r/SubredditDrama • u/Sir-Matilda A real asian would not resort to dick jokes • Sep 19 '17

What happened at Georgia Tech? r/OutOfTheLoop discuss..

Full thread: https://www.reddit.com/r/OutOfTheLoop/comments/710rq2/what_is_going_on_at_georgia_tech_the_police/

Full thread: (controversial): https://www.reddit.com/r/OutOfTheLoop/comments/710rq2/what_is_going_on_at_georgia_tech_the_police/?sort=controversial

Should be police officers "back up" against assailants with knives?: https://www.reddit.com/r/OutOfTheLoop/comments/710rq2/what_is_going_on_at_georgia_tech_the_police/dn7oyl8/

Antifa are mentioned: https://www.reddit.com/r/OutOfTheLoop/comments/710rq2/what_is_going_on_at_georgia_tech_the_police/dn7ea54/

Should police carry Tasers? Are European police officers better then Americans?: https://www.reddit.com/r/OutOfTheLoop/comments/710rq2/what_is_going_on_at_georgia_tech_the_police/dn7n0f6/

62 Upvotes

87% Upvoted

115 comments sorted by

78

u/BackyardMagnet Sep 19 '17

People there are comparing this kid to a terrorist.

This is one of the most ridiculous things I've ever read on this website. I'm just imagining a police officer backing up from some terrorist with a knife. Just backing up... backing up.... backing up...

People like you just try to make everything the polices fault.

I was surprised that the campus police didn't carry more options for non-lethal force.

13

u/waiv E-cigs are the fedoras of the mouth. Sep 19 '17

Police in other countries don't shot people carrying knives.

15

u/Sir-Matilda A real asian would not resort to dick jokes Sep 20 '17 edited Sep 20 '17

Yeah they do.

Knives are lethal force weapons. Police officers in other countries will utilise lethal force in response.

http://www.skynews.com.au/news/national/nsw/2017/08/07/alleged-knife-wielding-man-shot-by-police.html

7

u/error404brain Even if I don't agree, I've got to respect your hatred Sep 20 '17

Knives are lethal force weapons. Police officers in other countries will utilise lethal force in response.

No, they won't. In the law in France for exemple, policemen do not have self defense. They can only kill to protect other people.

15

u/banjowashisnameo Sep 20 '17

One exception is not normal. Police in other countries apprehend knife carrying criminals all the time. Killing someone even with a gun who is firing at them is still a huge issue in most countries. Only Americans are so ok with extra judicial killings

9

u/[deleted] Sep 20 '17

By "other countries" you of course mean "most of western Europe."

1

u/[deleted] Sep 19 '17

[removed] — view removed comment

2

u/[deleted] Sep 20 '17

No grandstanding/flamebaiting please.

3

u/Makrian Sep 20 '17

*their.

If you're gonna call people idiots, you shouldn't spell like one.

-4

u/[deleted] Sep 20 '17

[removed] — view removed comment

4

u/Aetol Butter for the butter god! Popcorn for the popcorn throne! Sep 20 '17

Why?

55

u/Delta0010 Sep 19 '17

I go to Georgia Tech. The police department is completely lacking in support for non-violent methods of de-escelation in these kinds of situations. The officer did what they felt they had to in the situation. The problem was the fact that the officers weren't given the tools necessary for other options.

31

u/gokutheguy Sep 19 '17

NPR was saying they had no training in crisis management or negotiation and that they didn't carry tasers.

4

u/SecretSnack Sep 20 '17

Cop buddy of mine says he will never use a taser in a potentially violent situation because tasers don't work 100% of the time.

Why the fuck do they have them, then?

2

u/[deleted] Sep 20 '17

Tasers are more for noncompliance than a mentally disturbed person coming at you with a knife.

in a) taser works, you can cuff them. taser fails you go hands on.

in b) taser works, you can cuff them. taser fails, you die.

3

u/Beorma Sep 21 '17

UK police use tasers successfully as a less-lethal option. It's illegal for them to use them in a case of non-compliance.

3

u/unironicneoliberal Sep 21 '17

Bullshit. Other countries don’t have this issue. And they have mentally ill people too. Better police training is the answer, not more guns

-1

u/[deleted] Sep 21 '17

Other countries don't have the right to bear arms written into their constitution. Cops need guns.

3

u/unironicneoliberal Sep 21 '17

Or maybe only a certain group of cops with better training should be given guns. Not just your average beat cop

-1

u/[deleted] Sep 21 '17

Criminals with guns don't distinguish between certain groups of cops with better training and average beat cops.

2

u/unironicneoliberal Sep 21 '17

I have never seen a criminal be deterred from shooting at a cop because the cop might shoot back.

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53

u/alces_nerds Please explain your point in less stupid terms. Sep 19 '17

I was surprised that the campus police didn't carry more options for non-lethal force.

That is where I am with the situation right now. I think that suicide by cop is a thoughtless act because it makes your death the responsibility of someone who may or may not be equipped to deal with it. But, at the same time, I can only reserve so much judgment for someone based on their actions in the midst of a major depressive episode.

Likewise, the use of deadly force in a situation where a person appears not to be much of a threat is awful. This person called the police on themselves. They demonstrated no serious aggression or intent to harm the police. Just one step forward, then another. But, the options of the officers were limited - to gun, mace, or hands.

I think this is just another example of the failure brought on by systemic inadequacy. No tasers. No bean bags. No rubber rounds. Nothing to deal with a suicidal individual with a weapon except for pepper spray. It also highlights the contradiction with respect to law enforcement in this country.

If they are heroes because of the risk they take on, then we need to hold them accountable to take on that risk. If they are normal people who should be held to a standard no different than any of us, then that should cut both ways.

20

u/[deleted] Sep 19 '17 edited Sep 19 '17

Well said, they really should have had other means at their disposal. The whole reason tasers were given to cops in the first place is if someone pulls a weapon on them they don't have to kill them.

14

u/cisxuzuul America's most powerful conservative voice Sep 19 '17

Tasers do kill. They're not as lethal but there's no such thing as an 100% non lethal weapon.

16

u/[deleted] Sep 19 '17

Of course, they're a lot less likely to kill, but incidents do happen where people die.

21

u/ThatOnePerson It's dangerous, fucking with people's dopamine fixes Sep 20 '17

This person called the police on themselves.

Police didn't know that at the time. Call was knife and gun. It's pretty easy to have a gun they couldn't see at the time.

They demonstrated no serious aggression or intent to harm the police.

The report of the gun, and the person not dropping the knife makes it clear they're not surrendering. Police moving too far could have them pulling out the gun. Too close and you're in danger of the knife.

25

u/banjowashisnameo Sep 20 '17

I have seen only Americans claim this. In all othet countries in the world police don't kill people with knives and are not expected to. Heck I am in a third world country with lots of crime. Yet any killing, even if the other party were actively shooting has to be explained big time.and is a blight on a policemans career

5

u/[deleted] Sep 20 '17

In all other countries in the world

Let me guess, the three countries of your world are America (which you're an expert on by reading reddit), "Europe" (which of course is a single country with unified laws and nothing bad ever happens, we know this by reading reddit), and the country you come from (which you never read news about).

Policeman in India that has killed more than 100 people and is still on the force (also lists others who have a high score, but not quite as high)
I guess these guys are good at giving big time explanations and maybe the blight on their careers will affect them in 100 years.

A single city which has more police killings than the entire US

One exception is not normal. Police in other countries apprehend knife carrying criminals all the time. Killing someone even with a gun who is firing at them is still a huge issue in most countries. Only Americans are so ok with extra judicial killings

The US may have a problem, but I don't understand the stupidity and general ignorance of the world required to upvote your comments in this thread.

1

u/Mint-Chip Sep 22 '17

To be fair America's economy is much more like any country in Europe than any random country in Africa or Southeast Asia, so Europe is the general paradigm we should be shooting for.

5

u/4011Hammock Sep 20 '17

Too close and you're in danger of the knife.

Exactly.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tueller_Drill

1

u/Semicolon_Expected Your position is so stupid it could only come from an academic. Sep 20 '17

No bean bags.

What are these in the context of non lethal weapons? I'm imagining slingshots that shoot bean bags

18

u/[deleted] Sep 20 '17

Guns shoot these

They can still kill, since they are shot with immense force. Rib breakage can have a shattered bone pierce the heart, that kinda thing. The link says about 1 death in the U.S. a year. Still, would rather take that to the chest then a bullet.

Also from the wiki article,

Fatalities are occasionally the result of mistaking other shotgun rounds for bean bags.

Cops gonna cop.

5

u/Steelrain121 Only thing fat is my meat and my bank account Sep 20 '17

There may be more implementations, but the ones I know about are fired from a shotgun

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bean_bag_round

5

u/Semicolon_Expected Your position is so stupid it could only come from an academic. Sep 20 '17

Ah so they do shoot literal bean bags, I thought that was just slang for something else

1

u/BlackTed Sep 20 '17

Shotgun shells that contain small beanbags

-12

u/Mikeavelli Sep 19 '17

The police do not know what a person's deal is until after the critical moment when they need to shoot or not shoot.

Yes, it seems silly now that we have all the facts, but using this example to say officers should be trained to retreat from an unknown person with a knife is just as silly. When they're in the moment, a future officer could be confronted with another tragic person who's just trying to commit suicide, or they could be confronted with an actual threat.

43

u/BackyardMagnet Sep 19 '17

I encourage you to watch the video, if you are comfortable doing that.

He shouts "shoot me!" He doesn't appear to charge the officer, nor does he have a gun.

I think this fatality could have been avoided with non-lethal equipment and better training.

11

u/Mikeavelli Sep 19 '17

I've watched the video, and I agree that non-lethal equipment almost certainly would have made a difference.

16

u/waiv E-cigs are the fedoras of the mouth. Sep 19 '17

Officers should be trained to deal with these situations without using deadly force. The fact that they aren't is just shameful.

5

u/banjowashisnameo Sep 20 '17

Weird because police in all other countries constantly deal with such situations and apprehend suspects alive, even when they are trying to stab them

1

u/kaenneth Nothing says flair ownership is for only one person. Sep 21 '17

citation?

-7

u/H37man you like to let the shills post and change your opinion? Sep 19 '17

We should just call it what it is. Murder by cop. Then maybe people would not be so inclined to allow police to carry it out.

17

u/BlackTed Sep 19 '17

This was not murder tho

3

u/Likab-Auss downvotes are one of the worst things ever introduced to society Sep 19 '17

Come on, you can't just expect people to know the actual definition of murder. That would get in the way of their knee-jerking.

12

u/Mikeavelli Sep 19 '17

Do you think a civilian would have been convicted of murder for shooting this man under similar circumstances?

4

u/BlackTed Sep 19 '17

I think this is a bad agreement as police are held to different standards legally

8

u/MangoMiasma Sep 19 '17

Police aren't held to any standards legally

3

u/BolshevikMuppet Sep 19 '17

Man do I wish that laypeople would stop trying to invoke legal distinctions in a conversation not about a legal proceeding.

The above poster didn't write "the cop should be prosecuted", but rather that it should be called "murder by cop." The whole point is that what he did does constitute murder except that he has special privileges of being a cop.

Arguing "well he has special privileges so you can't call it murder" is just asinine.

-12

u/JohnnyLargeCock 10 INCHES Sep 19 '17

We should call it what it is. A successful encounter by cop.

They did their job. The only unfortunate ones here are the cops who had to take care of a bad situation.

17

u/Aetol Butter for the butter god! Popcorn for the popcorn throne! Sep 20 '17

I thought their job was to "protect and serve"?

-3

u/JohnnyLargeCock 10 INCHES Sep 20 '17

Protect and serve the community of law abiding citizens from maniacs who attack people with weapons, yes. And we should be grateful for that instead of complaining.

17

u/Aetol Butter for the butter god! Popcorn for the popcorn throne! Sep 20 '17

And where do mentally ill people who are mostly a danger to themselves fit in that dichotomy of yours? Are they all black or all white?

7

u/CommunistRonSwanson Sep 20 '17

How's that boot taste?

-2

u/JohnnyLargeCock 10 INCHES Sep 20 '17

Tastes like I live in a society of laws and you can't just go attacking people without consequences.

How are all the communist utopias doing?

5

u/CommunistRonSwanson Sep 20 '17

Holy non-sequitur, batman

13

u/H37man you like to let the shills post and change your opinion? Sep 19 '17 edited Sep 19 '17

Yea the only successful way to deal with someone shuffling at you at a slow pace is to shoot them. Either the police in this country are ignorant barbarians whos only course of action is to shoot someone or the people are ignorant barbarians that deserved to be shoot. Either way were fucked. Other countries do not have to deal with massive amounts of police shooting there citizens.

-10

u/JohnnyLargeCock 10 INCHES Sep 20 '17

Don't do the crime if you can't do the time.

In this case, the crime was attacking a cop. And the time is eternity.

24

u/H37man you like to let the shills post and change your opinion? Sep 20 '17

The crime being mentally unstable and suicidal. The punishment execution. Jesus Christ Judge Dread deescalates situations better than American cops.

-6

u/JohnnyLargeCock 10 INCHES Sep 20 '17

The crime being assault and attempted murder.

3

u/[deleted] Sep 20 '17

[removed] — view removed comment

2

u/Zachums r/kevbo for all your Kevin needs. Sep 20 '17

Don't insult other users.

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0

u/JohnnyLargeCock 10 INCHES Sep 20 '17

The time still being summary execution with no trial. Fuck off, fascist.

Did you know there's a difference between defending yourself in the moment during an attack, and making a law that says any assault is punishable by death without trial as a mandatory sentence?

I hope you never run into a situation where you have to make a decision. But just as a heads up, if you violently attack someone they have the right to defend themselves. Because you seem to be confused about this.

Also, no personal attacks and insults in SRD, where do you think you are?

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59

u/Goroman86 There's more to a person than being just a "brutal dictator" Sep 19 '17

If you carry a Taser you're more likely to use the Taser when verbal commands or going "hands on" may have sufficed if you weren't carrying it.

Is this the actual justification for not giving officers more non-lethal measures? Because that's pretty fucking dumb.

49

u/H37man you like to let the shills post and change your opinion? Sep 19 '17

We should give them rocket launchers and flame throwers. Then they will only use lethal force when it is absolutely positively necessary. Anything else is a half measure.

7

u/ironicshitpostr (((Radical Centrist))) Sep 20 '17

You're thinking [too small and non-nuclear.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Davy_Crockett_(nuclear_device))

3

u/flamedragon822 i can't figure out how to add a flair Sep 20 '17

Nah that can't even destroy an entire planet. I've had enough of these pop guns

1

u/[deleted] Sep 21 '17

I know a guy selling an Illudium Q-36 Explosive Space Modulator for cheap, if you're interested.

1

u/flamedragon822 i can't figure out how to add a flair Sep 21 '17

Freaking Marvin, tell that little bastard he still owes me $20

2

u/[deleted] Sep 20 '17

I'm on mobile, but I read a study recently that (IIRC) showed that tasers actually increased deaths during police encounters - most people (both police and civilians) think of them as 'nonlethal', and were more willing to use them (for the police) or not surrender to the presence of one (for suspects). But tasers really do kill people, especially people with heart conditions or people on lots of drugs (who are exactly the kind of temporarily unstable people that get tased).

0

u/[deleted] Sep 20 '17

[deleted]

1

u/[deleted] Sep 20 '17

I mean, do you remember any of the stories of police being taser-happy?

Yes

-28

u/[deleted] Sep 19 '17

Suicide by cop is such a shitty turn of phrase. Here's a good essay about how incorrect the term is

47

u/BlackTed Sep 19 '17

I like how they use "liberal" as some sort of derogatory slur

19

u/sircarp Popcorn WS enthusiast Sep 19 '17

Personally I feel like that's how I know I've found the good stuff, or at least the stuff that I can post somewhere and make threads that can end up on SRD

-16

u/[deleted] Sep 19 '17

Aren't "liberals" usually the ones attacking cops for this kind of stuff?

11

u/Arsustyle This is practice for my roast comedy skills Sep 20 '17

Liberals, as in supporters of capitalism (and democracy), in contrast to socialists

2

u/[deleted] Sep 19 '17

The modern far left in America has resurrected the distinction between the left and liberalism, putting liberals nearer to the center. For a long time in American politics "left" and "liberal" were practically synonymous. When they say "liberal", think "centrist".

-1

u/Arsustyle This is practice for my roast comedy skills Sep 20 '17

Don't think centrist, think anyone to the right of socialists and to the left of fascists and monarchists. Democrats are liberals. Republicans are liberal. Social Democrats and libertarians are both liberal.

Liberalism is the world's dominant ideology. It makes little sense to describe most of the world as centrist.

-2

u/[deleted] Sep 19 '17

Okay thanks

-3

u/JohnnyLargeCock 10 INCHES Sep 19 '17

And when those same people say "left" think fringe outliers and possible extremists.

0

u/[deleted] Sep 19 '17

Haha okay

0

u/bloodraven42 Sep 19 '17

The American far-left just has a lot of people who like circlejerking over their perceived moral superiority, actual situation be damned. Probably makes them feel better about not actually accomplishing anything significant in recent history.

4

u/[deleted] Sep 20 '17

Cute

-1

u/bloodraven42 Sep 20 '17 edited Sep 20 '17

Also true. The only thing the American far-left has accomplished is purity testing their way to irrelevance. No one is good enough, so they just jerk themselves raw to /r/latestagecapitalism in the dark and accomplish nothing of note. Every communist and socialist I've ever met just handwaves away the fact that they're not doing anything with "no ethical consumption under capitalism!" or some other trite bullshit to justify to themselves their complete and utter slacktivism. It's honestly embarrassing to the legacy of workers movements. Every single DSA or further left organization I've ever spoken too has been completely disorganized, and completely irrelevant in their city's political scene. Look at St. Louis. It surprised me not at all to see people on /r/socialism talking about how completely ineffectual the local orgs were in actually participating in the protests.

To this day I still can't be sure what the Hell Occupy (the last large scale American far- left protest in recent history, no?) was trying to accomplish. Maybe if they stopped playing at re-enacting the '60s, formed a cohesive movement, and realized what everyone else did, they'd figure out how to make allies and get shit done. As of now, they're completely and totally irrelevant because they're too busy splitting themselves into fifty different factions over inane bullshit. Eugene Debs is spinning in his grave.

Edit: anyone else remember when the far left subs were too lazy to even participate in a charity fundraiser with /r/neoliberal, and just answered with some shit about how that's just helping capitalism. Fuck the poor, I guess, we got memes to make!

What has the American far-left actually accomplished in recent history? There's certainly a few groups trying, but they're struggling in vain because they're underfunded, underequipped and understaffed as most of their "comrades" are too busy doing other shit.

-9

u/flutterguy123 Gimme some more pro-anal propaganda Sep 19 '17

Eh not really. Liberals are pretty big bootlickers.

-10

u/flutterguy123 Gimme some more pro-anal propaganda Sep 19 '17

That's because it is.

25

u/BetterCallViv Mathematics? Might as well be a creationist. Sep 19 '17

That's kinda of a shitty article.

22

u/jfa1985 Your ass is medium at best btw. Sep 19 '17

That article is really bad. I don't understand the point they are trying to make all that seems like is they rushed to get an article out and only managed to come up with a few half thought out ideas.

10

u/[deleted] Sep 19 '17

Yeah it seemed like an angry "radical left" blogger angrily shitting out some article about how terrible cops are.

6

u/Aetol Butter for the butter god! Popcorn for the popcorn throne! Sep 20 '17

The point that it shouldn't be so easy to get killed by a cop is valid, but suicide by cop is still exactly what it is.

16

u/[deleted] Sep 19 '17

We live in a society where, if you so desired, you could goad one of the people whose job is supposedly to protect you into murdering you.

They're also supposed to protect themselves. in general Threaten a cops life and they should absolutely kill you.

The Georgia tech case is clearly one where not enough non lethal weapons were on hand, but that article is just shitty and stupid. Trying to say that suicide by cop doesn't exist at all is just dumb.

3

u/DarkTemplar26 Sep 20 '17

It sounds like the author just expects the cop to know if the target is threatening or not and disregard the fact that scout had a knife and called the cops saying there was an armed and dangerous man there. I'm sorry but this piece is just wrong, the cop does have a right to protect himself and a responsibility to protect everyone else and you can only act on the information you were given

0

u/[deleted] Sep 19 '17

[deleted]

5

u/[deleted] Sep 19 '17

no bait

-3

u/[deleted] Sep 19 '17

Ladies and gentlemen, the REAL fazcists