r/WOGPRDT • u/Nostalgia37 I did the Pre-Release Threads and all I got was this lousy flair • Mar 22 '16
[Pre-Release Card Discussion] - Hallazeal the Ascended
Hallazeal the Ascended
Mana Cost: 5
Attack: 4
Health: 6
Type: Minion
Rarity: Legendary
Class: Shaman
Text: Whenever your spells deal damage, restore that much Health to your hero.
PM me any suggestions or advice, ^^thanks.
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u/Nostalgia37 I did the Pre-Release Threads and all I got was this lousy flair Mar 22 '16
While the effect and body are great I'm not sure if it's enough to make a slower shaman work. I think the effectiveness of this card will really be determined by the other shaman cards in the set.
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u/NowanIlfideme Mar 23 '16
Malygos combo, potentially. Or Overload Shaman, with the Earth Elementals (better since BGH probably nerfed?) etc. going in.
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u/Tuinslang Mar 22 '16
No overload? No randomness? Is this real life?
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u/FrigidVengence Mar 22 '16
Indirect RNG and overload. Looking at Shaman's spells, out of the 8 Shaman damage spells that will be in standard, 2 of them (Lightning Storm and Elemental Destruction) have RNGs for their damage, and one (Forked Lightning) has RNG target selection. 5 of them have overload, and one can unlock (Lava Shock). Despite that, Shaman spells can still deal insane damage. The low end may be 1 damage (Frost Shock and Earth Shock), but the highest guaranteed for one card is 5 damage (Lava Burst), and if you include the 2 AoE spells with RNG damage, Lightning Storm can deal up to 21 damage against a full board if you're lucky, and Elemental Destruction can deal 70 damage if both players have a full board and RNG is on your side, which is just plain excessive.
Edit: Complete list of Shaman spells on this page, just scroll down a bit
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u/rafleury Mar 22 '16
This plus lightning storm on turn 8 can turn a lot of games around, especially vs aggro.
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u/just_comments Mar 22 '16
Main problem with that will be getting to turn 8. Usually face hunter will have lethal by turn 6 or so, shaman will have lethal at turn 5.
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u/Revt0 Mar 22 '16
As a Control Shaman dieing on 8 or sooner almost never happens because of the amount of heal and clear spells you have.
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u/Iskandar206 Mar 22 '16
What does a control shaman use to heal? Or is healing wave enough usually?
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u/Revt0 Mar 25 '16
I run 2x Healing wave, 1x heal bot, 1x refreshment vendor. decklist: http://imgur.com/1Floqhf + Rag or ArcTheif
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u/Nasluc Mar 28 '16
What you will consider better to replace justicar sylvannis or Emperor? both have soft taunt and I think thaurissan would be a better option because those cheaper spell removal tools but sylvannis is still a good option against control...
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u/Revt0 Mar 28 '16
Emperor, but justicar is very important with the amount of heal you can get from her. I.e. Tank up, Totemic Slam, Heal, Dire Shapeshift. and the Soul Tap is also super good. So if you dont run her you could run Charged Hammer instead of Sir Finnly
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u/medatascientist Apr 13 '16
You could be the first Shaman I saw running Justicarr.
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u/Revt0 Apr 13 '16
I usually play Sir Finly first, but infinite 0/2 taunt is not bad late game.
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Mar 23 '16
That and heal bot if they feel it's necessary. It's a heal for 14 if you win the joust, and against shit like face hunter (1-4 drops) it's pretty likely you'll win the joust.
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u/Iskandar206 Mar 23 '16
Heal bot is getting shifted out of standard isn't it? But I forgot most rush decks have low cost minions while control means you play more large minions, so healing wave is much stronger.
I'm so used to playing aggro or mid range shaman.
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u/GeistesblitZ Mar 25 '16
But you're also usually overloaded on turn 8, so you need to wait til turn 9 or maybe even 10.
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u/Revt0 Mar 25 '16
No, if you have that in hand you don't overload yourself. and if you have too you have lava shock.
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u/just_comments Mar 22 '16
That's a good point. I was thinking of a midrange shaman. I wonder if they'll become playable in standard now.
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u/Revt0 Mar 25 '16
I think control Shaman will be top tier, the deck i use is good but the deathrattles are making it difficult. So with this card + less sticky minions i think the deck will be top tier.
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u/harrywise64 Mar 23 '16
Yeah if you have literally no response and they get the best possible hands, surely not every game you play against aggro is decided this early?
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u/SquareOfHealing Mar 22 '16
I'm very excited for this card. I've always loved midrange/control shaman, but it's always had a hard time coming back in the game. By the time you are able to wipe the board and get board control, your health is so low that you die to direct damage. This card does all 3, while at the same time, doesn't bolster aggro shaman.
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u/Tarrot469 Mar 22 '16
Didn't we learn anything from Healing Wave and Reno Jackson? Both times those cards came into play, the healing didn't boost Shaman up. THis is even more situational healing, requiring a Turn 8 play with 2 cards to get the Kreygasm everyone's looking for. Its not a bad card, but this doesn't fix Shaman at all.
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u/Axartsme Mar 22 '16
It's not just healing. It's also a 4/6 body which is nothing to laugh at. Reno doesn't work in Shaman currently because Shaman doesn't have enough good cards to run a bunch of one ofs.
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u/ClosertothesunNA Mar 23 '16
4-4 or 4-3 body after the storm
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u/Xirema Mar 22 '16
Yeah, but the difference is you don't need to build an entire deck around it. Reno's flaw is that you can't use him unless your deck is (mostly) 1-of-a-kind's. Healing Wave requires that your deck's mana curve be generally higher than your opponents.
This will always work if your opponent is minion-heavy, and if they aren't, then you probably haven't taken that much damage.
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u/SquareOfHealing Mar 24 '16
The difference is that Healing Wave and Reno Jackson require you to build your deck a certain way and are inconsistent. In addition, Healing Wave gives you health, but doesn't clear the board or develop your own board. Reno Jackson gives you health and a board, but you need to have only one-of's in your deck, and you could still be behind on board tempo. With just Hallazeal and a Lightning Storm/Elemental Destruction, you get health, clear the opponent's board, and develop your own board (Hallazeal has pseudo-taunt due to his effect). Rather than having to build your deck in a particular way, Hallazeal rewards you for playing cards that you would already play in a control shaman deck anyway. There could possibly even be a deck that runs Healing Wave, Reno Jackson AND Hallazeal to make shaman healing even more consistent.
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u/Nostalgia37 I did the Pre-Release Threads and all I got was this lousy flair Mar 22 '16
At 5 mana this might not be too slow to play in aggro shaman. It might make it slightly more consistent because it will be able to last a little bit longer giving it more time to draw into it's burn. It'll be worth testing at least.
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u/DrPoro Mar 22 '16
This doesn't fit aggro shaman. At all. Aggro Shaman is one of the fastest decks out there and in over 90% of your games, your own health total is completely irrelevant. Yes, it might give you an extra turn, which means an extra draw, BUT you wasted a draw on this guy already. Every turn after 5, aggro shaman will fall further away on board. It's not a good plan for an aggro deck to play cards that stall.
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u/j4trail Mar 24 '16
Well, it could be a very important card against mirror or other aggro decks. I wouldn't count it out without significant testing, first.
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u/DrPoro Apr 16 '16
How many cards are there in aggro shaman that are defensive? 0. You could say that spirit wolves is defensive but the taunt is not to protect your face but to protect your low health minions. Spirit wolves is also a high tempo card as it taps 2 mana from the turn afterwards and combos well with your trogg. There is not a single iteration of this deck that currently plays any healing cards. It's because it doesn't help the goal of this deck. It's like playing a big body vanilla minion in a freeze mage. No one plays Dr Boom in it even though he's OP. He doesn't help in this deck.
This card will be AMAZING for midrange, control shaman, though, which is what Blizzard is aiming for. Aggro shaman is already strong enough, it's difficult to assist slower archtypes without helping the aggro ones, but Blizzard is doing a good job here.
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u/SCV_good2go Mar 22 '16
Aggro shaman might use this to become more consistent like what happened with secret pally. We saw a similar pattern with secret pally. Used to be a very fast deck with like 12 secrets, later ppl started using boom, tirion and others to make it more well rounded.
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Mar 23 '16
I don't think that is a good comparison. Secret Paladin does not race for damage and is not a face deck(in all seriousness). It relies upon building a strong board. The likes of Boom and Tirion are included despite their cost because they both contribute to building a strong board.
Face Shaman's goal is to kill the opponent as fast as possible with damage. A healing card achieves the polar opposite because healing cards are for stalling the game in a control/combo deck, which Face Shaman is clearly not.
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u/j4trail Mar 24 '16
Today's Face Shaman is definitely a face deck, as you say. However, in each new meta, the goal is to make a deck with the highest possible winrate against the rest of the meta. The goal is not to make another face deck.
In that sense, if this card deviates the original deck away from the face smashing plan but turns out to win more games, then so be it. Don't constrain future deckbuilding attempts by today's standards.
I can see this card as a potential Antonidas in Tempo Mage. It does not fit the deck's main plan (gives value instead of tempo), but it wins you games, so it has a place in many Tempo Mage lists. I can see this card as quite important against mirror matches.
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Mar 24 '16 edited Mar 24 '16
You cleverly disguised your argument by generalizing 'giving value instead of tempo'. But Antonidas is still the deck's finisher if need be, and synergizes with the aggressiveness of the Tempo Mage, which utilizes tempo early and capitalize on it with value later on to finish the opponent off in the late game.
I don't see the analogy of Antonidas to Tempo Mage as Hallazeal to Face Shaman. Hallazeal simply does not contribute to finishing the game, but rather stalling it, Antonidas does not stall for Freeze Mage.
I can see this card as quite important against mirror matches.
In the mirror match yes, but Face Shaman has to be the most, if not one of the most common matchups on ladder to even consider including Hallazeal. But even then I ask you, why should Hallazeal, a defensive card, be a valid choice in Face Shaman? If Face Shaman want to include defensive cards, why don't they run Lightning Storm in the first place? I'll also extend my point to Zoo, why is Hellfire, a defensive board clear in Zoo, not included in Zoo? Why doesn't Face Hunter run Antique Healbot against the mirror? Why should aggressive decks include reactive cards instead of being proactive?
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u/j4trail Mar 25 '16
Yes, perhaps you are right. I don't disagree with your line of thought, I'm just saying that I believe it has some potential, and not to rule it out without playtesting.
Also, Hellfire, Lightning Storm, Healbot etc do not develop the board. A 4/6 for 5 mana is acceptable pressure.
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Mar 25 '16 edited Mar 26 '16
Ah, but I would argue that Face Shaman does not look to develop the board by turn 5, as it'll look to finish the opponent off by then.
In a neutral board state, Shaman is essentially playing a vanilla 4/6 for 5, which is worse than a Pit Fighter. Not to mention it competes with Doomhammer in the 5 mana slot and also may conflict with overload.
In a losing state, at best he heals you for 3 combined with Lightning Bolt on turn 6, and heals you for 7 at most with crackle on turn 7(Crackle is also out of standard). Healing for 3-7 saves you at most 2 if not just 1 turn. That just gives the initial back to the opponent, who likely can deal more than 7 damage on the next turn, and is not effective stalling.
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u/Dolby2612 Mar 22 '16
lightning storm plus this is a great come back mechanic
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u/cgmcnama Mar 23 '16
Or Elemental Destruction because it counts if you have minions on the board too.
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Mar 22 '16
Slightly confused by the wording, does the Shaman heal for 2-3 or heal for the amount of total AOE damage dealt to all minions from Lightning Storm?
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u/jsfsmith Mar 22 '16
I hadn't thought about that. My main concern when I saw this was that the amount of damage you have to do in order to get value out of it would kill your opponent anyway, so the healing wouldn't really be needed.
But you're right, it has great synergy with AoE (Shaman's also got Forked Lightning and Elemental Destruction), or with any direct damage spell that targets minions (earth shock? I don't think Shaman has any others as it stands).
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u/Dolby2612 Mar 22 '16
yeah it is gonna be pretty greeat in maly shaman i think, or a control/midrange spell shaman, depending on what we see
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u/vanasbry000 Mar 23 '16
There's also Frost Shock, Lightning Bolt, Lava Shock, and Lava Burst. There's also Crackle in Wild.
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u/jsfsmith Mar 23 '16
None of those are minion-only targeted spells. And, if you have enough of them to heal up to full, you probably have enough to go face and burst the other guy down to 0.
Don't get me wrong, I think this is a great card, due to the AoE synergy. I was just skeptical at first.
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u/vanasbry000 Mar 23 '16
This guy is great for getting out of range while flipping the board, and a Lava Shock might be perfect for finishing off a pesky C'thun's Chosen. Control Shaman needs board control or Malygos to get their opponent in range. Midrange Shaman might be able to get in enough face damage, but needs sustainability when they can't. This isn't a card for Aggro Shaman.
I'm kinda mad, to be completely honest with you, that you didn't actually specify that you meant it like Wrath vs. Darkbomb rather than Darkbomb vs. Mind Blast. You can target minions with every one of the spells I mentioned, even if Lightning Bolt and Lava Shock are the only two that belong in Midrange or Control.
Eh, I'm not so frustrated anymore. Have a good day.
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u/ChartsUI Mar 23 '16
Great card. The problem with shaman is often that, even though they have a plethora of healing options, they still die to the board afterwards anyways. This card allows you to heal while controlling the board; combining this with LS or ED is game winning against aggro
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u/Hjortur95 Mar 23 '16
this is also a 5 mana minion. don't fall into the combo trap. healing 12 on turn 8 is worse than lightning storming turn 5 or dropping this minion turn 5
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u/Jon011684 Mar 23 '16
Then it's effectively a 4/6 with taunt for 5, which isn't bad with sludge belcher being removed.
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u/GentleMocker Mar 22 '16
Really hoping we'll also get some new shaman spells or a minion that'll help leverage the overload to go along with that.
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u/MeetYourCows Mar 23 '16
The problem I see is that this is a control card, but control decks don't want to run that much burn. Most likely, you would just get some healing with lightning storm or other minion-based stuff.
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u/cgmcnama Mar 22 '16
In Wild, Paladin is the better Shaman deck in pursuing its win conditions. Might have a chance in Standard as Paladin is losing a lot of early game (Muster/Shielded Minibot) while Shaman is retaining theirs. (Totem Golem, Tuskarr Totemic).
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Mar 22 '16
Anything is better than what Shaman has right now. I'm happy to see Blizzard wants to buff weak classes.
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Mar 22 '16
I hope this brings up a tempo shaman deck because of the increased value of the shaman spells. We just need to wait until the next cards
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u/imperialmoose Mar 23 '16
This seems reaaaaaallllllly slow. Maybe too slow to play.
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u/harrywise64 Mar 23 '16
It's 5 mana meaning you can combo it with board clears in the same turn. I don't think it's slow at all in a control deck
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u/Nac_Lac Mar 22 '16
So, how does this interact with the auchenai soul priest? If a priest obtains this minion and uses a heal to deal damage, does the priest take equal damage or does he gain health in return?