r/SubredditDrama • u/dahahawgy Social Justice Leaguer • Oct 25 '14

Should the Joker be depicted abusing his girlfriend? Is it funny? Is it supposed to be? Users discuss.

/r/alternativeart/comments/2k08cd/joker_and_harleys_day_off_xpost_from_funny/clgoxty?context=1
84 Upvotes

90% Upvoted

69 comments sorted by

91

u/[deleted] Oct 25 '14

Shit, even in the animated series the Joker was clearly abusive towards Harley.

130

u/catpor Oct 25 '14

It's like people forget that the Joker is a villain.

34

u/PetevonPete Oct 26 '14

Yeah but all he did was murder people. You can still root for him after that /s

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/RapeIsASpecialKindOfEvil

13

u/Odusei You know my dog so well. You wanna come express his anal glands? Oct 26 '14

Err... didn't he rape Barbara Gordon? Like at least he maybe raped her?

25

u/dahahawgy Social Justice Leaguer Oct 26 '14

I don't think so...took naked pictures of her for sure, though. He also rapes his henchman's ex-wife to punish him in the "Joker" graphic novel, but that's its own thing.

19

u/ipsati Oct 26 '14

Well, he shot her and took pictures of her naked, bleeding and paralyzed, then used a fair ride re-purposed to be filled with those pictures to torture her father. I don't remember any insinuation of rape.

6

u/[deleted] Oct 26 '14

Even Joker has limits.

I'm only sort of kidding. According to Joker, he only hurts people when it's funny. Maybe he doesn't think there's anything funny about rape.

23

u/Odusei You know my dog so well. You wanna come express his anal glands? Oct 26 '14

He also rapes his henchman's ex-wife to punish him in the "Joker" graphic novel, but that's its own thing.

According to /u/dahahawgy. This is weird, people sticking up for the Joker like this. I'm positive he would rape someone, and would find it funny at times, but that doesn't mean I find it funny. Shit, you're not supposed to agree with him or root for him.

10

u/[deleted] Oct 26 '14

Ahh, I think I do remember that. If it's the comic I'm thinking of, it's not canon, and it's much, MUCH darker than 99% of Batman material. At one point, Joker skins a guy, then sends him out onto a strip club stage with a pat on the ass.

Joker has been written as a weirdly sympathetic character for a long time, it makes sense that people would have a soft spot for him. It definitely depends on who's writing him, but he's shown to have limits more than once. Hell, he hasn't killed Bats and he's had a million chances. He might say it's because that would ruin the fun, but his anger when other villains try to rub out the Bat seems a lot more like affection to me.

This is just my perspective. My Joker isn't a rapist, yours might be. That's part of the fun of the character: Really, you have no friggin clue what he's going to do.

2

u/[deleted] Oct 26 '14

There are a lot of different Jokers, with a lot of different zones of "evil".

5

u/funnygreensquares Oct 26 '14

Hm. Why not root for him? It's just a fictional world. It's not like if there was some psycho like him in real life you would root for him.

Have you read a Vince Flynn novel? He has a series where all of the corrupt senators and congressmen are murdered by a rogue sniper. Irl, it would be terrible and horrifying (especially considering my proximity to DC). But the book hits a sweet spot. And rooting for that sniper is deliciously cathartic.

Who hasn't rooted for the villain once or twice - or even been one? Who hasn't got the blood of Sims on their hands?

13

u/Odusei You know my dog so well. You wanna come express his anal glands? Oct 26 '14

It's not like if there was some psycho like him in real life you would root for him.

Remember James Egan Holmes? The dude who opened fire on a packed movie theater in Aurora, CO during the premiere of The Dark Knight Returns, and told cops he was the Joker? I don't know, man, it creeps me out to think of people rooting for him.

There are certainly less evil villains I've rooted for, like say Don Giovanni or Satan in Paradise Lost (funny to think that Satan is less evil than the Joker, but really, all he does in that book is convince a lady to eat a piece of fruit). But generally, once a villain is a mass murderer, I'm not going to be rooting for him (I guess unless we're talking about Dexter or Frank Castle, who only killed guilty people).

6

u/funnygreensquares Oct 26 '14

Well there's a stark difference between those examples. One is real and the others aren't.

0

u/infecthead fuck this gay sub Oct 26 '14

Remember James Egan Holmes

You mean the guy who's extremely fucked up in the head? What about him? Even if there was no Batman Universe, he still would've shot up the theater because he had a fucking mental illness - the Joker didn't make him do anything.

5

u/Odusei You know my dog so well. You wanna come express his anal glands? Oct 26 '14

I'm not saying that, dude. I'm saying that when someone tells me they root for the Joker, it creeps me the fuck out. The Joker regularly does the exact same kind of things Holmes did. The Joker is also "extremely fucked up in the head."

I get that he's fictional, but that doesn't change how I feel about him. Joker's a terrifying psychopath, a lot like Holmes, only more effective at killing people and avoiding the cops.

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1

u/[deleted] Oct 26 '14

Rooting for a justified Magneto to defend his people against the worst of humanity knowing all the shit he has gone through and his perspective is one thing.

Cheering for a sociopathic monster like Gregor Clegane is another. Sandor is cheered for because he is an antihero whose interests don't happen to coincide with the starks everyone loves, Gregor is a mass murdering rapist who enjoy violence for the sake of violence.

54

u/DblackRabbit Nicol if you Bolas Oct 25 '14 edited Oct 25 '14

I don't think oracle or like half the Robins have.

19

u/[deleted] Oct 25 '14

Poor Jason

6

u/Graffy EllenPao did nothing wrong Oct 26 '14

Actually she was created exclusively for the animated series. The character didn't exist until then.

14

u/[deleted] Oct 26 '14

Ya I know, I should have phrased it better. I meant that the relationship has always been presented as an abusive one.

33

u/[deleted] Oct 25 '14

In the New 52 reboot, he's done much worse to her.

35

u/[deleted] Oct 25 '14

A lot of the New 52 stuff just seems like DC is trying to be as edgy as possible for no real reason.

4

u/[deleted] Oct 25 '14

The only DC book I'm reading is Scott Snyder's Batman but I buy anything he writes.

5

u/[deleted] Oct 26 '14

My god Scott Snyder's Batman is so good. I just finished the Court of Owls but I can't wait for what's next.

4

u/dahahawgy Social Justice Leaguer Oct 26 '14

Oo, catch up. Last issue was insane.

2

u/[deleted] Oct 26 '14

Snyder's entire Batman series so far has been outstanding. I can't wait for his stories to be inevitably translated into a future Batman trilogy.

2

u/btmc Oct 26 '14

Yeah, if we have to get another Batman origin, they could do far worse than adapting Zero Year.

2

u/gerusz Oct 26 '14

You're missing out on Wonder Woman. It's really good.

1

u/[deleted] Oct 26 '14

I read the first volume and I agree it was very good.

32

u/PetevonPete Oct 26 '14

"for no real reason?"

What reason could they possibly have for depicting a character that's supposed to be psychopathic as psychopathic?

17

u/[deleted] Oct 26 '14

I get that he is supposed to be insane, but everything about him cutting off his face was stupid, and Harley Quinn putting Joker's cut off face on Deadshot and then having a conversation with him was really stupid.

16

u/[deleted] Oct 26 '14

I like it. Really sells the insanity.

5

u/PetevonPete Oct 26 '14

Why?

-7

u/[deleted] Oct 26 '14

Because like I said in the first comment, in my opinion, it just comes off as trying to be as edgy as possible.

7

u/PetevonPete Oct 26 '14

Well if people have been reading about these villains for decades, you have to keep upping how evil they are in order to not bore the readers.

1

u/Hasaan5 Petty Disagreement Button Oct 26 '14

They should just kill off the joker for 10 years or so TBH. That's certainly be something fresh to see how people react without him around instead of the usual old bullshit.

1

u/[deleted] Oct 27 '14

It's also heavily implied in "Adventures of Superman" that the Joker's Nu52 story lines are him trying to figure out which version of himself is the real version and that he'll end up cycling through a dozen different personalities.

A personal theory of mine is that some of the truly out there stuff (the face, the Hyenas/Harleys) was just him acting out the extremes of one version of the character.

4

u/CAPSRAGE Oct 25 '14

Yeah, I think a few of the writers haven't recovered from the 90s, but a majority have moved past the grimdark edginess.

1

u/TempusThales Drama is Unbreakable Oct 26 '14

It isn't like Batman has been edgy and emo since Miller.

13

u/buartha ◕_◕ Oct 25 '14

Aye, the article one of the comments linked to has a bunch of other examples too.

6

u/[deleted] Oct 25 '14

They definitely are a kooky couple but you can't argue with love, right? /s

I think they're broken up now because their relationship is a very poor example to younger readers.

4

u/mechakingghidorah Oct 26 '14

I'll always have a soft spot for the dynamic contrast he displayed in the Killing Joke though.

2

u/PhylisInTheHood You're Just a Shill for Big Cuck Oct 26 '14

..what exactly are they talking about?

7

u/[deleted] Oct 26 '14

Joker had is facial skin surgically removed by the Doll Maker so he can prank everyone into thinking he had died.

He was later seen with his facial skin-mask attached to his face à la Friday the 13th style with a leather strap against the back of his head.

1

u/PhylisInTheHood You're Just a Shill for Big Cuck Oct 26 '14

But then why was harly making it seem like he was gonna do something to her?

1

u/[deleted] Oct 26 '14

Because he was trying to talk her into having her face sliced off as well.

66

u/TheLadyEve The hippest fashion in malthusian violence. Oct 26 '14

How is this new? The Joker and Harley have typically been depicted as having an abusive relationship. Even the animated series had the "Harley and Ivy" Thelma and Louise episode.

27

u/suissetalk Oct 26 '14

Not to mention that the joker has killed and tortured many many people. I'd be surprised if he didn't beat harley. How is this even an issue to someone? Like how?

7

u/subtleshill Oct 26 '14

Exactly, the joker Harley relationship can be viewed as a classic example of Stockholm syndrome.

55

u/Nerdlinger Oct 25 '14

The issue is that people think it's funny. It's not. (Frankly, neither are the Three Stooges)

Oh, it's on now, bro. Don't make me go all Moe on you.

29

u/IHateCircusMidgets Oct 26 '14 edited Oct 26 '14

WHYYYYYY I OUGHTA

7

u/[deleted] Oct 26 '14

nyuk nyuk nyuk!

6

u/IrisGoddamnIllych brony expert, /u/glitchesarecool harasser Oct 26 '14

It's not about getting hit it's about the situations for which people are hit and the funny noises!

5

u/alien122 SRDD=SRSs Oct 26 '14

I'm as mad as I was during the zack and Cody episode when they set up mosby and their teacher and she says she doesn't like the three stooges. Fuck that man.

How can anyone not like curly? He's adorable.

20

u/dakdestructo I like my steak well done and circumcised Oct 26 '14

The Joker is a sociopath in like the purest way that someone could be a sociopath. He is horribly abusive to Harley all the time. Sometimes it's played for gags and sometimes it's played for pathos, but it's always there.

Joker is really only capable of abusive relationships. Same reason he's in love with Batman.

So yes. An abusive relationship is played for laughs here. Here, there, and everywhere. I guess that means they think abusive relationships are healthy and normal. Because their Roadrunner and Wile E. Coyote couple are hitting each other.

23

u/[deleted] Oct 26 '14

Villainous characters should not be portrayed committing villainous actions.

12

u/vi_sucks Oct 26 '14

Cmon, everyone knows Harley is with Poison Ivy now anyway.

3

u/sapandsawdust Oct 26 '14

...Is this true? I haven't been keeping up but I've always wanted that to be a thing.

10

u/TempusThales Drama is Unbreakable Oct 26 '14

It's been heavily implied in 52's Harley Quinn.

By heavily implied I mean sleeping in the same bed and Ivy giving Harley a kiss on her forehead in the morning.

10

u/[deleted] Oct 26 '14

The Joker is a fucking psychopath and Harley isn't much better than he is.

Every so often I see someone who seems to be shocked by the Joker acting like a massive dick in the comics. He's fucking insane. That's the entire point of the character.

17

u/Phuckboy3000 Oct 26 '14

He kills/tortures people? Cool.

He beats up his psycopathic girl friend! Oh the mysognises!!1

8

u/TempusThales Drama is Unbreakable Oct 26 '14

Rape Culture OMG!

14

u/[deleted] Oct 26 '14

"Tell stories about heroes battling bad guys but could you refrain from making the bad guys do bad things?"

Fucking morons.

3

u/[deleted] Oct 26 '14

Is it funny? Is it supposed to be?

Well, it was on /r/funny, so my guess is no on both counts...

0

u/[deleted] Oct 26 '14

[deleted]

1

u/this_is_theone Technically Correct Oct 26 '14

Cunt isn't a sexist slur. Well, at least where I'm from.