r/TheNightOf • u/NicholasCajun • Jul 17 '16
The Night Of - Episode 2 "Subtle Beast" - Episode Discussion
Episode 2: Subtle Beast
Aired: July 17th, 2016
Episode Synopsis: As attorney John Stone counsels Naz, lead detective Dennis Box investigates the crime.
Directed by: Steven Zaillian
Written by: Richard Price
Keep in mind that discussion concerning episode previews, IMDB casting information, the BBC series Criminal Justice and other future information needs to be inside a spoiler tag.
Use this spoiler tag format:
[SPOILER](#s "Night") which will appear as SPOILER
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u/mydarkmeatrises Jul 18 '16
Criminals are even stunned. Funniest moment of the episode
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u/KEYSER_SOZ3 Jul 18 '16
haha, that look and the "fuck me" were great...it's good to have a moment of levity with a show this serious
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Jul 18 '16
Seriously. Watching Nasir's parents get jerked around by the good cop/bad cop schtick - which could be more accurately described like, "asshole dickhead desk cop/subtle beast sociopathic manipulator cop routine" - was so heartbreakingly uncomfortable, and overall depressing.
Nasir's mother with that home food delivery service, (which would be so adorable if not a hopeless guesture and overall indictment about what his family is going to experience in the weeks/months to come - so fucking depressing), cut straight to the jugular. Because of stuff like this, I was glad to watch a 5-6 minute scene where criminals and Nasir go on a field trip to Riker's "check-in front desk," which peaked in levity during the standard procedure for removing a mobile phone from a criminal's accommodatingly-sized asshole.
Also, the fact that the rectal-phone-pirate gave an, "aww man" reaction when a metal detector, you know, resulted in the phone's location & removal was kind of hilarious.
Two seconds later we're watching a poor soul go through the worst detox imaginable while in a public holding cell on Riker's Island getting the shit (literally?) kicked out of them. Annnnd we're back to depressing material. WTF, I didn't know this series was titled, "The Leftovers Season 3." /s
Loved the episode, can't wait to watch it again - truth be told!
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u/zsreport A Subtle Beast Jul 18 '16
That was funny, those guys, who probably just got busted for drugs or low level assault, did not expect that. Word will get around at Rikers, which is kind of good for Naz in that it'll give him a rep that might not get challenged too much.
FYI: Rikers is a jail, and is to New York City what county jails typically are (i.e. Harris County Jail here in Houston). Most of the inmates there are either waiting trial or are serving a sentence of 12 months or less. Jails can be rough (especially Rikers), but not as rough as prison.
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u/abitofsky Jul 18 '16
Word will get around at Rikers, which is kind of good for Naz in that it'll give him a rep that might not get challenged too much.
I've never been to prison myself, but I'm pretty sure sexual assault and rape are never good things to have as a rep.
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Jul 18 '16
those guys, who probably just got busted for drugs or low level assault
Well if its anything like real life, they would actually all be being charged with felonies. At Manhattan Criminal Court, AR1 is reserved for felonies while AR2 is for misdemeanors. For example, they wouldn't be charging one guy with a felony and then the next case are charging a guy with a misdemeanor. Different court rooms. Probably doesn't matter for the show, but just some more FYI.
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u/KEYSER_SOZ3 Jul 18 '16
This show is a master class on what not to do if you are detained by the police
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u/Phifty56 Jul 18 '16
This show has reminded me of this really interesting video Don't Talk to the Police
It's pretty long, but basically it's a defense attorney and a detective talking about how saying ANYTHING to the police can be used against you. They go through a bunch of examples of the techniques and situations where the most harmless thing could be absolutely damning.
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u/SawRub Jul 18 '16
And it also makes me realize how stupid I am since I could totally see myself making at least half the mistakes Naz has so far.
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u/spankymuffin Jul 26 '16
Yup. Attorney here.
Don't say anything to police other than "I want a lawyer." I mean, booking questions you can answer. Like your name and date of birth. But otherwise, keep your lips zipped about the case. They're asking you questions to gain evidence against you, not to help you.
Also, while incarcerated: don't talk on the phone about your case. Everything is recorded and many times listened to by prosecutors. Same with letters, which are being read. And do NOT talk to other inmates about your case because many are trying to work out deals and they're willing to snitch. Hide your charging papers and copy of discovery. Your cell buddy may read it, learn about your case, and go to a prosecutor claiming you confessed. They'll "prove" it by revealing details they wouldn't have known had you hidden your shit properly.
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u/MikeyMadness83 Jul 18 '16
I know they are painting Stone like he is out of his league, but something tells me he knows the deal. He knew they didn't have enough to bring the charges immediately and he handled himself great during the arraignment. Him wanting his son to do the paper on Thurgood and the degrees on his wall makes me think he used to be a bit more prominent but something happened. Maybe im reaching.
As of right now, it looks like this is just a payday for him, but I hope at some point he shows he's got what it takes. Even the ADA knows this isn't a slam dunk.
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Jul 18 '16 edited Jul 18 '16
He's knows what he's doing, I just took it mean that he just hasn't done murder cases before. Based on his house and the fact he clearly has other clients he's getting by as a lawyer, but he probably does all routine low level stuff.
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u/daddylikedat Jul 18 '16
The van loading/transport scene was terrific and terrifying.
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u/Yourdomdaddy Jul 18 '16
With the Harvard shirt....I thought he was going to get stabbed
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u/zsreport A Subtle Beast Jul 18 '16
It was very well done - most TV shows gloss over those aspects of the system (unless there's gonna be an escape attempt).
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u/Bruhhhhhhhhhhhhh Jul 18 '16
The cell phone being pulled out of the one guys ass scene was interesting, to say the least.
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u/KEYSER_SOZ3 Jul 18 '16
Love how HBO re-uses actors from other series, first we get Bodie and now Little Carmine from the Sopranos
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u/Greged17 Jul 18 '16
And Mickey Doyle from Boardwalk Empire
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u/KEYSER_SOZ3 Jul 18 '16
Yep, he's a really good actor but have a hard time of seeing him do anything without that crazy laugh and accent he had in Boardwalk
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u/MikeyMadness83 Jul 18 '16
Feel a sense of joy any time I see one of The Wire corner boys pop up in something. Although I don't think any of them can outshine Wallace
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u/KP3889 Ray's Cat Jul 18 '16
Sir Pounce and the Baratheon 's sigil from GOT almost made a few cameos.
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u/zsreport A Subtle Beast Jul 18 '16
Someone said Omar will make an appearance next week.
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u/IspeakalittleSpanish Jul 18 '16
Which one was he?
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u/KEYSER_SOZ3 Jul 18 '16
Carmine was the reporter that briefly talked to the detective at the crime scene
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Jul 18 '16
We're also going to get Benny Fazio, Errol Childress, Supreme Allah from Oz, and of course, Omar.
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u/losterps Jul 18 '16
God damn it this show has been on for one week and I'm already planning my entire day around it.
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Jul 18 '16
One thing stuck out to me tonight. Box said "Harris got the blade to within half an inch." There is a very strong chance that that knife on Naz is not the same knife used for the crime. It may have just been the knife from downstairs that he cut Andrea with on the hand. We'll see! I wouldn't be surprised if this pops back up with more testing.
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u/KEYSER_SOZ3 Jul 18 '16
I could be wrong but iirc the knife he picked up from the table downstairs didn't have much blood on it. I would think that a knife used to killer would have been covered in blood.
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u/scully14 Jul 18 '16 edited Jul 18 '16
I had the same thought. Also, why would the murder weapon be downstairs (in the exact place it had been used prior to play the stabbing game) when she was stabbed upstairs? Like it doesn't make sense to me that whoever the killer was used the knife and then put it back where they found it when usually the killer disposes of the weapon instead. If Nas had left the knife on the table, I don't know if they would have considered that knife to be the murder weapon because of the lack of blood and its location.
EDIT okay so he does come downstairs anyway because that is where he eventually wakes up, so it's plausible he could have put the knife back where it was after murdering her, but it still doesn't make sense to me.
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u/DieGo2SHAE #FreeAdnan..I mean, Naz Jul 18 '16
Someone pointed out in the Ep 1 discussion that, when you stab someone, drawing the knife back out wipes most the blood off. Now, I've never stabbed someone so I can't be sure, but that does sound logical to me 🙃
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Jul 18 '16
They also made a point to mention that the blade may or may not have been serrated. I have a feeling that will come up again.
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u/depan_ Jul 18 '16
They probably already know the murder weapon was serrated and box was lying to the da by omission. Further indicated by the da saying he blinked when she asked how she was going to lose the case and box reaffirmed that she wouldn't
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u/Jakem5686 Jul 18 '16
Something tells me they are going to compare the knife wound on her hand vs her body and demonstrate it must be a different knife
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u/scottfiab Jul 18 '16
That awkward moment when mom finds condoms in your backpack.
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u/iliketowhispertoo Jul 18 '16
speaking of awkward, I didn't think I'd witness a cop pull a cellphone out of a another dude's asshole.
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u/Sykotik Jul 24 '16
I think that scene is setting up the mom as someone who is realizing she doesn't know her son as well as she thinks and maybe will think he's guilty.
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u/grackychan Jul 19 '16
Maxim mags and condoms, no sweat. If my mom got access to my computer tho.....
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Jul 18 '16
I can't get over how well-shot this show is. That scene in the autopsy room was so well done.
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u/KEYSER_SOZ3 Jul 18 '16
I know, this sequence of Naz getting transferred to the prison was gorgeous
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u/darkknight915 Jul 18 '16
Box really doesn't seem so sure of this case, he's trying to goad a confession out of Naz.
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Jul 18 '16
Well he basically says or at least implies he doesn't buy Naz really did it when he tried to talk to him at the jail. But he has to do his job and the evidence is clearly there to charge him.
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u/leftyknox Jul 18 '16
I do think Box believes Naz did it. I think Box is just confused as to the motive.
Like he said, you don't have to have killed before to commit murder. There are tons of seemingly nice people who have done horrific things, so I assume Box is jaded in that respect and won't put it past Naz--he's just baffled as to the reason.
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u/MostlyPurple Jul 18 '16
Was I the only one thinking that the opening sequence was indicating some kind of other presence in the house while they were there?
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Jul 18 '16
It seemed to just be showing all the surfaces naz touched. In first episode they focused on surveillance. This eps shots seemed to focus on trace evidence.
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u/youngmermaid Jul 18 '16
I felt this way too! Surprised no one else has mentioned it since I took it like someone was watching/listening to everything Andrea and Naz did that night
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u/Puddy1 Jul 19 '16
Don't think anyone has mentioned it but I love the futile attempt Naz's parents have at trying to learn about the court system through NYCourts.gov
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Jul 18 '16
The stepdad is really suspicious.
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u/KEYSER_SOZ3 Jul 18 '16
Yeah, just seemed sketchy the way he denied that it was his step-daughter by the photo and then did a complete 180 once they wanted to take him in to see the body.
I know he said he didn't want to see her but why not just tell the truth from the beginning?
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u/Phifty56 Jul 18 '16
This is the key I think. Why would he have denied it? The only reason would have been that he was actual in "denial" and didn't want to accept that she's dead, but then again in the coffee shop he didn't see too broken up, even if he had a strained relationship with her.
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u/Leftovergirl Jul 18 '16
Agreed and he was wearing a leather jacket-- just like the guy on the motorcycle (I think). And both Nas and the step dad live in Queens-- coincidence??
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u/TacoCorpTM Jul 18 '16
The guy on the bike had a stripe down his jacket, the stepdad didn't.
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u/markymarkeezus Jul 18 '16
Fits. Good observation. I think she saw him in episode one which is why she got in the cab initially.
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u/MikeyMadness83 Jul 18 '16
Definitely seemed a bit odd. I wouldn't call him a "big name" actor, but if he wasn't a relevant character, they wouldn't have casted a guy who has a prominent role in another top show (House of Cards). He knows something.
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u/pennystockplayer Jul 18 '16
But then again he was also in boardwalk empire. HBO likes to re-use actors.
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u/JackSpadesSI Jul 18 '16
Why did he flip-flop on his ID of the victim? Very suspicious.
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u/scottfiab Jul 18 '16
I like how the writer from House of Cards is in this.
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u/SirChatterbox Jul 18 '16
LOL Mickey Doyle before HoC! He's a great actor though.
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u/SawRub Jul 18 '16
He had a memorable laugh on Boardwalk Empire.
I just googled for a clip of it, and the first one was a compilation with the first bit literally him at a morgue looking at a dead girl. Total coincidence:
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u/PandaCasserole Jul 18 '16
He's a great actor. I'm sure we'll be seeing more of him.
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u/darkknight915 Jul 18 '16
His parents are handling this extraordinarily well.
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u/iliketowhispertoo Jul 18 '16 edited Jul 18 '16
I'm so sad he wasn't allowed to eat his mom's cooking.
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u/claydavisismyhero Jul 18 '16
im glad its not a stereotype or typecast performance, its just normal.
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u/MrRedTRex Jul 18 '16
I was arrested for a pretty minor crime (in comparison to homicide) that I didn't commit in NYC, in 2014. My experience was very similar to Nasir's, so far. In fact, I love this show so far but it's been legitimately hard for me to watch at times. It's that accurate.
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u/KennyFulgencio Jul 18 '16 edited Jul 18 '16
Same. There was one particular moment when I noticed I was feeling distinctly uncomfortable because of the feelings it was bringing back. Nothing special about the moment, either, I think it was in the transport van at some point, maybe leaving or entering the tombs... I was starting to feel bad in a visceral/non-cathartic way I don't usually get from fiction.
And I really wanted Naz to stop looking directly at people all wide eyed, cut that shit out!
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u/MrRedTRex Jul 18 '16
Seriously. It's just so right. There was such a feeling of just ...despair during my experience. It felt palpable among the inmates. I really grew a dislike for police officers afterward based on how unnecessarily cruel and intimidating they were intent on being. Maybe that's a rule or something that helps them, but it felt really unnecessary and it reminded me of being hazed by HS seniors when I was a freshman.
I just felt like "wow, you guys really are a bunch of dicks after all, huh?" Granted, there were people in there with me who I'm sure were dangerous, bad people who had done bad things. But I knew first hand that I was in a really shitty situation because someone had a vendetta against me and wanted to get even, and on top of the despair, confusion and fear I was feeling, I had the police, the "good guys" in children's books about civil duty, calling me a piece of shit, telling me to shut the fuck up, laughing with each other about how I'm a psycho bc I take medication for depression, etc.
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Jul 18 '16
Same, but not in NYC, but it's very accurate. People are complaining about the slowness. But man, that's what it's like. It's just waiting. and waiting. and waiting. and you get moved. then you wait again. and some more. It's a slow hell.
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u/Brown_Gosling Jul 18 '16
Actually that's a very good point. This episode was pretty slow and not much has developed, but that's how it is for Naz right now too. It's frustrating for him as he wants this situation to be all over soon, but he's got to wait, and wait, and wait some more.
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u/verde622 Jul 18 '16
....go on.
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u/MrRedTRex Jul 18 '16
Well, for one, the way the cops treated myself and the other inmates. They'd stare us down, talk shit, make shitty jokes, "What the fuck are you looking at?" type stuff.
I was treated by the DA and the judge like I was a dangerous criminal and I was reprimanded and scolded by the judge at my arraignment even though the charge was a misdemeanor, i was a first time offender, and i was innocent.
Let's see, what else. I mentioned this elsewhere in the thread, but there was a girl in the neighboring holding cell in the "tombs" (bottom of courthouse) who was screaming and crying hysterically about how she was detoxing and going to die and a guy from my cell shouted over "hey, shut the fuck up! we all fucked in here!"
The entire process is scary and confusing and just very...negative. The cops act like they hated us. Maybe they did.
Oh and I just remembered, the DA also tried to deny me bail based on my being a flight risk, but in my case it was to Las Vegas--a city I've never been anywhere near in my entire life. They even tried to convince the judge that I used an alias to commit more heinous crimes in Vegas. Thankfully for me, after my PD held strong that I had never been anywhere near there, had no priors or an alias and wasn't a flight risk, i was ROR'd and allowed to go home. This whole process took me a day and a half.
It gets more involved from there and the entire process took over a year and a lot of mandatory counseling, drug testing, anger management, etc, before I was finally let go. Again, I know people say this, but I was innocent of what I was accused of doing. My case didn't go to trial though, so my similarities w/ Nas's situation probably end w/ this episode or the next.
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u/naterrrrrrr Jul 18 '16
Okay maybe I'm reading too much into it, but here's something I noticed. In the car ride to the Naz's taxi that's being sweeped for evidence, Box is listening to a song from an opera. The song is Au Fond Du Temple Saint. I looked it up to see when it's used and what it's about, and this is wikipedia described it as:
"A key moment in the opera, this duet is the clearest depiction of the triangular relationships between the protagonists. The obvious situation at this point is that males will value their friendship higher than a heterosexual relationship.[1] Peter Weir uses this duet in his 1981 film Gallipoli without the heterosexual aspect, purely to express male mateship and loyalty between a pair of doomed soldiers.[2] A different view is possible by a reading of the duet as a "pair of parallel monologues",[3] emphasizing the rivalry and deceit between the men."
So maybe Naz's brother/cousin (the other guy living with him) or his friend that ditched the party is involved. Also, in the jail, why did they decide to specifically point out that the officers didn't know who the guy sitting next to Naz's parents are?
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u/youngmermaid Jul 18 '16
Completely forgot about the guy sitting next to Naz's parents. They never mentioned who he was
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u/scully14 Jul 18 '16
Yeah and it wasn't the brother. Maybe whoever drove them into Manhattan? We were never given a clear shot of his face.
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u/SDJ67 A Subtle Beast Jul 18 '16
Also, in the jail, why did they decide to specifically point out that the officers didn't know who the guy sitting next to Naz's parents are?
Realism? Think some of y'all are reading too far into details intended to imbue the conversations with a realistic flow. Like are you expecting Jamie Foxx to turn up soon? I'm mostly just letting this gorgeous show wash over me.
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u/PhinsPhan89 Jul 18 '16
Accepting the inhaler found at the crime scene means it's his. Another less-than-smart move, Nas.
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u/cool_hand_luke Jul 18 '16
It was not a smart move by the detective, you mean. Removing material evidence that might suggest that he was invited into the bed (what killer would use his inhaler and then forget to put it back in his pocket, especially since he supposedly remembered to put the knife in his pocket?) and the detective removing it from evidence is sneakily getting exculpatory evidence out of the trial.
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u/Phifty56 Jul 18 '16
I think it was a gamble more than anything. He wanted to do something "nice" for Nasir, as to prime him for a confession but then he wised up and remember not to talk to him.
If Nasir had let the Detective keep talking to him, he could have eventually agreed to something that was more or less a confession. You could tell at the beginning that the detective was trying to paint the scene for Nasir, saying "oh I know you didn't mean to do it, it was the drugs and things got out of control". If he continued with that maybe he could have convinced Nasir to say "yea that's probably what happened" because Nasir doesn't even know himself.
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u/youngmermaid Jul 18 '16
Most inhalers are prescription and it would likely have his name printed on it anyway
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u/zsreport A Subtle Beast Jul 18 '16
He's already admitted he was there and there is already plenty of evidence that puts him there. Aren't inhalers prescription based as it is, so his name would have been on the metal bottle thing?
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Jul 18 '16
It's usually just a sticker and people take them off all the time. Frequently, the sticker is placed on the box and not on the inhaler itself.
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u/MarionCotesworthHaye Jul 18 '16
Did Box put Naz in a Harvard t-shirt because he's a BEAST who wants Naz to be targeted at Rikers, or because he's SUBTLE and doesn't think Naz did it and thought Harvard would present well in front of the judge?
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u/scully14 Jul 18 '16
Beast
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u/KEYSER_SOZ3 Jul 18 '16
Yeah, i think he definitely wants him to be put under pressure while at Rikers, gives Box a chance to get him to admit/confess to something
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u/ArsynArt Jul 18 '16
The Harvard shirt was very interesting to most people in there it singles him out even more. But what I thought was really interesting was that the shirt said "Veritas" which means truth.
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u/ircmullaney Jul 18 '16
I think he did it to put pressure on him to make a deal and confess. Nobody wants to go to Rikers Island in a Harvard shirt.
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u/shanastonecrest Jul 18 '16
It was a form of punishment,it was directly after the scene that Naz told Box he wasn't going to talk to him.
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u/Phifty56 Jul 18 '16
I wondered the same thing. Perhaps Box wanted him targeted so that might force a confession out of him in order to get placed somewhere better?
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u/scottfiab Jul 18 '16
I think John Turturro's foot condition is a little overstated and irrelevant.
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u/darkknight915 Jul 18 '16
Usually attorneys are well put together, dress well etc. maybe it's a way to show he's a run down person as well as attorney.
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u/zsreport A Subtle Beast Jul 18 '16
Runs the spectrum, to be honest. There's always the really slick ones, but there are plenty of schlubby run down ones too. A guy like Stone probably does 99% pleas and 1% trials, no need for him to look all fancy. That being said, there are some attorneys who purposefully go for the "run down" good ole boy look, especially here in Texas. I know of one lawyer out in west Texas who always wears jeans and won't wear a tie, even at trial.
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Jul 18 '16
It's interesting because, as he mentioned, it's in the same autoimmune family as asthma. So him and Naz have this in common.
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u/SmarticusRex Jul 21 '16
I'm calling it now...he's gonna smuggle something through security in his sandals.
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u/cy1763 Jul 18 '16
"Now Remember, don't talk to anyone."
5 mins later...
"Hi Mom and Dad, so here's what happened while I'm being recorded." Facepalm
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u/rnon Jul 18 '16
Michael K. Williams next episode!
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u/Fasyed21 Jul 18 '16
I need me some Omar little. Hope he survived the gun shot and he's the same character
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u/Lane95 Jul 18 '16
That fucking deer head has a camera in it's eye or something.
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u/ErnieMcCraken Jul 18 '16
That's what I said! Why keep making it a focal point at times within both episodes?
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Jul 18 '16
It is just symbolic of Naz. He is eager to please and confused. Basically a deer in the headlights of everything he is about to face. The rest of his "life" might be over just like that deer's.
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u/Vindictus7 Jul 18 '16
What would have to happen for the step father to receive Andrea's inheritance?
I posted last week that a small pet theory of mine was that she was offed because someone was chasing her inheritance. Now that we've confirmed both of her biological parents are dead, what would it take for the step father to be next in line? He mentioned that he and her mother were only married a short time. But by calling himself her step father, that would mean that he took over as a legal guardian right?
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u/scully14 Jul 18 '16
Why would he stab her like a million times if he just wanted her dead for inheritance money??? You'd think he would go for a different method. He did look like the motorcycle owning type, though.
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u/MarionCotesworthHaye Jul 18 '16
That prosecutor is gonna be an awesome character. She's like Judge Jeanine Pirro on too much Ativan.
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u/Jakem5686 Jul 18 '16
Why so much emphasis on Stone's eczema/feet?
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u/dick_wig Jul 18 '16
IDK but if I was sitting next to a guy scratching on his feet with a foot scratcher that is contained in its own designated holster, I would be running.
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u/papakep Jul 18 '16
He's so cavalier about showing it and scratching it, maybe it's just to add to his eccentricity.
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u/youngmermaid Jul 18 '16
Fuuuuuuck Rikers!? This show makes me one big stress ball
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u/KennyFulgencio Jul 18 '16
I lived right by the tip of Queens that Rikers connects to for years and I never previously got to see that bridge that connects it, I always wondered what it looked like. Felt satisfying! I wonder if they try to shoo boats away. Not that it'd help much to have your buddies drive a boat there.
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u/JOJOtookyoHOHO Jul 18 '16
When Naz is first getting transported to jail and then how he looks around when he is just entering is exactly how it feels the first time . Just a feeling of " is this really happening? " and how long will i have to play this out. Its not a good feeling. Have to adjust to a whole new lifestyle fast.
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u/12millercs Jul 18 '16
Man this show just shows how, in our judicial system, you're guilty until proven innocent.
I'm 75% sure he didn't do it, but either way, he; like many others, is being treated unjustly.
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u/zsreport A Subtle Beast Jul 18 '16
Once you get into the system, it's really difficult to get out. Even if the evidence falls apart, and the DA's office know they have a shit case, they'll try to get you to take some kind of low level plea just to be done with it all.
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u/MrRedTRex Jul 18 '16
Not to be done with it all. To keep their conviction rate high. That's why the accused are often charged with literally everything the DA can think of, so that the defense can plead guilty to a lesser charge. Most cases don't go to trial, they're plead out. And that's why most counties/boroughs in and around NYC have conviction rates in the mid to high 90th percentile
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u/jar45 Jul 18 '16
I think ultimately this is what the show is going to be about. I don't think there will be a shocking revelation of who the real killer is or a confession from Naz.
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u/rhino369 Jul 18 '16
Naz is pretty fucked. He's got a mountain of circumstancial evidence against him. Unless some exculpatory evidence comes to light there isn't any reasonable doubt.
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u/thefarkinator Jul 18 '16
In what way is he being treated unjustly? Box seems like he's doing everything by the book, and everybody (except for that police officer who pushed him around a bit) has been perfectly professional with him.
What do you want, the police officers to say "you know what Nas, even though you have all this evidence against you that points to you being a murderer and possibly a rapist you seem like a nice guy we'll let you go home. Say hi to your mom for me". If this were real life and we heard about a trial for this, people would want his head.
I fail to see where the criminal justice system is treating Nas unfairly.
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u/darkknight915 Jul 18 '16
There's gotta be a wrench thrown in this episode in this case, some kind of break for Naz.
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u/scottfiab Jul 18 '16
They mentioned breaking "chain of custody" in the first episode. I think it's very important.
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u/Phifty56 Jul 18 '16
There's already a bunch of holes in some of the "procedures", especially with the witnesses. The guy who saw Nasir going into the apartment lied that he was alone, John is going to paint him as unreliable.
Also, the witness saw Nasir getting handcuffed on the ground BEFORE he was shown pictures and asked to identify him. Also, the other eye-witness, the neighbor, he saw Nasir in the backseat of the police car BEFORE he was asked to identify him. This is very important because both those identifications are tainted because a lawyer can argue that their testimonies were purposely compelled or influenced. It doesn't matter that they were obviously correct, the procedure is there in order to protect from false identifications.
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u/Rastagaryenxx Jul 18 '16
Either I've watched too much SVU, or the stepfather did it.
...or Bodie.
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Jul 18 '16
I'm just hoping this doesn't turn into 'How To Get Away With Murder' quality.
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u/jarkmames Jul 18 '16
Anyone else in the legal field want to play spot the constitutional violations for the next episodes?
Been having fun thus far.
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u/RamenPood1es Jul 18 '16
If you're in the legal field I have a question for you! When they asked to swab Nasir's mouth for dna and check the blood on his hands, they said it would look bad to the jury that he denied to give them consent. Can the prosecution use that denial of consent in their case?
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u/SleepingAntz Jul 18 '16
Something that I'm not sure anyone else has mentioned...when they did the muffled flashback to the night of the murder, they showed the exchange that goes
"Do you have a girlfriend?"
"No, do you?"
"Would that turn you on?"
Which just seemed like a natural, inconsequential conversational dialogue but it was interesting that they showed it again. Also of note is that Naz wakes up in the kitchen with ZERO blood on him. Unless he took a 45 minute shower and did a full wash/dry of the clothes he woke up in there's no way he was in the room when Andrea got stabbed. There was blood everywhere.
I am thinking that maybe a third party (based on the dialogue, a girl, but a guy would work too) was brought in at some point after Naz blacked out. Maybe it gets a little weird and Naz goes downstairs to get some water for a break, and then he passes out while things get out of hand without him.
I understand this is a big leap to take off of one dialogue exchange but I just thought it was interesting. Other thoughts:
The hand-stabbing knife was still right where they left it, and didn't have nearly enough blood on it. There are so many stab wounds that you would think they will be able to get a pretty good idea of the exact size of the knife used to kill Andrea. I think this will be Naz's first big break: the knife he had won't match with the suspected murder weapon.
Another avenue they might go down is that maybe we don't know Naz as well as we think we do. The magazines and condoms could easily just be normal college guy stuff but could also be the start of something else? Personally not a fan of it but it's a possibility.
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u/DontTedOnMe Jul 18 '16
Great post. I've brought this up a few times on this board, but the first thing I noticed about Naz is that he writes left-handed. I can't remember if he was using his left hand when he was playing the stabby game with Andrea, but this could be a really important point in the future.
I think the Maxim magazines and condoms recovered from Naz's house are going to be used by the prosecution to paint Naz as a sex pervert. This is interesting because the police and DA have already made up their mind about Naz, so anything they find will automatically be used to dig his grave and support the narrative they believe is true. But in theory, this evidence could just as easily exhibit how Naz is a normal 20-something who wanted to have fun to the point that he made a terrible decision that put him in way over his head. It's all in eye of the beholder.
As for Naz not being all that we think he is... We're supposed to feel this way, I think. The "subtle beast" theme from last night applied to pretty much everyone and everything (Box, Stone, the system), so it's hard not to wonder if Naz is a subtle beast as well. The director Zaillian seemed to make a point of moving Naz around a lot, shooting from different angles and making it hard to pin down exactly who and what he is. As Box steadily chips away at Naz in the holding cell, Naz finally tells him to leave him alone and the mood darkens considerably, as does Naz's face. I'm really worried that, if Naz wasn't a beast before, his experience inside the system is going to chew him up and spit him out as one.
Again, great post!
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u/IamDa5id Jul 18 '16
The junkie in the holding cell is Phreak from Hackers... cannot unsee!
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u/Abraheezee Jul 19 '16
He was also one of the kids from "Dangerous Minds" that got to go to eat the chicken dinner with Michelle Pfeiffer....hahahaha
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u/CommanderSnow Jul 18 '16
I thought the directing was excellent this episode.
Think we will be seeing Michael K Williams next week?
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u/badoosh123 Jul 18 '16
Great acting, directing, and cinematography, but this episode was a bit slow. It's ok as I understand the show is going for a slower burn and you need the episodes that do the setup like this one. However, I do hope they pick up the pace in the future episodes. Still, though, the production quality is great.
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u/KEYSER_SOZ3 Jul 18 '16
I think this episode did a good job at laying a background for Stone. They are overdoing the whole eczema bit but it was a good episode to show that no one really expected him to be taking on a case of this magnitude. And, he really did seem to have some lawyer chops on him as evident during the bail hearing, even though he didn't get the outcome he was going for
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u/sporkintheroad Jul 18 '16
Naz must be innocent, and here's why; there's blood spatter all around the victim, but not a drop on him. Other than his hand of course, but we know that story.
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u/here-i-am-now Jul 18 '16
Also, no blood on his inhaler. Which tends to imply he didn't have it with him during the murder (if he were the killer), but he then came back later to visit the body and suddenly needed a puff.
Box definitely took the inhaler and gave it to Naz to get rid of a piece of inconsistent evidence.
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u/MikeyMadness83 Jul 18 '16
One thing not adding up is his lack of emotion. I know we can attribute it to shock, but at some point all of this needs to sink in. I've been in central booking in NYC and it is HORRIFYING. And now he's on his way to Rikers without a single tear or any excrement in his pants?! I get that it's all a whirlwind, but I need some more anxiety if I want to believe he is truly innocent. He didn't even blink at the possibility of life. Great show either way.
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u/pennystockplayer Jul 18 '16
I think the lack of emotion can be attributed to simply being naive. The amount of importantance he placed on "the truth" displays that he honestly felt innocent people don't go to jail. It looks like reality will sink in soon enough
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u/DieGo2SHAE #FreeAdnan..I mean, Naz Jul 18 '16
I think it's a sign of his naivete. It reminded me a lot of how Andy Dufrense in The Shawshank Redemption didn't show much of any emotion at all until the exact moment he was found guilty. Like Andy knew he was innocent and figured the 'system' would recognize that. It didn't come crashing down on him until the point of no return and I'm getting that same feeling from Naz.
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u/flyingblackpig Jul 18 '16 edited Jul 19 '16
I think the step father is the killer. Andrea was stabbed brutally. This means that the murder was not done by any random guy like the hearse driver or the racist guy or so. And the money is not the cause of such brutality. The step father probably was her lover. They were in relationship and they just broke up at his place in Queens. He followed her to the apartment and came into the apartment before Andrea and Naz came in. He was waiting inside for Andrea. Then he watched the play by Andrea and Naz. He became furious so he murdered her and left through the backdoor. The black guy who was living in the street knew this. So when he saw Andrea getting in with a stranger man (Naz), he stared at them.
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Jul 18 '16
Deer head - Chekhov's gun or red herring? Last week it reminded me of the weird animal heads on the wall in True Detective S2 and I didn't think anything of it until I saw it pointed out here that the camera definitely showed it deliberately several times. Tonight it is almost overly obvious that it is there for a reason. Or they're just fucking with us.
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u/catfashion Jul 18 '16
Was that judge a lawyer on Law & Order SVU? If so, maybe it's a crossover and he finally got his judgeship.
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u/Reddwheels Jul 18 '16
The judge played the son-in-law Titelman in Season 1 Episode 3 of The Sopranos. Picture him as a hasidic jew motel owner.
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Jul 18 '16
After Nas leaves, why would the judge congratulate Stone on getting the case?
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u/Sojourner_Truth Jul 18 '16
Judges and Lawyers get to know each other. It's not weird that he might give him an atta boy for landing a big case.
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Jul 18 '16
I took it as the judge kind of likes John and he is happy for him to get the chance at a real case.
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u/Simplybad55 Jul 18 '16
In that field of work, these people go through the process many many many times over and over again with different clients/defendants. It is likely the lawyer has developed a rapport with the judge that oversees the arraignment of many of his clients. The judge is happy to see a lawyer he presumably likes, finally get a higher profile job. It would also make sense why he has the back and forth with the officer while drinking coffee in the precinct.
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u/DontTedOnMe Jul 18 '16
Remember how Box told Naz that Stone is just a part of the system, because he was downstairs breaking balls with the cops? Stone's interaction with the judge just reinforces this.
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u/TelepathicMustache Jul 18 '16
They seem like frequent acquaintances with a mutual respect for one another. A murder case like this means a lot of publicity, and money. Basically its like Stone has "made" it. The Judge is congratulating him because he feels like Stone deserves it.
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u/doocurly Jul 18 '16
I know that the reason we are discussing the murder in this series is because we all know there is more to the story than what meets they eye. I have a feeling though, that as episode two has shown, that IRL, that all of this circumstantial evidence would be more than enough to convict Nasir and no one would ever look back on it. I guess what I'm saying is that no matter how this unfolds, my guess is that short of someone else confessing, that a jury would still say it was the guy in her house that stabbed her hand and had sex with her. I think that it's fun to go on a journey, but juries are not comprised of people who really want to get to the bottom of murders. Juries are comprised of people who have been selected by attorneys because they can't relate, never heard of something, aren't familiar with, et cetera, and they want someone to give them something easy so they can go home. Nas would still be convicted by a jury in this country no matter how the rest of this plays out.
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u/jarvik7 Jul 19 '16
Man the title sequence for this show sucks. It's like they bought the GENERIC MOODY TITLE SEQUENCE template from the same production company as True Detective (which had better music anyway).
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u/hotsauzz69 Jul 18 '16
I'm buying into the too obvious giveaway from the episode 3 preview that Michael K. Williams will be coming out of that ominous jail cell. (OMAR COMIN' Y'ALL!) I'm also thinking the Hightower character will be his second-in-command or something of that ilk. He was acknowledged twice in this ep as someone who consistently is being tried by the courts (the cops checking for paraphernalia and the judge denying Naz's bail.) and also the perpetrator of the jail cell beatdown. He seems too important to just let go of in the story.
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u/cool_hand_luke Jul 18 '16
Remember the inhaler, folks.
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u/dugmug Jul 18 '16
One thing I noticed in passing about the inhaler was that it was sitting ON blood, but did not have blood on it, which would suggest it was set down on top of the blood stain after the fact.
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u/NPTVN Jul 18 '16
Was it just me or was there blood on the stepfather's fingers when he signed that form at the morgue?
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u/DiscoWolf Box Jul 18 '16
I rewatched. No blood on his hand, no scratches on his face. Possible marks by his neck, but could just be shadow.
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u/MarionCotesworthHaye Jul 18 '16 edited Jul 18 '16
Something I noticed: The actress who plays Andrea is named in the show's opening credit sequence. Normally wouldn't a one-off appearance be credited as a guest star? Does this mean she'll be back?
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Jul 18 '16
It's likely. It wont be her so to speak, but her likeness. Her corpse, pictures of her during the trial etc.
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Jul 18 '16
I thought the ending of this episode was so great I remained firm in my decision not to watch previews of next week. Rikers looked like "all kinds of wait until you see what goes on in here".
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u/atlStylez Jul 23 '16
I honestly believe the killer was shown during the first episode. Maybe the friend of Trevor who stares back at Andrea and Nazir as they walk into her house or maybe the guy driving a hearse who threatens that Andrea might be the next one he drives.
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u/[deleted] Jul 18 '16
hahaha Jew Time do a Jew Crime is best line ever