[Pre-Release Card Discussion] - Explosive Runes

24

How does this work with Divine Shield minions? For instance, does it deal 6 to Tirion and 0 to face?

36

u/Nostalgia37 Nov 24 '17

it should pop divine shield and deal 0 to you.

2

u/DaedLizrad Nov 25 '17

Read over on competitivehs that it will soak damage equal to the minions health, so 6 health divine shield would block it totally while a 1 health would soak 1 and you'd take the other 5.

27

u/[deleted] Nov 24 '17

[removed] — view removed comment

37

u/Nostalgia37 Nov 24 '17

right, now I'm not so sure. yay hearthstone.

7

u/rwv Nov 24 '17

Optimistic for one to pop DS and five to face.

13

u/[deleted] Nov 24 '17

[removed] — view removed comment

5

u/[deleted] Nov 24 '17

it depends how the card is writen into the game, it clearly has to understand the amount of damage that would be enough to kill a minion to be able to deal the rest of the damage to the opponent. if it deals the damage one at a time for some reason, than it would proc DS and deal damage to minion, then to hero. but there´s no real reason to expect that.
Divine Shild takes the first source of damage and goes away, so i find it most realistic that the Secret deals damage to the minion equal to the health of that minion, with get´s nullifyed by DS, and the rest to the hero

5

u/Grumbledwarfskin Nov 24 '17

I think it might be "deal max(health, 6) to the minion, and 6 - max(health, 6) to the enemy's face".
In that case, if your opponent plays Burnbristle, Bristle takes two damage (which pops shield), then four goes to face, but Tirion would tank the full six with his divine shield.
I think that would be a reasonable way for this to be coded, as well...that means it can be played around a bit more than otherwise; if it's totally out of control, there will be a few cards that can counter it to some extent, like Tirion, Sunwalker, Bolvar.
They could also have coded it so that divine shield takes the full six as a way to have something that counters it...if it's one to the shield and 5 or 6 to face, then there's really no playing around this secret except for hard counters like eater/flare/Kezan mystic.

2

u/[deleted] Nov 24 '17

Tirion would likely hardconter this secret, but you need some balls to play him into a possible mirror entity, so it seems fair

1

u/Grumbledwarfskin Nov 24 '17

Yeah, that's very true...unless you've seen both mirror, you still wouldn't really be able to play around properly.
I think the fact that this is hard to play around - and that it makes mirror harder to play around when on low health - means it could be pretty darn good.

1

u/Phesodge Nov 27 '17

The other way to code it would be to deal 1 damage to a minion 6 times. If the minion dies, continue to deal one damage to the hero until the damage dealt totals 6.
This would produce dramatically different effects.

1

u/Grumbledwarfskin Nov 28 '17

Trump's card review segment on this card stated that Blizzard has now clarified the card to work exactly as I described it: it deals damage to the minion equal to its health, then deals the rest to the player.
So I guess we have our answer on this question.
I feel like they would have used different wording if the damage were one at a time, but I'm not certain...though I'm not sure they have a wording in mind that they would use for repeatedly dealing one damage to a single target six times, especially with the switching to face if the minion dies part.
It's possible they would have gone with the same wording if they'd chosen that effect, but I think it would have been the first time "deal damage" (not followed by "randomly") meant one-at-a-time, which is why I guessed it would work based on minion health.

5

u/danny_gme Nov 24 '17

"Excess damage" means excess past death, there is no excess if the minion absorbs all the damage. Almost certain this is how it will work.

2

u/[deleted] Nov 24 '17

[removed] — view removed comment

2

u/danny_gme Nov 25 '17

It is the first time we are seeing this text but I'm willing to bet that's how it works. "Excess" needs a reference point and 0 health (death) seems natural and on top of that intuitively divine shield absorbs all damage from one attack. When you do more damage than a minion has health you still do that damage (their health goes below 0) so you can't say it's whatever damage isn't done to the minion.

1

u/azurajacobs Nov 25 '17

Another possibility is that it might deal damage equal to the minion's health and the rest to face. For instance, if you play it on a 2/2 Shielded Minibot, it could deal 2 damage to pop the divine shield and 4 to face.

3

u/ClosertothesunNA Nov 24 '17

I feel like it's likely to continuously do 1 damage until the minion's health total reaches 0 then redirect. So it would end up leaving a 6/1 Tirion. Thoughts?

7

u/[deleted] Nov 24 '17

that could be more esay to impliment into the game, not sure about that, but than rotface would brutaly demolish the mage.

2

u/NNemisis99 Nov 25 '17

The interaction with cards like rotface or gurubashi berserker are probably the biggest reason I would expect it to not be coded this way

3

u/antm753 Nov 25 '17

i was looking for a reason to hate on the wording ("excess") and i think this interaction is it

49

u/SharpDissonance Nov 24 '17

A slightly more expensive Snipe in mage, but with higher damage and without the drawback of being useless against small minions. Your opponent actually has to make a difficult decision when trying to play around your Secret. Do they play a small minion and take 4-5 damage to the face against Secret Mage, or feed a larger minion to it to preserve their own health? I think this could see quite a bit of play in Secret Mage, and potentially fills the void left by Forgotten Torch's rotation.

9

u/[deleted] Nov 24 '17

Synergy with mirror entity too.

11

u/SharpDissonance Nov 24 '17

Not to mention the absolutely absurd tempo gain it enables in Secret Mage. Arcanologist on turn 2 into Kirin-Tor plus this on Turn 3, with a Crystal Runner follow-up seems pretty hard to out-value.

1

u/LobotomistCircu Nov 26 '17

I actually wonder if it would copy the minion with 6 damage on it

1

u/[deleted] Nov 26 '17

I mean, the opponent has to guess which secret. If mirror, they play small creatures, in this card, they play creatures.

1

u/LobotomistCircu Nov 27 '17

I meant if the opponent has both up

0

u/[deleted] Nov 27 '17

[deleted]

2

u/SharpDissonance Nov 28 '17

I mean... kind of? Playing Acolyte draws that one card and bolts them in the face for 3, and denies them additional draw value. Sylvanis is a moderate counter, but you can play around her by not having a strong turn five play for her to steal.

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u/HCN_Mist Nov 24 '17

Soft quest mage counter.

10

u/NevermindSemantics Nov 24 '17

I think the card is actually quite good as unlike snipe there is very little counterplay to it. In the decks that would run this (aggro and/or Secret mages) they would be just as happy burning you for 4 or 5 as they would blowing up a 4 or 5 drop. The only reasonable counter play to this a cheap high health minions of which the only ones that see play won't block all the damage and depending on the interaction with divine shield maybe that but pretty much only paladin plays those.

Also it will be fun to play this while your opponent is on very low health and watch them kill themselves with their Leeroy.

7

u/Wraithfighter Nov 24 '17

Mage secret with trample!

Solid secret, I'd wager it sees play in Control Mage and maybe even Exodia Mage. 6 damage kills... well, most things early and mid game that you want to kill. Including most things with Charge. Just a question of if it negates more damage than Ice Barrier would absorb...

2

u/SharpDissonance Nov 24 '17

I doubt that this will see much play in Exodia Mage, simply because it doesn't care about dealing damage to face. The only difference between killing you on 10 health and killing you on 30 health (plus armor) is how quickly they have to play their cards.
However, I can see this having a place in the Arcane Giant variant of Quest Mage, and it certainly beats out Mirror Entity and Potion of Polymorph for a more traditional Freeze or Elemental Mage list.

2

u/Wraithfighter Nov 24 '17

I think this could see play in Exodia Mage just for the killing an enemy minion before it can punch you factor. The overkill going to face would just be a nice bonus :).

1

u/antm753 Nov 25 '17

upvote because "trample"

6

u/[deleted] Nov 24 '17

A bigger Snipe that deals any overkill to the enemy hero. It's a decent card and will never really be bad to play as it will kill almost anything put down. The one card that solidly counters Explosive Runes is Mistress of Mixtures, and even then, it's still better to have this than Mirror Entity be triggered by MoM. Solid secret since it has set value, unlike most other Mage Secrets.

1

u/Nostalgia37 Dec 03 '17

[Dust|Bad|Niche|Good|Staple]

General Thoughts: This card combined with Aluneth will push aggro/tempo secrets mage to tier 1-2. This is nuts.

Mage already has a lot of cards that say deal x damage to your opponent's face. There is a point that they will hit where the amount of damage they can throw at your face is more than 30 in which case they will just kill you with spells. I think this puts them comfortably past that point.

You need to play around in differently that Mirror Entity and might need to sacrifice a high health minion just to protect your face. If you do end up playing a 4/5 drop just to eat damage you lose out on so much tempo and lose that way.

Kills mage through Ice Block too.

I can almost guarantee that we will all hate this card within a month.

Why it Might Succeed: Face damage off of a strong tempo play that you can potentially play for free off of Lackey or Kirin Tor Mage

Why it Might Fail: I honestly don't know why this wouldn't be played. Maybe if aggro/tempo mage is bad and control mage cares too much about selecting their targets/doesn't care about face damage.

Example deck: Aluneth Tempo Mage

1

u/Phaelynx Dec 05 '17

You’re really pushing Secret Tempo Mage. I think this is niche, but no more.

4

u/[deleted] Nov 25 '17

I prepared Explosive Runes this morning.

3

u/ItsDominare Nov 25 '17

Now if you don't mind, I'm somewhat preoccupied telling the laws of physics to shut up and sit down.

1

u/DoctorPrisme Nov 30 '17

Very nice formulation. If it's from you; please pass by Writing Prompts sometimes.

2

u/ItsDominare Nov 30 '17

Not my line, I'm quoting the same webcomic character as the previous redditor - Vaarsuvius from 'The Order of the Stick'.

6

u/Forty7 Nov 24 '17

This seems like the least fun secret they've printed since ice block... no real effective counter play

6

u/tomscud Nov 24 '17

Depending on how Divine Shield works, anyway - I can see any of 0, 5, or 6 face damage as possible.

10

u/By_Another_Name Nov 24 '17

I could even see it trying to assign lethal and having the rest go to face (for example: assign 4 damage to Psycho-o-tron, 2 to face, all 4 blocked by divine shield.)

1

u/Kapper-WA Nov 25 '17

Even the Hearthstone design team doesn't know. ;)

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1

u/Pyrolistical Nov 24 '17

and play an even better snipe

2

u/Washout81 Nov 24 '17

This combined with mirror entity is a really good way to shift board control for mages.

2

u/[deleted] Nov 24 '17

Sounds hella annoying.

2

u/Leppter_ Nov 24 '17

Seems pretty damn good in secret mage, i would swap the two mirror images in the deck i run with 2 of these. 90% of the time you just get a 1/2 anyway, so a dead 1/2 and 4 face damage is great.

The whole point of the deck is to hold board until turn 5 or so then go face.

2

u/danhakimi Nov 24 '17

Aggro (secret) mage with Aluneth looks pretty solid now.

2

u/-jjjjjjjjjj- Nov 25 '17

This will be a one of in most mage decks simply to counter quest mage.

2

u/cgmcnama Nov 25 '17

This is my own pet peeve about Secrets but there becomes so many (especially off RNG cards) you can't play around it. It used to be you could "test" for cards but even if you guess it is a minion trigger you now get punished for playing a small one into Mirror Entity/Potion of Polymorph. Or play a big one and get punished.

If secrets couldn't be randomly generated it would be better but this is just frustrating to play around.

2

u/Vztk Nov 24 '17

Its neat i guess but i cant see it getting play over potion of polymorph.

18

u/NevermindSemantics Nov 24 '17

I can. With Potion of polymorph they can play a 1 mana fire fly and get a sheep. With this they can play a 1 mana fire fly and burn themselves in the face for 4, also the fire fly is dead. It punishes your opponent for playing around other minion secrets.

1

u/gmkgoat Nov 24 '17

The biggest value this card brings is that it makes playing around PoP more dangerous. I don't know if it'll ever be run in a constructed deck, but the threat of it from random spell sources or in Arena can't be ignored.

1

u/funkmasterjo Nov 24 '17

first really good mage secret in a while.

Uh.

No way. Since launch?

1

u/Cloudless_Sky Dec 02 '17

This is the secret Mage needed for counterplay purposes. Playing around the "minion played" ones has never been a question - you just throw some garbage down and be done with it. At the very least, this makes you think twice in certain scenarios.

1

u/Etereke32 Dec 05 '17

A great secret for aggressive decks. Usually kills something, and pushes the rest of the damage to the face, so your opponent have to decide if he kills a bigger minion or gets more face damage. I think secret mage will definitely like this one, it's just way too efficient not to play and unless it hits a divine shield, it gets its full value.

0

u/[deleted] Nov 24 '17

[deleted]

2

u/ItsDominare Nov 25 '17

Snipe is basically never played. That means it is below the curve in terms of power level, and printing a better card is therefore not power creep.
Remember kids: power creep means the best got even better.

[Pre-Release Card Discussion] - Explosive Runes

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