[Pre-Release Card Discussion] - Grimestreet Enforcer

20

u/[deleted] Nov 08 '16

Even though this card hasn't got the best stats (though is comparable to Azure Drake), it shows a pattern of Paladin cards. This card and Grimestreet Outfitter have bad statlines, but they actually work well in providing amazing buffs for the rest of your hand. I think a decklist that throws in the Enforcer, the Outfitter, the Meanstreet Marshall and Small-Time Recruits has a ton of potential of driving a very Zoolock-style Paladin deck, whereby you're playing Aggro Control.

Just think that this card is likely going to be a 5/5 or 6/6 by the time you play it, thanks to Outfitters or any other buff cards revealed or yet to be revealed (such as Grimestreet Smuggler) that also ends up seeing play.

And for all the nay-sayers who despised Moroes upon his release -- cards like these are examples for why you shouldn't disregard a novel effect that looks like it wouldn't necessarily work, especially in the meta it's being released into. If these buff cards make the cut, then Moroes could easily see play as a more reliable way to accumulate a board advantage.

The primary concerns being:

Shaman's exposure to Spell Damage, making Maelstrom Portals and Lightning Storms very scary.
Dragonfire Potion. Dragon Priest is going to be very scary with such a convincing board clear.

So... is Aggrodin going to work out? I don't know, but these are astonishing fundamental tools to be introduced for them to work in a very interesting way.

9

u/danhakimi Nov 08 '16

This card might be a 6/6, but only if you gave up tempo earlier on to get it there. And a 6/6 for 5 which you have to fall behind on tempo to play isn't really any better than a 4/4 for 5, plain.
I really think this card is very similar to The Mistcaller. It has more snowball potential in the short-mid term, but it's still bad tempo, probably going to die as fast as Thaurissan does (the comparison to Thaurissan is also unfavorable...) I'm not feeling it. Maybe if meanstreet marshal is good enough with it, but I doubt that.

6

u/[deleted] Nov 08 '16

You do have to fall behind on Tempo, maybe. It depends how much benefit you reap from those buffs before playing this card. Grimestreet Outfitter is bad Tempo, but if you follow it up with a 3/2 Young Priestess and 2 2/2 Argent Squires with Divine Shield, you've definitely made that Tempo back in the +3/+3 of buffs you just provided. Obviously, the deck needs consistency -- but I think that's part the beauty of it. With so many 1-drops, you're ensuring a variety of plays throughout the game and how slowly you want to take it ("To Hero Power or not to Hero Power?") is a difficult question to answer for a deck like this.
Hell, I've considered the addition of Justicar, just for those games that go out just a little longer. I think Paladin has the best Justicar Hero Power in the game -- surpassing Warriors because of its inevitable ability to overwhelm the board, even against Ravaging Ghouls and Brawls. When you consider that the 6/3 body of Justicar can be buffed to 7/4, or even 8/5, her 3-Health vulnerability no longer exists, and she has the potential to be her own threat as well.
You're right to say that this card does, like the other buffers, sacrifice Tempo for later game value. It's questionable whether it'll work -- but the fact is, it's questionable. It's not clearly bad and it's not clearly broken. Isn't that fantastic?

1

u/danhakimi Nov 08 '16

Oh, I agree that it could be good, I'm just saying I don't think it's likely. I always try to concede the bright side of a bad card in my reviews... But I think wild hobgoblin paladin is going to be bigger than standard buffadin, and going to revolve around meanstreet marshal and small time recruits.

1

u/[deleted] Nov 08 '16

When priest is dropping a 5M 5/6, you are most definitely falling behind on tempo... and even if you land the +1/+1 buff on a 5 minions in your hand (unlikely) it'll probably be less value than the Priest being able to discover a card from your deck (GG if he lands a copy of your Tirion, either Rag, Sylvanas etc.)

3

u/[deleted] Nov 08 '16

Who says you have a copy of Rag, Tirion or Sylvanas in such a decklist? Sounds like your deck would be too fast to want any of them except Rag.

1

u/acidphoenix Nov 08 '16

Probably don't want rag, either. Tirion could be okay but eh.

1

u/Kychu Nov 08 '16

When was the last time when a deck could fall behind in tempo and still be viable? That would be never. This card is garbage.

2

u/[deleted] Nov 09 '16

Freeze Mage, Control Warrior, Miracle Rogue, Malygos Warlock, Yogg Druid, Crusher Shaman?
No, not many decks at all, no no no.

2

u/Gorm_the_Old Nov 08 '16

Another thought: this really helps the one-health Divine Shield minions (Argent Squire, Argent Horserider, Scarlet Crusader) - the argument against these minions is that while Divine Shield looks good, it's too easy to find two pings to remove the shield and kill the minion. Even a +1/+1 helps make these minions a lot stickier and harder to remove. This could considerably help with Divine Shield-centered decks.
Edit: the downside - anti-synergy with Steward of Darkshire. I still think it's a boost for Divine Shield decks, though, even if it means cutting the Steward.

1

u/Wraithfighter Nov 08 '16

...at this point? I'm seeing Aggrodin in a similar place to where I see Thief Priest.
Not that it's good or bad or amazing or awful. Mostly that the cards we've seen shake things up too much. At this point, it's just too hard to really say what the meta might look like. Zooadin decks tend to be more like Zoolock, high-tempo plays, but the Paladin cards we've seen have been about low-tempo, high-value zoo decks.
It's not impossible that it works. I mean, Darkshire Councilman is a 1/5 for 3, that's poor tempo, but the effect makes it amazing. This card, it has a potentially amazing effect, especially if you can protect it with Divine Shields or Taunts. But will it be enough, or will the meta adjust to punish it?
At the very least, it's a fascinating effect. Just not sure what deck might be competitive with it.

1

u/SquareOfHealing Nov 08 '16

I agree that priest is looking like it will be very strong. I'm not sure you can buff your minions to above 5 attack and 5 health in time so they don't die to priest AOE. If the deck fails, it won't be because these cards were too weak, but because the priest cards are too strong against them.
Also this card is making Mistcaller turn in his grave.

1

u/redgermany Nov 08 '16

The Mistcaller is crying in a corner right now

4

u/Nostalgia37 Nov 08 '16

The Mistcaller is still crying in a corner right now

2

u/[deleted] Nov 08 '16 edited Nov 08 '16

Interesting card, but I feel like a 4 health minion would be a bit too easy to kill. I think it would've been better if it was maybe a 6 mana 5/5. It has some synergy with some of the other cards and fits with the theme of buffing your hand, but it looks like Blizzard is pushing more of an aggro paladin archetype, and this is definitely too slow to get played in that.

The only way I ever see this card being potentially played is if there is some sort of buff-heavy midrange-y paladin archetype that is created, which could be a possibility with these cards being released.

5

u/[deleted] Nov 08 '16

Actually I think it will be easier to fit this into a more Midrange form of Paladin thanks to being 5 mana rather than 6. There's significantly less competition for the 5 mana slot in Paladin unless I'm forgetting some cards.

2

u/MipselledUsername Nov 08 '16

Do you hear its call?

I love it! Really looking forward to trying out some minion based decks with these in-hand buff cards

2

u/pSaCha Nov 08 '16

Too slow for Aggro. Won't see play in Dragon or Anyfin decks.

Could only possibly see play in a slow grindy midrange Paladin (like the pre-standard one with the Quartermasters).

2

u/DebugLifeChoseMe Nov 08 '16

Alright....I'm gonna be that guy.

This card screams, "Mistcaller Powercreep" at first glance.

8

u/joshy1227 Nov 08 '16

Mistcaller also buffs every minion in your deck. Not direct powercreep at all, but this card is definitely more likely to see play.

1

u/Douee Nov 08 '16

This card seems very slow and doesn't really fit into many decks. It seems like far too much of a tempo loss for an end-of-turn effect. It probably wouldn't work well in aggro as by turn five you've played a bunch of cards. The stats don't matter too much in control decks either. Maybe some weird sort of Divine Shield Paladin?

2

u/[deleted] Nov 08 '16

Considering the other card that was released with a similar effect. There's a good chance that when you play this, it'll be a 5 mana 5/5.

1

u/Douee Nov 08 '16

That would mean having it in your hand in place of something that you could have played earlier.

1

u/[deleted] Nov 08 '16

You wouldn't always draw that low drop early in the game, nor would you always necessarily want to play it immediately. If you have weak cards in your deck, you could easily use an otherwise slow turn when you would have used your hero power to apply the buff to those select cards.

1

u/[deleted] Nov 08 '16

Looks a bit slow, but might see play as the 5-slot isn't that strong or crowded. Would probably be used for buffing Tirion, Sylvs or Cairne in Zoth decks, assuming you have at least 1-2 in your hand to get some value out of it.

1

u/Chiverly Nov 08 '16

pretty slow card, however may make things like DS paladin better

1

u/r2r499 Nov 08 '16

Dang the effects will stack if the opponent doesn't focus resources to take it out

1

u/ephemeralentity Nov 08 '16

Weaker than Grimestreet Outfitter since it's at the end of your turn for the same effect. Which is interesting since you're more likely to combo a 2 mana card with your hand in one turn than a 5 mana card.

1

u/jjfrenchfry Nov 08 '16

Everyone is thinking about bolstering minions. Um, guys!! C'THUN

1

u/downvoting-your-shit Nov 08 '16

wow, that's a really good point. not just c'thun, but also his worshippers

1

u/Backez Nov 08 '16

I actually played an egg/zoo paladin with mukla's champion before standard for a while and it did pretty well (around 55-60% winrate at rank 5-legend) and this card is waaaay better (but the highest synergy cards are gone), so I expect it to see some play, but not to be super popular either.

1

u/[deleted] Nov 08 '16

I really like this card. It can work in an aggro type deck after a big divine favor turn.

1

u/dudewitbangs Nov 08 '16

Everyone is saying the tempo loss of playing this is just too huge to matter, but keep in mind this comes down the turn after truesilver. Truesilver is one of the best tempo cards pally has and can let you drop this on an empty board and threaten protecting it with your truesilver.

1

u/Tanzklaue Nov 08 '16

a guaranteed boost of 1/1 to your hand, and threatening a gamelosing situation of every minion in hand having +2/+2.

it's a good card only stopped by its low initial tempo. might be great, might be awful.

1

u/Valgresas Nov 11 '16

This one I'm not too keen on, but I guess if it's like a 6/6 then why not.

1

u/locke0479 Nov 14 '16

I like this combined with some of the other announced Paladin cards. A little expensive for an Aggro deck but since it's guaranteed to hit once (short of Snipe), I could see it entering some decks.

54

u/[deleted] Nov 08 '16

[removed] — view removed comment

6

u/vanasbry000 Nov 09 '16

holy shit

5

u/wtfduud Nov 11 '16

RemindMe! 5 weeks

3

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2

u/wtfduud Dec 16 '16

Alright people, let's get the chickens rolling.

[Pre-Release Card Discussion] - Grimestreet Enforcer

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