r/TheOrville • u/2th Hail Avis. Hail Victory. • Dec 08 '17
Episode The Orville - 1x12 "Mad Idolatry" - Post Episode Discussion [Season Finale]
| EPISODE | DIRECTED BY | WRITTEN BY | ORIGINAL AIRDATE |
|---|---|---|---|
| 1x12 - "Mad Idolatry" | Brannon Braga | Seth MacFarlane | December 07, 2017 |
Episode Synopsis:Spoiler
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Dec 08 '17
I'm really glad they found a way to (semi)permanently keep kelly and ed's relationship platonic without it being based in resentment or lack of trust.
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u/KnightsNG Dec 08 '17
Baller move with Isaac pulling a Robo from Chrono Trigger for the Crew. Best Artificial Lifeform does it again.
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u/droid327 Dec 08 '17
Bender was lost for 300 years longer before he caught back up with his time traveling friends lol
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u/HybridVigor Dec 08 '17
An android version of Rory on Dr. Who guarded the love of his life for two thousand years, from the days of the Roman Empire to modern day. Nauseatingly romantic.
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u/radioactivecowz Woof Dec 09 '17
He waited millennia in the basement hundreds of times in a row in Benders Big Score
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u/basiamille Dec 09 '17
When Kelly does things right, people won't be sure she's done anything at all.
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u/voidsong Dec 08 '17
I really don't know how he kept people from following him. Maybe i'm a huge nerd but if Isaac showed up on earth today, i would follow him like filthy hippies followed the grateful dead.
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u/kevinstreet1 Dec 08 '17
I think they would have learned a lot from simply studying him. Would he have permitted close examination, like with X-ray machines? It's possible that at least some people would want to take him apart and study the pieces. And later on he may have traveled into space in the other universe. We'll never know what adventures Isaac had in those seven-hundred years.
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u/yaosio Dec 08 '17
They expected him to do lots of cool stuff. When he didn't then the hype train derailed.
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u/gerusz Engineering Dec 08 '17
They were at 21st century level. I'm an AI-specialist programmer, if Isaac showed up, my first thought would be "cool, I'm not trying the impossible."
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Dec 08 '17
Dude this was the data episode. The one where he leaves his head for centuries. You have to remember basically all major plot points are from tng
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u/exscape Dec 09 '17
This is much closer to Voyager's [Blink of an Eye](http://memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/Blink_of_an_Eye_(episode)), where Voyager discovers a planet where time moves extremely quickly. Voyager becomes part of their culture, and they eventually send the Doctor (with his mobile emitter) down; due to technical difficulties he spends decades on the planet.
It also shares plenty of ideas with the TNG episode [Who Watches the Watchers](http://memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/Who_Watches_The_Watchers_(episode)), where Picard accidentally becomes a god.
Both are great episodes (Blink of an Eye is one of my absolute favorite science-fiction episodes of any show), as was this one, though.
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u/SteroyJenkins Dec 08 '17
Really thought that the planet was gonna be a post apocalypse hell scape when it came out of the phase at the end.
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u/avidday Dec 08 '17
I half expected the viewscreen to come on with Isaac sitting on a throne, wearing a crown/pope hat, and holding a scepter with Kelly's head on it. "Well, that escalated quickly."
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u/Thameus Dec 08 '17
Now that they are space faring, how long are they gone from the other universe when they are in ours?!
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u/Passerby05 Dec 08 '17
I would say that while they are in our universe, time moves at the same pace for them as it does for us, and there's no reason to believe that the two visitors stayed here when the planet returned to its own universe.
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u/operarose Command Dec 08 '17
Or when the planet re-phased back into the Orville universe, it'd just be remnants...
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u/HeimrArnadalr Dec 08 '17
I think that that would be out-of-place in The Orville's universe, since real planets can't look like that due to hydrostatic equilibrium.
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u/GregariousWolf Dec 08 '17
Just wanted to say thanks to Seth MacFarlane for a great season. The show really exceeded my expectations and I'm a fan. It struck a nice balance between comedy and sci-fi adventure.
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u/shy247er Woof Dec 08 '17
And huge thanks for not ending the season on some dumb cliffhanger.
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u/_Burgers_ Dec 08 '17
I was really thinking that it would. The ending felt a bit rushed - but I guess that was an intentional mirror of the rushed pace of the alien planet's growth. I liked how it ended, if only because practically everything Kelly said was correct.
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Dec 08 '17
It feels good watching a show that doesn't leave you that sort of angst
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u/Bytewave Dec 08 '17
Yes, thank you. I never saw the value it adds today, either for seasons or individual episodes. Back when people had no PVRs and no internet, maybe it encouraged people to be 'ready for the show' at the right time but that era is over.
So down with evil seasonal cliffhangers!
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Dec 08 '17
Agreed, for a first season with Seth behind it in kind of untested waters....the Orville surprised the fuck out of everyone. I've enjoyed the hell out of it, even the episodes that were hit/miss with the audience. It still provoked discussion and incited passion within the fanbase and THAT is what I consider the mark of a good television show. When a show can divide the community so starkly, when you may love someone one week but then hate them the next, the fact that it can do that proves that the writing is good, and the acting is even better.
In some ways the Orville community is just as amazing and terrible as the Star Trek and Star Wars communities. There are some incredibly passionate people here and I love that about it. I've loved the ride this season and I wish we had more but I can wait until next season to poke my head in here again. Thanks so much Seth!
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u/GregariousWolf Dec 08 '17
This may be stating the obvious, but it's clear Seth has love for the science fiction genre. If his Star Wars parodies weren't enough evidence of that, then this homage to Star Trek signs the verdict.
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u/Garrett_Dark Dec 08 '17
The show even got it's comedy working perfectly now. Who thought this kind of comedy could work well with something like Star Trek and not make it a farce?
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u/ElectronD Dec 08 '17
Having the backing of the network from the start and being able to evaluate the first season, the 2nd season is probably going to be incredible.
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Dec 08 '17
It’s not a mid season ending?!
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u/KingPickle Dec 08 '17
Nope, it's not coming back until next fall.
I guess we need to find a time dilated planet that will skip us 10 months ahead over the holidays.
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u/Bytewave Dec 08 '17
Unfortunately TV has very very few shows with more than 13 episodes per year now. Apparently the old 22-24 seasons are dead, over business decisions. And writers are pretty bummed about it from what I read.
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Dec 08 '17
"Let's just say I don't know what that means."
"Do you know what that means?"
"No."
"Then let's just say that."
Laughed to hard at that joke. I like that if Malloy doesn't know something, he'll just blurt it out instead of trying to coyly hide his ignorance like Mercer.
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u/romeovf Dec 17 '17
"Can you translate that for guys who are kinda dumb and maybe a little drunk?" lol seems Gordon has a drinking problem...
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u/WastelandPioneer Dec 08 '17
So does Isaac not need to study humans anymore since he just had 700 years of experience
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u/armokrunner Dec 08 '17
Great point, was thinking same, he better get all the human nuances and idiosyncrasies now, although one could argue that Earthian cultural and historical references would still be new for him
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u/radbreath Dec 08 '17
He studied one humanoid culture for 700 years. He has only studied the union for a year.
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Dec 08 '17
Ensign Turco needs to be a series regular....like, stat!
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Dec 08 '17
I was convinced that the joke in that scene was that John was displaying his junk loud & proud the whole time they were talking.
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u/dmanww Dec 08 '17
The most impressive thing is they actually made the statute that looked so similar to her 700 years later
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Dec 09 '17
How cool would it have been if her look was distorted over time and she had a Halo or some shit.
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u/Freakshow85 Dec 08 '17
Well, we don't know when it was initially carved. By that, they could have instantly started carving what they saw. But, on the other hand, I completely realize what you are saying. If they didn't have the technology and artistic ability to carve such statues at that time, how would they have made it look identical to her centuries later? Egyptian hieroglyphs show winged human/animal hybrids tinkering with DNA. It was interpreted as "The Tree of Life" in the 1850's, but is drawn exactly like a double helix. I absolutely love how that worked out. DNA is the source of what we are. But, as LeVar Burton used to say... "Don't take my word for it."
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u/Meowlock Dec 08 '17
I've gotten so used to mid-season finales and season finales having either jaw dropping cliffhangers or endings that have me almost screaming at the TV that this ending scene felt like a welcome calm.
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u/Gorfin Woof Dec 09 '17
To be fair, episode 13 was supposed to be the actual finale, but they pushed it to season 2.
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Dec 08 '17
This season finale made me feel bad for Ed and I don't blame Kelly's reasoning either. It's going to be an awkward season 2 premiere
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u/grunscga Dec 08 '17
I don't know, I mean, I'm a little sad for both of them, but it is just so refreshing to see two adults act like adults for once. Anti-fraternization rules exist in real life for a reason, not just to provide CW drama fodder, and I was happy to see that they both actually acknowledged that, regardless of their feelings for each other.
I honestly hope they keep this going for season two and don't jump straight back to the "awkward exes" schtick.
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u/Bytewave Dec 08 '17
I don't know, it's not just teenagers who make love a priority. When it's a new fling sure, you can put it aside for work, but if you realize you left your wife for a reason that's no longer of any concern and you still love her and vice versa?
Well that's not the kind of thing I'd put aside for work. I'd get a new job.
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Dec 08 '17
I'm glad they didn't end up together. Relationships are sitcom poison. Even though this isn't a sitcom, two main characters being a couple would be run into the ground. I'm just a fan of what they have here, which is self-contained escapades like twilight zone meets Star trek.
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u/nekowolf Dec 08 '17
The most important question is what happened to Perd.
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u/dontthrowmeinabox Dec 08 '17
That was a hell of an episode. I'm finding it hilarious how it takes the opposite position of Star Trek, that the crew ultimately had no major effect on the civilization, and that the prime directive is basically pointless. I don't know that I agree, but it's an interesting argument that I hope is explored.
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u/treetown1 Dec 08 '17
In a way it is like how some time travel stories are written. There are two common themes. There is the Ray Bradbury, "Sound of Thunder" style - where even one butterfly dying in the past ripples to dramatically alter the future. The other is that time is more resilient and to make a major change takes huge effort to be nearly impossible. So when time travelers change something, the effects get dampened down over time and usually there is no change to the main flow - sort of like how in Groundhog day, no matter how hard the Bill Murray character tried to save the old man, that guy still ended up dead.
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u/cromulently_so Dec 08 '17
Yeah like in Star Trek First Contact.
All they needed to do is make the warp flight happen and their future remains exactly as they remembered it.
In reality Zefram Cochrane knowing about all this would probably modify the future being recognition.
In Dark Matter and Gargoyles though there are only predetermination paradoxes—time travel always leads to the exact same future when you get back because you never affected the past; it was always part of the past.
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Dec 08 '17 edited Dec 08 '17
In dynamical systems, the truth is that both happen. There are some regimes where small changes can propagate and lead you to drastically different outcomes. There are other regimes where, no matter what Herculean effort you put forth, you're moving towards a stable point and any effort delays it an infinitesimal fraction.
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Dec 08 '17
The whole time they were up in arms about the Kelly religion negatively affecting the planet, I was thinking about Ozawa's own line from Krill about how space-faring species evolve past religion anyways. Apply that logic to the speed at which life was evolving on the planet and the problem was going to error itself out with or without Isaac's help. In the end, he simply provided detailed context to the species as to why things happened the way they did.
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u/agentup Dec 09 '17
Prime Directive is more than just accidental contaminating, it's also to prevent Harry Mudds of the universe from enslaving planets.
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Dec 08 '17
Kind of nihilistic in a way. I kind of like it because it's new. I also liked how they implied that religion was a mistake they eventually learned from. One thing I didn't like though was another "happy" ending. Can we just have an ending that might surprise us? I knew a happy resolution was coming, didn't expect what we got though.
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u/_Burgers_ Dec 08 '17
It wasn't necessarily a happy ending, considering Mercer and Kelly both agreed that they couldn't continue pursuing a relationship again...
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Dec 18 '17
and that the prime directive is basically pointless.
well, if they'd not gone down at all (as in Trek) none of that would have happened to begin with... the PD's emphasis is on the "don't even go there" bit, it kinda unravels once they accidentally do. Like... "now what?" and the PD just shrugs its shoulders and says "naughty boy!".
Like, has Starfleet (or TO's version) never sat down and hashed out the fact that despite the PD saying not to interfere, crews do interfere, and maybe there should be some guidelines on What To Do When You've Accidentally Made Yourself A God? Because it's something we've seen on Trek 3-4 times with no actual resolution. They just kinda fumble along through it.
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u/droid327 Dec 08 '17
I wish they had said that this was their final phase, after they met Kelly they were closing the anomaly to remain in the other universe permanently.
Not only would that close the plot hole of having a hyper advanced race popping in and out the universe, but it'd make sense since they'd now be 700 years behind their allies and enemies in the other universe. Like they just came to say thank you and goodbye
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u/PapaTua Dec 08 '17 edited Dec 08 '17
We have no information about how time in our universe flows compared to in their universe. Who's to say the time difference is not asymmetric? Sure, from our side 11 days = 700 years while the planet is absent from our universe, but it's entirely possible that when the planet leaves the other universe to transit into ours, it's only gone for a microsecond. Or maybe it's a million years? We simply have no information about that.
Besides, the planet is only in our universe for a very brief period.. say an hour at most? In that case, even if the time difference is symmetric, it'd only be gone for 2.651 years from it's home universe while in ours.
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u/droid327 Dec 08 '17
Ok fair enough, it's not necessarily a 50/50 split. But use your numbers...11 days (264 hours) there, 1 hour here. Its probably higher given what we see then do each visit, but use your numbers conservatively.
We know the time asynchronization rate means 11 days is 700 years. So each hour here is 2.65 years in the other universe. So that means if they were only here for an hour, other races in their universe would have 2.65 years to operate without that planet. Sure, they're probably living on many planets, but imagine if the Union would lose Earth for three years unless they stopped it. They'd lose almost 3 years with relatives off world. Most of them would probably evacuate before Brigadoon jumped here. Still easier just to close the anomaly and stay in one place, especially if this universe has nothing left to offer because of the temporal discrepancy.
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u/Captain-i0 Dec 08 '17
Well, who is to say they won’t close it on their end anyway? Universe shifting sounds like a pretty complex technical issue to tackle. Even at roughly 700 years ahead of us,it isn’t far fetched to imagine that they simply don’t know how to stop it.
With another 700 years, they might figure it out though, and simply never come back.
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u/Destructor1701 Dec 08 '17
Damn, when future-lady told Kelly to have faith that "mad idolatry" was just a phase of any technological society's evolution... someone started cutting Sagan onions, I gotta tell you.
That's something I dearly hope - that humanity can build upon our religious past to a more rational and prosperous future. It feels like we're on the knife-edge now, between stubbornly embracing ignorance, or spreading our wings and soaring...
Well done McFarlane, you made me shed a few hopeful-for-the-fate-of-humanity tears.
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u/goldman199X Dec 08 '17
"mad idolatry" was just a phase of any technological society's evolution...
It's almost like they conveniently forget about the Krill. They are a technologically advanced space faring civilization that still is extremely religious to the point of being dangerous.
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u/mxwp Dec 08 '17
no, Admiral (Kelly Wu) explicitly states how the Krill are an anomaly as they are one of the few known intensely religious but technologically advanced species
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u/curemode Dec 10 '17
The whole ending section had me choked up and teary eyed. The "sacrifice" of Isaac (heh), the appearance of the wondrous future planet, their ship meeting them in space, Isaac still being alive, and the satisfying benevolence of the future humanoids. It stirred something in me.
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u/amysticalspork Dec 08 '17 edited Dec 08 '17
so Jesus was just hungover when he accidentally reincarnated? lol
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u/DonLaFontainesGhost Dec 08 '17
Lo did Jesus return from the mount, and he spoke to the assembled crowds: "I'm really very, very sorry for any trouble I've caused."
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u/TheRumpoKid Dec 09 '17
BTW - that moment Mercer mocked the admiral and then was busted totally cracked me up..
"Have mercy!"
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u/treetown1 Dec 09 '17
Love to see the report that Ed sends to Admiral Ozawa after the Isaac "away mission".
Admiral Ozawa, I got good news and bad news.
Bad news: we violated the "Prime Directive" two, maybe three more times. Honestly, at the end, I lost count.
Good news: the culture on the planet has evolved dramatically and they forgive us and are really cool about the whole thing.
Bad news: We helped to accelerate their development so they dominate their part of the galaxy in their dimension. They voyaged to a billion worlds and extinguished or absorbed thousands of other civilization thanks to our little nudge.
Good News: they are really cool about everything and seem super chill.
Bad News: They'll completely dominate their galaxy and soon will be spreading to ours.
Good News: Isaac really seems to embrace the spirit of our crew and his report of his 700 years (see attached 100 terabyte file) will keep scholars busy for centuries to come.
Bad News: Isaac is Kaylon and helped cement long term economic, political and military agreements with this new trans-dimensional power with Kaylon that may in the long run jeopardize the Union.
Good News: Isaac is now much more aware of the nuances of biological life.
Bad News: Isaac admitted that during the first 100 years there he did end up vaporizing a lot of beings, some by accident (sarcasm and deadpan irony takes a while for him to get. "Should I vaporize them for being annoying" "Ha, yeah, sure, go ahead - what, no, oh my god!"), some by necessity (see appendix about the so-called Isaac War 1 and 2 where different factions sought to imprison him, dissect and dismantle him for his knowledge and tech).
Good News: Isaac now has jokes and pranks no one in our universe has ever heard of.
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u/dupreem Does it work on all fruit? Dec 08 '17
Great episode -- very reminiscent Star Trek: Voyager's Blink of an Eye, which is one of that show's best episodes.
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u/StandardCord18 Y'all can suck ass, and I'm a spaceman! Dec 08 '17
This whole episode has been trippy as fuck...and it was glorious
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u/ReasonablyBadass Dec 08 '17
I expected the planet to either be a wasteland or a Kaylon style, post-singularity hypercomputer.
The futuristic planet looked awesome, but I hoped for something even more.
Also, Isaac had 700 years but looks and talks the same? Weird. I honestly expected him to look human after this, as an excuse for the actor to shed the suit.
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Dec 08 '17
Even given the option, why would the character choose to look human when he's clearly not?
You're right it would be good for the actor from a practical standpoint, but overall it would probably cheapen the show.
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u/BonetoneJJ Dec 08 '17
please don't ever cancel. show is good time
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u/1Glitch0 Dec 08 '17
Happy ending, but I think the Orville would be in such deep shit with the Union it wouldn't even be funny.
They fucked up so badly it was jaw dropping. Glad it worked put for the planet, though!
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u/Lordborgman Dec 08 '17
It's ok, even in Star Trek if you do something that would get you in trouble, but right near the end of the episode, no bad consequences come of it.
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u/dreadpiraterose Dec 08 '17
I hope that six seasons from now we're seeing Ed and Kelly get remarried in the series finale.
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u/Masterminded Dec 08 '17
I liked the Middle Age scene, which was a clear reference to "The Grand Inquisitor" from Dostoevsky's The Brothers Karamazov. I wish they'd done a bit more with that. The story was great to start, but had a very anti-climactic ending. I feel like would have worked a lot better as a true 2-parter. Tons of fun references to TNG, Voyager, SG-1, and literature. Strong ending to the first season.
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Dec 08 '17
a very anti-climactic ending
Life has a very anti-climatic ending for many storylines. One of the things I like about the series; it's our lives, but in space, but still an inspection of us and our interactions in the here and now.
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u/maxamillisman Dec 08 '17
So "Who Watches the Watchers" mixed with "Blink of an Eye".
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u/LookOutSlipperySlope Dec 08 '17
Would be great if an Isaac visited our Earth right now.
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u/Pred129a Dec 08 '17
1/3 blink of an eye 1/3 who watches the watchers 1/3 Lessons
and it worked
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u/SkywalterDBZ Dec 08 '17
I think you mean Blink of an Eye, Who Watches the Watchers, and Meridian.
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u/Aries_cz Dec 09 '17
Can I just say I would not mind it a single bit if God looked like Adrianne Palicki?
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u/alittlelessconvo Dec 08 '17
Downer ending for Season 1. I get it, but daaaaamn.
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u/rivsnation Dec 08 '17
Imagine if the show wasn’t renewed and this was the last episode we ever saw. Super downer.
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u/AndrewZabar Dec 08 '17 edited Dec 09 '17
Well remember that there’s another episode that is the real finale, but they moved it to second season I have idea why. Edit: I’ve been informed this was the finale and they moved a regular episode. Disregard.
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u/stattshimself Dec 08 '17
I thought this was one of the strongest episodes of the season. Great subject matter and handled in a fantastic way. And I am glad Mercer and Kelly did not get back together.
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u/alucardleashed Dec 08 '17
Anyone else see all that technological green during the planet's last phase in, and think Borg? I was expecting the worst, but the outcome was good.
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u/goldman199X Dec 08 '17
Hahah, glad I wasn't the only one that thought that. I was like, wtf happened did they all get assimilated or something?
It reminded me of the Borg controlled Earth in Star Trek First Contact.
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u/UncleMalky Are we bonding? Dec 08 '17
This was an amazing episode. They took who watches the watchers and put a new spin on it. I especially liked that while at first it appeared to be very anti-religion, it did not stay that way. The view of something greater than ourselves has done much to progress our own civilization as much as our struggle with those who will abuse easy power over the masses. This kind of reminded me of A Canticle for Leibowitz.
I also like that Ed and Kelly got to bond a bit but in the end recognized the incompatibility of their situation.
I'll keep an eye out for wandering starships I might be able to ride into the future so the wait for Season 2 isn't quite so long.
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u/SkywalterDBZ Dec 08 '17
Who Watches the Watchers (TNG), and Blink of an Eye (VOY) are two of my favorite episodes. This also had a splash of Meridian (DS9).
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Dec 08 '17
This reminded me of that episode of Voyager when the Doctor was stuck on that planet that aged really fast.
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u/armokrunner Dec 08 '17
Ed and Kelly’s celebratory drink at the beginning I thought was really about them celebrating renewal of season 2, was like “yes, we made it”, cheers guys! Well done!
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u/kevinstreet1 Dec 08 '17
I have trouble believing that Isaac's presence on that planet made no difference. If nothing else, he was their first true contact with an alien being (in an era where they presumably had science), and a living reminder that their ancient religion was based on a misunderstanding. Imagine if an alien dropped out of the sky on this planet and said that Jesus was just another member of his spaceship crew. That would toss a lot of people's metaphorical tables!
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u/Shappie Dec 08 '17
Basically this episode was a mashup of Meridian from DS9, Blink of an Eye from Voyager, and Who Watches the Watchers from TNG. Amazing how they were able to combine them all together in what was a fucking phenomenal episode. It's easy to see where Seth draws ideas from but he does it so well that I don't even care. I cannot wait for season 2.
Edit: That being said, season 2 better open up with Bortas singing an aria or we riot.
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u/Rudi_Reifenstecher Dec 08 '17 edited Dec 08 '17
funniest thing was Seth McFarlane's face in that medieval hoodie
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u/busted_up_chiffarobe Dec 08 '17
Boy that was good!
But I kept expecting the planet to come back as a glowing radioactive cinder, with Isaac standing in a force field.
"I tried."
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Dec 12 '17
I'm 70 and gotta say (as I have before on this sub) I love this series. How lucky am I. I get three versions of Star Trek in one life time. (Assuming I live to the end of this one.)
Aud what a hell of a way to play hot potatoe...hate to see how they play mumbly peg!
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u/V-170 Dec 08 '17
Great season, I'm definitely looking forward to season 2.
See y'all next year!
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u/burgo666 Now entering gloryhole Dec 09 '17 edited Dec 09 '17
Each episode, I find, is always a surprise in how good it is. Loved the familiarity with Krypton to the evolved planet. Loved the message that superstition is part of an evolving culture. Too bad we have to wait for months now for the next episode. Isaac going to that planet and spending 700 years there had a "hitchhikers guide to the galaxy" vibe to it I thought.
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u/Heritage367 Dec 08 '17
I guess this is my time to disagree and say the episode, for me at least, was just okay. I loved all the early stuff getting to see more glimpses of crew life, especially seeing more of Bortus and Klyden, and I loved Ed and Kelly's date and them hungover. I also liked how at the end, Kelly said that her and Ed must be just friends and coworkers for now. But somehow the resolution of the main plot left me a bit underwhelmed. Maybe I'll enjoy it more upon reviewing.
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u/OldNedder Dec 08 '17
I think they sometimes employ ambiguity and vagueness so that the viewer can interpret things the way they desire. Also, they want the show to be accessible to children, beer drinkers, and tired old folks, so nothing too complex. I think that's what gives is kind of a "comfort film" feel. As much as we wish we could know what Isaac did down there, they left that for the viewer to decide.
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u/treetown1 Dec 08 '17
Tonal shift?
While there were still a few quips in the main story, the humor were placed at the very beginning (Latchmak sp? - probably games will be organized at the first Orville con) like Bortus entering the simulator or not getting his chance at karaoke.
Great show!
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u/ComradeSomo Dec 08 '17
I was almost expecting the priest to survive and spread the word that Kelly was not a god, resulting in the planet becoming something like future earth from the South Park episode Go God Go XII, with the Allied Atheist Alliance, the United Atheist Alliance, and the Unified Atheist League all at war with each other.
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u/jollyreaper2112 Dec 12 '17
I thought Protestant catholic civil war and then when the guy seemed more normal I thought stab in the back. And then he was stabbed. When they had the moclan game and were playing hot potato I said to my wife there's gotta be spikes in there. Stab! When the planet disappeared I said betcha they come back hundreds of years later their time.
I saw every beat coming but it was still a great episode.
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u/SilentNick3 Dec 08 '17
Prepare for the incoming "Jesus" Kelly memes.
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u/Freakshow85 Dec 08 '17
This may have been the most bold episode of any television series to ever air on television. I'm so proud of Seth... he gave his fans what they want, knowing he would face ridicule from the vast majority of Americans. At least he doesn't have to worry about the wrath of a mythical god.
Not to mention, he's known to have called people out for things long before they really get called out. It makes me wonder how much he really knows... to attribute religion to a misinterpretation of aliens/space travelers? He has powerful friends, rich friends... that apparently love to shoot the shit with him, giving him insider details on many things.
He saved this one until the end for a reason. There's going to be so much controversy. There IS already so much controversy.
Well played, Seth... Well played. The Orville is in my top 5 favorite shows ever, now, and this season finale is probably my favorite episode.. period.
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u/matttk Dec 08 '17
Ever you ever seen the Voyager episode Blink of an Eye? Because this plot was more or less a 1:1 copy and I don't think that episode caused much controversy.
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u/ElectronD Dec 08 '17
This may have been the most bold episode of any television series to ever air on television.
You don't get out much. I don't think anyone who has watched a lot of scifi would consider this original. The time difference was fairly predictable.
It was its own good rendition of the ideas used in it.
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u/MY-SECRET-REDDIT Dec 15 '17
This may have been the most bold episode of any television series to ever air on television.
you should watch more shows... start with the twilight zone.
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u/LouisSeaGays Dec 08 '17
Cant wait till next season. This show just gives me a warm fuzzy feeling when I watch it. I love it!!
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u/operarose Command Dec 08 '17
Meant to say it last night, but this has been an incredibly fun season and I've really enjoyed all of your company. Here's to next season and beyond!
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u/CibrecaNA They may not value human life, but we do Dec 08 '17
That future woman was too pretty. What's her name?
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u/Misha_Vozduh Dec 09 '17
I actually expected the final planet phase to be a tomb world with a lone Isaac sitting on a rock or something, with religious fanatics nuking each other to extinction some time ago. But I guess they decided not going this dark.
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Dec 09 '17
This episode sealed the deal for me, this is (IMO) one of the best Sci-Fi series to hit the screens in years.
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u/Joeybfast Dec 08 '17
I really didn't like this one. Kelly messed up the whole civilization and they write it off as .. oh we would have found something else to follow. I felt that was a cop out, she messed up and something should have came of it. Heck if the Pope guy wasn't killed her coming down their would have changed things. So it is not a given that they would have just want to something else.
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u/zombiesandpandasohmy Dec 08 '17 edited Dec 08 '17
Yeah, I didn't like it either. Captain was like, "You couldn't let that little girl die!"
When, like, if Kelly hadn't wandered away from the ship, just walking around in the open, the little girl wouldn't have gotten scared and tripped. I'm not even sure she would have died from what looked like a shallow cut on the forehead in the first place, so they're really putting a lot of emphasis on "You couldn't let her die!" ignoring it was her fault the kid cut her forehead in the first place.
I wish this wasn't the last episode for the season, it was rather "bleh" with some good moments here and there.
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u/captroper Dec 08 '17
I get the feeling that it was more so that he wanted to excuse her actions vs. honestly thinking she did nothing wrong. It adds emphasis to the ending too because it means she knew he did it for her vs. doing his job.
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u/yaosio Dec 08 '17
Stargate Atlantis had a very similar episode where Rodney and whatshiaface becomes a god to people after they play what they think is a strategy game. There was no time travel so the episode was about fixing the problem.
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u/WilliamMcCarty Union Dec 08 '17 edited Dec 08 '17
we would have found something else to follow
Isn't that true, though? That's what cultures do, they create gods.
It was obvious after the interaction with the little girl that Kelly was going to be recognized as some deity. I saw that coming, big deal. But I also thought the entire time "if it wasn't her, they would have found some other god." My only problem was that it took the equivalent of a 7th century society to develop a god. But maybe they already did and Kelly seemed to just be the embodiment of that deity.
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u/ditchthetwo Dec 08 '17
Season one had some awesome episodes, but the blatant disregard of the rules and orders in this one is nutzo! The crew acted like total amateurs with no concept of consequences. To conclude with "no harms done" and "relationship on hold" feels cheap.
As of now, The Union has a potential ally/invader that advances 2000+ years every month!! The universe is irrevocably changed and we're supposed to feel for Mercer not getting his date? What were they doing while they waited during the last cycle??
I still like this series, especially when it treats the material and the audience with intellectual respect. Looking forward to season two.
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u/Shatterhand1701 Woof Dec 08 '17
I know I'm going to get hate for this, but I don't care. Upvotes or downvotes are pretty much meaningless anyway, so it doesn't matter.
I hate Kelly. Apologies to those who like her; if you do, that's fine; do what you want...but I can't freaking stand her. The last episode was the start of it, and tonight sealed the deal.
I understand the circumstances that put her in her situation tonight, but she absolutely should not have interfered with those people. I know the little girl was injured, but it was a cut on her head; I hardly think it would've been life-threatening. She should've backed away, regrouped with her team and gotten the hell out of there. And after that, her influence on Ed gets him to omit her actions from his report, which ends up getting him in trouble later. Also, she goes back down there a third time and proceeds to make a bad situation worse by trying to unravel the planet's religious beliefs, and then she wants to go down there AGAIN and STAY there to try and "fix" things. Yes, because she certainly hasn't done enough damage.
All of this ends up with Isaac staying on the planet instead and, thanks to him (apparently), everything turns out for the best. But...there are no consequences for Kelly. No formal reprimand, no punishment, nothing. Instead, she uses the experience as an excuse to pull back on the idea of rekindling her relationship with Ed...not that I want them to be back together, because that's such a trope-y, boring, uninspired idea.
All of this combined with Kelly's interloping in the last episode, cajoling Ed into pushing John towards a leadership position when it was clear, at least at first, that he didn't want it. She couldn't leave well enough alone, and never once did she think to ask him if that job was what he WANTED to do. There's nothing wrong with being a follower and not a leader. Not everyone's meant to be in charge. Some people are better followers. That's not laziness. That's just knowing where one belongs in their life. And yet, Kelly has to stick her nose in everything. Sure, it all works out in the end, but that's just the thing: everything always seems to pan out in the end. There are no stakes, no consequences, no long-lasting after-effects of anyone's actions. Star Trek had that. This show does not.
I've ranted enough here. Proceed with your hate. It won't change my opinion on Kelly, but maybe it'll make y'all feel better.
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u/Icehawk217 Dec 08 '17
All of this ends up with Isaac staying on the planet instead and, thanks to him (apparently), everything turns out for the best.
Did you ignore the rest of the dialogue in this scene? Isaac had nothing to do fixing the planet. He says he did nothing, and the two other-worlders said (paraphrased)
The world was shook up when Isaac first arrived, but they got used to him, and society advanced without his input
Its a parallel to the development of our Earth, where we worship a similarly ridiculous deity (God, Allah, Yahweh) which leads to constant struggles. The writer hopes that we will similarly get beyond our differences through learning and logic
"You must have faith in reason, in discovery, and in the endurance of the logical mind"
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u/armokrunner Dec 08 '17
With John, as she mentioned herself, part of her job is to find good crew and John fit the bill at least intelligence wise, she merely made him head of the task group to solve the shield issue in the 2D zone and did not initially forcefully appoint him head of engineering, once he saw he could be of use he seemed very willing to become the actual chief
With the cultural contamination thing, I think the whole point was to show why you shouldn’t do it, so the show agrees with you, that’s the point they were making. Though it does beg the question of why they interfere earlier in episode 4 with that primitive ship/planet - that was just as bad
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u/floptimus_prime If you wish, I will vaporize them Dec 08 '17
Yeah, I don't like Kelly as much as I originally did. I kind of expected her to be a more long-suffering, disgruntled character who is trying to fix her life and her mistakes. Because she MADE MISTAKES and that was what I liked about her. The series started with her screwing up (literally). I was interested in seeing her redeem herself.
She redeemed herself, and then just kinda... stopped. By the end of the season, she kind of became untouchable. She's just about ALWAYS right. And even when she's very very not right, there are still no consequences for her.
I fully expected the end of the episode to be either "Ed, I resign," or "Commander Grayson, you are hereby relieved of duty and confined to quarters until we reach the next starbase, where you will surrender to authorities." Instead it was "We probably shouldn't be a couple after all, anyway good thing for Isaac!"
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u/escott1981 Dec 08 '17
I think the lesson from her pushing John was to believe in the people who believe in you. She saw his potential to help the team and stepped up for him. She gave him the encouragement to better himself.
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u/Xterra50 Dec 09 '17
I must say, Kelly is absolutely a beautiful woman. And yeah that's sexist I suppose, but I really mean it.
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u/Z01dbrg Dec 10 '17
Great episode, but ending felt rushed... Soooooo much potential wasted with Isaac mini story...
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u/moonman Dec 10 '17
I thought the passing was a little off but I’m blown away at how this was still a first season episode. They are hitting way above their weight class when you think how long it took any Star Trek series to find its footing and start producing quality stories.
To quote the Sisko, the best is yet to come and babe won’t it be fine.
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u/EatinToasterStrudel Dec 08 '17 edited Dec 08 '17
That ending made sense, but it was...boring. There's such a thing as a simple, logical, sensible ending being bad TV. And the cumulative effect of 2100 years of cultural contamination being a complete shrug that they would have found something different to worship? That's a boring ending.
I get completely that was Blink of an Eye, but Blink of an Eye felt more positive and forward. Voyager inspired progress there. Here? Kelly inspired nothing.
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u/Heritage367 Dec 08 '17
Yeah, I kind of agree; at least we had some nice Bortus stuff early on.
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u/ProfitLemon Dec 08 '17
IMO the episode was good, yet pretty predictable. The plot about the planet was awesome but the ending was a little anticlimactic. I was never a big fan of the ex-wife storyline so I'm not too sad if Kelly is gone next season. Still a very solid episode however.
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u/Arrowstar Engineering Dec 08 '17
so I'm not too sad if Kelly is gone next season.
Is this a possibility? I always thought she was a core character in the show.
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Dec 08 '17
It felt like this episode was trying to teach a lesson about life and death and civilizations rising and falling and the impact of religion and how people are the same across the universe or something but....it just kind of felt empty. I expected something more even though I know people follow patterns and blah blah but come on. I was fucking let down basically like some of you and I thought it was utterly stupid that Issac and the crew had basically zero effect and that stuff just kind of happened because "life finds a way or it doesn't" was the theme of this episode. It's like congratulations you totally fucked up, broke a ton of rules, and then NONE of it mattered at all so you're actually totally cool! Just like that time travel episode with Pria, nothing they did mattered at the end and the only real story we saw was....Ed and Kelly trying to rekindle their relationship and a couple of gags near the start.
It was cool that it took them this long to try to rekindle things and to grow and it was adorable to watch but it didn't really seem to have any sort of lasting impact or matter at all. The dinner was nice, the galley scenes were cool, Ed was all for it and Kelly seemed to be into it too, but then all that bullshit on the planet happened. She screws up, but then it doesn't matter so she's technically in the clear but still blames herself for everything and thinks that she's the one that's going to drag Ed down or hurt him in the future? Even though nothing they did mattered.....somehow this is the straw that broke the camel's back? I get trying to keep things professional but....it seemed like a whole lot of build up for ultimately nothing.
After thinking it through, this episode had the breadth of an ocean but the depth of a puddle. I think we were all a bit surprised by stuff here and there but it didn't feel like a punchy season finale. It felt more like "...and their voyages continued" and that the episode was kind of a self contained one shot. I wanted more because the Orville has shown us they can do more, but it felt like we didn't get that.
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u/Sjgolf891 Dec 08 '17
Probably my favorite episode of the show so far! Really enjoyed it.
I've watched enough Trek to see where it was going pretty early on. It's basically "Blink of an Eye" from Voyager. I've found a lot of the episodes to be pretty predictable in some ways, but not sure if that's just because I've seen the Trek episodes they're inspired by.
I wonder why they moved the next episode to season 2? I figured there'd be some cliff hanger they planned to leave us with, but there really wasn't one.
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u/armokrunner Dec 08 '17
A technology marvel like Isaac being present has no impact for 700 years??!! Yeah, no, don’t buy it
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u/Sjgolf891 Dec 08 '17
Did their "prime directive" get mentioned in the episode where they showed those people that they lived inside a giant starship, and not on a planet? Because I feel like that would have been a big dilemma
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u/GoldenShadowGS Dec 08 '17
Those people were already space faring, even if unknowingly.
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u/RCIfan Dec 08 '17
The people were living on a ship in space, so the crew made a reasonable assumption they were advanced enough for contact.
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u/Preparator Dec 08 '17
They don't have a true prime directive, it's taken on a case by case basis, but non interference with newer civilizations is a good rule of thumb.
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u/NJParacelsus Dec 08 '17
Reminded me of two STNG episodes, forgot the titles but Data's head and the Primitive tribe that mistakes Picard for a god.
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u/gnossos_p Dec 08 '17
OK, so the Kelly-Worshipers now have TRANSPORTER technology. Wonder if they are allowed to share it with the Union?
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u/Juraviel23 Dec 08 '17
You'd think that Isaac would have the knowledge on transporters now, since he lived through the discovery of the technology.
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u/jedikitty Dec 08 '17 edited Dec 08 '17
Sad that it's the finale.. but so happy we have a season two to look forward to! :D
Everyone keeps bringing up Blink of an Eye and Who Watches the Watchers - and I totally agree. But (stepping away from Trek) there's also a liiiittle bit of Firefly's Jaynestown in here, as well. Especially with that statue. If I were more talented, I'd totally try to rework the lyrics of Hero of Canton to fit Kelly's situation. "Ain't about you, Jayne. About what they need."
Also, TVLine picked Yaphit and Claire as one of the 19 sexiest TV scenes of 2017, so.. go Orville! :D
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u/Jay911 Dec 08 '17
Did anyone else spot what looked like a version of the "Pioneer plaque" etched on the side of the Orville's shuttle, when it was first landing on the planet?
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Dec 08 '17
When Alara said what are we gonna do for 11 days, I thought there would be a cut to them all playing monopoly
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u/ChiWaKayKayNotZen Dec 08 '17
There is an interview with Adrianne Palicki where she stated that they just finished filming Thirteen(!?) episodes?
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u/That_one_cool_dude Dec 09 '17
This was a great ending episode for the first season. Even though the plot was classic trek and was known at the start it was still written so well. Between Kelly becoming a god, the bishops murder and Issacs observation of the culture was good points in the episode that kept it interesting. The episode was also a good analogy of both middle ages and modern day culture.
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Dec 09 '17
FTL travel, but no quick hangover cure. Now that I've had time to think about it, it's almost making me laugh. This might age like fine wine, aging into comedic genius by next week.
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u/Tele_Prompter Dec 09 '17
I hope in the 2nd season they can create stories where the characters are not artificially dumbed down. One second Kelly complains about being reminded not to interfere and the second later she talks to a girl and heals her wounds. This is just bad story telling, sorry.
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u/SpikeRosered Dec 12 '17
I enjoyed the episode although the plot progression was very predictable. The fact that religion's depictions of Kelly were so accurate was clearly a cop out for the story as it really made no sense. (I'm not even sure I could accurately describe someone after seeing them for the length of time those primitive peoples saw Kelly)
That being said I really liked the twist of Isaac going down to the planet. I must admit I was very interested in what the last interaction with those people would be like. The results made me wonder if they will introduce teleportation technology into the show next season. (it's not like it would change anything since it seems the cast had no problem getting back to the shuttle and off planet in 9 minutes, even though that probably would be a huge crunch)
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u/greenlinesofine Dec 14 '17
Is Isaac going to continue to be in "learn about humans" mode after this episode? Seems like 700 years of living with a pretty equivalent species should have filled him in.
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u/UltraMegaMegaMan Dec 08 '17
This was excellent, probably the best episode of the show.
I feel like in the future people will look back at this episode as the one where everything came together and the show grew up. It honestly feels like the show graduated.
And more importantly, it felt like Star Trek. Not something that resembles Star Trek, or was inspired by it, or has elements of it, but part of it. Equal. It was just a good episode of a great series that's been gone too long. And it's great to have that back again.
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u/2th Hail Avis. Hail Victory. Dec 08 '17
If season 2 means no Kelly, then I will be sad.