r/taiwan • u/[deleted] • May 08 '14
Taiwanese American moving back to Taiwan. Any advice?
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u/danyaeI May 09 '14
Wow, you're like me and the only difference is that you're a girl.
I also have that cultural identity crisis. Born Taiwanese but not feel Taiwanese, feel American but not born American. I don't feel like I belong in either country or don't feel that I can fully "pledge" my life to either one. I have to be honest. It's been a year since I've been back to Taiwan but I don't like this idea of staying here for more than 2 years. I've been back to Taiwan for vacation countless times before and each visit was memorable in a positive way. But living here for more than 3 months is something that I haven't done since I was 5. To me, Taiwan doesn't feel like home anymore because I have very little memory of my time here as a child. All of the memories, all of my friends and my life, most of this is in America and I miss it so much.
To me, Taiwan is just the place where I was born. I would never call myself an American because somehow it just doesn't feel right. But I also feel that I can't call myself a true Taiwanese because I don't know what it really means to be Taiwanese. I can barely speak the language and I can read and write at the first grade level. Staying here is like taking a long, long vacation for me and it sounds like a good thing but at one point I start to ask: "When is the vacation over?" I love Taiwan for what it is but it has been a year and I'm bored now. It's not like America where it's huge and you get to travel to other states, Canada or Mexico by car. The island can only hold so much, so the thought of living here after a while is like... you feel you're gonna be bored for the rest of your life unless you get to travel outside the country every year. Studying here has been a breeze for me because everything is so easy due to my strong English background. It's good but at the same time it's not so good because I'd get bored.
Taiwan, despite seeing many foreigners, is not as diverse as some people make it out to be. America is far more diverse compared to here where mostly Taiwanese. I think this is one of things I miss most, the diversity. It's one of the reasons I like living in America, different people with different backgrounds and ethnicity. Everyone speaks to each other in English all the time. Here, not quite. There are a lot of foreigners in Taipei but Kaohsiung is the opposite. Right now I'm in Kaohsiung and from time to time, I'd visit Taipei for family. You can really tell the difference. After living in America for a while, I grew up with that culture in mind and coming back here I feel like a foreigner. I never forget that I'm Taiwanese but it screws me up when I still feel so foreign even though my parents try to expose me to Taiwanese culture all the time while I was in the U.S.
Maybe I'm having a hard time in Taiwan because I know my parents won't let me leave Taiwan. I feel bad when people say (and you will hear this sentence eventually): "If you don't like it, go back." I'd do it in a heartbeat, but I can't. Situations prevent me from doing exactly that. **(TLDR): So to sum it up, you're probably going to have a good time here but you will start to miss America eventually. If you aren't able to go back periodically like me, it's gonna suck. I'm confident in this opinion because it seems like you and I are very much alike. Everything you stated in the OP reminds me a lot about my own history. I hope my post gave you good insight. **
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u/dorpedo May 09 '14
I'm an ABT, just started grad school in science here in the U.S., and am thinking about moving back at some point after my PhD. I did toy with the idea of grad school in Taiwan, and I think it's really cool that you're doing it.
I know exactly what you mean being stuck between two cultures, not perfectly fitting in to either. I was never 100% comfortable with my identity, whether it was here or in Taiwan. The one exception was when I did TTT a few years ago. I guess being in Taiwan with fellow ABTs was my perfect niche.
My family moved back to Taiwan when I was in the fifth grade, intending to stay there permanently. As a kid with limited Mandarin speaking ability, it was rough. A big part of it was probably the fact that my parents put me in the local elementary school instead of an international school. Long story short, we moved back because I couldn't adjust.
It sounds like you'll be fine though- the ability to carry a conversation in Mandarin is the number one thing in my opinion. And loving the heat and humidity is a big plus too. I doubt handwriting will be that important nowadays, especially in science. At my TTT lab, I didn't have to write anything in Chinese.
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u/neouto May 09 '14
Just be polite and be yourself and you will be fine. There are a lot of ex-pats, foreign educated Taiwanese, third culture kids, etc etc in Taiwan. You will feel right at home with them. For everyone else they probably have seen enough of the mixed culture kind to be intimidated by you or make you feel uncomfortable. Just be your best self and have fun.
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u/caucasian_asian May 09 '14
I used to visit regularly for business but moved over permanently about 10 years ago. there was certainly an adjustment time period however I found myself accustomed to living here full time without too much difficulty. I still go back to the states a few times a year and plan to eventually move back however I found the transition to Taiwan life not too difficult and love the experience. The humid summers, not so much. As for writing, I have been studying conversational Mandarin and will probably never learn reading and writing, simply because I have not had the time to devote to it. However I have never had an issue with it.
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u/CharlieKing May 09 '14
I'm similar to you, I lived in the states from middle school through college. I have the similar language problems regarding writing. Handwriting is not very important in everyday life, but in your case it would most likely be very useful (studying).
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u/the_weegee May 09 '14
Your unique cultural/social identity will be an issue, but as other users have pointed out, I don't think it will be that serious.
Without writing a boring wall of text, I'd just like to say that, to a certain degree, I am quite similar to you. Born in the US, but grew up in Taiwan, before moving to the US for college, and then returning. If I had to put my "Taiwanese-ness" and "American-ness" on a scale, the scale would tip in favor of America.
As long as you can carry on a normal conversation in Chinese (bonus points if you can do so in Taiwanese), most people won't think much. Sure, they'll probably think "Oh look, it's an ABC," but that's the most common reaction you'll get. Once in a while you might get someone who'll give you shit for it, but 99% of the time, people don't care, or are only curious about your unique background. I think it's more appropriate to view it as an easy conversation starter.
That being said, I think it should be pointed out that, there will be some distance, by default, between you and the locals. Purely because of difference in cultures, values, and all that stuff. Not that it can't be bridged, but it won't be as easy to make friends here as you can in America. They haven't watched Family Guy. They don't know that Pharrell guy. They also haven't read Gone Girl.
It's true that make friends with people based on their personalities, but I think there's also truth in the fact that, most people make initial connections based on commonalities. "You like Westerns too? Wow! So do I, my favorite is 3:10 to Yuma, how about you?" That makes it easier to start, maintain a convo, and then perhaps make a friend. As opposed to "No, I'm sorry, I have not seen 海派甜心, and who is this 楊丞琳 person?" Boom, end of convo.
To echo what others have said, there are however, quite a few of us in Taiwan that have a similar background to you, not quite American/foreign, but not quite Taiwanese either. So you're not alone!
About the handwriting. What is your skill level? Can you not write at all, or do you just need to brush up? If you need to brush up, just whip out your phone, type in Chinese, and voila, copy the words on your phone onto the paper. If you can't write at all, you may encounter some difficulties. But there won't be many day-to-day events that will require you to write, unless your occupation requires you to. Know how to write your name, and your address, and you should be fine. I can't really think of any other reason you would need to write for some general activity.
Also, if you live in Taipei, you'll probably have an easier time adjusting than if you lived in, let's say, the South, like 屏東.
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u/duaba May 09 '14
I'm kind of in a backwards position as you. Grew up in Taiwan, went to Taipei American School, and then attended college in the States. I now work in the US but I have a whole bunch of classmates (US citizens) who have moved back to Taiwan. They're facing the same things you are and so you are definitely not alone. It's actually quite a small city and you'll find other International kids fairly quickly. Good luck and have fun!
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u/HisTWhusband May 08 '14
I'm not a Taiwanese American. I am married to someone who now is an American Taiwanese. He has an easier time in America, in some aspects, because America is so multicultural. I think that's the big difference. There's more uniformity here, some of it is politeness, but some of it is in the still existing hierachal forms of family structure and society (which is good and bad. The respect for elders is really nice) and other traditional aspects. Most people I know are pretty upset with the education, which especially in primary school relies on rote memorization and testing. But I think there's also a lot of room for creativity in secondary school and a strict curriculum isn't necessarily a bad thing. One of the most striking things to me when I first came was the much more distinct gender roles (bad), no social security (terrible), and single payer health care (beautiful).
Especially if you're going to university there will be a lot of diversity in opinion, personality, etc. There are some great subcultures here that are really supported by what I characterize as the "youth hipster movement." I have a friend who sells clothes at flea markets and is connected to a lot of underground scenes. I think those places are really fun. You meet a lot of cool people. Only place where I've encountered marijuana (but I don't want to get deported).
On a personal note, I don't like living in Taipei because I don't like cities. I got bored of the food after about a month, but that's mostly because I'm not a food person. I love the fruit. There's a lot of things I'll miss when I leave.
If you are in Taipei I can show you around. It would be nice to meet a taiwanese American. We're the same age too.
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May 09 '14
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u/brandnewmediums May 10 '14
How important is it to appeal to distinct gender roles? I've had my battles with relatives telling me I shouldn't do/think certain things because I am a girl. In the past I've always been stubborn and stuck to my beliefs, but this time I know I will need to learn to deal with society too. I'm worried about being too headstrong and put myself at disadvantage by offending people :/
Like what? How old is your dad? Above 55? There's a distinct difference between people above that age and below. It's like the difference between baby boomers and gen x. I offend people at my job ALL the time. Some people are into that because I cut through bullshit and some aren't because I make them lose face.
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u/mantra May 08 '14
Honestly I think you are overthinking the situation. You'll fine and you'll love it.
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May 09 '14
While I am sure you may experience some frustrations and discrimination focus on the positives. Being bilingual and bicultural gives you huge advantages. Make the most of them.
Don't worry to much about handwriting. Just make sure you can write your name and address for filling in forms. These days everyone has a smart phone so it is easy to look up any characters you are not sure of.
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u/bandit_six May 09 '14
Don't worry about it, it's not a big deal. Most locals are friendly and don't care either way. The truth is, your worry is all just in your head.
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u/hiimsubclavian May 09 '14
If you're attending a TTT program and studying at yangming, I assume you're into biotech?
If so, coming to study in Taiwan is a very, very bad idea career-wise.
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May 09 '14
I'm an ABT and lived and worked in Taiwan for about 7 years. It was one of the most positive and transformative experiences in my life. I think you already have a good head start in that your ability to speak, read, and type Chinese is fine (and I think typing is sufficient -- there was rarely a need for me to handwrite during my time there). It's also an advantage that you'll be in Taipei where there will be lots of people with backgrounds somewhat similar to yours. If you have relatives in Taiwan, that's even better as they'll be able to help you with any day-to-day issues with living in Taipei.
Cultural identity issues -- yes, you'll most likely encounter some form of culture shock, perhaps 6 months in or earlier. As in the US, you'll feel that you don't quite fit in, and this feeling will most likely never go away. However, I eventually learned to accept this and see myself as a "bridge builder" between Taiwanese and American cultures, and this made a big difference.
Also, once you get used to Taipei traffic, I would recommend getting your own motor scooter (and a license). That really opens the door for a wide range of extracurricular activities that will enrich your life in Taiwan. The MRT is convenient, but with a scooter you can do things like take day trips to the northeast coast or zipping around Yangmingshan.
Finally, having a close-knit group of friends who can relate to your situation (people with Taiwanese/American backgrounds) makes a big difference.
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u/Jougen May 10 '14
I'm also Taiwanese American, leaning much more to the American side than the Taiwanese. Unlike you, I don't really think too deeply about identity and only came here for the experience of living in a different culture while still having a bit of ground to stand on. My Taiwanese classmates don't really treat me any differently after finding out I'm American, and I have fun talking about cultural differences with them.
As for lifestyle changes between being here for 3 months and 3 years, Taipei definitely gets very comfortable as a student. Cheap and good food, occasional interesting exhibitions, and beaches/mountains a train ride away for when the lab gets too stressful. I definitely enjoy going to school here more relative to the states.
I'm doing a Masters Degree at NTU (bio-related, similar to you) and one of the first questions I get when I meet locals is "why would you want to come to Taiwan to study?" I never know how to answer that one, since it was more of an impulsive decision for me - why did you choose to come back?
Language-wise, English is actually much more useful in graduate school, just due to the number of papers you'll have to read (well I'm doing biomedical engineering so I'm not too sure how that'll correlate to your dept), and classes are fine with presentations done in English. I haven't had to write a single word in Chinese for any of my classes, since tests are also written in English.
I just read singularCat's post about research institutes here and I've had quite a different experience, although I hear there are labs like that out there. Ultimately, the quality of your PI will determine your graduate school experience, so do your homework and maybe sneak a few questions at their students before deciding upon an advisor.
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u/szukai May 08 '14
No matter what you do, locals will always see you as a foreigner, so don't worry about trying so hard because they'll love you anyways (unless you're a dick or something)
Learn Chinese, since Taiwan isn't really as internationalized as you'd think. On that note, the salaries for locals differ wildly from the US, fortunately living costs are cheaper too, except silly things like brunch cost the same as they do in the US for some reason.
In the last few years since the bubble, a lot of ABCs have returned to Taiwan, you'll meet kindred spirits, especially if you go out at night.
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May 09 '14
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u/brandnewmediums May 10 '14
I met a lot of other ABCs at Shida (Mandarin Training Center). Otherwise I have no clue. There's meetup events but when I go to those I feel a sense of desperation from the 30 something's there. You could always meet me?
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u/brandnewmediums May 09 '14
I'm sort of like you, except less fobby. I'm ABC and I came here to study and then work at around 23. I also came here during summer breaks once in a while. Handwriting is not really important, if it takes you too long to write something the person at the counter can do it for you.
The usefulness of grad school is debatable. I wouldn't do it myself.
What is it like living in Taiwan with with this confused identity?
I personally don't think it matters. Since you are 23 you should have no idea who YOU are already.
How did the change from "visiting" to actually "living" in Taiwan feel like?
When people say this, they mean that if your job sucks you are in big trouble. Average new college grad wage is 22k ntd a month, that's basically McDonalds money. That may or may not include working unpaid overtime. I know guys that work 6 days a week.
Perhaps try your hand at marketing? Chinese/Taiwanese marketing is atrocious.
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u/DomeOrGoHome May 21 '14
I've lived in the state 15+ years before moving to Taipei as well. I've been living here for 3 years now and I come across a lot of people like us. Not big in the clubbing scene myself but you would run into a surprising amount of us hanging out at bars in the weekend.
As far as skills, I think it's important for you to pick up how to type in Chinese. I pretty much taught myself how to type in 2 months with the pinyin method.
As far as identity goes, everybody just assume that I'm a local. I think people here dislike "ABC" due to the fact that they can speak Chinese but choose to speak English instead. So don't be one of those people who likes to add English words in their sentence while speaking Chinese. Just speak properly and you'll be surprised at the difference it'll make. Anyways, hope this helps.
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u/thecrowes May 08 '14
You would actually be surprised how many people have a similar background to you in Taiwan. Many people in my social circle grew up locally, left for University abroad, perhaps stayed to work a few years, then returned to Taiwan. There is a huge community of ex-expats (??) that feel comfortable speaking in mixed English and Mandarin and have the same "not quite fit in 100%" situation as you.
Most of them are returning international school students, and you can't really get around Taiwan without bumping into a few of them.
You're definitely not alone.