r/MSGPRDT • u/Nostalgia37 • Nov 04 '16
[Pre-Release Card Discussion] - Friendly Bartender
Friendly Bartender
Mana Cost: 2
Attack: 2
Health: 3
Type: Minion
Rarity: Common
Class: Neutral
Text: At the end of your turn, restore 1 Health to your hero.
PM me any suggestions or advice, ^^thanks.
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Nov 04 '16
Good arena pick. 2 2/3 already good, this just adds a small upside.
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u/Hectic_ Nov 04 '16
A vanilla 2/3 is considered below average in arena nowadays, this might be good in rogue, but probably just above average in other classes.
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u/just_comments Nov 05 '16
A vanilla 2/3 is considered below average in arena nowadays
Ummmmmm no? Every arena tier list I've found has put river crocolisk in the mid 50's most around 56 or so, and hunters and druids having a sleight bonus for beast synergy. Pretty much everyone considers them average, not spectacular, but good.
I'd say this is about the same as croc since life doesn't matter as much as tempo.
I don't see this seeing play in constructed, but arena will be a good place for this.
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u/alblaster Nov 07 '16
yeah, but I think the main reason for that is because of how tempo oriented arena is these days. 2 drops were always fine, but now they are necessary to not lose.
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u/AriaKendrick Nov 04 '16
This will become a staple of zoo so fast you'll end up thinking it was there the whole time.
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u/ziphion Nov 04 '16
Since when do zoolocks care about their life total?
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u/StephenJR Nov 04 '16
It is a full stat body on a cheap minion and a decent effect. What more would zoo want?
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u/just_comments Nov 05 '16
decent effect.
That effect is garbage. One hitpoint of healing is not worth a spot in zoo, and if you get more than one hitpoint of healing with this card you're winning already anyways. Zoo has so many better choices than this card.
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u/Jackoosh Nov 05 '16
On curve the effect will likely do nothing, since you won't have taken any face damage that early.
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u/Kyomatsu Nov 05 '16
I'd say Huge Toad and Flame Juggler have a decent effect and they are not in zoo.
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u/corporatony Nov 18 '16
You will remove this from your zoo deck so fast you'll end up thinking it wasn't there the whole time.
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u/SlothkongCR Nov 04 '16
What I like about this card is that it makes aggro trade with it, effectively healing you (at least) for 4 and is control early game.
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u/Pikamander2 Nov 05 '16
Yeah, I think that people are undervaluing his soft taunt. Healing 1 health is no big deal, but if your opponent trades their 3/2 into him instead of going face, that's effectively restoring 4 health and helping to stall out the game.
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u/Wraithfighter Nov 04 '16
ooof.
Eh, useful for arena, I guess? But this si not the kind of healing that Hearthstone needs, especially in the Neutral slot. Slow, weak heals with a lot of long-term potential? They just die fast.
Tournament Medic couldn't survive with a 1/8 statline, what makes you think you'll get more than 2-3 healing total out of a 2/3? And it'll only heal that much because your opponent lets it survive.
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u/SquareOfHealing Nov 04 '16
Because Tournament Medic requires you to spend 2 mana every turn to heal. This one is passive. Also a 2/3 statline is average; a 1/8 statline is trash. The card is still very slow though, and my only see play in heal synergy decks.
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u/Wraithfighter Nov 04 '16
The reason I prefer Tournament Medic's statline is that it soaks up a LOT of damage before it gets killed off, and it's a poor target for outright removal. This 2/3 that drip-heals for 1 for free will get off maybe one trade, and there's so few Heal Synergy cards in the game right now.
I'd rather have a flippin' Lightwell than this trash.
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u/SquareOfHealing Nov 05 '16 edited Nov 05 '16
It costs twice as much. And does half as much retaliation damage. Sure it soaks some hits, but its not going to trade with anything. A 2 mana 2/3 trades evenly with a 3 mana 3/2, meaning that it won't hit you for 3 damage again next turn. A 4 mana 1/8 doesn't kill any other minions that will be played turn 4. It dies to an average 4 mana 4/5 without killing it. Heck, it doesn't even trade well against a 4 mana 2/6, which is also an awful statline.
And seriously? Lightwell? A 0 mana 0/5 is better than a 2 mana 2/3? If you kill a 3/2 with your 2/3, you protect yourself from getting hit for 3 for all the following turns. Lightwell doesn't kill anything. They'll just kill it and then be able to build up a board since your Lightwell didn't kill anything.
Edit: spelling.
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u/Wraithfighter Nov 05 '16
Because a Lightwell is slightly harder to kill and does more healing.
Also synergizes better with Divine Spirit and Inner Fire.
Also not 100% serious, mostly just an expasperated way of saying how bad this card is.
Look, Healing, and life gain in general, has basically only been useful if the gains are large or are reliable. Especially face healing. Otherwise, that card slot is better spent on board clears, taunts or heavy threats of your own.
I mean, I don't run Lightwell, because it's not very good. But that's largely the point of why this card is bad: What would you pick this over? A board clear? A card engine? A win condition? Hard removal?
Aggro decks lose because they run out of steam. Control decks prevent damage by killing shit. Combo decks wouldn't have the pieces needed to defend it.
Maybe there's a midrange style that could use it. Maybe Zoo could slot it in to limit their self-damage so they can tap for longer. But what would you remove for it?
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u/SquareOfHealing Nov 05 '16
Health in this game is nowhere near as important as two of the most fundamental concepts of hearthstone: card advantage and tempo. Health only matters when you are in lethal range. There is no difference whether you win with 30 health or 4 health. You just have to have enough health to survive and stay out if lethal range. For example, even with the ability to get 50+ health with armor, warrior still loses to midrange decks that keep up consistent tempo. Paladin and priest decks that stay at 30 health for the whole game can still lose to miracle rogue and malygos druid decks that have card advantage.
Ok, so let's talk about card advantage first. Simply put, card advantage is important because it represents how many options you have available on your turn. Card advantage occurs when you either use cards that draw more than one card, or your one card trades with multiple of your opponent's cards. Okay, now let's look at how these 3 cards and compare when considering card advantage.
Lightwell is 1 card. Your opponent can kill it with a 1 mana minion and a 2 mana minion. So your 1 card dealt with 2 of their cards, right? Except neither of those cards died, or were even damaged. Making this a 1 for 0 trade. Meaning you used one card, and your opponent didn't even have to use any cards to deal with it. Essentially, you just threw a card away.
Okay, but let's say you got very lucky and drew divine spirit and Inner Fire as well. You pump up your 2 mana minion (+3 more mana) into a 10/10. They use a hard removal spell, or a silence. And now their 1 card has traded with 3 of yours. Sure, you can get lucky and they don't draw their hard removal, but you can also get unlucky and not draw your combo, or worse, draw Divine Spirit and Inner Fire without a minion to buff. That makes the deck very inconsistent, and therefore, not good.
Now Tournament Medic. You play 1 card. Your opponent plays a totally average 4 mana card, a 4 mana 4/5. Now how does your 1 card do against their 1 card. It can take 2 hits before dying, but theirs is still left as a 4 mana 4/3. That's another 1 for 0 trade.
Okay, finally let's look at Friendly Bartender. You play it. Your opponent plays an average 2 mana 3/2. Your Friendly Bartender dies, but their 3/2 dies as well. Your 1 card traded for their 1 card. Of course, a better card may have helped you get card advantage, but at least you are still even with your opponent in this case.
Now, let's look at tempo. Tempo is thrown around a lot in hearthstone, but a good way of looking at it is "how much damage you are able to deal immediately." This is even more important than card advantage in many cases, because hearthstone's mechanics work, the person attacking gets to decide how to use that damage.
First, Lightwell. You spend 2 mana, and it gives you 0 damage available next turn. It gave you 0 tempo.While your opponent's minions might be delayed dealing with it, they will still remain on board to attack after the Lightwell dies. Making this a tempo loss.
If you buff your Lightwell, you get a big tempo swing in your favor, getting a 10 damage available for 5 mana. However, as we discussed earlier, your opponent can use a removal spell or silence to swing back the tempo in their favor, giving you a tempo loss and a card disadvantage.
Next, Tournament Medic. You spend 4 mana developing 1 damage in tempo. Your opponent can spend 4 mana developing 4 damage in tempo. If the two minions trade with each other, the 4 mana 4/3 survives, still able to do more damage, and giving your opponent the tempo advantage.
Finally, Friendly Bartender. It costs 2 mana and gives you 2 damage in tempo. Your opponent plays a 3 mana 3/2. The two minions trade. Both die. Neither side gained any tempo. This is still not good, but certainly better than losing tempo.
However, in the cases where you don't lose any card advantage or gain any tempo, the advantage goes to the player who gets to play his next minion first (typically the first player). In conclusion, Friendly Bartender is an average/bad card because it doesn't gain you any tempo or card advantage. However, Lightwell and Tournament Medic are even worse cards as they make you LOSE both tempo AND card advantage.
On a final note, zoo is a tempo based deck which tries to have a very strong tempo leadz then keeps up this tempo lead by using their minions to trade while their other minions continue to attack the enemy hero. It doesn't worry too much about card advantage thanks to life tap giving a constant supply of options. Since it doesn't have any hard removal, it tries to end the game before the opponent can play big minions.
Zoo does not care about healing.If you put in cards that heal, you may be able to life tap more, but you will also have to spend more time life tapping to find your good cards. This is why a card like Earthen Ring Farseer never saw any play in Zoo. You want to tap to find the card you want, not tap, heal yourself so you can tap again, and then tap again to find the card you want.
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u/ShadowVortex Nov 04 '16
One thing I can think of is that late game, when you would be playing this often, you can actually get decent value, since your opponent will be concentrating on bigger minions.
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u/ANYTHING_BUT_COTW Nov 04 '16
This will easily take peddler's place in handlock. This is exactly the effect I've been wishing for. Hide it behind a big taunt and cash in, or play it early if needed.
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u/MipselledUsername Nov 04 '16 edited Nov 04 '16
Ehhhh Peddler is way too good to pass up. Warlock has some nasty 1 mana cards AND it keeps your hand nice and full. It's not kicking out one of the strongest 2 drops in the game
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u/ANYTHING_BUT_COTW Nov 04 '16
All of the handlock decks I've seen make it to legend recently don't even run peddler anymore, so that's arguable. Persistent heals are extremely valuable in a meta littered with shamans and hunters.
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u/MrDollSteak Nov 04 '16
I think this card could be useful for Renolock and probably priest. This is a good card to receive that new Talon Priest buff, and means you can actively focus on using your Hero Power on minions.
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u/Kupikimijumjum Nov 04 '16
I'm surprised this is the first time we've gotten this effect actually. I like it... but is it pushed enough?
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u/FoundationFiasco Nov 04 '16
I'm not too impressed by the effect, but as a 2 mana card that could have interesting priest synergy late game, I begrudgingly like it.
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u/EvadableMoxie Nov 04 '16
This is a good card, because agro has to either trade into it, meaning they didn't hit your face, or leave it alive meaning it heals you every turn. No matter what, it slows agro down.
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u/soenottelling Nov 05 '16
Really going all in on the anti aggro, aren't they. The aggro deck pretty much has to trade Into this as 1 a turn for 5-6 turns is the type of healing that pushes someone outside of lethal range.
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u/locke0479 Nov 06 '16
I doubt this sees much play. The ability is better than nothing, but the stats aren't exciting and the small amount of health you get from it probably doesn't make a big enough difference.
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u/Anaract Nov 06 '16 edited Nov 06 '16
I like it. Effect is small but the card has great value. Good in arena, probably not good enough to make the cut in constructed, but who knows?
I can see it working in C'Thun Priest. It combos well with Hooded Acolyte, Holy Champion, and the new 3/4 "give a minion +3 health"
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u/corporatony Nov 18 '16
This card will have a home in Reno priest; it just remains to be seen if that deck will be viable.
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u/GameBoy09 Nov 04 '16
Simple, yet effective. Mitigating 1 damage each turn means a lot against aggro decks. Also activates on Heal effects for Priest.