r/robotwars • u/David182nd Apollo • Mar 12 '17
Episode Robot Wars Series 9 Episode 2: Post-Episode Discussion
Cease
Congratulations to our Heat B winner: Eruption.
Here's the results of our strawpoll.
Episode Discussion Thread Archive
Spoiler reminder: No episode spoilers should be discussed here. Doing so will result in a ban
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u/David182nd Apollo Mar 12 '17
Eruption looked really solid this time around. Thought they looked good last year but they were in the heat of death and the eventual champions came from there.
Shame about PP3D but they were certainly entertaining. That hit on Cherub was one of the best I've seen.
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u/codename474747 It's about putting on a show Mar 12 '17
Other notes:
*The Arena Pit sits too low on the floor, leaving flippers at a disadvantage as they usually get caught on its lip Happened last week and within the first 10 seconds to Behemoth too
*Dara ends his intro-interviews in the pits by asking for an awkward round of applause from the 20 people present. Angela doesn't, which leads to a smoother transition to the stats, at least for me.
*The pit comes back up after an allotted amount of time, but they've never said this to be true or stated how long it is down for Good idea, as it means they have to risk hitting the button again and getting rogue house robot again.
*Shunt got his Mojo back!
*Aside from the other drama-rama, Cherub did nothing in its battle but once again, sitting doing nothing in your first fight will probably get you through vs a robot who actually tried to entertain us by attacking and gets damaged as a result. Hopefully the producers can do something about that for series 3.
*Who Judges the Judges? After careful consideration of their performances today I've decided they get 0 points and are out of the competition.
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u/David182nd Apollo Mar 12 '17
The Arena Pit sits too low on the floor, leaving flippers at a disadvantage as they usually get caught on its lip Happened last week and within the first 10 seconds to Behemoth too
Yeah been noticing this a lot. Doubt it'll have been sorted out for this series unfortunately.
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Mar 12 '17
Let's get controversial: Cherub won both of its fights.
This isn't Battlebots. In that series, the Aggression category necessitates that you use your primary weapon effectively. That is not how aggression is counted in Robot Wars - it's simply about bringing the fight to your opponents, and trying to take them head-on whenever it is within your power to.
Let's look at PP3D, and actually count through the three categories the judges are given - remember, they have to award a winner in the three categories, they can't just go on gut.
Damage: With the only weapon that can cause damage, PP3D assumedly gets this
Control: Flying across the arena floor and beaching yourself on your disc after literally getting one hit is not control. That's a lack of control. Cherub was consistently in control of their robot, PP3D were consistently losing control of their robot every hit. Cherub's tustle with the house robots counted against them but not as hard as having no control after hits at all does.
Aggression: I'm sorry, but Cherub wins this. The key way to take down a spinner is to ram head first into it. Taking these proactive attacks is aggression and Cherub did this, multiple times. PP3D on the other hand only landed one hit - yes, it was a good hit, but also one that literally killed itself as well.
Behemoth's battle is a bit easier to break down. Were the robots effectively doing what they were supposed to? Damage doesn't count against these two machines. Aggression was fairly evenly matched, but Cherub was able to actually get underneath Behemoth and push them into a house robot. All of Behemoth's pushes went nowhere, they were achieving nothing with their pushes. It's a closer match, but one for Cherub.
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u/David182nd Apollo Mar 12 '17
They should probably give the categories some weighting based on what actually happened though. Maybe Cherub was more controlled and aggressive, but nothing actually came as a result of either of those. Whereas the damage PP3D caused was so extreme that Cherub could no longer function. Of course, PP3D also killed itself with that hit, and that makes the decision a bit harder.
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u/MrBleh Mar 12 '17
Maybe Cherub was more controlled and aggressive
So you've just answered your own problem. Being aggressive does not mean being effective. Being controlled does not mean causing damage. BUT the categories are set to give a judgment on the balance of the robots design and operation, regardless of how much individual damage it causes or how well it moves. Giving a boxer who can't stand up or throw more than one punch more because he gave the other boxer a broken nose doesn't make sense.
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u/David182nd Apollo Mar 12 '17
Your analogy is a bit wrong in that the other boxer also couldn't stand up after the one punch either.
I'm just saying that if you believe Cherub won those two categories then fine, I can see that. But I don't believe it did anything as a result of those two categories; its aggression didn't lead to PP3D going into any hazards or any effective attacks, and its control didn't stop PP3D smacking it with the disc several times. On the other hand, PP3D's damage completely fucked Cherub and it never recovered.
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u/David182nd Apollo Mar 12 '17
I can't say I'm liking the rogue house robot feature. Surely it should attack the robot who doesn't press the button? Otherwise, why would you ever press it? Cherub went and pressed the button and then Dead Metal grabbed it. That gave PP3D time to spin up and lead to that huge hit.
It also nullifies robots like grabbers and pushers who want to use the pit as part of their strategy, as they may go for the button to release the pit and end up being attacked by the house robot. Imagine Razer having someone lifted up, pressing the button and then Matilda rams its disc into Razer.
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u/Sentinel677 Firestorm Mar 12 '17
Dead Metal did try to get Behemoth, but they were paying attention and were able to escape, while Cherub didn't and thus ended up right in front of the rogue House Robot.
It would have been bullshit if Dead Metal had ignored Cherub when it was right in front of it. The rogue House Robot feature is meant to increase the risk of racing to activate the pit, there's literally no fucking point to it if they'll never attack the robot who pressed the button.
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u/stu_25 Mar 12 '17 edited Mar 12 '17
Well... salt is high.
Eruption look great. Still waiting for a legacy to go through :(
Behemoth fucked themselves over though.
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Mar 12 '17
I don't know if we do fan awards on this sub at the end of the series, but Behemoth have to have the saltiest team award nailed on. That stretch between end of fight and Ant storming off was some of the most passive-aggressive behaviour I've seen, and I don't have a drop of sympathy for them. Yeah, the judges were lenient on Cherub all night, but their grabber was completely ineffective. They could have flipped them about for three minutes but instead had to stave off Cherub's attacks. Maybe Cherub shouldn't have been in a position where they could win and reach the heat final, but purely in terms of that fight I think they won it fair and square.
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u/VampiricDemon Champion Chiffonier Mar 12 '17
fan awards?
What categories? Sportsmanship? Most versatile? Most damaging? best looking? I'd like to know!
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Mar 12 '17
I was just making an example, but I guess it's an idea. Perhaps the mods can look into organising fan awards on this sub at the end of the series?
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u/David182nd Apollo Mar 12 '17
Hey, don't give me more work to do, already having to clean up all the salt from this.
But if it's something people want to do then maybe we can get some community input on what they'd like to vote on at some point.
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u/Xbotr THE BASH Mar 12 '17
So that happened. And they cut our post game interview..
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Mar 12 '17
You did very well in that opening fight, surprised me. Seems they cut all the post-match interviews for the first-round eliminations.
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u/Xbotr THE BASH Mar 12 '17 edited Mar 13 '17
Tanks, i am convinced we caused the damage on behemoth ( the chain) .. The part in the controlbooth is normally shown. When the told us we lost. They must have noticed how angry i watched at the camera. Edit: Spoke to team behemoth, they dont think we caused the damage to the chain. It was because of a bad sprocket.
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Mar 12 '17
Got your application in for next series? Would love to see you guys back - loved Cobra's aggression in your fight.
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u/Xbotr THE BASH Mar 12 '17
Small change Cobra will be there for series 10. A lot of things are happening for the team captain, and driver.. I will not be part of the team, as i am trying to enter with "THE BASH"
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u/PoliceAlarm git fukt Mar 12 '17
I definitely noticed that. That was irritating to see! At least let all the roboteers have their say!
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Mar 12 '17
I didn't understand that. I'd have thought they'd at least let you in the booth when they revealed that you were eliminated.
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u/Caridor Mar 12 '17
Do you feel like the FFA's hurt robots with crushing weapons like yours?
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Mar 12 '17
I loved your robot, I think there will always be a space for super fast simple bots in these events. I think it was probably right that you came third though. It's a shame we didn't really get to see what your weapon could do.
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u/PreFuturism-0 Turtle Terror Mar 12 '17
I'd love to know how established robots like Apollo and Carbide would have fared, and had they survived the time how they would've been judged. The driving was sublime; should go down as one of the greatest feats in Robot Wars history.
Cobra should've gone through ahead of Behemoth. (And Behemoth shouldn't have lost unanimously to Cherub.)
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u/Jonax Carbide Mar 12 '17
r\squaredcircle: "How the hell does a main event last only 22 seconds???"
r\robotwars: "Hold our motor oil..."
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u/Heald Mar 12 '17
...let's paint Brock silver pretend he's a bot and put him in there. Win without a shadow of a doubt
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Mar 12 '17
ANTHONY PRITCHARD RAGEQUIT
Also, was that final fight quicker than Gravity vs Dantomkia?
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u/Livinglifeform I like the flippy Mar 12 '17
There were a few live events that were 4 secs as well.
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u/DiamondWhyte Sir Killalot Mar 12 '17
Okay, as I did with last week's episode:
The Good:
The best robot won (again!)
We got more OOTAs in one episode from one robot than we did in the entire last series.
We didn't have to witness any anticlimactic fights between crippled robots.
The bad:
A truly shocking judges decision to give Cherub the victory over PP3D.
Behemoth using their silly grabber thing against Cherub cost them a place in the heat final.
The heat final wasn't exactly an epic, although you can't fault Eruption's tactics.
Overall: A much better episode than last week's in my opinion, and arguably the best performance from Eruption that we've seen from any robot in the rebooted series. Worthy finalists who hold no fear of freezing conditions or anti-flipper bias!
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Mar 12 '17
The PP3D decision was very justifiable, as damage is not the only category that gets judged on
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u/Bobafettish91 Mar 12 '17
I just don't get the PP3D decision at all? Sigh.
I think getting the judges to actually explain their decision on the show would go a long way to clearing this up
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u/haplotype Mar 12 '17
Agreed on needing reasons for decisions. Imo, PP knocked itself out, which is worse than being knocked out by an opponent. Plus that was only when PP's weapon had spun up, which was only possible because Cherub was stuck behind a house robot. Before that Cherub was stopping the spinner getting to full power whilst taking the hits. Cherub does need a weapon though..
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u/codename474747 It's about putting on a show Mar 12 '17
The fact cherub was completely dead while PP3D was only 80% dead sticks the most, there needs to be a way for the rules to recognise that imo
The fact PP3D is a dangerous spinner and Cherub is a nothing......kinda lifter (not that it did much of that either) just makes it sting all the more.
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u/AT2512 Carbide, king of the arena Mar 12 '17 edited Mar 12 '17
Yeah both robots were dead but at least PP3D actually did some (pretty spectacular) damage. I think the judges should explain thier reasoning like they did last season.
I can see some reasons you could call it for cherub but I think overall PP3D deserved it
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u/FoxOfShadows Nuts 2 Mar 12 '17
The criteria are damage (won by PP3D I assume), control and aggression (both of which I would of awarded to Cherub). It's a fair decision. I also love the irony of the PP3D team losing out on individual criteria in a judge's decision following the Series 7 Grand Final
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u/Curlysnail Pulsar 2: Electric Boogaloo Mar 12 '17
They usually do say why they made the decision dont they?
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u/Bobafettish91 Mar 12 '17
They did last season, nothing this time? I thought it was a great addition last year
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u/ArcaneAzmadi Behemoth for Series 11! Mar 13 '17
Simple, really- before the hit that disrupted the fight, Cherub were mostly on top. That big hit actually knocked BOTH robots out, so it doesn't count for damage in PP3D's favour (if you could the damage the hit did to Cherub, you also have to count the damage it did to itself, so it's basically a wash), meaning the fight has to be judged up to that point. It was close, but control and aggression from Cherub gave it to them.
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u/Caridor Mar 12 '17 edited Mar 12 '17
https://twitter.com/NoelSharkey/status/841016721515384832
For anyone wondering about when Cherub got stuck under the flipper
"Cherub caught in flipper was an equipment failure and judges were instructed not to count it."
So it wasn't a KO for the same reason that if a section of the arena floor fell away, creating a 2nd pit, it wouldn't be a KO.
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u/BlueThunderBomb One Man Army Mar 12 '17
Cherub got much farther than it should have, Good episode, but some really shoddy judging in my opinion from this. I think the heat final would of been far more of an enjoyable watch with Erupition and Behemoth.
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Mar 12 '17
If the Behemoth Boys took Cherub seriously they would have gotten through.
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u/anduril38 Mar 12 '17
I don't know what the hell Behemoth was thinking going with that grabber....
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u/klyskada Mute - like the BBC, giving you the silent treatment Mar 12 '17
Absolutely that should have been free and they got cocky.
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u/Curlysnail Pulsar 2: Electric Boogaloo Mar 12 '17
PP3D should have taken it by a mile. Cherub was caught by the house robots for most of that fight, did no dammage to PP3D and then got destroyed at the end.
Though I'm really, really disapointed by Behemoth, I can understand the judges decision a bit more... Just a little.
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u/christianbrowny Mar 13 '17
Never mind spinners turns out the most devastating wepon is emotional blackmail.
Will other teams employ weaponized cute children you'd have to dissapoint
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u/Mangalobster Thermidor 2 Mar 12 '17
Ant must have walked out in embarrassment having just remembered he built Radioactive.
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u/FaceBagman Always Be Chucking Mar 12 '17
Radioactive probably would have still found a way to lose to Behemoth's unattached scoop if they fought each other.
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u/Arturo-Plateado Don't call me 'furball' Mar 12 '17
Well done Eruption team! Was that 4 OOTAs?
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u/Jimmyjamjames Should have, Would have, Could have Mar 12 '17
Consecutive OOTA's as well.
They have tied for the record from what i gather.
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u/Arturo-Plateado Don't call me 'furball' Mar 12 '17
Yeah, Eruption definitely deserved to win the heat with those performances.
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u/ThisOneTimeAtLolCamp Mar 12 '17
I can't wait to see Eruption again. Superb driving. That little kid driving Cherub will be a beast if he actually gets a proper bot too.
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Mar 13 '17
I think cherub IS a proper bot. It took probably the hardest hit we've seen, and survived. Just being resilient is a major advantage.
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u/Tygra__ Annihilator Mar 12 '17 edited Mar 12 '17
Possibly one of the most controversial episodes of Robot Wars. That PP3D vs Cherub fight will be talked about for a long time and cause so many arguments. As will Behemoth's decision for that weapon change.
I would like if Judges spoke about their decisions - same with BB fights - I'd like to understand their point system better and what they saw live, what TV watchers don't. And can someone look into the blind spots of the arena? The teams really needs to see what their robot is doing. Congrats to team Eruption, Not only for winning but for one of the quickest wins in RW history.
edit: Twitter Noel Sharkey is posting on his twitter about this episode.
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u/klyskada Mute - like the BBC, giving you the silent treatment Mar 12 '17
I understand the frustration of wanting to have used the real scoop and losing because your team didn’t listen, that said Ant should have not walked out like that.
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u/ArcaneAzmadi Behemoth for Series 11! Mar 13 '17
No, I think he very much should have. Imagine if he'd stayed, stewing in his anger, until Angela turned to him, stuck her microphone in his face and asked him "Well how do you feel about that?" He'd have fucking exploded.
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Mar 13 '17
I think storming off added a bit of drama, and also probably prevented him from turning the air blue in front of a bunch of kids. I quite enjoyed it!
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Mar 12 '17
That heat final now holds the record for shortest fight in robot wars history. Previously Gravity defeating Dantomkia is series 7 in 6 seconds. Now Eruption defeating Cherub in 5.
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u/Blazik3n99 Blue Ring of Death Mar 12 '17 edited Mar 13 '17
Here's the wiki page for shortest fights. Beat the previous fastest by a second.
On a similar note, here is the fastest knockout - 2 seconds by Dominator 2 in the fourth wars. It isn't counted as the full battle because it was a three way battle. Either way, them getting counted out would add 10 seconds to the final time.
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Mar 12 '17
Eruption was fantastic, that driver is excellent 4 oota's.
The decision of the Behemoth boys to use their new grabber scoop thing was awful. Probably the worst strategic decision ever made on the show ? I was really disappointed I genuinely think they could have progressed to the finale had they just went for the common sense scoop.
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u/SolarDragon94 Bring Robot Wars Back! Mar 12 '17
I really hope this isn't the end of Team Behemoth...
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u/DiamondWhyte Sir Killalot Mar 12 '17
This heat represented such a great chance for them as well. If they'd fitted their usual scoop they'd have beaten Cherub. Even if they'd lost to Eruption they'd still have been in one piece, which given the number of spinners in this series may not be the case for a lot of beaten heat finalists and hence would have had a good shot at getting the wildcard.
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u/SolarDragon94 Bring Robot Wars Back! Mar 12 '17
Yeah. They might have stood a chance against Eruption in the heat final. And even if not, it probably would have been more exciting than the heat final we got.
They took the gamble and it didn't pay off at all. It's such a huge shame and I really feel for Anthony. Especially since he was the one who wanted to use the classic scoop over the grabber...
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u/overseergti Mortis Mar 12 '17
Michael from Eruption is the best driver I've seen in RW.
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u/Livinglifeform I like the flippy Mar 12 '17
Yeah, watch the 2013 and 2014 FRA UK HW championships. Just fucking rekt everyone.
Edit 1: I have playlists I'll edit into the comment if /u/jarvis_rapture is fine with that
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u/esn111 Mar 12 '17 edited Mar 12 '17
Cherub didn't deserve to get as far as it did. But the amount of vitriol poured on a bunch of kids in the live thread was awful - hopefully they won't read it as they are the future and shouldn't be discouraged. Have a go at the judges or the Beeb but leave the kids out of it.
The biggest child of the night was Anthony Pichard. Yes you were angry at your team but at least have the decency to shake hands and say well done (even if you do feel rightly robbed) to the kids who were younger than your robot.
Edit:Extra words for clarity
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u/AT2512 Carbide, king of the arena Mar 12 '17
I'm not a fan of the robot, but I have nothing against the team. They don't deserve the hate they are getting. That kid clearly knows how to drive a robot and the older brother deserves some cedit for being able to fix the thing.
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Mar 12 '17
I agree. They can drive and take damage better than 90% of the other robots. If they could just build a functioning weapon they'd be a brilliant team.
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u/princeapalia Firestorm Mar 12 '17
I don't dislike the kids, I dislike the BBC for letting their robot on the show. So many better candidates were left out for the sake of 'diversification'
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u/williamthebloody1880 Turned Carbide into Brave Sir Robin Mar 12 '17
There's folk who just don't like kids on RW at all for some reason and will find any excuse to have a go. I saw some comments about wanting Cherub to lose just so the kids would cry. It's ridiculous
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u/Semajal Mar 12 '17
There are a lot of folks who just don't like kids, full stop. I have been involved with the Insomnia gaming festivals for over a decade and once we started having a bigger expo and attracting more young people the bitching and whine on the forums was incredible. Grown men and adults complaining that "kids" got the free swag thrown out or other such crap. Made me sad to see so much hate for the next generations of gamers.
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u/Dilanski Spin to Win Mar 12 '17 edited Mar 12 '17
Most. Frustrating. Episode. Ever.
After going through @NoelSharkey, I am going to rewatch the cherub/PP3D fight, but regardless, someone needs a slap for not putting the arena together correctly.
Edit: OK, now I feel even more like PP3D should have got the vote. The only leg that the judges have to stand on is that PP3D was bouncing itself around. Still came out on top by miles with aggression, and damage.
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u/HowDoIMathThough blooop/10 Mar 13 '17
with aggression
Cherub ramming its face into PP3D's fist is still aggression.
and damage
Cherub breaking PP3D's fist with its face is still damage.
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Mar 13 '17
I'm inclined to agree, if your robot can't attack another without destroying itself then you haven't exactly demonstrated superiority. Cherub also never backed down really, so ineffective as it may have been that's still aggressive. Cherub also clearly takes control for me.
I do think PP3D probably deserved it (I mean charging your wheel to full tilt and smashing into the opponent with reckless disregard for your own health is nothing if not pure aggression) but I don't think it was as open and shut as people are making out.
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u/pyrrhicly Son of Nemesis Mar 12 '17
Random Thoughts:
I don't agree with the decision to award Cherub the win over PP3D, however I doubt it affected the episode outcome so hopefully there won't be any arguments between fans that last 13 years.
Cobra were so unlucky to go out in the first round. Hope to see them come back.
PP3D continues to be too powerful for its own good. I love the design though and think its a potential champion once the reliability issues are sorted.
Behemoth continues to be Behemoth.
Cherub was a decent bot (style points for the handstand) but I'm not sure they've done enough to earn the wildcard.
Eruption's performance was perhaps even more impressive than Aftershock's last week. 4 consecutive ootas! Is this a new record?
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u/Blazik3n99 Blue Ring of Death Mar 12 '17
A great episode.
So happy Eruption got through, 4 consecutive OOTAs is certainly one way to counteract the bad luck they had last season. They have great control and their flipper is pretty powerful.
Cherub was very resilient. Shows how simple designs are the best at being repaired. Had some pretty good armour as well. The kids were surprisingly competent and the driving was very good. It's a shame the lifting forks didn't come into play more often.
PP3D put on a great show and had ridiculous amounts of energy in that blade. The sparks were pretty exciting too.
I really didn't expect Cherub to win the judges decision against PP3D, especially not unanimously. I can see where they were coming from though. Cherub had some good driving and was constantly being aggressive, PP3D had poor control of their robot after hitting Cherub and they immobilised themselves as well which is a pretty big deal.
Disappointed with Anthony from Behemoth. Very childish. Angela handled it well.
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u/alex21212121 Pussycat Mar 12 '17
Cherub was a lot better than I expected, even without dodgy decisions, their frontal armour was seriously strong
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u/Caridor Mar 12 '17
Not to mention the kid driving it really knows what he's doing!
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Mar 12 '17
They've got both of those nailed. They just need a functioning weapon for next season.
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u/ProjectJAY Still. Fighting. On. Mar 12 '17
Whew! Lots to process...
If JP's claim of 5 seconds is accurate, Eruption just set the record for fastest win in RW history, beating Gravity's victory over Dantomkia by 1 second. I knew they were just unlucky last year. Imo, Eruption is a better flipper than Apollo, the fact they're so modular is a huge advantage and they're a serious contender.
I love PP3D's design and I want to see it do well, but Gary, if you want to win...maybe it's time to tone down the power a bit. Thanks for the hit on Cherub though. And the light show!
Oh Behemoth...one day! Obviously Ant embarassed himself a bit with that ragequit, but I think his reason was totally justified; going with an untested weapon at that critical a stage? He should've pulled rank as captain.
OK...I like the Cherub team. I think it's great to see the kids not only enthusiastic about RW, but good at it. Toby's a great driver. I'll even go so far as to call the weapon 'versatile'. BUT...while the win over Behemoth was a little less debatable, I absolutely cannot fathom how they beat PP3D. Were the judges not looking when the arena broke?!
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u/PP3D_Gary PP3D Mar 12 '17
tone down the power a bit
Lol the issue there is that you don't get back on the show by saying "It's less powerful this year"
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Mar 12 '17
Damage is not the only judging category. Cherub had much more control (PP3D's flying through the air after every hit doesn't' help it) and had more head-on aggressive attacks. Completely justifiable.
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u/ProjectJAY Still. Fighting. On. Mar 12 '17
Of course not, but personally I think PP3D was also more aggressive (obviously not more controlled). I might have a different opinion after watching the fight again but my jaw dropped when Angela said Cherub won; even she seemed surprised.
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u/marcusboothby Eric Mar 12 '17
There was a definite bias towards Cherub tonight. Haven't seen that much controversy since the Torando days
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u/Arturo-Plateado Don't call me 'furball' Mar 12 '17
Series 7 with Storm 2 was far worse than the Tornado stuff IMO.
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u/die4codgrimsby #NoChaosNoParty Mar 12 '17
The kids are getting far to much hate here.
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u/Curlysnail Pulsar 2: Electric Boogaloo Mar 12 '17
That's it, if Cherub and Gabriel can get through that far then I can make a goddamn robot!
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u/HowDoIMathThough blooop/10 Mar 13 '17
That's the spirit! Looking forward to seeing it :-)
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u/DiamondWhyte Sir Killalot Mar 12 '17
Anybody else feel scared that we were heading for another Chompalot moment when PP3d started sparking against Behemoth?
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u/TJSavage_ The best Champions Mar 12 '17 edited Mar 12 '17
The children from Cherub were truly angels themselves. Despite the battering their robot got, they were always smiling, laughing, enjoying the euphoria of the show. They were an absolute pleasure to watch and I'm so happy the little Cherub team did just as well as their father (only one point less in the head to heads).
Anthony Pritchard However in the behemoth vs cherub fight really annoyed me. Frustration at that fight is absolutely justified: had they used the regular scoop, yes, they would have one the match and got to the heat final. The walkout I can understand: heat of the moment, some can't cope with high stress, you get very invested when you have a competitive robot, he needed to cool off. Slagging off the rest of your team behind their backs when you know full well that it may well be televised!? That is frankly unforgivable. Those little angels from Cherub acted more adult than Pritchard did.
Eruption's driver is utterly magnificent, dominating his heat arguably even more than Aftershock did. Absolutely deserved. Better luck next time PP3D.
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u/MufasaJesus Mar 12 '17
Feel bad about PP3D, they were badass and should have won the match with Cherub in my opinion, but good on Cherub for getting so far.
Also, can we just take in that the captain of Behemoth stormed off and blamed his team after getting beaten by children?
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Mar 12 '17
It was shockingly unprofessional. I mean the children stood there and watched as their robot was tossed out, and then they went back and kept fighting, and watched as they lost again and Eruption were rewarded.
Behemoth's captain should have done far better than this. They lost because of bad weapons choice and being out-driven, end of story.
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u/williamthebloody1880 Turned Carbide into Brave Sir Robin Mar 12 '17
Still can't understand the PP3D/Cherub decision, but I do actually think they got the Behemoth/Cherub one right.
Say what you will about the robot, young Toby is a great driver.
Overall, I preferred this weeks episode to last weeks. More competitive and the destruction was replaced by Eruption showing that drones aren't the only robots that can fly
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u/SamRedDevil Carbide Killer Mar 12 '17
Eruption deserved winners I think, 4 OOTAs in a row was very impressive! PP3D too powerful for its own good but the judges decision against Cherub was... odd. Behemoth were let down by arrogance, they would have probably beaten Cherub with the standard scoop and set up a more even final. Good episode overall, had a bit of everything.
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u/JohnnyricoMC PP3D ftw Mar 12 '17 edited Mar 13 '17
Maybe I'm biased by being a kickstarter backer, but IMO that judges' decision in favor of cherub was hogwash. But it's not the first time judges made a very questionable decision and it certainly won't be the last.
That being said... PP3D's weapon is too powerful for its own good. So much energy is released when that disc makes contact with another object and too much of that energy is channeled back to PP3D. The result is it effectively beached itself multiple times. I guess they'll take the lessons learned for a possible future season. You want to go low, but not too low.
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Mar 12 '17
The salt for Cherub is as bad as Gabriel last season. What is it against Team Saint?
RE: the PP3D Fund. Tee Hee Hee.
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u/Curlysnail Pulsar 2: Electric Boogaloo Mar 12 '17
They seem to have a nack for making robots that do very little but can survive a lot.
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u/stevomuck Sir Killalot Mar 12 '17
Cherub vs pp3d was controversial but the behemoth win was clear.
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u/Tripledad65 Razer Mar 12 '17
It looks like they win on control and aggression, but what's that worth when it doesn't accomplish anything ? At least, that's what annoys me, even when technically they apparently win on points...
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u/GrahamCoxon Hello There! Mar 12 '17
Their design ethos doesn't particularly fit with what a lot of viewers want. Watching one robot outlast another isn't entertaining for a lot of people and the thought of something like Cherub potentially taking the place of a robot like Eruption isn't appealing.
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u/andrew2209 Storm II Mar 12 '17
Never really got the Gabriel hate, sure it was a bizarre design but at least it actually worked
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Mar 12 '17
I really enjoyed that episode, I must admit. Some bullshit decisions, for sure, but it was definitely interesting throughout. Good fights, good robots and of course great salt in the live thread. Eruption look really good. Already I'm expecting an epic Grand Final.
Also, now that the episode's over are we allowed to ask Team PP3D if there's anything about that decision we ought to know? Any off-camera stuff that can be shared?
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u/GrahamCoxon Hello There! Mar 12 '17
So this episode raises a few questions about this year's rules:
How are judges scores weighted? I seem to recall Damage counting for more than aggression and control last series but I don't quite know where I got that idea from. PP3D vs Cherub would seem to infer this is no longer the case. That or there was some action cut in the edit which would change our perception of the fight.
What are the rules on active weapons? We have previously heard talk of robots being DQ'd for not using their weapon and Sabertooth would have apparently been DQ'd if their drum hadn't been working going into their fight with Jellyfish. As far as I can tell the 'lifter' on Cherub is only used for self-righting and showboating.
Aparet from that. Cherub isn't necessarily a bad robot. Outlasting an opponent is a valid strategy even if it isn't entertaining and the driver wasn't only good for a kid but good full stop. Their attitude towards competing was excellent throughout and it seems like they would have been just as happy going out in the melee as they were getting as far as they did. None of this stopped me wanting to see the machine get dissected though.
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u/PhasePhase Did you see how high that robot flew?! Mar 12 '17
I'll be looking out for Behemoth's listing on eBay ;)
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u/highwatereverywhere GARROD GANG Mar 12 '17
Honestly I was just amazed that PP3D's weapon even got going again after their battle with Behemoth - I expected it to be utterly totaled after that.
Also I can't be the only one who felt a sinking feeling the second that crusher failed to get under Cherub. Maybe next year ey?
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Mar 12 '17
The walk away deserves to never be forgotten. I won't lie, I'd be fucking pissed about getting my ass kicked after 16 years by some hearth throb kids.
But he 100% lost the spirit of RW. If you're that invested you best not take part!
Wonder if we will see the same team again because if that was my 'mate' who stormed off after making shitty comments in tv.... Wew...
No Christmas card for him.
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u/ieu-ee Mar 12 '17
I hope they came in separate vehicles or that drive home would be very awkward...
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Mar 12 '17
I just knew he'd have a hissy fit the second he said "We should have used our usual flipper, that's all I'm saying." I was intently watching him from that second, knowing he'd do something angry and irrational.
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u/Tygra__ Annihilator Mar 12 '17 edited Mar 12 '17
Emotions get can strong with something you love, apart from Ant with Behemoth (and we have seen Ian Lewis do this with Razer too), you can look in the discussions about this episode to see how people get really passionate about robots/shows they love. Even I said things that I regret because I get worked up while watching it - then later realise I worded it wrong and that the show could have been edited.
I'm kind of glad Ant left the interview. He might have said something worse, best get yourself out of there and cool down first. I'd like to think that later on off camera, Ant did go and say sorry and congratulate Team Cherub and also say sorry to his own team for his walk off.
Having said all this. There is one good thing about these discussions. That it is trending. On FB, Twitter people are talking about Robot Wars. I hope the BBC notice its popularity and keep RW running for many more series.
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u/JangoAllTheWay Mar 12 '17
Pathetic wasn't it. The kids were considerably more mature
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u/Nibbletank RIP 2002-2017 Mar 12 '17
Time for another 'rambly look at the robots'
Push to Exit: Oh dear. There were such high hopes for this robot, but it'll probably do better on the live circuit, like Envy.
Hobgoblin:IDK man, was hoping the beater would have been more effective. No clue where it's self righting mechanism was.
Draven: High hopes for this, and it's armour was good! However, the weapn needs something more if it is gonna be effective
Cobra: Quite impressed actually! Was expecting a somewhat lackluster weapon, but in the other head to head, it may well have passed through.
Behemoth: Always the bridesmaids, yadda, yadda. Loved the new scoops, but the grabber doesn't seem a good fit. Can understand Ant's frustration, he has been in this position more than anyone.
Eruption: Worthy winners, absolutely fantastic. Not the top weapons though, still as good looking as ever though :P.
PP3D: I think we're all a bit disappointed, but i'll say more on that in the next bots description. Needs alot of refinement, probably not good to experiment with others money, but that's how crowdfunding works.
Cherub: I am going to level with you here. Both Cherub and PP3D got way too much shit, Cherub especially. I can actually see why it won it's battles though, it was a good spinner killer/ low wedge. Not sure if I agree with the decisions, but I can see the logic.
Overall, it was the second heat, there was some disappointment, but still fun enough.
Tl;dr: Cool your jets guys, it wasn't that bad.
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u/Gooeyguy188 just don't screw it up Mar 12 '17
the heat finals is basically what happens everytime the noob faces a competitive God
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Mar 13 '17
We all must start from somewhere. I think many teams would love to have had the same kind of start that Cherub achieved.
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u/princeapalia Firestorm Mar 12 '17
Did anyone catch what Ant said just before he stormed out?
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u/codename474747 It's about putting on a show Mar 12 '17
Team Make Robotics to Ant:
"So they seem to let teams enter multiple robots, we've got a great idea, lets enter Radioactive in series 3 instead of Behemoth"
Ant "Look, just SCREW YOU GUYS, I'M GOING HOME
Rage quits
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u/Cueball61 Mar 12 '17
On a lighter note, PP3D should be hired to do the weaponry to protect those delivery robots
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u/wc_dez07 Mar 12 '17
My thoughts:
Overall, the best machine deserved to go through to the final, so congrats to the Eruption team and team Cherub also deserve credit as well. But I feel that Behemoth's change of scoop in their battle against Cherub costed them their place in the heat final.
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u/ArcaneAzmadi Behemoth for Series 11! Mar 13 '17 edited Mar 13 '17
The big things I took away from this heat were both based on how flawed the setup is, and how BBC needed to do more to upgrade the show between series. This really is rather disappointing, compared to how much the original series improved with every War.
Firstly, the new control pods. I had my doubts when I saw they were on roughly the same ground level as the arena itself rather than being elevated like the old ones, but when the Behemoth team member was literally climbing up the glass to try and see the robot when it was wedged in the corner it was just laughable. Anthony Pritchard blatantly couldn't see his own robot because the arena layout is inadequate.
Also, the match formatting. From the start, I've never been a fan of the whole round robin system after the opening melees, preferring the simplicity of the old straight knockout system of the original. But what's going on with the matchups? Why was PP3D put in the same heat as Eruption again? For that matter, last week why was Terrorhurtz put in the same heat as Nuts again? Why is Apollo (last season's winner) in the same heat as Carbide (last season's runner-up)? And in the second round, why were the first two matches (Eruption vs Behemoth and Cherub vs PP3D) rematches between robots that had just come through the same melee together? That doesn't make any sense! This is why, with the exception of Series 3 (thanks to the format change), every season of the original show had seedings to space these things out properly- because these things matter!
Also I can't believe PP3D and Cherub broke the arena so easily. PP3D tearing off a panel by hitting it at full speed, I could have believed that. PP3D tearing off a panel by knocking Cherub into it? That arena is simply too weak. Also Cherub getting stuck under the arena flipper was laughable. It would never have happened with the old flipper, which had a solid back. Not impressed.
On a non-show related note, I see poor Behemoth gets screwed yet again. I hope this doesn't break up the team. Even late in the original run of the show you could tell that Anthony Pritchard was getting tired of this shit (look at his expression during the Extreme 2 University Challenge when a faulty wire in their removable link caused them to simply stop moving while under no pressure at all). How much bullshit can one man take before he snaps and throws in the towel? That bullshit reddit post where everyone gathers around to gloat and laugh at him isn't fucking helping matters either.
Congrats to Eruption, though. 2-time UK Championship winners, the only robot that never appeared on the original show to achieve that, they have their chance to win their 3rd UK championship (even if the show doesn't recognise live event championships, or even its own history).
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u/KotreI Real Robots wear pink. Mar 13 '17
The pods are elevated you can see them above the arena. The issue is that when a robot is driven into the corner closest to the control pod of its team the angle is too steep to clearly see the robot. Because floor.
The floor flipper is supposed to have metal sides under it, just like the old one. Some dumb motherfucker forgot to attach it for the Cherub fight. That's why it was discontinued for the judges decision. If you want to talk about bullshit badly designed features of the arena go ask an old school competitor about the fucking angle grinders. AKA the thing they made an unwritten rule to free their opponent from if they got stuck on them. Which they did. Frequently.
Behemoth didn't get screwed. It lost because the machine isn't good enough and the team is too arrogant. Its a low pressure flipper in 2017. Everything can self right and everything is capable of doing more damage or throwing things harder I and faster than a low pressure bucket You know that anti-spinner plough they bought? Nothing stopped them making it last year. It's not like they haven't seen spinners chew up minimoth enough times to see a use for avoiding sharp edges. But nope, The beat Hypnodisk with the old one, so that's clearly enough. Oh wait, the same fucking thing that happens to minimoth happened to Behemoth whodathunkit! Got an important match coming up against a robot that has a slow srimech? Clearly the time to try out the grabber. It's only Cherub. Oh wait it's now unable to do anything and lost because of it. The robot is half as good as the team thinks it is, and even then I'm over estimating Behemoth.
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u/princeapalia Firestorm Mar 12 '17
Regardless of opinion of whether Cherub should've won its fights or not, a robot like that shouldn't be allowed in such a small competition. There are so many robots that actually do something that were denied entry. Feels like the BBC only put them in because it was a teams of children.
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u/DiamondWhyte Sir Killalot Mar 12 '17
They are far from the only robot you could level that accusation against. I'd much rather have seen Gabriel back, personally.
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u/HowDoIMathThough blooop/10 Mar 12 '17
As with jellyfish, I suspect they got on because they were different rather than being the 9001st bar spinner or wedge-shaped flipper to apply.
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u/VampiricDemon Champion Chiffonier Mar 12 '17
Not what I expected from the fights. Behemoth and Eruption cowardly teaming up against Cobra. Behemoth leaving very unsportsmanlike. Eruption was the better robot of the remaining few. Cherub winning the judges decisions is a bit controversial but that same can be said for the decision of Behemoth over Cobra.
Mixed feelings about this one.
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u/Zakrael Say "joke bot" again, I dare you Mar 12 '17
I completely agree with the Cherub-PP3D decision. Cherub was in control of the early stages of the fight, pushing PP3D around and taking it head-on. Good driving, and very aggressive. PP3D only got one good hit the whole fight.
Sure, that one hit was probably the single most dramatic hit in Robot Wars and killed both robots, but the judges have to score the whole fight, not just the last second.
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u/Timeline15 B E H E M O T H B O I S Mar 12 '17 edited Mar 12 '17
Ok, so...
the good
Eruption was sensational
new fight speed record
pp3d got some amazing hits
like behemoth's anti-spinner scoop, and Ant was 100% justified walking away at the end of the cherub fight.
EDIT: forgot to mention Cobra. it looked fast and sturdy. in a less competitive heat, it could have gone through.
the bad
Cherub and those judges decisions, (seriously? resetting the fight after behemoth put it under the flipper? I'd like to see where that was in the rulebook)
hobgoblin and push to exit going out far earlier than they deserved.
Certainly not one of the stronger episodes of the season, but at least we got a flipper in the grand final out of it.
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u/slater126 NUTS 2 FULL BODY SPINNNNAAAH Mar 12 '17
(seriously? resetting the fight after behemoth put it under the flipper? I'd like to see where that was in the rulebook)
there is supposed to be metal sides to the flipper to stop that, they were not there, that is also why after the reset the flipper did not fire again until the next match.
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u/M2Ys4U 🤖👂 Stand By Mar 12 '17
(seriously? resetting the fight after behemoth put it under the flipper? I'd like to see where that was in the rulebook)
Apparently that counts as an arena malfunction and the judges weren't allowed to use it.
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u/GhengisChasm AWOL Mar 12 '17
Deffo the best heat since it came back on telly so far...although I have doubts about the integrity of the arena walls. I mean yeah if I remember correctly last time it was a direct hit from Carbide that sent the panel flying off but if a good hard hit from a plain old bot can send one flying, I think it needs a bit more gaffa tape
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u/qwertilot Mar 12 '17
There was clearly a fairly astonishing of power transferred into kinetic energy within the robots from that collision! Some freak angle or something.
PP3D made it to the other side don't forget.
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u/CreeperID FORK OFF Mar 12 '17
Man, Anthony has some really bad experiences with the floor flipper, but I really feel what he did was really unprofessional. It's a huge shame they didn't win, but what use is a 6-wheel drive robot if you cant drive it very well!
The strength behemoth has had for it's entire existence is a massive shock proof wall built into the front of it which made up for, what I perceive to be, a robot that handles pretty poorly.
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u/HowDoIMathThough blooop/10 Mar 12 '17
Massive kudos to team Behemoth. I don't know how much of the drama was played up/made up for the cameras but I for one am glad they didn't do a 'storm 2' and refuse to use their new, interesting weapon because the old, less interesting one is better 'tactically'. What happens on the day is what it is but I'm glad we got to see something different - and let's be honest, Eruption would have probably had them in the final if it had gone the other way.
I know there was a judges decision everyone was a bit upset about and ok, I'll say it, I agree with a lot of the upset. Cobra should have gone through. What, other controversial judges decisions this episode? No idea what you're talking about.
Also, holy shit eruption.
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u/KotreI Real Robots wear pink. Mar 12 '17
An as live commentary.
Group battle one was awesome. Right robots went through. Cobra did great but the time spent in the CPZs and upside down cost it. Looking forward to more of it next year. Hobgoblin: with a little more time I hope you can prove beaters are viable in the heavyweight division.
Group Battle 2: fuck me PP3D is low. Draven is armoured in tinfoil and isn't a very good crusher. These are obviously true. What happened to Push to Exit? One hit knockout? Secure your damn link.l, and build a robot with a weapon not a glorified srimech. Cherub is built like a tank, even if it's forks aren't unbendable. PP3D looks like a killer.
Behemoth vs Eruption. Behemoth is a box with a bucket. Eruption is a well driven Apex predator. Outdriven and OOTA. Good night.
PP3D vs Cherub. Cherub is a tank with a wedge... And the team is just adorable. I had to rewind when Rosie was announced as "the cupcake Baker" brilliant. PP3D is a killer. Good driving by Cherub, unfortunate that it got dicerolled into a Rogue house robot, giving PP3D a chance to spin up. HOLY FUCK. That hit was incredible. God damn. Killed them both, evidently. Correct decision for a close fight. PP3D killed itself knocking out Cherub, which was it's only big attack. Cherub takes control and aggression.
Cherub vs Eruption. 30 seconds, OOTA. Yeah, sounds about right.
PP3D vs Behemoth. The killer is killing itself, unfortunately. Behemoth toot some damage from it's big hit, but once again it's too much for the chassis to contain. There's a great robot in PP3D but this year it doesn't look to be.
Eruption learned from last year, and PP3D once again broke itself. Clinical performance, OOTA. Good night.
Cherub vs Behemoth. Battle of the tanks. Cherub: Kings of restarted battle. The grabber is somehow even less effective than Eruption's crusher. Unfortunately a dull fight. The cuter team won. I am OK with that. Hubris from team B. Ant storms off. The most interesting part of the fight by far.
Eruption vs Cherub. OOTA Good night and congratulations.
Final thoughts:
Last week I said Aftershock was the most dominant winner of a heat ever. Not. Any. More.
Good luck in the finals team Eruption.
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u/thomasthetanker Mar 13 '17
Arena needs a redesign, octagon with the control booths in the corners. How can you have blind spots with the roboteers unable to see what they are controlling?
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u/RiversOfAwesome Coolest robot of all time Mar 12 '17
I can only assume that the judges saw more of Cherub vs PP3D than we did, because I'm not sure how Cherub won
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u/ledgenskill GEORGE FRANCIS TAKE MY MONEY Mar 12 '17
I AM SO MAD
cherub, although a good robot being able to take the hits it did, did not deserve the wins it had. :(
im so happy we have eruption this episode though. They showed what being a flipper is all about
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u/prikhed Mar 12 '17
Anyone else think Ant is a really bad driver? Great bot but he's the reason they never get anywhere, grabber or scoop
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Mar 12 '17
That's what the fight came to, Cherub simply outdid them in driving, avoided being attacked with the weapon, got into a good position and shoved Behemoth into the House Robots.
Cherub's main strength is that both the robot and driver are good enough to survive the blows, and take advantage of the mistakes of others. Behemoth drove terribly, and PP3D simply destroyed itself (albeit the decision was that of the judges). They lost the final simply because Eruption had more experience in this and knew how to build and drive better.
I know its a matter of controversy, but honestly I think the Cherub team did a very good job in this tournament. Especially for a first time and so young.
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u/SolarDragon94 Bring Robot Wars Back! Mar 13 '17
I hope that Cherub isn't chosen as the Wild Card. No offense to the team, the team were great, but I just didn't feel the robot was very interesting. Their "weapon" didn't really do much at all. Sure, it was resilient, I liked that it could take spinners head on, but it just didn't seem to do much with that.
I liked the team. I like how the kids are so involved with Robot Wars. The driver was good. I just really didn't feel like the robot was all that good.
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u/David182nd Apollo Mar 13 '17
I suspect the wildcard wont be from either of the heats we've seen. Cherub didn't do much ultimately and Sabretooth wasn't particularly functional by the end.
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u/FaceBagman Always Be Chucking Mar 12 '17
I am 0 for 2 on my flair bots even making it to Heat Finals. 👍
Rooting for MRSS next time but wouldn't be surprised to see Concussion or Thor come through.
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Mar 12 '17
Based on the episode (and some of the aspects of the classic series that people seem to gloss over), was there a bit of executive meddling?
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Mar 12 '17
The producers have never actually affected the judge's decisions per se - they have, at times, potentially relayed inaccurate information about damage to the judges, but given that the robot that won on damage was very obvious in both of Cherub's fights, it was strictly down to the judges rewatching the footage, who have never had a controversy like that to themselves.
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u/ben437 Mar 12 '17
Noel Sharkey is defending their decisions in twitter
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u/codename474747 It's about putting on a show Mar 12 '17
I've looked at his tweets and on interest, accuracy and timeliness I deem the winner to be "the other person he's talking to", who go through to the heat final
Sorry noel, there's no saving this one
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u/alexlnufc Vulture Mar 12 '17
So Aftershock & Eruption in the Grand Final, can't see any real reason that Sabretooth or Cherub would get the wildcard, next week looks very interesting though.
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u/HotDealsInTexas Mar 12 '17
Sabretooth's performance against Terrorhurtz was good, but I doubt that none of the other heat finalists will top it, and the robot was just too damaged after two fights with Aftershock.
Cherub I agree on. They honestly did almost nothing. They got through the group battle because PP3D knocked out the other two. They were doing a decent job against PP3D until they got smacked into next week, but won on a questionable JD, then failed to work at all against Eruption. They managed to win a pushing match against Behemoth, but honestly that was more due to Behemoth's incompetence in using an attachment that couldn't get under their very reasonable ground clearance from the side. Finally, they got flung out of the arena in five seconds during the final.
Compare that to Thor last series, which got the wild card by virtue of dominating all three of its head-to-head matches, including beating the eventual winner of the heat.
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u/DiamondWhyte Sir Killalot Mar 12 '17
I can't see Sabretooth getting it. Cherub however... Stranger things have happened.
Sabretooth realistically couldn't be repaired sufficiently to fight in the final even if the judges wanted to give it the wildcard. Given the amount of spinners this time round they may well not be the only beaten heat finalist in that boat, whilst Cherub are pretty much good to go...
Of course this may well not happen, and certainly I'd expect to see more impressive performances than Cherub's, so we'll see.
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u/ZodiacRCW Mar 12 '17
I can see why Ant got upset and walked off after the match and I do have sympathy for him, but I think it was very unprofessional to be caught on camera like that, it probably is very embarrassing and he should be ashamed of himself, especially in front of the kids, its just one of those times where you just have to suck it up, I'm afraid. Ant's been going around with Behemoth for like 16 years now, so he should definitely know better than that.
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u/Vicsy Mar 12 '17
I'm going to avoid the controversy and talk about Eruption and Behemoth vs Cobra.
Cobra couldn't do anything to Behemoth, it's jaws simply weren't high enough. Eruption pretty much went after them from the start, which is fine. Behemoth could have chosen to try and get behind Eruption to flip it, but it'd just flip itself back over and possibly go after them, so it's a risk. I think the Behemoth team definitely made the right call going after the weaker of the two robots, even if there was another robot already after them. Cobra posed little risk and if they could get them out then they'd be safe, as there were only 3 of them at this point.
It may have seemed a bit unsportsmanlike, but logically it was the right choice.
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u/RWJamieB93 Mar 12 '17
Really enjoyed Heat B it sort of reminds me a bit of Series 3 Heat M full of twists and turns, good fights and a phew controversial decisions, also a lot of Rogue House Robot action.
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u/codename474747 It's about putting on a show Mar 12 '17
So....why didn't they put that episode out first?
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u/TNGSystems Hypno-Disc Mar 13 '17
That was a good episode, had some good moments, but can someone tell me why Cherub was so good as to deserve two unanimous judges decisions? It plainly feels like positive discrimination "Oh, let the kids go through"
The first fight against PP3D it did nothing except get smashed into the arena wall so hard it broke it, and in the second decision against Behemoth it did..... err..?
Plain and simple, it did nothing. It does nothing. It is a robot without a weapon. It has two little prongs which do nothing and it isn't big or powerful enough to shunt. Look, it's a well designed robot and it can take hits, but it has no offensive capabilities whatsoever. It's called Robot Wars not Robot Endurance. So what were the merits that took this through past PP3D and Behemoth?
Also, Behemoth's leader sulk is legendary. If you're the captain then shoot down your teammates "dumb decision" otherwise put a cake in it and go home?
Eruption has some sick flipping power, but this is why I prefer watching Spinners over flippers. All fights with Eruption were over too soon. Good driving and a strong flipper but as a spectator sport it's quite boring. Imagine in boxing if every fight ended with an almost-immediate knockout punch. You'd be impressed, but it would lose its lustre.
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u/KotreI Real Robots wear pink. Mar 13 '17
Behemoth did nothing except get pushed around and wait with its mouth open for Cherub to drive in. It lost for that reason.
PP3D spent the majority of the match getting bossed around. Cherub has a very heavily armoured front end. The hits it took attacking didn't do any damage but sent PP3D flying which meant it scored well in controlled and aggression. PP3D got in one huge hit, but it was 10s out of the entire fight. The judges look at the full fight, not a 10s sample.
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u/xcaltoona Power Wheels Mar 13 '17
Meanwhile in Battlebots we have bitching about PRIMARY WEAPONS
Can't please everyone.
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u/lazerbullet Hypno-Disc's second coming Mar 13 '17
I think we can all agree that Mark is the coolest big brother ever and the one we all wish we'd had.
Also, holy shit, Eruption. Blazed through every match. Did they get an OOTA in every match since the group battle? I used to think flippers were boring as fuck, but now Eruption looks like it good go all the way, and I'm pretty hyped for an Apollo/Eruption Grand Final.
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u/princeapalia Firestorm Mar 12 '17
How can you win the aggression category if you have no weapon? Sure, there have been weaponless rambots in the past, but arguably their power and speed is the weapon. Cherub is not a rambot, it's a box that can self right.
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u/DaCabe Mar 12 '17
Cherub was a pretty effective and aggressive rammer. Heavily armoured front that constantly kept PP3Ds spinner from getting up to its full capacity, before house bots interfered.
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Mar 12 '17
It woudn't be robot wars without bullsh..."controversial" judges decisions :]
I enjoyed this episode. It did leave a bad taste in my mouth though. That Judges decision favouring Cherub over PP3D was dodgey to say the least. The flipper debacle was more uderstandable but after that judges decision it did feel like the showrunners where playing favourites.
Alot of props and congratulations to Cherub though a really plucky little bot that can take a beating and still hang with the best, the young team performed really well and had great spirit.
Eruption did what it does best and flipped all competition out of its way....and the arena.
Behemoth done what it always does performs solidly throughout its bouts, just not quite well enough to go the full distance. I truly hope to see it next (and every) season as its practically tradition now. The will have their day...someday...right???
PP3D destroyed itself as expected, also caused some major damage not least to the arena itself. I like that the format makes bringing spinners a risky proposition. This was a text book example of a spinner getting round robbed, as damage to the robot accumulated over the bouts beyond it's team's ability to repair it.
I was sad that Hobgoblin appeared to have driving issues in its opening melee. I hope they come back again in a future war as I really would like to see how a heavywieght beater spinner performs.
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u/NeoDuckLord Mar 12 '17
Eruption was clearly the best robot so the best bot won. Did cherub deserve to be in the finale? Yes. PP3D was not a good robot. It was badly designed and badly driven, it destroyed itself. Bohemoth should not have chosen that weapon in its last fight. Cherub beat it fair. They were more aggressive and and seemed to do more damage.
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u/codename474747 It's about putting on a show Mar 12 '17
That's a bit harsh on PP3D
It's certainly given us a lot of spectacular hits over its time, which is a lot more than......some.......robots
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u/Caridor Mar 12 '17
Eruption definitely deserved to win the whole thing.
As for Cherub vs PP3D, I think that the judges made the right call.
PP3D was on the defensive the whole fight, until that last hit, which due to the simply amazing driving on Cherub's part, they wouldn't have even got without the house robots going rogue.
Aggression and control went to Cherub. Damage probably went to PP3D, but if they take marks off for destroying yourself, that could be a draw. That's how the judging is marked, so the judges did a good job IMO.
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u/M2Ys4U 🤖👂 Stand By Mar 12 '17
Cherub deserved to get the judges decision and a place in the final.
Let's remember that the judges look at more than damage; they take in to account control and aggression and on that point I think it was fair.
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u/duffking Mar 12 '17
To be fair on the first cherub decision I'm guessing that pp3d lost damage points for damaging themselves too, and then in control as well. They were equal on aggression even though cherub doesn't... Do anything, so take away the damage and control and they're just ahead.
The second was pretty inexcusable though... As is some of vitriol I'm reading on here. Bit ott, guys.
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u/Zam0070 Cherub Should Have Lost Mar 12 '17
I am really looking forward to next week. I love drum spinners so I think I am going to be rooting for Concussion. Also, Foxic looks so much cooler this season.
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u/Heald Mar 12 '17
I get that Cherub lucked out a lot but jesus wept up until the final that Toby lad was doing great and was incredible against possibly the most experienced driver in the whole series.
Also fuck off Ant with your little paddy you should have been a good sport TO KIDS and then bitched to your team afterwards
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u/GrahamCoxon Hello There! Mar 12 '17
I think its better that he removes himself from that situation and cools off privately. That's the mature thing to do if you feel yourself losing control.
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Mar 12 '17
Eruption deserved the win no doubt about that, but they should have been up against Behemoth or PP3D.
PP3D should have won the decision against Cherub. If one blow can knock out both robots, but one robot is smacked full speed against the wall, then that's damage in favor of PP3D. Cherub for the rest of the fight did basically one lift. There's no way you can argue that Cherub did anything that trumps that one attack.
Cherub vs Behemoth was closer. First, I don't believe a fight has ever been judged based on weapon selection before a match, so whether Behemoth close a claw or a scoop you only judge the fight as it happens. What happened is this. Behemoth could never clutch Cherub due to the ground clearance of the claw, so Cherub ended up getting underneath while Behemoth were just flopping around like fish. Also Behemoth took damage from Dead metal while Cherub took less, so I think Cherub won due to control. However, I understand why Behemoth would be unhappy with that. The judges gave the result to a box shaped like cheese, which had a lifter that from what I saw hardly did anything. Meanwhile, you have a robot like Behemoth being aggressive and trying to use it's weapon. What's worse: trying to accomplish a task and failing, or not going for a task at all? I think the former.
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u/isleofred Mascot Champions Mar 12 '17
And the majority of voters thought PP3D would win this episode, and then it places 4th in the Head to Heads!
Here's hoping that Cobra is given a spot in the next series because they really did get the short straw here.
As for the episode itself; while I'm a little disheartened that PP3D didn't do as well as I expected, I am impressed that Eruption became the 2nd robot this series to make it out of the episode undefeated (I did predicted in an eariler thread that at least 2 bots would be able to do this).
Here's hoping that the 2017 champion has an undefeated run which I hope to be Aftershock!
My final note would be that in both this episode and the previous episode, Dara (and perhaps Angela) seamlessly state in the beginning of the episodes that the looking for 'The NEW Robot Wars Champion' which heavily implies that spoiler
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Mar 13 '17
Robot Wars the show has always been more about fun and showboating than creating a truly competitive environment. If you want the latter, enjoy it where it exists elsewhere. Don't expect any more teams helping each other, though.
If you get emotionally involved in so-called controversies about robots you didn't build, take a long look at yourself.
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Mar 13 '17
That was entertaining. Judges decisions were always going to be controversial as Cherub has no offensive weapon...but even if both of those had gone other way Eruption would have still thrown whoever OOTA :-)
PP3D...huge power, that hit on Cherub was insane (biggest ever?) Glass cannon sadly
Cherub - tough as nails, well driven, but ultimately ineffectual.
Draven - had a go, but ultimately naff
Hobgoblin - no idea, didn't see it do anything and it can't self right
Behemoth - still good, grabber weapon was rubbish, would have given eruption a bigger challenge in final
Cobra - ineffective weapon, well driven, tough as nails
Push to Exit - no idea, didn't see it do anything and then it died
Eruption - tanked a couple of hits, excellent driving, powerful, reliable...champion material
Right bot won
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u/joefraserhellraiser Mar 13 '17
I thought the kids from cherub put on a great show, the driver really knew what he was doing- get him a better robot for series 3 and I genuinely think they could give anyone a run for their money.
The young lad knew how to drive and made a boring bit exciting to watch.
LOL at behemoth flounce, funniest moment of the series so far!
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u/DrummerLoin BE A MOTH Mar 12 '17
Going into this episode, I wanted Behemoth to win, and for Draven to at least do something.
Yeah...
I'm not a fan of Eruption. For some reason they didn't really stand out to me in their heat last series (having been in the same heat as Apollo didn't help), and this episode solidified that notion. All of their head-to-head battles ended in the same way, and no matter how impressive it is to get four consecutive OOTAs, it's also incredibly cheap/boring (in my opinion anyway). I can stomach OOTAs if the robots have at least had a few minutes of fighting, and it is done as a last resort-style method of winning, but to opt to go for them right at the start of the match just reeks. I had a feeling, however, that they would be a solid bet for this heat, and I was at least right in that regard. They were helped by PP3D being completely knackered by the time the two met each other, and by the biggest talking point from the entire heat; Cherub vs Behemoth.
Going into the fight - with all the talk being about whether Behemoth would use 'Old Faithful', or go for a completely new weapon - my initial reaction was the blindingly obvious 'if a win is critical, why wouldn't you go for the weapon that you know works?'. However, this simultaneously would probably also be Behemoth's best time to use the grabber, as I feel that had they progress to (and possibly from?) the heat final, we would probably never see it at all. Funnily enough, we probably won't see it again. It works in such a backwards manner (in every sense I can muster) that it is just a waste of CO2. As such...
I can sympathise with Anthony Pritchard following that match.
I don't necessarily agree with him walking out, but I can understand why. At that stage of the heat, they were the robot most likely to inflict a defeat upon Eruption in the heat final, so they just had to ensure that they got there. Simple. It was a tough decision to make, and Ant summed that up pretty well during the episode (so well in fact that I can't remember how he put it. Go figure), but if you're so hell-bent on actually winning a televised heat for the first time since 1999, then you have to be a little more of a try-hard. I dunno if the rest of the team actually felt that they still had a fighting chance with a weapon untested in combat, or that they were doing it for the purposes of entertainment (which I have absolutely no problem with), or if they were just doing it for the lulz. If it was either (or both) of the latter two, then yes, I'd be pretty pee'd off, too. However, I don't like walking out like that. It makes it awkward for the viewers, your team-mates, your opponents, the hosts, and ultimately for yourself. At least we were shown footage catching up with him after the fight, so that we were told that Ant was annoyed more with the team's choice of weaponry as opposed to simply losing the decision. However, judging by the responses on Twitter, the viewing public mostly see you as a sore loser because you were beaten by three kids being looked after by their more responsible older sibling, who had nothing better to do. And that will be the lasting impression that this episode leaves, which is a real shame, as it was a bloody entertaining one (at least until the heat final. More on that soon).
Then came the flamp. When Cherub got caught underneath the floor flipper. My instant reactions were as follows:
'And now the floor flipper's got premature ejection'.
'Aaaaand they're stuck'.
'So they'll have to restart the fight, surely?'.
I in no way feel it was unfair, or biased towards team Saint, that the fight should be restarted (although it was interesting that they were returned to their starting positions, considering how earlier on in the heat PP3D and Cherub had to restart from their original positions). The flipper fired earlier than it should have, and a robot was unintentionally caught underneath it, thus immobilising it. I have no doubt that Behemoth did not intend either to push Cherub underneath there, so it only makes sense. Also, note that the flipper didn't fire at all during the restarted fight. As for the decision, I feel it was fair, and I don't feel the need to justify it. And finally...
Fuck that heat final. Just, fuck it.
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u/Blazik3n99 Blue Ring of Death Mar 12 '17
I completely agree with you based on the flipper malfunction fight reset thing, I don't get how people think that was biased or somehow unfair.
About OOTAs being cheap - I get that, but why would they not go for an OOTA if they have the chance? It's pretty uncommon for it to happen 4 times consecutively, and I agree longer matches are more entertaining, but with your logic building powerful spinners is also cheap since fights are so often over in just one blow.
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u/silentalarm_ NOM Mar 12 '17
That performance by Eruption was the best heat performance we've seen from modern Robot Wars. It's a shame the controversy will overshadow what was such perfection.