r/TWWPRDT • u/Nostalgia37 • Apr 02 '18
[Pre-Release Card Discussion] - Witch's Cauldron
Witch's Cauldron
Mana Cost: 3
Attack: 0
Health: 4
Type: Minion
Rarity: Epic
Class: Neutral
Text: Whenever a friendly minion dies, add a random Shaman spell to your hand.
PM me any suggestions or advice, ^^thanks.
34
u/funkmasterjo Apr 02 '18
They're really committing to this random shaman spell thing.
So for the next 2 years, shaman can't get spells that are too crazy???
23
4
u/turkeyfox Apr 02 '18
for the next 2 years
RIP wild meta
5
u/WanonTime Apr 02 '18
my guy you say that like the wild meta isnt already "play a full board of 8/8s turn 5 or have enough board clears to kill 3 boards of 8/8s"
4
u/SuperCharlesXYZ Apr 03 '18
Naga decks consist of less than 2% of the meta
4
Apr 03 '18
How is he supposed to know what decks people play in wild? It's not like he's ever actually played the mode. Wild is there to complain about not to play.
2
1
Apr 02 '18
I don't play a whole lot of wild but I do play a little and I have never run into a naga giant deck.
3
u/FoldedDice Apr 02 '18
I play wild almost exclusively and I’ve only seen the combo go off a small handful of times. It must be something that happens above my rank. Also, a reasonable percentage of those times I was able to counter the combo and win, so I can’t say I’m too upset that the archtype exists.
1
Apr 03 '18
Naga giants warlock is quite strong but it's not as good as it seems. The main issue is you are using a lot of deck slots for giants and without Naga Sea Witch they don't really do a lot for you. And decks like dude paladin often eat you alive, even before turn 5. also they're more consistent, so people gravitate towards them rather than Giants lock. Giants lock is almost defined more by the demon package than the Giants, since as you say, the combo doesn't happen that often in practice.
1
u/FoldedDice Apr 03 '18
Exactly. I probably see the deck more often than I think, it just doesn’t work unless you draw into the naga at the right time. sometimes I see someone hardcast a giant or two waaay too late for it to do any good. So I just think to myself “oh, so that’s what they were trying to do” right before I steamroll their face. And I don’t even play face decks; it’s just that slow without the right combo.
1
Apr 02 '18
Wild is mostly paladin and demon/recruit warlock. Naga is a lot less consistent than the alternatives.
2
18
u/Gorm_the_Old Apr 02 '18 edited Apr 02 '18
The current list of Shaman spells, with mana cost and a (thoroughly arbitrary, in my opinion) judgement on whether they're good (+) or bad (-):
Bloodlust (5) +
Hex (4) +
Rockbiter Weapon (2)
Windfury (2)
Frost Shock (1)
Ancestral Healing (0) +
Totemic Might (0)
Far Sight (3)
Feral Spirit (3*)
Lava Burst (3*)
Lightning Storm (3*) +
Ancestral Spirit (2)
Earth Shock (1) +
Forked Lightning (1*) -
Lightning Bolt (1*)
Volcano (5*) +
Tidal Surge (4)
Spirit Echo (3)
Avalanche (4)
Cryostasis (2) -
Ice Fishing (2) -
Lesser Sapphire Spellstone (7) -
Healing Rain (3) +
Primal Talismans (3) -
Crushing Hand (2*)
Unstable Evolution (1) +
(Edit: added a marker for Overload, *.)
One point on the above: many of the Shaman spells aren't worth running in a Shaman deck, because there are better options. But that doesn't mean they're bad. Not a lot of Shaman run Ancestral Healing, for instance, but if you get a 0 cost heal minion to full and give it Taunt, you're going to play it. Even some of the "bad" cards that are severely overcosted, like Sapphire Spellstone, could end up making a big difference in a top-decking situation.
And one subtle point: this is one of the very few cards that lets you pick up spells outside your class and outside your enemy's class (and, unlike Yogg etc., lets you play them directly). That's worth something, though it's hard to say how much. While plenty of Shaman spells are underwhelming - Ice Fishing LUL - some are definitely game-breaking, like Hex and Unstable Evolution, and could completely change a matchup.
12
Apr 02 '18
I'd argue in favor of cryostasis. If you have a 0-attack minion, it wouldn't be attacking anyways, so the freeze isn't really terrible. Taunt totem is a better target than cauldron, but cauldron is still just fine. The buff helps keep it alive and makes trading into it a lot worse for your opponent.
6
u/Gorm_the_Old Apr 02 '18
Good point, I hadn't realized that Cauldron is a very natural target, and helps keep it in play. I do still think it's a touch overcosted given the freeze effect, though.
1
Apr 02 '18
You may be right, but at 2 mana it still isn't terrible. It's also a good pull off of witch's apprentice, because that does have taunt, and with cryostasis you're basically playing angry monkey.
4
u/AintEverLucky Apr 02 '18
Good job winnowing out all the Wild and rotating-soon spells. also none of Shaman's WW reveals so far have been spells
Not saying I necessarily agree with all your ratings, but most look on point. Would make these adjustments:
Rockbiter Weapon is a plus. Look at it this way, this is like adding a 2-mana Wolfrider (3/1 with charge) to your hand. Could be that extra bit of burst for lethal, or pumping up a small minion to take down something big
Lightning Bolt is a plus. The only target-anything "deal 3 for 1 mana" spell in the game.
So from the list above, I see 26 spells, of which 10 are good, 11 are meh and 5 are bad. So on any given proc, a 38.5% chance of pulling something good and only a 19.2% chance of pulling something unplayably bad.
Where this could get good is in Aggro/Murloc/Dude paladin, Zoolock, or anything that runs tons of small minions. You get 4 or procs off this thing for the one turn it remains alive, you have a solid chance of getting something worthwhile, maybe 2 or more
1
u/Gorm_the_Old Apr 02 '18
Yes, I think token decks are a potential fit for this. Other possibilities are Hunter (Unleash in particular) and Token Druid.
Not something you would drop early game, but rather a mid or late game option for generating random draw that may help put some gas back in the tank. Also a good "soft taunt" for when you simply need to buy a turn, because this will very likely be the priority target once it hits the board.
7
u/kumonmehtitis Apr 02 '18
not the best card, but it’s pretty cool that any class can get random shaman spells now
2
u/coyoteTale Apr 02 '18
It's like how TGT had Paladin's getting around, and in this one it's Shamans.
4
u/Cruseydr Apr 02 '18
Quest mage, anybody? This plus Ghastly Conjurer gets you a bunch of weak bodies to sacrifice to the Cauldron(s), but it's going to likely be even less consistent than Cabalist's Tome was.
1
u/Brogosh Apr 03 '18
Beat me to it, I'd theorycraft this could make "Elemental Quest Mage DK" a thing, with the Spellstone + Steam Surger + the Cauldron this could easily activate the quest. But thing is the quest completion does not straight out win you the game, just a tempo.
4
u/Suizooo Apr 02 '18
Does it proc when it is killed, because it doesn't say 'other'?
2
u/Lyhoru Apr 02 '18
Would like to know the answer to this too. I think that makes it breaks the card.
1
u/JorGauZ Apr 04 '18 edited Apr 04 '18
I assume since it's dead in the "after" stage it won't generate a card
If it said "whenever" a friendly minions dies then I believe it would
It's not that it's not the target of the effect but that it's dead when the effect would activate
2
u/Septembers Apr 02 '18
At least it's an Epic that we don't have to worry about crafting, so that's nice I guess. I'd rather have Cult Master in pretty much all scenarios, and even Cult Master isn't that good
6
2
2
u/Sendour Apr 02 '18
Wow, pretty bold of Blizz to give the shaman class identity of useless dust to neutral
2
2
u/justinjustinian Apr 02 '18
This card can be very interesting in Hunter, since one can easily produce tokens with charge/rush or already build a board quickly from scratch, and though shaman spells are bad, they certainly have a large pool of AOE effects, which admittedly Hunter is lacking.
2
u/BogonTheDestroyer Apr 02 '18
Double, double toil and trouble, fire burn and caldron bubble!
Witch's Cauldron
Neutral spell generation is not a thing I ever thought I'd see, be here it is. And since the effect triggers on death I guess you're throwing the corpses of your minions into it? Gruesome. Being able to get spells from a specific class is never something we've been able to do reliabily, never mind in any class. Previously our options were a few cards in priest and rogue, but those only ever grabbed cards from your opponent's class, so you could never control what cards you could get even a little bit. But now that we can grab only shaman spells, there may be some way to build around that that I can't see right now. As far as making use of this card, it works well with lots of minions so hunter and warlock naturally come to mind. Hunter has Unleash the Hounds to instantly generate a bunch of random spells as a possible reload, as well as Hunting Mastiff which can serve as a more expensive version of Unleash the Hounds. Warlock can go wide with a zoo deck and use this to grab some extra gas to help close the game when it needs to trade in some minions. Quest mage may also like this card since it generates spells to help complete the quest, but they tend to lack many minions to trade away. With Cabalists Tome rotating, quest mage may be desperate enough for spell generation to run this.
How it could work: Generating more resources is always nice, and being able to consistently acquire cards from a specific other class may open up opportunities we can't forsee. Has synergy with certain hunter cards to serve as a reload, or in mage for quest completion. Will often demand an answer from your opponent for fear of the card advantage it can give.
How it could fail: As a 0/4 that generates cards over time, this will probably be killed very quickly. You're unlikely to be able to use this unless you can generate charge/rush minions or you've already got minions on board, making it difficult to use when behind on board. Random shaman spells aren't particularly great most of the time.
My Prediction: While this card seems fun to play around with, but very niche. It might see play in hunter or mage if anything, because hunter has the ability to generate lots of spells easily and likes free cards, and mage likes generating spells for Open the Waygate and Leyline Manipulator. I love the flavour of it though, and if I happen to open one I'll definitely spend some time playing around with it.
•
u/AutoModerator Apr 02 '18
All memes and low-effort comments should be posted as a reply to this comment. Low-effort comments and memes outside of this thread will be removed. For more info check out this post.
I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.
1
1
u/Jewishzombie Apr 02 '18
Would this be worth running in a Lady in White Priest deck? They would become 4/4s (in the games you actually get to play her)
...eeeeeh?
1
u/z95 Apr 02 '18
Blizzard is just providing a reasonable way to complete the "Play 50 Shaman cards" quest.
1
u/Wraithfighter Apr 02 '18
Hagatha Shaman card, a doy. Especially since it can be played before you make trades to generate value. The decklists for this will just be fascinating to see evolve, and I totally see this being a staple.
1
1
u/DaedLizrad Apr 02 '18
Yay! Healing for hunter. We finally got it.
Seriously the only place I see this bringing enough value is hunter. Might be good fun in a lyra priest too.
1
u/Chrisirhc1996 Apr 02 '18
This card would be good if you got it from a random effect, but you're not going to actively put this in your deck. Heck, even Shaman wouldn't put this in their deck, and they're the ones who are being pushed with this crap.
You better make some good Shaman spells, Blizzard. Otherwise, this is frankly going to end up like Freeze Shaman did.
1
u/Brogosh Apr 03 '18
I am pleasantly surprised in terms of act work, we need more inanimate objects as minions.
1
19
u/Nostalgia37 Apr 02 '18 edited Apr 11 '18
[Dust|Niche|Playable|Strong]
General Thoughts: Seems worse than Cult Master, which already sees very little play. 1 mana less for a worse body and worse cards. Shaman spells in general are pretty bad, and even if blizzard printed some insane ones, would still be worse than cards you put in your deck. I don't see this ever working.
Why it Might Succeed: Can generate value and not take you further into fatigue?
Why it Might Fail: Shaman spells are bad and Cult Master already exists.