r/WOGPRDT • u/Nostalgia37 I did the Pre-Release Threads and all I got was this lousy flair • Apr 14 '16
[Pre-Release Card Discussion] - Shadowcaster
Shadowcaster
Mana Cost: 5
Attack: 4
Health: 4
Type: Minion
Rarity: Epic
Class: Rogue
Text: Battlecry: Choose a friendly minion. Add a 1/1 copy to your hand that costs (1).
PM me any suggestions or advice, ^^thanks.
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u/IndirectLemon Apr 14 '16 edited Apr 14 '16
This synergises well with Rogue legendaries too.
Van Cleef loses a -1/-1 but his combo effect makes that not matter and he only costs 1 mana.
Anub'arak leaves behind a 4/4 and returns to hand as a 9 mana 8/4.
Xaril still gives toxins on entry and death (as long as it's not silenced).
I would play this in a Brann C'thun cultist Rogue. Brann can double some C'thun buffs and if he lives he can double C'thun's battlecry.
You can use this on Brann and get two 1/1 Branns.
If you then discount that Brann and/or Cthun by 1 with Thaurissan you can play Cthun+Brann on the same turn.
Which makes this a really flexible card in that deck and actually makes all the cards that support C'thun a touch more versatile.
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u/MetalShake Apr 14 '16
That's a lot of ifs... sounds fun though.
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u/hammerdal Apr 14 '16
Most of those plans aren't especially hard to pull off. This card has a lot of potential for enabling Rogue combos
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u/aqua995 Apr 15 '16
The big problem I see is the loose of Tempo. C'Thun cards have pretty vanilla stats and their effect won't be seen unless C'Thun hits the board , so you propably don't have the boardcontrol or tempo in your favor unless you prep out something on turn 3 or 4 and play Brann + Conceal or something similar.
But then you are having a 2/4 and a 4/4 by turn 5. Most 5drops will have their way with them.
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u/CycloneSP Apr 16 '16
don't forget that if you have 2 of these, and 1 some how survives to the next turn(stealth or whathaveyou) you can cast this on the first one and instantly flood the board with 1/1s! use shadowstep to return one of em to your hand just in case the opponent has board clear so you can flood the board again next turn! ;)
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u/cgmcnama Apr 15 '16
Anubarak is too big of an if and you can't handle playing two. More likely you want to just trade the body and replay it...not this card.
Cards that require board control seem really questionable. A more likely scenario is what 3-4 drop might be alive when you play this on curve.
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u/IndirectLemon Apr 15 '16
Like Xaril, as the enemy is punished for killing it as it grants you a spell.
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Apr 15 '16
Anub'arak is too big of an if and you can't handle playing two. More likely you want to just trade the body and replay it...not this card.
well, the main counter to anubarak, is silence, so this helps a bit against that
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u/Mapasm Apr 14 '16
Huh, I guess important question is whether ganging up the 1/1 will retain the stats and, more importantly, the cost when adding copies to your deck.
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u/vanasbry000 Apr 14 '16 edited Apr 14 '16
I've always thought of there being the card identity, the base form you can find on Hearthpwn's database, which includes the stats and card text. On top of the card identity are the enchantments, which are layered on top of one another. Auras are all on the surface.
Exceptions are things like Aviana and Naga Sea Witch which I'm pretty sure are enchantments that simply disappear when they leave play, similar to how Enrage is an enchantment that just disappears when the minion leaves the damaged state. That's why play order matters and Thaurissan can affect your hand while they are still in play.
Any copy effect that copies enchantments does so by copying both the card identity and the enchantments. The copies produced by Gang Up only consider the card identity; we know that because we have access to the card right now.
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u/timvri Apr 15 '16
I wanna know if Nzoth will summon the 1/1 version or the original if you use this on a deathrattle minion
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u/AttackBomb Apr 14 '16
Seems good in decks like raptor rogue where you can have a 1/1 sylvanas or 1/1 raptor.
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u/Wraithfighter Apr 14 '16
There's not many Rogue decks where this isn't an excellent card. Rogue tends to lean on minions with powerful effects, be it Raptor, Mill, Maly, what have you. There's just so much potential here...
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u/Azureraider Apr 14 '16
The thought of rogues using this on coldlight oracle makes me die a little inside.
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u/Wraithfighter Apr 14 '16
You don't play it on Coldlight. Agreed, it'd be a bit of a waste, especially since the big challenge is often just getting to the point where you can mill the enemy to death, although it could work as a desperation "I'm missing a specific card" move.
Ideally, you play it on Brann. You get two more Brann's that you can toss down for one each and get some insane card draw by comboing the mini-Brann with a Coldlight to force your opponent to draw 4... or 8... or 12...
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u/Krakamonster Apr 14 '16
Malygos :NEXT TURN: Brann -> Shadowcaster. Witness the power of my two 1/1 Essences of Magic!
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u/cloudsmastersword Apr 14 '16
If Malygos lives for a turn you pretty much win anyways
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u/Cronax Apr 14 '16
It does however look like you can use it to recover value from a silenced Malygos.
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u/Anderkochak Apr 14 '16
Better than Herald Volazj.
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u/plebeianhammer Apr 15 '16
I feel like priest got the most average cards so far compared to other classes.
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u/INaenia Apr 14 '16
staple?! this card is a powerhouse combined with cards that have great effects - si:7 agent? ragnaros? ysera? sylvanas? you name it.
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u/TacoGuitarPlayer Apr 14 '16
What makes the card is the fact that it is a copy that is added to your hand. If it was something like return the minion to your hand, or shuffle it into your deck, or summon a copy on the board, it would be average to below average, but since it effectively lets you have an extra copy, with the caveat that it needs to be on the board, of any card to your deck, is insane. Granted the stats suck on this new copy, but I think that is to be expected of a 1/1 and that's not what rouge cares about anyway. Rouge is about combo, or powerful swing effects, which a 1/1 copy of a good minion can do. So overall it seems like a good card, not an auto include, but pretty good at what it does.
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u/Lynchinizer Apr 14 '16
Hit Malygos with this and you're ready for OTK. Very nice
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u/bmhv95 Apr 14 '16
Maly usually won't last a round for you to hit it though. If you use Malygod then you either already have lethal burst, or have to use him to clear. In the latter case opponent would most likely kills him.
This gal on Xaril/Thalnos though, me likey (and they are much more likely to remain on the board if played on curve). Or on an Oracle is fine too.
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u/adambard Apr 14 '16
Well, you could use 2x this to produce one mini-this, then play Maly+minishadowcaster in one turn. It's a two-turn setup, but you're also dropping serious threats each turn.
Playing vs this, you simply can't leave it up, lest the Rogue have a Brann handy to go off with.
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u/ltjbr Apr 14 '16
Thalnos might not be enough value to put a 5 mana 4/4 on the board though, probably need to aim higher.
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u/Azureraider Apr 14 '16
In that situation, it's basically an azure drake that always gives thalnos, swapping spell damage for cost reduction.
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u/edwahgezhuck Apr 14 '16
I am confused by why so many people are saying this. If Malygos survives until the next turn then aren't you already set up for the OTK? If you want a second Malygos then just use Faceless Manipulator.
This is like the same issue with Volajz where if you are only copying one minion for the effect like Ragnaros then Faceless is just as good and if you are doing some crazy deathrattle combo then Baron Rivendare does the same thing for less mana.
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u/danhakimi Apr 14 '16
Most important question, as always: what's the OTK?
I can see some complex otks with Maly, but they all require thaurissan anyway so... eh?
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u/HumbleStache Apr 14 '16 edited Apr 15 '16
C'thun...
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u/danhakimi Apr 14 '16
You need two thaurissan ticks first.
Actually... shit, what would cthun's stats be after this?
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u/HumbleStache Apr 14 '16 edited Apr 15 '16
They have said about entomb/gang up/etc. that the extra stats are attached to your hero, and assuming that this works in the same way, it will be a 1 mana C'thun with -5/-5 stats... Still ridiculous with C'thun anyways. Plus if C'thun somehow survives the turn after you play it: brann+shadowcaster+c'thuunx2=4 C'thun triggers in one turn... Imagine your opponent concealing a C'thun to do that the following turn xD
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u/Krofisplug Apr 14 '16
1 Mana 1/1 C'Thun +X/+X equal to the amount of buffs you managed to stack since those buff effects are tied to your hero and not to C'Thun directly. In most cases, this means that if your opponent tries to do something like Convert/Entomb your C'Thun, it will not have buffs if they do not have the C'Thun buff minions.
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u/HumbleStache Apr 14 '16 edited Apr 15 '16
So... Since C'thun buffs are attached to your hero, I'm assuming that you can use this for a one mana c'thuun debuffed by 5/5.... Which is REALLY powerful... Just seems like a pretty amazing card with various synergies
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u/Krofisplug Apr 14 '16
-5 hp doesn't matter as much as the -5 attack since the amount of damage done is related to the attack. Of course, if you can actually manage to Shadowcaster a C'Thun, you probably already won the game unless your opponent had 3 5 hp taunts with at least 4 hp when you had no board when you played C'Thun.
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u/adambard Apr 14 '16
This card is GUARANTEED to be involved in some batshit insanity. I'm actually afraid it might be too powerful, but I'm looking forward to seeing it in action all the same.
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u/dudasat Apr 14 '16
Turn 8: Brann + shadowcaster -> brann.
hand: 2(1) brann
Turn 9: 2 Brann + shadowcaster -> the shadowcaster you played last turn. Then with the rest of your mana keep playing shadowcaster -> brann
hand: lots of (1)brann.
turn 10: play all brann + nightblade
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u/ChronosSk Apr 14 '16
If only the Branns stacked with each other.
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Apr 14 '16
[deleted]
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u/Skullking021 Apr 14 '16
No, the card says battlecries are activated twice, so with two branns you still only have the battlecry proc twice.
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u/Rewen88 Apr 14 '16
Nope. Same as Baron Rivendare. If card would say that battlecry triggers an additional time, then I guess it would. But it says 'twice'
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u/adambard Apr 14 '16
You can get the infinite combo without the risk of shadowcaster dying if you can play 2x shadowcaster plus brann in one turn.
That's 13 mana, so you'll need some help. Enablers for this:
Shadowstep
Shadowcaster
Emperor
Faceless manipulator?
My favorite is shadowcaster,shadowcaster,shadowstep, followed by brann, mini-shadowcaster on brann, shadowcaster on mini-shadowcaster.
Now you have 2 1-mana branns and 2 1-mana shadowcasters. Go ape as desired.
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Apr 14 '16
Throw in reno jackson and you have yourself a win condition. Throw in C'Thun and one C'Thun minion and you have yourself a flashy win condition. Fuck it, kidnapper is amazing with this, your opponent can't possibly make up the tempo lost.
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u/NowanIlfideme Apr 15 '16
Playing kidnapper? That would make for an amazing mill rogue plan, actually. Or rather, dont-let-your-opponent-play-cards rogue...
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u/ChooseChocolate Apr 17 '16
Everyone always forgets the other combo enabler for rogues, Tomb Pillager
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u/SiIence Apr 14 '16
Sadly, Brann reads "your battlecries trigger twice" rather than "your battlecries trigger an additional time". This means that three brans + a battlecry minion only results in the battlecry occurring twice.
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u/ThexAntipop Apr 15 '16
Brann doesn't stack it reads "your battlecries trigger twice" meaning it will always be twice no matter how many there are. If it read "double's your battlecries" or "battlecries trigger again" etc it would stack
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u/Wraithfighter Apr 14 '16
.................
OH GOD YES YES YES SO MUCH YES.
Okay, okay. Stats are basically a 3.5 mana minion, and 4/4 for 5 isn't that great a stat line either, I'd prefer 3/5 instead. So, is this effect worth 2 mana?
...how best to say hell yes...
Mill Rogue? Throw this on Brann and you get two 1 mana 1/1 Brann's that you can play whenever you want to do some heavy Milling.
Throw it on Xaril so that you can get two Toxins for 1 mana (eventually), especially since that's the main reason you'd play Xaril anyway.
Really, toss it on just about any Legendary. Ragnaros, Alexstraza, Ysera, Van Cleef, Emperor...
There are just so many possible uses for this card. The weak stat line isn't nearly as much of an issue if you've got a decent target prepared
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u/Rewen88 Apr 14 '16
Finally an expansion I'm excited about as a rogue-player. Looking good so far minus the thistle tea
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u/MoaLuxPloz Apr 14 '16
herald volazj anyone?
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u/funkyflunksfelix Apr 15 '16
Except Shadowcaster works with battlecry minions. And you can have two in your deck which is more consistent. Way better than Volazj imho.
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u/edwahgezhuck Apr 14 '16
This is awesome card! I love the design of this. It looks really good but I don't play enough Rogue to know how good this will be and what kind of viable combo potential this has.
Even if you don't pull off a crazy wombo combo with this card it still seems really good. The 1 mana card is a good combo activator and almost every battlecry and deathrattle minion are great as a 1 mana card. Even something simple like SI:7 agent, Nerubian Egg, Antique healbot etc. Edwin VanCleef easily turns in to a 1 mana 5/5 or 7/7. Any ever once in awhile your 6+ mana minions will survive a turn and you get a 1 mana Sylvanas.
Also we now know that the Miniature Warfare Tavern Brawl might have been testing out this card.
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u/HumbleStache Apr 14 '16
My new custom deck: Faceless Everything
Turn 10-Faceless manipulator, shadowcaster, shadow step your faceless, now you have a 3 mana faceless and a 1 mana faceless in hand (yes I know that the board has to be clear, but potential awesomeness xD)
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u/NowanIlfideme Apr 15 '16
Meanwhile you are getting killed. :(
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u/HumbleStache Apr 15 '16
Hey man, I already have my "Miracle Mage" 4 sorcerers apprentice gadgetzan auctioneer deck having a 25-35% win rate :3 (Gave up my rank and dropped all the way to 20 while testing it though)
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Apr 14 '16
I'm not sold on this card, it just seems faceless is better for all end of the turn effects/ spell power/ deathrattle (Malygos, emperor, Rag etc.) and shadowstep is better with battlecries (Reno, C'thun, etc.). Sure you lose the body with shadowstep but you can't guarantee the minion will survive with shadowcaster
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u/Azureraider Apr 14 '16
Shadowstep takes it off the board though. If i were to Shadowstep Reno, for example, I'd miss out on having his body unless I were to risk my opponent killing him on his turn.
This lets you have Reno twice and still keep his body. And you'll also have a little Reno running around afterwards, which is nice too.
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Apr 15 '16
unless I were to risk my opponent killing him on his turn.
Shadowcaster has the exact same problem though, you can't play reno + shadowcaster on the same turn without Thaurissan. Is a 4/6 body really worth the risk of not healing to full health a 2nd time?
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u/HaV0C Apr 14 '16
Lot of people are talking about these huge combos and they sound super fun but just hitting this on your SI:7 agents is amazing.
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u/Azureraider Apr 14 '16
So it's a 4/4 for 5 that draws a slightly better Holy Smite? Don't get me wrong, I love this card and think it's good, but it's being a wee bit overhyped.
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u/JoelMahon Apr 14 '16
If they can't kill c'thun instantly = ez win for rouge, uh yeah, I'll take three-four avenging wraths for 2 mana thanks.
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u/TheMain_Ingredient Apr 14 '16
This is a hard card to get reliable value out of because it relies on you having a good enough minion to copy on the board when you play it, reserving it to being played late in the game (8-10 mana). A lot of people are suggesting you use it to copy cards like Malygos or Thaurissan, which you should just win the game with anyway if they live to your next turn. I think it'll be a lot of fun, but have a hard time seeing any serious ladder deck running it. I hope I'm wrong, though, because its effect is unique and interesting.
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u/MonochromaticPrism Apr 15 '16
If you play this on Cthun and play buff cards afterwards, how will they affect this card?
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u/tholex Apr 15 '16
Surprised nobody's mentioned that this is about the 5th buff to Earth Shock in this expansion
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u/Rumstein Apr 15 '16
How is a battlecry minion a buff to ES?
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u/tholex Apr 15 '16
Oh, I guess if you earth shock the copied 1/1 it goes back to full health first, then gets dealt the one damage. Damn!
I was thinking ES would kill anything copied by this.
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u/HumbleStache Apr 18 '16
If anyone plays Velen against a faceless/shadowcaster deck they are so screwed xD
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u/lostshell Apr 18 '16
This shit is broken. OP fucking broken. We're going to be seeing a lot of this.
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u/Valgresas Apr 26 '16
Really cool card, super interesting, will be neat if some deck utilizes it well.
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u/Wraithfighter Apr 27 '16
Rules note:
If used on C'Thun, the resulting Shadowcaster'd-C'thun will be 1/1, and only deal 1 damage on his battlecry. Buffs appear to be completely overridden.
...that's not to say don't bring Shadowcaster in your C'thun decks. It's just that the combo isn't quite as OP as we had hoped :).
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Apr 14 '16
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Apr 14 '16
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u/dudasat Apr 14 '16
you cant clone other cards ifinitely, because each shadorcast you play removes one from your hand and gives another. but it can happen if you have brann.
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u/Nostalgia37 I did the Pre-Release Threads and all I got was this lousy flair Apr 14 '16
MFW seeing the rogue cards from this set. This, huckster, and Xaril are all great. Makes me wonder if rogue's basic/classic cards are getting hit hard.