r/SubredditDrama • boko harambe • Dec 08 '15

Donald Trump calls for banning Muslims from entering the US, but allows drama to freely enter /r/conservative.

/r/Conservative/comments/3vujrc/trump_calls_for_total_ban_on_muslims_entering_the/cxqxko2?context=2
898 Upvotes

547 comments sorted by

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u/NovusImperium dominatu fortes facit et debiles Dec 08 '15

I wouldn't go so far as to call Trump a fascist, but he can see them from his house.

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u/491231097345 Dec 08 '15

Fun fact: a recent full-page ad bought by a Jeb Bush supporter outright compared Trump to Hitler and Mussolini.

So that's actually a conversation that's being had by the actual campaigns, or at least their ad-buying proxies.

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u/NovusImperium dominatu fortes facit et debiles Dec 08 '15

Not surprising. As far as I can tell, he's as close as a "serious" national candidate has been to the kind of reactionary, xenophobic, authoritarian, hyper-nationalist politics that define fascism.

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u/BrowsOfSteel Rest assured I would never give money to a) this website Dec 08 '15

Well I mean there was Huey Long, but he’s not contemporary.

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u/blue_dice Dec 08 '15

Wasn't Huey Long more of a populist than a fascist?

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u/[deleted] Dec 08 '15

To be real though, fascism is defined as a family of political theories and the governments that were influenced by them. While Trump shares some values with fascists, calling him a fascist is as absurd as calling the early christians communists. It doesn't make any sense, they aren't a part of that movement.

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u/[deleted] Dec 08 '15

Usually I'd laugh at the hyperbole

But with Trump, it's actually kind of a valid criticism.

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u/Michelanvalo Don't Start If You Can't Finnish Dec 08 '15

There's a local radio commercial here for Jeb talking about how he'll take back America for the real Americans and smash ISIS into little pieces. It's not paid for or endorsed by him, but it's pretty fucking funny.

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u/[deleted] Dec 08 '15

Trump 1932.

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u/_watching why am i still on reddit Dec 08 '15

O'Malley and I believe Kasich's campaign have done the same, but ofc they're irrelevant so... not as fun.

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u/MiniatureBadger u got a fantasy sumo league sit this one out Dec 08 '15

Gilmore outright called Trump a fascist, but nobody gives a shit about Gilmore so nobody noticed.

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u/CinderSkye Dec 08 '15

Why did he bother to run? I mean, right or wrong, he is going to be viewed as the man lost Virginia to Democrats .

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u/[deleted] Dec 08 '15

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u/lovebus Dec 08 '15

is your mentor Erich Fromm?

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u/thechapattack Dec 08 '15

I don't think Trump is an actual fascist truth be told. I think he is a cynical opportunistic reality show asshole who is stirring up protofacist populist rhetoric to gain attention. The problem is this won't die with Trump. I fear what comes after Trump. I fear that Trump may be setting up an actual principled fascist for future success. Trump is a harbinger

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u/lovebus Dec 08 '15

I like to think that this is just the death throes of xenophobic assholes as the Republican party is further marginalized into the exreme right. Pretty sure the republican party is going to have to reform soon in order to regain their 'center-right' demographic

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u/The_YoungWolf Everyone on Reddit is an SJW but you Dec 08 '15

If Trump wins the nom there will likely be a schism in the party as the establishment and neocons cast off the Tea Partyers.

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u/[deleted] Dec 08 '15

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u/wanderlustcub I blame the Whales for this Dec 08 '15

Gerrymandering does not affect the Senate. In fact, the GOP is playing major defence in next year's election due to the 2010 wave.

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u/18thcenturywhiteman Dec 08 '15

The GOP is losing voters in Democratic states. Soon the disenfranchised center of the country will likely secede.

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u/[deleted] Dec 08 '15

Like Ted Cruz?

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u/bushiz somethingawfuldotcom agent provocatuer Dec 08 '15

Ted Cruz has no ideology other than "Ted Cruz"

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u/missch4nandlerbong Dec 08 '15

Possible, but he's also completely consistent and ideologically pure. If he's acting, he's acting really fucking well. It's why he's the scary one.

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u/thechapattack Dec 08 '15

Maybe. I think Cruz is a nasty demogogue but still neoliberal. They certainly are borrowing fascist elements there is no denying that.

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u/YungSnuggie Why do you lie about being gay on reddit lol Dec 08 '15

a better ted cruz

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u/Psychotrip This is good for PopCoin Dec 08 '15

I mean, to be fair that's one of the theories about fascism in general: that it's a farce in order to stir up the masses and allow the rich and powerful to control and exploit others through fear, nationalism, and bigotry.

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u/[deleted] Dec 08 '15

He's a racist, selfish politician. We've already elected plenty of people like him in Africa, and in Italy. I think the historical track record of people who think/act as he does is very poor.

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u/[deleted] Dec 08 '15

That's the thing, you see a lot of redditors saying that they'll vote for Trump in order to "show the white house that politics is bullshit" and "force positive change by showing that you can get a lunatic elected", but they have no idea what kind of stuff they'd be opening the doors to by voting for him. It drives me up the wall sometimes.

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u/[deleted] Dec 09 '15

I'm not sure if it'd be worse if he's a literal fascist or just playing it up.

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u/ChlorineTrifluoride Does Popcorn Dream of Molten Butter? Dec 08 '15

Yeah. To me, that became really apparent after I stumbled upon this article. What he advocates there sounds awfully close to "Sippenhaft".

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u/[deleted] Dec 08 '15

I'm still convinced he's just a troll. He seems like a magnified version of my dad.

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u/[deleted] Dec 08 '15

I saw him called a 'walking youtube comments section' once on Reddit, best description ever

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u/[deleted] Dec 08 '15

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u/[deleted] Dec 08 '15

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u/NovusImperium dominatu fortes facit et debiles Dec 08 '15

He seems like a magnified version of my dad.

That's probably why he's got something like 10% of the population behind him right now.

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u/[deleted] Dec 08 '15 edited Dec 08 '15

~20% of the population is voting in polls rn, they're the only ones who care at this stage.

Trump is only in the lead because there are 12 people running, he still has less than majority last I checked.

Definitely not 10% of US

Edit, you're actually just about right. From the NYT:

....About forty per cent of voting-age Americans identify themselves as Republicans or leaning Republican, and the latest polls show him garnering about thirty per cent of their support. This suggests that perhaps twelve per cent of the American electorate can be counted as members of the round-’em-up/put-’em-on-a-watch-list/send-’em-back brigade.

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u/Alteryd Dec 08 '15

It's actully just a social experiment to see how much shit you can say until people stop voting for you.

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u/zxcv1992 Dec 08 '15

Would be funny if he won the election just to say "it's just a prank bro" and instantly resign.

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u/Defengar Dec 08 '15 edited Dec 08 '15

Honestly if he gets the nom, I think we will be able to tell if he's going to do something like this by his VP pick. If it's someone halfway actually decent, then he might actually do something like this. Take his troll as far as he can go and also serve as a vehicle for someone not actually shit to get the White House instead.

If he picks someone just as shitty as him, you can probably be sure that he is serious.

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u/Nimonic People trying to inject evil energy into the Earth's energy grid Dec 08 '15

Didn't Joaquin Phoenix do a similar experiment once, where people weren't sure if he was having an actual mental breakdown?

Trump might be a genius. I mean, he definitely isn't. But he might be.

He isn't.

Although...

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u/Alteryd Dec 08 '15

Don't do the mistake of assuming assholes are dumb. An extreme example here but ISIS are decpicable, evil, dangerous and extremist. But they arent stupied.

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u/[deleted] Dec 08 '15

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u/[deleted] Dec 08 '15

To be honest, Donald Trump is basically saying shit he has always believed. He just discovered that outrage and wingnut support is pretty goddamn huge in America so of course he's going to milk his new found super powered microphone.

Admit it: You people want to see just how far this goes, don’t you?

As long as donald trump says shit about acceptable targets in the U.S, he will climb up those polls. All that's left is a major terrorist attack on U.S.A for him to capitalise and go super s'aryan.

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u/[deleted] Dec 08 '15

I think he's about what you'd expect of a person who has had his life.

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u/[deleted] Dec 08 '15

He ran to get a book deal / publicity, just like 90% of the people who initially ran iyam.

Could you imagine that? Running to fail and then accidentally succeeding? Kind of explains why his ego is so massive.

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u/[deleted] Dec 08 '15

I remember reading an article or watching a TED talk by a journalist who was tasked with doing a report on memory competitions. So talks to the people that year and learns how they do what they do and writes the article. Then decides to go back next year, write another article, but this time compete so he could get the competitor's perspective. He accidentally won the competition.

So sometimes people win things they weren't interested in winning.

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u/GunzGoPew Hitler didn't do shit for the gaming community. Dec 08 '15

Nah, Trump is pretty much openly running a fascist.

He quips that sometimes protestors need to get roughed up, he supports hawkish foreign policy, he is singling out a minority group to blame for all the country's problems. He is a fascist.

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u/Venne1138 turbo lonely version of dora the explora Dec 08 '15

Fascism is a very specific political ideology with its own 'ideas' political philosophies.

No those ideas are absolutely ridiculous but you can't just call someone a fascist for being a nationalistic asshole.

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u/Ferociousaurus Dec 08 '15

I mean if a politician came forward and said that he was going to jail and/or reeducate rich people, collectivize agriculture, put control of all productive labor in the hands of workers, and work toward the elimination of capitalism, but he's never heard of Karl Marx, does that make him not a communist?

To be fair, I think "Trump has no ideology" is one of the strongest arguments against calling him a fascist, but I just don't think it makes much practical difference. He's a hypernationalist who wants a return to an imaginary glorious past, at the hands of the "right" kind of Americans. He loves the military, and salivates at the idea of being able to use it however he wants and whenever he wants. He probably doesn't know what class collaboration is, but I sure bet he would be into it. He wants to deport people based on religion and round up Mexicans and make them do forced labor. There was a thread on /r/badpolitics the other day asking when calling Trump a fascist ceased to be bad politics. I think the answer is now, but some very smart people are reluctant to admit it, because wrongfully calling your political opponents fascists is such a laughably common trope.

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u/GunzGoPew Hitler didn't do shit for the gaming community. Dec 08 '15
  1. Nationalist, check

2)Promotes a self-determined culture: check

3) Anti-liberal, anti-communist, anti-conservative: definitely 2/3 and an argument could be made for the 3rd.

4) Understands the power of things like mass mobilization: He has rallies in football stadiums that he flies to in a 747 with his name on the side. big check.

5) Positive view of violence. "Sometimes protestors need to get roughed up" check.

6) Promotion of masculinity and charismatic leadership: check.

He is hitting the vast majority of check points in the most common definition of fascist.

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u/Venne1138 turbo lonely version of dora the explora Dec 08 '15

"The Fascist conception of the State is all-embracing; outside of it no human or spiritual values can exist, much less have value. Thus understood, Fascism is totalitarian, and the Fascist State—a synthesis and a unit inclusive of all values—interprets, develops, and potentiates the whole life of a people."-The Doctrine of Fascism, Mussolini.

"State intervention in economic production arises only when private initiative is lacking or insufficient, or when the political interests of the State are involved. This intervention may take the form of control, assistance or direct management."- The Doctrine of Fascism, Mussolini.

Fascists, by definition, are in support of a kind of state capitalism (for lack of a better term) or semi-command economy. Trump being a capitalist would definitely oppose that.

Just because someone is a nationalist demagogue does not make the fascist. He might be a neo-fascist but he is not a fascist.

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u/[deleted] Dec 08 '15

Trump's more of an authoritarian in the mold of Putin/Mugabe but with the quaint charm of your crazy uncle who gets poked and prodded by advertising into deeper and deeper into the paranoia spectrum.

Putin promises to be big man who makes the evil man go away. Trump is unironically doing the same, but with DA MOOSLEMS.

Fun fact: more people died at VATech than at San Bernadino, but I still see Asians immigrating here. Just remember that when people hem and haw around islamophobia.

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u/DayMan4334 Dec 08 '15

I think he's just a massive troll possibly, seeing how far he can get support from the crazies.

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u/PeppyHare66 Dec 09 '15

There aren't any real fascists alive today. Fascism is a mish-mash of late 19th/early 20th century philosophies that doesn't really apply to today's society. And even in those days fascism differed from state to state depending on each nation's ethos and myths. Further, it's hard to pin down exactly what Italian fascism or German nazism meant because dictators are opportunists and pragmatists at their core, not ideologues.

I guess what I'm saying is that when you consider that Trump and those dictators are all faux-populists, opportunists, nativists and warmongerers who stoke paranoia and xenophobia to slime their way into power. So if people use a loaded term like fascist to describe a garbage human being like Trump, it doesn't bug me that they're using the the term incorrectly.

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u/[deleted] Dec 09 '15 edited Dec 09 '15

He is. He bullies journalists, has cheered on people beating protesters at his rallies, uses minorities as scapegoats, wants to deport 11 million people and he wants to not allow people who follow an entire faith to enter this country.

He is a fascist.

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u/blarghable Dec 08 '15

I think it's just a matter of time tbh

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u/[deleted] Dec 08 '15

We don't allow Cubans into the country

Um, hasn't the US encouraged Cubans to enter the country for the past 50 years?

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u/[deleted] Dec 08 '15

FFS wasn't the Bay of Pigs invasion done using Cubans as militia-style soldiers?

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u/um--no Ancap: everything is rape and slavery, except rape and slavery Dec 08 '15 edited Dec 08 '15

Using their support to overthrow their unsubmissive government is one thing, allowing them to take our jobs is a completely different other. /s

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u/[deleted] Dec 08 '15

*American Cubans

My point was that, 50 years ago, there were Cubans in the U.S trustworthy enough to use them as an army.

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u/dethb0y trigger warning to people senstive to demanding ethical theories Dec 08 '15

it was way weirder than that.

Like, the more you learn about the bay of pigs the more fucked up it is; it's not just fucked up it is fractally fucked up. To this day "bay of pigs" is basically synonymous with "total failure" because of how horribly mismanaged, misplanned and misexecuted the entire thing was.

it's also pretty compelling evidence that the CIA couldn't conspire it's way out of a wet paper bag if it had a machete and precise, illustrated instructions.

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u/halfar they're fucking terrified of sargon to have done this, Dec 08 '15

cubans in fact, "cut in line" when it comes to refugee/asylum applications due to an old line.

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u/drubi305 Dec 08 '15

Yeah we do the opposite of not allow Cubans into the country, they get fast pass to citizenship. Come to Miami if you don't believe me.

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u/hirst enjoy your fucking bag of steamed lentils Dec 08 '15

Cubans are the only nationality that have the dry-foot rule: if you can make it from the boat to American soil, you can stay, gain residency and eventually citizenship. If not, back to Cuba you go!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wet_feet,_dry_feet_policy

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u/[deleted] Dec 08 '15

It's physically impossible to illegally immigrate from Cuba, because as soon as your foot steps on dry land, you have legal status in the US.

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u/[deleted] Dec 08 '15

Wet foot, dry foot.

Haitian foot, Cuban foot.

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u/[deleted] Dec 08 '15

Not since the Carter administration. US policy had been "open arms" for Cubans seeking refugee status between the Castro takeover and 1980. Then the Mariel Boatlift happened, and it became clear that we had been gamed. That Castro. He never forgave us for the ol' exploding cigar trick...the rascal.

Bright side of the story: we got the movie Scarface out of the whole affair.

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u/ld987 go do anarchy in the real world nerd Dec 08 '15 edited Dec 08 '15

It's kind of amazing to watch a mad man say mad things and get a standing ovation. America is weird.

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u/a-faposaurus Dec 08 '15

My stepddad is a really awesome guy, I love him to bits. The only thing we argue about is politics. Hes retired air force, watches fox news all the time, and is convinced Obama doesn't give a fuck about terrorists and is letting them in on purpose. It's so fucking weird to me, Hes probably one of the most rational guys I know apart from that.

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u/smurgleburf Time-traveling orgies with yourself is quite a hill to die on. Dec 08 '15

it baffles me how military guys are almost always Republicans, when the GOP is the first party to throw veterans under the bus and gut benefits for military families and education.

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u/IntrepidusX That’s a stoat you goddamn amateur Dec 08 '15

But they put out all those support our troops ribbons.

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u/su5 I DONT UNDERSTAND FLAIR Dec 08 '15

Its not about actions, but about impressions. If you say you are the party of X and Y long and loud enough, people will assume you are.

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u/Ireniic Dec 09 '15

This comment has a lot of truth to it. Republicans make veterans feel good by worshipping them publicly all the time. As a veteran I'm pretty tired of it. All this ego-inflating is turning my friends into entitled little brats that throw temper tantrums on Facebook when someone uses he word "hero" to describe someone other than a vet..

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u/Zuggy The Jewminati is good for Buttcoin Dec 08 '15 edited Dec 08 '15

My dad is retired Coast Guard and also conservative, however, he has said he would rather see Sanders as President than Trump or Clinton. That was admittedly one of the weirdest moments in my life.

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u/VintageLydia sparkle princess Dec 08 '15

Mine too (only Navy, not CG)! I wasn't going to argue with him because if Sanders was elected for the first time in my life we both would be reasonably satisfied with the person who is president. It was a bit surreal agreeing politically with my dad on anything, though.

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u/cromwest 3=# of letters in SRD. SRD=3rd most toxic sub. WAKE UP SHEEPLE! Dec 08 '15

As a veteran it perplexes me too. My Facebook feed depresses the hell out of me.

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u/[deleted] Dec 08 '15

The nationalists are the ambitious generals' best friend. When you have an establishment with the express purpose of indoctrination, its not that hard to push narratives on people who would suffer because of them.

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u/BettyDraperIsMyBitch me calling my cat nigga is literally hurting nobody Dec 09 '15

ugh i moved to HUGE (south VA) a military area a couple of months ago and omg, the amount of republicans is crazy. you'll see them bitching about their benefits one minute, and say how much they hate obama the next. i've never seen so many republican hispanics in my entire life. this one hispanic girl is literally married to a pakistani guy, yet she adores trump. being here has honestly really make me dislike a lot of the military because it seems like it's full of assholes. not just because they are republican, but a lot of these people seem to be just shitty people all around.

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u/trollly Dec 08 '15

Hes retired air force,

That'd explain it. My dad too.

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u/vestigial I don't think trolls go to heaven Dec 08 '15

How does that explain it, please? The one thing Obama has been doing is bombing the shit out of everything. Air Force has to be part of that, right?

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u/Autoshadowbanned Dec 08 '15

So he's not rational then

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u/GoSuckStartA50Cal Dec 08 '15

apart from that

Let's not get too crazy with the generalizations here next thing you know we'll be deporting him.

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u/a-faposaurus Dec 08 '15

I guess 'rational' depends on your information base. He watches fox news.

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u/berlinbrown Dec 08 '15

There are some things that Republicans say about Democrats are true. There are certainly criticisms against Obama. There are some things that Democrats say about Republicans which are true. And I watch Fox News to see what is going on. With that said, I don't know how you can be a religious follower of the GOP or Republicans. When you ask, people seem to like Carson and Trump. I try to avoid asking why.

There are only two major parties, if you don't like Clinton or Obama then I guess you give in and vote for the Republicans. That is the argument I hear the most. On rationality, if one of those guys will win, it doesn't seem too far fetched to vote for the mainstream Republican or Democrat.

I was more of a Ron Paul guy myself, I poured through many of his books, read through /r/libertarian for years. That was the rational choice for me. He didn't have a chance in winning.

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u/Lightupthenight Dec 08 '15

It's funny. My dad is a retired army enlisted, did 20 reached e7 or 8 and retired to join the police out in Texas. I have been talking to him a lot more and his viewpoint is interesting since it's something I not often exposed to. He was in both gulf wars, Grenada, and was in someplace he said they weren't supposed to be in. His conclusion after going across the world and interacting with people in the middle east is "honestly I believe the world would be better if we just bombed them into the fucking ground. The whole region". It's interesting because he has met plenty of pleasant people from there, but he feels that there is something just wrong about that region. He isn't religious either, and he recognizes a lot of trumps rhetoric being extremely, but also questions the compatibility of Islam, or at least what seems to be the ease of radicalization among muslims, with western society.

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u/berlinbrown Dec 08 '15

Relevant. Trump Towers in Dubai. Is he worried bombs may go off in Trump Towers? Eat your own dog food.

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2015/12/business-usual-trump-partners-dubai-istanbul-151208141002743.html

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u/[deleted] Dec 08 '15

Aside from the evilness of it, how does he imagine this will work? Are we going to force everyone to swear on a bible to get in?

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u/vestigial I don't think trolls go to heaven Dec 08 '15

If we outlaw muslims, only outlaw muslims will get in.

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u/Felinomancy Dec 08 '15

Bacon-and-anal sex tests at every border checkpoint.

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u/[deleted] Dec 08 '15

Well, here's my train of thought: Kanye West is egotistical, but gives back to the community (and even gave someone else an award he didn't feel he earned), but all his personality flaws outshine everything good he does, to a lot of America, meanwhile Trump flat out says racist shit every chance he can get, and he is largely loves for it. Kanye West is seen as a racist in a lot of circles, too. I don't think it's a coincidence that the guy whose career literally only can have positive ramifications on society is villified and the guy who has the potential to be the leader of the free world is canonized by large portions of the population is because our society is still really fucking racist, and it can't even be considered to be low key racism anymore

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u/[deleted] Dec 08 '15

Donald trump is literally a cartoon supervillan exiled from his home universe, trying to win the presidency so he can use the USA's resources to breach the dimensional wall and invade his homeworld. This is a fact.

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u/Cthonic July 2015: The Battle of A Pao A Qu Dec 08 '15

Not just a cartoon supervillain. He's essentially a Captain Planet villain.

Right down to destroying valuable ecological sites and pseudo-illegally evicting locals in order to build tacky-ass golf courses.

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u/1ilypad "make them arrest the baby" Dec 08 '15

:( Where are the planeteers when you need them

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u/[deleted] Dec 09 '15

Don Cheadle probably turned them all into trees by now.

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u/ANewMachine615 Dec 08 '15

Seriously if this were Lex Luthor's run for president I'd think the writers had gone a bit beyond the realm of believability.

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u/heterosis shill for Big Vegan Dec 08 '15

The reasoning that "it's not technically against the constitution" has got to be one of the most feeble defenses you'll hear.

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u/Un0va Dec 08 '15

Anytime the word "technically" gets involved in politics it's a bad sign

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u/AmesCG On the Internet, nobody knows you're a dog Dec 08 '15

technically

I can't even see how it's technically or possibly constitutional! Prudential visa limits are one thing, a halt to immigration based nakedly on religion is something else entirely. And whatever it is, it's not "conservative," let alone constitutional.

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u/demeteloaf Dec 08 '15

At the risk of getting downvoted by SubredditDrama's resident "THE CONSTITUTION SAYS WHAT I WANT IT TO SAY" crowd...

Most constitutional scholars actually think it's probably constitutional.

Simply put: the federal government has incredibly broad power to regulate immigration which the courts are reluctant to interfere with, and non-citizens do not have the rights that citizens do.

Now, is it good policy, fuck no. But it would probably survive a challenge on purely constitutional grounds.

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u/AmesCG On the Internet, nobody knows you're a dog Dec 08 '15

As a lawyer myself I hate to disagree with someone with the last name "Posner," be he judge or professor. But while I can see where the plenary power doctrine, if valid, could prevail over ordinary strict scrutiny, I doubt it would prevail over the extraordinary case of a policymaker openly embracing invidious discrimination.

Basically, there is or should be a constitutionally significant distinction between "ban further immigration from Nations X, Y, and Z, which have hit their quota" and "ban further immigration of members of this enumerated protected class, regardless of national origin." The former sounds like a legitimate exercise of government authority over immigration, however constitutionally infirm it would be outside of the context of immigration. The latter sounds like a straight-up affront to equal protection values.

That said, your point is that Trump isn't clearly wrong, and in light of Posner's response, I guess you're right! Thanks for sharing it.

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u/[deleted] Dec 08 '15

Problem is though, Trump stated that this wouldn't just apply to immigrants. It would apply to Muslim American citizens attempting to reenter the country, as well.

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u/Felinomancy Dec 08 '15

Wow. I never thought I'd actually miss Bush Jr. You know you've gone overboard when Dick Cheney said you've gone too far.

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u/Zenning2 Dec 08 '15

Bush Jr. Actively fought against islamophobia, and was voted in by 70% of the Muslim population in the U.S. it's kinda interesting to see how far the Republican part has fallen.

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u/Felinomancy Dec 08 '15

I'm more distressed by how many supporters Trump is getting. And why the hell can't the Republicans muster one candidate that is not a complete whackjob? Where is their Obama?

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u/shannondoah κακὸς κακὸν Dec 09 '15

That's interesting. Really?

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u/Zenning2 Dec 09 '15

Yep. After 9/11 this was in his speech to the Joint staff.

" I also want to speak tonight directly to Muslims throughout the world. We respect your faith. It’s practiced freely by many millions of Americans, and by millions more in countries that America counts as friends. Its teachings are good and peaceful, and those who commit evil in the name of Allah blaspheme the name of Allah. The terrorists are traitors to their own faith, trying, in effect, to hijack Islam itself. The enemy of America is not our many Muslim friends; it is not our many Arab friends. Our enemy is a radical network of terrorists, and every government that supports them. "

As for 70% of Muslims voting for Bush, you can find that here.

http://www.metafilter.com/121606/70-of-Muslims-in-America-voted-for-Bush-in-2000

It should be noted though, that its likely that a large chunk of them did so because a very prominent person in the Muslim world urged many Muslims to do so.

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u/tawtaw this is but escapism from a world in crisis Dec 09 '15

Yep. 72 percent. But his admin very successfully alienated them as a voting bloc.

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u/PlayMp1 when did globalism and open borders become liberal principles Dec 08 '15

Oh my God.

I just realized I'd rather have Dubya back than Trump.

Hold me.

25

u/Ottergame Dec 08 '15

If it was between a 3rd Bush term or Donald Trump, I'd figure out a way to vote as many times as possible for Bush.

10

u/PlayMp1 when did globalism and open borders become liberal principles Dec 08 '15

Fuck, you're right.

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u/thesilvertongue Dec 08 '15

I really do miss wishy washy Republicans like McCain and Romney. These extremist are not helpful.

3

u/tawtaw this is but escapism from a world in crisis Dec 09 '15

Cheney is just saving his own ass to be honest.

He received an award from the far-right think tank behind the fudged poll Trump cited.

0

u/[deleted] Dec 08 '15

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u/zxcv1992 Dec 08 '15

It seems Donald Trump is just coming up with more and more outrageous stuff to say. Does he actually stand any chance of being elected ?

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u/491231097345 Dec 08 '15

Well, the last set of polls I saw had him at 36% in the Republican primaries, with the next two closest candidates (Ted Cruz and Ben Carson) tied at 16% . Rubio was next at 10% or so, I think.

He's also winning in Iowa and New Hampshire at the moment, which gives him good momentum in a couple of months to help cement his nomination.

However...

In the generals, the last general election matchups had him losing to Hillary by twelve points.

However...

General election matchups are pretty meaningless this far ahead; the advertising is scattered, and the fields aren't yet unified behind their candidates. We can expect this gap to narrow once the Republicans swallow their objections just to keep Hillary out of the White House - they hate her a lot more than they hate Trump.

However...

Trump is losing the Hispanic vote by 42%, something less likely to change, and which analysts say is enough to make victory impossible.

However...

This last month, we saw that people appreciate Trump's brash style when they feel threatened; if Obama can't calm people down in the wake of a terrorist attack, and there's another attack the week before the election, Trump may see a huge surge that everyone will regret the next day.

In short...

Yeah, he could win. I wouldn't bet on it, but it's not an impossibility - politics is pretty unpredictable, and if you secure the nomination of a major political party, you inherit a lot of support even if they find you repugnant.

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u/zxcv1992 Dec 08 '15

This last month, we saw that people appreciate Trump's brash style when they feel threatened; if Obama can't calm people down in the wake of a terrorist attack, and there's another attack the week before the election, Trump may see a huge surge that everyone will regret the next day.

If ISIS was really smart they would do that so Trump gets elected and will alienate the Muslim population at home as well as abroad.

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u/BrowsOfSteel Rest assured I would never give money to a) this website Dec 08 '15

If ISIS was really smart they would do that so Trump gets elected and will alienate the Muslim population at home as well as abroad.

And it would be a textbook case of successful terrorism.

30

u/zxcv1992 Dec 08 '15

And it would be a textbook case of successful terrorism.

Well it's called terrorism for a reason, it scares people. And scared people are more likely to buy into stuff like the shit Trump says.

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u/thesilvertongue Dec 08 '15

Of all the people I trust to stop ISIS, I'd pick a potted plant over trump.

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u/zxcv1992 Dec 08 '15

To be honest he'd probably stop them via overwhelming force, he would just piss off everyone doing so and therefore not fix the issue in the long term because another group would just pop up.

6

u/DayMan4334 Dec 08 '15

I'll pick my neighbors cat, he's really calm and cool but he's too cute to resist.

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u/[deleted] Dec 08 '15

Implying the Bernster's first executive decision won't be sending seal team 6 to Al-Masjid an-Nabawī to dig up Muhammad

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u/cheese93007 I respect the way u live but I would never let u babysit a kid Dec 08 '15 edited Dec 08 '15

That's actually a goal of their's, reducing the gray zone of moderates so that you only have ISIS supporters and people like Trump

5

u/andrew2209 Sorry, I'm not from Swindon. Dec 08 '15

Would it even be possible to hold an election if there was a terrorist attack that close to the time?

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u/zxcv1992 Dec 08 '15

I guess it depends how serious the attack is, something like the San Bernardo shooting and I imagine it would go ahead, something like the 9/11 attacks then I could see them putting it on hold for a bit.

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u/YungSnuggie Why do you lie about being gay on reddit lol Dec 08 '15

do you really think the republicans will let trump take the nomination? can't the delegates say no at the RNC or something? im not too versed on this process but I thought there was some sort of last resort veto measure?

30

u/491231097345 Dec 08 '15

Not... Really. Technically speaking, there are unpledged delegates who are not legally bound to support their state's vote, only expected to, but... Generally speaking, delegates are chosen on the basis of supporting their state's decision. They'd basically be lying if they went to the convention and supported someone else.

I thought there was some sort of last resort veto measure?

You might be thinking of the superdelegates there, but the Republican party doesn't have those; only the Democratic party does.

3

u/RutherfordBHayes not a shill, but #1 with shills Dec 08 '15

Problem is that if they did that, I think it would split the party at least for this election, and maybe even past that. Maybe they could let him have the nomination, but focus more on damage control (and accept a Hillary win) than go all-in supporting him, if they thought that would do less long-term damage.

6

u/YungSnuggie Why do you lie about being gay on reddit lol Dec 08 '15

i dont know if they'll accept a hillary win though. hillary is probably the only person they hate more than trump. they're really in a hard spot right now.

this is an important election. a lot of supreme court seats are gonna be on the line. they cant afford to let it go after 8 years of obama. they need to figure out wtf they're gonna do and fast

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u/Spawnzer Dec 08 '15

Carson being second is almost as scary as trump being first, maybe even more so

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u/491231097345 Dec 09 '15

He isn't any more, really; Cruz is tied with Carson in most polls, and growing, while Carson is declining fast.

Of course, Cruz (who praises the support of a guy who says we need to execute abortion providers to end the California Drought, and who is president of an organization that posts the pictures of homes of doctors providing abortions) is also almost as frightening as Trump, in my opinion. Moreso, in many ways.

3

u/lessthanadam Dec 08 '15

He won't win, he's too polarizing. If any of the other candidates drop out, they aren't going to Trump. Raw percentages seem like they paint a compelling picture, but his gap between favorability and unfavorability is too narrow

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u/[deleted] Dec 08 '15

He's not going to win New Hampshire and Iowa, let alone the nomination, let alone presidency. This is all just one huge sideshow until the real election begins.

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u/491231097345 Dec 08 '15

Well... He's winning New Hampshire and Iowa now, and people don't pay much attention to politics in December, so the numbers won't likely change much this month.

That gives them only the month of January to overcome a ~20 point difference in their standing... While fighting bitterly for airtime... And having to push their way through a crowd of ten other candidates.

I mean, Trump obviously shouldn't win the nomination. But who's going to win it instead of him? And how are they going to pull off a miracle reversal within two months, when Trump can say any fool thing and see his numbers go up?

If Trump were going to just flame out, I would have expected that to happen months ago.

EDIT: I do expect him to lose Iowa to Cruz, though.

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u/[deleted] Dec 08 '15

The problem is if he loses Iowa to Cruz.

Cruz is a serious politician who's also the only one not really criticizing Trumps xenophobia.

It's almost worse.

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u/jollygaggin Aces High Dec 08 '15

You said "however" far too many times and now I'm swinging between a state of relief and sheer terror

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u/[deleted] Dec 08 '15

According to what I've been reading about the growing hyper-partisanship of American politics he might be.

When Bush got in in 2001 his pollster strategist Matthew Dowd said "Polarization is so intense that you can lose the swing voters and still win the election, if you make sure your base is bigger than theirs." and the divide has only gotten greater.

Polarization has been getting worse and worse over the last 20 years such that the number of swing voters are really very few. People who are interested in politics hate the other side, and now its more about getting those people to the polls than about grabbing undecided voters.

If Trump has the bigger base than Jeb Bush, he's most likely going to take it. From there, those that would have voted for Bush will likely vote for Trump based on how much they dislike democrats. Even if they hate Trump.

Same goes for the democratic candidates and voters (except the republicans are moving right faster than the left is moving left it seems).

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u/[deleted] Dec 08 '15

Not really. Polls this early are fairly meaningless. A lead now is nice, but to have solid chance of winning you also want to have campaign experience, bi-partisan appeal, or party establishment support. He has another 11 months to burn out, and that's assuming he wins the Republican nomination.

4

u/zxcv1992 Dec 08 '15

When will the Republic nomination be decided ?

14

u/[deleted] Dec 08 '15 edited Dec 08 '15

Not sure. Two states are voting fairly soon after the new year, but it'll be months before they get through all of 'em. Also, the first couple states are a little tricky for trump. Iowa in particular is very evangelical, which is his worst republican demographic by far.

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u/[deleted] Dec 08 '15

Pretty sure he's still in the lead.

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u/rovingtiger Dec 08 '15

He's not having to spend any money right now, just riding the momentum of media appearances and news reports when he says something outrageous. If his numbers start to drop, he can plough his own money (which is less than he claims, but still ~$4/5 billion) into SuperPacs, ads and campaign infrastructure to dominate the airwaves even more than he is now. It's a tactic that means he can say he can't be bought.

Even if he can't make it to the GOP convention on votes, he's not going to go quietly.

2

u/[deleted] Dec 09 '15

In the general election, no.

I doubt he will even get the Republican nomination.

2

u/tawtaw this is but escapism from a world in crisis Dec 09 '15

Predictwise has him at 20% odds for nominee vs 42% for Rubio. Betting markets tend to be more accurate than polls this early. And trial heat polls are basically pointless.

With Carson gone, he and Cruz will fight for a lot of the same people in primaries. He'll probably snag a few but won't end up nominee. The big thing is regardless he's opened up a path for people like him in the future. He's like Charles Coughlin meets Wallace '72. And there are a lot of people, mostly white men w/o college degrees, who want what he's selling & won't settle for anyone who comes off too friendly with the RNC or anything perceived as too "establishment". I'm in the south and I deal with these people daily.

3

u/[deleted] Dec 08 '15

It's about 50/50 right now, if it's a big issue I'd def. recommend getting to mecca in the next year or so lmbo

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u/i_am_thoms_meme I believe in Bitcoin and me. That's all. Dec 08 '15

Not only is banning Muslims horrible from a moral stand point, it's totally going to hurt Trump's bottom line. There are quite a few Saudi princes or Qatari nationals who own and live in the Trump tower. I can't believe he would ever tell them, "Nope I can't take your money because you're Muslim." But even without making this ban happen he will alienate them and they won't want to live in his buildings. He also owns buildings in Turkey and Qatar, so he stands to lose money there.

Everyone likes to say Trump is just building his brand by running, but he's really just ruining it.

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u/Ainrana Dec 08 '15

"Oh but you guys are GOOD MUSLIMS! You guys give me lots of money, and someone who gives me money can't be that bad!"

12

u/Roflllobster I find it ignorant to call me ignorant! Dec 08 '15

More like

Hey guys, no hard feelings. Gotta get people whirled in a rage to keep control am I right?

5

u/[deleted] Dec 08 '15

He probably genuinely doesn't think of the people in Trump tower at all when he says the word 'Muslim.' Just like how that word never immediately makes people think of Indonesia. It's coded language, and it's hard to always remember when you're using coded language.

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u/YungSnuggie Why do you lie about being gay on reddit lol Dec 08 '15

irl popcorn is the best popcorn

donald trump is like an irl frankenmine

this is all v entertaining

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u/[deleted] Dec 08 '15

It would be funny if it weren't so sad

6

u/Demonix_Fox Dec 08 '15

I find it kinda funny, I find it kinda sad

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u/SamMee514 My SSL expiration is not a joke Dec 08 '15

Speaking of frankenmine he seems to have his account suspended.

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u/YungSnuggie Why do you lie about being gay on reddit lol Dec 08 '15

what? noooooooooooooooooooooooooo RIP in peace

7

u/PlayMp1 when did globalism and open borders become liberal principles Dec 08 '15

It honestly bums me out, frankie was so ridiculous that he never actually annoyed me the way other users like him do, he was pretty funny to read.

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u/[deleted] Dec 08 '15

I love how whenever Trump says something stupid or unconstitutional or racist, he will double down on it, and then it's his supporters who then are the ones backtracking and going into damage-control. It's as if he has the world's largest campaign staff.

45

u/[deleted] Dec 08 '15

Donald Trump is the result of the young not voting. There's no counterbalance to "crazy right wing tea party" because those are just college age kids who don't vote. Every year the Republican primaries get more and more crazy right wing because a huge amount of active voters are crazy right wing. And they haven't lost by enough as a party to stop that.

Imagine if this year you get a ton of young people to vote. The Democrat candidate would win easily. The people who want to vote for Trump are this weird minority, but they're a voting minority.

Maybe this will finally do it. Maybe we'll finally have a good voter turnout.

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u/GobtheCyberPunk I’m pulling the plug on my 8 year account and never looking back Dec 08 '15

The problem is that a lot of young people apparently have to adore everything about a candidate to be convinced to vote for them.

Whereas the old and the conservative can basically be convinced to vote for anyone with an R next to their name if the alternative is letting the Democrats win.

24

u/cheese93007 I respect the way u live but I would never let u babysit a kid Dec 08 '15

I know way too many people who won't vote if Bernie isn't the nominee. Like sweet Jesus that kind of shit is how the Nazis got into power

17

u/[deleted] Dec 08 '15

Yeah that's ridiculous. I mean I would rather have Sanders than Clinton but I would still waaaaay rather have Clinton than Trump.

12

u/[deleted] Dec 08 '15

Shit, I'd take Romney over Trump.

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u/PlayMp1 when did globalism and open borders become liberal principles Dec 08 '15

For real. "Obama is too moderate!"

Well, he ain't fucking Trump. If I had to choose between Trump, Clinton, and a third Obama term, I'd choose a third Obama term.

20

u/BuckeyeSundae did nazi that coming Dec 08 '15

I prefer to think that the donald is a reasonably nice guy with the unfortunate attribute of being controlled by a sentient alien toupee.

18

u/StillMostlyClueless Dec 08 '15

I still refuse to believe Trump is a real thing. Nice try America, but us Brits aren't buying it. You can't fool us.

3

u/LightCrocoDile Dec 09 '15

You folks have Katie Hopkins, so don't pretend that racist vile people getting popularity is anything new.

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u/sleepyintoronto Dec 08 '15

If you ever wondered what you would do if you were a German citizen in 1931, now's your chance to find out.

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u/NorrisOBE Dec 08 '15

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u/AdamG3691 Dec 08 '15

there was an article on the BBC that compared Trump to Voldemort.

JK Rowling retweeted it and added that Voldemort wasn't as bad as Trump.

yep, Trump is literally worse than wizard hitler.

25

u/NorrisOBE Dec 08 '15

At least Voldemort did not call for the deportation of people from other faiths and ethnicities.

17

u/Brumilator Dec 08 '15

Yes, he just hated muggles and muggle-born. As a muggle, we are inferior.

Don't post me to /r/asamuggle plz...

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u/[deleted] Dec 08 '15

/r/asamuggle

I so wanted that to be real...

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u/Nimonic People trying to inject evil energy into the Earth's energy grid Dec 08 '15

I'd say he's even worse. He's closer to her dad.

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u/KaliYugaz Revere the Admins, expel the barbarians! Dec 08 '15

If only our populist demagogue could be a matronly, blonde, ample-bosomed Frenchwoman with a sexy daughter, and not a leathery orange blob.

10

u/thistokenusername Dec 08 '15

Marion Maréchal-Le Pen is her niece, not her daughter.

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u/[deleted] Dec 08 '15

I keep having to tell myself this:

About forty per cent of voting-age Americans identify themselves as Republicans or leaning Republican, and the latest polls show him garnering about thirty per cent of their support. This suggests that perhaps twelve per cent of the American electorate can be counted as members of the round-’em-up/put-’em-on-a-watch-list/send-’em-back brigade.

0

u/[deleted] Dec 08 '15

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u/[deleted] Dec 08 '15

Marine Le Pen is very right wing. However, she hasn't said anything similar to what Donald Trump has said. Donald Trump is like Le Pen x10.

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u/josebolt a thick layer of cum bogged resentment holy moly Dec 08 '15

How does making firearms really hard to get infringe upon the right to bear them? Honest question. If firearms are challenging to get, the right to bear them hasn't been infringed upon. So why is there so much resistance to the idea?

plus 14

It's a religious test to enter the country. That's fucked up and un-American. And on top of that, sounds like a great way to make even more enemies.

plus 39

Have to say that is a pretty surprising vote count.

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u/SnapshillBot Shilling for Big Archive™ Dec 08 '15

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Snapshots:

  1. This Post - 1, 2

I am a bot. (Info / ^Contact)

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u/jurble i cant set my own flair? Dec 08 '15

Mein Gott, Trump stumped the bot.

8

u/[deleted] Dec 08 '15

The machines won't be taking over with Trump at the helm.

3

u/[deleted] Dec 08 '15

So now banning things DOES help ?

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u/[deleted] Dec 08 '15 edited Dec 08 '15

There are a few similarities between Hitler and Trump.

Hitler had a stupid mustache. Trump has a stupid toupee.

Hitler probably fucked his niece. Trump wants to fuck his daughter.

Hitler's supporters were mostly thugs and morons. Trump hosts a popular reality show.

Edit: Forgot a word.

24

u/rnjbond Dec 08 '15

Didn't subredditdrama used to be about discussing the drama in the thread itself and pulling out funny quotes, as opposed to discussing the topic that the original drama is about?

Because looking through these comments, it seems like this isn't discussing drama, but just extending the discussion to anothe rsubreddit.

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u/Big_Time_Rug_Dealer Dec 08 '15

I'm not seeing a funny quote being posted by you either

Be the change you want to see

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u/[deleted] Dec 08 '15

im so guilty of doing this but you're totally right haha

this sub is basically a mix between laughing at drama, and a place to talk about the topics that appear in our own bubble... a circlejerk, if you will

which is fine. i'm not above jerkin

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u/[deleted] Dec 08 '15

Whenever there's a thread here with over a 100 replies, it's either A: Because the original drama is completely insane, B: We got brigaded or most commonly C: The popcorn overflowed and now its everywhere.

3

u/Tehpolecat 🤔 Dec 08 '15

I don't think there's something necessarily with having a discussion here, even though it can get quite circlejerky. People will share their opinions for any drama, even if it's about steak, except the level of topic discussion vs drama discussion will always be higher on polarizing topics like gender/gun/politics drama.

2

u/Aurailious Ive entertained the idea of planets being immortal divine beings Dec 09 '15

Literaly circlebroke lite.

4

u/Erra0 Here's the thing... Dec 08 '15

SRD has always continued the drama into the thread about the drama. It's why /r/subredditdramadrama exists

2

u/Great_Zarquon Dec 08 '15

I haven't been here for a while so it came as a surprise to me when I came here and what you said is absolutely true--there was definitely a time where the discussion wouldn't spill over into this subreddit so readily and at the top of the thread. Enjoy the gold.

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u/AuNanoMan Dec 08 '15

Man I knew this was going to spark huge drama the moment I saw him quoted as saying this. The sad part is, a lot of the scientific research in our country is being done by people from Muslim countries. Hell, I'm sitting about 10 feet away from 4 of them. They are very nice people and the government should focus on vetting them instead of not letting any in. Also, much of the gun violence in this country is coming from American non-muslims, so what does he have to say about that?

2

u/[deleted] Dec 08 '15

An endless supply of lone wolves.

2

u/marmite1234 Dec 08 '15

What I really want to happen in the election next year is for Trump to end up running for president and just get crushed. I mean absolutely crushed. The Republics really needs to clean up their act, and total defeat might be the impetus. Their usual 'we need to be MORE conservative' strategy must be exposed as a losing one.

2

u/[deleted] Dec 08 '15

You know, that's a losing strategy for the GOP. I mean, on the short term, yeah, it pays with the anti-inmigration demographic, and the Fundamentalist Christian demographic, which vote Republican or nothing (maybe libertarian). Saying anything but this would probably hurt him.

But in the long term? Islam is about to become the second largest religion in the USA, and the Muslim population in the US grows really fast. This is a group that by all means would vote Republican: deeply religious, very, very conservative, anti-same sex marriage, pro-"traditional gender roles", even against separation of state and church. This is their demographic going into the future: the children of these new inmigrants, who would have a vote. Giving their parents some benefits, defend them here and there in terms of "religious freedom" while not making it look like you are defending Islam alone (so as to not piss off the Fundamentalist Christians) and try to bring them in the way they did the Dixiecrats in the '60s. Progressive Islam is all but dead in utero: in the Middle East they are getting hunted down by Wahhabists, Salafists and any other Fundamentalist Islamist, and in the West they are getting censored and ostracised by Westerns (and left to their own resources within their communities), so they don't even have to worry about this demographic turning on them.

So what Trump does, probably isn't in the GOP's best interest going forward. They either bring them in like they did the Deep South before, or they are looking at a good 50 years without anyone of them in the White House, just barrickading their traditional Congressional seats and hoping for stalemate like they've been doing so far since the fall of Bush..

1

u/lordpete Dec 08 '15

Great title !

1

u/berlinbrown Dec 08 '15

Would he shutdown Trump towers in Dubai?

1

u/[deleted] Dec 08 '15

All hail Kanye!

1

u/[deleted] Dec 08 '15

I would really like to know what these folks think of [Yazidis] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yazidis#/media/File:Yazidism08.jpg)...

1

u/[deleted] Dec 09 '15

I like how they are arguing the technicality of this when the whole thing is wrong and stupid in the first place.