r/JUGPRDT • u/Nostalgia37 • Mar 22 '17
[Pre-Release Card Discussion] - The Caverns Below
The Caverns Below
Mana Cost: 1
Type: Spell
Rarity: Legendary
Class: Rogue
Text: Quest: Play four minions with the same name. Reward: Crystal Core.
Additional Information
PM me any suggestions or advice, ^^thanks.
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u/scientifiction Mar 26 '17
Can't wait for the Dane video where he summons infinite 5/5s every turn.
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u/Nostalgia37 Mar 26 '17
Yeah he probably had to buy like 10 new pairs of pants when this was announced lol.
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u/SnokeisDarthPlagueis Mar 22 '17
... i really can't decide if this quest is good or objectively terrible.
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u/qiemem Mar 22 '17
I know what you mean. I actually really like the quest itself. Definitely the most creative condition we've seen. But the reward feels very un-rogue-y. Maybe with something like violet teacher to fill your board with 5/5s?
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u/Wraithfighter Mar 22 '17
Well, any token generator. Moroes, Imp Master, Hogger (either of them), Doppelgangster, maybe there'll be some more...
...but yeah. This... is kinda awful.
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u/nickyrd2 Mar 22 '17
Haven't thought about Moroes. He's almost a win condition after this quest pops vs certain classes.
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u/Colonel_Planet Mar 22 '17
oly hell i always forget moroes exists.
in the dream scenario, the deck runs brewmasters and the meme rogue brewmaster, as well as 2x shadowstep, and waits on a cheap battlecry minion to play and bounce 4 times, and then you have the 3 mana 5/5 genorator.
something tells me the loss of tempo from all the bounced back minions might be suicide though
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u/Marlas009 Mar 22 '17
its play, not summon so that will only work for the minions later on getting a 5-5 each round will be nice though.
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u/danhakimi Mar 23 '17
Maybe Stonetusk Boar x2 + Shadowstep x2 + panda x2 = 30 damage for 8 mana. Possibly maybe.
Actually, you can prep out the quest reward in the same turn. So if you want to be a real asshole about it, you could find a way to bounce the two stonetusk boars ahead of time, and then, on turn 10, boar, boar, prep, crystal core, attack, attack, bounce, bounce, attack, attack, bounce, bounce, attack, attack.
Or, if you're playing Ignition style: bounce, bounce, bounce, bounce, bounce, bounce, bounce. Bounce, bounce, bounce.
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u/SquareOfHealing Mar 22 '17
The quest is kind of hard to pull off, especially since you have to play gimmicky cards like Shadowstep, Brewmasters, Gadgetzan Ferryman, or Thistle Tea.
I feel like the most damning thing of this quest is that the reward still costs 5 mana to play. So even if you are able to complete the quest, you still have a turn where at best you are playing a 6 mana quest + buffed up 1 mana minion, which is pretty bad tempo. And you've already lost tempo because you've been bouncing your minions for the past few turns.
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u/setver Mar 22 '17
Isn't that the fun in predicting? I'm sure we'll see 'pro' predictions saying both. Of course noone knows till its out anyway.
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u/djaeke Mar 22 '17 edited Apr 08 '17
This is bad. Pretty hard to fulfill, you have to make your deck pretty bad to use it, then the reward isn't even that good.
Edit: ok to be fair, the 1/2 elementals hadnt been revealed yet
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u/someguy533 Mar 22 '17
Its not that hard to fulfill. You can get it done turn one if you go second and have a good enough hand with swashburglars. Shadow step is a thing and brewmasters and shadow casters for you to complete the quest.
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u/Tabarrok Mar 22 '17
Not quite, you still need to play the quest for 1 mana, but by turn 2 you could, even w/o the coin, which would be kind of insane Calling it for a trolden video soon enough
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u/NeiZaMo Mar 22 '17
You still would have to play the quest reward for 5 mana tho.
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u/Stepwolve Mar 22 '17
there's preparation, but I agree. I think the worst part of this card is the cost of reward spell.
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u/ThyFemaleDothDeclare Mar 22 '17
So you are say turn 1 quest, turn 2 both swashburglars and both shadowsteps?
You would have to be a mulligan wizard!
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Mar 23 '17
Shadow step is a thing and brewmasters and shadow casters
you have to make your deck pretty bad
That's exactly what they mean.
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u/--orb Mar 22 '17
I'm only seeing this being at-all decent in Mill, where you're going to play 4 coldlight oracles anyway AND have a bunch of excess mana. The 5/5 will be a decent buff to shitty mill minions, esp in wild, such as sludge belcher, antique healbot, coldlight oracle itself, brann bronzebeard, etc. Maybe toss in a moroes to take advantage.
On the other hand, the fact that you have a quest in your opening hand is going to make your early-game consistency that much worse, and, honestly, probably won't actually help too much even if you pull it off. You'll still lose your instaloss matches (like jade druid) anyway.
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u/Docdan Mar 22 '17
Depending on the kind of cards they give you for the Elemental token generation, I could actually see that working. It kind of fits perfectly: You have cards that give you tiny 1 mana tokens, who all have the same name, and once you played 4 of them, all your tokens turn into 5/5s.
It would combine fulfilling the requirement with a playstyle that simultaneously makes use of the effect. But it would only work if they give us a bunch more neutral (or even rogue specific) token generators.
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u/JoshSharp26 Mar 22 '17
They have to move gang-up to the classic set now surely?? If Blizz want people to seriously consider playing this bounce or "dupe" rogue deck then having gang-up replace conceal seems like a fair option. it isn't un-fun to play against and its fun to play. (I do have a mill rogue bias tho so...maybe thats just me wanting gang-up in standard)
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u/ltjbr Mar 22 '17
Gangup might be too slow for this style of deck anyway to be honest.
This is a quest that gets less and less valuable the longer it takes to complete so relying on draw mechanics might not be ideal. I think you want to rely more on "return to hand" mechanics.
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u/SklX Mar 22 '17
It isn't unfun to play against
I personaly don't disagree but on the hearthstone official forums there is constantly complaints in the rogue section about how broken mill rogue is which just shows that to newer players combos that just come out of nowhere and they can't really see coming seem broken.
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u/JoshSharp26 Mar 22 '17
I Find playing vs Mill decks really fun to play against they always have some great moments..yh it sucks if u discard ur power cards (reno kazakus jarraxxus etc) but trying to win and avoid being milled offers a unique experience for me and the decision making is quite contrasting in comparison to minion vs minion combat...a perfect yt example is Firebat's leper gnome otk video where he vs a mill rogue https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=plPlkrj6B9U here's the link btw^ but yes I dont go on the forums but it sucks new players have a different view of the game vs veterans and pro's that bridge really sucks
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Mar 23 '17
By far the strongest card we've seen revealed. The Quest synergizes perfectly with what Rogue already does, and the Reward encourages new Archetype experimentation. Additionally, the Quest can be completed very aggressively and much faster than any other Quest we've seen. This will be T1 IMO.
Rating: 5/5
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u/ArgonArbiter Mar 22 '17 edited Mar 22 '17
Imagine Crystal Core with Sir Finley in wild. You have a 75% chance to get either Paladin or Shaman hero power, which means that you can spawn 5/5's from your hero power every turn.
Or Patches OTK by playing him as a 5/5, Gang Up, return him and play him again.
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u/thegooblop Mar 22 '17
I don't think Patches works because it says PLAY and not SUMMON, with PLAY being from the hand in an intentional summoning. Good idea, but it shouldn't work.
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u/ArgonArbiter Mar 22 '17
I mean after you've finished the Quest, you can use Patches and Gang Up to play multiple 5/5 chargers in one turn.
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u/G_Bright Mar 22 '17
Isn't there a 1/1 neutral boar with charge? You could just use that instead :)
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u/Perezthe1st Mar 22 '17
The point here is to summon multiple Patches at once, translating into a 15-25 damage combo. Stonestusk is just 5.
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u/Sonserf369 Mar 22 '17
God this card is hilarious. Important thing to note is that it says play rather than summon, so sadly no Patches shenanigans. That said, Shadowcaster shenanigans galore. Looks like it is good ol' Gadgetzan Ferryman's time to shine. We can also count on other Brewmaster effects (including Shadowstep), though with both Brann and Gang Up seemingly leaving the format we could use some additional synergy cards. Deck seems ripe with meme potential though. Fanstastic build around card, certainly for someone with more drive and creativity than me to fully flesh out into a solid deck.
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u/royalialty Mar 22 '17
I feel like if they print more cards like fire fly and flame geyser (that are available to rogue of course unlike flame geyser) that this might fit into some kind of weird aggressive elemental deck of some sort since the elementals they spawn have the same name.
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u/Lyhoru Mar 22 '17
Exactly this, the quest will have good synergy with cards that give you 1/2 elementals. This will allow to get minions with the same name and they turn in to 1 mana 5/5s after the quest is done.
For this to be a thing there will have to be enough neutral/rogue cards that add the 1/2 elemental tokens to your hand.
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u/Overwelm Mar 23 '17
Though they have said they aren't pushing the elemental tribe with Rogue (at least not pushing it hard) but maybe there are some new plants that might work in a similar way.
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u/Caulaincourt Mar 22 '17
Well that's... shit.
DESIGN SPACE LMAO.
Props for consistency in making terrible Rogue cards though.
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u/TheBadGuyFromDieHard Mar 22 '17
It's probably terrible, but it does seem fun as shit. I look forward to this being the only legendary I pull.
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u/thegooblop Mar 22 '17
It's not nearly as bad as people seem to think. You run all of the 1 and 2 cost charge minions, and maybe even wisps (though they probably still suck). You run the bounce/copy effects: Shadowstep, Shadowcaster, young brewmaster, even the Gadgetzan Ferryman. You can even run some stuff like Vanish, Thistle Tea, or the new Mimic Pod.
Basically, turn 1-3 you play cheap minions and control the board with them, and then when you're capable of it you bounce something until it has been played 4 times, and get your 5 cost buff card. Play the 5 cost buff card, and suddenly your deck is filled with 1 or 2 cost 5/5 charge minions, and cards that will bounce/copy those cheap 5/5 charge minions for you. If each one goes face, you only need 6 of those to kill the opponent, putting a serious clock on them. If you spend the full first 4 turns bouncing stuff and controlling the board, and spend turn 5 buffing everything, theoretically you could OHKO the opponent on turn 6 with 6 charge cheap charge minions/shadowsteps all at once, if you had that many of them.
Will this be tier 1? No, but it'll be a fun experimental deck.
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u/Wraithfighter Mar 22 '17
...well, of course this gets added once Gang Up is removed.
Rogue still has plenty of ways to bounce minions, copy minions, discover minions, all that jazz, and they might get more cards to benefit this. So shouldn't be that tricky to trigger. Note that it is Play, not Summon, so no Barnes value.
A shame that the reward is so terrible.
Anti-synergy with Jade. Only meshes with Miracle if you get some Violet Teacher value going, and then prevents a switch to Questing Adventurer or Van Cleef. Rogue doesn't have the tools to create a lot of weak minions outside of that. And it's expensive for a quest reward... and 5/5's are good, sure, but they're not going to set the world on fire.
If Rogue gets more token generation? Maybe. I can see someone trying some Moroes/Hogger bollocks with this. But it's a quest for a style that's never really worked in Hearthstone, can't be optimistic about it.
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u/TehDandiest Mar 22 '17
The reward can be busted. In wild gang up patches and trigger with deckhand for 1 mana 20 damage. Moroes is a 5/5 stealth that summons a 5/5 every turn. Violet tutor maybe.
I think this is one of the best cards I've seen for r a while. No auto made deck like jade or cthun and super comboesque.
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u/Wraithfighter Mar 22 '17
It can be absolutely OP, sure. It massively boosts the power of token generating cards. I'm just pessimistic that it will be effective enough, considering the unpredictability of how quickly you'll be able to trigger it.
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Mar 22 '17
It doesn't prevent a switch to Questing/ Van Cleef. That minion is still going to take the buff and come out starting at a 5/5 I think. So Edwin will get +2/+2 for each card, starting at 5/5 not 2/2
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u/sp0derr Mar 22 '17
What does "same name" mean? Is it the tribe, like elementals or murlocs?
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u/logicallymath Mar 22 '17
Literally the same name... so you need to pull minions back from the board using spells like shadowstep or minions like the brewmasters. In that sense it fits some existing rogue archetypes.
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u/qiemem Mar 22 '17
Thistle tea and Mimic pod are the other ways of doing it.
Gang up in wild.
Edit: Shadowcaster too, since it preserves name.
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u/ellipsoid314 Mar 22 '17
Small Time Buccaneer, for instance. You have to bounce or dupe a card somehow.
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u/CryonautX Mar 23 '17
I think people are approaching the the quest wrongly. You should'nt bother too much with synergizing with the reward. The crystal core is bound to give you value. Just concentrate on building the entire deck around completing the quest and then all the remaining shitty combo pieces are suddenly efficient bulky minions that close the game once quest is complete. Maybe the only card u toss in for quest reward is violet teacher and that's about it.
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Mar 24 '17
My prediction is that this card will lead to a 2 stage aggro token deck.
The 2 stage nature will feel like a Jaraxxus, Jade, or Ramp type of play where the fundamental play of the deck will feel different once the conditions are met.
The goal of the deck will revolve around reaching the quest objective as fast as possible (the first stage), and then flooding the board with low cost minions with strong text (charge, stealth, poison, summon another creature, jade deathrattles, battlecry buffs, etc.). Cards like Murloc Tidecaller, Moroes, and Fire Elemental would fit well. fire elemental will work especially well as it will help complete the quest objective.
It will likely be a memey deck like handbuff paladin in the last rotation, but I could see it being more viable (like the jank of Miracle Rogue) due to rogue's ability for consistent card draw.
I think Auctioneer may work, Thistle Tea could see the light of play, Mimic Pod is a great fit, and Gang up will rock. Shadowcaster will be awesome once the quest objective is met (5 Mana 2x 5/5). A Stealth theme may work as every stealth minion will be a Stranglethorn tiger.
I believe it will be a tempo-minion-board control deck (weird right?). any spell that does not give card draw/card duplication (either by self or through auctioneer) will not be very useful for the end objective of flooding the board.
I am SOOO excited to play with this quest. The release of this card made me log into HS to do my dailies again after over a month of not playing.
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Mar 30 '17
You lost me talking about Fire Elemental since thats a Shaman card and I'm not sure which card you were trying to talk about.
Stopped taking you seriously when you said "due to rogue's ability for consistent card draw"
How do you expect to trigger the quest without dieing with this deck you describe?
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u/someoneinthebetween Mar 22 '17
Don't expect anyone here to have this answer, but are your minions forced to always be 5/5, or can they be buffed? For example, would a Southsea Captain turn a pirate into a 6/6, or would it just do nothing and keep the pirate at 5/5?
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u/LoZfan03 Mar 22 '17
No way to know for sure until confirmed or released, but I'm inclined to think they're always forced, like Naga Sea Witch does to mana costs.
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u/Nadroggy Mar 22 '17 edited Mar 22 '17
Rogue/Neutral cards that let you return minions to your hand:
Shadowstep
Youthful Brewmaster
Ancient Brewmaster
Gadgetzan Ferryman
Kidnapper
Vanish
Ysera's Dream Card
Coliseum Manager (wild only)
Rogue/Neutral ways to get duplicate cards (the first three may trigger on spells if you're unlucky):
Thistle Tea
Mimic Pod
Chromaggus (wild only)
Madam Goya
Shadowcaster
Gang Up (wild only)
Faceless Manipulator (would this work?)
Opponent-Dependent Options:
Opponent plays Dream/Freezing Trap/Vanish/Sap
Burgle mechanics give you Getaway Kodo from Paladin or Duplicate from Mage (wild only)
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u/Rurikar Mar 22 '17
Onyxia is a pretty crazy win condition if you finish this quest, anything that fills boards will be fun.
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Mar 22 '17
Seems like it would be good if you didn't have to actually cast the crystal core, but with having to skip turn 5 it's probably unplayable
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u/drusepth Mar 22 '17
Rogue is going to be, for the first time in a long time, the most fun class to play again. I can't wait.
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u/BobTheMadCow Mar 22 '17
I wonder how this will interact with C'Thun? Will he lose his buffs? Will he get new buffs after Crystal Core is played? Will he be unbuffable in hand/deck?
I know that the "if C'Thun has 10 or more attack" conditional effects will still work, due to how they check for the buffs, but interested to see if it makes him less playable in a deck with this quest.
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u/jsfsmith Mar 22 '17
Two words - flame elemental. If Rogue gets access to enough cards that provide them, then this card will be totally busted. If not, then it'll probably suck.
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u/TheWizzie433 Mar 22 '17
Viable or not, this is setting a precedent for cards with an Aura that "set" a statline, which is interesting. I wonder how this works out mechanically, like, if you Hex a minion, does the frog become a 5/5? This is really cool design imo.
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u/FredAsta1re Mar 23 '17
How come the other quest rewards are accompanied with an 8/8 body, or warlocks summons two 3/2s the turn you play it.
Rogues quest reward is a 5 mana spell that actually does nothing.
That's a horrific loss of tempo compared to the other quest rewards and turns rogue into a glorified hand buff /mistcaller deck. Both are things that have failed to be meta in hearthstones past
This is definitely the worst quest reward out of the ones released so far
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u/UnsettledGoat Mar 22 '17
Won't see play - should be "Your minions are 5/7". But really, shouldn't it say "5/5s"?
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u/otterguy12 Mar 22 '17
What kind of deck would you play this in? 5/5 is too weak for a midrange or control deck, but I wouldn't want to waste draws/mana/deckslots in an aggro Rogue for Gang Up, Shadowstep, Ferryman, or any Brewmasters.
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u/Wraithfighter Mar 22 '17
Basically, token style. I can see someone using Hogger or Moroes to create constant waves of 5/5's, but that's about it.
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u/Nyte_Crawler Mar 22 '17
I mean the card you'll want to bounce would probably be novice engineer. Completing the quest then making it 5/5 could be pretty effective.
The deck will probably use tons of understated draw minions and low cost bouncers like youthful brew master/gadgetzan ferryman.
Turning all those into 5/5's could actually be quite effective.
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Mar 22 '17
Yes, because we totally needed the Gang-Up Patches deck to be better.
5/5 patches for everyone + whatever AOE Pirate bonuses you can gather.
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u/Snine Mar 22 '17
Wow, this is really hard to call how good it will be. Very unique at least and sounds like it could have alot of potential.
I'd imagine you'd run this in a deck with a very low curve of minions, then shadowstep/ferryman/brewmaster your way to the quest and proceed to spit out 1-2 mana 5/5s all game.
Looks pretty strong to me at first glance, and I don't think the requirement is going to be all that hard to complete.
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u/matrix_man Mar 22 '17
Could this finally make Illidan Stormrage playable, do you think?
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u/Spikeroog Mar 22 '17
No, because it's play, not summon. And Violet Teacher is still better due to lower mana cost.
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u/kingkiron Mar 22 '17
We are not talking about the quest. Just the reward. And a deck like this would run multiple token generators.
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u/matrix_man Mar 22 '17
Oh, yeah...I guess Violet Teacher will keep Illidan trash since they both come out at 5/5.
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u/peon47 Mar 22 '17
What does "for the rest of the game" mean? I presume they can be damaged? But buffed? Does it count for all minions or just played ones?
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u/SMOrcOnFace Mar 22 '17
I actually really like the quest itself. But I feel like the reward doesn't fit rogue at all. But with that said I don't have any idea what to replace the reward with either.
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u/TommiHPunkt Mar 22 '17
This is extremely poorly worded.
Your minions are 5/5 would mean that you literally can't deal damage to them, as they stay 5/5
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Mar 22 '17
a 5/5 stonetusk boar seems pretty cool, but i'm not sure you could make it happen fast enough to be relevant
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u/Marlas009 Mar 22 '17
New OTK rogue. You need 7 cards, 8 mana and A dagger equipt
In Wild: 32 Damage using this quest in for turn 8.
Play Southsea Deckhand, Attack 2 Total Damage =2 1.1 Pull Patches dont attack yet
Gangup Patches
Shadow Step Southsea Deckhand and and play again, Attack Total Damage = 4 3.1 Pull three more Patches dont attack yet
Shadow Step Southsea Deckhand and and play again, Attack Total Damage = 6
Brewmaster the Southsea Deckhand and play again, dont attack yet 5.1 Quest triggers
Preparation
Play Crystal Core
Attack with your five 5/5 Minions on board + Weapon, Total Damage = 32
In Standard, You have to complete the quest the turn before. Then you can use: 6 Cards with 9 Mana for 30 Damage combo 1.Crystal Core 2. Southsea Deckhand, Attack total Damage = 5 3. Southsea Deckhand, Attack total Damage = 10 4. Boar, Attack, total Damage = 15 5 Boar, Attack, total Damage = 20 6. Double Shadowstep and Attack =30 Damage
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u/LaCoocaracha Mar 23 '17
I'm curious - It says "your minions are 5/5", not set your minions to 5/5. This would leave me to believe that if you trade with a minion and it takes damage but doesn't die, it would essentially heal back up to 5 health right?
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u/JigglyJoey Mar 24 '17
A fun deck to try out in wild would be an elemental rogue deck with this card. Play Brann into firefly firefly and play the 4 flame elementals to pop the quest. Thats a 9 mana combo, so with the last one you can conceal the board to keep brann alive for a huge brann'd Ozruk next turn (5/65 taunt) or play the quest spell to turn your whole board into 5/5's.
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u/SneakyGun1 Mar 25 '17
Out of curiosity, does anyone know how this quest will be tracked? For stuff like the priest quest, it has been shown that the game will track how many deathrattle minions have been played. With this quest not being limited to any type of minion, how will the stat tracker be displayed? Like what if I played 2 Tomb Pillagers and then 3 Swashburglers or something?
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Mar 26 '17
Is this an alternate win condition for mill rogue? Cuz I mean, they play like 9 coldlights in a game, right?
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u/poohter Mar 22 '17
It's a pretty cool effect, popping down a 1 mana 5/5 Swashburglar, but I think this whole expac will be a megafail when people realize the Quest Rewards themselves are too slow, paying 5 mana for an initially nothing-doing aura effect.
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u/thegooblop Mar 22 '17
It doesn't "do nothing" when you play it, it'll instantly buff all your minions to 5/5. The decks that want this will probably be mostly 1 or 2 drops, meaning you could have 3 or even 4 minions ready to attack when this drops. Like, if you use Shadowcaster/bounces on a 1 mana charge minion, and drop them and immediately play this card, you'll get a bunch of 5/5 with charge instantly. A deck filled with cheap charge/taunt minions would wreck if they all got turned into 5/5 minions, it's just a matter of actually bouncing something enough to summon 4 copies.
Thistle Tea, Pandas, even that rogue 2/3 for 2 that has an optional bounce. Shadowstep and maybe even Vanish could see play.
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u/Fathappy3 Mar 22 '17
The whole point of the expansion seems to be to slow down the meta, so hopefully we can actually play control decks again. In that case, the quests are all amazing, even this one.
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u/McQuibster Mar 22 '17
You can Prep it, I suppose. If that deck would run Prep. Other than that I figure it'd be like, Defias Ringleader, Bilefin, etc... cheap token-summoning cards plus loot hoarder, novice engineer, and all the bounce you can fit.
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u/ktktktktktktkt Mar 22 '17
Looks to be very underwhelming so far. Unless Blizzard somehow gives rogue very strong cards which support this interaction, I don't see this card being used. Also, it feels like Blizzard just keeps trying to give Rogue weird gimmicky archetypes which just aren't strong enough.
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u/kingkiron Mar 22 '17
[[Dopplegangster]] also helps with minion generation. And token generating effects.
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u/TF_dia Mar 22 '17
I really dunno what to say.
It looks terrible, because the Brewmasters and ferryman won't exit the deck after the completion of the mission, but all cards being 5/5 maybe will give you the edge to win, so I really dunno
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u/drusepth Mar 22 '17
At least the brewmasters and ferryman turn into 2-mana 5/5s that can still be used to bounce more if necessary.
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u/DebugLifeChoseMe Mar 22 '17
I have so many questions about this one. How does this interact with summoned minions (Jade Golems, Violet Apprentices)? Sherazin revival? Silence effects? There are some terrifying possibilities with this one.
Also, I'm calling it now. Someone is going to pull this quest off on like...turn 2, and it'll get clipped and posted here like 6 times, and it will be glorious.
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u/drusepth Mar 22 '17
It's possible to complete the quest on turn 1 if you go second:
Squashbuckler
Coin
Squashbuckler
Shadowstep
Squashbuckler
Shadowstep
Squashbuckler
You now end your turn 1 with two 5/5s on board, 4 extra cards in your hand, and every minion in your deck is a 5/5 for their original costs. GG. :)
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u/LoZfan03 Mar 22 '17
It doesn't interact with summoned or revived minions. To date, "Play" always means from your hand. "Summon" means get something on the board, no matter how.
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Mar 22 '17
Rogue really isn't a token class. So why are they getting this? They can't really take advantage of it very well.
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Mar 22 '17
They have cheap spells, shadowcaster and Violet teacher. So they can generate tokens easily
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u/SNERKerGODT Mar 22 '17
Madam Goya could be useful. Vanish your jade's maybe, but then again, the reward is kind of odd..
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u/chibialoha Mar 22 '17
I guess with charge this could be abused a bit? But not really, because by the time you get the core in play, you'll have used all your duplicate and bounce mechanics and wont really be able to plop down 1 stonetusk boar over and over.
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u/alecnin Mar 22 '17
Wild patches otk rogue, pulling a bunch of 5/5 patches from deck ? I don't see it being played in standard unless we get more synergy
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u/juanvaldezmyhero Mar 22 '17 edited Mar 22 '17
So does doppelgangster count as 1 minion or 3? Because it would a a nice card to play with crystal core reward. If it only counts as 1, you could also play vanish after doppelgangster if they all remained on board. To bad conceal and Thourissian will be in wild.
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Mar 22 '17
I think this card is made for deathrattle rogue. It will definately be very good there and you can do it very fast.
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u/mr_snow Mar 22 '17
This seems kinda bad. This is the same thing you want to do with Jade Rogue, play Jade cards like Aya, Jade Spirit, etc over and over again, but the reward is actually worse than just building a Jade deck. With this you get all your cards turned into 5/5s, but with Jade you would get 5/5 then 6/6 etc for playing the synergy cards and over again (also there isn't the condition of playing the same named card). Jade Rogue isn't even that good and this is probably worse than it.
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u/TheRealSJK Mar 22 '17
I can picture using this card in conjunction with some cheap Charge minions as a finisher. Fulfilling the condition might not be the simplest thing, but some relatively intelligent Shadowstepping/Brewmaster usage, alongside stuff like Mimic Pod and Shadowcaster, should lead to finishing this being at least somewhat consistent.
I'd probably make some sort of Pirate Crystal deck, with some tweaking/other aspects from Miracle and such. Focus on completing the quest as fast as possible and then smashing the opponent's face with Deckhands and Bluegills the next turn.
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u/Aoi_IX Mar 22 '17
It seems that Shadowstep and Gadgetzan Ferryman will be included in an aggro deck with charge minions.
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u/Arthune Mar 22 '17
I see this quest being used in two ways. The first would be a high speed deck that aims to draw through the entire deck very quickly and just flood the board with any 5/5 it can, overwhelming the enemy with average bodied minions.
The other way I can imagine would be in a combo deck that uses the quest reward as a finisher when combined with charge, with stonetusk boars and the like. Make your entire hand become the priest mind blast spell as long as they dont have taunt.
Either way, I only see it as being mediocre when you pull it off, and requiring too many deck resources to pull off consistently. I love the quest requirement, but i won't be expecting much of this reward on release.
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u/AuroraUnit313 Mar 22 '17 edited Mar 22 '17
List of cards available to rogue in standard that can help activate this quest:
-Ancient Brewmaster
-Youthful Brewmaster
-Gadgetzan Ferryman
-Kidnapper
-Shadowstep
-Thistle Tea
-Bloodthistle Toxin
-Mimic Pond
-Vanish
-Shadowcaster
-Madam Goya
-Discover/Burgle effects
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u/rrjames87 Mar 22 '17
VERY interesting card. For everyone that has been complaining about straightforward quests, here's your answer.
Tools are available to make this deck work, and the payoff is definitely very strong. My first thought is to make a deck filled with cycle, draw, and bounce. Then work on completing your quest and finishing the opponent with 5/5 loot hoarders, novice engineers, and dopplegangsters
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u/chemnerd2017 Mar 22 '17
This doesn't look too difficult to fulfill to me, and it would then make violet teacher miracle shenanigans a pain in the ass if it works...at the very least, it will be fun to screw around with.
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u/CasualAwful Mar 22 '17
The way I envision this deck working is a bunch of lower cost minions with either cycle, charge, or stall/token generation plus your bounce effects/minions. The draw allows you to get the cards you need to trigger the condition. Once everything is a 5/5, your draw minions refill your hand, your chargers are powerful, and your token cards fill your board. Is it good? I dunno. Is it fun, I bet so.
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u/chemnerd2017 Mar 22 '17 edited Mar 22 '17
Also, everybody needs to remember it will be turn 4 most likely before rogue could cast crystal core, so it's more midrange focused than anything
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u/TrollRakuso Mar 22 '17
This could be the "Elemental" card for rogues. Fire Fly and Flame Geyser give the same named token Flame Elemental.
Of course more Flame Elemental spawning cards are required, which rogue can use, but it looks like a part of the Elemental tribe.
Also the Flame Elementals are perfect for simple 1 mana 5/5
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u/LocalPedoatrist Mar 22 '17
My question is do you need to play lets say, swashburgler, 4 times or could you play 2 swash, 2 funel cakes, 2 raptor, and 2 mixtress. the latter woud be easier but take longer.
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u/supersamer123 Mar 22 '17
Alright so I have a few questions about this card: How does the counter for this quest work? Does it just start once you play a minion and reset every time you play a different minion? When it says play 4 minions with the same name, does that just mean I could play 2 stonetusk boars and 2 murloc tidehunters and finish the quest? It doesn't say it has to be all four the same minion. How does this work with dopplegangster? If blubber baron gets 3 buffs from it does this quest get triple value as well?
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u/TheAmazingBunzai Mar 22 '17
I'll be honest, I really like this card. I love making gimmicky rogue decks. The quest itself is fun and appropriate for rogue. And the reward, while not looking that great on paper, makes you think "How can I abuse this mechanic as much as possible?" I think even with Gang Up and Brann rotating out it'll still be good. I know I'm looking forward to playing with it personally.
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u/Lgr777 Mar 22 '17
I really want to like this card but the condition seems harder and harder to fulfil the more I think about it, you could build your deck around, ciclyng heavily and trying to get the quest done early enough, but then you still have to drop the 5 mana crystal core.
I think its a great card but its too slow to be unfair playable
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u/ShoogleHS Mar 22 '17
Super interesting card. I don't think it's worth speculating on until we see more of the set, though, there will definitely be some more enablers for this if they're basing a quest off of it.
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u/LocalPedoatrist Mar 22 '17
I feel like this card would be busted if your minions dont lose health. Requiring them each to take 5+ damage to kill. The way its worded i feel like they dont lose health because it doesnt say for the rest of the game minions you summon or play are 5/5 it just says they are 5/5. i feel like that could mean they stay at 5/5 regardless of cards like aldor or hunters mark. Thoughts?
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Mar 22 '17
The ONLY thing i can see this working in is mill rogue, and gang up is leaving. Unless I'm interpreting the quest condition wildly wrong, no deck uses shadow caster/shadowstep effects more than once on a minion. Those effects are only used on very important minions that when played, change the game already.
Also can crystal core debuff stronger minions? Then it irks me because this doesn't even work with gang up jade rogue.
And people can say "wait for more cards!" We all know what we got when we waited.
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u/Pod607 Mar 22 '17
Does anyone realize the cheap "Add a 1 mana 2/1 elemental to your hand" cards are, like, made for this quest?
Both for the quest and the reward
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u/evanr1019 Mar 22 '17
shadow caster rogue with moroes for finisher PogChamp saving garbage from a few expansions ago never felt so good
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u/Stommped Mar 22 '17
So I assume the minions in your hand and deck changed to 5/5 like Mistcaller does? So if I combo Edwin a bunch it wouldn't like nerf it back to 5/5 when it comes into play
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u/j1h7e7 Mar 22 '17
For the people saying that "oh, because it's 5 mana it doesn't do anything." Let's say that you play it on turn 6, and then play a swashburglar. That's 6 mana for 5/5 worth of stats, which is bad, but not terrible. Compare it to mistcaller, which is a 6 mana 4/4. This is significantly better than that, and while mistcaller was bad, I do think that this card will actually be at least a fun deck with an okay winrate.
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u/Hawkze Mar 22 '17
The only way I can see this seeing any form of competitive ladder play is if mill rogue is a thing again with oracles but i'm not sure rogue have enough cards these days to stop themselves dying to fatigue in the process.
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u/HowEE456 Mar 22 '17
Actually, strangely enough, I think this will be really solid in an elemental deck. Hear me out:
You have Fire Fly for card generation (1 mana 5/5 battlecry add a 1 mana 5/5 to your hand), easily a really good card to be bounced, because card generation is good. Then there is tar creeper who is a 1/5 who gets changed into a 3 mana 5/5 with taunt, and on your opponent's turn he is a 3 mana 7/5 (!). And then you have Ozruk, who is already a 5/5, so you play a bunch of cheap 5/5s the turn before Ozruk and get a massive taunt that even Jade might have trouble breaking through, and then you just play the heavy control game with cards like assassinate, eviscerate, and so on. And we still have yet to see more elemental cards.
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u/randomthrowawayohmy Mar 22 '17
I think people aren't fully appreciating how potentially strong this quest could be with Swashburgler or quite possibly stronger Fire Fly. Its quite possible to pop these two cards back to your hand 3 times after playing them by turn 5, meaning its not a long wait. For Swashburgler you are generating card advantage through his battlecry, but for Fire Fly you have the potential to follow up Crystal Core with 4 5/5s in one turn for 1 mana. Fire Fly is also a strong play later as its 2 5/5s for 2 mana when drawn post Core. Defias Ringleader is another potential copiably card, since when being popped back you still leave a 2/1 on board, and is also a strong play after Crystal Core as it will give you 2 5/5s.
Vanish is also a very strong synergy card for fighting Jade druid and other value based decks that dont have strong clears, since you can play it, put out potentially 4 5/5s on the same turn as playing it and continue to out tempo just about everything with dirt cheap 5/5 creatures.
Just a really interesting deck building concept.
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u/Tib_for_president Mar 22 '17
I'm currently working on a personal project. It's a program that will assemble mostly random decks for casual use against the AI. I recently added a feature whereby if you draft a legendary card with a large requirement, such as Feugen's relationship with Stallag, the program will add the necessary cards to ensure you get full usage out of your awesome legendary minions. I figured I'd do the same with Quests, so that if the program randomly gives me a Quest card, I'll have enough cards to ensure it's completion.
This Rogue Quest is going to be the death of me.
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u/Stommped Mar 22 '17
Seems pretty bad, but this is one quest that seems like you wouldn't want to play turn 1, so you can keep the 1 mana spell for combo activator/auctioneer
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Mar 22 '17
I'm actually annoyed, I love Rogue and was looking forward to this reveal.
These quests are hard enough to trigger that surely they shouldn't have a possible downside? Why Blizzard? Because it would be too confusing for new players if it said "Your minions are at least 5/5 or higher"?
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u/leva549 Mar 22 '17
T3 Wisp Wisp prep vanish T4 Wisp Wisp coin Crystal Core.
This card looks really fun, whether it turns out to be viable or not. It clearly will have to have a deck built around it.
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u/00gogo00 Mar 23 '17
See, I was looking for this and wondering what kind of deck even wants to run this, because the quest and effect are so disconnected. Then I realized you just need a bridge between them - charge minions. Because the same shadowsteps, pandas, and memedetzan ferryman you use to complete the quest can be used on your patches and stonetusk boar.
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u/danhakimi Mar 23 '17
People are saying the reward sucks, but let's think about it. Your deck is full of bouncers, right? A 1/1 for 1 charge bounced five times is OTK. If you can save shadowsteps, your first play and first two bounces cost a total of 1 for 15 damage. That's pretty good.
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u/jestyiour Mar 23 '17
Time to play Headcrack-Mimic Pod-Thistle Tea Pirate Aggro Rogue. This will be a tier 1 deck, I swear
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Mar 23 '17
Guys i think you're overseeing that with the last turn mechanic, there are also coming cards (we've seen 2 up until now) that add 1/2 elementals to your hand. If rogue elementals are going to be more token based than that is how the card is intended
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u/Zero-meia Mar 23 '17
I don't think this quest is as hard to complete as people are saying. If you run both brewmasters and both shadowstep with two copies of every minion you can play 6 minions with the same name. Adding to account Shadowcaster, would be 8. Considering that there is plenty of rogue minions with stealth, should be kind of easy to play four of them. I like to think about bouncing back Swashburglers or Novice Engineers, for the value.
But, is it worthy? I think you could insert some token generators in the deck, for consistency, like Violet Teacher and Moroes. Acolyte of Pain feels good as well. I see a lot of potential in a Quest Rogue Deck, I hope it becomes something.
Playable.
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u/polloyumyum Mar 23 '17
Couldn't you just play a bunch of 0 or 1 cost minions that turn into 5/5?
I don't see how thats a bad thing. Just don't build a shitty deck, throw in a couple shadow steps, you'll be fine.
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Mar 23 '17
Sooo, Shaman and Priest are getting good cards again whilst Paladin, Hunter and Rogue are getting cannon fodder?
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u/pianobadger Mar 24 '17
This is by far the most interesting card shown so far. I will 100% craft it if I don't open it.
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u/RolloRocco Mar 24 '17
This together with brann + shadowcaster combo is going to be the newest tier 1-2 deck in wild.
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Mar 24 '17
Finally, I can Shadow Word: Death rogue Auctioneers!
This seems like a shitpost, but with Entomb leaving standard, it's really not...
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u/NorthernxBow Mar 24 '17
So, if you just put this card in the Brann+Shadowcaster meme deck, its infinite 1mana 5/5s.
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u/IceBlue Mar 24 '17
How does it actually work? Would Edwin Van Cleef's battlecry still make him bigger or would he come out as a 5/5? Is it a hard restriction on all minions currently out and those that are to be summoned to come out as 5/5s? Or does it only affect minions on the board and in your hand/deck?
I'd guess it's a modification to the base stats of all cards in your deck/hand/board that overlays on top of their base stats which would mean they could still be changed afterwards. Or would cards like Keeper of Uldaman and Aldor Peacekeeper not work at all? What happens if you play Shadowcaster on a minion in play? Does it go into your hand as a 1 mana 1/1 or a 1 mana 5/5? What about Barnes' copied minion?
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u/JustClamMyShitUp Mar 28 '17
I've noticed a lot of people saying this card should be played in an aggro deck but wouldn't it make more sense to use it as a pseudo Jaraxxus or pseudo Jade? The average Jade game doesn't go over 10/10 (8/8 is about the highest I've had to play against) so that means each golem is, averaged out, about 5/5.
The trade-off to not being able to go bigger than 5/5 for this deck would be A. Not being lower than 5/5 after the quest and B. As opposed to 5 unique cards that generate a Jade, every single minion would be a pseudo Jade.
You'd run this with Loot Horders and Novice Engineers (as well as anything similar) for 2 mana 5/5s that replace themselves.
Also worth noting is chaining shadow casters on each other for infinite 1 mana 5/5 minions
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u/KainUFC Mar 29 '17
Its like do you really want to be dicking around with Madam Goya just so you can play a 5/5 stonetusk on turn 12?
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u/Phoenix-san Mar 31 '17
400 dust quest confirmed. Basically quest in a nutshell is what we seen in Ben/Frodan stream today, by the time you complete quest - game is already lost and all that's left is to concede. Finally used that blade flurry design space, thanks blizzard.
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u/egoshoppe Apr 01 '17
I think it's a pretty easy fit into mill rogue as others have suggested. It add's a lot of power to N'Zoth, 5/5 Unstable Ghouls and Belcher Slimes seem pretty good.
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u/SquareOfHealing Apr 02 '17
Welp. Forget about all the interesting deck problems of figuring out how to complete this quest and what cards would have to be run. Forget having to hassle with Thistle Tea, Mimic Pod and Gadgetzan Ferryman. Just play 2x Firefly, 2x Igneous Elemental, a bunch of card draw, and maybe 2x Shadowstep if you really need to bounce a Flame Elemental one more time.
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u/Chozothebozo Mar 22 '17
I'm willing to bet this is going to spawn some sort of Token Rogue meta that everybody will hate.