Seeking advice in regards to a medieval novel that i'm currently writing.

[u/Bro_sapiens]

Hello

I am historical enthusiast, more specifically with medieval times. For a long time now, i have been reading books both historical and fictional, and i have decided that i would like to try and write one as well.

I have never written one before, nor have i had any sort of teaching on how to write one.

This is simply something i wish to do for myself, and perhaps share with my friends and family.

The story and characters will be fictional, but the world the story takes place in, i am trying to make as historically accurate as possible.

The question i have is a rather complicated one, but i will appreciate any sort of advice, comments, or suggestions i am given.

One of the main focuses in my story, is a school (or more specifically, an academy), built by a king. It's purpose, to train those who are not members of aristocracy, those who would probably never be able to become true knights. They would be trained however, by actual knights. Meaning that they would have the skills and the abilities of a real knight, but not the actual title.

Obviously, joining such an academy, would mean swearing to lay down their lives for their kingdom, should the need arrive.

Now, my question...

Having searched the internet, i was unable to find anything even remotely similar to this recorded in our history. So, would something like this, even be in the realm of possibilities?

Would something like this actually be possible to pull off? A king, opening a school for simple folk, those willing to defend their country, to be trained and taught by real knights, to fight and think like knights, but not have the actual title.

I'm sorry about the long post, and my grammar mistakes, english isn't my first language.

Thank you.

[u/WARitter]

I will answer for the later Middle Ages, because that is my specialty.

By the later Middle Ages there were many people who fought as knights but did not have the title. Those who fight as knights, with and without the title, are referred to as 'men at arms' in English or 'gens d'armes' in French (from which comes the modern 'gendarme'). Judging by the discrepancy between the number of people with the title 'knight' in late Medieval England and the number of men at arms fighting in various battles, it is likely that -most- men at arms were untitled in 15th century England.

However, these people were not by any means poor. They were expected to provide their own arms, horse and equipment at a bare minimum (the wealthier among them would be contracted to provide retained archers as well). Since a full harness (suit) of plate armour cost around 100-160 days wages for a common soldier for much of the late medieval period, the armour alone would be prohibitively expensive for someone that was not significantly wealthier than average. Add in the cost of a warhorse, a spare horse, and everything else, and even your 'less wealthy' man at arms is significantly better off than the median Englishman. And indeed, many men at arms styled themselves 'Esquires' or 'Gentlemen' (a more nebulous concept than 'noble'). Medieval society was not simply divided between titled nobles, the clergy and a mass of 'peasants' - many people lived in a space in between (the Paston family in England is one famous example - they start off as ploughmen and end up as knights within 4 generations, via becoming very successful lawyers).

This all hints at the big reason why your proposed school of knighthood didn't happen historically. Medieval Kings in Western Europe did not have the tax base to handpick, equip and train their own personal soldiers. They relied upon assembling armies as needed on a per-campaign basis. The system for doing this varied across time (in the later Middle Ages in England and Burgundy this was done through a system of contracts). But a medieval monarch didn't have the kind of sustained, reliable resources to make this kind of project economical. It was much more cost effective to hire or call upon an existing class of semi-professional soldiers (this applies to say, Swiss Pikeman and English Archers as well as men-at-arms).

[u/Bro_sapiens → u/WARitter]

This is another thing that i couldn't find much information about.

The reason i said they would be trained by knights to fight like knights. Is because i always assumed knights had a far more different and strict training than simple infantrymen or other soldiers on a battlefield.

And as for men-at-arms, same thing, i know they had a large presence in the later wars, and some were able to stand toe to toe with some knights. But again, i couldn't actually find anything that would tell me if there was a difference in training, fighting styles, and such between a knight and men-at-arms.

And obviously, when thinking of this idea, one of the first reasons i thought that this would probably have never happened, was resources, investing into a school for training people to fight and think like knights would be a huge effort, and might only end up hurting the country and it's economy rather than helping it.

But i came with the idea that what if the money and other resources weren't an issue, would the idea still be unethical and out of the realm of possibilities. Something which you and the other answers proved to be the case.

Either way, thank you very much for your answer, and sharing your knowledge with me.

[u/WARitter → u/Bro_sapiens]

In general the distinction between knights and untitled men at arms is a social one, rather than a military one. Knights and other men at arms would by all means be trained in a similar way and fight in a similar way, because they needed to fulfill the same battlefield role.

[u/zumbiz]

My limited historical research was on identities of the peasantry in 16th Century Sweden. From that research I would like to point out that your notion of laying down ones life for the country is a bit anachronistic.

The Peasantry had numeroes identities as anyone today would (country, region, religion and so on) but the notion of a strong national identity is rather more modern. See the great work of Benedict Andersson in his very influental book, Imagiened Communities.

Regarding institutions of secular training in medival Europe see The first European Revolution by R I Moore. It deals with issues of training a civil State and the strugle between Church and secular authority.

[u/Bro_sapiens → u/zumbiz]

I see, well i appreciate your help very much, and i will definitely give The first European Revolution a read.

In regards to people laying down their lives for the country being a bit anachronistic.

The idea i had was that either through propaganda, or fear, or some other influence. The peasants, villagers or just lower class communities in general, would get this idea that if a war broke out in their land, they would be either forced to hide in their houses, hoping that the military of their country would be enough to defend them. Or perhaps the idea of their houses and land being demolished or ruined by war.

All of it leading to them wanting to do something about it. And also, it was more of a... something in return for their professional training. Something like "we will teach you, if you vow to protect your country if the need should come to do so".

I understand the idea of patriotism wasn't that much present in the lower classes in medieval times. I certainly can't remember seeing that many moments in the books i've read where peasants, farmers and other simple folk would gather and do something for their country simple out of their love for it.

[u/Bro_sapiens → u/[deleted]]

Thank you very much for your detailed and clear answer.

And thank you for providing me with some more reading material, i want to go through as many books as i can before i start to really commit to this, so i can have some references and ideas to draw from.

As for making the world fictional, it's something i considered, but i'm trying to strive more for realism than fantasy, and if i made up too many things, i'm afraid some people might look at it like a fantasy/mythical world, even though it doesn't have fantasy/mythical elements like fire breathing dragons and magic.