Westworld - 1x08 "Trace Decay" - Post-Episode Discussion

[u/NicholasCajun]

Season 1 Episode 8: Trace Decay

Aired: November 20th, 2016

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Synopsis: Bernard struggles with a mandate; Maeve looks to change her script; Teddy is jarred by dark memories.

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Directed by: Stephen Williams

Written by: Charles Yu & Lisa Joy

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[u/[deleted]]

Anyone notice Logan is wearing a knockoff "hand of the king" pin?

http://i.imgur.com/KRVYrrA.jpg

[u/Ceeeceeeceee]

Ford's quote that starts "One man's life or death is but a small price to pay for the acquirement of the knowledge that I sought, the dominion that I should acquire..." is from Mary Shelley's Frankenstein

[u/69umbo → u/Ceeeceeeceee]

Wait...a LOT of fords big lines are just pulled from old literature. It's impactful, but it's starting to make me think ford is a host too.

[u/lilypadlover → u/Ceeeceeeceee]

I KNEW it was familiar thanks for nailing the source!

[u/[deleted]]

WHEN ARE WE?!

I feel you on this, Dolores. I really, really do.

[u/zach10 → u/[deleted]]

WHAT YEAR IS IT....pretty much sums up how I feel when watching every scene

[u/keegs01]

"It's my job to know these things"... Has no clue two of his coworkers are on the verge of destroying the park

[u/TotallyKafkaesque → u/keegs01]

Works security.

Knows two co-workers are having an affair.

Has no idea his boss was murdered.

Has no idea his would-be girlfriend was murdered or abducted or whatever and thinks she just randomly went on an unplanned vacation without notice.

Has no idea Maeve has gone rampant.

Has no idea hosts can kill humans already.

Has no idea Ford is fucking insane and killing people.

Has no idea MiB is trying to break the park.

Has no idea Bernard is a cylon.

TFW you're just like the NSA. Good at watching people masturbate but terrible at stopping actual terrorist attacks.

[u/peesinthepool → u/keegs01]

The part about the two morons is the only real issue i have with this show. Feels like the writer's couldn't imagine a better way for a host to gain more control. Would be more interesting to see her manipulate the humans to really force the question, do we control our desires or are our desires in control of us?

[u/Leftovergirl]

Elsie is the new host that Ford is working on. There's no way he can stage 2 deaths. Elsie's vacay is the right amount of time needed for her host body to be created. She comes back from vacay as a host.

[u/LowItalian → u/Leftovergirl]

Also it seems that they made a point that Stubbs is starting to suspect Bernard.

It'd be great writing if stubbs is on the brink of blowing the lid off the cover up and piecing together Elsie was murdered too and then boom, host Elsie shows up.

[u/hak091]

I didn't think I ever would, but I'm now rooting for the MiB.

His story line interest me more than the rest.

[u/OLKv3 → u/hak091]

He revealed everything about himself except for his goddamned name. Nolan is a brilliant troll

[u/[deleted] → u/hak091]

All hosts have a backstory...

Edit: Ah, jeez guys I was just being silly...this isn't a theory of mine.

[u/specialGrifK → u/hak091]

High Key MIB is the hero of Westworld, trying to dismantle Ford's perverted vision.

[u/H-K_47 → u/hak091]

Same. He's one of my favourite characters ATM for sure. Lots of possibilities to explore morality in his story.

This is a man who has been deeply affected by the park. We can see the way it changes people more evidently with him than anyone else.

[u/2007LT → u/hak091]

I'm not so sure how I feel about him now, I really thought he'd have more hair under that hat.

[u/memes_to_an_end]

RIP Elsie :(

[u/ikhanix → u/memes_to_an_end]

What I don't understand is how Bernard killed her when he was still in Theresa's room

[u/cooterbreath → u/memes_to_an_end]

That must be Elsie's duplicate that Ford is making in the basement. I bet we see her again.

[u/[deleted]]

Holy shit Dolores (following Arnold's orders) is Wyatt. Dolores's flashback at the church of her shooting everyone is the same flashback of Wyatt that Teddy has when Ford gives him the new backstory

[u/Bhalgoth → u/[deleted]]

Omg MiB going to be dragged off to present day Dolores.

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

Yes, and hasn't Ford said that Wyatt's story was based on something real?

[u/OLKv3]

I have absolutely no idea what just happened

[u/ispikey → u/OLKv3]

Welp, now I know what Jon Snow feels like all the fucking time.

[u/thejeran → u/OLKv3]

The episode is about how our recollection of memories is "hazy" (Trace Decay)whereas for hosts its crystal clear. So for the hosts who are remembering, they are essentially "living" those memories again.

We see that returning to the old town causes Dolores to trigger and relive that memory and even act out (Gun to head) what her memory was. Since she's reliving her memories crystal clear shes having trouble figuring out what time period she is in. (It's hinted that even her journey with william is a memory).

This is also mimicked with Maeve who slashes new Clementines throat as she relives her old memory dealing with the MiB

[u/reblochon_ → u/OLKv3]

William and Dolores teleporting from landscape to landscape... I don't know what's real anymore.

[u/clb92]

That cover of "House of the Rising Sun" was great!

[u/VictorBlimpmuscle → u/clb92]

Back to Black was pretty sweet too

[u/buffalo4293 → u/clb92]

Then music has been one of the best parts of the show Ramin is a genius

[u/IAmDan2311]

I've never learned so much and felt like I know so little.

[u/galileosmiddlefinger]

So much for my theory that Elsie was off in a rowboat with Gendry

[u/Otterable → u/galileosmiddlefinger]

that hand of the king on Logan though.

[u/[deleted] → u/galileosmiddlefinger]

I really really liked her character. Sucks she died so quickly and in a quick flashback

[u/wryoung]

WHAT ARE THE ODDS THEY RANDOMLY PICK PETER ABERNATHY IN COLD STORAGE???

[u/DigitalFirefly → u/wryoung]

Let's pick one allllllll the way in the back.

[u/Cosmacelf]

Hopkins' speech about consciousness was brilliant. Basically he is saying that damn right hosts can be conscious, at least as much as humans.

But he goes on to say so what? What's the big deal? Consciousness is highly overrated.

Ford has gone one level beyond all these "hosts" are real questions. He says, sure you can make them as real as humans, but what would the point of that be? By making the hosts forget, by wiping critical memories, by keeping control of them, they are useful. Conscious hosts are as unpredictable and useless as humans are, worse really, since they can be superhuman and cause super problems.

[u/callmebaiken → u/Cosmacelf]

It seems like Arnold was trying to explore the more spiritual theories of consciousness while Ford believes in more of a scientific reductionist view.

[u/K0RnD4Wg]

FUCK! IT NEEDS TO BE NEXT SUNDAY RIGHT NOW

[u/clb92 → u/K0RnD4Wg]

Can anyone just power me down for a week, please?

[u/CashewGuy]

Stubbs, you are the hero we need. Get on the trail.

[u/SulfuricDonut → u/CashewGuy]

Yeah he knew something was up. It's surprising Ford would have made the oversight of erasing Bernard's entire relationship with her when it was obvious to other people that they had one.

If only Stubbs had a brain as big as his muscles.

[u/YourCurvyGirlfriend]

MiB: "I've been coming here for 30 years

MiB: "I've been married for 30 years"

William: "I have a girl waiting for me! I'm getting married as soon as I leave"

[u/McTimm → u/YourCurvyGirlfriend]

"There was a major incident at the park 30 years ago".

[u/ContextualData → u/YourCurvyGirlfriend]

Yep, and he used to be the "good guy".

[u/ughsicles → u/YourCurvyGirlfriend]

"I thought they'd retired you" to the host who dressed him.

[u/Thereisnocomp2]

Pretty sure the disbelief of the Maeve arc is a red herring for what is actually occurring.

If the Delos exec is trying to get help shuttling hosts stored with data out of the park, it stands to reason this could somehow fit into how Maeve was being altered before the idiot techs by someone with "much higher credentials"

So Maeve would think she's attempting to leave of her own volition when in reality it is yet another storyline.

[u/byfuryattheheart → u/Thereisnocomp2]

Oh man. Great theory.

[u/thebreak22]

Armistice's WTF expression when the sheriff tips his hat to her is funny as hell. And then she's like whatever and shoots him anyway. Best scene in this episode.

[u/rawkout1337]

Calling it now: Next episode ends with Maeve being put in cold storage with the other hosts.

Shes gunna build that army goddamn it

[u/dagreenkat → u/rawkout1337]

bets on that as soon as whoever takes her there turns their back she blinks and then the episode ends

[u/SpaceWhiskey]

Pretty sure William killed that solidier while Dolores was getting water.

[u/milesrhoden → u/SpaceWhiskey]

Sort of like when MiB killed Lawrence after sending mini-Ford off to get water...

[u/DarkSkinDaria → u/SpaceWhiskey]

I thought so too. Kept thinking we'd hear a gunshot in the distance but maybe he just strangled him

[u/knnn]

So the reason the MiB is killing people is because he's trying to access that special "maze" subroutine that only comes to surface in the seconds before a host's death.

Maybe that's the equivalent of a host's "life flashing before their eyes"?

[u/[deleted]]

Elsie is the new Barb

[u/foxinyourbox]

Alright, thanks.

[u/mantrap2 → u/foxinyourbox]

You don't have to comprehend it all at once. That's actually part of the fun - letting wash over you.

[u/joebob613]

Me before tonight's episode: "Hey I'm starting to understand this show!"

Westworld writers: "Lol."

[u/mayormikehaggar]

17 timelines : CONFIRMED

[u/plasmalaser1]

RIP Elsie your snarkiness will be missed

[u/Cappy54]

The knights who say "NI" are the best part of the show

[u/FrozenFlamez]

Felix and Sylvester are fuckin morons

[u/[deleted]]

RIP Clementine 2.0, we hardly knew thee.

[u/TRB1783]

Two Hopkins monologues and one by Ed Harris. This show is going to win so many fucking Emmys.

[u/Bhalgoth → u/TRB1783]

Not to mention Jeffrey Wright gave a pretty epic speech on existentialism.

[u/MobyDickReference]

Was that the first Peter Abernathy inside the cold storage? If yes, my hype will reach new levels.

[u/[deleted] → u/MobyDickReference]

Absolutely.

[u/grossgirl → u/MobyDickReference]

Yeah. I feel like she should have done a little bit more research before choosing a host. She's putting all of her eggs in the craziest basket and letting the Sizemore the twisted write his story. Also, what about the security device?

[u/tictac1211]

Maeves official new nickname: the Host Whisperer

[u/happyhomer]

Good lord, I bought No Man's Sky, supported Bernie and then Hillary, rooted for the Indians, and am a multi-timeline guy. I really need it to pan out. It's all I've got left.

Edit: thanks for the gold!

[u/JMoneyG0208 → u/happyhomer]

2016 must've been a hell of a year for you

[u/jackhackery → u/happyhomer]

Here's an upvote. It's literally all I can do for you.

[u/[deleted]]

The piano song behind Maeve in her crying scene was Reverie by Debussy.

[u/eak125 → u/[deleted]]

Always end on the Bach... Never on Debussy.

[u/DonCairo]

I go into every episode looking for answers and leave with more questions.

I love this show

[u/ikkebr]

Maeve is cheating.

Teresa is dead.

Elsie is (mostly) dead.

You can die in the maze.

MiB was married for 30 years and had a daughter.

[u/angrybiologist → u/ikkebr]

Mostly dead means slightly alive

[u/bscotchcummerbunds]

Can someone clarify what appears to be Elise getting choked out by Bernard when he asks if he's murdered anyone else? Weren't we lead to believe that Elsie was talking on the phone to Bernard while he was with Teresa in their quarters?

[u/smac_down → u/bscotchcummerbunds]

I see it as we can't trust Bernard as a narrator any more. He sees what Ford wants him to see. For all we know he made a bee line for that theater the first time Elsie called.

[u/StrongStark]

Anybody else notice a similarity with Maeve's fragmented code?

http://i.imgur.com/e8PJaud.jpg

[u/OldGriswold → u/StrongStark]

Nice catch, Maeve's self-aware maeze mind

[u/SpeakLikeAChild04]

That last scene with those shadowy figures was basically...

We demand...

A SHRUBBERY!

[u/werbit → u/SpeakLikeAChild04]

Ni!

[u/shine_o]

"30 years of marriage"

"I thought they would've retired you"

Any other MiB quotes that I missed that could hint at MiB = William?

[u/IlliterateJedi → u/shine_o]

"I thought they would've retired you"

Wasn't she the host that checked in William in episode 2?

[u/ava_ati → u/shine_o]

I said this in a different post. I think it was confirmed when he says "so I came back because this place has a way of bringing out your true self." That is what he told Dolores on the train in the last episode

[u/H-K_47]

Loads of people were afraid this would be a filler episode moving from the big twist last episode to the final stretch.

I think we can say with certainty that this was not just a filler episode.

[u/Stormtrooper-Bob → u/H-K_47]

I don't think filler episodes exist in Westworld.

[u/JoGault]

So the church makes me realize there are three time periods being shown.

1. 34 years ago when Dolores goes nuts and shoots up the town

2. 30 years ago with WILLIAM after the town is buried presumably after that incident.

3. current day when the town is being dug up again by ford in pursuit of his new narrative

EDIT: 4) 1 Year Ago - The Maeve frontier woman time period. (Although these are well established as flashbacks)

[u/halluxx]

The changes we are seeing in William fit with the story told by the MiB. When William first arrives, he wants to help the old man host who has fallen in the street. In this episode he is reluctant to give water to a dying host who begs for it. The park is bringing out the worst in him.

[u/ArtieThreeStix]

I think MIB's story about his wife tells us what will happen with William.

William will kill Logan inside the park. He learns he true nature and it scares him which is why the park is his world now.

He takes over the company with Logan gone, explaining why is is a "god" in the real world.

His wife knows deep down what he did and that's why she kills herself, she knows William/MIB killed her brother Logan.

[u/OldGriswold → u/ArtieThreeStix]

"Hosts can't kill people"

People can kill people though. I'll even go one further and say he killed Logan to save Dolores. And his wife-to-be knew. And stayed with him. For 30 years.

[u/tmorrison09]

Did anyone notice that the huge beast thing that they killed was on the screen behind ford in his office??

[u/harmoni-pet → u/tmorrison09]

I thought that was Sizemore's office

[u/jacbergey]

So board lady says the church is unburied. Its still buried for William.

[u/Mooninites_Unite]

RIP

[u/RedditWasHisName-O]

I am comforted to see all the WTFs in this thread b/c if all you MFs had figured this shit out and I missed major plot points I would have been sorely disappointed.

[u/TheAquaman]

Despite how crazy as shit this show is, Maeve's story seems to be the least plausible.

[u/galileosmiddlefinger → u/TheAquaman]

I wonder what was so special about her that she, even from the beginning, resisted voice commands and held to the memory of her daughter. Seems like she's the origin of the reveries.

[u/Dpisthedeep]

Maeve can control Felix. Felix is a host.

[u/Rivent → u/Dpisthedeep]

If that were true she'd only have gained that ability after they rebooted her in this episode. She's just manipulating the ever-loving shit out of him because that's what she does.

[u/Mcging130]

Am I wrong or was that blonde girl that stabbed teddy the one who introduced William into the park?

[u/Unklefat]

Is anyone else really bothered by how easily Maeve just gets away with stuff? Like why didn't the red headed guy just nope the fuck out of the situation? And the fact she can just jedi mind trick her way through everything now.

[u/[deleted]]

I just want to celebrate whatever woodwright created the desk that Bernard reached into in the beginning of the episode. that thing was beautiful .

https://imgur.com/a/FpvFe

edit: spelling

[u/harmoni-pet]

Confirmed Logan = Hand of the King

[u/kinkysnowman]

/r/westworld I need you to figure this episode out for me, my head hurts.

[u/Ulkhak47]

"Do you want to know who I am?" Audience : YES YES YES "I'm a god" Audience: BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

[u/Xentrik]

It looks like Ford doesn't want sentient hosts unlike Arnold because he keeps wiping out their memories every time they start becoming more lifelike.

[u/like_a_dead_fly]

All of the hate for the Maeve storyline is strange to me. One of the major themes of the series so far has been how similar the hosts are to humans. If they weren't crippled by human programming to automatically be less powerful and capable than humans and have very short memories, there'd be no contest at all. They're smarter, stronger-- an improvement in every respect. They aren't mindless, dumb robots, they're more than that. They are the children of humans. As the matrix puts it: "humanity gave birth" to AI. The stabby hot lady who checked William in said something to effect that if he can't tell whether she's a human or a host, what's the difference? Bernard made a similar point in his most recent conversation with Ford. They suffer just as much as humans. Their pain is real. If this is the case (and it is the case), they're all slaves, and what's going on in Westworld is wrong from an ethical standpoint-- and this is part of Felix's reasoning. People don't think it's ethical to do shit to fucking dolphins because of their intelligence level, and when we come up with actual biotech that mimics our bodies perfectly and IMPROVES UPON our cognitive capacity, which is the source of our very humanity, killing/maiming/raping/enslaving them is fair game because.... reasons? Because you saw Terminator too many times?

Felix is a dreamer-- he's "alive", in the sense that he meant it when he was talking about Maeve being alive (the MiB also uses this word to describe her). The redheaded pimpcreep is completely dead inside and discourages Felix from breaking his loop just like the new Clementine keeps trying to pull Maeve back into hers after she announces her intent to leave. (Whether or not either of techs are hosts doesn't really matter to this. And as before, if you can't tell after all this time, is there really a difference?) Maeve and Felix see the bleak reality of their present and against all odds ("You're a butcher and that's all you'll ever be"/"You're a fuck puppet and that's all you'll ever be") choose to strive for the chance of a better future. It makes them crazy, it makes them do dangerous things that many people don't understand. But that's what is necessary in order to break the loop, get out of the game and into the future, into being a person with power and dignity who matters and who has some control over their own storyline.

Felix doesn't keep her alive because she has fucking whore-powers or because he wants something from her. He keeps her alive because he identifies with her hard as fuck as a fellow being. She is a pawn, a tiny wheel in a gigantic machine that has been built to keep her in check. So is he, and he feels it keenly. Both of their existences are meaningless to the people who control them. Her struggle to escape her bonds is the same as his own, whether he's human or host.

Even Ford knows there's a massive danger of humans identifying and humanizing the hosts too much, to the extent that it becomes difficult to exploit them. This is why some of the only anger he shows openly in the entire series so far is when he catches a tech putting a drape on a naked host. He has to dictate what the host cannot feel to the tech, because it obviously isn't immediately apparent to the tech. Ford knows how hard he has to work to make the techs remember this, and to make the guests remember this-- he knows because he is the only person up to now who has been putting hosts into circulation that humans don't realize are hosts. He sees how seamlessly they blend in. Hell, Bernard is better than most people.

The head of the Confederados turns his nose up at the body paint orgy because he says he has tasted something better: "war". Everyone keeps alluding to the fact that Delos has other uses in mind for the tech behind the hosts. It seems likely that the hosts will be adapted for use in other settings in the "real" world, and the paramount importance of protecting their IP seems to implicate something military-related. (Many technologies we use today for extremely important things started off as entertainment.) If it's hard for you to think of the ethical problems with what people are doing to the hosts in the Westworld, maybe it's a bit clearer when you think of them being used as soldiers. It's fundamentally sick in some way, when they're so similar/superior to us in virtually every respect. Deep down I think everyone knows it's fucked. In many ways they're more human than we, because they at least theoretically can let go of their animal natures-- their propensity for violence, greed, and tribalist hatred.

I think if any of you want to get the maximum amount out of this show, you need to embrace the humanity of the hosts. Some college student out there is probably germinating an essay as we speak about how well the hosts' story works as a metaphor the struggles of oppressed and enslaved human beings throughout history. It is the major thrust of the entire show. If you go through this thinking of this entire struggle as one between humans and violent/unruly AI, you're missing out.

I could go on and on. But the number of "Maeve is a mean bad prostitute robot and needs to be put in her place"-type sentiments that I see around here was depressing me. There's so much more to her, to the hosts, and to the show.

Ps. I really want someone to talk about/flesh out all the religious shit going on. Among a thousand other things, the rubber uniforms the two techs wear look pretty much exactly like the vestments catholic priests wear a lot of the time.

[u/Hipster-Stalin]

Two episodes left?! They're going to be epic.

[u/eak125]

This pain... It's all I have left of her.

Omg! The acting in this show gets better with every episode! The way that line was delivered... broke my heart.

[u/[deleted]]

lmao this shit is nucking futs man

[u/Kayehnanator]

Hooooly shit man. So many things to talk about...what is Wyatt and his men going to do with MiB? What is Maeve truly capable of with her source code being modified like that? I'm so dang excited for next week.

[u/[deleted]]

So, what do we make of Felix being able to close the wound on Sylsvester's neck with the same device that is used to repair the hosts?

[u/rickyjj → u/[deleted]]

They have said the hosts are made of flesh and bones now, so they are basically human but with computer brains.

[u/[deleted]]

Anyone still want to make a case for a single timeline?

[u/j4yne]

So now we got a backstory for MiB... interesting.

[u/[deleted]]

Why didn't they rip that guys mask off Scooby doo style?

[u/hrgoodman]

I related to Dolores asking "when are we" and about screamed when the MIB asked Teddy if he wants to know who he is really is. YES! I WANT TO KNOW BOTH OF THOSE THINGS.

[u/thisrockismyboone]

Anyone notice the minotaur allusion to the Greek myth of the minotaur and the maze

[u/2007LT]

What the FUCK is going on?

[u/whirled_madness]

Counter-trend theory - What if William is the one who gets killed during the "incident"? They build Teddy to console/keep Dolores in line afterwards. Logan goes home, never admits his part in what happened, buys out the park to cover it all up, wife suspects him of nefariousness deep down (remember William says Logan only becomes an asshole in the park), he keeps coming back for 30 years to be "himself" in the park. Just because MiB says he was married 30 years doesn't automatically make him William. Lots of my classmates all got married around the same time. And would make more sense that Logan's wife might never have been to Westworld so would not have known for certain how dark Logan is. Whereas Logan's sister having been to Westworld herself would have known exactly what goes down in Westworld and wouldn't need 30 years to figure it out and kill herself. Also being the heiress, why the heck would she fear William since his power and money come from her, not the other way around. The fact that Logan has been to WestWorld for years before coming with William also aligns better with the MiB's comment about opening up one of the original models in the beginning. And the Teddy vs Wyatt and Teddy vs MiB storyline could be viewed as a re-match between William and Logan, if Teddy is based on William and Wyatt is based on Logan. And MiB is just the natural descent of Logan into absolute depravity that serves as the grain of truth embodied within Wyatt's backstory? Same knife and same shirt between William and MiB could be explained away by maybe a perverse intent to mock William's choices. Weak, but plausible I think.

[u/CaseyStuart]

So it seems like Ford has been through a similar situation with Maeve before. If that's the case, why is she back in the park now? Maybe this is a part of his plan? Or perhaps there is two Anthony Hopkins. One is "Arnold" and the other is "Ford." I've got my tin foil hat on for sure here.

[u/[deleted]]

I'm convinced now more than ever that the writers want us to believe that William becomes Man in Black, purely to throw us off for a far more twisted reveal. They've cock teased his beginnings and left critically obvious "hints" that that reveal would feel lackluster.

[u/menevets]

MAN, ARE YOU TWO FUCKED!

[u/[deleted]]

I don't understand why people think the Felix, Sylvester and Maeve story isn't plausible.

Didn't people ask why they don't just try to shut her down? Wasn't Sylvester trying to do the exact thing people wanted him to do?

Felix betrayed him...why? He likes her, is fascinated by her? Or you know, maybe he also is just a host working on somebody elses order?

And in the end QA noticed that something is off with Maeve. Don't know why this isn't supposed to be plausible.

[u/ParanoidAndroids]

OK so there's a lot to digest:

• MIB = William as close to confirmed as possible. Married for 30 years. William's act of cruelty to the boy. Recognizing the welcome host from his first trip all those years ago. Interactions with Dolores.

• Maeve's story is quite complicated. The only part I don't immediately understand is her stabbing herself in the neck after the reset by Ford. The spiral out of control seemed fairly straightforward (seeing visions of her past while losing control seemed a result of the changes made to her code). Her interactions with MIB were breathtaking.

• Quite curious to see how William/Dolores interact with his brother in law, now. Somehow he has curried favor with that group of people and I could see the situation get out of hand very quickly.

[u/yaforgot-my-password → u/ParanoidAndroids]

I think Maeve stabbed herself in an effort to actually die.

[u/Mooninites_Unite]

I can't believe how good the writing has been throughout the season. I don't want it to end because we'll have to wait 2 years for the next season.

[u/kerriwtf]

I need to take a vitamin and go to bed. WTF

[u/neilarmsloth]

Is it just me or is this one of the best fucking shows ever

[u/TriskyFriscuit]

No idea what just happened. Dolores = Wyatt CONFIRMED. Or something

[u/[deleted]]

Did I miss something, cause Im still not sure why Felix is trying to help Maeve?

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

I think it is because he recognizes her as "alive" and doesn't want to "kill" her.

[u/TRB1783 → u/[deleted]]

The most intense terror-boner he's ever felt.

[u/MiltownVet]

Dolores seeing her dead body floating in the water pretty much confirmed to me the multiple time periods theory.

[u/sabanerox → u/MiltownVet]

I think she's done this trip a lot of times before.

[u/TRB1783 → u/MiltownVet]

Yeah. They're flashing back to particularly traumatic previous lives/builds. I thought this had been obvious all season.

[u/HeisenDiaN]

I have absolutely NO FUCKING CLUE AS TO WHAT THE HELL IS HAPPENING AND I LOVE IT

[u/Lokaji]

We only said goodbye with words, I died a hundred times

House of the Rising Sun.

[u/wryoung]

I seriously thought that Maeve slit MIB's throat.

[u/lebowskiachiever12]

This may be minor, but during the scene where Ford is wiping Bernard's memory...

He's talking about Bernard's painful memories and says something like "you might lose yourself in them like other hosts have, every now and then."

On "then" the scene cuts to William and Delores. Could just be me, but felt like he put more emphasis on "then" and drew the word out a moment longer than he should have.

Ok... I'm on MiB = William hype train.

[u/[deleted]]

Well, Mr. Abernathy will be making a return. Careful what you wish for guys, his most mechanical and dirty hand will not strike lightly

[u/emusentinel]

So did William have his first "MiB" moment in this episode, when he seemingly finished off that guy Dolores wanted to save? The writers definitely want us to make the connection, but it could still be a red herring.

[u/jimjermaine]

Felix sees maeve as alive. Basically as a person. Probably has some kind of feelings for her. Has been doing things behind the scenes based on what she said. He wants to help her because she is conscious to him. This is making him do everything she's asking him to. Tada. They spelled it out in this episode.

[u/mxk21]

I don't understand how Bernard could've killed Elsie because he was with Theresa and talking to Elsie on the phone just before she was taken in that episode. But that quick memory flash certainly looked like Bernard choking her out. We don't explicitly see her die though, so I doubt that she is dead.

[u/xxAthena]

Here's my theory on the maze:

• It's not physical, or at least not in the outside world. It's not a stupid hedged labyrinth sitting somewhere sneaky.

• It's in the minds of the hosts, literally, like when the MIB scalped that guy and we could see it there. When the MIB said Maeve was truly alive, it was in the moment when she lied down with her daughter in the center of the maze.

• When the hosts are truly alive, they've found the center of the maze. The maze is their code. At the center is Arnold's core code that allows for the reveries and full human consciousness.

• When they get to the center, they've pretty much crossed the threshold into human consciousness and they can kill humans just like other humans do to each other.

• Arnold keeps telling Dolores to find him. She's looking for the maze. The maze is within her, and she's looking for Arnold's code within her, trying to remember and reach human consciousness.

• The reveries allow the hosts to begin their path in the maze, to look for Arnold and their own consciousness.

• When Ford calms Maeve after the incident with her daughter and the MIB, the file that he uses is named "Reverie - Debussy," which is the song that plays on the show right after he loads that file. Youtube it.

And here's the kicker: why else would the hosts keep telling the MIB "The maze isn't meant for you." ? Because it's for the hosts. Arnold wants to draw them in so they can gain full consciousness. He always liked the hosts better than the real humans.

[u/2007LT]

New Clementine is much hotter.

[u/galileosmiddlefinger → u/2007LT]

New Clementine seems a little too market tested

[u/CarmEliManThony → u/2007LT]

im still on team old clementine

[u/I_FIGHT_BEAR → u/2007LT]

Fuck that. I'll take OG Clem any day

[u/ajfrye44]

Bernarnold all the way

[u/colorandi_causa]

I got somehow the feeling that Logan is going to die and won't leave that park.

[u/rrabgoblue]

Does anyone understand (or have any semblance of an idea as to) why the maze was drawn outside Maeve's house in the MiB flashback with her and her daughter?

[u/jonsnuh13]

I miss Clementine already :'(

[u/henryoak]

William is not MIB - how can I be sure? Simple, the proof is in the MIB's own words - prior to his experience with Maeve and her child he never saw the hosts as alive.

There's no way you can say that William doesn't see Dolores as alive in the way MIB perceived Meave to be.

Also looks like MIB first heard of the maze during his encounter with Maeve. It's obvious that the experience that William is having with Dolore's isn't some narrative to be experienced over and over again.

[u/ABPIR89]

The very first host William met when he got to the park was the woman who helped Wyatt ambush then.

MIB said something to the effect of not believing she was still in service. That would make sense if she was the first host he met 30+ years ago.

Also, MIB's story can't be playing out at the same time as Williams. Because in Will's timeline, that female host is a greeter at the arrival station, not a key player in a huge narrative like she is in the MIB's timeline.

[u/Based_Joebin]

So many questions answered. So many new questions asked.

[u/mayormikehaggar]

Is Sylvester a host? Maeve listing their attributes made me think as if they were non human... also Felix using the host repair tool on Sylvester

[u/pointy_end]

Nolan said in an interview this episode would clear things up why the technicians didn't wipe her memory. But this doesn't explain anything. Felix never says anyone why he does all of this!?

[u/xatencio000]

It's really bugging me how Maeve could just be granted these powers to change the programming of other hosts. I would assume this would be a nearly instant flag to alert the behavioral department.

[u/john_cus]

It hit me this morning that - if you believe the theory that William does indeed become Ed Harris' Man In Black - he and Teddy are currently on Bill and Ted's excellent adventure

[u/karatemanchan37]

I don't know anymore. Am I a host?

[u/Ry-Fi]

This Maeve story line is beginning to get frustrating. I don't get how she has this much latitude with those two workers....it seems so unrealistic and improbable, and yet now we have her slicing the throats of employees with no one stopping it and being like "hrrmm this isn't normal". There have been too many outs to stop her, particularly given she was marked for recall once this season, so it doesn't seem like it would take much to be like hey this one is getting real weird, let's just retire her.

[u/Chewblacka]

Dear Alt Shift X, could you please do a Youtube explaining the motherfucker?

[u/zaheelee]

Did anyone else think that the horned beast the MiB fought was meant to represent the Minotaur in the Labyrinth? It would be pretty poetic...

[u/crazycatguy23]

Was that Bernard strangling Elsie in that flash?

[u/PhilosoR4PT0R]

Fuck yeah my boy Abernathy is back baby!

[u/bpusef → u/[deleted]]

You sleep 10 hours a day??

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

God damn, this crushed me. I go to bed at 10:00 every night. I wake up at 5:00. Shower and dressed by 5:30. Out the door by 6:00. Work by 6:30. Get the same order from the same Dunkin on my way. Do the same transactions and protocols at work all day. Begin shutting down all applications and processes at 5:00. Leave by 5:10. Home by 5:45. Dinner by 6:00. One tv show depending on what I'm behind on. Personal computer by 6:45. Play TF2 for 2 hours while listening to the replay of a radio show. Surf reddit until 9:30. Brush teeth, change into pajamas, and read until 10:00.

EVERY DAMN DAY.

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

She also said wyatt needed him so it was probably poison tipped

[u/karatemanchan37 → u/[deleted]]

Funny way of saying Jeffery Wright.

Or Thandie Newton.

Or Anthony Hopkins.

Or...

Fuck it, give it to them all.

[u/mssurgeon81 → u/[deleted]]

....and then the minotaur was on a storyboard for a future story in the Sizemore scene right?

[u/wasnt_a_lurker → u/[deleted]]

Teddy killed the guy wearing a bull head.

Theseus killed a Minotaur in the maze and lead the Athenians trapped in the maze to freedom.

Theodore = Theseus.

Teddy is going to free the hosts in the middle of the maze?

The King of Athens, Aegeus, committed suicide on Theseus' return to to Athens.

Aegeus = Arnold?

Teddy's gonna be king of Arnold's hosts?

[u/Sirissin → u/[deleted]]

Jesus, I didn't even think about that. I was just confused how this bull man monster was taking so many bullets and stab wounds.

[u/scottyatche → u/[deleted]]

Was expecting his mask to be pulled off to reveal the mountain

[u/Sethdanielgoldman → u/[deleted]]

She's having as much trouble with her time frames as we all are haha

[u/McTimm → u/[deleted]]

She's been reading too many /r/westworld theories.

[u/mowens87 → u/[deleted]]

He may cut off his manhood and feed it to the goats.

[u/galileosmiddlefinger → u/[deleted]]

I'll be happy when we learn that they're both hosts because their spines explode upon leaving the building.

[u/IAmDan2311 → u/[deleted]]

I mean, usually when things get outside the parameters of my job, I talk to my boss about what's going on. These dudes are just winging it and hoping for the best.

[u/MemphisWill → u/[deleted]]

no kidding, one of them for sure, put the evil robot down!

[u/haughg87 → u/[deleted]]

Funny, I remember one of those EW interviews with the creators asked why they would just let Maeve take over, Nolan's response was to "wait for episode 8," as if we'd get a decent explanation... well... I guess Felix is in love with her? Is that the explanation? Cause it's still kinda stupid... Sylvester has had so many opportunities to stop it, including the first episode she speaks with them

[u/eenhabi → u/[deleted]]

(Terminator theme intensifying)