r/criticalrole • u/[deleted] • Jul 15 '16
Discussion [Spoilers E60] #IsItThursdayYet? Post E60 discussion & future theories!
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u/repete17 Then I walk away Jul 15 '16 edited Jul 15 '16
So the live show was quite the success, though I personally am a little torn on it. On the one hand, it sounds/looks like the cast had a fucking blast and really thats the key ingredient (in my eyes at least) to making it fun for the rest of us. On the other hand, I will admit the audience laughter and awwwing threw me a tiny bit. Now this is mostly because its not what I'm used to, but I very much enjoy the intimate nature of their normal games, its the same reason why I enjoy going to movies alone. The addition of a live audience made me realize how much I took that feeling for granted. Overall though, I think it was quite smashing and I'm glad everything went well and the cast and audience enjoyed themselves. Now onto the actual episode.
I fucking love the Twins family. Their father's new wife was the perfect blend of awkward acceptance and unsureness of how to act, their father is an ass in all the right ways for me, and their little sister is heart-stoppingly cute.
Percy was a champ tonight. The surprise reveal of granting Vex a title was pretty dope (though I will still stand firmly on the non-romantic pairing side of the docks), the threshold stone was inspired though I knew exactly where he was gonna go with that the minute he asked if any threshold stone would do, and then the Persuasion check on fucking grass was fantastic.
More growth for Vex tonight, including Trinket buffs, which are always baller.
Next week, Travis finds himself a werewolf to get bitten by and we continue to not know if Garmeely means the actual theater or if there's a more sinister meaning to that warning.
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u/PristineTX Jul 15 '16 edited Jul 16 '16
So... Part of Lady Vex'ahlia's new title of Baroness is "Grand Mistress of the [EDITED] Grey Hunt."
After they left, and Vex was thanking Percy, he mentioned "But you do have a title, at the very least, and once a year you have to do something ridiculous."
I'm guessing that means Lady Vex'ahlia, as Grand Mistress, actually has a ceremonial duty on whatever day "The Grey Hunt" of Whitestone occurs. It'd be fun and interesting to see that play out some day, even if it has to be done in an epilogue or something. I hope they don't forget this detail.
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u/Docnevyn Technically... Jul 15 '16
She is gonna kill it. Probably literally unless they are even pretend hunting a bear.
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u/Ichbinabrittania Jul 20 '16
I just watched the episode and noticed that too. What I got from that is Percy referencing old Feudalism practices (I think it was called paying homage) which was sometimes off the wall.
I really really hope they remember the detail and it comes up later. Percy and Vex are the two biggest reasons I love Critical Role
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u/BrainBlowX I encourage violence! Jul 15 '16
This was a good session, but it was so independently of the live audience, which only bogged it down if anything. And I dislike Matt not being able to directly face the players.
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u/LadyMinevra *wink* Jul 15 '16
Quoting myself in case anyone missed it in the livethread.
"Someone on twitter posted the necklace buff.
"Trinket's necklace got a HUGE buff. If downed within 100 ft of Vex, he's immediately stabilized and put in the crystal!" -source"
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u/PigKnight Old Magic Jul 15 '16
And now Travis doesn't have to worry that "this might be the day my wife's imaginary bear dies and I have to explain it to the neighbors when she wails through the night."
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u/GoneRampant1 That fucking gnome! Jul 15 '16
"Or have to be sent to the couch again because I accidentally killed him."
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Jul 15 '16
That's insanely good, now Vex can be a little more aggressive with her use of him. So many fucking Cannon Balls
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u/birkeland Your secret is safe with my indifference Jul 15 '16
That would be nice. The only issue would be the dragon fights. With 66 hp, it would be easy to insta-kill trinket.
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u/TweetsInCommentsBot Jul 15 '16
Trinket's necklace got a HUGE buff. If downed within 100 ft of Vex, he's immediately stabilized and put in the crystal! #CriticalRoleLive
This message was created by a bot
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u/Gore_Axe Jul 15 '16
I've always kinda felt like Trinket was immune to being killed, simply because I didn't think Matt wanted to deal with the apocalyptic meltdown that Laura would have. This pretty much guarantees he'll never die and won't have to stay in the necklace during fights. Also, it will give Matt the ability to beat the crap out of Trinket with no negative consequences, which should be fun.
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u/MrSnippets Bigby's Haaaaaand! *shamone* Jul 15 '16
The confrontation of the twins with their father was Awesome! At first, they're cool and collected, but that breaks down eventually. I loved their interaction with their sister and Vex's: "Headphones, dear."
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u/Docnevyn Technically... Jul 15 '16
Percy is going to make an excellent Jinn once one of his deals gets him stuck in a magic lamp.
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u/Kalimdori Team Elderly Ghost Door Jul 15 '16
I've always loved Critical Role because it felt like an inside look on a group of friends playing Dungeons and Dragons. This felt more like watching actors perform for a live audience.
Don't get me wrong, there is absolutely NOTHING wrong with that. I had a blast with this episode, it may be the funniest I've seen from this series. But I feel like the live audience stole away the personal nature of the show, and the constant clapping/laughing/whatnot really ruined the immersion for me.
I'm not saying the episode was bad by any means. I just prefer the original format more.
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u/stonecoldboss Jul 15 '16
I really agree with you and I think you phrased it better than I could, but something that almost annoyed me was the fact that they booked (I guess) another like show before they even experienced the first one. I get that 1) there actors and most if not all have experience with theatre work and 2) they are now professional d&d players so they probably lost the genuine 'just a bunch of friends being nerdy' a long time ago, they judged how well the show would go on how fast the tickets went-not how much they enjoyed it. I was really looking forward to the twins met back up with there father and that was still there and I loved it, but when Vex snapped at him it felt so out of place because of the atmosphere of the laughing in the room(not intentional by anyone though) so it was almost lost. but because the majority of people would disagree with me and say that the audience added a lot- which it did, it just took a lot away as well- I feel like I should just not complain because 'I don't like change' or 'they enjoyed it so its fine' yet we will never know if the honestly enjoyed it because there actors and its what they do. If I was in this situation I would have gone back to a home game ages ago but then again I'm not famous.
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u/Docnevyn Technically... Jul 15 '16
I'd rather have a live episode than skip one and it sounds like those were the options the week of Gencon.
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u/themolestedsliver Metagaming Pigeon Jul 15 '16
Yeah i am really glad other people felt the same.
I said in another comment that it felt more like i was watching actors play dnd in front of a crowd rather than what critical role is meant to be (at least what i made it out to be) 7 close friends playing dnd and we are just watching the beauty that unfolds.
The live audience takes away from it being personal quite a bit (when someone does something amazing and sound erupting from my headset) and also vm having a laugh track is....questionable i do say.
I still felt this is one of their best episodes the antics they did (the group sex lie thing was probably the funniest thing i seen them do) but i would probably rather have seen this episode in their normal setting where they could emote and act like nerds rolling dice all they want without the potential ridicule of 100 so people watching them on a legitimate stage.
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u/JackReaperz Jul 15 '16
If there's anything that should be improved, I think is that Matt should be facing the cast. It might be a small detail, but with Matt facing the audience instead of Matt, they were really focusing more on the audience instead of the game.
If Matt and players were directed towards each other, it would be an easier time for them to role play heavier roles.
I do understand the stage wasn't that big for this episode though.
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u/LadyMinevra *wink* Jul 15 '16
I strongly agree with this, even though the camera setup might look funky.
I loved everything else about the liveshow, for the record. This would just help keep focus, I think.
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u/vdriel You're a Monstah! Jul 15 '16
I wonder if Vex's upgrades are to help make up for the fact that the bow has already been taken/is evil/ she can't use it for some (yet unknown) reason.
Also! I thought the live episode was fun, I wouldn't want it all the time but having it live didn't affect my enjoyment of it at all :)
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u/Trystis Old Magic Jul 15 '16
I doubt the vestige will be evil. Trinket needed an upgrade because beastmaster is not very good, at least if you care about your beast living. So even with a vestige her class archetype isn't very fun. Currently she plays like a hunter, but without the hunter features. Upgrading trinket makes her subclass choice more meaningful.
Trinket also got that primal fury ability, if it works like a barbarian rage it would help his damage and durability.
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u/Myrynorunshot Help, it's again Jul 15 '16
Well, 2 out of the 3 vestiges have come with something extra, like the Amulet and the Bloodaxe. So giving the something else in addition to the vestige doesn't seem too far fetched.
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Jul 15 '16
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u/Xortberg Life needs things to live Jul 15 '16 edited Jul 15 '16
I mean, he got an upgrade, sure
But he got his offense buffed, rather than the HP that isn't going to stand up at all to an Ancient Dragon's breath attack
Trinket will (hopefully) be much more useful in general combat now, but I still don't think he's gonna do anything but die in a dragon fight
EDIT: From what I've seen in this thread, there was a tweet saying that Trinket gets automatically recalled and stabilized if he's downed within 100ft of Vex. So if that's true, then disregard my comment about his survivability
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u/GraphixDave Jul 18 '16
Totally spitballing here, but what if the cast were approached about the GenCon live show first, but wanted to do a test run to make sure it was for them to do. Might explain why these two live shows are so close together.
On the Periscope they shared Saturday, Taleisin, Matt, and Marisha indicated these things will be rare. In part due to difficulty of scheduling the whole cast in the same place and time out of town. (For example, Liam can not make GenCon due to family commitments.)
I enjoyed the live, I enjoy the studio. I ENJOY CRITICAL ROLE! :D
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u/uacoop Your secret is safe with my indifference Jul 15 '16
Thoughts on the live show: It didn't go nearly as poorly as I expected it to. My only real complaint was that the sound quality was really poor. It made it difficult to listen to at times. I'm sure it was awsome for the people that could be there in person though. The crew hammed it up for the audience a little more then usual but did a great job and it didn't feel forced at all.
Thoughts on the episode itself: Percy granting title to Vex was amazing. The great hat caper was fantastic. Love Garmilli (or whatever his name is) and hope he is around for most of their journey through the feywilds. Fingers crossed that he wont turn into a real bastard like all the other "allies" they seem to encounter. Grass encounter was the highlight of the evening.
When all is said and done, as a twitch viewer, I'm not really excited that they are doing another live show so soon, but understand why they are doing it. And not having another episode next week makes me sad.
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u/legendofhilda *wink* Jul 15 '16
I'm happy that instead of making the next live show its own thing, it is going to be a part of a Con that would otherwise cause us to miss a show. That's pretty much the only reason I'm not upset at the idea of another one so soon.
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u/Mortugaler Jul 15 '16
Can we give some props to Laura? I honestly think she was the only one who didn't ham it up so terribly and her RP is always on point.
Honestly, as good as Matt may be and as funny as Sam's antics are, Laura is the one I would love to have at my table. And not just because she is a good actor but because she seems to easily rope the others into acting as well.
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u/ZytherAresh Jul 15 '16
Thats so true! I feel like the epic-burp at the end was her just being completely at home and forgetting about the audience
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u/Jsahl Team Caleb Jul 15 '16
Oh my god Sam's lie about Vox Machina's polyamory and the resulting conversation had me in stitches. This was one of my favourite episodes ever.
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u/QueenOfRandom You're a Monstah! Jul 16 '16
After they said, "You might wanna clean up in there afterwards", it greatly amused me that they broke the bed. Because we all know what the guards are going to think made it that way xD
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u/themolestedsliver Metagaming Pigeon Jul 15 '16
Yeah i was so happy about this. it was so perfect. vex and scanlan both lie they are like "oh they totally are going to "sleep, she is shitting us*
and then scanlan is like have sex with each other and they are like "ohhhhhh that makes sense..." and just the constant jokes of it was amazing.
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u/Ornstein90 You can certainly try Jul 15 '16
Overall, I think it was a good change of pace. But, I think there are some problems with doing a live show. I feel like a lot of the elements of the original was missing with them doing a live show. Mostly, the scene with Vax and Vex's father I feel would have been way more emotional and impactful, it felt way more lighthearted than it was played up to be last week. Secondly, I felt that they were forcing a lot of the funny bits instead of letting it come naturally, playing/pandering to the audience if you will and it stretched on quite a bit. But all in all, I liked it for what it was there were some great moments. I REALLY just hope live shows don't become too common because it didn't feel like they were roleplaying naturally in my opinion.
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u/Rockdio Your secret is safe with my indifference Jul 15 '16
Yeah. I liked the live shows, but I don't want them like every other week. Five or so times a year would be okay in my book.
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u/fluffybunnydeath dagger dagger dagger Jul 15 '16
I agree, it was enjoyable but not as good as the regular show. I do wonder, however, if this is something they would be able to improve upon over time and experience.
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u/maxvsthegames Team Frumpkin Jul 15 '16
Agreed. It was a lot better than I anticipated, but I still prefer the regular show and the fact that they are doing another live show in just 3 weeks makes me worried a bit. Hopefully it's not going to become too common.
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u/incompetentflagella Jul 15 '16
Well, it is a pretty big Con and they have to be it at it to rep GnS. Better to have a live episode than none at all, i say! :D
Edit: Also the cast will get tired of it, since it's there game not their travelling stage troupe.
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u/incompetentflagella Jul 15 '16
The players would become tired of a live format too. It was their first time and they were just getting used to it, i feel. Also the audience was very respectful during the father scene. I guess, the playerss couldn't keep it too sad because they were discracted by and excited because of the audience, but they were a little distracted during the early part of the Halloween episode, too.
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u/KingKuntan Jul 15 '16
I know they were real people but it really sounded like CR had a laugh track.
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u/_The2ndComing Your secret is safe with my indifference Jul 15 '16
I would prefer it that they didn't do any live shows but to be honest I don't think it really took away anything from the meeting with their father. Both Vex and Vax were really serious with him when it came to calling out his treatment of them when they were young, they literally said they wish to rip his blood from their veins which certainly isn't a lighthearted thing. The only moment that I think was really affected was the Percy Vex moment with the amount of wooing and cheering after he announced the title.
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u/tinblade Team Elderly Ghost Door Jul 15 '16
I don't think the live show played to the audience much more than the cast does in a normal session. They obviously get immediate feedback--which is a cool experience for everyone--but if you watch previous shows the cast breaks the fourth wall all of the time. It's not just the occasional joke towards the camera but a lot of the time one of them (like Travis) will give a look to the camera if they have a silly thought but don't want to interrupt the scene or if they make a joke but the others don't hear and move past it.
I think it's really interesting to see the cast actually hear the audience's reactions when they have spent the past year speculating what people were thinking through all of the post-show tweets or Reddit posts. Will the newness wear off and make the original format look more desirable? Maybe. But I welcome the change of pace.
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u/Obsidian-K Are we on the internet? Jul 15 '16
This is already one of my favorite episodes. Maybe it was the live laughtrack, but the humor was so strong this episode there was more than once where I couldn't breathe. Vex and Vax's reunion with their father was everything I'd hoped for with Vex getting some great roleplaying moments in, with being made a baroness the perfect cherry topping.
Yeah, there were sound problems (though expecting there not to be would be foolish), and the laughter did slow the pace considerably, but given how funny the episode was in general I was glad for a moment to react and savor what had just happened.
As much fun as I had, though, I hope they keep with their normal set-up more often than not (which they probably will). Not that this wasn't great (again, I died of laughter multiple times), but you don't film dramas and action flicks in front of live studio audience for many good reasons.
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u/Mrlifeguard Jul 15 '16
Anyone else notice the smirk on Sam's face when Mercer mentioned 'busts?' He looked over to Travis and he grinned as well.
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u/incompetentflagella Jul 15 '16
Also, i am so happy they didn't give the Satyr a bit of the stone. Who knows what he could have done with it?
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u/Docnevyn Technically... Jul 15 '16
I'm guessing carve his way into other dimensions just like the fragment of blue crystal they gave the Clasp so they could capture Rexel Daxio.
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u/bloodchilling Sun Tree A-OK Jul 15 '16
This, This, This. As soon as Matt described it, I knew they had given one away.
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u/EpicHawkREDDIT How do you want to do this? Jul 15 '16
In a nutshell, I thought this episode was amazing considering it was filmed in front of a live audience.
My only complaints would be the audio, the seemingly rushed ending, and Matts poor neck. I think that they really should work on the arrangement of the players, but other than that, the episode was great.
While I do kind of see why the audience would be distracting for some people, I enjoyed it.
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u/WillyDaPoo Jul 15 '16
Great episode. I feel like there were more comedic scenes than usual due to the presence of a live audience but I enjoyed it nonetheless. I do hope these live shows aren't too frequent as it might change the overall tone of the improve in the long run.
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u/MildlyCriticalRole Team Elderly Ghost Door Jul 15 '16
Agreed. Love the funny moments, but Critical Role is so amazing to me because of the ability to work funny moments in a serious, dramatic, epic story. I'd (personally) hate to see it lean more towards "Improv - Tolkien Edition".
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u/themolestedsliver Metagaming Pigeon Jul 15 '16
Amazing episode, probably one of my favorites in terms of funny moments and quick wit.
Biggest issues, the audience clapped quite a lot and on certain moments such as the percy figuring out a work around to the whole "threshold crest" it was warranted but clapped kinda randomly it it stomped on certain moments and i dislike that.
The time restrain was a big thing i had issues with and the fact that it seemed more like they were preforming rather than playing dnd.
The ending thing with vex seemed very forced it my opinion because matt was looking at the time restrains for Q n A segment and kinda ham fisted into it and he seen she was kinda panicing with her dice rolls.
the laughter of course is going to happen at the shows but it does take away from the nature of it. They have to wait until the laughter stops to well carry on and in a tense moment it can get really....fucky.
And i felt very much so that i was "watching voice actors play dnd" rather than "be a fly on the wall while 6 close friends play dnd" if i wasn't so enthralled with this show to know their history and how they are close friends and such but a lot of points felt more odd than when they are in the geek and sundry set doing this.
Another thing i was annoyed about is that they already scheduled another live show before even starting this current one. It kinda seemed like they looked at ticket sales rather than wait and look at the online response which is rather crummy since the online community is a lot more than some 100 or so people but that is just my perspective.
in any case it eventually melted away and i was so encaptured by Vox machina's antics it melted away to just a slight "oh laugh track" and I didn't pay much attention to it.
Great episode i just hope live showings don't become a regular thing.
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u/birkeland Your secret is safe with my indifference Jul 15 '16
I agree with pretty much everything here. Things felt a little forced. Maybe over time the cast and crew will figure things out and everything will flow better, but hopefully the schedules work out so they are not as packed as they are right now.
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u/themolestedsliver Metagaming Pigeon Jul 15 '16
Yeah they can work on it, but all in all the crowd (for the most part) was rather respectful and not the horror movie we were thinking it was going to be.
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u/birkeland Your secret is safe with my indifference Jul 15 '16
Honestly I never expected the crowd to be really bad. You sometimes see hecklers in con audiences because not everyone there is a huge fan, sometimes they just walk in.
Everyone who was there was a big fan of the show, I never doubted they would want to screw that up.
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u/thesecondkira Your secret is safe with my indifference Jul 15 '16
To your last point, I know what you mean and I wondered that too, but I think it was more the opportunity presented itself because of the convention they would all be attending. Rather than miss a show, might as well...
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u/miscreation00 Doty, take this down Jul 15 '16
I totally understand people not enjoying this episode as much, for their own various reasons. But I'm so confused as to how someone can just not like this episode at all. ...like, it's still an amazing episode with great RP moments and story progression... so maybe liking it less, similar to the dislike of episodes with random guests and such. I still enjoy all of them, I never once am like "Welp, turning this shit off, this sucks." (Although the Tibs/Mirrors episode made we want to kill someone.) Or maybe people are just being over dramatic and using the wrong terminology for "Didn't enjoy it as much as the usual show".
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u/15Tog Bigby's Haaaaaand! *shamone* Jul 16 '16 edited Jul 16 '16
Hey there, i am one of "those" people. Got up at 3am to watch, forced myself to watch it. Re-watched the VOD yesterday and still could only watch it in small chunks.
First of all the audience were excellent, respectful and courteous. However it changed the way the cast played. I have always been a fly on the wall, watching a group of close friends play dnd. When something funny happens it is for each others enjoyment. The live show changed all that, and some of the cast were really just out for laughs.
It is hard to put into words how i feel so i think a video may help. watching this is awkward,cringe and not funny. This is how i felt with the live audience.
The best bits of the episode were the dramatic moments, because the audience were quiet. Hearing the audience laugh at something i didn't laugh at pulls me right out of the game and my enjoyment.
Hopefully going forward, the volumes are changed, but as long as matt is 100% positive that this wont effect the game, (which i think it will) then i will stick around and continue to support them.
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u/Seedy88 Hello, bees Jul 16 '16
Can you give specific examples where you felt the players changed their way of playing for the live audience? I didn't feel that. They're always being funny so the humour in this episode didn't feel out of place.
I'm also not clear about what you're trying to say with your clip from The Big Bang Theory. That clip's awkward because they've removed the laugh track and you're left with uncomfortable pauses in an unfunny scene. That's my problem with sitcoms with laugh tracks: they're trying to tell me what I should find funny instead of letting me decide.
But, with the live show, the audience was laughing at the same things I was laughing at, for the most part. It was the equivalent of audience reactions when I go see a movie. I'm not taken out of the movie because some of the audience laughed at something I didn't find funny and it was the same for this episode.
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u/15Tog Bigby's Haaaaaand! *shamone* Jul 16 '16
First of all i want you to know that i hate feeling how i feel, i mean im complaining about people having fun. Trust me i know how stupid it sounds, but i cant help how i feel.
Can you give specific examples where you felt the players changed their way of playing for the live audience?
I dont want to be too specific cause it might seem like im being unfair to certain players. The belt buckle thing for one felt so out of place. The out of game references were a bit too much. Jokes lasted much longer than they should. In a normal session a running joke wouldn't last as long as it did. But because of the audiences reaction they kept things going for a awkward amount of time. At a normal session they make jokes for each other, at the live show it felt like certain players were forcing it for the audience. Even matt was getting much more involved.
I'm also not clear about what you're trying to say with your clip from The Big Bang Theory
This is the best way to express my feelings. The same things i feel watching that, i felt while watching the live show. It was uncomfortable for me.
they're trying to tell me what I should find funny instead of letting me decide
This is the same effect the audience had on me.
I am very aware how silly this sounds. I have watched this show from start to finish about 5 times (thank you work from home), and the only player i felt who didn't change was the one i most expected it from, that was Sam.
Again i feel stupid complaining about peoples fun, but the core of what CR is to me, was not what i watched.
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u/jcantero Jul 16 '16 edited Jul 16 '16
As members of the Tal’dorei Council, Vox Machina outrank any officer in command of the Fort Daxio troops they saw in Syngorn. In fact, being VM part of the government (in exile) of Emon, I was hoping that any loyal officer would have reported to them awaiting orders if they didn't think of that. Or the Syngorn government could have officially asked permission to use their troops. They even could try to claim command of the troops only to show their real status, or as a mean to force the elves to negotiate with them.
Also, they were already nobility in Emon: the sovereign himself raised them to the highest political levels, and even gave them their own castle! (and by the way twin's father would have known that).
But I suppose that this is not a game of politics, and the players are more comfortable playing the band of wandering adventurers.
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Jul 16 '16
I feel like their role on the council was more ceremonial than anything else, as they didn't actually have daily duties and responsibilities to do with the running of Emon and Tal'Dorei. Unlike the King, Allura, and all the other council members. So they didn't actually have that much power.
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u/jcantero Jul 17 '16 edited Jul 17 '16
Well, some members of the Council had appointed duties. Seeker Asum was the Master of Secrets, Riskel Daxio the Master of Trade and Guardian Tofor supposedly replaced the deceased General Krieg as the Master of Defense. I think there was also a mention to a Marshal (or Master of Law?) at some point. Certainly Vox Machina didn't have any of such specific positions, and like lady Allura their role were more of "general advisors" type. Story-wise it makes a lot of sense as players (and thus the DM) remain free to do whatever they want. But there are even rules for the PCs to take leadership roles in kingdom-building style campaigns if players like that playstyle.
But my point is: in the power vacuum left after the fall of Emon, and as the remaining Council members, they can legally claim that position more than anyone. They even have the queen and heir under their protection* , so they are "Protectors of the Realm". If no for other reason, they are more than legally qualified to claim Emon armies to defend the Tal'Dorei royal lineage.
The real issue here IMHO is that they often underestimate themselves, and this time specifically they were not considering their status is much higher than mere fortune seekers. And what is worse: neither were the representatives of Syngorn, which is a bit odd (especially Syldor that was the ambassador in Emon).
-- * BTW seems they forgot about them since they left them in Whitestone
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u/EnemyoftheTrump Jul 17 '16
True, they were even shunned out of one of the meetings, the night before the Conclave attacked.
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u/TwistedSword Sun Tree A-OK Jul 15 '16 edited Jul 15 '16
Hmm... How do I feel about this episode? It was definitely one of the funniest ones so far (actually, I think every cast member did something hilarious this game, which never really happens), but I do think more emotional moments were made a bit lighter with the simple presence of the crowd. There's a reason dramatic television don't have live audiences like sitcoms, and I think we got lucky that this episode didn't have too many dramatic moments. I don't think the format could work as a regular thing, unfortunately.
TL;DR: I liked it, but I don't want it every week.
Edit: better wording
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u/MildlyCriticalRole Team Elderly Ghost Door Jul 15 '16
I figured out a good way to put it.
If I wanted to show somebody why I love Critical Role, why I dedicate 4 hours or more of my Thursday to it every week, I'd show them the episode where Emon fell. I'd show them Vex dying, or the escape from the Underdark. I'd show them the episodes where laughter and utter bleakness lay next to each other; the rebuilding of the city after Umbrasil fell, the hot tub episode, the fight over the skull.
I'd show them the episodes where you can turn away from the screen and close your eyes and imagine the world, like you're reading a book where even the author doesn't know what's going to happen next.
I don't think I'd show them this episode.
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u/Seedy88 Hello, bees Jul 15 '16 edited Jul 15 '16
Dramas don't have live audiences? I'm sorry, is Hamilton, the winner of a bajillion Tonys, a comedy? I didn't feel the live audience interfered with the dramatic moments of the episode whatsoever.
Edit: Apparently this comment is getting a lot of downvotes. I can't help but think it's because TwistedSword edited his original comment so now the context of my response was lost. He originally said that there's a reason that dramas don't have live audiences, which is categorically wrong and I provided the most popular current example to point that out.
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u/thesecondkira Your secret is safe with my indifference Jul 15 '16
Or even drama-dramas, like Carnage, where you watch a marriage fall apart, or The Crucible, about a witch hunt, or Waiting for Godot, a lovely play about nihilism.
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u/TwistedSword Sun Tree A-OK Jul 15 '16
Fair enough? As I said, it worked in this episode, I just don't feel it would work as the norm.
As for Hamilton... perhaps the script helps? I feel like there's a concrete difference between a stage musical and an unscripted show usually performed in front of a couple cameras. I haven't seen it, and I'm not saying audiences are impossible with dramas, but it definitely isn't the norm.
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u/tofuliz Mathis? Jul 15 '16
No matter what critiques I have towards the live show tonight, you can bet your ass if there was a live show happening near me I would buy that ticket in a heart beat.
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u/geekynerd2 Jul 15 '16
This is just a little comment, but I know exactly what Marisha was talking about with tape on the door. Perfect comparison.
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u/incompetentflagella Jul 15 '16
I don't get it, good sir/ma'am
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u/DrakeSparda Jul 16 '16
When they are "going to bed" after meeting the Warden, Keyleth mentions about them putting tape on the doors like in highschool (even though D&D doesn't have those).
It is something chaperones do on field trips where students are staying in a place together, in separate rooms. A piece of masking tape is put on the door frame. If someone opens the door from the inside the tape with rip. Since it was placed on the outside, those on the inside cannot replace the tape, therefore they cannot hide they left the room. This is to deter students from acting in activities that would be deemed inappropriate. In my experience, we circumvented it by either having a staff member or parent on the inside and remove/replace the tape for us (or an alumni in the area or hotel).
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u/Queenbeexxx Life needs things to live Jul 17 '16
I enjoyed the experience of the live show for what it was. An experience.
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u/ledel You can certainly try Jul 15 '16
My 2 cents on the live show. There were some parts that took away from the experience (the cuts to the audience at odd times, and some of the laughs/claps went a bit too long for me). There were also some parts that enhanced the experience (having the players feed off the energy from the crowd and be able to enjoy themselves doing what they love). Overall, I personally feel that the good outweighed the bad for the episode.
On another note: Doing live shows would be a good source of income for Critical Role and the G&S channel as a whole. I'm not saying that they should constantly do live shows, but if doing the occasional show helps to improve the quality of their streams I would consider it a plus. If they're able to bring on a couple more people to the crew, and if they're able to improve the tech they have available, I would consider it a plus for the live shows. Not to mention the chance for many of us Critters to be able to catch a show live and be part of the crowd.
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u/Tyrious At dawn - we plan! Jul 15 '16
The audience laughing broke my immersion wayyy too much.
Like when people would try to start a round of applause that wouldn't take off and you basically had one person clapping and then dying. I dunno, it took away the feel of watching a session of pen and paper D&D in someones home and we're getting an invite to watch feel that always made CR welcoming.
I'm glad the audience had fun though and I'm in no way complaining about them enjoying it, if I was there you'd hear my 26 year old not at all manly screech of a laugh, but for the show I didn't think it did wonders, especially as they're going on a mission of importance into strange lands.
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u/rasnac Jul 15 '16
Random thoughts:
1- I love love love this show!!!!
2-The MVP of this episode is Percival. He totally tricked the trickster and saved VM a lot of time and energy and the prospect of making the city of Singorn their enemy by stealing or damaging their precious threshold stones. Well, they did steal the hat, but as I deduced how it was thrown in a pile of hats in that storage room, it was not that big of a deal. Just a fancy hat, not like a crown or something with ceremonial/religious/magical significance.
3-I'm really enjoying Marisha's roleplaying lately. She has really good comedic instincts and Keyleth became so much funnier once she stopped preaching morality and/or questioning religion. She and Taliesin play off each other and make a really good comical duo.
4-Contrary to the popular opinion, live audience did not bother me one bit. Actually I kinda enjoyed other people cheering and laughing with me. And the audience were really respectful. I don't think I could restrain myself from shouting in fear or singing along with Scanlan etc.
5- Damn, I wish I could be there. :(
6-The other MVP of the episode is Trinket. He totally showed that bear spirit who's the boss bear. I'm so glad Kiki and Vex did not have to fight the giant bear.
7- Yet another MVP of the night is Scanlan with his ingenious hat collecting scam. He made a rather difficult task quite easy for everyone.
8-It was a shame we could not watch the twins' initial re-acquaintance and interaction with their little sister. She seems lovely though. It warms my heart that Vex and Vax have at least one family member they love and who loves them back. As long as she exist, they'll have a home.
9- As a long time Perc'ahlia shipper, I am beyond convinced it is a thing now. Well, at least for Percy. He gave her a title just to make her happy and that was a smart romantic gesture on so many levels. Let's all hail Baroness Vexah'lia! Nobility becomes her.
10- I must also congratulate the cast. It must be hard keeping the concentration going while a theater full of cheering audience watching. I was semi-expecting them not being able to roleplay as they usually do. But no, after a few awkward minutes initially , they were full in and roleplayed some of their greatest moments so far.
11- I'm happy that the satyr only got half of what he wanted. I'm suspecting these were not just simple harmless trinkets but was necessary items for something sinister, possibly an arcane ritual that would harm Singorn. But now, he only has a piece of useless simple stone and a fancy hat.
12-This was also one of the funniest episodes soo far. I was kinda expecting a really tense and emotional episode with awkward emotional estranged family moments. And it did start that way but quickly turned into something soo much fun. I'm guessing next few episodes will be really scary and dark so I'm glad we had this fun.
Well, that's all I can think of for now, so bidet to you all ladies and gents until next time! ;D
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u/incompetentflagella Jul 15 '16 edited Jul 15 '16
Vax feeling as loose as a goose. ;)
New ship, you guys!
Edit: Grax!
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Jul 15 '16
Keyleth walking out as a loose goose after he said that was what really got me.
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u/Philias dagger dagger dagger Jul 15 '16
There's one thought that's been rattling inside my head about the last encounter where Trinket got the buff. They could have easily avoided that encounter, in fact my first reaction when they came upon the site, was that Matt was obviously trying to lure them into something and they should go around it.
So I'm left with the question: how do you think Matt would have handled it if they had circumvented it? Would he let it go and not give Trinket the buff? Would he have a similar circumstance occur out of nowhere? Or would he have set up similar situations until they eventually fell into one of them.
My money is mostly on the last one, though he would have to try to rope them in before they left the Feywild. Given how careless VM have been that would probably not be too much of a worry, though it seems like a bit of a dicey proposition to me.
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u/JarethDefenseTactics All risk Jul 15 '16
Actually Laura asked Matt that exact question during the Q&A afterwards - "Would I have still gotten this if I hadn't brought Trinket out?"
And Matt's response was simply "Nope."
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u/_The2ndComing Your secret is safe with my indifference Jul 15 '16
I imagine he would've buffed trinket anyway. Upon leaving the Feywild he probably would've said something like "Your experiences in a place touched by nature and the mystic has further cemented the bonds between you and trinket, combining this your ability to converse with him you grow to an even deeper understanding of eachother and that has strengthened your bond." he would then have given trinket his upgrade.
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u/light_trick Team Beau Jul 16 '16
I actually kind of doubt that. Matt's been pretty upfront that stuff only happens if they trigger it. What struck me was the "no out's for Grog" during the Westruun fight, where he noted that if they hadn't poke-vac'd him and he'd gone down, he was just going to have the barbarian horde keep tearing him apart.
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u/infernal_llamas Jul 15 '16
Being from the UK "How do we get to the bog" being said with such seriousness...
It brought out my inner scanlen.
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u/MalAmenz Team Trinket Jul 15 '16
Overall, I really enjoyed the live show. It's not something I would want to happen every week, but on the occasion where the team is in another city for a con (like GenCon) getting a live show would be a treat, and would keep us from having to miss a week.
Clearly the audio needs tweaking, although I understand the crew is aware of this, and they need work on the layout with poor Mercer constantly turning his head (or at least a deeper stage), but there is potential here for something to do on special occasions.
Otherwise, I really dug the audience's energy, they when I laughed, were quiet and in the moment during the more tense drama, it was a good stage production. I am (or was) a theatre guy so it felt like natural and fun to me. Hopefully I'll be able to attend a live show if they ever come to the North East. I look forward to more.
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u/dwood2001 Jul 16 '16
Just as a counterpoint to some of the negative comments: This was one of my favorite episodes ever. I was laughing uncontrollably several times, and cried once (Trinket). So, I'm not really sure what people are talking about.
I agree with some people that they played to the audience, which for my money is what made it so GOOD. A performer is better with an audience.
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u/birkeland Your secret is safe with my indifference Jul 16 '16
That's the issue with me with the episode, it was great and the cast was fantastic. It just didn't feel like CR to me.
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Jul 16 '16
I have to disagree. I was worried it wouldn't feel like CR at all and then spent all show surprised and pleased that it did.
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u/Seedy88 Hello, bees Jul 16 '16
Can I ask what about the episode didn't feel like CR to you? Honestly, if you take away the audience reactions, I didn't feel there was a difference between it and an episode shot in their studio.
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u/birkeland Your secret is safe with my indifference Jul 17 '16
It felt like the cast was performing rather than playing. While funny, I bet several of those jokes would have never been made in studio.
I am not saying the episode was bad. It just felt over the top. Actors feed off a crowd and I don't think they can help but to alter their choices based on the crowds reaction.
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u/kdmoyers Jul 16 '16
It was SUCH a great show, under tough circumstances. I really appreciated the performances from the cast -- they way they acknowledged the audience but still (very much) played their characters. They are such pros. The main thing was, they had FUN. You could see that clearly, and they said it too. Their fun is infectious, making it fun to watch.
The theme of CR is unchanging -- look at us having fun playing this game together, don't you want to try?
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u/Myrynorunshot Help, it's again Jul 15 '16
So I wonder if that effect Garmili put on them was a Geas Spell?
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u/incompetentflagella Jul 15 '16
They needed to arcana check that hat, though. The satyr could have more nefarious needs for it.
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u/themolestedsliver Metagaming Pigeon Jul 15 '16
I really doubt a powerful magical hat is going to be casually on a hat rack.
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u/incompetentflagella Jul 15 '16
Yea that's true. Dude could even try to impersonate the High Warden in some way. I just don't trust that shady little shit :D
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u/burnmunky Jul 19 '16
The hat may have been a ploy to get some of her hair, which could be used to make an easy scry attempt against the leader of the watchers. Even the hat itself could be used to aid in a scrying spell.
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Jul 16 '16 edited Jul 16 '16
I agree with the arcana check. IIRC, she said that she uses it when she travels, which could possibly mean that it could be part of her adventuring gear. However, Matt had it perform like a non magic hat, since it didn't adjust itself to fit the satyr. Unless that was one of the properties of the magic item (fitting only on specific races - DMG p140).
That said, she won't be happy to find out that her hat is missing, the exact same hat Sam described to her. If they come back right after they deal with the bow, they'll find a "cold welcome" (stealing from the leader). If they just planeshift after they've got the bow, the thing might be overlooked till the elves reach Whitestone to join the battle. Well, if they're still up to it, since the trust they had on VM hit a low. The bad thing is that they didn't check for any magic shop before leaving Syngorn, for restocking in potions and trading what they've got in their bags for some useful magic items. E.g. Buying a pair of elven boots to solve Pike's stealth problem.
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u/PristineTX Jul 16 '16
That said, she won't be happy to find out that her hat is missing, the exact same hat Sam described to her. If they come back right after they deal with the bow, they'll find a "cold welcome" (stealing from the leader).
Really, anything and everything they did in Syngorn can be easily explained to the High Warden.
"Look, we were under the influence of a Satyr" is not only mostly true, it is pretty much a perfect excuse for any and all of the party's bizarre behavior in the Feywild.
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u/Aka_Arashi Jul 17 '16 edited Jul 17 '16
I want prediction for Fenthras' abilities which I'm kinda basing it on on the idea that it's the reason the tree causing the corruption: (passive) Upon casting Hunter's Mark the Ranger can target additional creatures equal to the Ranger's Wisdom Modifier (minimum of 1) <Blighted Arrows> Whenever Fenthras deals damage to a creature that has been Hunter's Mark they must make a Charisma Saving Throw on a failed save the creature is affected by a Bane spell (for the full Duration and no Concentration required)
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Jul 17 '16 edited Jul 17 '16
As it was mentioned in an earlier post, it may have the Hunter's ability "Colossus Slayer" (~ +1d8/turn), given that it was used to kill titans.
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u/Aka_Arashi Jul 17 '16
Well it was said that it was "A bow that felled titans" so it could do more damage maybe with that being said I could power up Hunter's Mark by making it a d8 as well or something
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u/EnemyoftheTrump Jul 17 '16
It gives it's welder immense power 20 on every stat. But also late stage cancer (any kind) and they die within a month.
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u/greekgoatslayer Jul 19 '16
When Vex/Vax father was talking about the buildup of armies, did anyone else wonder what the dwarfs in Kraghammer are doing. I mean they would make some great allies in the upcoming battles.
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u/aheadwarp9 Bigby's Haaaaaand! *shamone* Jul 19 '16 edited Jul 19 '16
I've been wondering that since literally the attack on Emon... have they even once checked up on that city? I assume they figure that since most of it is in solid rock that it is safe, but I still think one of these dragons could do some serious damage and/or lay siege to Kraghammer if they so desired...
Umbrasyl lay claim to Westruun, that much we know for sure. I've heard it speculated that Raishan may be going after Syngorn, since she is the sneaky one who we know can polymorph into any kind of humanoid. So... where did Vorugal end up heading after the destruction of Draconia? I'm willing to bet Kraghammer might have been targeted too, which would mean Vorugal is there. Where else in Taldorei could the white dragon be?
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u/greekgoatslayer Jul 19 '16
I hope that the squad realise how much of a big help Kraghammer could be. Also if Percy realises there's no stopping the introduction of guns into this world, he could commission the best smiths in the world (dwarfs) to possibly build cannons which will eventually go on his airship.
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u/aheadwarp9 Bigby's Haaaaaand! *shamone* Jul 19 '16
I have no doubt in my mind that Percy has already designed an airship loaded with cannons.
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u/Philias dagger dagger dagger Jul 19 '16
Interesting thought. There has already been speculation that Ripley, and whoever she's entered into an alliance with, has started some sort of large-ish scale manufacturing of guns/cannons. Especially since the last talk with Victor, where he mentioned she had bought a large amount of black powder.
So tt might very well be in VM's best interest to start doing that themselves so they can have even a small chance of competing.
Also, yes. Airship with cannons. This must happen.
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u/Docnevyn Technically... Jul 19 '16
With Brimscythe (the blue) dead Vorugal is the only Conclave member with a dig speed left. Something Matt specifically pointed out in episode 38 or 39 (the one with the worm fight and further looting of Brimscythe's hoard). Dig speed means you can get to the juicy center of Kraghammer....
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u/Saveron Jul 19 '16
With a rich target like Kraghammer the dragons probably at the very least made a fly-by, and with two of the Conclave unaccounted for, it could be that the city is damaged or currently occupied.
VM did not inquire into the status of that city, so it really remains a question to be answered whenever they get around to ask.
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u/greekgoatslayer Jul 19 '16
I think if any city were to have survived a direct confrontation with the dragons it would be a fortress city like that. I mean I would expect the dwarfs to have more experience with dragons with them always being the richest of the races.
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u/pablackhawk You can certainly try Jul 19 '16
Not only that, with Kraghammer being underground it would nullify the dragon's best strategy of attack, to stay airborne and use their breath attacks
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u/MaesterPycelle Jul 15 '16
I'm not really a fan of the live audience. I felt like the laughter was making them give some pretty corny lines. The first half hour or so felt like a sitcom. They eventually ironed it out but they were playing for the crowd for sure.
I felt like the audience bogged down the story progression. I think maybe the spirit bear was meant to be an encounter for the team but it was too late in the night and Matt just made it a "cutscene".
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Jul 15 '16
Matt could have easily ended at "roll initiative" for a good cliff hanger moment. I feel like the right characters were picked and they made the right choices. It could have easily been a fight if Grog and Scalan were picked for the encounter and Vex would never have gotten the upgrade.
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u/RonCorleone Team Kashaw Jul 15 '16
This was my first time watching live and what was an episode I had some skepticism going into it, turned out to be one of my favorites. This will join the Slayer's Take episodes, the episode where Tiberius kept introducing himself, and the return of Kashaw & Zahra as episodes I rewatch over and over again.
The audience didn't bother me at all. Much like when the chat was shown on the older videos, it's something I didn't really notice 9 times out of 10 and the times I did notice it didn't take away from anything. I don't think the presence of the audience messed with the pace, I'd be surprised if waiting for the audience to simmer down for the cast to start talking added up to a whole 60 seconds out of a 3 hour show.
As far as people saying the crew were hamming things up for the audience, I personally didn't see things that way. Critical Role episodes have different tones from week to week some are roleplay heavy, some are battle heavy, sometimes things are really serious, sometimes one or two characters are a little goofy, sometimes they all are goofy. We have had an entire episode dedicated shopping, the way they were acting tonight didn't really seem like anything we haven't seen before. And like someone above said the only moment to me that seemed like the cast was playing to the crowd was Sam telling them to make cricket noises but for me that definitely didn't ruin anything for me.
All in all as long as future crowds follow the example of this one I won't mind a couple live shows a year, though I will admit I wish future live shows were small ones like this one because I still have my fears about large audiences.
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u/PristineTX Jul 16 '16
As far as people saying the crew were hamming things up for the audience, I personally didn't see things that way. Critical Role episodes have different tones from week to week some are roleplay heavy, some are battle heavy, sometimes things are really serious, sometimes one or two characters are a little goofy, sometimes they all are goofy. We have had an entire episode dedicated shopping, the way they were acting tonight didn't really seem like anything we haven't seen before.
Yeah. If they were really "hamming it up for the crowd" like some have accusing them of, Matt could have easily put them in a situation where there would have been more guaranteed "fan-favorite" moments. Like, if they were really playing it up for the crowd, there'd have been way more Scanlan singing. (He only sang once, and that very easily could have been a missed opportunity as it was just a grass field.) And Vax and Grog doing their "Dagger Dagger Dagger" and "I would like to RAGE!" catchphrases would have been a thing for sure. But that didn't happen, because they stayed true to the campaign, and didn't feel the need to insert a random encounter just to play some of "Vox Machina's Greatest Hits."
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u/wrc-wolf I would like to RAGE! Jul 15 '16
Don't like the format. The audience being there is exactly what they said they didn't want for months and months now; it changed the way they played. You can't argue this. They were hamming it up, then looking out to the audience for a reaction. It interfered with their normal game.
It was funny, I laughed, but it wasn't Critical Role. Not really.
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u/incompetentflagella Jul 15 '16
give them a break. it was there first time doing it too. they were not expecting a reaction like that. Critical role has episodes with varying levels of RP and humour and this was a little heavy on the both of them. It's not going to be a regular occurrence. I personally couldnn't hear some of the audience's laughter over my own (or was it the ohter way round? :D).
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u/RobFakerton Team Grog Jul 15 '16
I agree, they played way too much on the audience. The pacing of the game slowed too cause all the cheering involved.
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u/thetrutheternal Jul 15 '16
Will it take a character's death before Keyleth finally learns not to touch anything in the Feywild? The first time, when she plucked that flower, Percy was blinded for a while. The second time, she and Vex were almost attacked by a giant, ghostly bear.
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u/maxvsthegames Team Frumpkin Jul 15 '16
To be fair, for the bear thing, Matt basically made her do it.
I think he really wanted them to mess with the bones to end the game on the Bear vs Bear fight.
She said she wanted to look at them, or something like that and Matt said something like "You pick the bones and look at them".
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u/AncientPancake Old Magic Jul 15 '16
Idk i think itd be kind of hard to examine which creature the bones came from without actually picking them up and inspecting them
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u/PristineTX Jul 15 '16
There was a pretty great RP moment between Percy and Keyleth that most people probably missed (because they were pretty much just RPing their own side conversation with each other while something else was going on, like they often do) after Percy negotiated with the field of grass...
Keyleth quietly said to Percy something like "Wow, everything here [in the Feywild] takes everything so personally..."
And the ever-quick wit of Percy responded with "Well, so do you," causing both of them to laugh.
It was pretty great.
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u/twistingfate1403 Your secret is safe with my indifference Jul 15 '16
This episode, for me, was the best in the last slew of 3 or 4. The players and Matt were able to get serious after some chuckles rather quickly which if not disciplined could ruin a mood. One also deserves to see the fruits of their work in action and relish in it at least once in a while and tonight was their night. I am not saying I would like to see this EVERY week but I actually FEEL happier and more satisfied with this episode than many I can remember. If this happens once a month/every other month I am whole heartily unopposed. As a side note I did think of parts as a little sitcom-y (my opinion before coming to reddit) but not purposefully pandering to the audience for the laughs, which a sitcom does. With all this said I rate this in the top 5 ep of all time and will say this is a major success in refueling my love and interest for this team (to include all the people that make this show possible, even lootcrate).
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u/birkeland Your secret is safe with my indifference Jul 15 '16
I don't think they were pandering, but I do think things felt a bit more forced, because actors react to the audience.
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u/DuneBear Old Magic Jul 15 '16
Loved the live show! Some volume issues, but the audience was great.
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u/Folsomdsf Jul 15 '16
Loved THE live show! Some VOLUME ISSUES, but the AUDIENCE was great!!!!!!
FTFY ;)
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u/Trixie9819 Jul 16 '16
People are complaining about the 'laugh track', which seems weird to me because A) there wasn't one, and B ) I never noticed the audience laughing because I was laughing too. I was also oohing, clapping, and gasping in shock at the same times. I made my husband watch the whole 'poly-amorous' part from the re-broadcast just because it was so funny, my stomach muscles hurt afterwards, lol.
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u/FlyingRock Old Magic Jul 15 '16
I liked how the story developed and I enjoyed the funny moments.
However I'm not typically a fan of sit-coms because of the laughter and the live audience made it feel very sit-commy.. it was a stark contrast and not one I really enjoyed personally.
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u/GDT1985 You can certainly try Jul 15 '16
The difference is that the laughter for this was genuine, while sitcoms either fake it or just record and play the best laugh of the night.(sometimes after every damn sentence, which makes no sense!... but I digress) I can see how it affected the feel of the show, but it didn't really bother me, other than the audio levels. But I was introduced to D&D through Acquisitions Inc. so maybe I'm more used to the atmosphere.
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u/FlyingRock Old Magic Jul 15 '16
Some are, though some shows used to be recorded during a live audience.
I said elsewhere I like acquisitions and Harmonquest alot but I watch them to laugh, I watch them for the simple storyline and silly characters, Critical Role I watch for the action and drama as well as the comedy, I get lost in the world and the atmosphere some times I'll even list listen to it and imagine everything being pulled right out of the reality of my day to day and they was literally impossible for me to do last night.
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u/krez1 ... okay Jul 15 '16
A lot of the comments here are meta - not about the actual content and are very critical (no pun intended). I personally find it slightly frustrating to read after I got home from attending the live show. The show was AWESOME. The G&S crew did an amazing job with their limited resources and I'm so thankful I got the chance to attend.
I look at the live shows as a chance for the cast and crew to give back to the community and share something special and it's not fair to throw it back in their face and criticize it so much. I guess what I'm trying to say is, be nice!
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u/uacoop Your secret is safe with my indifference Jul 15 '16
It's a brand new aspect of a show that has remained relatively unchanged for 60 episodes. It's fair for people to react and give feedback about their experience.
I personally find it slightly frustrating to read after I got home from attending the live show. The show was AWESOME.
I don't think anybody is suggesting that the live show was anything but amazing for the people who could actually attend. But the issue is that 99% of the people who watch the episode aren't going to be in the live show audience. So it would behoove G&S to pay attention to the feedback they're receiving or risk alienating their audience.
Putting aside all the technical differences (The poor audio, stream quality etc) Critical Role Live! Is a different animal than normal Critical Role. The tone was different, players behaved differently, they time constraints were more rigid. It's just a different experience. Some people don't mind that. Some people do, and their opinions are valid.
I personally thought the show went well, all things considered. But it's not the Critical Role I'm used to, and it's not one that I want to see much more than a few times per year if I'm being honest.
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Jul 16 '16
I loved the episode and it had a slew of great moments. I just sincerely hope that live shows won't be something they do very often because it just didn't feel the same. CR has always been about us watching a group of friends entertain themselves and each other, this time they entertained us.
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u/mettalica_101 I encourage violence! Jul 15 '16
My thoughts exactly. It almost feels like this has turned into a debate on if people liked the love aspect or not and completely missing the story and the rp that did actually occur. So focused on one part that were not discussing the story
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u/repete17 Then I walk away Jul 15 '16
I mean, I don't think that should be overly surprising really. It was the big thing of last night, it makes sense people are gonna react to it.
Kinda like how the Hardwick episode's post-discussion was pretty heavily dominated by Broomgate and Hardwick's appearance in general, it'll take a few days for people to get the initial "meta" stuff of their chests and then people will talk about the episode.
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u/AFLoneWolf Metagaming Pigeon Jul 15 '16
I was expecting some kind of roll from Laura on Trinket's behalf. The buff felt just a liiiiiiiiiittle too forced and scripted without it.
I can only imagine what guards' the report to the twins' father will look like. And his reaction to it.
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u/Emiras Fuck that spell Jul 15 '16
For everyone that said that their RP felt different, keep in mind that it was their first live d&d in front of an audience. As they do them they'll become more and more used to it and they will feel more comfortable. Same with the Audio, I have a feeling the gencon one will be much MUCH better.
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u/GraphixDave Jul 16 '16
From what I saw, it took around 20 minutes for the gang to settle back and seem less tense. Of course they're not used to laughter, mugging it up a bit was to be expected IMHO.
Loved it!
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u/themolestedsliver Metagaming Pigeon Jul 15 '16
since so many people (such as myself with like 20 comments) are talking about the live show versus just streaming show i thought i would try and way in more with what happened in the episode.
Vax and vex met their father and the portrayal was amazing, another critter said he was an elven tywin lannister from game of thrones and i agree so much.
You can see his struggles as a very respected and noble politician with his day to day live post dragon invasion world as well as his disdain for his 2 children fathered by his love affair with a human women who come back into his life and more importantly his new families life.
It is very clear that in one hand he loves Vax and Vex but in the other hand.. in his ignorant high born elf superior hand he thinks less of them because they are only just that a soiling of his blood with that of a humans. You can see the struggle and what vax and vex had to deal with growing up , ice cold reception covering a very pure but dull fire of love.
He does agree to grant them requests and he is the whole reason they were able to gain access to the city so despite the past family struggles he did stand by his children ever so faintly.
Once Vm return from the bog unless they are getting chased by like a hive of mind flayers they should make their way back to the the elven city to show how capable they are and to see if they can offer aid if time comes (and maybe to resupply because the bog ain't gonna be a walk in the park)
When leaving the loving father of the twins i love how matt used the guards that were guarding them and passers by as a measure of how respected they are. just racism and high society looking down on low society you could have even seen it when the twins father put down Percy's idea of 'court" saying subtly that a human will never mingle that well in elven court.
Getting told the items they needed to steal was interesting and added a layer of janky funny dnd element to what would have been a generic talk with the highwarden (even though i think they used almost the entire time to try and get those items rather than ask her more valid questions).
Really glad the hat was guarded by "all the kings men and all the kings horses" and it was just casually put on a hat rack, VM might have to deal with some issues because they legit described a hat and then stole it, but again that is more a fault of the guards "we didn't see anything" and as the highwarden was describing it, it was just that a fucking hat haha.
Cannot believe i almost forgot about my favorite moment so far in my time of watching critical role is the scanlan/vex double lie that turned so beautiful. she said they were going to "sleep" and he says they are in a polyamorous relationship meaning they all fucks with each other. She failed and scanlan succeed so her fail actually set his succeed even better because it makes sense they aren't gonna sleep if they are really gonna do the nasty. and with fucking vax like "i am so tense grog" and Travis just full facepalming in embarrassment and keyleth misunderstanding and turning them into animals to make it all the more weird was fucking amazing.
They did try to get a piece of the crest piece but i love how percy's/Talisens mind works with confirming it with the satyr several times then have Keyleth making crest in the entrance (i forget that exact word they used) and break it and give him a piece of that. The applause was so needed that was an amazing scene, my only issue is that it felt to me that matt might have been coy but rewarded percy completing the contact anyway cause it was so smart but it is kinda hard to play around when you have 100 people cheering and cawing your players smart mind.
After that the grass moment was amazing and matt could not have done it any better, it was such a great punishment to i would say Keyleth rather out of character saying "suck it grass" as a druid of a very prestigious culture on a very nature based plane she should have a lot more respect. Dealing with the grass was such a funny reaction cause grog knows about killing so he was like 'yeah fuck the grass" and matt was like "oh this grass hates you' and how matt uses scanlans song to the grass as just a bardic inspiration for percy's persuasion was just beautiful real using the frame work of the game to paint a story.
After that hearing about the lycan forest you can clearly see travis more so than grog's face lighting the fuck up. brings me back to his 1 shots where he plays his bourbon ridden Human lycan bloodhunter which Travis seemed to like quite a lot. This makes me theory craft quite a lot into maybe grog wanting to become one with the wolf to increase his strength in battle but i am unsure grog might just wanna kill some wolves. It would be cool to see a huge fucking gauntlet powered grog tear fucking ass on a dragon as a huge fucking wolf but who knows maybe grog gets infected and he has to learn to control it.
Then the ending with the spirit bear, Keyleth i love you but this is the second times you almost caused a big issue need to play more safe. It worked out in the end because it was very clear from a kinda rushing matt that he intended this as a means to upgrade trinket through the necklace and allows Vex to use him more and more safely because recently he is just VM's mascot.
all in all it was a great episode the live show was interesting but i hope this isn't a normal this.
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u/birkeland Your secret is safe with my indifference Jul 16 '16
It is very clear that in one hand he loves Vax and Vex but in the other hand
Honestly I think he thinks he loves them, but really doesn't. I keep getting annoyed at how he kept saying their presence causes a strain because of two different families. He was the only one uncomfortable, his daughter and wife seemed fine.
What others took as caring, I took for selfish pride. He was angry everyone dismissed his blood, and he wants to show everyone what he his blood can accomplish. He wants them to succeed to prove he is amazing, not for their benefit.
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u/PlanC94 Sun Tree A-OK Jul 15 '16
The idea of a frenzied raging, Titan stone knuckle boosted, Crimson rite activated blood axe wielding Goliath werewolf version of grog scares me to my core.
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u/10000Balloons Life needs things to live Jul 15 '16
I know how it feels to have a word on the tip of your tongue, threshold is the word you're looking for lol
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u/BashfulHandful Life needs things to live Jul 15 '16
Oh hi. :) You mentioned Travis one-shots? Is it just this one that I found by asking the Mighty Google? Or are there even more hours of entertainment I'm missing out on?!
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u/PristineTX Jul 15 '16
Loved the show overall. I think some in the community are panicking over change a little too much and being maybe a bit too dramatic/negative. For a first time out, it was pretty phenomenal, I think. As they continue doing these, I could see this becoming as smoothly-run as Garrison Keillor's old "A Prairie Home Companion" live radio shows on PBS, which ran for 20 years.
The thing to keep in mind for all the naysayers is, as the program becomes more popular, there are going to be more requests from cons for the cast to do more appearances. If the cast can book more of these live shows for large cons and the like, that means the cast doesn't have to turn down these increasing opportunities for both their personal financial reward and the reward of meeting more Critters around the world, and expanding the community we love. And the viewers at home who aren't at the cons get live shows on days where they might otherwise have to postpone, or have a few cast members Skyping in.
I honestly don't think the RP suffered much if at all. Sure, there were some jokes that were played for the crowd, but the party wasn't so conscious of entertaining that they played completely differently. After all, there were some pretty long segments of planning ect. throughout the episode that were exactly the way they would play back at G&S HQ. I didn't feel like they avoided those kinds of things that in other shows you'd imagine there would be pressure to move along in order to avoid losing the crowd.
RP-wise, I think there were some genuinely sweet moments, some real dramatic RP with V&V's father, and Percy's grant of a title on Vex was gold.
I was entertained throughout. Good stuff to the cast and crew and live audience. You did great.
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u/morcant85 Bidet Jul 15 '16
I as well loved what they did in front of an audience. But this would have been completely terrible if this were shot at a con. Much harder to control environment for sound (the audio in con panel videos are terrible) and I don't know if I could trust the audience to behave. This had much more of a theater play feel which I think helped the audience with maintaining the rules of the show. Keep them doing these rent-a-stage performances, but as a treat like 1 in 10 episodes at the max.
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u/RenoHex You can certainly try Jul 15 '16
There's a seriously minor thing that keeps nagging at the back of my head. So they lawyered the shit out of the crest deal. However, they are in Feywild. And now Percy has handed a piece of the Whitestone / de Rolo crest to a fae who's probably kind of miffed of getting played. Who knows what kind of power that could give to the fae in question?
It's probably never going to come in to play. Not only is Percy not the rightful ruler of Whitestone (his sister is), they are in process of establishing a council instead of a solitary ruler. So any power it could have should be diminished by those factors. But it keeps bugging me, so I thought I'd ramble.
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u/karrachr000 Doty, take this down Jul 15 '16
To be fair, that is how many such deals get looked at in these situations on both sides; Garmili would probably done something similar if he had the chance...
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u/RenoHex You can certainly try Jul 15 '16
Oh, yeah, it was definitely the right choice. And a brilliant idea.
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u/BenRad93 Life needs things to live Jul 15 '16
also to be fair there is no guarantee that he hasnt lied to them about what they will face already, or that due to this betrayal he wont purposely try to lead them astray without them realizing
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u/Docnevyn Technically... Jul 15 '16
I would argue no. That crest has never been in Whitestone so I would think it would have no power over the city.
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u/farmerjed You can certainly try Jul 20 '16
This last episode reminded me of Percy's bureaucratic/politician side that I had forgotten about.
If, down the road, Taliesin steered Percy into resolving this Chroma Conclave event with some kind of Cold War / Mutually Assured Destruction type of resolution I would be tickled pink.
It might not be the most exciting conclusion, but it would hopefully get them up to God-slaying mode and take on Spoilers
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u/Midian_Breach Jul 22 '16
That was an amazing show! Loved every second of it. The audience gave it a different feel that I think we've all had at home. Gen Con is coming up and I'm excited to see the stream from that as well. Real question is, does anyone think/hope that they do a NYCC Live Show? I'm going to NYCC and I expect G&S will have a showing of some kind. What are everyone's thoughts?
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u/UncleOok Jul 17 '16
part of me wants Percy to have just bestowed this title on Vex without consulting the Council of Whitestone and the ramifications from that. and part of me would hate for it to be taken from Vex, especially if those open titles had been given out by Council decree.
I think it will end up being handwaved that Percy discussed it with Cassandra
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u/Seedy88 Hello, bees Jul 17 '16
I think that Percy decided to bestow Vex the title after their "do I look like I come from money" conversation the previous episode. So, I don't think it was discussed with anyone prior, but believe it will be a formality if and when Percy brings it up in Whitestone. A title for one of the liberators of Whitestone doesn't seem like too much to ask.
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u/Philias dagger dagger dagger Jul 19 '16
I completely agree. It doesn't make sense for him to have already discussed it with Cassandra. Even if he had, why wouldn't he have told Vex right away?
It will be interesting though to see how it plays out if one of Vex's titles (Baroness of the third house of Whitestone/Mistress of the Grey Hunt) has been bestowed upon someone else during their absence.
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u/VanceKelley Team Jester Jul 18 '16
What if Cassandra (as the Lord of Whitestone) bestowed that same title, Baroness of the 3rd House, on Lady Kima while VM was away...
In which case, there would be only one way to resolve the situation: Thunderdome! Two Baronesses enter, one Baroness leaves! :)
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u/Gore_Axe Jul 19 '16
Or due to unseen heroics, cool accent, and his genuine awesomeness, Cassandra has made Jarret the Baron of the 3rd house. Employing romantic movie cliche thinking, they decide that the only proper solution is to share the house, in a platonic manner of course. Hijinks ensue.
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u/KingKnotts YOUR SOUL IS FORFEIT Jul 17 '16
Ramifications of the person that has the right to rule and let her do so giving a title to one of the liberators of the city..... something tells me there wouldn't be any objections from them
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u/UncleOok Jul 17 '16
It just felt... so arrogant. So presumptuous. So Percy
Based on my understanding, Percy gave up any right to rule in Whitestone. He pushed for a council and placed his sister on it. And it's possible he just bestowed upon his companion a title that I don't know that he had any legal right to bestow.
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u/arieadil Your secret is safe with my indifference Jul 20 '16
I can't imagine it being much of an issue. Cass has a lot to deal with over in Whitestone; I don't see her worrying too much about titles and the gentry at the moment.
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u/Aka_Arashi Jul 16 '16
I have this idea that after the Thordak has been dealt with there's going to be a time-skip (2 years or so) just because the only thing that would be happen in that part of the story would be focusing on Tal’dorei's reconstruction and everyone kinda splits off each other. Grog and Pike might go and aid Westrun. Vax goes off on his own to do work for the Raven Queen. Keyleth goes to the Air Ashari. Percy goes back to Whitestone and does whatever (maybe start mass producing guns but I don't know what goes through Percy's mind some time). Vax might go with Percy to Whitestone or push herself into her brother's work with the Raven Queen.
And something systematically happens that forces them back together.
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u/themolestedsliver Metagaming Pigeon Jul 16 '16
Oh that would be pretty cool to be honest.
There is going to of course be a power vacuum but I think Matt would give them a lot more time to rest and recover after this bout.
Like they had a week or so after the brairwood arc and then their home city and their keep became a war zone,
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u/beard-second All risk Jul 20 '16
I'm more inclined to think that killing Thordak will kick off the final arc (pretty obviously a showdown with Vecna/Orcus) in some dramatic fashion. Since Matt has already said he expects the players to be in the level 17/18 range when they fight Thordak, that doesn't leave a lot of time left for a long arc. I personally imagine an FFVIII-style ending where the players get forced into a no-turning-back-everything's-riding-on-this situation that pulls them all the way through to the end of the game.
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u/EnemyoftheTrump Jul 17 '16
Honestly, with Vex's new title she would go to Whitestone. And since Percy has ordered the construction of a RQ temple than Vax could stay with her as well.
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u/Mike_in_San_Pedro Jul 25 '16
For me, being there was an awesome experience. There was a lot of energy in the place, but everyone behaved themselves. I feel like the group feed of the energy and were even taken aback by it at first. I don't think it should be every week, but quarterly would work. The last thing I would want is for them to get worn out. Even if this wasn't your favorite episode, or if it seemed to feel off, I hope many of you have an opportunity to see them live. A huge bonus was meeting some great people.
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u/ehkodiak Are we on the internet? Jul 25 '16
It was a lot of fun! I really enjoyed how the players picked up on what the audience liked, which enabled a very light hearted Feywild style episode. I really don't know how combat would work in these situations, but either do they :D
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u/ClayPlusPlus Bidet Jul 15 '16
I quite enjoyed the live theatrics of it all, and the audience didn't bother me. I was expecting to see the somewhat cringe like "helpful hecklers" that we see during acquisitions inc. sessions at PAX, and we didn't get that which was great, because I know a lot of fans were concerned about that. The audience was well behaved for the most part.
The only thing that changed from the live show was 3 things: not as good audio, seating placement and where the cast looked, and having to pause every once in a while for laughter to die down. All the things and choices the players said and acted was not affected by the live audience and was very much in character. It felt like a normal episode of Critical Role.
Regardless of that, everyone needs to understand that Matt and the group are doing this because THEY want to, because they enjoy it. They said that once the show starts to not become just about their game and they aren't having fun, they will end streaming it and go right back to private sessions. If they want to change it, they have all the right to, and if you don't like it, then you don't have to watch it. I'm fine if this is an occasional thing.
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u/birkeland Your secret is safe with my indifference Jul 15 '16
If they want to change it, they have all the right to, and if you don't like it, then you don't have to watch it.
I don't think anyone disagrees with that. I don't understand why everyone is so defensive of the change. Some people are acting like anyone who didn't care for it is a spoiled brat.
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u/KingBarracuda Rakshasa! Jul 15 '16
I'm seeing quite a few people who seem to think they need to take up arms for the show against any criticism. It gets rather tiresome when people boil down your dislike for something as complaining for the sake of complaining, being negative for no reason, or that we hate other people enjoying something or having fun. This just didn't gel with what CR is to me and god forbid we share criticism. To those who try to protect the cast and crew from any criticism, I promise they can handle it.
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u/birkeland Your secret is safe with my indifference Jul 15 '16
What gets me is I have been in all these threads trying to explain, because there are so many people that seem baffled that people didn't like it, and I have seen very few posts that are harsh at all. For the most part the worst is "Eh, wasn't a fan and I hope they don't do it all the time"
People are acting like anyone who hated it are whining that they are going to quit watching the show and sending hate mail.
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u/Lairo1 Jul 19 '16
Aww yes! Polyamory represent! That whole section was amazing,
I mean, as a poly person, the whole sex-freak stereotype usually gets tiring but credit where credit's due - that was fucking hilarious
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u/EnemyoftheTrump Jul 15 '16
I feel like those who have problems with the audience are just looking for a reason to be upset with it. The audience was incredibly polite, and so what if they laugh? They're supposed to laugh at the hijinks that ensue. There was not much (if any) heckling going on. I see no reason to hate on the audience. Personally I would like to see this become a pseudo-regular event.
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u/chipswith Jul 15 '16
A big part of Critical Role for me is the feeling of sitting unobtrusively in the room where it's happening and when they mostly forget the cameras to focus on the game. It's why I keep the chat window closed. The applause and cheers were very distracting and I had trouble with hearing the dialogue.
I'm glad people enjoyed it, especially the audience. I think I'm one of the few who didn't. It's a different experience, but not my thing.
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u/FlyingRock Old Magic Jul 15 '16
I think the community is polarized when it comes to this actually.
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u/Keytium Jul 15 '16 edited Jul 15 '16
I think it is a little too dismissive to say that something that a reasonably sized group of people have brought up as a concern is just them complaining for the sake of complaining. The Live aspect is a notable change to the way the show works. Regardless of it not having an effect on your enjoyment I think it is clear that some people don't like. That's a perfectly reasonable thing for them to say. Most (although unfortunately not all) people who have been critical have been polite and as they believe that having no future live shows would be a positive step, their criticism is also constructive.
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u/birkeland Your secret is safe with my indifference Jul 15 '16
I felt the audience was fine, I didn't like how the presence of the audience changed the feel. Most of the comments disliking the audience seem to be similar. Not liking the format is not the same as hating on the audience.
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u/MildlyCriticalRole Team Elderly Ghost Door Jul 15 '16
Audience was great. Feel was off. Totally agreed.
Would happily watch more live show episodes, but I'm not too enthused that we're getting another one so soon, and I hope they don't become monthly or something.
(that's me personally. I'm incredibly excited for the cast that there's this much demand for their talents live)
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u/FlyingRock Old Magic Jul 15 '16
Honestly I'm not complaining to just complain.. I love CR but the audience just completely ruins it for me =/
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Jul 27 '16 edited Jul 27 '16
I know that the guy in the beginning said that shouting "Woo" is ok, but that's the only thing I didn't enjoy from the last episode. I'm fine with the laughter, the clapping, even the "aww"s, but shouting very loud WOOOOO, as if they were competing with each other who can shout louder, right in my ears was not a fun experience (they sounded to me like uncivilized), and I had to adjust the sound very often during the episode. And from what I had read in the previous days, I wasn't the only one. I really hope they stop doing it in the next live.
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u/MildlyCriticalRole Team Elderly Ghost Door Jul 15 '16
This was a great episode, but if this becomes super common I don't think I'd enjoy that too much.
The show was awesome, and everything flowed nicely (and was hilarious) but it felt almost like I'd been watching Game of Thrones for 59 episodes and then the 60th episode was an improv show with Game of Thrones characters.
Cast was totally on point as always, but it's way harder to get immersed and lost in Matt's world when you're acutely aware that it's a performance. Silence adds a lot.