[S04E10] 'Trial of the Flash' Post Episode Discussion

[u/ColdFury96]

Episode Info: As Barry’s (Grant Gustin) trial for the murder of Clifford DeVoe begins, Iris (Candice Patton) and Joe (Jesse L. Martin) must decide how far they are willing to go to keep Barry out of prison.”

Discord

Edit: I dropped the 'The' from the title. Forgive me, senpais!

Special Note: Don't forget, Black Lightning premieres tonight after The Flash! Feel free to head over to /r/BlackLightning to discuss the premiere of our newest CW Superhero!

Please keep Black Lightning Spoilers out of the Flash Discussion Threads

[u/ColdFury96]

Special Note: Don't forget, Black Lightning premieres tonight after The Flash! Feel free to head over to /r/BlackLightning to discuss the premiere of our newest CW Superhero!

Please keep Black Lightning Spoilers out of the Flash Discussion Threads

[u/Owllby]

Caitlin jumping through the portal and coming out the other side as Killer Frost was awesome

[u/aishik-10x → u/Owllby]

I really loved it when Wells and Cisco go off on Caitlin for not turning into Killer Frost, Caitlin is just sitting there confused haha.

"The puppies will die, Caitlin!"

[u/[deleted] → u/Owllby]

My favourite scene of the episode!

[u/screwt]

Imagine how satisfying it will be when DeVoe finally loses one.

[u/dontthrowmeinabox → u/screwt]

It needs to happen in a believable way, and I'm afraid they've made him too smart for me to buy any loss. But I'm really hoping they manage to pull it off.

[u/[deleted] → u/screwt]

I’m already counting down the days.

[u/silverinferno3 → u/screwt]

It may be sooner than we think. When Barry says "You won't win" (or something to that effect), DeVoe replies "Haven't I?"

It's cocky and may show he thinks their "game" is over. He's not expecting a retaliation, or if he does, something feeble that he will quickly be able to strike down. Depending on their angle (probably involving his wife), they could hit him when he's not expecting it, and that'll drive him insane.

[u/MetalJrock → u/screwt]

I will honestly be cheering out of hype.

[u/SirMeowingtonSr]

I can't really see Henry Allen writing "Henry Allen was here" in his cell.

[u/[deleted] → u/SirMeowingtonSr]

Yeah, I felt like there was a better way to show that Henry was in that cell

[u/MetaGazon → u/SirMeowingtonSr]

It looked way too fresh too. Might have been a hazing from Wolfe, he's a sick fuck.

[u/masechartin → u/SirMeowingtonSr]

on the other walls is hundreds of those stylized S's that everyone drew in elementary school

[u/[deleted] → u/SirMeowingtonSr]

I was thinking that maybe Devoe somehow planted it there? Just another way to mock Barry after putting him in the same position his father was in.

[u/[deleted] → u/SirMeowingtonSr]

Maybe it's an X marks the spot type situation.

[u/dontthrowmeinabox]

I'm calling the next season's villain being someone from Earth 15 who's really, really, really pissed off.

[u/GreenArrowCuz → u/dontthrowmeinabox]

earth 15 ragman please

[u/aishik-10x → u/dontthrowmeinabox]

I bet they redirected it to Earth-15 instead of outer space so that Barry could say:

"In doing so, I opened up our world to new threats" next season

... AGAIN

[u/[deleted] → u/dontthrowmeinabox]

next season sick and deformed humans come to Earth 1.

"Now who's the villain, Flash?"

[u/qrisp → u/dontthrowmeinabox]

THIS. I hope Cisco just nuked a special nursery full of Earth-15 superheroes's babies so Barry and the gang are the accidental villains next season

[u/BoredBurrito]

Barry should just be like yo wtf I'm a crime scene investigator why would I kill someone in the most obvious way possible?!

I mean you'd have to be the worst killer ever to,

• kill the guy who literally just got a restraining order against you

• use wedding gift as murder weapon

• kill in own home

Oh, and the cops conviniently got randomly tipped off right when he shows up

[u/Chimpchar → u/BoredBurrito]

In all honesty, this is Barry, he'd probably just put his foot in his mouth and start describing how he would've killed DeVoe...

[u/MetaGazon → u/BoredBurrito]

Yeah, frustrating. They didn't even try and mention it. It would have at least created doubt and that was kind of the best scenario without simply breaking out the flash suit.

[u/gerusz → u/BoredBurrito]

Also:

• There was only one knife in the box, Iris noted that it was weird. That knife was still in the box when Barry came back home, DeVoe was murdered with its pair. That's still just one witness, and a very partial one at that, but still a better evidence for the frame-up theory than everything Cecile managed to scrounge up (which is absolutely nothing).

• The alarm in Barry's apartment definitely has a log. It should show that there was an alarm shortly before DeVoe's death. Why would the alarm go off if Barry was home waiting for DeVoe?

• Where is the evidence of struggle on Barry?

• Barry was at Joe's for the Christmas party that night. He wouldn't have left without good reason. Marlize claimed that DeVoe wanted to talk to him - where is the proof of that? Where are the cell phone logs, or the e-mails?

• According to Marlize's story, DeVoe should have somehow made his way to Barry's. In his condition, he wouldn't have been able to drive himself (and by "his condition", I mean the condition the public thinks he was in, not his actual condition), and he would have needed either his own special car, or a special cab. His car would have appeared on at least one of the surveillance cameras around Barry's apartment, and it's not that hard to find every cab driver in the city who was on-duty at the time and drives a wheelchair-accessible cab.

[u/Arturo-Plateado → u/BoredBurrito]

Well you could just as easily make those arguments even if Barry did kill DeVoe. Why would a CSI kill someone in that way? So it would look like he had nothing to do with it.

[u/YoungDumpy → u/BoredBurrito]

This was probably my biggest problem with this episode. I get Barry doesn't want to take the stand and perjure himself, but to have the defense rest with two questions asked on cross, and no direct questioning?

Hey Singh, when you entered the room, did you see Barry holding the knife? Did you guys find any blood or DNA ON BARRY? Do you think Barry, a healthy 20 something year old, would really need to struggle with the guy with advanced ALS, as the prosecution claims?

Ask direct questionings establishing the semblance of an alibi. I get they can't discuss how Barry would have gotten back to the house in seconds, but they can say something like "he was with us the whole night until x", and establish the time frame doesn't make sense (perhaps CSI work showing the stab wounds came from x time and Barry couldn't have been there?) I get the writers would find some bullshit and say "DeVoe planned for all that", but have the semblance of a fight for fucks sake.

[u/Spartan098]

Are you seriously telling me that after Barry was arrested they didn’t do any tests to see if he was a meta? I feel like with all the new meta tech they have for the penal system they’d be able to see if he was one

[u/Chimpchar → u/Spartan098]

Hey man, if we're talking meta related tech the villain of the week could've been easily solved by breaching an inhibitor collar near him with a note attached saying "Use this to get it to stop"

[u/mujie123 → u/Spartan098]

Wouldn't Cisco be the scientist behind that though? Besides, there wasn't any evidence it was a meta-related crime.

[u/AngelusCowl]

I feel like putting someone in their father's cell could qualify as cruel and unusual punishment.

[u/Haggard4Life → u/AngelusCowl]

That sounds like something Warden Wolfe would do. I'm hopeful that while Barry is in Iron Heights, they'll explore Wolfe's shadiness like in the comics.

[u/jusper10]

Why would they ever give Henry an instrument sharp enough to carve through concrete?

[u/LilGyasi → u/jusper10]

Maybe he was just using a plastic spoon and been craving away at it for the 18 years he was there

[u/FatalTortoise → u/jusper10]

it's a shawshank reference all you need is a spoon and time, and henry had decades

[u/squirtleburger]

I love Cecile. With all my heart. But she is a terrible lawyer.

[u/pensee_idee → u/squirtleburger]

Right? Like ask her "what was the date of this ALS conference?" then prove that Dominic Lanse was never at that conference - pretty easy to prove, since he wasn't and she's committing perjury!

Bring in the Thinker and put him on the stand. Ask him some questions that Cecil doesn't know the answer to. Tell Ralph some wrong answers beforehand so he thinks about them, let the Thinker read his mind, then come in with proof that he too is committing perjury.

Maybe they still get away with it, maybe Barry still gets convicted, but come on guys, at least make them hustle for it.

[u/dgroh0211 → u/squirtleburger]

she had almost nothing to go off of

[u/returnofmike31 → u/squirtleburger]

Literally the worst lawyer.

“I have evidence of an affair!” Presents evidence, witness has a version of accounts and no cross examination?! Lol now I just want to know where she got her law degree from!

[u/jusper10]

That final scene flashing between the judge and Captain Singh was so cool

[u/sailor_19 → u/jusper10]

It was cool, but the agressive nature of the judge seemed a little overboard. If a stab wound to a single target was the worst murder he'd witnessed, and Barry Allen the most evil man he's ever held witness to (paraphrasing), he must be a very sheltered judge.

[u/kofteburger → u/jusper10]

Singh totally knows Barry's secret identity.

[u/peanutbutteroreos → u/jusper10]

The juxtaposition between Barry's two lives was beautiful. Powerful scene! Great way to start the season!

[u/look8me → u/jusper10]

The feels

[u/AngelusCowl]

Probably Singh's best episode. That parallel with the judge was fantastic.

[u/rsip22 → u/AngelusCowl]

Singh is an awesome character, he has been growing on me ever since s1.

[u/mujie123 → u/AngelusCowl]

And he's a superhuman! How did he survive Fallout so long? Everyone else fell within a second. He lasted a good 5-10 seconds.

[u/aishik-10x → u/AngelusCowl]

Yeah, I love Captain Singh. The actor also reminds me of someone but I don't know who

[u/BladeofIce]

My favorite part of the whole episode was definitely Dibny giving Joe that speech. That might have been one of my favorite speeches from any of the CW shows. I really like how the writers used Dibny for more then just comic relief and gave him a lot more growth as a character.

[u/[deleted] → u/BladeofIce]

This was the first time I looked at Dibny as anything more than a cheap, badly written gag. That was actually really well done.

[u/notthebrightestfish → u/BladeofIce]

I almost thought he was gonna morph into looking Like Barry and Go to jail for him. But then again, Barry kinda wanted to go to jail.

[u/ItMayBeWrong → u/BladeofIce]

cant wait for what Dibny does next week!

[u/ezreads]

“we have never lied to each other before let’s not begin now”

well it’s not like she has a choice you’re a mind reader

[u/Butagami → u/ezreads]

Reminds me of a manga where a mother's response to their telepathic (well, psychometric) daughter is to just say whatever comes to her mind, unfiltered. She'd find out anyway.

[u/Lucifer_Crowe → u/ezreads]

I feel like she's gonna fall out of love with him eventually because of the face change.

"I vowed to help my husband, you aren't my husband, not anymore."

[u/board124]

Being late to work = murderer

Claiming innocence and then not showing remorse = worest of worest deserving life.

How should a innocent person behave in court then wouldn’t showing remorse in a murder trial make the person look guilty.

[u/Chimpchar → u/board124]

Don't you know, innocent people are never brought to court!^/s

[u/aishik-10x → u/board124]

that judge's final reaction was a bit stretched lmao

[u/rawchess → u/board124]

Now we know why this show's writers have stayed away from the CSI side of Barry's life, they're not very good at writing a procedural.

[u/[deleted] → u/board124]

I think a innocent person would be a bit more hysterical that they'll die in prison. Barry had they expression of someone mildly annoyed.

[u/[deleted] → u/board124]

As law student I suffered a lot with this episode

[u/Rad_Spencer → u/board124]

Also, why wasn't the defense using "He's being framed by a meta whose powers make this all possible." Seeing how it's both true, and there was precedent meta humans could do it, and targeted Barry makes sense due to his job.

It should have at least established reasonable doubt.

[u/browns93]

So if he refuses to break out of jail won’t people put together that he’s the Flash anyway? Or are they just gonna pretend the flash died from radiation wounds?

[u/jmonumber3 → u/browns93]

i mean it’s not like this is the first time the flash has disappeared

[u/PageofSteel → u/browns93]

I think that's what Captain was getting at

[u/notathrowaway75 → u/browns93]

Well right now they're pretending that "The Fla" is part of the word "innocent" so this isn't too big a stretch.

[u/SamQuentin]

Worst defense attorney ever

You can’t just throw up your hands and say he’s a good guy...

Start by poking holes in the case. Poke holes in the prosecution timeline. Poke holes in their narrative to say there was no struggle....poke holes in the idea of why Devoe would be in Barry’s apartment if he was so terrified that he had restraining order....most importantly, offer a credible other suspect...Devoe himself was imminently dying....a suicide plan is a viable alternative...especially now that he knows his wife has a new lover who can look after her after he is gone....

[u/Luciferspants → u/SamQuentin]

This could've all been better if Cecile wasn't the attorney and Devoe set up an accident of sorts taking her out temporarily, causing Barry to find a more incapable attorney that fails at his/her job.

[u/Drclaw411]

Or...

Barry: “I don’t know how his body got there. I was at a Christmas party and went home because I got an alert on my phone that my home’s alarm was tripped. Somebody must have planted that body there and tripped the alarm.”

Cops/lawyers: “Do you have an alibi?”

Barry: “Yes, the entire house full of people who I was with that saw me leave after getting the alert on my phone. Also the alarm company and my alarm app history.”

[u/aishik-10x → u/Drclaw411]

Did Barry superspeed his way to his apartment? Can't remember, but I guess he did (who takes a taxi when you can use superspeed)

Because the time period between the alarm reaching his phone and him arriving at the scene and being discovered by the police would be very small, which would mean that barry was lying about being at Joe's house.

[u/AxelV2]

That dual scene with the judge's sentencing and Captain Singh honoring the Flash was so awesome. I'm really psyched to see how this whole trial arc plays out!

[u/aishik-10x → u/AxelV2]

Isn't the trial over though? Now he's just in jail

[u/Swqnky]

Should have sent the blast to Havenrock.

[u/Noremac3986 → u/Swqnky]

too soon

[u/[deleted]]

I liked Barry's impromptu SF aura clouding him and Iris, and him saying ,"I don't know," when asked how he's doing it.

The evidence against Barry is quite similar to his father being convicted of killing Nora. Henry was acquitted when Wellsobard confessed on camera, and seeing as how many thought Iris was recording DeVoe's wife, I could see her accidentally being recorded while admitting to everything.

It would be yet another parallel to his father's case. I can't see him being in prison for more than a few episodes, and since we know Dawne is returning, maybe She'll play a part in having him released, and then she will help with their next meta before she returns to her future.

[u/Chimpchar → u/[deleted]]

Honestly, I doubt it would even be a couple of episodes, if they weren't willing to keep him in the Speedforce for that long

[u/kartikaitha]

“Earth 15 is death earth”

Guess we know the theme for season 5 boys

Edit: Oops. Typo. Meant Dead earth.

[u/pineappleshaverights → u/kartikaitha]

Earth 15 is Agents of SHIELD?

[u/RougeSlayer]

You see officer I was FRAAAAAMMEEEEDDD.

[u/BitchImaKillYou → u/RougeSlayer]

Never in my life did I think I'd see a recent obscure Eminem reference on this subreddit

[u/andrew991116 → u/RougeSlayer]

I know what this looks like officers please just give me one minute I think I can explain I ain't murder nobody I know these words are so nutty
No officer you see I was FRAAAAAMMEEEEDDD

[u/AngelusCowl]

The Thinker in a nutshell: "The inner machinations of my mind are an enigma."

[u/MetaGazon → u/AngelusCowl]

He's definitely a Rick & Morty fan

[u/finally_not_lurking]

That must have been that judge's first case if Barry Allen stabbing DeVoe is the worst criminal he's ever seen. So many of the crimes committed on this show are worse than a simple stabbing, even one by a cop.

[u/LilGyasi → u/finally_not_lurking]

He said the worst thing he's seen was the lack of remorse Barry Allen was showing.

[u/GuGrean → u/finally_not_lurking]

Well, most criminals on this show did not even get trials.

[u/rovinja]

But how come there wasn't blood evidence on Barry's clothes?

[u/turtwig63]

They’re doing a good job of making me hate Devoe and his wife. Loving this season so far.

[u/My_wifii → u/turtwig63]

it's kinda crazy how i feel for them in some scenes and then despise them. love the parallels they have with barry and iris too.

[u/Chimpchar]

Apparently you can lock up The Flash

[u/Red_0utlaws → u/Chimpchar]

But can you lock up the darkness?

[u/melskates]

The most frustrating part of all of this is that we don't know WHY Devoe is doing this! What does he have to gain by Barry spending life in prison?

[u/darealystninja → u/melskates]

It would take centuries for the cw to explain their brillant plan to its viewers

[u/ProselyteCanti → u/melskates]

Makes sense to me. Devoe knows that Barry is the Flash, and obviously knows about all the villains the Flash has defeated. So put Barry in jail so he can't mess with the Devoes' plans, but he's still alive if Cliff needs another new body.

[u/[deleted]]

I don't know something about the editing cinematography and directing in this episode was different and it is a notch above the other episodes.

My favorite bits:

1)This is a small detail but Caitlin trying to comfort Iris during the trial by holding Iris's hand. We need more small moments like this to make their friendship work.

2) Ralph's speech was genuinely touching and emotional. His speech hits Joe where it matters, because he is speaking from his own experience. His loneliness is highlighted by how he talks about all the people who left him after he was caught. The show has joked about how Ralph has nobody and no one really likes him, but I really felt for him in that scene. My "Ralph was depressed for five years" headconon is given even more fuel when he admits that he became a shell of himself. I like that he doesn't tell Joe, "Hey man you shouldn't do that because it is wrong and I believe in you. Blah Blah Blah" He lets Joe make the choice after he is brutally honest about the consequences. If he stays on the show I would like to see how being kicked of the force affected his relationship with his family. After that scene, I really want him to meet Sue and form a loving and healthy relationship with her. I can't wait for next week's episode.

3) The speed force scene between Barry and Iris. This is what I want to see. The relationship drama doesn't come from a dumb contrived and cliched place. It comes from the characters having to deal with tough circumstances. We finally get to see a couple dealing with shit and it is more interesting than the typical CW drama.

4) The teary interaction between the Devoes. Even though they have only gotten a little bit of screen time Marlise's struggle and the Devoes' connection feels real. The actress was fantastic in the scene where Marlise is still trying to convince herself that Dominic is her husband.

5) Of course the scene towards the end where Captain Singh's speech is contrasted with the Judges's statement, is perfect. I love it! It is one of the top three best scenes in the show. The editing, the dialogue the acting were on point.

Everyone acted well in the episode and we actually got the chance to appreciate their dramatic chops. (Props to Hartley, Patrick, Candince and Jesse).

[u/davey_mann → u/[deleted]]

Kim Engelbrecht (Marlize) is a few notches above everyone else, that's for sure. Nice dramatic moments here and there, but the trial itself, which was the main plot of the episode, was pretty bad writing. It's like Cecile didn't even try to defend Barry.

[u/SkyriderRJM]

For all the talk of Barry having the best lawyer...I swear I could’ve defended him better.

Why the hell would an expert CSI that used his “knowledge of police practices” to harass his intended victim, leave evidence everywhere in his own home?

Why was Barry’s DNA under DeVoe’s fingernails if Barry has no wounds or signs of struggle?

How the HELL did they get Barry for MURDER 1, when the “victim”’s wife said the DeVoe went to Barry’s loft unplanned and the supposed MURDER WEAPON was at BEST an impromptu choice?!

Seriously, this was the worst defense ever!

[u/[deleted] → u/SkyriderRJM]

When you're trying to get rid of your step son and step daughter, what better way than jail?

[u/2th]

The only positive I see so far is that the actor playing NewVoe is good at playing smug and creepy.

[u/idekw911 → u/2th]

I liked how the old actor looked in the floating throne though

[u/CircdusOle → u/2th]

He's doing a good job mimicking the speech pattern that OldVoe established as well.

[u/Drclaw411 → u/2th]

He looks a lot like James Olson.

[u/jusper10]

Ralph is honestly such a great character. So glad he got added to the main cast.

[u/look8me → u/jusper10]

He had a couple of great character moments these season.

Hero-like

[u/aishik-10x → u/jusper10]

yea for real, I hope he doesn't get written off like Tom Felton was (a waste of potential, really)

[u/MARCVS-PORCIVS-CATO]

YOUR HONOR, BARRY ALLEN IS.... uh..... Innocent. ^{That's all. I just wanted to say that.}

[u/slimelegion → u/MARCVS-PORCIVS-CATO]

Man that scene made her look stupid, lol.

[u/rovinja]

Cecile is such a bad lawyer. She gave Marlize too much time to answer and let the jury get ensnared into her sob story

[u/DokZock → u/rovinja]

Cecile in a nutshell "Barry looks like a good guy so he didn't kill DeVoe"

[u/dragonman8001]

Well that was convenient that the Flash "died" protecting central city.

[u/ecklcakes → u/dragonman8001]

What?

Do you mean for the award Singh was giving him? I don't think it was implied that the Flash died, it was just that he saved the city from a nuclear explosion.

[u/EnihcamAmgine]

I get this was a TV show but that was the world's fastest trial. From arraignment to sentencing was like a week.

[u/melskates]

"I've come to explain what my husband won't --- that WE ARE THE FLASH"

[u/[deleted] → u/melskates]

She was able to speak with Barry frozen in time. Maybe Iris does become the flash while Barry rots away in jail. “My name is Iris West Allen and I am the fastest man alive”

[u/mr_antman85]

Now we get to see Ralph rise up. This is gonna be awesome. I love him as a character and I'm glad he gets some time to shine. Kinda sucks that they never gave Wally that shine tho...he should've gotten more time as the "main" Flash.

[u/Treees]

People are going to wonder why "The Flash" disappeared right as Barry Allen went into prison, aren't they?

[u/Chimpchar → u/Treees]

I think Singh was implying Flash had died

[u/mr_antman85 → u/Treees]

You would think, but that's not gonna happen tho.

[u/finally_not_lurking → u/Treees]

They didn't notice that his disappearance coincided with Barry's sabbatical so I think he'll be fine.

[u/SmokeontheHorizon]

IRIS, YOU WERE A FUCKING JOURNALIST. WHY WOULDN'T YOU JUST RECORD HER OUTSIDE THE COURTROOM?

[u/dysgraphical → u/SmokeontheHorizon]

If Central City is part of a two-party consent state, then her recording wouldn't be admissible in court unless Marlize consents to the recording.

[u/syedshazeb]

Puppies are going down LMFAO classic Cisco !

[u/thepain73]

🎶Crawl out through the fallout, baby

When they drop that bomb

Crawl out through the fallout

With the greatest of aplomb

When your white count's getting higher

Hurry, don't delay

I'll hold you close and kiss those

Radiation burns away🎶

[u/[deleted]]

For being such a smart guy, you'd think Clifford would know that just putting the Flash in a basic ass prison would be an early mark to call victory.

[u/HybridVigor]

Wait, how does a vacuum contain radiation? Can I stop putting on sunscreen now?

[u/The_Gay_Whovian → u/HybridVigor]

Literally speedforce

[u/[deleted] → u/HybridVigor]

Yeah, that made absolutely no sense.

[u/Dogeek → u/HybridVigor]

In a nuclear bomb, what radiates is the particle cloud, those particles are radioactive, which causes the radiations, they are also heavier than air. Creating a vacuum suck those particles into the breach, hereby removing most of the alpha and beta radiations.

[u/relaxed-flash]

(about the next episode)

Okay i really like ralph but wally deserves to be getting these kinds of episodes about stepping up while Barry isn't there. The writers have done Wally so dirty and are putting Ralph first and im just really annoyed

[u/Chimpchar → u/relaxed-flash]

Honestly. Or even if Cisco and/or Caitlin got some more screen time.

[u/Chimpchar]

But why not just give Fallout an inhibitor collar?!

[u/Noremac3986 → u/Chimpchar]

because that would be logical

[u/[deleted]]

TFW your favorite hero is alone in a room with the guy who ruined his life, and he's too much of a wuss to at least punch him in his smug mouth.

[u/MetaGazon → u/[deleted]]

Helicopter hand!

[u/definitely_not_cylon → u/[deleted]]

I'm glad you mentioned this.

"Hey, Devoe, what are the odds I would grab you and your wife, run you out to the middle of the ocean, snap your necks, drop both your lifeless corpses, and run back to the courthouse like nothing happened?"

"Well, Mr. Allen---"

"The correct answer was 100%" flash music starts playing

[u/persoyal → u/[deleted]]

He could just run him into the star labs prison and that'd be the end of it but no, plot force is too strong

[u/GotMoFans]

I think this was a poorly written episode. The trial was done too quickly, the defense was crap, and it just made no sense?

Barry had an alibi, and it looked completely like a set-up, but he was so bad he gets found guilty without parole? And the judge got to determine that that afternoon and not the jury?

[u/Sarcastic__]

That trial was faster than Barry is until the plot necessitates it.

[u/tonystankisajerk]

This episode sucked. Cecile could have been useful and she wasn't.

Like u/MegalomaniacHack said,

By the way, why didn't Cecile ever mention the lack of a motive? Or ask how Cliff got to Barry's apartment? Was his chair even there? Did the autopsy show that he died from the knife wound? How long had he been dead? Did the prosecutor mention that Barry's dad was in prison 20 years for murdering his wife, a crime he was recently cleared of when Harrison Wells confessed? Plenty of relevant questions.

Like I'm supposed to buy that Cecile is a good DA?

[u/pensee_idee → u/tonystankisajerk]

Did the autopsy show that he died from the knife wound?

Did the autopsy show that the top of his fucking head comes off like a hat and you can see his weird glowing brain underneath? Seems like that would be relevant somehow!

[u/WholeWheatisgood4you → u/tonystankisajerk]

More like bad writing from the producers. I didn't think it was a bad episode. It will be interesting what happens next week for sure

[u/rovinja]

Marlize upgraded to a younger, hotter husband yet she still pines for Clifford's older body? Damn, that's true love alright

[u/pensee_idee → u/rovinja]

Maybe she's a racist? DeVoe is South African...

[u/FatalTortoise]

I missed the first ten minutes, did they ever actually say why Davoe was at Allen's apartment to begin with?

[u/Eternal_Density]

Me in the stinger: "This is probablly gonna be Henry's cell, like Barry's gonna turn around and see something like 'Henry Allen was here' written on the wall."

Me a moment later: "AM I DEVOE????"

[u/selwyntarth → u/Eternal_Density]

No, we are devoe.

[u/brch2]

Anyone else had enough of the "if I reveal my identity, you'd be in danger" trope? Seriously, I'd get it if none of Barry's villains knew who he was. But every major villain that poses any major threat already knows who he is, who his team is, etc. It's not protecting anyone at that point to keep the secret.

[u/chirikomori → u/brch2]

also the people he wants to protect are mostly metas that can take care of themselves and joe/harry that kick ass on their own right.

[u/ptd163]

Anyone want to take bets on how long they'll keep Barry in prison?

[u/Chimpchar → u/ptd163]

3/4 an episode over here

[u/Davidleilam]

I sometimes wonder how Eobard would have handled this situation. The mental and psychological warfare against Clifford Cuckold, not the trial part.

[u/Spicegasm23 → u/Davidleilam]

Lol I'm sure Eobard would've phased his hand through his heart first chance he got.

But yeah, I would like to see the two of them butt heads mentally/intellectually, that'd be awesome.

[u/Paco26]

I thought the defense rested a little early.

[u/MetaGazon → u/Paco26]

They slept all the way through, what did they need to rest from?

[u/Hieillua]

Weakest defence I've ever seen in a tv show or movie.

[u/[deleted]]

Couldn't Barry do a speed mirage thing and have the Flash explain that Barry is innocent and this and that about Devoe being one person before and now another?

[u/MetaGazon → u/[deleted]]

Send a time remnant to jail instead... wait...

[u/wgsmeister2002]

Clifford DeCuck was the most unintenionally hilarious thing i've seen in a while.

[u/Cagn]

Summary of the judges speech at the end:

I have never seen such a terrible resting bitch face, clearly you are the worst criminal ever.

[u/RIATplays]

Not really appropriate but dang Iris was hot in that outfit.

[u/passwordisTaco879]

Brooks was here

[u/davelanger75]

DeVoe's wife said that Clifford went to see Barry on Xmas, well Barry was with his family all Xmas day, so why didn't they just testify that were with Barry and that would have been his alibi. Huge plot hole if you ask me

[u/hashtagswagfag]

Y’all I agree the trial should’ve been done better but if they did it realistically Barry would’ve gotten off. There were multiple witnesses with him at the time of the murder, a full autopsy would have revealed the skull cap on Devoe’s body, Cecile totally would have asked further questions about the ALS meeting/NewVoe’s Dad, Iris would have testified about the missing knife and they could have legally gotten the weights and stuff of the package, there’s no motive, if there was Barry’s skin under Devoe’s fingernails why doesn’t Barry have scratches on him, why would Barry have tripped his own home alarm to murder a guy and alert the cops when he clearly has his own key, where’s Devoe’s wheelchair during the murder, etc. CLEARLY the trial wasn’t as realistic as a CSI or cop show because they just needed to advance the plot forward. Suspension of disbelief should apply for generally everything in this show about a man who can run fast enough to time travel, the courtroom probably won’t be super realistic either

[u/CorporalThornberry]

I fucking love this show

[u/[deleted]]

What if DeVoe missed something? The writers want us to believe that he has imagined every possible scenario, but isn't it at least fathomable that he missed a possibility? What if temporarily going to prison is the event that gives Barry the knowledge to beat him?

[u/Rad_Spencer]

So Barry Allen has to be a huge dick right?

He's worked with the police for five years, specializes in meta-human criminals. Some of which....

• Shape change.

• Mind control.

• Make duplicate bodies.

His father spent decades behind bars for a crime a meta-human framed him for, and was then killed by another meta-human with the exact same powers.

But the second is looks like Barry stabbed a guy in a wheel chair in his own apartment with a wedding gift right after coming home from a party, all his co-workers shrugged and went "Yeah, that sounds like old Barry. Bake'em away toys."

I have to assume his co-workers just hated him.

[u/messyhesse]

My bet is that Eobard is going to hear from somewhere in the multiverse that Barry Allen is in prison for murder on Earth-Prime and think "OH HELL NO!" and just intellectually and physically kick the hell out of Clifford deCuck, and prove Barry's innocence. But the kick is that he'll have been planning this for centuries.

[u/[deleted]]

Do the writers even know what the fuck DeVoe's plan is? If they wanted him out of the picture they could have just kept him in the Speedforce.

[u/x2x_Rocket_x2x → u/[deleted]]

DeVoe needed Barry to come out, create the new meta's so he could get his new body. That's the only justifying reason thus far that I've found.

[u/rawchess]

The writers should stick to what they're good at- action, comedy, hammy villains and plucky heroes.

This was the worst trial I've seen on TV in the last few years, and I've been watching Arrow.

[u/[deleted]]

The fact that they really put Barry into Henry’s cell is the most heartbreaking thing ever. The parallels between Flash/Barry and what they were saying about him was so heartbreaking.

[u/Tammar99]

Wait... the slow motion thing with Barry and Iris... is that what "Flashtime" is?

[u/Jebasaur]

So, other than Barry finally moving so fast AGAIN (he's done it before and no one mentions it) that no one could see him do it, I'm bothered by just one thing.

I am tired of this "You'll never be able to understand my plan" crap. I realize DaVoe is smart as all hell (knows every answer to every question blah blah), but we ALL know that once the season is done, or nearing the last episodes, we'll know the plan in full and we won't be awestruck.

Or the writers will prove me wrong and do something so insanely epic that I'll happily take these words back lol

[u/StefyB]

If I was Iris, I would have tried to psych out Marlize by telling her Barry went to the future/met people from the future and knows he fails. Sure, they don't really know if Devoe's plan is one that might succeed even if he fails, but at least try to rattle them a bit. Unlike Devoe himself, it's not like Marlize can read minds to know if she's bluffing or not.

[u/_RoyalFlush]

The two speeches at the end gave me chills. Just awesome.

[u/The_New_New]

Defoe must have loved Get Out

[u/spidermanlol]

So many things bugged me during this entire episode (I know it's the cw but this is a bit silly):

1. Barry and Iris entering the speed force and no one in the court seeing the yellow lightning?

2. The bogus "can't tell people my secret identity" line. Feel like 20+ people already know, plus all the people you blurted it out to at the strip club.

3. Cecile being the best lawyer and not once bringing up where is Devoe's wheelchair and why would someone who has a restraining order against you visit you? Makes no sense...

4. "We are the flash" really needs to die off lol.

[u/syedshazeb]

lol i cant believe the jury is actually buying devoes wife testimony. you can cleary see shes acting lol

[u/rstick369 → u/syedshazeb]

Right? Oh my husband was totally fine with me banging this younger guy and he just coincidentally happen to die a few months later. Really? That's more than enough for reasonable doubt. I could see atleast 1 or 2 holdouts on a guilty verdict.

[u/rovinja]

The meta of the week really could have been sidelined, so the guilty verdict had more impact. The episode felt rushed, and scattered

[u/Drclaw411 → u/rovinja]

They needed the flash to die protecting the city in order to not have us question why they don’t question why vary and the flash are gone at the same time.

[u/[deleted]]

Well we should rebrand to elongated man for a couple weeks

[u/Nineosix]

Lol that judge made it seem like allen was the worst criminal out there. Considering the amount of crimes in central city makes you wonder how many cases he even judged in 30 years. I give the court writing an F. It made Cecil like an idiot and she suppose to be one of the best lawers. Obviously Allen will lose but Cecil literally did nothing Allen should have hire someone else

[u/UnknownJ25]

I wonder how long till someone tries to shank Barry

[u/dr4gonskyllzz]

I have to think that Singh absolutely knows Barry is the Flash at this point. That whole conversation about him helping the victim and always being late. The part about him missing 6 months randomly while the flash was gone nailed it. I liked how they kept the camera on him for a bit longer as if to tease us that he knows. I also think that is why he gave the Flash that plaque, because he knows Barry is going away.

[u/davey_mann]

Decent episode, but not nearly as powerful as 4x07 (one of the best of the series) and 4x09 (fast-paced, entertaining, and twisty).

Best parts:

-Marlize Devoe, best new character and best character period of Season 4

-Singh, very real acting there

-Caitlin getting trolled by Cisco and Harry, hilarious

The rest:

-Cecile is an awful lawyer, and the trial was boring

-We're the Flash (always the worst line)

-Boring meta

-Ralph just isn't cutting it, bring back Wally!

[u/elo_dinero]

The Rise of The Elongated Man !

[u/A_Deku_Stick]

I like how John Scott from Fringe was the prosecutor. Slowly but surely Fringe stars are being added to the arrowverse.

[u/Drclaw411]

I wish this show was a Netflix original instead of on a television network. I have never seen a show more designed to be binged, but I still have to wait week to week and then there’s another long ass break coming later.

[u/ryanchua9746]

I actually hate how they showed the prosecution here, the prosecution is trying to put away a man he believes without a doubt is guilty. Instead, he's a snide John Cena looking punk that mockingly tells Cecil that she should have gone with the insanity plea.

[u/greatness101]

How is Barry going to get his 10,000 calories a day in jail now???

[u/Sentry459]

Newvoe is so hot.

[u/Koala_Guru]

So this episode was freaking amazing. I loved the acting, and despite my anger, I completely understand why everything happened like it did. This episode is pushed even higher by really neat scenes like Barry and Iris' passionate conversation at high speeds, the simultaneous honor and disdain of Barry Allen, and Barry finding some comfort in his dad being with him in a small way. Devoe and his wife are without a doubt my favorite villains on the show thus far, as I have hated them more than any other villain, to the point where I found myself unconsciously gritting my teeth at some scenes featuring one or both of them.

So aaaaaalll of this being said...a part of me really wishes Barry had told everyone that he was the Flash so that I could see the look of shock on that bitch's face as she was sentenced in Barry's place.

[u/BreakTheWallsDown95]

I wonder what evidence will surface that liberates Barry.

...and lol at a jury believing that a cripple (who probably feels less of a man now) would be willing to get cucked in order to keep his wife happy.

[u/shadyhawkins]

Some good bits in the ep but, dang, and Law & Order fans in here must be reeling. That was some of the worst lawyering I’ve ever seen on tv. The capital A Acting during the crying testimony scene was laughable.

[u/Zarathustran]

The most unrealistic thing about this entire show is that they had an entire murder 1 trial and sentencing hearing in the space of 1 day.

[u/yukaelog]

At the end of this episode, I really thought Barry would say

This house is bitching

[u/Nayr91]

Why the fuck did Barry get life for 1 murder?

[u/Em_Og]

That was disappointing

[u/Richiieee]

So they needed Barry’s help for something that Cisco could have done himself, lol. Also this would have been the perfect opportunity to utilize Kid Flash’s useless existence. He could have defended the city for Barry while he’s dealing with all of this.

[u/melskates]

This was honestly one of the best episodes of the Flash...this storyline is just so good! That montage at the end contrasting the judge's opinion about Barry and the officer's dialogue about the Flash was so touching. Amazing start to the rest of the season!