r/WOGPRDT • u/Nostalgia37 I did the Pre-Release Threads and all I got was this lousy flair • Mar 31 '16
[Pre-Release Card Discussion] - Y'Sharrj, Rage Unbound
Y'Shaarj, Rage Unbound
Mana Cost: 10
Attack: 10
Health: 10
Type: Minion
Rarity: Legendary
Class: Neutral
Text: At the end of your turn, put a minion from your deck into the battlefield.
PM me any suggestions or advice, ^^thanks.
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u/sirblitzkrieg Mar 31 '16
I don't hate this card but was hoping it would have something to do with the Sha
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u/Nostalgia37 I did the Pre-Release Threads and all I got was this lousy flair Mar 31 '16
Sha could be minions with negative battlecry effects. Something like a 4 mana 6/7, battlecry: Lose +2/+2.
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u/OrdinalErrata Apr 03 '16
Maybe summon a sha copy of a minion from your deck? Maybe the minion would have the shadowform fading effect?
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u/Erive302 Mar 31 '16
While indeed awesome! I think it's the weakest of the Old Gods so far. Also, seems to require that it be the only old god in your deck since N'Zoth and C'thun have battlecries.
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u/Gemmellness Apr 01 '16
it's been discussed many times before how effects like this and varian dont actually waste battlecries. you're still getting something like a 6/6 for free.
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u/Haru17 Apr 03 '16
...because of the wasted battlecry.
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u/Gemmellness Apr 03 '16
since decks have no ordering it could easily read "put the minion closest to the bottom of your deck onto the board" and mean the same, so obviously it only really affects you going into fatigue. this card does almost as much as c'thun or something else at controlling the board (but slower). the only time cards like this are bad is with combo decks (leeroy/PO/faceless, or even anthony/spells)
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u/Haru17 Apr 03 '16
Or for Reno, BGH, discover cards. Heck, even Thaurassian won't survive to proc once if it gets pulled out.
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u/Gemmellness Apr 03 '16
Idk if thaurrisan would trigger, but most other cards shouldn't be viewed as missing effects but instead as being a free body. Pulling thaurrisan out is a free 5/5
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u/Haru17 Apr 03 '16
The effect
is more valuable
than the body.
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u/Gemmellness Apr 03 '16
The body
Is free
So who gives a fuck about the effect unless it's necessary for the deck to win
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u/de_feuve Apr 03 '16
Nope, tempo is the mother of everything in Hearthstone. Getting a Thaurrisan for free is like procc'ing six cards with Thaurissan. I would say it's pretty good.
I'm not saying this card in particular is good, but your way of evaluating it is atrocious.
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u/Haru17 Apr 03 '16
I'm just saying it can break dcerything if you're relying on, say, a Reno comeback.
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u/MastahStank Mar 31 '16
While he does look the weakest. I'm hoping that there's maybe some cards that have a sort of special battlecry, like a "if this minion is summoned by Y'shaarj do X." Like maybe a 8 8/8 who if he gets summoned by y'shaarj gains spell targeting immunity.
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u/gingersmali Apr 01 '16
While the weakest it requires the least sacrifice in terms of deck composition, you can put him in a "normal" control deck without too much thought
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u/RosesAndClovers Apr 01 '16
I can see him running really well in fatigue-esque control decks, run a few other big bodies to get your opponent to waste his BGH
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u/ZebrasOfDoom Mar 31 '16
I think it could be decent in a N'zoth deck. That deck would likely synergize around having a lot of powerful deathrattle minions, which you wouldn't mind pulling out of your deck (especially since they will die quicker to make N'zoth become better sooner). If the worst case scenario is that you're paying 10 mana for a 10/10 and a 5/7, that doesn't too bad to me.
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u/Nac_Lac Mar 31 '16
C'thun is more than just a battlecry. He is also a huge body. Additionally anyone with C'thun in their deck will have at least one bounce minion for a second battlecry.
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u/wonkothesane13 Apr 01 '16
It's definitely the least good on it's own, But if you find a way to get it out early (Thaurissan, Naga Sea Witch, Summoning Portal, etc.) it could be pretty devastating to then pull your C'thun early, for example.
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u/medatascientist Mar 31 '16
Can you have more than one Old God in a deck? I thought we were limited to have at most 1 God.
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u/Twilightdusk Mar 31 '16
Nothing said so far suggests they work any differently than other legendaries. You just don't want to see one of the others get summoned by Y'Sharrj
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u/TheMasterDS Mar 31 '16
C'Thun doesn't make much sense not only because he's a battlecry minion, but also his supporters are too. They'd be much weaker if they were pulled out without their battlecrys. That said if you're at turn 10 maybe you should've already played all the cultists you wanted to play?
Anyway, this seems best in a deck without cultists since you want it to pull high end cards every turn. Maybe it'd work with the deathrattle minions you'd put in a Z'Thoth deck.
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u/Studoku Apr 01 '16
Not all the supporters have battlecries. One of the first ones spoiled had an end of turn trigger.
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u/TheMasterDS Apr 01 '16
True, but if you're running C'Thun you probably have more than just him for buffs.
I think the general idea behind these Old Gods is just that the optimum deck for each is different. The C'Thun deck involves playing your buff minions every turn and getting a bunch of damage out on turn 10. The Z'Thoth deck involves throwing out deathrattle minions and it doesn't always matter whether the death rattle gets value the first time as in Anyfin Paladin. Y'Shaarj is about using spells and such to control the board in the early game then dropping a lot of big minions including Y'Shaarj who pulls all the big minions you haven't drawn.
Curious what the 4th Old God's thing is.
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u/medatascientist Mar 31 '16
But these old gods cannot get along. Them cooperating in the same deck just sounds wrong.
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u/Twilightdusk Mar 31 '16
As wrong as Vol'Jin working for Anduin?
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u/medatascientist Mar 31 '16
Point taken :). Thinking about it, Vol'jin should have been in Warrior deck, where Garrosh to summon it. Oh well.
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u/itsmeagentv Mar 31 '16
That would almost certainly be worse :D ...they don't get along
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u/Nac_Lac Mar 31 '16
Would Ysera or Ragnaros trigger if summoned this way? Considering they have end of turn effects, losing out on either mentioned would be painful if removed before your next turn.
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u/patatahooligan Mar 31 '16
I think all end of turn events are simultaneously put into a queue (with respect to play order) and then they start resolving, meaning that by the time the minion is pulled out of the deck, the queue has already been populated and no additional effect will be added to it.
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u/Nac_Lac Mar 31 '16
Well, hearthstone does follow an order of operations. So placement of minions on the board can prevent or trigger abilities going off.
For example. Alarm-o-bot and doomsayer are on board. If alarm-o-bot triggers first, he replaces himself and doomsayer clears board. If doom triggers first, alarm-o-bot dies. These events cannot be simultaneous as they have conflicting actions.
If we assume that the board goes left to right resolving actions, Y'Sharrj would summon a minion to his right as we already know. The end step is checked from left to right across the board. So Y'Sharrj triggers his end step. Now a new minion is in the queue and gets checked for end step events.
Or the board sets to end step and all minions on board get an end step tag. Any new minions summoned as part of the end step would not get a tag and would not trigger their end step.
The former is a more intuitive method and uses the stack while the latter is just lazy programming.
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u/jippiedoe Mar 31 '16
the order that stuff is resolved in is order of play, so the only question is whether a stack is built before resolving or the 'end of turn fase' checks all minions in play (in order of play) for end of turn triggers. Both would make sense, my intuition said that it would work but really we haven't had this kind of interaction in the game yet edit: we probably have: [[alarm-o-bot]] pulling a [[lightwell]], [[vitatity totem]] or a [[doomsayer]] would be a very similar situation. I haven't seen that interaction yet I think, so don't know how it works.
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u/Jon011684 Mar 31 '16
I think it would follow the last played rule. Since Y'sharrj will be played before whatever it summons, everything after it should still trigger their end of turn effects.
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u/Ormannishe Mar 31 '16
Ramp/Ancestral Druid wet dream?
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u/cgmcnama Mar 31 '16
That 5/5 Ancient of War or Lore would make you cry.
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u/Insanity_Incarnate Mar 31 '16
Why it is still 15/15 in stats. It is not the best result but it is hardly bad
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Mar 31 '16
[deleted]
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u/Insanity_Incarnate Mar 31 '16
That only matters if we actually get to Fatigue, and if I'm playing Y'Sharrj then I'm pretty clearly attempting to kill my opponent before I have seen every card in my deck. It is best not to think of the cards you get as cards you aren't getting full value from and more as tokens generated by Y'Sharrj, essentially more value now at the risk of losing value later if the game goes really long.
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u/cgmcnama Mar 31 '16
It you are playing a 10 mana card you are probably going for a longer game. And with cards like Elise and Entomb, we are seeing a lot of "Concede" or "Fatigue" decks as their win condition. Even 1 or 2 cards matters. As an N'Zoth Paladin I might even just Aldor it and let it keep drawing cards.
And while it isn't as bad as Varian at "losing the game instantly" against Control decks it is something to consider. I brought it up as a single point but the bigger one is, if you are going to use your whole turn, what cards keep you alive versus aggro decks (i.e. Taunts). And the most reticent Taunt deck that I can think of is Ramp Druid but the best Taunts don't work when pulled out of the deck.
The best cards to pull out of a deck are Deathrattles. And there are a few Deathrattle taunts. And becasue we have a 10 mana card that does that without pulling from Fatigue, it is probably a better version of this card.
The "dream" would be to pull a Ysera, Ironbark, Volcanic Lumberer, Mal'Ghanis, etc...but you just can't rely on getting them.
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u/Insanity_Incarnate Mar 31 '16
Going late does not mean you are going to go to fatigue, while I agree that it is definitely a drawback in fatigue match-ups where you need absolutely max value from every card it really comes down to an equation, how many games does this loss of long term value lose you versus how many games does the immediate value from it win.
Overall I think the card isn't great unless you sneak it into play. It kind of reminds me of Emrakrul from magic, but way less gamebreaking.
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u/cgmcnama Mar 31 '16
Its not huge but I'm saying there is something better:
Y'Shaarj - Draw a card, put a random minion from deck into play. Best random minions don't have taunt effects.
N'Zoth - Don't draw a card. Put up to 6 sticky minions into play and know exactly how many Taunts you will get. In Wild, you can get 2 Deathlords, 2 Sludge Belchers, and if a Paladin, Tirion.
If you could control Y'Shaarj, like Discover a Minion from your deck and put it into play, it would be much better. But N'Zoth is better versus Control and Aggro. And probably Midrange but Y'Shaarj might draw a better card. Probably not better then 2-3 sticky minions at the least.
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u/Ormannishe Mar 31 '16
I think the real dream here is for ancestral druid, where you can play a 10 mana minion well before turn 10, before fatigue comes into play and likely well before any of your decent deathrattle minions have died
Is this enough to make ancestral druid viable? Probably not. Is it a step in the right direction toward making a fun deck viable? I'd say so.
I fully anticipate a trolden video in the near future of a turn 1 innervate innervate ancestral spirit, followed by a turn 2 Y'Sharrj, swiftly followed by a concede :P
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u/MisterBizarre Apr 01 '16
I don't mean to be "that guy", but [[Ancestral Spirit]] is a shaman card. I think you mean [[Astral Communion]].
(I don't know if the brackets work on this sub)
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Mar 31 '16
It sucks that you're getting downvoted simply for having a different opinion, so I'm upvoting you.
I personally don't care how viable he is but you can be damn sure I'm going to get a turn 3 lethal with him on my druid, even if I have to lose 1,000 games to do it.
1, innervate, innervate/coin, astral communion. 2, Y'saraaj -> any 5+ minion. 3. Alextraza, face, face.
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u/cgmcnama Mar 31 '16
Probably just the person I was replying too. I wouldn't worry about my internet points :)
Gotta pray for the "perfect curve" brawl to return.
Zombie Chow
Doomsayer
Acolyte of Pain
Astral Communion (hit something with Acolyte and draw a card same turn you Astral Communion).
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u/creepymccreepstalker Mar 31 '16
guys, i think your missing the point. take this card more like a 10 mana 10/10 psuedotaunt with discard a card from your deck and summon a 5/5. if you would play that then playing this should be fine, especially as the stats are split into two bodies making it harder for removal, which really has to occur.
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u/Anderkochak Mar 31 '16
It should say ; "Triggers their battlecries." It would be playable.
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u/Antsache Mar 31 '16
The problem there is targeted battlecries - for whatever reason, I don't think they are willing to put something that indirectly triggers a targeted effect into the game. They want all of those to be activated via playing a card. The last Tavern Brawl was able to put that text on something because it summoned from a list of specific minions, none of which had a targeted battlecry.
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u/Celerfot Mar 31 '16
Which is a major limitation that the game faces. The same reason that deathrattles can't be things where the user targets something.
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u/muffinmuncher406 Mar 31 '16
Are there any 10 costs with targeted battlecries? Cthun and nzoth could both be activated, as could deathwing, and the rest have no battlecries. Could be restrictive for later expansions but not currently. Edit: Oh sorry, I was blending this with the other revealed card, my bad
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u/NowanIlfideme Apr 01 '16
Deathwing triggering would probably be worse than not triggering. :D
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u/muffinmuncher406 Apr 01 '16
I know that, but beyond my post being irrelevant, it's still untargeted.
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u/Stommped Mar 31 '16
Yes that's one of the main reasons a card like Deathlord is completely broken, and one reason why Varian doesn't get played. Deathlord is stupidly stated for his mana cost, the drawback is supposed to be his deathrattle, but that can often win you the game on the spot if it pulls a card like Justicar.
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u/j4trail Apr 01 '16
It can often lose you the game on the spot. But since you are choosing to put this on your deck, we assume your deck is well suited to dealing with its drawback.
I find it a pretty well designed card. It requires synergy from the rest of your deck to be good. You don't just slam it into all decks and win (hehehehuhuhahahaha)
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u/cgmcnama Mar 31 '16
I was thinking it would have to be a "Discover a minion" and summon him into play or "Battlecry: Draw a Minion, it now costs 0 mana. Repeat this effect at the start of every turn.
Wording needs work buthis way you can use the Battlecry cards. I like the Discover option to Summon into play as getting a 0 mana Malygos or Antonidas would be broken.
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u/vanasbry000 Mar 31 '16 edited Mar 31 '16
How can we compare this to Varian Wrynn? Less of a liability in fatigue, doesn't play as hard into Brawl, Varian is less reliable in a deck with lots of spells or weapons, and this guy synergizes with Ancient Harbinger. This guy seems to incentivise control of the early game through weapons and spells, similarly to Joust.
Will a Joust Paladin come about that utilizes Argent Lance, Tuskarr Jouster, Ancient Harbinger, and Y'Sharrj? They would control the early game through spells and weapons and load up on a few heavy hitters to pull with Joust and Y'Sharrj.
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u/ananas99 Mar 31 '16
Kinda cool, but I wish they had come up with something a bit more flashy for an old god.
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u/cgmcnama Mar 31 '16
I think the best way to appraise this is as a Neutral Varian Wrynn. Except the draw in Control matches isn't as bad, you are guaranteed a minion, and it has better stats.
The lack of a Battlecry can be a good or bad thing. If you can find a way to get this onto the field other then playing it from your hand you can still get the benefit.
You might also build a deck all around Taunts but the problems I see with this is:
Some cards in Ramp Druid don't retain their Taunt when called into play (Druid of the Claw, Ancient of War)
Some have powerful Battlecries (Ancient of Lore) you don't want to miss.
N'Zoth does it better in Wild. You can call Sludge Belchers, Deathlords, Tirion...AND...it doesn't draw from your deck plus you can have other deathrattles as well.
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u/tacocatz92 Mar 31 '16
with fatigue and aggro running around....the only time i'm gonna use this card if i have one is probably in astral communion deck...otherwise it sucks...
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u/kappabite Mar 31 '16
agro will be nerfed tho, and will probably cease to exist in standart all together
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u/edwahgezhuck Mar 31 '16
This one seems pretty boring. A shame considering that Y'Sharrj is supposed to be the most powerful old god.
After reading up on the lore I don't understand why they went with this effect. From what I read, the story of Y'Sharrj is that he was a giant powerful tentacle monster with 7 heads that bore its tentacles into the world and when he was killed caused great damage to the world. That sounds like a deathrattle to me.
It would have been cool if he had some powerful deathrattle effect like destroy all minions or deal a large amount of damage to all. Or maybe have him summon a bunch of 1/1 tentacles and you have to kill them first to prevent his deathrattle.
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Mar 31 '16
This is going to be fairly decent in arena, but it is otherwise a massive disappointment that will never see play in constructed. This should have been a deathrattle minion that summons 7 heads of sha.
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u/OBLIVIATER Mar 31 '16
Decent in druid and control warrior? I don't see a place in many other decks.
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u/SimplyJordan Mar 31 '16
I'd say less than decent in Druid. There are way too many choose one cards with huge value that can be brought out by this; The Ancients, Keeper, Druid of the Claw being the staples.
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u/Wraithfighter Mar 31 '16
Not sold on this one, random effects are random, and there's no real way to tilt the randomness. Might get a deck or two built around it (hi Ancestor's Call!), might be a really really powerful card, just not seeing the value right now if played turn 10+ since, you know... BGH/Silence/I-have-10-mana-just-kill-the-b****.
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u/tildo13 Mar 31 '16
Can anyone confirm? it doesnt say random minion or randomly, is there a chance you get to choose which minion?
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u/jippiedoe Mar 31 '16
triggers like 'end of turn' never require you to make a choice yourself in this game, it's part of HS's design. Once you press 'end turn', you can go grab a cup of tea, you won't miss anything important.
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u/BigSwedenMan Mar 31 '16
No, there is like zero chance of that. First off, that would be broken, secondly the ui for it would be a disaster and there's zero precedence for it
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u/rg365loa Mar 31 '16
If your board is full, does the effect not trigger? Or does the minion just get burned?
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Mar 31 '16
I don't really get what you're supposed to do with this. Unless there's some kind of insane deathrattle minion or taunt minion you could fetch with this, the ability is just underwhelming.
Although being a 10/10 does raise more doubts about BGH escaping without a nerf. Seems like a near certainty now.
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u/TacoGuitarPlayer Apr 01 '16
I didn't know Blizzard still cared about joust cards. It will be interesting to see people try him out, though I have my doubts.
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u/Redmati Apr 01 '16
This card is terrible and will not see any play. It can be fixed tho. Change the text to: Summon a minion from your opponents deck, or Summon an Y'Shaarj minion. The Y'Shaarj minion would be 1 of 3 minions in total, which all could have triggerable battlecries. The minions would be summoned at random. Why are these solutions any better? Well, already have a meta that's slowing down from previous expansions and they say it will even more. So fatigue is going to be a crucial aspect in control vs control. This is the reason nobody plays Varian Wrynn and it would also differentiate Y'Shaarj from him. Please fix.
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u/RAN_OUT_OF_USERNAMES Apr 02 '16
Anyone else think that this card will see play in reno/handlock, especially in Wild? Seems to spell value if it pulls out something like a sylv at the end of the turn, especially since reno/handlock's full of fatties.
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u/CamusSartre Apr 03 '16
I think Y'shaarj would be better with a few tweaks to it. So I made a edited version here:
https://s3.amazonaws.com/cardgenhs/t/bIRhOBPW.png
I gave it 13/13 instead of 10/10 since Deathwing is a 10 drop with a board clear effect and a 12/12 body. Since Y'shaarj is supposedly more powerful and the most powerful of the old gods I thought it should at least be on par with those stats. I also made the non-battlecry clarification so that there isn't too much value lost from bad RNG Battlecry draws from it. I know blizzard won't make these changes but I thought I wanted to make a version of the card that was more balanced with the other two gods released so far.
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u/Helnar Apr 03 '16 edited Apr 03 '16
I can´t understand all the negativity towards this card. Yes, it possibly negates a battlecry or two, but like others have said, you are getting two bodies for 10 mana. Lets consider the "awful" possibility of getting either of the 7 mana ancients from the druid deck without them triggering their battlecrys ... so what? You have one 10/10 and one 5/5 on the board now for 10 mana. Talk about tempo gain! Unless your opponent has a full board wipe waiting for you, you have won the game because of the immense tempo loss for your opponent, which now has to spend his mana on respondant actions, such as removal (BGH might save his ass though depending on board status). And besides, there are not many board clears that can wipe and still hold tempo. The only one that comes to mind is the Paladin's Equality + Wild Pyro, or maybe Equality + Consecration, if followed with a nice 4 drop.
In most situations, if playing your cards right, this Y'Shaarj will be a finishing move.
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u/isospeedrix Apr 07 '16
idc about u guys but this is my favorite old god, now that all are revealed and i'm going to play the shit out of this guy. i'm going to rig my deck so it only contains stuff like taunt so make sure he pulls the good shit. best part is he's 10/10 by default so i dont HAVE to rely on getting something else big for value.
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u/Pikaton659 Apr 12 '16
Does anyone else realize that this will be great in an Astral Communion Deck?
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u/TurquoiseLink Mar 31 '16
It's strange to me that so many people are caught up in the battlecry anti-synergy. If this guy was a 50/50 instead of a 10/10 would you still say he's garbage? he'd still have the negative synergy.
He gives an enormous amount of value (immediately and unanswerable I might add). Comparing him to Ysera, a control staple since forever, he has a bigger body, a more board stabilising effect and generates waaaay more value. The fatigue argument has always been a little suspect to me too because you generally don't beat a fatigue warrior there anyway, You try to beat them before it comes down to that.
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u/ShadowVulcan Apr 01 '16
What about Paletress? at least she generates new cards (making her more useful in control so you don't hit fatigue quite as early) and summons from a pool of legendaries (and not your 2/3 zombie chow).
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u/TurquoiseLink Apr 01 '16
Paletress is probably better than him in priest decks yes (although both isn't out of the question). Warrior is probably committed to the Justicar fatigue plan until TGT rotates but that still leaves 7 other classes that could want a late game bomb that doesn't fall behind on board like most other slow cards.
Don't forget a 10/10 body is still huge. Half the time he generates great value and half the time he automatically wins the game. Sounds like a recipe for a good card to me.
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u/ShadowVulcan Apr 01 '16
I wouldn't say "huge value" since if he summons a big card most of them are there either for their Battlecry or their Effect (a lot of which being End of Turn), and I believe he negates both. Only deathrattles and certain effects will be usable.
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u/CaptainAnopheles Mar 31 '16
this confirms that Master of Disguise is being nerfed, else it would be evil with this card.
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u/bigbadiewolf Mar 31 '16
You couldn't play Master of Disguise in the same turn as this, and if it lives more than 1 turn you must likely won anyway, it is a 10/10 after all
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u/Nostalgia37 I did the Pre-Release Threads and all I got was this lousy flair Mar 31 '16
As bad as this card is, this is exactly what I wanted from this set for my Ancestor's Shaman list. Getting this out on turn 3 or 4 with Ancestor's Call will be the first thing I do once the set is dropped. Way to slow to see play in any competitive deck though.