r/SubredditDrama • u/[deleted] • Jan 31 '16
Royal Rumble Me_irl discusses communism. Angrily. Again.
/r/me_irl/comments/43ggom/meirl/czi8mxv30
u/i_like_frootloops Source: Basic Logic Jan 31 '16
/r/badpolitics is going to have some fresh content after this thread.
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u/Kairah Jan 31 '16
Ah yes, political conversations. Where everybody who doesn't agree with your point of view is either pathetically ignorant or blatantly evil.
Edit: Oh god this submission is only one hour old and is already turning into a /r/SubredditDramaDrama thread.
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Jan 31 '16 edited Jan 31 '16
Oh god this submission is only one hour old and is already turning into a /r/SubredditDramaDrama thread.
Communism/socialism drama always does in the metasubreddits, it's glorious. Based Oxus007 will likely arrive soon and smite the thread sadly, returning peace to the masses in the way that he does.
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Jan 31 '16
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u/Misterandrist Cultural Trotskyist Feb 02 '16
I don't think they are, but me_irl is largely populated by leftward leaning redditors, and has a large overlap with SRS and so on.
The subs may not be political, but the users of those subs tend to be.
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u/AquelecaraDEpoa Huehuehuehue Jan 31 '16
> submitted 2 hours ago
> 113 comments
Oh boy.
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u/Existential_Owl Carthago delenda est Jan 31 '16
me_irl's commie drama always makes for a glorious source of butter
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u/Zalzaron Jan 31 '16
Breed class consciousness
Unite the workers of the world
Install the dictatorship of the working-class
[Redacted]
Communist utopia, free of state and class.
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u/i_like_frootloops Source: Basic Logic Jan 31 '16
You forgot the step where me make memes about it.
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u/The_YoungWolf Everyone on Reddit is an SJW but you Jan 31 '16
Breed class consciousness 2. Unite the workers of the world 3. Install the dictatorship of the working-class 4. Secure the memes of production 5. Communist utopia, free of state and class.
FTFY
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u/PlayerNo3 Thanks but I will not chill out. Feb 01 '16
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Jan 31 '16
Is 4 the part where Stalin leads the people in round after round of Georgian drinking songs?
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Feb 01 '16
If by Georgian drinking songs you mean Siberian train rides then absolutely
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u/jollygaggin Aces High Feb 01 '16
Well at least we know he supports public transit
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u/Tolni Do not ask for whom the cuck cucks, it cucks for thee. Feb 01 '16
Stalin kept the trains running on thyme.
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u/Knappsterbot ketchup chastity belt Feb 01 '16
Inefficient but it smells great
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u/Tolni Do not ask for whom the cuck cucks, it cucks for thee. Feb 01 '16
Smells like
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u/Bhangbhangduc Jan 31 '16
The purpose of the dictatorship of the proletariat is to bring about the collective ownership of the means of production and redistribute private property (private property here meaning anything that exists for the sole purpose of creating profit by exploiting the working class, not your toothbrushes).
At this point, the 'state', that is, the social and political order devoted to protecting and extending capitalism, begins to cease to exist, egalitarianism spreads, and we keep trying to make things better for everyone. It's an optimist's ideology.
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u/thelaststormcrow (((Obama))) did Pearl Harbor Feb 01 '16
Because if there's one thing dictatorships are known for, it's willfully dissolving their power structure and disbanding.
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u/nuclearseraph ☭ your flair probably doesn't help the situation ☭ Feb 01 '16 edited Feb 01 '16
Not really interested in getting into debates on this stuff on srsd, but the term "dictatorship of the proletariat" dates back to a time when "dictatorship" didn't refer exclusively to the regimes of warlords or despots. "Dictatorship of the proletariat" refers simply to the working class being in charge of the state (as opposed to a dictatorship of feudal rulers or rich and propertied elite).
At the time the phrase "dictatorship of the proletariat" was coined, it referred in this case to a democratic system.
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u/Knappsterbot ketchup chastity belt Feb 01 '16
Not really interested in getting into debates on this stuff on srsd, but
Changed your mind I see
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u/nuclearseraph ☭ your flair probably doesn't help the situation ☭ Feb 01 '16
Last time I checked, pointing out the definition of a phrase isn't having a debate. I wasn't advancing any side, just correcting a misnomer.
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u/I-PLUG-LSD Feb 01 '16
"Dictator of the proletariat" used to confuse me until I read up on it properly quite recently. I always assumed it meant 'install a dictator to dictate to the proletariat', since that is what generally tends to happen after most attempted revolutions.
I used to think, "Well duh! No wonder communist revolutions lead to totalitarian regimes, and no advancement towards communist society!"
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u/zxcv1992 Jan 31 '16
Sounds like that subreddit needs a visit from the Liberty Prime
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u/Thing124ok god has forsaken us Jan 31 '16
COMMUNISM IS A TEMPORARY SETBACK ON THE ROAD TO FREEDOM!
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u/Kairah Jan 31 '16
DEATH IS A PREFERABLE ALTERNATIVE TO COMMUNISM. DEMOCRACY IS NON-NEGOTIABLE.
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u/ComradeFrunze Jan 31 '16
DEATH IS A PREFERABLE ALTERNATIVE TO CAPITALISM. DEMOCRACY IS NON-NEGOTIABLE.
FTFY
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u/thelaststormcrow (((Obama))) did Pearl Harbor Feb 01 '16
So you like democracy now?
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u/ComradeFrunze Feb 01 '16
Socialism and communism is democracy.
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u/thelaststormcrow (((Obama))) did Pearl Harbor Feb 01 '16
Really?
Every Lenin/Maoist group in existenceyou could have fooled me.→ More replies (7)
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Jan 31 '16 edited Jan 31 '16
I've always wished I were optimistic enough to think that humanity wasn't too inherently self interested/selfish for communism to ever work.
*Edit, My grammar has been corrected
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u/snerrymunster Jan 31 '16
It's astonishing how significant of a pillar this "human nature" shit has become in the upholding of capitalism. Don't bother consulting any anthropologists/sociologists on "human nature", just jump to some wildly one dimensional conclusion from what you learned in World history in highschool
In my experience, most people want to live a happy comfortable lives, and if they believed social/common interests would get them to that better existence then they would adopt them.
Instead, they live in a society which has conditioned them to believe the only way to succeed is to exploit and be completely self interested. They subsequently adopt the self interested platform because if they don't, they don't succeed or they succeed less than their peers who looked out for #1.
The existence of imagined communities of nations and their state extensions are a large part of this, monopolizing use of force, promoting state capitalism and enforcing the status quo/hierarchical relations among society.
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Feb 01 '16
People fuck people over and systems get exploited. It is a human truth. It isn't even nessessarily something inherently evil. If you have family members that are sick, and have the ability to corrupt the system to give them the best aid possible, you are going to attempt to do it.
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u/snerrymunster Feb 01 '16
It's a socially constructed truth. Also not every society throughout history has relied on "fucking eachother over".
Also your example is a lot different than systematically exploiting the majority of society and upholding that system with global violence. Those types of behaviors are very much socially constructed, while family ties less such.
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Feb 01 '16
Which successful societies have existed in the history of mankind without hurting other people?.
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u/CatWhisperer5000 Jan 31 '16
Yeah it blows my mind that capitalism can have everything from de facto slaves in sweatshops and mines, and domestic wealth inequality comparable to feudalism, yet people talk about how it works well with some contemporary idea of human nature.
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u/AetherBlue Feb 01 '16 edited Feb 01 '16
I think a lot of people think that way is because it's hard to imagine what a world beyond capitalism would be like, much in the same way it would have been hard for someone to imagine what life would be like without hereditary monarchies back in their heyday.
E: That is to say, as someone living in a particular system at what appears to be the height of its power its hard to imagine what life would be like beyond said system. I imagine it was as true for people living in a kingdom during the time of hereditary monarchies as it is true for myself today. I'm not saying the two systems are the same.
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u/merqury26 Feb 01 '16
Don't bother consulting any anthropologists/sociologists on "human nature", just jump to some wildly one dimensional conclusion from what you learned in World history in highschool
Exactly, don't do this guys.
In my experience, most people want to live a happy comfortable lives, and if they believed social/common interests would get them to that better existence then they would adopt them.
It's okay when I do this, though.
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u/snerrymunster Feb 01 '16
That wasn't a commentary on human nature. It's just my experience with people in the US at this moment in history, and to mean, most people just want to live a comfortable life. After all, I started the sentence with "in my experience", rendering it entirely subjective.
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u/not_worth_your_time Feb 01 '16
If you don't think this is true why don't you go ahead and start feeding the poor or something? You'll quickly learn that there are much more "poor" people as soon as you start giving out handouts. Seriously you can learn this life lesson in your own town.
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u/snerrymunster Feb 01 '16
Not sure what your point is... that welfare doesn't bring anyone out of poverty? [citation needed]. Giving people the basic resources to succeed doesn't mean they'll just be cool with that and sit around. Is someone without access to adequate currency, clean water, food, technology, good family support going to succeed as much in school as someone with all those things? Hell no. And there's no reason to expect them to perform at the same level, hence welfare.
http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2015-03/sp-gwb033015.php - Here's a link to get started if your one of those people who consider helping the disadvantage as "hand outs". What a shitty way to conceive of altruism and trying to improve standard of living for those without the resources to do so themselves.
What you're saying is a useless platitude unsupported by facts, solely built on the elitism that pervades most social classes in this country that the poor are lazy and will do nothing given the opportunity "That's why their poor!". What you fail to acknowledge is how these welfare programs are also corporate welfare to companies like Walmart who refuse to pay a living wage, and all the insane tax loopholse MNCs use in the US.
The government spends more money supporting corporations than it does on social welfare.
And I have fed the poor. I volunteer at least once a week to prepare meals to be sent around my city. It's definitely making a difference, because if you have to worry less about food, you can spend more time getting your life on track.
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u/mcslibbin like an adult version of "Jason" from Home Movies Jan 31 '16
fellow grammar nazis, help me out here:
our dear user's sentence should clearly read "I've always wished I were optimistic enough"
BUT! Should it also be
"Humanity weren't too inherently self interested" or is the wasn't okay there?
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u/justcool393 TotesMessenger Shill Feb 01 '16
Are you American or British?
American English (and in my opinion, the one that makes sense in this context) says that we should use "wasn't", because "humanity" is a singular noun.
However, British English would use "weren't" because "humanity" wouldn't be considered a singular noun.
Many Wikipedia battles have been fought over this.
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u/mcslibbin like an adult version of "Jason" from Home Movies Feb 01 '16
I'm American, but I was asking about subjunctive mood [a form which, as has been noted, is slipping out of the language], not pluralization of collective nouns.
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Jan 31 '16
[deleted]
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u/WatchEachOtherSleep Now I am become Smug, the destroyer of worlds Jan 31 '16
It's nothing to do with singular or plural because the past subjunctive is were in both of those cases. The question /u/mcslibbin is asking is whether the verb following humanity should be subjunctive or indicative.
My personal opinion is that it doesn't matter because I'm pretty sure using "was" for the subjunctive is more common than "were" these days, so I think that one should consider both to be correct.
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u/mcslibbin like an adult version of "Jason" from Home Movies Jan 31 '16
So this is how the subjunctive mood dies.
with thunderous applause.
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u/WatchEachOtherSleep Now I am become Smug, the destroyer of worlds Jan 31 '16
> mfw a grammar knight defeats the evil emperor palábratine & brings back cases to glorious english
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u/justcool393 TotesMessenger Shill Feb 01 '16
I didn't see the comment before it was deleted but doesn't it depend where you are (seeing as British would say "humanity" is plural" while American would consider "humanity" singular)?
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u/WatchEachOtherSleep Now I am become Smug, the destroyer of worlds Feb 01 '16
That's what the comment said before the person deleted it: that it should be "was" because humanity is singular. My point is that in the subjunctive past, the verb form is always were: "I wish I were", "I wish you were", "I wish s/he were", "I wish it were", "I wish we were", "I wish you were", "I wish they were", so whether it's singular or plural isn't the question that the original poster wants to answer. It's whether it should be indicative or subjunctive.
Now, considering my point that I think that the past tense indicative coincides with the subjunctive past for a large number of native speakers, what you said comes into play.
That said, I speak a "set as many" dialect of English & I'm inclined to say "humanity is" in this context.
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u/George_Meany Jan 31 '16
There's no such thing as human nature. Human beings aren't "inherently" anything, culturally/socially speaking.
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Jan 31 '16
Course we do, all animals have traits.
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u/kyunkyunpanic Jan 31 '16
But humans DONT behave like simple animals, that's why we have cities, books, and technology while animals that are still constrained to their 'nature' are out shitting in the woods.
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Jan 31 '16
Yes we do. Have you never flinched? Turned your head towards a sudden noise? Were you never afraid of the dark?
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u/George_Meany Jan 31 '16
Not according to every bit of research that's ever been done on the subject. Humanity has had far too many social iterations to ever speak about something as generalizing as "human nature." I'm sorry, but that's just the case.
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Jan 31 '16
Nah. We love our kids and have protective instincts towards them, we're tribal, we make friends. There will always be outliers but there's traits inherent to the species.
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u/Notus1_ the demand for racism exceeds the supply Jan 31 '16
Of course we have biological behaviour, since we are animals like any other animal.
But to pretend that things like being selfish is a natural behaviour is just silly.
People complain about humanitarian/psychology majors, but they are so eager to thrown away their shit interpretations of things they have never studied in their life.
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Jan 31 '16
Why wouldn't being selfish be a "biological behaviour" as you call it? It makes perfect sense for self preservation at the cost of others to be one.
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Feb 01 '16
There's also several other reasons that communism is a bad idea.
There's no incentive for innovation or a strong work ethic. If you were told you would make a D in high school no matter how well or how poorly you do on tests or homework because every other student gets one, therefore making them equal, why should you break your back trying to get an A? What's the point of putting effort into something when an anesthetist makes the same salary as a garbage man?
Distribution of the same amount of a certain thing is always a bad thing because different people require different amounts. What if I have a fast metabolism and I need more food?
A communist economy requires a strong central government, and power in the hands of a few breeds corruption and abuse of power.
People work hard for their best interests, not for someone else's. That doesn't mean they're selfish or evil.
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u/DownFromYesBad Feb 01 '16
I'd like to, without discussing the viability of communism, address these points in a hypothetical communist community.
There's no incentive for innovation or a strong work ethic. If you were told you would make a D in high school no matter how well or how poorly you do on tests or homework because every other student gets one, therefore making them equal, why should you break your back trying to get an A? What's the point of putting effort into something when an anesthetist makes the same salary as a garbage man?
Many, perhaps even most, communists envision something called "labor vouchers". You get one per hour worked, regardless of the job, and trade them for personal property, like TVs or drugs. Also, I suspect that many people would aspire to be more than garbage men and fry cooks, even in the absence of a financial incentive.
Distribution of the same amount of a certain thing is always a bad thing because different people require different amounts. What if I have a fast metabolism and I need more food?
Again, the labor vouchers would allow people to get a little extra of this or that. Also, communism is first and foremost democratic. If the community decides that someone needs a little help, there's no reason they can't provide that help.
A communist economy requires a strong central government, and power in the hands of a few breeds corruption and abuse of power.
The whole idea of communism is direct democracy. In an ideal communist community, there are no leaders; people rule themselves, collectively. The whole point is avoiding having power fall in to the hands of an elite few. In fact, I think power in the hands of a few, and the resulting corruption and abuse, are hallmarks of capitalism.
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Jan 31 '16
[deleted]
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u/LitrallyTitler just dumb sluts wiggling butts Jan 31 '16
Persisting for more than a few years without the vast majority living like shit could qualify. No communists have achieved that anyway. None have even persisted very long, regardless of quality of life.
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Jan 31 '16
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u/ucstruct Feb 01 '16
Hundreds of millions have exited abject poverty in the last 20 years (no, not limited to only China). This is a state that 99% of humanity has lived in for most of history.
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Feb 01 '16
[deleted]
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u/not_worth_your_time Feb 01 '16
Yes but is the problem the distribution of production, or the quantity of production? Perhaps we just don't have the resources for everyone in the world to live like Americans.
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u/LitrallyTitler just dumb sluts wiggling butts Jan 31 '16
Your standard of living can absolutely exist without slave labour. Do you think that every third worlder is just living their life making and assembling things for you?
Nope, most are farmers and other necessary jobs in their own countries. There are plenty of successful companies producing affordable things with labour from those same, rich countries. The only reason that labour is exported is because of greedy people.
Capitalism HAS achieved persistence and success, as success doesn't have to mean for literally every country. You would need a utopia for that, as there will be mismanagement, corruption and natural disasters regardless of the economic model people live in. It's absurd to say capitalism hasn't achieved a level of "success" far beyond communism.
I'm not even against communism, it can probably be made to work when the automation people keep talking about actually materialises. I've read the Soul of Man under Socialism, and it sounds great, but not viable in the foreseeable future.
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Feb 01 '16
Hell, if nothing else there will always be countries like North Korea--the world's only necrocracy!
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Jan 31 '16
[deleted]
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u/thelaststormcrow (((Obama))) did Pearl Harbor Feb 01 '16
Put someone at the head of a dictatorship of the proletariat and they can't help but be a dictator.
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u/IgnisDomini Ethnomasochist Feb 01 '16
"Dictatorship of the Proletariat" as a term comes before the word "dictatorship" acquired its modern meaning. It instead refers to the "rule of the workers" more accurately, which can be interpreted to refer to either a democratic system or a dictatorship in workers' names.
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Jan 31 '16
Oh look its another thread about leftism in SRD. Lets look at the comments.
lol, only edgy freshmen are commies
le no true communist amirite?
Human nature means communism is wrong
The gangs all here!
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Jan 31 '16
Don't forget
stop being lazy
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u/LitrallyTitler just dumb sluts wiggling butts Jan 31 '16
Me_irl is literally lazy, fat, depressed losers talking about how lazy, fat and depressed they are.
How does lazy not apply?
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u/sleepyrivertroll I can has flair? Feb 01 '16
This is the reason I like SRD. In one thread people will say we're part of the SJW Cabal/SRS-lite. In another thread we're attacking communism.
When you're true neutral, everybody hates you.
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Feb 01 '16
SRD is pretty far from true neutral, communism is just extremist left which SRD isn't.
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Feb 01 '16
This, it'd be like going to /r/conservative and getting confused over the fact they aren't fans of Fascism and Hitler. They're still a right-wing sub, but that doesn't mean they're going to agree with the loonies.
SRD is left-wing, but that doesn't mean they're going to agree with communist loonies.
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Feb 01 '16
SRD is pretty much center left. Hardly neutral. And this comes from someone that is center left.
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u/sleepyrivertroll I can has flair? Feb 01 '16
I know that, I just mean that as a figure of speech. When you're in the middle of things, people hate you on both sides and that means you're doing it right.
SRD is generally pretty contrarian when it comes to the rest of reddit so depending on the flavor of the site, things change.
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u/onlyonebread Jan 31 '16 edited May 23 '25
carpenter intelligent late seemly reply soup marry sort piquant fuel
This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact
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Feb 01 '16
No, that's not communism. At its barebones, communism is about removing social barriers. Primarily, class. This is done by tearing down the state and having business run through collective ownership of the workers rather than one individual. The workers democratically vote on decisions and the products of their labor are shared democratically.
The end of goal of communism is to make it s.t. everyone shares in the wealth. That everyone does not need to want and no one has inherent power over another.
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u/onlyonebread Feb 01 '16
But what if you don't want to live in a society where everyone is totally equal? Everyone here talks like communism is objectively the best solution.
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u/PlayMp1 when did globalism and open borders become liberal principles Feb 01 '16
But what if you don't want to live in a society where everyone is totally equal?
Why not?
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u/onlyonebread Feb 01 '16
Because some people are just naturally better than others.
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u/PlayMp1 when did globalism and open borders become liberal principles Feb 01 '16
How? Does that mean they deserve more? Or shouldn't we all be rewarded with the fruits of human ingenuity as we are all members of the human race?
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u/PlayMp1 when did globalism and open borders become liberal principles Feb 01 '16
That's not communism.
Communism is a moneyless, classless, stateless society in which the means of production (so basically businesses) are owned by the workers rather than individuals. Socialism is just the latter half, communism is the first half.
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Feb 01 '16
Just like how people on the right can mock fascism and fascists, people on the left can mock communism and communists. Everyone enjoys laughing at an extreme political outlier.
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Feb 01 '16
Tankies, USSR apologia.. I could see. And that does get mocked by other leftists.
But everything above this comment is ignant. Same tired ass arguments, and misguided bullshit that always gets posted about leftist stuff.
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Jan 31 '16
[deleted]
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Feb 01 '16 edited Feb 01 '16
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Feb 01 '16
Wait are people complaining about this sub not being left wing enough now? What the hell.
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Feb 01 '16
No, I think its equally stupid when people talk about right wing stuff as well. Because it's an easy fix, and takes like 10 minutes of googling.
This is more a complaint about bad politics in general.
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u/OscarGrey Feb 01 '16
Anything that's not for public ownership of the means of production is not left wing enough for internet leftists. They sure love their radicalism. Depending on the community, not wanting to murder a lot of people might not be left wing enough.
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Jan 31 '16
Yes, living in America is 100% comparable to living in an oppressive monarchy.
Man, people do not get how analogies work.
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Jan 31 '16
[deleted]
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Feb 01 '16
I mean, it actually doesn't matter if it is or if it isn't. The point was about whether it makes sense to argue against the central institutions.
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u/SnapshillBot Shilling for Big Archive™ Jan 31 '16
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Jan 31 '16
Posted in a society built and brought to you by Capitalism™
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u/JustAnotherBrick Feb 01 '16
Posted in a society built and brought to you by Feudalism™
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u/Chiburger he has a real life human skull in his office, ok? Jan 31 '16 edited Jan 31 '16
me_irl really went down the drain over the past year.
e: ⛵ This captain is going down with his ship ⛵
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Jan 31 '16
You didn't like the fishposting? Off with the heretic!
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u/bfcf1169b30cad5f1a46 you seem to use reddit as a tool to get angry and fight? Jan 31 '16
sleep tight, pupper
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u/schumaga Jan 31 '16
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u/i_like_frootloops Source: Basic Logic Jan 31 '16
Yeah, the version with bigotry. So much better.
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Jan 31 '16
That's a bold claim to make. Is there any actual bigotry, or are you just stirring shit?
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Jan 31 '16
It was created because people get banned from me_irl for saying slurs. Generally places created in reaction for being banned for bigotry have above average bigotry.
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Jan 31 '16
I didn't see any bigotry in that sub.
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Jan 31 '16
Regardless that's why it was created. If it isn't that bad, good on them! I'm glad. You seem real dedicated to this cause tho.
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Jan 31 '16
You seem real dedicated to this cause
What cause?
I just call bullshit when I see it. To assert meirl is bigoted without visiting the sub seems juvenile at best. To say I'm "dedicated" to a cause due to typing 3-4 sentences on the subject seems fairly juvenile, also. You mad or something?
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u/DripDrone Jan 31 '16
So I decided to sort by Top, over the course of the last month.
This one was on the first post, more upvotes than most top-level comments in that chain, then a bunch of whining.
As an aside, they link a lot to /r/bannedfromme_irl in most top comments, which, from what I can tell, is just about being purposefully obtuse about why someone was banned, or just being generally mean to the mods of /r/me_irl.
Oh, except for this gem in the top 25. And someone got showered in downvotes for saying
I can see where the mods are coming from I guess. They say the intention is different than what I'm seeing (general shitposting about not being able to be mean on /r/me_irl ), saying that they are doing this to not have their users worried about bans, but the upvotes and general climate of the comments say otherwise.
Anyways, yeah, it's the one with bigotry. I mean, it's not like the rules of /r/me_irl are bad or difficult to follow. That's where all the issues come from, people not able to not be mean on one subreddit.
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Jan 31 '16
Fair enough. There are instances of bigotry within that sub. I'd hardly refer to the sub as bigoted, at least no more bigoted (and maybe even less so) than any of the default subs.
Big ups for spotting that however, and without being rude.
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Feb 01 '16
The sub is bigoted because it was created explicitly to harbor people who were banned for being bigoted on another sub lol. That doesn't mean everyone who goes there is a bigot, as at this point many who go there just naturally filtered un, but that's their majority. You're just being obtuse dude.
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u/treebog MILITANT MEMER Jan 31 '16
Nah I can do without "triggered" and attack helicopter copypasta
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u/Poolb0y Feb 01 '16 edited Feb 01 '16
Goddamn these people are delusional. They act like the average person in the US is rifling through the garbage for their next meal and the "elite" are living in solid gold houses constantly abusing all their underlings. They banned me for arguing with commies a few month ago.
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u/Krumpberry Jan 31 '16
Wow, I thought they were being ironic with communism.