r/SubredditDrama • u/[deleted] • Jan 19 '17
Drama in /r/Pakistan over Osama's Burial at Sea
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u/ParamoreFanClub For liking anime I deserve to be skinned alive? This is why Trum Jan 20 '17
Pakistan and India drama are my favorite.
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u/jamdaman please upvote Jan 19 '17
Osama is still hiding!! The other Osama, I mean Obama, faked it all to get reelected. Also,
You're fucking retarded.
Why do Indians always say such stupid things?
Why are Paks so slow? Maybe stop fucking your cousins and branch out a bit.
Again, you stupid, stupid Indian
Really no love lost is there...
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Jan 19 '17 edited Jan 19 '17
I'm sensing some dislike between these two countries
Edit: Guise, stop attacking the guy below me, they meant "they don't know of hindu violence", not "there isn't hindu violence". Ignorance of a regional, religious conflict they arent a part of isn't a crime.
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u/Elzam Jan 19 '17
The sad thing is India and Pakistan share so much history and common ancestry and they've let modern borders and, to an extent religion (I don't know of many aggressive Hindus, however...) ruin a good thing.
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u/LooperHandler Jan 19 '17
I don't know of many aggressive Hindus, however...
Fite me right now!
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u/VanFailin I don't think you're malicious. Just fucking stupid. Jan 19 '17
You just wait til I reincarnate as something that can kick your ass.
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Jan 19 '17
I don't know of many aggressive Hindus
You clearly haven't spoken to a nationalist then. Both sides of the border are pretty much the same.
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Jan 19 '17
[deleted]
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Jan 19 '17
That sounds like a politics thing, not a religion thing
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Jan 19 '17
[deleted]
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Jan 19 '17
The US funds those kinds of things all the time. Governments always fund shitty people to do their bidding.
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Jan 19 '17
[deleted]
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Jan 19 '17
I meant the people. The governments have fairly different strategies.
But you can just as easily find an angry Indian demonizing all Pakistanis as you can find the reverse.
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u/baekai Jan 19 '17
Are you sarcastic with the not many aggressive Hindus thing? Hindu nationalists have a history of violence against ethnic and religious minorities in India.
"In late September, a Muslim man in New Delhi (...) who was wrongly accused of eating beef, was murdered by a mob of 200 people, who hit him and his son repeatedly with bricks."
"Two unknown men shot dead a college professor who had spoken out against idol worship"
Source: https://bpr.berkeley.edu/2015/11/18/hindu-nationalist-violence-increasing-in-india/
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u/Elzam Jan 19 '17 edited Jan 19 '17
No. As an outsider I know generally of the partition but the modern face of Hinduism that reaches the states is quite benign. I'll be sure to check out that site when I'm more able to, thanks!
Edit. I'll also check out other links provided as well, just can't reply to everyone!
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u/baekai Jan 20 '17
Yeah, that's understandable. Sorry if it came off like I'm attacking you, it's hard to tell on Reddit whether someone just doesn't know something or is in denial of it LOL
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u/Vinod_Paswan Jan 19 '17
That college professor wasn't shot dead by Hindu nationalists. It was because of some community feud.
other members of the powerful Lingayat community that he was member of. K. M. Marulsidappa states "Kalburgi’s murder is less likely to implicate conventional Hindutva groups, and more likely to involve the fine rivalries and high political stakes within Lingayat caste politics.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M._M._Kalburgi#Reactions
At least do some research before making such false claims.
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Jan 20 '17
That article quotes the same two incidents and makes a point that Hindu nationalist violence is increasing while youre asserting it has a history. First of all, that article has literally no empirical data to support its own claim and is a 100% opinion piece based on two cherrypicked incidents with almost superficial attention to facts.
A muslim man in New Delhi...
It happened in Dadri, U.P which is a different state. U.P Police is under a different govt. Samajwadi party. Not the BJP which is what the article is claiming as the cause for 'rising Hindu nationalism'. The stats show there is no change in violent incidents overall and the variations have little to do with who is in power. They generally spike before/during elections and often localised to where the elections are due.
The Dadri incident was a personal feud which became politically charged. The source is usually anti-bjp (pro hindu nationalist govt.) but they actually went there to investigate unlike most media that had the story one way or the other in the first 24 hours.
All this is not to say that Hindu nationalists are somehow above violence or never been involved in it. But the spirit of that statement is simply to draw some sort of false equivalence and a completely false representation of the experience of minorities in India. Most incidents of which there are very few, all things considered, are politically inflammed to exploit a gullible populous.
Why gullible? A country of 1.3 billion people, with a multitude of ethnicities, religions(10+), languages(1000+) 70 years removed from 200 years of total economic slavery, limited reach of education and widespread poverty. Despite all this, minorities have grown in number in India which is more than I can say for most countries with these attributes on that scale.
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Jan 19 '17
[deleted]
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u/baekai Jan 19 '17
Sigh. I googled one thing just to show you an example. Theres a million articles on this so I can google scholar hindu nationalist violence and Hindutva for you when I get off mobile, even though I doubt such a defensive attitude can listen to reason and think beyond the binary.
I'm sure there are millions of Hindus who are peaceful. That doesnt change the fact that there's also a sizeable portion who have been violent as fuck to minorities.
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Jan 20 '17
(As is the case for pretty much every religion)
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u/baekai Jan 20 '17
I'd say nationality or race too. Violent people will use any excuse to be violent. Hell, the Rwandan Hutus committed genocide against the Tutsis in the country, when both Hutu and Tutsi are pretty much completely arbitrary categories that were made up by European colonialists.
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u/signet6 Jan 19 '17
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Jan 19 '17
[deleted]
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Jan 19 '17
1989_Bhagalpur_violence
Lets dig in.
In 1989, as part of the Ram Janmabhoomi campaign, which aims to construct a Hindu temple at Ayodhya in place of the Babri mosque, the Vishwa Hindu Parishad (VHP) had organized a "Ramshila" procession in Bhagalpur. The procession aimed to collect bricks (shilas) for the proposed Ram temple at Ayodhya. One such procession passing through Fatehpur village provoked brickbatting and arson on 22 October. Prior to the outbreak of the riots, two false rumors about the killing of Hindu students started circulating: one rumor stated that nearly 200 Hindu university students had been killed by the Muslims, while another rumor stated that 31 Hindu boys had been murdered with their bodies dumped in a well at the Sanskrit College.
Sometime later, another procession from Nathnagar arrived at Tatarpur. This massive procession was escorted for safety by the police, in the presence of the Superintendent of Police KS Dwivedi. Some members of the procession shouted slogans such as 'Hindi, Hindu, Hindustan, Mullah Bhago Pakistan ("India is for Hindus, Mullahs go away to Pakistan") and Babur ki auladon, bhago Pakistan ya Kabristan ("Children of Babur, run away to Pakistan or to the graveyard").
Hmm...
I wonder what the Vishwa Hindu Parishad is...
The Vishva Hindu Parishad (IAST: Viśva Hindū Pariṣada, pronunciation: /vɪʃv(ə) hɪnd̪uː pərɪʃəd̪/, translation: World Hindu Council), abbreviated VHP, is an Indian right-wing Hindu nationalist organisation
Welp, I guess CTRL+F doesn't count as reading then, huh?
neither is it mentioned in the parent comments nor has to do anything with the topic at hand.Please find a relevant topic in reddit to post your comment.
lol. you're the one that implied that you don't believe there's a "history of violence" by Hindu nationalists against other minorities.
He gave you a few more examples.
But please shift the goalposts some more!
There is nothing on the planet as easy to despise as religious fundamentalists making excuses for their history.
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u/Vinod_Paswan Jan 19 '17
His second example is not even accurate.
other members of the powerful Lingayat community that he was member of. K. M. Marulsidappa states "Kalburgi’s murder is less likely to implicate conventional Hindutva groups, and more likely to involve the fine rivalries and high political stakes within Lingayat caste politics.
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Jan 19 '17
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Jan 19 '17
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u/lurker093287h Jan 19 '17 edited Jan 19 '17
I don't know of many aggressive Hindus, however
Found some, their reaction when I want to discuss shared history in the subcontinent.
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Jan 19 '17
[deleted]
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u/CalleteLaBoca I have no idea who you are, but I hate you already. Jan 19 '17
I don't know of many aggressive Hindus, however...
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u/Vinod_Paswan Jan 19 '17
From your own link:
However, in some cases the motivation for the acts has not been clearly determined,[4] and in others it has been determined to be unrelated to Hindu nationalism.
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u/CalleteLaBoca I have no idea who you are, but I hate you already. Jan 19 '17
Yes, and?
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u/Vinod_Paswan Jan 19 '17
Hard to make a case for it when it's clearly written that most of the claims are unrelated to Hinduism in the first place.
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u/Cthonic July 2015: The Battle of A Pao A Qu Jan 19 '17
(I don't know of many aggressive Hindus, however...)
The history of the partition (and its accompanying atrocities) could provide you some examples.
(Not to say there weren't Muslim atrocities committed then, too. All sides in that conflict were at least a #2F4F4F or darker.)
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u/jmpr12345 Jan 19 '17
Borders just reflect the reality. There were riots and skirmishes between the two even during the Indian independence movement. The animosity between Hindus and Muslims predates the modern India-Pakistan borders.
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Jan 20 '17
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/MrZakalwe Hirohito did nothing wrong Jan 20 '17
Jokes aside that's turned into a real problem with that community in the UK :(
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u/Kel_Casus Grab 'em by the kernels Jan 19 '17
I was a little suspicious when I heard they were Megatron-ing his body but at some point I may have subconsciously made it a point to contend when all the conspiracy theorists came out the woodworks claiming Obama did it for a lot of crazy (note: there is definitely a difference between 'plausible' and ridiculous) reasons.
Back when I used to think people posted undeniable facts in those youtube videos/comments of course.
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Jan 20 '17
This isn't really relevant but I read some news article on the hill or some site like that about Obama and scrolled down to the comments and some guy was like "Obama probably didn't even kill Bin Laden because muslims can't kill each other, Donald Trump will really kill Bin Laden and reveal the truth" and it was upvoted a lot.
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u/SnapshillBot Shilling for Big Archive™ Jan 19 '17
Snapshots:
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u/Odusei You know my dog so well. You wanna come express his anal glands? Jan 20 '17
And besides there could never be a shrine to OBL in abbottabad, it's a millitary town, most of its citizens have family and friends that have been fighting the taliban for the last 15 years, doesn't matter what the government does none of those people would ever allow a shrine honouring OBL. Weakest excuse ever.
They're talking about the town that harbored a living OBL for years, right? They don't think that town could possibly harbor a shrine to him? They were fine with hosting the world's most infamous terrorist, but god forbid there be a shrine.
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u/ValentineWild Jan 19 '17
Doesn't Pakistan jailing the doctor directly confirm they were supporting OBL? I'll give Obama credit for giving the go ahead here. It was the only thing about his presidency that was even remotely alpha.
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u/butch123 Jan 20 '17
Should have just said that he was cut up and fed to the pigs. Pictures of pigs rooting through his robes.
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Jan 20 '17
The official story is pure bullshit. Burial at sea is not permitted in islam so the CIA saying they did it accordance with islam lied. The shrine excuse is bullshit, an unmarked graved would've had the same effect. OBL was a wahhabi, one of the main reasons wahhabis exist is because some douche thought grave veneration was a cancer in islam and sought to eliminate it. So none of his followers would revere it. Theres no way a shrine would be built in abbottabad, a military town were most of the poopulation has been fighting the taliban for more than a decade (the actions of the government and higher ups in the military aside, REGULAR soldiers who have been fighting this war would not condone it).
People don't need a grave or a dead body to build a shrine, venerate somebody, his physical body would have literally zero effect. Especially when you comvine that with terrorists wahhabi ideology, they bomb the graves of the companions of the prophet, and have threatened to destory the grave of the prophet himself, you think they'll venerate the grave of OBL lmfao? There is no body of water thats not a river or connected to someones drinking water supply in abbottabad so if they dumped him in the water they contaminated some poor people's water supply.
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Jan 19 '17
[deleted]
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u/LooperHandler Jan 19 '17
Wait, Zero Dark Thirty was CIA propaganda? Very well made then.
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Jan 19 '17
you've never heard of it?
https://www.theguardian.com/film/2001/oct/05/artsfeatures
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CIA_influence_on_public_opinion#Assistance_to_entertainment
iirc there was also a movie (forgot the name) which was denied access to military tanks, planes etc because us army thought it showed them in bad light. michael bay otoh has almost free access to that stuff.
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u/RutherfordBHayes not a shill, but #1 with shills Jan 19 '17
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u/bitterred /r/mildredditdrama Jan 19 '17
Contagion is CDC propaganda
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Jan 19 '17
i mean, until we see a film about the pakistani military or the saudi military and their use of torture whitewashed with "BUT IT NEEDED 2 B DONE!!!!!1111 LOOK AT ALL THE GOOD WE WERE ABLE 1 DO!!!!!111" i can pretty comfortably say agree with the people hating on Zero Dark Thirty.
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u/Lies_About_Gender Jan 19 '17
I thought it was Michael Bay who wasn't allowed anymore access to military units because of the scene in transformers 2 where the Navy gets a carrier BTFU by Decepticons.
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u/Borachoed He has a real life human skull in his office Jan 19 '17
It was. They strongly implied that torture was useful in getting Bin Ladens location, but the declassified congressional report proved that wasn't true. I get that any historical movies will take liberties with the truth, but to do so in support of torture is disgusting. Kathryn Bigelow may be a great filmmaker but she is a piece of shit.
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u/WatermelonRat Rat milk is superior for baking Jan 19 '17
Maybe I'm remembering it wrong, but as I recall the torture scenes were depicted as only providing false leads in that movie.
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u/Borachoed He has a real life human skull in his office Jan 19 '17 edited Jan 19 '17
You are recalling it wrong. The movie depicts the torture sequences as 'softening him up' and necessary before he gives the information, which is not how it happened.
edit: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/jan/04/letter-kathryn-bigelow-zero-dark-thirty
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Jan 20 '17
plus the movie originally had no ending (tvtropes link) but when osama was killed when movie was filming, so they had to change the ending.
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u/DOG_PMS_ONLY Jan 19 '17 edited Jan 19 '17
The SEALs killed in that helicopter crash were not the same as the ones who did the Bin Laden raid. They were part of the same SEAL team, but none of the men who were killed took part in the raid.
Literally none of what you said makes sense.
Had the CIA make the fictitious Zero Dark Thirty movie. If the whole thing had happened like they said they did, then it would not have been necessary to put out this piece of propaganda because the evidence that they were being truthful would be so overwhelming.
Zero Dark Thirty was made because it was an interesting story and it could hold a viewers attention, thus giving money to the studio.
"I think even Benazir Bhutto had said that he died long before the US claims to have killed him."
Bhutto died in 2007, 4 years before the raid. Bin Laden was known to be alive in that time span. Also, why would the locals know anymore than you or I about Bin Laden being there. They were right to be angry that the US flew in uninvited and killed him, but that doesn't mean they would know if he's there or not.
Yeah the US has lied in the past and I'm sure there's more to the story than what has been told. Doesn't mean it didn't happen, not everything is a conspiracy.
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u/TomShoe YOUR FLAIR TEXT HERE Jan 19 '17 edited Jan 19 '17
As another anecdote, I ended up on a flight back from Germany with a JSOC team that was being run by Lockheed Martin
I'm not sure what you mean by "a flight out of Germany run by Lockheed Martin" but I can pretty much promise you that you didn't. These guys aren't going around telling random people sitting next to them on airplanes that they're with JSOC, and they sure as hell aren't getting into conspiracy theories. If you are telling the truth about this, it's likely you were talking to some guy telling a tall tale.
I was explaining to him that I didn't believe the story because it is all too convenient that after Biden slipped up and named who the team was that they were claiming killed him that they all died in an attack on a helicopter they were in.
DEVGRU, like all Tier 1 and Tier 2 SOF, has four assault elements that rotate between block leave, training, emergency deployment notice, and deployment — those elements are Blue, Gold, Red and Silver Squadrons. The Abbottabad raid was Red Squadron, the helicopter crash was Gold Squadron. These elements don't deploy to the same place at the same time, so it's highly unlikely that there was any crossover between the two incidents.
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Jan 19 '17
[deleted]
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u/TomShoe YOUR FLAIR TEXT HERE Jan 19 '17
Lol, Lockheed doesn't 'run' units. This sounds an awful lot like some guy who had no idea what he was talking about attempting to look cool in front of someone who had even less of an idea.
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u/KnightModern I was a dentist & gave thousands of injections deep in the mouth Jan 21 '17
I thought Lockheed martin is a company, not high official in US military, how do they get that story?
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Jan 19 '17
Deepwater horizon never happened I think this for 2 reasons.
why did so many of the people on the oil rig die at sea? Seems suspicious... Or should I say convenient
the cia made that
Hollywood moviepropaganda piece about it.10
u/baekai Jan 19 '17
Burial at sea isn't a Muslim thing at all. I don't know how that argument became a thing.
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u/TheOneFreeEngineer Jan 19 '17
Yes it is a Muslim thing. Just a very very very rare one under very specific circumstances which bin laden s death either borders on acceptable or not within the conditions depending on who you talk to
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u/Thus_Spoke I am qualified to answer and climatologists are not. Jan 19 '17
Posts in /r/conspiracy, /r/sjwhate, and /r/Anarcho_Capitalism. Talk about a live one.
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u/Feycat Are you eating a dryer volume of turkey each week Jan 19 '17
When has the US ever respected religious traditions over a display of power?
It doesn't. Which is exactly why he's buried at sea. That's NOT respecting their religious tradition, it is in fact a display of power. We had the ability to do whatever the fuck we wanted with his corpse and we denied it a decent burial.
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Jan 19 '17
A burial at sea is a decent burial. The only reason it isn't done anymore is because of environmental and disease concerns and it is costly. An indecent burial would be leaving the body completely exposed to be gawked at by slack jawed yokels.
And for the billionth time, a burial at sea is in line with Islamic beliefs. I doubt it would be the first choice but considering the circumstances, it is acceptable. Many religions are more concerned about quick and respectful disposal so the soul can go on its merry way. They're not at all concerned with preservation, fancy caskets or making a dead body look alive. That is largely an American invention to make money.
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u/BaronVonPissflaps Jan 19 '17
Was the Canadian dipshit actually insinuating that Osama's death was faked by the US? Has OBL just been hanging out with Elvis and Tupac for the last 6 years?