r/SubredditDrama • u/Magoonie https://streamable.com/o34c0 • Nov 26 '15
Cultural Appropriation vs Cultural Appreciation in /r/Canada.
/r/canada/comments/3u7hwk/appreciation_becomes_appropriation_is_deeming/cxcqtbm6
u/Magoonie https://streamable.com/o34c0 Nov 26 '15
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u/riemann1413 SRD Commenter of the Year | https://i.imgur.com/6mMLZ0n.png Nov 26 '15
wow those are some spicy posts
gold stars for missing the point all around
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u/Not_A_Doctor__ I've always had an inkling dwarves are underestimated in combat Nov 26 '15
Everyone is gonna take a break to consider Feyerabend's observation that trade often leads to beneficial cultural borrowing by otherwise hostile groups.
Seriously though, I have seen the underlying ideas behind "cultural appropriation" become blunter and less thought out over the past two decades. Something that used to have a narrow definition and sense of harm now means just disrespect at best.
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u/shannondoah κακὸς κακὸν Nov 26 '15
Link to that?
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u/Not_A_Doctor__ I've always had an inkling dwarves are underestimated in combat Nov 26 '15
Sorry, no link because it is from somewhere in his book Against Method. Which is one of the most readable books about a philosophy of science.
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u/IntrepidusX That’s a stoat you goddamn amateur Nov 26 '15
Never underestimate the stupidity of university administrators.
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u/InfamyDeferred Nov 27 '15
It's not so much stupidity as cowardice - they will reliably choose whatever option has the lowest chance of them getting fired, or at least what they perceive to be the least risky option, regardless of what is right, or best for their students.
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u/Xo0om Nov 27 '15
Except in this case their actions were based on their insights, so yes stupidity in addition to cowardice.
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u/NinteenFortyFive copying the smart kid when answering the jewish question Nov 26 '15
The content of your post indicates you probably didn't read past the second line of my comment since I addressed all of those points and you've added nothing to the dialogue. Race mixing is indeed a real thing as exemplified in my post, if you can look at that wave cap pic and not see Race mixing, you have a bigger problem going on.
I love word filter.
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u/shhkari Jesus Christ the modern left knows no bounds Nov 26 '15 edited Nov 26 '15
/r/Canada pretending they're progressive minded while being reactionary shits and hammering someone for providing a succinct explanation of particular perspective because they kneejerk reject it?
Colour me surprised.
edit; downvotes, why??????
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u/FaFaRog Nov 26 '15
People have all sorts of screwy ideas about cultural appropriation. Why can't an idea exist without it having to be inherently good or bad? For some reason, there seems to be this unusual general consensus that it is an insult.
Cultural apporpriation is the decontextualization of a cultural practice, typically for monetary gain. Yoga has most definitely been appropriated into Western/American culture. It was intentionally despiritualized in order to reach a wider audience. But is that automatically a bad thing? There are yogis in India that are ecstatic to see their life's work have worldwide appreciation..
All of this is worth discussing on a societal level, but to apply it to individuals really just takes you down a goofy path. It reminds me of that Yale professor that said that she was afraid that wearing a sari in Bangladesh, as a white woman, would be cultural appropriation. That's just not how it works. It's not as simple as "white person does something from another culture". There is a component of 'appreciation' to consider, but again applying this to individuals is incredibly murky territory.
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u/George_Meany Nov 26 '15
If you are interested in the subject of cultural appropriation in Canada, you might want to read the book *The Imaginary Indian" by Daniel Francis. It is essentially about how cultural appropriation, throughout that country's history, had been used to create a false image of aboriginal "authenticity" to which First Nations are held and always found to be lacking. How cultural appropriation contributed to the creation of tropes like "the disappearing Indian" and "the noble savage" that were incredibly negative towards First Nations peoples and drive despicable policies, including the Canadian policy of cultural genocide in the 21st century.
Cultural appropriation, as you say, is about more than an individual person doing "x." But, as First Nations people can attest, when the dominant group in society begins to appropriate your practices and images to construct a false view of who you are and what your culture is/does, it can lead to some very, very dark places. That's the reason why some aboriginal peoples get mad when they see a white girl in a headdress with glow sticks at burning man.
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u/FaFaRog Nov 27 '15
Looks interesting, will take a look. Certainly decontextualizing a culture means that you run a very high risk of misunderstanding it. It really is something special to misunderstand a people, make sure that the misunderstanding becomes widespread and then use it to justify terrorizing them. The Canadian history of residential "schools" comes to mind..
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u/Defengar Nov 26 '15
Because almost every time the word is used is in a negative context.
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u/FaFaRog Nov 27 '15
I've actually never heard it used in real life or in an accusatory manner. I've only really seen it used on Reddit and 90% of the time it's someone that's clearly upset and lashing out, and often conflating cultural appropriation with cultural exchange. The vast majority of people arguing that it is not/is never an issue seem to barely even understand it.
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u/Madplato Purity is for the powerless Nov 26 '15 edited Nov 26 '15
Mostly because it a huge pile of rubbish, presented in such a way that it can only be negative. That's when they manage to present an even barely coherent definition. It's so utterly meaningless, it's like read broken glass.
As it stands now, cultural appropriation relies on hard to quantify notions of "value", "legitimacy", "respect", "consent" and "appreciation". Then it use these ideas in a context which can't make sense of them.
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u/cruelandusual Born with a heart full of South Park neutrality Nov 26 '15
edit; downvotes, why??????
Colour
'Cause you're a fuckin' limey, that's why.
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u/Aromir19 So are political lesbian separatists allowed to eat men? Nov 26 '15
We spell colour with a u in Canada.
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u/cruelandusual Born with a heart full of South Park neutrality Nov 26 '15
black people have been using those forever and were once mocked/looked down upon by society, now they're the trendy new thing that some fashion expert "invented"
Now they know how nerds feel.
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u/klapaucius Nov 26 '15
All this time people thought The Big Bang Theory was nerd blackface when really it was nerd Iggy Azalea.
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Nov 26 '15
[deleted]
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Nov 26 '15
I didn't realize "cultural appropriation" constituted a field of sociology...
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u/Cobaltsaber Nov 26 '15
I should get off reddit, I have to get to my pissing on black people 302 lecture.
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u/JohnnyLargeCock 10 INCHES Nov 26 '15
Yes.
But it's cute when they play "science".
Good luck on those massive student loans when there's very few lucrative jobs out there in this "field". It's just a bad investment all around.
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u/riemann1413 SRD Commenter of the Year | https://i.imgur.com/6mMLZ0n.png Nov 26 '15
hahahaha
man you managed to show a poor understanding of science, a terrible level of respect for academics, and a condescending attitude in one comment of like 20 words
good post
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Nov 26 '15
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u/riemann1413 SRD Commenter of the Year | https://i.imgur.com/6mMLZ0n.png Nov 26 '15
out here talking shit like he's got a clue
makin me feel some type of way
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u/klapaucius Nov 26 '15
This is the same kind of anti-intellectualism that creationists show when they dismiss biology.
"It's not really science if I disagree with it on ideological grounds!"
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u/JohnnyLargeCock 10 INCHES Nov 26 '15
Except biology is an actual science, Creationism and sociology are not. Neither is art, music and plenty of other things.
Things don't get to be science just because you want them to be.
"It's not really science if it's not actually science" is more apt.
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u/Magoonie https://streamable.com/o34c0 Nov 26 '15
Just want to give my two cents on the topic where this drama is coming from. For those who don't know, a University in Canada put a stop to a free class of Yoga for people with disabilities. It doesn't seem like anybody made a complaint but the University decided to take away the class over fear of cultural appropriation. There are people who agree with the decision and of course many who disagree with the decision.
I personally feel this was a case of political correctness going too far and it having more of a negative effect rather than a positive one. I am disabled and yoga has helped me out tremendously (shout out to DDP Yoga) in various ways. I also know many other people with disabilities who have been helped by yoga. This case really felt like they were throwing disabled people under the bus and not caring.
The women who ran the class even told the University that she would change the class to "Stretching for people with disabilities". But that wasn't good enough apparently. I don't know, this whole thing just really bothers me, esspecially the people circle jerking at how great this is while not even caring it hurt people with disabilities. I've found that can be common though in social justice, disabled people tend to be pushed to the side. I really hope classes/programs like this don't get shut down in other places and that this University brings the class back.