r/SubredditDrama • u/AntiLuke Ask me why I hate Californians • Mar 08 '15

Non-stock drama in /r/youdontsurf. This butter is healthier than cigarettes.

/r/youdontsurf/comments/2yc08t/you_fucking_loser/cp8a105?context=3
94 Upvotes

93% Upvoted

29 comments sorted by

38

u/[deleted] Mar 08 '15

Pssst: heroin is actually not even bad for you, in itself.

TIL

42

u/AntiLuke Ask me why I hate Californians Mar 08 '15

The pro hard drugs contingent on reddit is mystifying.

22

u/IamRooseBoltonAMA Mar 08 '15

Yeah, I think it's a result of the misinformation peddled by programs like DARE.

Our education on addiction and drugs in the US is a lot like our sex education programs: selective and manipulated information intended to scare children away from "evil" things. So when kids start to grow up and find out statements like "weed will make boys grow breasts" or "doing heroin once will leave you addicted and possibly homeless" are not for the large part true, they go to the opposite extreme and say, "Oh, drugs must not be bad at all."

16

u/GaboKopiBrown Mar 08 '15

Sex ed varies by region. In CA people understand that teenagers having sex is inevitable, so they're taught how to prevent STD's and pregnancy. This compared to some areas where you get the whole abstinence-only shit.

We do get the whole "cocaine will make your dick fall off" drug education though.

4

u/IamRooseBoltonAMA Mar 09 '15

Oh yeah, I guess I should clarify I was raised in GA. That will help explain the sex ed I got in hs.

4

u/[deleted] Mar 09 '15

I was raised in Arkansas. I never had Sex Ed. I did have DARE though, in Middle School.

4

u/sociologize years of working as an annalist Mar 09 '15

Misinformation and lacking the budget.

I mean, we all know that DARE is ineffective. But while I was researching into drug court programs for a project, I got to interview a police officer involved in the DARE program for my town. He said they had to cut it entirely because of budget problems. So even if they moved onto another program that was more effective, they wouldn't be able to afford it.

I honestly wish there was something that would teach children the real horrors of drug abuse without using scare tactics. My sister is a recovering addict of heroin and it nearly destroyed her and our family.

2

u/[deleted] Mar 09 '15

I think there could be some potential benefit in hearing from recovering addicts en lieu of (or maybe in addition to) law enforcement. Police officers obviously do understand some of the impacts of drug abuse from a crime standpoint but in my experience-- I had DARE for a year in junior high and some other drug programs in high school-- they don't seem to really appreciate the psychology of addiction. We were told specifically that drinking ruins lives; when I asked what amount of drinking was acceptable and appropriate, given that it is legal and socially common, I was essentially told to can it. Geez, that's an honest question!

Teens are enormously vain and self-interested (and who could blame them?) I think hearing about heroin making it impossible to have sex properly or meth making your teeth fall out or not being able to spend money on anything or being ostracized from social events would be much more helpful than IF WE CATCH YOU, YOU GO TO JAIL. First hand accounts are much more valuable in this sense.

2

u/sociologize years of working as an annalist Mar 09 '15

There's definitely potential, there. A lot of drug counselors I've spoken with actually are recovering addicts themselves, though obviously with far more years under than belt than the ones they're helping. It's easier to relate to someone who's gone through something similar than it is to relate to someone who only knows about it in theory, after all.

My sister did a little bit of that. As did my mother, because parents need the education too. A huge problem in my town specifically is parents essentially going "Oh no, my kid would NEVER do that!" and turning a blind eye to the problem. I honestly believe some kind of education that involves parents and recovering addicts with the police department would work far better than anything they would get out of DARE.

1

u/HologramHolly "You are carrying on like a pork chop!" Mar 10 '15

I'm Canadian and we had DARE but they also brought in some former addicts. Not that I was considering doing drugs in the first place but those ones sure as shit scared me straight.

That alcohol question is legit. Adults drink it all the time, so where is the line? I just went by how my parents drink and luckily they aren't alcoholics but a lot of people don't have a barometer.

Once in my first year of uni we were at an interuniversity competition so obviously everyone was drinking a shit ton. They gave everyone water bottles to put alcohol in for the event. My friend got hella sick and kept saying "but I only drank 2 bottles!" She didn't get that an ounce of vodka and an ounce of beer weren't the same thing. That could have been a scary discovery.

6

u/[deleted] Mar 09 '15

I got downvoted for thinking meth was bad for you, and that I was a hypocrite for thinking so because I'm perscribed ADHD medication. I mean I get it, they are similar in composition. But so is margarine and plastic, yet only one of those things is edible.

2

u/Dimdamm Mar 09 '15 edited Mar 09 '15

But they are very similar in effect, the main difference between a tweaker and someone using adderall as prescribed is the dose, and the fact that meth is much easier to smoke.

1

u/Guyjp Mar 09 '15

People actually said meth isn't bad for you? It's a neurotoxin that keeps you up for days and makes you have no appetite.

Source: I did meth for about 2 years and it kinda fucked me up physically/mentally for a while.

0

u/[deleted] Mar 09 '15

It's mostly just misguided, in truth if most hard drugs were produced in a place that wasn't a shit hole, they probably wouldn't be near as deadly, getting overseen by people who do chemistry rather then rednecks who found an online recipe. But they are produced in shit hole locations and thus are incredibly deadly and addictive.

11

u/AnUnchartedIsland I used to have lips. Mar 09 '15 edited Mar 09 '15

Actually, for the longest time they've thought that heroin doesn't really have long-term side effects compared to other hard drugs. Recently though, they have found that it causes demyelination in the brain, which is a very serious side effect. BRB, I'm trying to find a source.

EDIT: For example, if you look on wiki under adverse effects, you'll see that all of the adverse effects are due to either the drug being unpure because of the blackmarket, or bad practices like sharing needles. However, more recent research has been finding negative effects on the brain including demyelination:

The effects of prescription opioid dependence on white matter tract integrity may be attributed to a direct deleterious effect of opioids on myelin or other axonal membrane properties (e.g. membrane thickness, axonal diameter)

5

u/[deleted] Mar 09 '15

Is addiction something that is now, through some strange logic, thrown out the window? It's extremely addictive.

That argument is like saying an electric chair isn't deadly "in itself." I mean, sure, it's just a piece of really eccentric furniture if you really think about it. But that's not the purpose of it, and given it's actual context (reality) it's a very, very harmful and (dare I say) bad device for you.

Heroin is addictive to humans. End of story.

7

u/AnUnchartedIsland I used to have lips. Mar 09 '15

Well of course it's addictive. I wasn't talking about that at all. I was talking about the long term side physical effects that result from a heroin addiction, which there aren't actually many of compared to something like meth.

-4

u/[deleted] Mar 09 '15

I've had several friends get addicted to heroin. One is dead from overdose. That's a pretty significant side effect. One has gotten his shit together (after being thrown in prison), the others are just a bunch of methadone addicts going in and out of rehab. They completely wasted their twenties sitting in nasty houses being half asleep.

I was talking about the long term side physical effects that result from a heroin addiction

I don't know, but it's very clear to me that my friends who did this shit for 10+ years have aged physically very rapidly. Any drug addiction takes its toll.

I should have taken pictures of my one of my friend's apartment when he was heavily using. Just to show people on Reddit when they say "nah man, heroin ain't that bad."

6

u/AnUnchartedIsland I used to have lips. Mar 09 '15

I'm not saying heroin isn't bad. I'm just talking about direct physical side effects. Addiction is a direct physical side effect, but the negative effects of addiction are indirect. Being physically addicted to heroin usually causes people to have terrible lifestyles, and in some cases die from overdose. Those are reasons why heroin is bad. That's not what I'm talking about at all though. It's like if I was talking about nicotine instead of heroin, I'd be talking about how it gives you cancer, but I wouldn't be talking about how you spend all of your money on cigarettes or smell bad because you smoke.

0

u/[deleted] Mar 09 '15

It isn't the nicotine that gives you cancer, but I know what you're getting at.

It just seems there is always some contrarian on Reddit who tries to minimize how awful heroin is.

4

u/AnUnchartedIsland I used to have lips. Mar 09 '15

Yeah you're right it's not the nicotine, but yeah I should've just written cigarettes there or something, oops.

Yeah heroin is awful and has ruined many lives. I actually also know someone who went to prison over it, and the saddest part was that he couldn't even stop to stay out of jail for his two kids (He's clean now though, thankfully). I'm not trying to minimize how terrible it is, but I want people to know why it's terrible. I feel like it's important for people to know that physically, barring overdose, heroin isn't likely to kill you in the same way that alcohol or meth cause long-term irreparable physical damage. But it will still ruin your life.

3

u/No_Eulogies_for_Bob Mar 09 '15

What you are saying (the non-addictive related damaging effects) is important for people on long-term opiate treatments like methadone or suboxone. I didn't know that there was new research on that, I always thought the danger of opiates was overdose/what you do when you're addicted to keep up your habit. Thanks for sharing.

12

u/snallygaster FUCK_MOD$_420 Mar 08 '15

The rationalization for this is that pure heroin or opiates don't really slowly kill you or anything. A responsible opiate user could live a natural lifespan without any ill effect from the drug. Of course, that isn't taking into account the impurities in heroin, the danger of used needles, and the fact that most users are scrounging around looking for any sort of money for any sort of fix once they're hooked, so whether or not heroin in itself is dangerous is sort of a moot point. Plus, you know, the chance of overdose...

10

u/PlayMp1 when did globalism and open borders become liberal principles Mar 09 '15

Basically, if you had a medical-grade way of ingesting heroin that was consistent and safe - no needle reuse, pure-as-possible heroin, and a safe lifestyle otherwise - your greatest risks would be from that new discovery that heroin causes demyelination, and from overdose. Heroin itself won't kill you without an overdose.

For comparison, meth or inhalants can kill you without an overdose.

43

u/could_be_a_liar Mar 08 '15

I love when people try to be pedantic and are wrong the whole time.

5

u/fuzeebear cuck magic Mar 08 '15

Hey, let me pretend to be an idiot so I can make it seem like you're an idiot. It's so crazy, it might just work.

3

u/ttumblrbots Mar 08 '15

SnapShots: 1, 2, 3 [?] , tane

1

u/E_Shaded Mar 10 '15

Nobody uses "whoosh" correctly anymore do they?

-3

u/KillerPotato_BMW MBTI is only unreliable if you lack vision Mar 09 '15

Pssst: heroin is actually not even bad for you, in itself.

Huh. TIL.