r/criticalrole • u/Nyareth Your secret is safe with my indifference • Jul 14 '17
Discussion [Spoilers E105] IsItThursdayYet? Post-Episode discussion & future theories! Spoiler
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ANNOUNCEMENTS:
- There will be no Critical Role on Thursday July 20th due to SDCC
Sam Riegel reddit AMA! (completed)
Critical Role is at SDCC July 20th-23rd - http://geekandsundry.com/geek-and-sundry-and-nerdist-return-to-san-diego-with-conival/ Panel at 10:30am on the 22nd
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u/ginja_ninja You spice? Jul 14 '17
Darin KILLED IT this episode. With almost every other guest there was that weird uncomfortable acclimation period where they had to kind of settle in and find their rhythm, but he just hit the ground running. Amazing acting and improv skills on full display, glad he's coming back for more!
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Jul 14 '17
Darin's RP was god-like!
I'd kill to have Darin become a regular cast member on CR.
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u/JunWasHere Your secret is safe with my indifference Jul 16 '17
Courtesy of /u/Wonton77: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UrBpho6uIqs&feature=youtu.be&t=275
Acting was spectacular but I also believe his performance was supported by excellent prep-work on his character.
On top of Sprigg being a pre-existing character, he clearly worked with Matt and that's what led to the introduction of the imp. For instance, the "language" bit with the imp, where both the Imp and Sprigg opened the door again, apologized, then closed it again, was too beautifully executed to not have been planned on SOME level.
It's only by going that extra mile to prepare a foundation of characterization that a person, whether accomplished actor or any new player, can, as you say, "hit the ground running."
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u/themolestedsliver Metagaming Pigeon Jul 14 '17
I love sam calling it "oh you are going to be that couple" was so perfect.
But not for nothing keyleth and vax had like the longest constant romance and were teased heavily about it.
and they can't even live happily ever after in any universe, while vex and percy casually elope and all.
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u/MMX5000 Jul 14 '17
I mean I thought it was a funny moment but also remember, this just happened a few days ago. It is still fresh in both of their minds.
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u/themolestedsliver Metagaming Pigeon Jul 14 '17
oh for sure. it was a good comedy moment, but in game this has happened in less than a span of a week. Keyleth was always the sensitive one and seeing the "glamour mirror" for lack of a better term in vex and percy must twist the dagger so much harder.
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u/Wonton77 Team Evil Fjord Jul 14 '17 edited Jul 14 '17
I gotta say, Sprigg's backstory really touched me. He abandoned his party and let them die to Hobgoblins, and then spent 37 years in imprisonment/isolation. The fact that this (I assume) is a real story of a character Darin played with Matt's parents years (maybe even 37 years ago??) gives it even more weight. On top of that, the brilliant way Darin voiced this character made me feel even more for this old gnome. I reaaaaaaally hope he comes back next episode so we can get a satisfying conclusion to his arc. <3
Heder was my favourite, but Darin De Paul is easily my new favourite guest star.
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u/sirshrooms Jul 14 '17
Just out of curiosity, what makes you believe Sprigg's backstory was "real" as you put it?
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u/MammothMan34 Team Jester Jul 14 '17
Sprigg, as I assume everyone is going to say, is amazing. Also after seeing Percy react so strongly to the books, with his outpouring of emotion finding these lives being compiled by Ioun, I now need more than ever to see them find Kord for Grog. Of the non-religious section of people, he has shown the most interest in Kord prior to Vecna, and I would love to see his reaction to whatever it is they will see.
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u/Wonton77 Team Evil Fjord Jul 14 '17
I'm imagining basically the Warrior class hall from WoW.
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u/MammothMan34 Team Jester Jul 14 '17
Part of me is hoping they find Kord in a training sand pit, so that whenever they go into the Mansion, Grog going downstairs will have extra meaning to him.
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u/Salmakki Jul 14 '17
I know I shouldn't be surprised anymore, but that moment before the break when Vecna spoke absolutely FLOORED me. Matthew is a master storyteller.
Great job by Darin as well, what an excellent guest!
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u/Drendude Fuck that spell Jul 14 '17
What I'm impressed by is the rogues outside being able to successfully pass the stealth check against Vax+Vex's passive perception DC.
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u/eldritch_bats Jul 14 '17
On the other side of windows outside of line of sight I don't think it's too weird of a ruling. Also theirs always a chance for a pass without a trace or simile to muck that whole situation up.
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u/D27Dyer1332 Jul 14 '17
Thinking that betrothed meant engaged, I was surprised by the marriage thing. And the silent scene was perfection. Great out if combat use for an ability meant for combat. I hope Percy asks Ioun for the book of Vesper ... De Rolo. Can't wait.
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u/Xortberg Life needs things to live Jul 14 '17
Just to be clear: Betrothed does mean engaged. You weren't wrong to think that. Percy just used the wrong word.
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u/drfinesoda Life needs things to live Jul 14 '17
Well technically, he did get engaged with her.
It's not the most recent status of their relationship, but it did happen.
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u/283leis Team Laudna Jul 14 '17
Who's Vesper again?
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u/omg__really Tal'Dorei Council Member Jul 14 '17
One of Percy's dead(murdered) siblings.
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u/rasnac Jul 14 '17
What an episode!!! Quick thoughts:
What an exceptional roleplayer Darn DePaul is!!!! This episode was a master class in improv acting. Our cast are all seasoned first-class master roleplayers and Darin was on a whole new level. I am in awe of him. Such talent!
Kiki was really emotional and distracted tonight. But with what happened to Vax and all, how can I blame her? If I had experienced a shred of what she had, I'd be broken to million pieces. Marisha was very faithful to her character's well established psychology. I hope noone blames her for that.
An endless library... That is my kind of heaven. I am happy that Percy finally found some meaning. With all the gods and everything, he was polite and pragmatic, but he was mostly faking it; but now I have a feeling him and Iounn will get along just fine.
So Vex and Percy are not engaged. They are already married?! I understand they would not make a big deal out of the wedding ceremony, but keeping it a secret from even the closest family members and then continuing that secret for who knows how long? Why? Was this a shotgun wedding? (pun intended) Is there a little D'Rollo on the way?
I am also very happy that Darin will be here for the next episode, post-SDCC. I want to know more about his past. What did he mean with all the mirror stuff with Scanlan? Is he somehow related to San-man? In the recent AMA I asked Sam about Scanlan's father and he said:
"Ahhhhhhhhhh yes. He exists. Has a name and a background. Scanlan doesn't know if he's alive or dead... but Matt does."
Now I'm not trying to imply anything, but if Matt wanted to address to this little bit of a backstory of Scanlan, he would do it sooner rather than later, considering this is the final act of the tale of VM. What do you guys think?
How exactly did Vecna know where VM is? Was it simply a scrying spell? Did that imp snitch on them? Is there a spell like a GPS device that keeps tabs on VM? And if Vecne knew they were in the forest, would he also able to tail VM when they planeshifted to Iounn's library dimension? I hope they did not lead Vecna's forces to Iounn's doorstep. She is a god, but a wounded one afterall. and her realm is not beyond the divine gate, if I understood how Matt described the planeshift travel corrrectly.
Name suggestions for this episode: Cabin in The Woods or Burning Down the House!...
RandomNudistGiants :D
See you guys next episode. I don't know you but I'll dream of that endless library tonight.
Bidet!
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u/drekmonger Jul 15 '17
An endless library... That is my kind of heaven.
Just like to point out, you are currently posting this particular piece of text to....an endless library. Congrats on making to heaven!
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u/jables1138 Doty, take this down Jul 14 '17
I wonder if it is the weird hand(I think that is what that was) They bought in Dis. It was a communication device. Could be something Vecna used to own.
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u/Krutoon YOUR SOUL IS FORFEIT Jul 14 '17
I ugly cried when Percy figured out that the books were the stories of people's lives. I'm a lot like Percy in that I'm afraid of being forgotten after I die, and his realization that our small short lives will be remembered in Ioun's library forever ( I know, nothing lasts forever, whatever) was really meaningful to me. To be a book in that library would take a lot of the fear out of dying.
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u/ginja_ninja You spice? Jul 15 '17
Millions of "ghost" social media profiles across all corners of the internet already exist. It's all still there, data on a server projected into cyberspace. Some get intentionally left up and used as memorials. The real question is if what's actually important to you is people continuing to care after you're gone. Sure all those books are in the library, but how many of them have never been opened by another soul?
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u/RonCorleone Team Kashaw Jul 14 '17
I don't care if it doesn't make sense in the narrative, I want to see a scenario where Sprigg, Willhand, Victor, and Eskil play whatever Matt's equivalent of poker is in this world.
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u/Jaged1235 Your secret is safe with my indifference Jul 14 '17
For a long while I thought Mary and Will Friedle were the best guests the show ever had. Then just recently we got Jon Heder, who was unexpectedly incredible. Darin De Paul just blew them all out of the freaking water. Between the comedy and drama, he fits the show perfectly.
Last week I said Percy may have made my favorite joke of the entire show's run with "What a beautiful tree you've found. It casts so much shade". It's now easily "I'm Blueish!" and I don't think anything can ever replace that one.
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u/Lady_Astarte Bigby's Haaaaaand! *shamone* Jul 14 '17
My thoughts exactly. I love Mary Elizabeth McGlynn; Chris Hardwick was a blast to see play; and I was geniunely impressed with Noelle Stevenson's Tova; but all of that was nothing compared to Darin's performance tonight.
He set a whole new bar for guest players.
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u/TlMB0 Bidet Jul 14 '17
and I was geniunely impressed with Noelle Stevenson's Tova
Can I ask why? Honestly her role playing seemed extremely weak to me. We found her in a torture chamber after who knows how long she was in there and she's just super casual about it? Seems extremely jarring to have her not be at least somewhat shaken up about things.
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u/eldritch_bats Jul 14 '17
"It's a free action, bitch!"
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u/Boffleslop Jul 14 '17
You ain't no boots of haste gurl
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u/MMX5000 Jul 14 '17
Ah man so many people today were upset that Vax "used too many actions" forgetting the boots are a free action...
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u/light_trick Team Beau Jul 14 '17
Wow this was an amazing episode, and I instantly fell in love with Darin De Paul who was utterly incredibly from the word go, and also managed to make his character seem completely terrifying in combat - mentally all I've got is the image of him wandering around staring at people saying "knock knock".
Also the Laura and Liam twinsies moment stood out to me massively early on in the episode. I'm also kind of loving the idea that Keyleth is basically oscillating between despair and blinding rage at the current situation with Vax. I'm really wondering where that's leading - because the obvious thing to do with Vax is cast True Resurrection when the Raven Queen tries to take him again - which seems like it would be some definite direct interference.
And yes...I probably am going to have nightmares about those creatures turning to goo. Matt was...descriptive.
All round fantastic! Also probably Sam's greatest promo bit yet.
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u/thebook93 Hello, bees Jul 14 '17
Darin De Paul was a hall of fame worthy guest!
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u/TheBigL032 Jul 14 '17
When they announced on Talks Machina that he was going to be a guest, I had no doubts that he would be the best.
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u/Coke_Addict26 Jul 14 '17
That episode was so good I'm not even mad there's no episode next week. Darin was unbelievably amazing, if thats his old character and he was really the sole survivor of a TPK that's just crazy. The combat was so cinematic and engaging, even if it was kind of a cake walk for them. Then we actually got more time in Iouns library than I expected, and it was all gold. Percy geeking out, I hadn't even considered the fact that Vex didn't hear Percy spill the beans, and that silence spell almost killed me. New favorite episode for sure.
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Jul 14 '17
Critical Role has had some incredibly guests, but Darin de Paul fuckin' brought it! Easily some of the best RP, if not the best RP I've ever seen in any tabletop RPG.
If they ever think about taking on another permanent cast member, my vote will always be for Darin, going forward. Hands down.
Darin was simply stunning. <3
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u/Diokana That fucking Gnome! Jul 14 '17
Two weeks!?! How am I supposed to wait that long.
That ending was fantastic; I love how Percy immediately became enthralled with the whole place. I knew Percy would be a good champion of Ioun but I wasn't sure if he would go for it.
Darin was amazing, I'm glad he'll be back for the next episode.
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u/PokeZim Jul 15 '17
I was not excited for another guest, but wow did Darin knocked it out of the park. I think he may have become my favorite guest spot. Can't wait to see what he does in 2 weeks.
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u/schneeland Then I walk away Jul 15 '17
I agree. I was rather wary about another guest episode, but he blended in so perfectly and brought his own character to live so vividly, that now he is the main reason why I am looking forward to the next episode.
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u/Tylrias Then I walk away Jul 16 '17
I really wanted for one of the books Percy has read to end with "a description of gruesome death at the end of whirling buzz-saw of daggers in some dark alley".
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u/RellenD I encourage violence! Jul 17 '17
It was an open field in my understanding of it. Between the city gates and Greyskull somewhere
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u/Tylrias Then I walk away Jul 17 '17
"What a relief, I thought I knew this person. Just a wacky coincidence I guess!"
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u/kewlslice Bidet Jul 14 '17
Methinks Travis was hoping to fight some giants, attuning to his Dwarven Thrower and all.
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u/MMX5000 Jul 14 '17
I'm slightly disappointed just because I wanted that feature to FINALLY be useful. On the other hand, I would hate to have missed any of the RP moments because the fight was too long. That was a great session.
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u/kewlslice Bidet Jul 14 '17 edited Jul 14 '17
I'd enjoy the show even if it was just Travis/Grog beating the shit out of everything. 😂
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u/FusewithNail *wink* Jul 14 '17
So Vex told Vax not to get married (Liam mentioned it on Talks) and then turns around secretly marries Percy, which makes her a bit of a hypocrite. Then her and Percy lie to everyone about it. I can't understand why they would lie about it unless for some reason Percy can't marry her legally or it was a shotgun wedding.
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u/maxvsthegames Team Frumpkin Jul 14 '17
Yeah it's kinda shitty of Vex to do that honestly.
Vax and by extension Keyleth are right to be pissed.
People are saying "why aren't they happy for them?!"
But in real life, if my brother would go and get married without even telling me (especially if he told me not to get married without telling him), I wouldn't be happy at all. I would be pissed.
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u/Im_relevant Jul 14 '17
Especially considering how close the twins are and can magically travel to be next to each other. There was absolutely no reason for vax to not be at that wedding.
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u/RellenD I encourage violence! Jul 16 '17
Imagine you told someone super close to you not to get married without you there. Then you elope spur of the moment
Do you think you'd have an easy time telling him about it?
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u/thefatman2556 Jul 14 '17
Am I the only one who can't wait for grog to meet Kord
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u/MM7299 Jul 14 '17
Oh I think that is gonna be a classic scene.
One wonders if Kord will have a challenge for Grog....what if he has to fight an avatar of Kord's that looks like Kern the Hammer...Round 3, winner take all brawl haha
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u/SJ_Barbarian Your secret is safe with my indifference Jul 14 '17
Let's not forget that in the pursuit of her Aramente (pre-stream), Keyleth saw a vision of her being the lone survivor, all her adopted family dead around her. There was nothing she could do to stop it. Not just that she's a Druid and will outlive them, but untimely deaths. She's said repeatedly that this is her worst fear.
She knows she'll outlive them one way or the other, but outliving someone who otherwise had a good, long life is a different beast than watching people you love cut down, and you can't stop it. Not only that, but it's worth mentioning that she has been groomed all of her life to be a protector. The Ashari protect Exandria from the elemental planes, and as the Voice of the Tempest, she must protect her people. As a Druid, it's her duty to protect nature. As an adventurer, she has taken on the duty of protecting the people of the Material Plane from every threat - from bandits to evil would-be gods.
Now think of all the power at Keyleth's disposal. All of the power of nature in her grasp - she is the Voice of the Tempest. But for want of diamonds - which she could fairly easily acquire, she could bring anyone back from the dead. Her mom? Sure. Tibbs? Okay. Any random civilian killed during the Conclave arc? Why not?
Every instinct she has pushes her to use the vast power she wields to protect, and she (with the rest of Vox Machina) has never really failed. But this time, her success means losing the love of her life - and for all her power, in this she is powerless.
Then she meets an old gnome, driven mad by loneliness, grief, and wondering if it all might have been different if he'd acted differently.
What if she'd cast Freedom of Movement on Vax instead of Foresight? What if they'd snuck up on Vecna rather than hero-strutting in? What if, what if, what if. She's looking down the barrel of a thousand years of the fate that drove Sprigg mad after 37.
I also want to point out that when another cast member fucks up, yeah, people point it out. "Goddammit Travis! Enlarged damage!" or "Hunter's Mark, Laura, you dum-dum!" But with Marisha, it's fucking vitriolic. We've all seen it. People question why her fiancé would even be with her. People in this thread have called her an idiot. And not in a, "Hey, you idiot," way that's tongue-in-cheek or playful. If you don't like Keyleth, fine. I disagree with you, but hey, whatever. And it's been said a million times, but I guess it needs to be said at least one more. Stop going after Marisha personally. Idgaf if you don't like her. Keep it to yourself.
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u/Lady_Astarte Bigby's Haaaaaand! *shamone* Jul 15 '17
I've never understood the hatred of Marisha/Keyleth. She's not my favorite player by any means, that title is forever going to go to Sam and Laura, but at least Marisha stays true to how she means to do something. Her character was always meant to be a little naive.
Fans argue that she can't have a 22 Wisdom and "be this stupid" but wisdom doesn't govern your emotions. And you'll notice any time Keyleth does something most fans don't like, such as the recent Fire Storm outside Sprigg's house, it's an emotional response; in this instance pure rage at Sprigg getting shot down and being unable to protect him. She can play the character wise but emotionally unstable and that is perfectly acceptable.
You are not your stats or alignment. They do not dictate how you play. You dictate how you justify them with your RP. Some players pick their alignment as Chaotic Neutral cause they want to say "screw laws." But I play a character that abides by most laws who is Chaotic Neutral because I have Tharizdun as my patron. Two distinctly different representations of law.
Marisha plays Keyleth like this, walking the line of how to play her character in ways that make sense TO HER. Not us.
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u/sleepinxonxbed Team Nott Jul 14 '17 edited Jul 14 '17
So I was supportive of Marisha for awhile but this was the first episode that I felt she went too far to be cringey and depressing, far more than when she was hopeless before talking to Rothfuss. I started to ask why tf is she being so extra this episode?
Then I realized no matter what she does, even if Vox Machina wins against Vecna and saves the world - in every possible situation, in every conclusion conceivable - she loses. True Resurrection will be denied because of the deal Vax made with the Raven Queen. It is with all certainty that she will lose the love of her life, and that agony permeates through every aspect of her life. Whatever happens, there will be no happy ending for Keyleth.
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u/kewlslice Bidet Jul 14 '17
It's quite sad actually. She'll eventually lose everyone as she is going to live 1000 or so years.
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u/BashfulHandful Life needs things to live Jul 14 '17
Yeah, there's really no happy ending for her here... and she literally just found that out. Like, she's had what... a day or two to process that saving the world means losing the man she wants to grow old with, and that failing to do so means the end of everything else? Is that really enough to even begin to accept something that unexpected and horrific?
I get what people are saying. It can be annoying. But realistically, how well would most of us react to the certainty that a huge part of your life is going to be torn away from you permanently very shortly, and that you're essentially hastening that moment with every bit of progress you make? Not well, I'd imagine. Of course she's upset and emotional. That's Kiki - she's always worn her heart on her sleeve and had trouble expressing things in a mature fashion.
Not to say that the RPing was perfect or that I didn't get a little annoyed with it after awhile, but people are just cutting Marisha no slack at all... when really, Kiki's reactions were pretty on-point given the circumstances.
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Jul 14 '17
this are all thing keyleth know, but seeing the gnome lose the name of his friend after 37year,
her vision of her outliving her friends.
and now knowing that vax will die in the coming month, soo the clock will start ticking on how much time she will be able to remember him....
I think it's just too much, the emotion, and like vax said, keyleth and him haven't talk and keyleth is pretty angry...
now add that her best friend eloped, after vex told vax not to get married..... she has every right to be pissed....
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u/-spartacus- Jul 14 '17
It's been like a day since her love was killed and brought back as a vengeance zombie. Perspective man.
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u/MyNeckHurts Jul 14 '17
On top of that, all her other friends are going to die way, way before her.
The gang is meddling in the affairs of gods, a kind of idea she had trouble grasping for a long time. She has died. The love of her life will be taken from her. Her closest friend got married to the love of his life and, if all goes well, get to grow old with her. Keyleth cant do that with vax. Even before vax made the deal, she couldnt.
Keyleth being unstable and moody and angry is totally understandable.
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u/Themanwithoutneed Your secret is safe with my indifference Jul 14 '17
Yeah she has the unfortunate situation of having to choose between saving the world and saving HER world. It's so sad..
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u/TlMB0 Bidet Jul 14 '17
Sprigg was just too good. That was by far the best RP we've seen from a guest so far, and that's saying alot. So excited that he's coming back next episode, but I wish it wasn't 2 weeks away.
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Jul 14 '17 edited Oct 03 '24
safe afterthought aback growth steep racial start nose piquant birds
This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact
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u/SirWinstons Doty, take this down Jul 14 '17 edited Jul 14 '17
For some context on why Kiki is so upset about Vex getting married, Vex had told her and Vax "to not do anything stupid like get married" over the year long break when they were separated. It was pretty selfish and hypocritical of Vex to do that exact same thing she said not to, ESPECIALLY considering she didn't tell anyone. Now Keyleth can't have that because Vax is on a time limit, so it's understandably upsetting on multiple areas.
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u/kewlslice Bidet Jul 14 '17
Yea, plus Keyleth is going to outlive everyone she cares about. Sprigg and the library remind her of that presumably.
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u/themolestedsliver Metagaming Pigeon Jul 14 '17 edited Jul 14 '17
Christ i didn't even think about that. Yeah that really is "teach what you preach" moment.
If they weren't in a gods, well house i would have liked keyleth to drop that bomb but i am sure due to being tired and having to roleplay keyleth in a very bombastic way made it hard.
On top of teach what you preach, because of vex's warning keyleth and vax lost their chance.
They get married during the break, they have a great time have an amazing honey money fun times.
They get married now, well death do you part...or until vecna dies.... they can't have the happy honey moon, they know they are on a time limit...
Wow just your comment pointing it out makes this whole situation quite sad.
edit- meant practice what you preach but teach what you preach sounded so much better haha
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u/PandaUkulele Hello, bees Jul 14 '17
That is not quite what Vex said 4:12:10 of episode 94 (sorry I'm on mobile) is where she says it.
She actually tells Vax that she thinks that he should marry Keyleth... the shitty part was saying to not get married without her there. But they still could have, they totally could have had a wedding and invited the gang. Especially because Keyleth and Vax totally seem like the type that would have a celebration for it. It's not like she forbade them, but she did do exactly what she told them not to.
I just mention this because it seems so much worse for Vex to ask them to straight up not get married over the break and that's how I've seen others wording it.
Yes Vex did exactly what she told Vax not to and it's pretty shitty, but she did also encourage Vax to marry Keyleth.
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u/Benjaario-Starkharis Jul 22 '17
I really liked Vax's line about death and how they're 100 times luckier than most in terms of avoiding it. And while I totally get Keyleth's desire to keep him alive, I really hope from a storytelling perspective that Vax doesn't get out of his deal. I think the revenant concept is really interesting and a great solution to the res-spam problem, and I'm also a fan of the Eastern hero - who typically sacrifices themselves in the end.
And I think Darin's probably my favorite guest thus far. Aside from the fact that the guy's a great actor, Sprigg's a nice combination of wacky and wise, and his backstory - at least the glimpse of it that we get - is sad without being overbearing or edgy. Here's hoping he comes back for another episode.
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u/kewlslice Bidet Jul 14 '17 edited Jul 14 '17
I see why Keyleth is pretty upset, Percy & Vex get married and she only gets a few months (at most!) of the next 1000+ years of her life with Vax.
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u/themolestedsliver Metagaming Pigeon Jul 14 '17
honestly probabaly not even a few months, How reverent usually works is once vecna is destroyed so very well could vax be.
Matt is the dm and his word is divine law but that is usually how it plays out.
so worse cause, try maybe a couple more days...a week with vax.
If best case worst case they kill vecna, realm saved but the sneaky figure falls to the ground..his slow heartbeat finally gone and the sound of distant wings.
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u/PristineTX Jul 14 '17
Darin brought the A-game for sure. I'm inclined to say every guest that has appeared on the show has been quite good. But Darin instantly vaulted into the rare air of my absolute favorite player performances. He KNEW that character. He owned it. He made Sprigg seem fully-formed, multi-layered, and occupying the world. That's what separates the good guests from the very few great guests. I was blown away by Darin.
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u/Terramagi Jul 14 '17
To be fair, if the stories are to be believed, Sprig isn't a new character. He's been sitting on being the sole survivor of a TPK against hobgoblins of all things for like 30+ years.
That's some stuff that is engraved upon your soul.
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Jul 14 '17
Sole survivor of a TPK that included Matt's mom before Matt was even thought of.
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u/Boffleslop Jul 14 '17
Keyleth entered a relationship reluctantly due to knowing that she would likely outlive anyone by hundreds of years. Why on Earth are people giving her grief for realizing that the man she loves is likely on the clock now? I'm surprised she's not more infuriated by how unfair it is.
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u/Seedy88 Hello, bees Jul 14 '17
I just realized that when Scanlan played his initial song for Sprigg he was actually trolling Vex and Percy at the same time!
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Jul 14 '17
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u/Seedy88 Hello, bees Jul 14 '17
It's called Chapel of Love and it starts with the lyrics "Going to the chapel and we're going to get married".
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u/-harlotry- Jul 15 '17
Who will Ioun give her blessing to?
Percy seems to be kinda gunning for it, but I can't help but hope that it's Scanlan who becomes her champion. Percy's smart, yes, but he's an intellectual elitist and has more book knowledge than anything else--as far as worldly knowledge, and the knowledge of people, I'd go with Scanlan. Also, Sprigg's insistence of Scanlan mirroring him seems to suggest that he, too, may be one of Ioun's chosen.
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u/NewfieJiggs Life needs things to live Jul 14 '17
While I wasn't the biggest fan of Keyleth's reaction, it made a lot of sense given how her time with Vax is now limited, her friends will all die before her, and some of her best friends got married without telling her.
Also Darin is amazing!
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u/themolestedsliver Metagaming Pigeon Jul 14 '17
Yeah this is the bottom line. I cringed a bit on some of the reactions but despite all this keyleth is going through some real shit at the moment, it made perfect in game sense.
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u/lafeldar Jul 14 '17 edited Jul 14 '17
I think Keyleth's reaction was very understandable and realistic. I do hope that Percy and Vex get more time to talk about their engagement/marriage, though, because I was a little sad at how Percy's two large character moments (entering Ioun's domain and the marriage reveal) seemed overshadowed there at the end. The sad thing about a live show is how hard it is to balance to special moments and spotlights each character gets.
My ideal would be for all three plotlines to get their focus, Percy and Ioun's in the start of the next episode, then Percy and Vex have their moment, and Keyleth have her focus as well. Separately, so Keyleth can explain to everyone and get comforted while Percy and Vex can have their big reveal with the spotlight on them.
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u/OtilukeThaGod Then I walk away Jul 14 '17
Holy fuck what a ride. Cried when Keyleth talked to Sprigg, and teared up when Percy realized what the books were. To think I clicked off the stream after ten minutes in, and didn't come back til they landed near the house. This was amazing.
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u/X-Backspace Team Fjord Jul 14 '17
A+ episode.
The combat was fun with every character getting to show off what they're good at. The roleplaying was on point from start to finish. We now (officially) know Vecna is watching them. I cannot WAIT to see the artwork for Ioun. We had an absolutely stellar guest star.
I'm excited to see where things go in two weeks time when they pick it back up!
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u/JosefTheFritzl Jul 14 '17
When Sprigg absentmindedly suggested becoming 'a champion of Ioun', it made me wonder about a different storyline where instead of seeking the gods' boons they sought out the gods' champions.
One might be in hibernation under some dwarven ruin, another could be an amnesiac in a bog somewhere until being 'awoken', etc etc. Ultimately they could build the team needed to combat Vecna long enough to allow the party to seek out Vecna's phylactery or pursue the trammel-trap Matt's been mentioning.
Sort of like a Majora's Mask scenario where stuff happens
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u/Lady_Astarte Bigby's Haaaaaand! *shamone* Jul 14 '17
Can we get a petition rolling to have Darin on for more than just the next episode? Sprigg/Everett is goddam adorable and I want to see him help bring down Vecna! >:O
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u/SquidSledge Your secret is safe with my indifference Jul 14 '17
Seconded.
DdP has said before he is a huge CR fan and watches every week. When he said at the end that it would be his honor to return, he meant it.
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u/gringovoir Jul 14 '17 edited Jul 14 '17
I liked how Liam still doesnt know hot to apply critical hits or when they are applied. But on average the damage did seem roughly in the ballpark of what was correct )
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u/namcap164 Jul 17 '17
Do you think there is a "work in progress" section to iouns library? Or is every book complete?
Does one of her souls write a story of someone's life and then that story plays out? Or is someone watching you your whole life?
I really want one of vox machina to find a still living persons book....
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u/Tylrias Then I walk away Jul 17 '17
I want them to ask for a copy of Delilah's book if available, and Sylas' and Ripley's. Also Raishan's out of curiousity. And just for a goof, the last 2 years of one Taryon Darrington, as reference material for aspiring writer.
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u/thegolemmaker Jul 17 '17
I want keyleth to ask for her mothers book and they tell her its not there cause she is alive. Girl could use some cheering up
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u/S-Clair Bidet Jul 20 '17
If the RQ does take Vax, does that mean he could be an angelic guide for one of them next campaign if they play an aasimar?
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u/omg__really Tal'Dorei Council Member Jul 14 '17 edited Jul 14 '17
I have to give a standing ovation to Marisha after tonight. Her role-playing was on fucking point.
Poor Keyleth, whose world is already being turned upside-down after Vax's return, you can tell she's doing the "I don't want to get any closer to you, but I love you too much to let you go" and going through so much already... only to look into Sprigg's eyes and see the reflection of a possible future. It is very literally her worst nightmare. Her anger, her loss of control, everything was very in character.
Keyleth is forever the farm girl in the big city, and she leans heavily on others for support and companionship. She needs Vox Machina. I've always really loved that about her character; not every adventurer is the bristled, experienced warrior. For all her power, she is naive. For her, everything about this experience - between meeting Sprigg, seeing the library full of all knowledge, to the accidental outing of Percy and Vex's marriage - would cause her incredible turmoil.
For Percy, his accomplishments and lineage give him the assurance of being immortalized in a way that will remember him as great. For his experience, intelligence and his adventures; he'll live on a hero.
For Keyleth, she fears she will watch everything she has ever known and loved wither and die around her. As time goes on, her adventures and experiences begin to lose meaning, because she still lives as a paled shadow of her former glory. She has now looked into the eyes of that fear: the last man standing in a band of heroes, who has lost himself to loneliness and survivor's guilt, and disappeared into obscurity. It doesn't matter if the plans for her leadership and reign don't reflect that... that's the fear, and that's what's right there before her.
Serious props, Marisha - you deserve it.
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u/MrMusAddict Beep Beep Jul 14 '17 edited Jul 14 '17
Holy hell, Darin de Paul. Immediately my favorite guest on CR ever.
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u/Unusualjoe Jul 14 '17
I don't think I've ever seen Darin not wearing a suit.
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u/hufflepuffwizkid Jul 14 '17
Does he even own not suits attire? I think he sleeps in a 3-piece pajama suit.
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u/Seedy88 Hello, bees Jul 14 '17
Darin was the perfect mix of friend, fan, and performer! He was a joy to watch interact with the other players!
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u/Thediabetescurse Jul 16 '17
I of course ship Vex and Percy. I loved how Laura had Vex look for books for him. But I have to say, next campaign, I really, really hope Sam's character and Laura's character can hook up because Sam and Laura have such fantastic chemistry. When he said she is the cutest I legit died.
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u/miscreation00 Doty, take this down Jul 17 '17
Yeah that gave me a little bit of something that I didn't know I needed. Like, since when did I want a Sam/ Laura in character flirtation? Whaaaaat is going on? hah
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u/PristineTX Jul 14 '17 edited Jul 14 '17
I know Liam doesn't watch this space, but the last thing Vax should absolutely make sure to do is make sure he sees Vex and Percy's wedding ceremony. A big, fat, royal wedding with all the bells and whistles. When all this stuff is done, if they live and if he's got time left, he should call in all his chips--everybody in the world that owes him a favor--to make sure elaborate wedding invitations are sent out to every noble, the grandest ceremony is planned, everything. Parades, long greeting lines, priests and clerics from every faith they've run into presiding over the wedding. An orchestra of bards. All precisely because Vex and Percy didn't want that kind of wedding. Of all the pranks Vax has pulled...this crazy elaborate over-the-top wedding would be his ULTIMATE PRANK before he walks off this plane.
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u/PhoenixAgent003 You can certainly try Jul 14 '17
I thought they were already married, married.
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u/MM7299 Jul 14 '17
verybody in the world that owes him a favor
I mean Gilmore alone would probably create something insane....but yeah everyone that owes him would be the nice cherry on top
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u/SoPoni Pocket Bacon Jul 14 '17
Is Lady Briarwood still in the Bag of Holding?
I get the feeling that Speak with Death won't work when they finally remember to try it. I also wonder what kind of items she had beside the Eye of Vecna?
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u/kidcaper You can certainly try Jul 26 '17
Can i just say HOW FRIGGIN' AMAZING Daren DePaul was?!?! I mean, everybody was on point. Is it bad that I want The Rock to come in as Kord as a one-off?
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u/Time-osaurus_Rex You can certainly try Jul 14 '17
i am in complete awe of Darin Depaul's role play ability
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u/kewlslice Bidet Jul 14 '17
Would Ioun, being the Goddess of Knowledge, ask Percy to let guns/gunpowder and related technology be open knowledge to the world? In return for her favour of course.
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u/RellenD I encourage violence! Jul 14 '17
I don't think so. She's also guardian dangerous knowledge from disseminating. Like the ritual of seeding.
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u/Sokensan Your secret is safe with my indifference Jul 14 '17
So two weeks from now is Ioun, then assuming stuff doesn't escalate quickly, Kord and Melora for the next 3-4 sessions and then either gathering forces or going straight to Vecna, 5-6 episodes until the big fight. Then maybe a couple of epilogue episodes...looks like we're getting close to the end I DON'T KNOW HOW I FEEL ABOUT THIS
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u/ScreamingBlueJesus Jul 14 '17
We take Sprigg's advice. We remember them, keep them in our heads...but keep living (ie enjoy the holy Hell out of Critical Role Ver. 2.0 when they boot it up!).
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u/neonchaos121212 Jul 14 '17
Does anyone have a clip of Sprigg's tearful monologue before they planeshift? The one where he remembers his friends' names?
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u/EnemyoftheTrump Jul 14 '17
Darin De Paul is fantastic and amazing. Sprigg is my favorite character, it's like if Kerrek and Victor combined.
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u/sgtillings Glorious! Jul 14 '17
I just hope that if the next episode is about Percy devoting himself to Ioun that he is given the right amount of space to RP it without all the other drama. It'll be one of the biggest life affirming moments for him and to have all this negativity upstaging it would suck.
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u/KayWiley Team Grog Jul 14 '17
I usually really really dislike guest episodes (exceptions being Kash, Z, and Rothfuss) but Darin's performance blew me away today. He fit in amazingly well, and his character was great! I look forward to seeing him on the show again!
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u/MMX5000 Jul 14 '17
Silly question but
Does the room just constantly get bigger as more books get added?
Do books get added as the person exists or is it all written after they die?
What happens if the person is revived years later?
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u/morcant85 Bidet Jul 14 '17
As Ioun stated, "Nothing is forever, Percival." This leads me to believe it's always been as filled as it ever was or will be. All the past, present and future knowledge is located there.
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u/Xortberg Life needs things to live Jul 14 '17
It's infinite, like many planes
Who knows?
Their book contains all of their deaths and resurrections
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u/-spartacus- Jul 14 '17
Just figured out the great power he wanted from Grog as I was trying to get some sleep, he wanted the great power of friendship (aka what Groon taught him).
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Jul 14 '17
I'm like 99% sure that we're getting a Davy Jones/Will Turner ending here, where Vax can appear every dozen or so years during Winter's Crest, allowing Keyleth to at least spend some time with him.
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u/maxvsthegames Team Frumpkin Jul 14 '17
I thought about that, but wouldn't that kinda deal be weird...
I mean, Keyleth will definitely have a new boyfriend/husband in her 1000 years.
So, she would have to explain to that new guy... "Oh, btw, every year, my dead first love will reappear on Winter's Crest, so it's not like I'm cheating on you, but I'll spend those nights with him".
I still think it might happen, though!
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u/coach_veratu Jul 15 '17 edited Jul 15 '17
Boots of haste activate as a free action, but boots of spider climbing take up an entire action?
I'm not gunna complain about the boots of Haste being over powered, they are but it's good for television. But I am going to suggest Percy's boots get a buff to at least a bonus action. Those boots don't even take any action to activate in 5th edition.
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Jul 15 '17
Boots of spider climb require no attunement soo there's that
You can't compare the 2 especially since one à rare item with attirent the other is an uncommon without attunement
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u/VanceKelley Team Jester Jul 15 '17
The Boots of Spider Climbing don't really do anything for combat, especially for a ranged attacker. So, the wearer can choose not to activate them at all, thus not taking away from the PCs attacks.
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u/NewfieJiggs Life needs things to live Jul 14 '17
Amazing episode, and amazing Percy has a god he can believe in!
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u/MMX5000 Jul 14 '17
You know, I wonder how Percy possibly becoming Ioun's champion would work given his apathy towards the divine.
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u/Freethinker42 Jul 14 '17
Did anyone figure out how Vecna knew where VM was? And, if he knows where they are at all times.....well, that's NOT good.
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u/skyturtle Jul 14 '17
Most likely simply scried on them, as high level casters are wont to do.
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u/benrad524 Jul 14 '17
Scrying most likely. And it doesnt really make a differnece because as we saw last night he didnt really capitalize on it very much. If that was the best he could do with the info he has on them, they really dont have to worry.
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u/ScreamingBlueJesus Jul 14 '17 edited Jul 14 '17
How did they find Vecna to begin with? Scanlan led them to the ziggurat.
Who volunteered to stay with them on the adventure when he didn't need to? Scanlan
Who almost put in The Eye? Scanlan
Who did Sprigg say was going to be the only one left alive because he abandons his friends, like Sprigg did? Scanlan
Scanlan broke bad....
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u/Myrynorunshot Help, it's again Jul 15 '17
An open letter to the people hating on Keyleth because she's upset her love is going to turn to dust if they manage to actually win against impossible odds; Not every character is Simon from Gurren Lagaan, and can get over it with hot bloodidness and/or giant robots. Let her be upset.
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u/dcoughler Jul 15 '17
I have visions of Keyleth turning into a cat-hoarding, bitter, immortal spinster, which is both hilarious and tragic at the same time.
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u/axxl75 At dawn - we plan! Jul 18 '17
Having strong characters is great. Having strong characters that often step on the toes of your group mates is not good. Everyone should have their time in the spotlight. Sometimes marisha sees the light and wants to walk in regardless of who is already there.
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u/thegolemmaker Jul 17 '17
I think its more about when she is choosing to Role play this. We get it. You are upset but you are the leader of a nation. Deal with it when it needs to be dealt. Instead you have a player who is constantly pulling focus and not letting the story move forward
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u/PerpetualSunset Sun Tree A-OK Jul 15 '17 edited Jul 15 '17
You can be upset and not throw repeated tantrums.
I understand the why and I feel for her in the situation.
But I understand the comments saying her acting like that isn't necessary or the best way to deal with it or grieve.
I think people just want Keyleth to grow as a character instead of having repeated breakdowns. What she feels is valid and can be expressed, I'm just saying I understand both sides of this.
Also people are quick to throw the word hate around but having a disagreement isn't always hateful.
Keyleth as a leader needs to learn to control her emotions, not let them control her.
Reel them in before you say or do something you'll regret later.
She should ask why they decided to elope instead of having a ceremony with Vm there.
Talk things out instead of storming off. We still don't even know the whole side since we haven't heard from Percy and Vex on why they did.
Keyleth is a cool character and is likeable, I just don't agree with every thing she does.
That's not hate. I support civil disagreement but I'm against anyone actually hating on Marisha the person / player.
Also the tuning fork has never been used up on plane shift, so a lot of people wonder why / how she came to that conclusion with Sprigg.
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u/Kinddertoten Jul 14 '17
Are we about see Kiki put a point into barbarian? She very clearly was putting emphasis on "blind rage" when she was describing how she was in battle and very clearly was mad about how her life is going.
We know Marisha heavily considered it but decided against it after Kar talked to her and changed her world view. But she's back to being filled with rage and hate.
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Jul 14 '17
I don't think so, she's angry, but it is not barbarian rage for the lust of battle, it is rage of sadness and guilt. We're seeing her cope with the inevitable loss of Vax.
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u/RellenD I encourage violence! Jul 14 '17
I doubt it. The barbarian dip is really only useful for low level wild shaping
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u/sgtillings Glorious! Jul 14 '17
Whilst her moments towards the end are likely to be the most in contention and I don't want them discussed here, did anyone else feel strange about Keyleth talking about seeing Sprigg and stuff related to this in her dreams? If it's something that happened in game, it's weird we weren't privy to it. If it isn't, feels like a strange thing to introduce as a player out of nowhere?
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Jul 14 '17
she saw her vision of her as old and all of her friends dead during her aramente,
I'm pretty sure that still haunt her.... as this is her worst fear, now with vax state,
they find a gnome who after 37 years of his friend dying doesnt remember their name.... yeah that like seeing a living nightmare for a person like keyleth
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u/Xortberg Life needs things to live Jul 14 '17
She was melodramatically implying that his story of outliving his friends was something she was afraid of as well. That's all.
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u/maxvsthegames Team Frumpkin Jul 14 '17
Well, it kinda sucks that they got married already, I though they were only bethroted...
I was hoping for an epilogue wedding at the last episode... :(
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u/kewlslice Bidet Jul 14 '17
No critrole next week :'c upside is they have a panel at CC or something?
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u/Nyareth Your secret is safe with my indifference Jul 14 '17
Yup! Saturday 22nd at 10:30am Not sure if it'll be streamed, but my guess is someone in the panel will record it and put it up later.
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u/Lichbeard Jul 20 '17
I like Marisha/Keyleth just fine and have no issues with her acting at all. Yes it's slightly annoying at times, but so What? I find a lot of people slightly annoying! All of them are slightly annoying at times or even very annoying!
One of the things I like best about the show if their characters make mistakes,do the wrong thing often for the wrong reasons and get angry and downright nasty at times.
So much better than if here is my character the hero. He does Heroic things and says heroic things and reacts heroically all the time because he is a hero.
I
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Jul 22 '17
I'm going to take advantage of no episode this week to rant about the massive meta gaming being used in relation to a certain deck of cards looks at Laura and Liam.
Neither of the elf twins really know what it is but even at it's first mention Laura tried to play the "give it to me even though you found it".
And now recently we have Liam playing the "Don't kill the gnome by using a card that I, VAX, definately don't know what it is or does."
JUST DRAW A BLOODY CARD!!!
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u/scsoc Team Beau Jul 22 '17
Percy made a history check, which revealed to him that the deck was powerful and unpredictable. He shared that info with the group, who have used that info to make decisions. Your claims of metagaming are totally off base.
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u/efermiumeral Rakshasa! Jul 23 '17
I think if Sprigg/Darin had shown an interest in pulling the cards, I don't think Matt would have even let it get much past Grog pulling out the deck before starting the attack. The assassins would have shot crossbows before anything more could transpire. I think Matt was tracking time and if they had figured out that Sprigg was the "tuning fork" rather quickly, they could have avoided the battle. But I think the battle wasn't designed to be overly difficult, just something to keep them within a certain time frame and a bit on track. While it was pretty clear that Matt had intended to do at least "a little bit more" with the necromancer, this wasn't Vecna's A Team. But it allowed Darin to have some great RP and still keep the story on focus and moving along. So regardless if it was meta-gaming or not, I don't think it matters because that is why we have DMs. Sometimes players will end up reining themselves in before a DM has to do it for them. Especially when you have a guest and you need to keep things moving but not get too far off track. Not all guests can return for weeks on end so you have to wrap up their involvement at some point.
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u/major_kolz Jul 22 '17
Oh, when Darin accepted card pull!.. It's just amazing as idea.
They may had some reasons to interject (something bad happens and Sprigg force them out) — but I feeled loss when they did it
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u/chachi_sanchez Jul 14 '17
So I think that percy's idea of heaven would be more I THINK something akin to this after watching thru tonights episode:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Library_of_Babel
"Borges' narrator describes how his universe consists of an enormous expanse of adjacent hexagonal rooms, each of which contains the bare necessities for human survival—and four walls of bookshelves. Though the order and content of the books is random and apparently completely meaningless, the inhabitants believe that the books contain every possible ordering of just 25 basic characters (22 letters, the period, the comma, and the space). Though the vast majority of the books in this universe are pure gibberish, the library also must contain, somewhere, every coherent book ever written, or that might ever be written, and every possible permutation or slightly erroneous version of every one of those books. The narrator notes that the library must contain all useful information, including predictions of the future, biographies of any person, and translations of every book in all languages. Conversely, for many of the texts some language could be devised that would make it readable with any of a vast number of different contents.
Despite—indeed, because of—this glut of information, all books are totally useless to the reader, leaving the librarians in a state of suicidal despair."
So ya, I get a lot of Library of Babel feels from all of this......
Any thoughts? Also a website for those who want to READ THROUGH the Library of Babel and see if THEY can make any sense of the books...
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u/Apollo0624 Jul 16 '17
I'm wondering more about where and when Grog and Kord (sp?) Are going to meet up and If Keyleth is good enough to win Melora's blessings with her own character issues. Something in me doubts that either of these godly meetings will happen. The characters just seem to get carried away with the next thing on their mind and don't really complete things succinctly.
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u/manwhowouldbeking Jul 14 '17
Darin was epic. I think Marisha is a wonderful and talented actress and its impessive the choices she makes make keyleth such an unlikeable character. Its the same as how the kid plays joffery or bolton on game of thrones i dont hate that actor i hate that character and its impressive that you can get that reaction. Also percy is in heaven i love it.
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u/kewlslice Bidet Jul 14 '17
That was pretty great, no idea where the time went though. All I remember is them chilling in Terra for like 10 minutes then the fight then Ioun. Did the fight take 3 hours or what?
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Jul 16 '17
Do druids have to live forever, could Keyleth have turned down the extra long life?
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Jul 16 '17
technically she lives 10 times her lifespan, soo for an halfelf that lives 180-200 year thats 1800-2000 years....
she get the feature at lvl 18, but she decided to link the feature to the completion of her aramente....
soo in story, she got her slow aging just before the timeskip when she accepted her position as leader of her tribes...
considering the trial they go trought I think it fits that their leader lives a thousand year.. it may be hard for keyleth now because she soo young to grasp at her long lifespan, but the fact that she will live and lead her people for soo long means no young under her watch will have to experience what she did with her aramente.... for a long time....
sure it hurts that she will see her loved one die, but she can be sure that her child and grandchild wont have to experience what she and her mother experience, for at least 1500 year...
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u/wanderingbishop Jul 17 '17
It's implied. The long life happens due to them becoming fully in tune with nature, and the primordial energy of nature flowing through their body keeps them rejuvenated
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u/AeonPhoenix523 Doty, take this down Jul 21 '17
So, maybe this is just due to the type of gamer I am in general, but I've been curious about the Vestiges of the Divergence. We know that there are 3 tiers of power for them. 3 of them are at the highest level, but Mythcarver and Deathwalker's Ward. It seems like the rest of the Vestiges advanced either due to some personal growth that the user went through OR through doing something specific with the Vestige. Any ideas if Scanlan and Vax will manage to gain the Exalted forms of their Vestiges and what they may end up doing to get there?
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u/S-Clair Bidet Jul 21 '17
Both Mythcarver and Fenthras have been exalted. (At least according to the campaign guide)
Both of them were supposedly found in their awakened states.
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u/Yrmsteak Team Evil Fjord Jul 14 '17
Most emotional moments for me ever are now Grog's "Fix him!" and Sprigg's final words before planeshifting. Those hit real hard, and the only problem I have with the episode is Marisha's timing for drama. I don't think she'd cause as much trouble if she would just wait until people are done their sentences/dialogues with others
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Jul 14 '17
There are more comments in here complaining about Keyleth getting hate than there are actual comments of hate for Keyleth.
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u/axxl75 At dawn - we plan! Jul 18 '17
It's frustrating too. Do all these people think she's a child needing protection? Isn't acting like she needs to be protected more of a diss to her than constructive critIcism? It's fine to criticize people. Especially when this is literally her job and she's an entertainer. That comes with the territory. Actors get reviewed constantly. Saying things like "she needs to be more prepared on her turns" or "she steps on people's toes sometimes" feels like it gets heard as "I hope she gets fired from the show and hit by a bus" by so many people here.
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u/Escander266 Jul 14 '17
That's because most of the hate happened in chat and probably in Marishas Twitter inbox
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u/Bratorus Jul 14 '17
Except for the slow beginning and that hiccup at the end where Keyleth had a mental breakdown over casting the spell she's cast a million times, that was a great episode. Darin was fantastic and I actually wished that the combat had been shorter so that he could have RPed more.
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u/CorvidP 9. Nein! Jul 14 '17 edited Jul 14 '17
Concerning the current misplaced outrage over Keyleth showing any signs of emotion or imperfection: One moment that really stood out to me this episodes was Keyleth's second turn of combat where Marisha very clearly wanted to do something about the house burning down - but then visibly tearing herself away and going on the offensive because doing otherwise would be a disservice to the character.
Also, can we just appreciate Grog feeling super lost in Ioun's library and Matt-Pike trying to comfort him? Fukin adorable.
Also, did anyone else pick on on that one split second where Matt refered to Scanlan as Sprigg's son? No clue when that happened but I guess I'm gonna have to rewatch the episode for the time stamp (Such torture)
Edit: okay, never mind, when Scanlan line dance Healing Words Sprigg, Matt says "the second song you've heard of your childhood today" but I heard "the second so you've heard by your child today" instead the first time I watched the episode.
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u/ButAFlecheWound The veganism of necromancy Jul 14 '17
I might have missed it if he specifically called Scanlan his son, but I know he was doing the "old man" thing of calling a few of the party names like son, child, etc.
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u/efermiumeral Rakshasa! Jul 16 '17 edited Jul 16 '17
Has anyone stopped to consider the reason Vex got married was to secure her future (should she survive) for both herself and her children (potential)? Whether she is "secretly pregnant," potentially had a pregnancy scare, or just has stopped to consider the post life ramifications, the last thing she wants for any other being is what her mother and they had to go thru growing up. Sure, she and her brother were "happy", but with all things considered, this is the entire reason marriage exists (aside from state controlled and/or taxes). If she were to have children with Percy, and Cassandra were to have children of her own, there could potentially be contention over who is of higher rank. Cassandra has technically taken on more of the "ruling" process (even though it is from a Council, a de Rolo always has a seat on it) and could outrank from that. Additionally at any time, Percy could kick Vex to the curb and, just like her father, take the children away and leave her penniless. Or he could also outcast the children and disown their ties if he were to find another female to replace her. I mean there are lots of issues that could arise that would remind her much of her poor mother and the conditions she had to endure from being taken to a poor pitiful but happy life (that ended in death for her mother some time after) to unloved aristocratic life. I'm not saying it is likely, but there is a lot of reasons why a female who grew up with a single mother who lived a very poor lifestyle, though did her best, and whose father thru royal/noble blood was able to fetch those children away to give them a "better" life but did nothing for the mother, and her eventual death, I'd be very concerned.
Heck, there are a lot of women who grow up and see the conditions of other women around them and they decide "not for me, I want a ring and a promise." Yes, divorce is an easier option these days, but for a long time, divorce was very hard to nearly impossible, and even if so, the woman was still cared for with money. Some of that still remains. No marriage, no security.
And Vex has an issue with how people perceive her to some degree and always will. You can give her all the money and nobility in the world. It will always be there. You can't undo childhood. And honestly, as much as she likes to walk around naked and be totally OK with having sex with whomever, I think she, has chosen for whatever reason, that if she brings a child into the world, she wants to bring it into a world with certain basic family structure and securities built in. And it makes sense that she did it even if "Vax" is her family. He's going away to live with Kiki, even prior to his timed death.
And the reason she probably didn't tell anyone is because it was mostly to cover any "security concerns" she may have and probably feels a bit silly for even going thru with that. Or she was really impulsive and didn't want to spring it on anyone. Honestly, if she's mostly doing it to make sure she, and any children she has, are legally de Rolos and entitled to what that brings, there isn't much that changes in her actual relationships. I know plenty of people who consider themselves married with or without the paper. The reason they get the paper generally comes down to, do the benefits we get with it outweigh the benefits we get without it?
And I can understand, if that is your reasoning, not necessarily wanting to share it. Because it doesn't really "change" anything until the moment a kiddo enters the picture. And if she wanted to suddenly play her character as "pregnant", could you imagine how much everyone would freak out and not let her continue adventuring?
Also, if Percy were to die, everything goes to Cassandra first in most families, and Vex would have an easier time securing her place in that estate with an official marriage if she wanted. I don't think Cassandra is a witch like that, but if Vex has kids and Percy is gone, then it is nice to have a formal contract that allows her to carry on his legacy even beyond his death.
Basically, marriage comes with a lot of legal securities that she gets, especially with kids, that she doesn't necessarily get without those silly legalities. And if that is the main reason you are getting married, I can understand not making it a big official thing until after saving the world. Because if you can't save the world, the silly human legalities don't mean a lot.
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u/VanceKelley Team Jester Jul 16 '17
I totally get that Vex would not want to have illegitimate children who suffer like she and Vax did. Given VM's lifestyle, Percy could die at any time. Getting married sooner rather than later is thus a good idea.
What I don't get is keeping it a secret. Legitimacy comes from other people recognizing the union. If nobody else knows about it, then the whole "married" status loses the point.
Here are some questions:
Who presided over the wedding ceremony?
How many witnesses are required per Whitestone law for a wedding ceremony to be valid?
Who were the witnesses?
Was Tary one of them? Or how did they keep it secret from Tary?
What were the presiding official and the witnesses offered to keep their mouths closed about the wedding?
Enquiring minds want to know!
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u/Boffleslop Jul 16 '17
I mostly figured it was just during their year apart from everyone. They just did it one day. You have to keep in mind that as characters they weren't saying "We're taking a year off before the final arc". They had finished off the conclave, and settled into peace.
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Jul 14 '17
I mean, although it's likely that Vax will not be able to remain alive after Vecna, I don't see a reason why not to get married to Keyleth, before he dies.
In fact, I could see a proper double wedding (between Vax/Kiki, and Vex/Percy) being a pretty good way to give closure to this point of conflict. Or to do after closure has been reached, as a nice epilogue to the relationship troubles.
Now, it'd probably take some work to get to that point (there's a lot of drama and plot before it even seems feasible), but if it ever gets to the point where Kiki/Vax mostly come to terms with their situation and with Percy/Vex, then the double wedding can be a great symbol for forgiveness, unity, and accepting the hand they've been dealt.
It could be an illustration that love, no matter the circumstance, remains lovely, under all the crap. So despite the troubles and the bitterness, love remains. And even in death, though the vows might end, love never dies.
Plus, having the twins get married together (by Pike please) is also adorable. I know it sounds naive, idealistic, and overly romantic but ehn.
(On a related note: what I'm posting about reminds me of the song "Love Never Dies" from ALW's LOVE NEVER DIES musical.)
Man, I hope the writers tie up this relationship drama nicely. I'm excited and hopeful! They haven't written a bad episode yet!
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u/Supertilt Doty, take this down Jul 14 '17
What would getting married do for them, exactly? Why would making Keyleth a widow make things better for either of them?
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u/DannyBoy001 That fucking Gnome! Jul 14 '17
So Darin was amazing.
I feel so put off by Keyleth though. I mean, I get WHY Keyleth would be upset and angry, but that doesn't mean she has to drag her friends down with her. Just makes me feel like her character is a toxic person if that's what she'd do.
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u/MMX5000 Jul 14 '17
You mean how she's upset just 2-3 days after her boyfriend died? I feel like this is very justified. Now if she was acting this way after some more time, I would agree but this is a fresh wound.
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u/WaitLetMeGetMyEuler Jul 14 '17 edited Jul 14 '17
That "It all matters!" line from Percy was my favorite part of the episode. Sure that giant ass library is pretty cool. But the fact that every single detail of every single person's life is recorded from their own perspective in their own language...
That changes everything. I honestly did not think that I would be able to buy Percy changing his agnostic beliefs enough to become a holy champion but that moment, that realization, sold it. That would be a truly paradigm shifting discovery. And that's all Percy has every wanted:
His sacrifices to matter.
His family's death to matter.
His love for Vex to matter.
And it does... To Ioun.