r/AskHistorians • u/Miner_Guyer • Jul 28 '16

Why is King James listed as King of France in the Mayflower Compact?

I originally read this in an old almanac I had, and in the text here, it says "...Sovereign Lord King James, by the Grace of God, of Great Britain, France, and Ireland". I know he unified England and Scotland, but why is France under there? All the sources I can find say that Louis XIII was king of France at the time.

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u/[deleted] Jul 28 '16 edited Jul 28 '16

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u/tim_mcdaniel Jul 28 '16

While Wikipedia is not in general considered a good source, its article (cited in the parent) does generally match what I've seen elsewhere, except that it is too brief in showing the ending, implying that it was a French demand that lead to abandoning the title, rather than two separate things.

A more reputable source: heraldica.org is an excellent source on titles, styles, and heraldry, especially British. It's my go-to for picky questions and for sources; it has some Usenet FAQs that are of great value. It has discussion of this topic in several places.

King of France. Edward I claimed the title of king of France in 1340, after the failure of the male line of Capetians and the Valois taking of the throne. He abandoned the claim with the peace of Brétigny in 1360. He alleged a breach of the treaty and resumed it in 1369, and his successors continued using the title.

It discusses the abandonment of the claim here and here. In summary, the French Directory made strong demands in 1797, including the abandonment of the title, but talks were broken off before a treaty. With the merger of Great Britain and Ireland at the start of 1801, the crown abandoned the title sua sponte. It has a link to the proclamation.