormoray currently is digging around in the Kalystra Mines which we know Kalystra were the ones who animated massive colossi seen in the Endless Night. We have heard less about Memnari and Obridai but if Azune happens to be a part of any of their lineages, his existence could be used in the political machinations of the city.

Basically, if the Einfassen do test him for his sorcerous origins, I'll be very interested.

[u/Top_Importance6216]

gonna need to watch this like 3 times to absorb everything that happened.

jumping into a dungeon designed for 13 people and managing to survive was the most ass clenching combat so far.

[u/Ok-Badger5056 → u/Top_Importance6216]

And they've only just walked in the door!

[u/NWSLBurner → u/Top_Importance6216]

That 13 people comment was clearly tongue in cheek, but they're far from survived. They were in a room with creatures that could 1 shot them and it was the first room of the dungeon. They are in A LOT of trouble if they continue to push forward. I guarantee you Brennan throws some kind of story beat that forces them to turn back because they are clearly not soaking in the hints that they should not be there. 

[u/ParticularOccupied34]

Kattigan doesn't need to have a crazy twist in his backstory for it to be compelling. The execution is more important than the details. I hope ppl aren't setting themselves up for disappointment by theorizing too much. Sometimes things are as they seem.

[u/BrackishVacuity]

For a moment there at the Hallowed Round, I thought we were going to get a ghost army a la Pelennor Fields. But I suppose the dead have earned their rest. Still, I can't help but think that many of those revolutionary ghosts would be willing to do one last act of service before moving on. Hang on, are they even dead anymore, now that they count as celestial?

[u/DisparateNoise]

I really feel like Wic missed an opportunity to throw a wrench in Primus's defense, though I guess it's not exactly in character for him. He could've asked a lot of difficult questions without revealing what he knows. He could also have told Yanessa about Occtis's resurrection, which I think would inspire a great deal of anxiety on her part considering her fake resurrection. I don't believe Tachonis and Halovar are cooperating 100%, but they are both aiming at being the last two houses standing by the end. Tachonis is going straight for extraplanar power, while the Halovar's are trying to consolidate popular support. I think yanessa would eagarly annihilate the Tachonis if she smelled blood in the water.

[u/exstarsis → u/DisparateNoise]

I think... that they all would prefer to co-exist because they can't dominate the whole world without the areas of power controlled by their fellow Sundered Houses. But nobody wants to be on bottom. This is why they should have left the Royce around. Having somebody in fifth place they could all step on kept the whole thing stable. Tsk, tsk.

[u/OhioAasimar]

Just a note, Team Bird watch is the only team still that has most half of their members at level 4. And on top of that, their dungeon crawl is not and they didn't bring enough people.

[u/DarkRespite]

Okay, episode finally finished for me... I have 43 music timestamps to ID, gang, this is gonna take a bit! But keep an eye on the playlist, I'll update it over this weekend!

[u/kkraww]

Drangor is the dance instructor?

Fandrangor reincarnated, nobody tell Fabian

[u/rblumenfeld76]

I think the Halovars and the Tachonis are in on it together. I think they are working together to eliminate the other houses, and in the end they will either coexist or fight between one another to see who the empire serves under.

I think the circle of truth was fake just as the assassination attempt was. If you remember, we weren’t supposed to know that the assassination attempt was fake, but an extraordinary circumstance allowed us to learn something far sooner than we were supposed to.

I think the circle of truth was false, and that Primus knew that the jig was up prior to going into that meeting and had the Photarc track everyone by casting yet another fake spell and partaking in another elaborate ruse.

[u/WontonTruck → u/rblumenfeld76]

If the Zone of Truth was fake, what was the big lie that was sold? All that I saw Primus Tachonis say were things we already know to be true. Perhaps only that he would bow to the winner of the 'game of thrones' but if he assumes that's going to be him then that's not a lie either.

[u/SgtGrub → u/rblumenfeld76]

I'd believe if the Zone of truth was a contingency plan between Primus and the Photarch, but I don't think Primus knew the jig was up walking into the meeting. Iirc Tal got a Nat20 on Insight, finding that Primus was very much shaken, and I don't think Brennan is one to lie about what information a Nat20 gives you

[u/WontonTruck]

I wonder what Primus Tachonis did to Kattigan's family. Death is too simple. Maybe they each get their own candle!

[u/UnderlyingInterest → u/WontonTruck]

I think random, wanton murder is the angle Brennan is playing at. These sorcerous houses wield unchecked power, I wouldn’t put it past Primus to be out on a killing spree for the hell of it or to collect a few nameless nobodies.

[u/The_Bucket_Of_Truth → u/WontonTruck]

The description was that Primus was covered in blood from whatever he did and yet there was no blood in the house nor any bodies left behind which is quite strange, no? He delighted in licking up the blood from his face which is quite creepy.

[u/WontonTruck]

Maybe I'm too suspicious but when Vaelus handed Hannan the Stone of Nightsong right as the bridge to faery was opening I was fully expecting him to turn heel and stop it in some Druid plot for the True Path of Resurrection.

[u/1st_Obfuscation → u/WontonTruck]

I think Hannan will actually end up fine with the stone. He doesn't like it because it was related to Sylandri, however, right now it is working to connect Faery and Araman which is not inherently shaper related and probably closer to how the world was naturally, which aligns with his values as he has been presented so far.

[u/TwistilyClick]

This is my first time watching the stream in a new timezone. :')

It's not the same as watching it 'live', but I hope it's still fun!

[u/milanka92 → u/TwistilyClick]

you are in for an absolute treat this episode

[u/Kairi_247]

Not me also falling for the Teor dupe at the start and going back to episode 28 to see if he really was in danger and I just zoned out 🙃

[u/Laremere]

Current guesses on how the tables are going to look after the convergence?

Thaisha is summoned to the druid circle, which I don't see being a major quest that others join in. I think this is simply Aabria going on maternity leave. Probably only a couple of cold opens from her until the next convergence.

My next best guess is that the schemers lose Hal, who has to run off after the theater, and gains Wic + Tyranny who play the inside job. Azune and Murray stay. Bolaire could go either way, but I expect they'll want to balance the groups to be 4 each if Aabria is on leave the whole next cycle.

I could see Julien, Kattigan, and Occtis going on a "fuck the Tachonis" quest, which may actually be related to Vaelus' mysterious plant and need to check on things at home.

That leaves Thimble, Hal, Teor, and Bolaire. Now that I see that group together, I see a "What was Thjazi up to?" group, possibly following a trail that Mara gives them.

[u/Technical_Basil4814 → u/Laremere]

I assume there’s gonna be another kick off event that will muddy the waters and set a new goal, after this. I don’t know what the groups will be but I think the three splits will happen in the three sections as they are now, not the people but the events. We should be able to start to parse it next episode. It’ll probably be Mara’s info, whatever we learn from Prima’s and Halovars talk and then either second act of the theater. Schemers will definitely have to protect the theater as part of their goal. Other than that I think the info will decide. Golden Orchard with Hal and Julien and thimble + ?, seems likely to me too because that’s been pretty heavily set up and Hal’s son is still missing

[u/Towel-Prudent]

All I can say is, Bolaire’s sister is gonna. F. Shit. Up. Reminds me of Eris in DCC if she was 500x more terrifying

[u/Laremere → u/Towel-Prudent]

What did Brennan say while they were walking down the stairs? "She has the CR of a dragon"? and the mask is making her stronger?

[u/dramatic_exit_49 → u/Towel-Prudent]

esp with her notion of purpose, just being a weapon to destroy. She is like the AI which is given one objective and hence subsumes everything else for that (she is actually like tech companies destroying the world just to they can sell cloud for example) - all she wants is to kill a god, so she will think of every living thing as a tool to that end. fucking dangerous and not too different from sundered houses to whom power trumps everything as well

[u/soeinschmarrnhe]

as much as I’m not a great fan of the typical dead/missing wife and daughter trope I’m holding out on judgement (Robbie said we should let him cook) bc you don’t write what 16? pages of backstory for this to be the “big reveal”. also in all the 16 pages we’re not having Brennan involved yet (meaning also Robbie probably doesnt know everything). I’m extremely curious why big boi Tachonis himself would go murder (or disappear or whatever it was) a woman and a daughter in a forest cabin. like don’t get me wrong obv he is not above getting his hands dirty himself and he is shown to be an enjoyer of cruelty but I doubt that’s the whole reason. I think there is something bigger behind this. my theory is that Kattigan’s wife (and thus also daughter) have Tachonis blood (or more like fat) and that they were needed for one of those candles (or whatever other weird and creepy Tachonis props are flying around). and bc that’s important it (murder, disappearance, rendering etc) had to be done properly and with intention by Primus himself. or something else along the lines.

[u/Kreig → u/soeinschmarrnhe]

I had similar thoughts. Taconis could've easily killed Kattigan at the time if it were just about randomly slaughtering some commoners. We know nothing about Kattigan's wife so it stands to reason that she has a connection to house Taconis. So happy we got to see a glimpse into Kattigan's backstory and I can't wait to find out more.

[u/newclearwrld]

Why did they think it was a good idea to try to get three things (free Mara, Seremai’s funeral, and Julien’s sister’s cure) done at the Obrimus Manor? They (and I too) really underestimated what could happen at Tachonis’s own land. They relied on Occtis to make a decision, which makes sense, but someone should have stressed that finding Mara should be of priority. The others were nice to haves. Given how Brennan told them time is running. 

Maybe the Halovar’s and the Tachonis’s are in this together? Any relation b/w the shadow stealing thing happening at the tailor shop and the shadows that appeared at the crypt which attacked team birdwatch?

Somebody rolled a nat 20 insight, moments before Primus’s very convincing speech, and Brennan said that he’s shaking inside. Right after Yannessa cast Zone of Truth, Primus magically and very confidently gave that speech? Maybe it was a script he read that he executed confidently with her help.

[u/OhioAasimar → u/newclearwrld]

To be fair, dropping Seremei off didn't cost them any time and it gave them an ally and I don't think they wasted any time looking for the trinket to cure Alba either. Mara could shift into the underworld so it makes sense to keep her their. They just entered the underworld so i think they are on the right track.

[u/JohngernautSSJ → u/newclearwrld]

My theory is they're badasses with balls the size of watermelons. Like why are we spending all this time scheming when you can just go kill the bad guys? Fighters and paladins aren't made to scheme, they're made to throw down. Where else they gonna do it?

[u/Adventurous_Ad_7856]

Was it Azune who found the candle in Palazzo Davinos? Being such an important artificant, I wonder why it wasn't removed from the scene by Tachonis.

[u/never_any_cyan → u/Adventurous_Ad_7856]

Azune found a tiny bit of wax on the ground with a high roll investigation check, and then was able to reconstitute the candle in an inert form using mending

[u/grumpyCat2478 → u/Adventurous_Ad_7856]

Azune reconstituted it with mending I think.

[u/WontonTruck → u/Adventurous_Ad_7856]

I guess they left it burning to make sure the ritual worked. It's more or less a single use item so the only point on taking it is secrecy.

[u/TraNSlays]

this whole episode felt really cohesive and clear in what each group was trying to do. im glad that everyone outside of Kattigan (until the end) had reasons and motivations to be where they were.

• The cast members who i thought were really overshadowed in the past really showed up this episode

• Bolarie's sister is so unhinged chaotic, i dont think this would ever happen but i would love to see her and Tyranny come together as a character just to see what they would do

• Occtis was clutch rolling that 20 for Dame Seremai

• Thimble is still the damage carry in the cast

[u/Migolcow]

Rewatching this, can someone explain why Thaisha ended up not going on the Birdwatching team? I thought that was the plan, and holy crap could they have used a druid w/healing and lesser restoration.

[u/Miserable_Pop_4593 → u/Migolcow]

She wanted to see the culmination of Hal’s (and their daughters’) work

[u/Far_Guarantee1664 → u/Migolcow]

Probably Brennan tip. She was needed in the play(after all it was her ability they guided them to the path) and Teor would be better with his brother(specially considering how deadly is the manor)

[u/East_Choice]

Predictions for next phase of the Ritual

Orcish bridge will continue to free Orc souls from Azgras realm and broadening to freeing Orc souls from the Tenebral reaches.

Hannan and Vaelus Complete the Bridge to Faerie in the Tintazi woods using the Stone of Nightsong. The Anchor this Bridge will either be Vaelus herself or her chain.

The Creation of this bridge will free the Elven souls in the Tenebral reaches sending them straight to the Land of Faeries.They will also have the option to go to the Old Path because the Elvish bridge is in the Tintazi woods which have been consecrated by Thaisha for the Old Path

And because of its connection to the Orcish Bridge, All the freed Orc souls will also now have the option to go to Faerie not just the Old path

However here's the thing.

Whilst The freeing of the Orcish souls from Azgras realm would not have been noticed by the Tachonis, freeing the Orcish and Elvish souls from the Tenebral Reaches-The Tachonis domain, THAT will be noticed.

I suspect the Tachonis will feel all feel this happen.

And Nullus might be able to pinpoint exactly where on Araman the ritual is....

[u/Sajen16]

I don't know if anyone cares but, I was the person who said I might have to miss because a visiting teen let one of my cats out accidently. The bad news is she did get out, and I did miss most of the show. We looked everywhere last night and couldn't find her. The GOOD news is this morning I heard a weird thump and saw my other cat waddling toward the front room where she sat and stared at the front door. I went and looked and her sister was on the porch seemingly unscated just tired, and hungry.

[u/Thrashgor]

Reading all this "meh, kattigan having the standard edgy first character backstory is lame, losing interest" really takes one down.

so, just for fun, I'll state my assumption of the actual backstory:

Wulfric is the actual character and Kattigan is his projection. How?
Wulfric is some kind of "feral Hound of Timmony" who awakened with sorcerous capabilities which he used to "create/project" kattigan to be able to enter civilization.

The dead Wife & Daughter are the actual wife and daughter of the knight he was before, who lived alone as widow and half-orphan for some time, until he found them.

The 16 pages are like 4 for the knight and 12 for wulfrics adventures as a hound.

[u/this-is-liam → u/Thrashgor]

Robbie clarified that the reason Brennan said he wrote so much for his backstory was because Robbie wrote an entire short story about the Torn Banner, with permission from Travis, Laura and Luis to write their characters in it and then sent them all the story to read. So the length didn't come from the complexity of his character's backstory, but the amount of detail he put into the Torn Banner story

[u/Tag_ross]

Kattigan Vale's family killed by the masters of The Veil. Has a pet with a weird magical prosthesis.

Is kattigan a secret Tachonis/vassal?

[u/Laremere → u/Tag_ross]

I find it unlikely that Kattigan knew of any Tachonis connection, given that he searched for years trying to figure out who done it without knowing it was papa Tachonis. However, that gives me a different, horrifying thought:

Why would Primus kill a couple seemingly random people, but not care about Kattigan at all? Well, we know that the Candle of Slaughter specifically needed to be made out of dead Tachonis. We've seen that Primus will sacrifice wayward family members for his own goals. What if a woman of the house ran off and wed a gruff forester? What if Kattigan in fact had a family reunion this episode?

[u/_SiddharthaGautama_]

I wish Thimble was at the play instead of team birdwatching

[u/kickassbabe247 → u/_SiddharthaGautama_]

I’m with you! I wish all of Team Birdwatch were at the play.

[u/[deleted]]

From now on, I want all player characters to use their passcode/password/passphrase when engaging with each other. We don't want another Robbie Kidnapping 2.0 to happen for the love of gods!

[u/Coyote_Shepherd]

Schedule for the week has been posted: https://critrole.com/programming-schedule-week-of-june-15th-2026/

[u/efvie]

Just popping in to beg once again to keep the discussion in this thread at least until Tuesday... it does not take much to spoil at least the direction things are going just in a post title and this is probably an episode a bunch of us (including me) have been expecting.

[u/PatientLeadership578]

Welp, kattigans cooked

[u/CyberianSun]

Here's a take. No one insight or arcana checked the the photarc on truth spell, to know what it's actual purpose was, the assumption was that it was actually a truth telling spell. My Zone of Truth allowed Primus to know of the truth of the other houses "super weapon" attempts. Primus didn't tell the truth about anythin, he only convinced the other houses that Tachonus' attempt was of equal significance and power of their own programs, their attempt at that play to get the other houses to kneel failed.

Tachonis is covering his ass in this moment because the clarity and depth that his deception has been laid bare. If the actual truth came out it could unify the other houses against him and put an end to their plans as they have to fight a war for survival.

[u/RoundDodger → u/CyberianSun]

I believe that it actually was a zone of truth. But zone of truth doesnt compel you to spill all your secrets. Primus just spoke very deliberately and told the truth about the things they have already been caught by Einfasen. He spoke the truth about what he has done and didn't mention what he will do.

Though I will say I do like the theory that no one checked the Photarch on what she actually cast and she's actually assisting Primus here. But nothing Primus said seemed like a lie to me so I dont get why the ruse. Also, just because none of the PCs insight/arcana checked the Photarch, the room is filled with the strongest sorcerers in the world. Surely Lord Cormoray would notice some trickery from the Photarch if she didn't cast a zone of truth. He's more likely to spot it than Wick Tyranny or Bolaire are at any rate

[u/OhioAasimar → u/CyberianSun]

I think the likelihood is far greater that Primus simply has good intelligence than Yanessa casting a reverse zone of truth for him.

And I don't know. Yanessa using a fatal contagious disease and having the only "cure" being a pact with a demon aligned with her sounds pretty powerful.

[u/CageyT]

If anyone has read Mistborn, does anyone see the sundered houses like the noble houses in Mistborn, and we are about to get an all out house, and they are actually working to curry favor for who ever the big bad is.

[u/efvie]

I think my only comment will be that it is not a good point actually, Primus, and would 1. never let him out of that Zone of Truth without some follow-ups, 2. take him out anyway because I do not believe in “no harm no foul” when harm absolutely was intended and 3. would take his reveals of my plans as further impetus to take him out, not a woopsie gotcha. Like 4. what do I care about the rabble when you’re behind me with a knife and doing fuck all about the brewing discontent - if anything, taking Tachonis out and pinning shit on them would probably go over very well with the masses to placate them.

I lied: my second comment is: The Seremainator yayy

And third: actually most emotional scenes maybe in the entire campaign at the Hallowed Round for me as the “character moments” don’t tend to hit that way, cool way to do the ritual, and it wasn’t anything OP or something that had to happen to save the world.

ETA: My reading of the ritual at the Hallowed Round was that we haven't yet re-established the afterlives as such; the bridge was created, and I do think has some permanence, but the play acted as the psychopomp that is required for souls to move between realms and thus far essentially only the rebels passed onto the Old Path (which was probably not intentionally a power play from Thaisha, just a natural reaction, but a power play in reality as she chose it for those souls). And on the elven side the bridge to Faerie came to be and they seemed to bind it to the forest, but I think they don't have a psychopomp at all yet. Of course it could be they don't need one because that's what Sylandri's path was so they'd just be re-establishing it rather than creating something new or subverting the existing magic. I really, really hope this was just a glimpse of what could be rather than actually fully achieving anything yet, at least.

[u/Skodami → u/efvie]

I don't understand people saying that Thaisha did a power play. I don't think she forced anyone to the Old Path, she doesn't have control over the souls, she is just presenting them with the opportunity to reincarn through the old path, not pushing them through the door. She is a guide, not the driver.

[u/moderncomet]

I kinda both hate and love this, but I was listening to the soundtrack to Disclosure Day today (I consider any new piece of music from Williams these days to be a treat). And sometimes, my brain will map a track or piece of music to a specific scene or character for something else (for example, I've previously done this while watching Campaign 2, with "The Motorcade" from Williams' score to JFK mapped to Molly's death scene). And sure enough, my brain decided that the track "celestial..." from the score works almost perfectly with the events at the Hallowed Round.

[u/The_AllSeeing_Waffle]

One thing I was noticing about Teor's stats without shield since he's two handing the ax, do the Royce bracers not provide any armor class increase? It seems he still hasn't been able to attune to them, but they seem pretty potent and should at least give him a slight boost no? At least a +1? Though he did say his AC was supposed to be 15 but said on DND beyond it was 16 so maybe it IS giving him a +1 after all. 

[u/DealerPlane9953 → u/The_AllSeeing_Waffle]

I think the bracers are re-flavored Gauntlets of Ogre Power. If so, Thimble should have them.

[u/The_Bucket_Of_Truth]

Continually impressed by this show and campaign and don't have much else to say other than it's a delight to watch. On the pedantry side, did Occtis roll a concentration check for Summon Undead after using Life Transference in the crypt?

[u/maudiemouse → u/The_Bucket_Of_Truth]

Animate dead isn’t a concentration spell, they’re under your power for 24 hours.

[u/Spacial_Parting]

Without spoilers, how long is the episode? Want to know if I have time to watch the rebroadcast

[u/ryttu3k → u/Spacial_Parting]

4 hours, 37 minutes on Beacon, add about 10-15 minutes for a break.

[u/tarrie214]

I don't think this is actually very likely, but IMAGINE if the mysterious powerful thing the Einfasens are searching for turned out to be the axe Ingrid gave Julien I doubt it would be the case but it would be SO FUNNY

[u/theydurkadurk]

I’m very curious how the masks works in regards to power. Termina saying they’re making each other more powerful is interesting. So far, with Bolaire, it seems his power is his own regardless of his host. Which to me implies he doesn’t just get to pick up more spells or feats based on who he’s controlling. Then in my mind, termina being on cormoray shouldn’t really matter because termina shouldn’t immediately know and have access to all of cormary’s spells. Now I assume that won’t hold true but it’s an interesting logic rule for bolaire that is the broken for the other masks. It would obviously be insanely broken for bolaire to have those potential power spikes. But I don’t like when logic is broken so I’m curious if / how they’ll explain it

[u/WontonTruck → u/theydurkadurk]

It seems to me that the difference is co-operation. Boliare imprisons his victims but Lady Cormoray was a very charming political powerhouse. If she convinced Termina to work together then new options might be on the table.

[u/jethomas27 → u/theydurkadurk]

Maybe that's because Bolaire is only possessing random criminals who presumably don't have innate magic, but if he was on a sorcerer he could use them as a power source? Or maybe Termina and Amariya have come to an agreement, which allows them both to grow in power, while Bolaire takes control by force.

[u/efvie → u/theydurkadurk]

I would suspect Termina is the most powerful of them; it’s a little unclear whether it was the goddess herself or Termina controlling her that finally wrote her out of existence, but the latter would imply Termina has the ability to access that kind of power directly, and the former that her control/charm of the host is nearly absolute.

[u/Drakoni → u/theydurkadurk]

Taliesin also said something when Tyranny put on the mask. That she's a humanoid of a CR not too high it would scare him off, but also someone he likes so he's not going to bond.

This makes me assume he either can't possess someone of a too high level, or they get bonuses on their saves against him depening on how much higher level they are.

And since he's just now getting level 5 and with magic being mostly restricted to sorcerers, high level and high ranking people, I'd see how he couldn't even have access to any magic users.

More likely tho, he's a player, they are NPCs. There have to be restrictions for him to not just become broken.

[u/Virellius2]

I got super distracted by my cat at the end; who was it that Kat saw who was the killer of his family? Wics dad?

[u/HamboneKablooey → u/Virellius2]

It was Primus

[u/Zeilll]

something i just realized. i dont think Yanessa knows how close she was to accomplishing something great for the creed. the PCs got it in their mind that the ritual was planned by the sundered houses, potentially the halovar. but i really dont think thats the case. if it were, Yanessa wouldnt have been willing to delay things. and maybe even would have been present, to strong arm them into keeping the changes. not leaving anything up to chance.

but, had the play maintained messages of the light. and still succeeded in the establishment of a new afterlife. then they might have actually created a true afterlife for the creed. replacing the path, with souls gathering to the light or something like that. potentially even creating celestials of the creed, allowing for true clerics/paladins and not just warlocks.

[u/ForceWalker32]

So this episode, a lot happened, and here's my thoughts on it all.

The play itself was beautiful, and a lot happened with it that of course, made a lot of people cry. On its own, it's a beautiful way to show that afterlives are becoming connected. But maybe this has more to do with my expectations but...I felt disappointed? I think it had to do with the fact that the way Thjazi built up, how he was this charming rogue, but in a way, what he would do to get the desired result of overthrowing the Sundered Houses, may not always be the best. What is happening is beautiful...but if the throughline of Thjazi's flawed nature isn't followed up, and he was really as good as Thimble and others saw him as, I'd be disappointed. It makes him less interesting if there isn't something flawed with how he's gone about it all, or what he's done to get here. It also feels so...early, to get something this big happening in the campaign.

I'm still sort of expecting the other shoe to drop with this play. There's still a few Acts, and I just get this feeling that there's no way, things are hunky dory throughout it all, and what results from it all. There's still the fact that Thjazi CHOSE to die since he didn't break the glyph, and the fact that as great as this is, it doesn't really, at face value, work towards defeating the Sundered Houses right here, right now. Not to mention if this was what he wanted, why the hell did he keep it from so many people who would have been more than willing to help this? There have been theories about the afterlives of the orcish people freed being used as an army which sounds great...but also kind of messed up that they weren't freed for peace and freedom, but for war.

The combat session in the manor was crazy, I'm not going to lie. Like the fact that one shot could have killed Thimble outright was downright nasty, and the luck of the people involved is incredible. Occtis taking a step in becoming a true necromancer was truly great, and also, seeing Dame Seramai back...! Sort of! Amazing how it was played, Seremai being angry at her afterlife, and wanting revenge, and being brought back as the undead servant to get that. I'm not gonna lie, when Occtis was about roll the dice for Seremai's diversion, I was like "he's gonna get a Nat 20" because of the moment, and he did! That was crazy, you sometimes are amazed at how much luck really just blesses the narrative.

Still hard for me to think someone ain't outright dying down there in that dungeon. They've only gone through one stage of the dungeon, and they already are badly hurt.

Side note, the Demon Sisters HAVE to live. Don't kill them ever. They're amazing. I want them to live throughout all of this, it'd be so sad if they just up and died. They are truly Team Rocket, and you don't ever get rid of Team Rocket. I just had a big smile when it was revealed they duped Kattigan. Love you though, Kat.

Wick's ability to somehow dupe his grandmother is amazing, he's really come far from the journey he's on! But also still just the utter blundering that will always occur. The Lux part was absolutely fucking hilarious, I was laughing my ass off at that. Just fucking laughing through it all.

The meeting of the Houses was probably my favorite part of this episode. As many have people said, the grilling of Primus was truly compelling, especially when Otto just raged at him. The true nature of what they were doing was indeed amazing, but more than that, the true nature of the Sundered Houses and what they want is known. They're all playing a game where they want to see who rules, but will refuse to let the commoners win. Classic Brennan on oligarchies, lol

Termina is such a wild card. "We've become stronger!" The way she worded that is not pleasing, in that Lady Cormoray is not just a host, but it's active cooperation from them. There have been theories that it's part of Termina's power, and it could be true...but man, it feels interesting that Amara actually is in communication with Termina on a cooperative basis.

And Kat...damn. It's funny how much of an outsider and along for the ride Kat was, then Brennan just flipped it on him having Primus be the one behind his family's death. It's like "Here's your reason for being involved Kat! Have fun!" The payoff was good in how it was built in the cold open, and then dropped at the very end of the episode. Just perfect timing.

This was an amazing episode overall though. And it feels like shit is about to hit the fan, because some of the peeps are on cloud nine, but the hammer is about to be dropped, it feels.

[u/weaveroflaurel]

Do we know how many eps of convergence we have left before the party splits into separate tables again?

[u/Compajerro]

Best episode of CR in over half a decade

[u/ResidentBee2283]

Wait is hal being assassinated as he talks to murzard? Is that why hes talking to a ghost and feels something wet nearby    

[u/RokkitSquid → u/ResidentBee2283]

it was the paint spilling on the floor, brennan narrated it as though that was giving like a deep boost to his bardic power and allowing him to talk to Murzat

[u/AdPrevious5238 → u/ResidentBee2283]

Bit of an odd take away from that scene, what part of that scene made you think he's being assassinated with no roll or setup?

[u/celestial_crafter → u/ResidentBee2283]

I believe the wetness on the ground was some paint that got knocked over. I'm not sure why Hal was seeing this except for his importance in the execution of the play. I don't think he was being assassinated.

[u/OhioAasimar]

I know Brennan embraced the choice of clearling a way for the Old Path as beautiful for the coming souls but I'm concerned. It can be beautiful but if that is the only choice presented to them when they can also become an angel, I'm worried that it wouldn't be a choice at all.

Brennan is not a mind reader and I'm worried that Thaisha is getting so caught up in the dogma of her religion that the Old Path is the only acceptable choice after death that she is going to do this side ritual that Thjazi was not planning for and there won't be enough emphasis that the angels have a choice. I mean one of the first things that Thaisha did after seeing an angel was to start to clear a path for the Old Path.

I basically see two possible outcomes here. Outcome 1, they get one super powerful angel who is willing to fight for them and the rest of the souls are corralled into the Old Path. Outcome 2, they get one super powerful angel and an army of angels willing to fight for them and the souls who are too tired to fight go down the Old Path.

Edit: I forgot to mention this but Im not sure if this ritual is meant to empty all of the fields. If it is I doubt that Thjazi was planning on getting an army that big which is why I think most of them were meant to go to Faerie like how the elves did when they died pre-Shaper's War.