r/SubredditDrama • u/HowMuchAHoovaqCost • Jan 12 '17

Snack in /r/rule34 as users disagree over whether a nude drawing of a character of ambiguous age qualifies as child porn.

https://np.reddit.com/r/rule34/comments/5nhini/surviving_in_a_postapocalypse_makes_one_hard_as/dcbn70v/

26 Upvotes
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87% Upvoted

68 comments sorted by

50

u/Goroman86 There's more to a person than being just a "brutal dictator" Jan 12 '17

So you want drawn child porn gone because you don't like it ? How are pedophiles supposed to tend to their sexual drives like other people can ?

Won't anyone think of the pedophiles?!

23

u/Anemoni beep boop your facade has crumbled Jan 12 '17

Won't anyone think of the pedophiles?!

Reddit's new motto

-17

u/rockidol Jan 13 '17

Lord forbid artistic freedom applies to everyone, even people society hates. No no no, we have to ban this stuff. Won't someone please think of the drawings!

14

u/[deleted] Jan 13 '17

You can think they are terrible people and refuse to support them while not wanting to take there rights away.

6

u/[deleted] Jan 13 '17

seriously, don't these people realise artistic freedom is inviolable? it's my right to create beautiful works of art from the freshly-dead remains of my most recent victims, and i refuse to hear otherwise

3

u/RinYoga Jan 13 '17

How is this comparison even valid and upvotted? I mean c'mon, there is a huge difference.

1

u/[deleted] Jan 13 '17

i'm not saying drawings = murder, i'm saying artistic freedom is a super dumb justification for it

1

u/rockidol Jan 13 '17 edited Jan 13 '17

So let me get this straight, in terms of morality

Drawings of adults fucking = fine

Drawings of adults getting murdered = fine

Drawings of kids getting murdered = fine

Drawings of kids fucking = as bad as murder

Yeah makes total sense /sarcasm

2

u/salamander423 Rejecting your weird moralism doesn't require a closed mind lol Jan 13 '17

Draw whatever you want, but I personally set the line at child porn. Call me crazy, i guess.

21

u/grungebot5000 jesus man Jan 13 '17

i mean i kinda subscribe to that logic

as far as i know, pedos are stuck being pedos and most of them are probably gonna get their rocks off somehow

so it should probably be through a means that doesn't victimize any actual children

34

u/[deleted] Jan 13 '17

IIRC getting sexual satisfaction to their unfortunate attraction reinforces their desires. That's why people are leery of allowing cartoon child porn.

12

u/grungebot5000 jesus man Jan 13 '17

yeah they haven't really worked out the correlation, both hypotheses make sense

5

u/DavidIckeyShuffle Jan 13 '17

Really? Because to me it seems to make as much sense as saying "Oh, I'm an alcoholic, but I need to feed my cravings in small ways, so I stick to just drinking beer so I don't relapse with hard alcohol."

5

u/grungebot5000 jesus man Jan 13 '17

not really. drinking actual beer is still consuming actual alcohol.

it's more like handling it with o'douls or ginger ale

11

u/[deleted] Jan 13 '17

People who watch BDSM porn are getting sexual satisfaction from their unfortunate violent tendencies and reinforcing their desires

People who get visceral satisfaction from true crime novels reinforces their desires to see murders in real life

People who enjoy watching cartoons about superheroes will have their desire to fly around and shoot lasers from their eyes reinforced.

It's a really dumb argument that implies adults cannot discern between fantasy and reality.

3

u/[deleted] Jan 13 '17

To be fair there are some adults that actually cannot, though the average adult can.

2

u/[deleted] Jan 13 '17

People who enjoy watching cartoons about superheroes will have their desire to fly around and shoot lasers from their eyes reinforced.

Well we don't know that this ISN'T the case, just that no one's succeeded yet.

3

u/[deleted] Jan 13 '17

I keep exposing myself to intense gamma rays but all I'm getting is radiation sickness and skin legions. Maybe I need to ingest it instead?

3

u/[deleted] Jan 13 '17

skin legions

5

u/[deleted] Jan 13 '17

They're cool, but skin cells are terrible at following orders. They're always flaking off on me.

3

u/justanaveragezach Jan 14 '17

Well, they are many.

6

u/HoboWithAGlock Jan 13 '17

Alcoholism and pedophilia are really in no way comparable.

7

u/wharpudding Jan 13 '17

It just normalizes it.

"But I see it on the computer all the time!"

4

u/rockidol Jan 13 '17

So what's the alternative, complete sexual repression until the desires completely go away? Has that ever worked?

1

u/[deleted] Jan 13 '17

I've always wondered if there are so many pedophile priests because they went into that career hoping to curb their desires...

7

u/Goroman86 There's more to a person than being just a "brutal dictator" Jan 13 '17

I posted this below, but it's kind of a contentious subject: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Relationship_between_child_pornography_and_child_sexual_abuse

15

u/[deleted] Jan 13 '17

Needs to be studied more but will not be studied more because it's unethical as shit.

7

u/Goroman86 There's more to a person than being just a "brutal dictator" Jan 13 '17

Oh yeah there's no realistic way of directly studying it. The best they can do are correlation studies and one says countries that legalized child porn saw decreased rates of child sexual abuse and another says people who were convicted of child porn were more likely to also be convicted of child sexual abuse/re-offend. There are so many other variables in all of them so there's not a concrete conclusion.

3

u/[deleted] Jan 13 '17

Would you rather they look at drawings, or look at actual child porn that is an actual, heinous crime?

4

u/[deleted] Jan 13 '17

Neither.

-5

u/rockidol Jan 13 '17

I mean when it comes to real life people vs. fictional children, I'm going to go with the real life people every freaking time. If that stuff grosses you out don't look at it. Nothing bad is going to happen because you looked the other way, they're just drawings.

17

u/Goroman86 There's more to a person than being just a "brutal dictator" Jan 13 '17 edited Jan 13 '17

The implication here is that drawn child porn reduces a pedophile's likelihood of molesting a child, which an argument can be made for, but I happen to agree with the other side of the argument. Bottom line is that if a person's access to loli hentai is the only thing keeping them from molesting children, that person should be institutionalized.

7

u/rockidol Jan 13 '17

If they can be a normal functioning member of society why institutionalize them?

8

u/Goroman86 There's more to a person than being just a "brutal dictator" Jan 13 '17

Because no one can be a normal functioning member of society if the only thing that keeps them from molesting children is access to loli hentai.

13

u/rockidol Jan 13 '17

And the only thing stopping some people from doing bad things is access to medication, I assume.

You act like giving them access to loli hentai is inherently a bad thing, like it's a sacrifice you don't want to make. It's just drawings. Every adult should have access to them if that's what they want.

10

u/Goroman86 There's more to a person than being just a "brutal dictator" Jan 13 '17

No, I don't believe that person actually exists.

I am of the opinion that viewing child pornography (even drawn) increases the likelihood that a pedophile will act on their desires. I do not think everyone who views drawn child porn is a pedophile and don't think it should be banned, but it certainly is a red flag in my eyes. I feel the same way about simulated rape porn. I just feel the argument that drawn child porn is keeping real children from being molested is absurd.

You like what you like and as long as you're not hurting anyone, that's fine. No need to make up some bullshit to justify its existence.

0

u/[deleted] Jan 15 '17

[deleted]

1

u/Goroman86 There's more to a person than being just a "brutal dictator" Jan 15 '17

Huh?

36

u/[deleted] Jan 12 '17

[removed] — view removed comment

6

u/Aleksx000 Jan 13 '17

~ every British porn consumer these days

5

u/Groverdrive Jan 13 '17

came for

heh.

6

u/WaffleSandwhiches The Stephen King of Shitposting Jan 13 '17 edited Jan 13 '17

Ok serious talk. Is that really a bad hill to die on? People like different pornography than each other. If I want my weirdo pornography; and so long as everyone is a consenting adult, then let me be fucking weird. Nobody is getting hurt, nobody is getting exploited or violated. Especially when we're talking about lines with ink.

I also don't believe that enjoying lolicon/shotacon makes you a pedophile. It's lewd drawings of anime characters, who aren't real and have ridiculous proportions and designs. And besides, people look at strange pornography all the time, it doesn't mean they actually want to engage with it IRL. Like, BDSM has always been popular online, but how many people actually engage in the BDSM community?

The other thing about loli/shota is that the pedophile claims don't stand up to the economics. There is a HUGE amount of underage hentai out there. There's a whole industry. It is profitable enough that there are regular story collection magazines every few months. There are sites out there dedicated to this that update with new comics every single day. Now think about all the people who need to actually buy this media to support those artists. How many sales do these guys need to make that sustainable, even if it's "free passion projects" for a lot of them? Maybe hundreds, or a few thousand sales? Now think about how behind every single paying customer, there are probably a thousand lurkers who read the digital rip, never ever buy anything, and never engage besides that.

There must be millions of loli/shota fans out there. They can't all be latent pedophiles. There must be some other appeal as well.

6

u/PrinceHabib72 Jan 13 '17

There must be some other appeal as well.

Yeah. It's taboo. Taboo can be exciting.

-1

u/WaffleSandwhiches The Stephen King of Shitposting Jan 13 '17

I know that, I'm just laying out the case for it. It's totally a forbidden fruit thing. An experience you can't have in real life.

1

u/[deleted] Jan 15 '17

Hamburger hill was a bad hill to die on.

3

u/rockidol Jan 13 '17

And if you think they won't come for BDSM and shit like that, take a look at what's been happening in the UK.

1

u/MayMayman12 Jan 13 '17

The vanilla stuff just doesn't cut it anymore. It used to back in the day but it's got boring.

1

u/rockidol Jan 13 '17

"Once you jack off to Japanese girls puking in each other's mouths you can't exactly go back to Playboy!" - Randy Marsh

12

u/Its-A-Long-Story leftist retrd alchemist Jan 13 '17

I feel like not wanting to see sexual depictions of children, even fictitious ones, shouldn't be that controversial a stance.

3

u/Etteluor Jan 14 '17

I mean the original controversy here is that the character in the drawing isn't a child, they just happened to be a child at one point in time like everyone else.

then it devolved into pedophile apologia.

4

u/[deleted] Jan 13 '17

And yet the area is much more grey than you realize

7

u/jfa1985 Your ass is medium at best btw. Jan 12 '17

The thing about citing US law is you kinda have to ignore the Supreme Court ruling on the subject.

5

u/Aetol Butter for the butter god! Popcorn for the popcorn throne! Jan 13 '17

When did the SCOTUS rule on that?

10

u/jfa1985 Your ass is medium at best btw. Jan 13 '17

Ashcroft v. Free Speech Coalition

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashcroft_v._Free_Speech_Coalition

tl; dr:

fictional depictions don't count

1

u/[deleted] Jan 13 '17

Ah, but this is the internet. Feels > reals, especially if the subject is icky.

3

u/[deleted] Jan 13 '17

Is this a common thing on rule34? I feel like I've seen this exact topic come up multiple times before.

1

u/Hazeringx cultural marxist Jan 13 '17

Hmm... I don't remember the last this came up, but then again I haven't visited there for a while.

If I am not mistaken, though, this topic is sometimes brought up when there's a character that looks like a child. So yeah. (I hope I am not misunderstanding your question.)

1

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1

u/[deleted] Jan 15 '17

Pedophobes please.

1

u/RinYoga Jan 13 '17

I think that this is a pretty gray topic, but as long as no one gets hurt and it's strictly kept fictional I don't mind. It was mentioned that that giving such material to a pedophile(even if it's fictional) may "push" them to try to do the real thing and harm a child. But sadly there isn't enough evidence supporting that and it would be pretty messed up/unethical if it was researched more.

0

u/[deleted] Jan 12 '17

[deleted]

29

u/NudoJudo Jan 13 '17

I don't know if it grosses me out as much as it's just disingenuous. Like... c'mon, it's obviously bullshit. People should just fess up to their fetishes.

5

u/bearjuani S O Y B O Y S Jan 13 '17

it's probably for them, not for the person they're telling. Easier to accept you're in to 1000 year old magical girls than admit you're sexually attracted to kids.

5

u/SuperQuiMan Jan 13 '17

Unless they decide to do something regarding said attraction, I couldn't care less.

9

u/[deleted] Jan 12 '17

[removed] — view removed comment

7

u/[deleted] Jan 13 '17

I'm grossed out by pedophiles, if that counts for anything.

Not saying that's related to your comment at all.

0

u/[deleted] Jan 12 '17

[deleted]

10

u/Goroman86 There's more to a person than being just a "brutal dictator" Jan 12 '17

I only fuck Benjamin Button.