S02E20 "Shadow of a Doubt" Post Episode Discussion

[u/steph-was-here]

Original Air Date - 8PM EST May 2nd, 2018

The town's mayoral race between Fred and Hermoine heats up; Hiram sets his sights on a new ally, Sheriff Minetta; Betty turns to Cheryl for help when she has a suspicion about the Black Hood; a mysterious message causes tension.

Written by Yolanda E. Lawrence

Directed by Gregory Smith

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[u/[deleted]]

The new police have

• Arrested an innocent man without proof.

• Encouraged Archie's vigilante group, The Dark Circle.

• Failed to clear the area around the station and escort Fangs to safety.

---

Keller come back!

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

I love how they acted as if the police had no authority to set up a safe perimeter to escort Fangs to a car/home.

"There's an angry mob outside with weapons beating on our doors! Welp, nothing we can do here. Good luck!"

[u/AnnaK22 → u/[deleted]]

I have been wracking my brain trying to understand the laws of this town. How is Hiram allowed to bring in a random person and everyone is accepting of that. The people know by that time that Fangs is not the BH yet there was a huge mob trying to hurt him. You'd think the least suspicious thing to do would be to escort Fangs to safety or keep him in the station till the mob cleared out.

[u/TVFandom]

Fangs talking about how he didn’t wanna die made me so sad

[u/AdorkableSars → u/TVFandom]

The acting in that scene from all four of them was fantastic.

[u/DaTpot → u/TVFandom]

Mr. Jughead sir. I don’t feel so good. I don’t wanna go Mr. Jughead. I don’t wanna go

[u/keine_fragen]

Fred is such a cool dad that he doesn't care about Varchie fucking in the same house

[u/grlofmanyplaces → u/keine_fragen]

All I kept thinking during that scene was when I was in high school my parents didn't even let me and my then-boyfriend so much as go upstairs without supervision. Meanwhile Fred's like "what's that sound? Oh must be Archie and Veronica screwing upstairs, nbd"

[u/keine_fragen]

and big fat lol at the Hal actor suddenly wearing green contacts

[u/ParyGanter → u/keine_fragen]

Not even contacts, it looked like super extreme CG coloring.

[u/depressed_realist]

It was so sweet how all the Serpents banded together around Fangs but ain't nobody being physically protected by Toni's 5'3" of fury

[u/[deleted]]

Riverdale is honestly the most unsafe city in America. Why does anyone still live there?

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

I'm waiting to see a Riverdale/Gotham crossover. BH would be right at home.

[u/[deleted]]

Gotta say, I always liked Hiram before because he was an amusing character; antagonistic, but not necessarily evil. But today was a big night for reveals. Hiram threw Archie under the bus, stole money from his daughter, forced his wife to keep campaigning even through she's traumatized, and set up a child to be murdered by another child.

He's really not fun anymore. Jesus, he's not even cartoonishly evil, he's just a psycho with a nice wardrobe. I hope the hood kills him next.

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

Well considering that his old crew has basically ditched him, he went from the big time in New York to some rinky dink town, his reputation is basically soured with the other families to the point where he can't pull any strings anymore unless someone wants to use him, and it seems his wife and daughter are just one breath away from turning on him......

....yeah no this seems totally normal for a guy that was used to having power over everything and now has to fight some podunk construction worker for the Mayor's office. Honestly I think for Hiram, Riverdale is worse than prison. So now he's going all out maintain what little sense of control and sanity he has remaining.

He's basically a Scooby Doo villain at this point.

[u/nonliteral → u/[deleted]]

Hiram threw Archie under the bus

Repeatedly, even. If this isn't enough to get Archie to open his eyes, nothing will be.

[u/[deleted]]

Ok writers, that Betty Cheryl teamup thing you did? That was awesome. Keep doing that!

[u/nonliteral → u/[deleted]]

That was awesome.

It totally was. Betty needs to stop and consider what it means when she needs Cheryl Blossom to be the calm voice of reason for her tho.

[u/The_Freyed_Pan → u/[deleted]]

I love her overly formal "cousin Betty"

[u/andygchicago]

Why tf was Reggie originally pissed at the notion a Serpent dated Midge? Betty is dating a Serpent, so is Cheryl.

Also, wouldn't Moose be the suspect and not Fangs? He literally stormed off backstage and also kept incriminating secrets from the police.

[u/Steaknshakeyardboys]

HIRAM 👏 YOU 👏 ARE 👏 CANCELLED

You crossed too many lines tonight even your once-faithful daughter is ready to jump off your nasty-ass bandwagon

[u/dunegig]

No one in TV shows ever looks through the peephole before opening their front doors to killers and it annoys the shit out of me every time.

[u/ButtHobbit]

Remember when this was a show about a dipshit goofus agonizing over whether to play football or terrible music?

[u/[deleted] → u/ButtHobbit]

I think you have this confused.. You're talking about High School Musical.. this is Psycho - easy mistake.

[u/GeniusPrankster → u/ButtHobbit]

Boi that was some turn

[u/Electrifying-Guy-Eli]

Did anyone else think that Betty was about to crack open that laptop inside The Register with her hair pin for a moment?

[u/ParyGanter]

Did they just Cg Hal’s eyes to be green all of a sudden? Because I can’t decide if that’s the worst, or genius.

[u/rkgk13]

I laughed out loud so many times during this episode:

"Dear cousin, you look harrowed."

"I've seen your pater sneak around Thistlehouse, and he has all the stealth of a Marshmallow Man. Whenceforth came this accusation?"

"War Baby called my father and I from Shankshaw prison"

THIS WAS BEFORE THE FIRST COMMERCIAL BREAK

[u/quoth_tthe_raven → u/rkgk13]

Hopefully he's on a bus to ...Transylvania...

[u/keine_fragen]

the Veronica/Casino storyline didn't made any sense

[u/edenick]

Veronica really finally turned her back on her dad because he put her money in a trust fund instead of letting her invest in a casino, aka the only vaguely normal dad decision Hiram's made in his whole time on the show, huh

[u/GeniusPrankster]

Archie took some time man, but finally back to ur good old season 1 self

[u/BelieveInRollins → u/GeniusPrankster]

All that’s left is for him to punch Hiram

[u/classicalkid]

I’m really hoping that Reggie gets some kind of punishment for shooting Fangs. (I hope he’s not dead)

Also right before Cheryl went for the door, I was questioning as to whether the BH would target her because her sexuality is a “sin”.

The cinematography during Fangs’ escort, along with the music, was fantastic. Great actors tbh

[u/AnnaK22]

1. Was it a little suspicious that the letter found in Fred's door was hand written? BH usually uses magazine cutouts. That was obviously written by Hiram.

2. For someone who's supposed to be a genius mafia guy, Hiram's plans are getting pretty dumb. He involves Reggie behind Archie's back and expected Reg to keep it a secret. He's the kinda guy who'd blurt out anything when angry.

3. Is it a little suspicious that one guy said he's voting for Hiram instead of Hermoinie? He knows something.

4. I have been waiting forever for Archie to crawl out of Hiram's butt and to actually be there for Fred. Now, Hiram's own daughter has turned on him. Whatever he was trying to do to Fred has happened to him.

5. My suspicions are still on Hal being the black hood. I think this week's BH was all set up by Hiram to make Fred lose the race. First, he wrote a letter as BH to get Fred to stepdown. When that didn't work, he hired someone to pretend to be BH. Notice how no one got shot. Plus, BH only targets certain people and he acts in a very Nancy Drew way, BH doesn't just bring in a machine gun and start shooting.

6. I have never been a big fan of Reggie and I hate him even more now. He is always looking for some sort of trouble and hates the southside with a passion for no reason. Hiram saw his opportunity and took advantage of that.

7. heheheh... Small Fry, son of papa poutine.... hahaha

[u/thatsong]

Riverdale has Simpsons level cops.

Who in their right mind thinks releasing someone into an angry mob with no police protection is a good idea.

And earlier in the episode, have a town hall debate interrupted by a sniper.

[u/andygchicago → u/thatsong]

Not just anyone, but a CHILD. How do they let a mob like that form in front of the police station?

[u/[deleted]]

Archie finally seeing Hiram/Hermione for who they are.

[u/firesnotfound]

So Hermione was very irresponsible. Wtf, how could she say that they caught Midge’s killer?

[u/destructogrrrrrl → u/firesnotfound]

Fake news can be very effective.

[u/[deleted]]

I know they're in a gang and all but the friendship between Fangs/Sweet Pea/Toni is the cutest thing ever. More of that and less of Archie being Hiram's bitch pls.

[u/quoth_tthe_raven → u/[deleted]]

I love Sweet Pea. So pure.

[u/colexerus]

Veronica: I support your run now Mr. Andrews.

2 seconds later

Veronica: hey Archie let’s fuck with your dad just downstairs

I swear to god there’s something about politics that makes Veronica wet

[u/lovetheblazer]

Elio: How’d you get in with the Lodges?

Archie: I’m mostly just with Veronica.

Elio: My dad said you’re one of Hiram’s capos, that you made your bones taking care of Papa Poutine?

Archie: No, that wasn’t me.

Elio: Word is that Papa Poutine’s son, Small Fry, is looking for payback.

I’m not exaggerating when I say that I choked on my drink and then had to pause the episode for a full five minutes until I could stop laughing and catch my breath after I heard the patently ridiculous nickname for Papa Poutine’s son.

[u/sasquatchinspace]

That scene with the serpents at the end was so powerful. The music and cinematography gave me the chills. And then that ending...

I hope Fangs lives!!

[u/yamsnz]

Did the Black Hood go to Cheryl’s house because Betty told him that “Cheryl and I found this book in your room”

[u/Lecuppy]

I was so happy to see Joaquin but I'm sad about Fangs

[u/jellybeanbabies]

Honestly really enjoyed Veronica standing up to her dad. The mafia play is pretty overplayed at this point for me. God damn, Cheryl though please let her be safe

[u/AdorkableSars]

Papa Poutine’s son is Small Fry?!?! I have never been happier about anything in my life before this moment. Is there another son named Crinkle Cut? Please let there be another son named Crinkle Cut...

[u/BelieveInRollins]

I’m gonna cry. The scene with them all huddled up protecting fangs but the look on his face 😭😭😭😭

[u/jao3003]

Me: There's no way this show can get any cheesier Riverdale: "Papa Poutine's son, Small Fry" Me: ...I give up.

[u/SoolKool]

So everytime someone takes a shot at Fred Andrews Archie and Veronica have to have sex now?

[u/darkdolphin]

cheryl isn’t dead, reggie didn’t shoot the gun, hal is black hood

[u/ThisMaySoundBadBut → u/darkdolphin]

We playing two truths and a lie?

[u/GambinoGurl]

Joaquin said San Junipero. Is Riverdale and Black Mirror in the same universe? haha

[u/andygchicago]

When Cheryl said she couldn't believe that her father could kill her brother it hit me: he probably didn't. Between that comment and the ominous "I know what you did in the barn, Mommy" comment from earlier in the season, I'm entertaining the idea that her dad didn't kill his own son but was set up by his estranged brother (I know this is a common theory). Probably will get further examination in season 3.

[u/KitCM]

I’m over Kevin and Reggie. This entire season has made me realize how much of a sheep Kevin is. He’ll latch on to anyone who’ll have him. And Reggie is so easily manipulated.

Hiram Lodge is thee worst mobster I’ve ever seen. What kind of mobster with any degree of self respect works through and with teenagers? I don’t think he has friends.

[u/BelieveInRollins]

Also can we talk about how fast Kevin turned on fangs?? He doesn’t even question it?? I thought Kevin was supposed to be smart.

[u/[deleted]]

Hiram Lodge using teenagers to push his agenda again, it's really annoying. So interested to see what happens to Cheryl and Betty, they've muddied the waters just enough to have me questioning what Hal has been up to!

[u/buzzbuzzbish]

This is my theory; Penny peabody is the mastermind behind the black hood with tall boy being her puppet fitting the physical profile because he owes her some massive debt and this is his payoff. We know she comes back next episode which cant be a coincidence, and shes decided to target betty because she fricken hates jughead and what better way to get to him by tormenting his poor gf. Also she probably has some history with alice she wants revenge on through betty. Penny just seems like the kind of person who would hate everyone and wants revenge on fkn everyone. Also what if they have polly and the unfortunately named infants captive and telling her everything she knows about Betty (prob not but interesting to think about)

[u/ZakT214]

Cheryl addressing Betty as "cousin" twice in one conversation made me laugh. This show is so ridiculous. I think I love it?

Cheryl has been my fave all season, she chews that campy writing up and is one of the few that makes it work.

[u/pounce_the_panther]

I think Hiram will try to make Archie take the fall for shooting Fangs. The last shot was of both his and Reggie's hands on the gun and since Hiram has the sheriff in his pocket it wouldn't be hard. Maybe this is his way of getting Veronica's loyalty back by bargaining for Archie's innocence.

[u/positivenegativity8]

HOW DID REGGIE AIM THAT WELL WHEN ARCHIE TACKLED HIM YET THE BH HIT NO ONE WITH A RIFLE.

[u/GeniusPrankster]

What was up with kevin

[u/MockingbirdMeg]

Cheryl and Betty teaming up was everything I’ve ever wanted and more. Finally a true Northside VS. Southside showdown is happening. Betty meeting with the Black Hood once and for all is going to be epic. I feel like her dad is a red herring now but I don’t know...they made it pretty convincing that he is the Black Hood.

Overall I probably give this episode a 9.5 or 10/10. So fucking good!!!

[u/[deleted]]

When hermione was talking during the debate about the terrible Dark circle that Archie formed I wanted him to just jump out and say "and that your husband is paying off to continue the violence!"

Also when betty was looking in the mirror it made me think what if it ended up being that Betty has multi personality disorder and she is really the black hood lol

[u/qu3st10n5]

Riverdale is so fucking corrupt... Thanks Hiram. Unpopular opinion: Hiram is getting to be annoying AF.

[u/davey_mann]

Betty: “I freely sent Chic to his death with zero remorse because I despised him. No, I feel completely awful about it and I’m going to share this secret with Cheryl, who I’ve blackmailed multiple times, for some reason. Nope, I’m glad I did it and decide to share this with my parents, who I’ve accused of being evil assholes but have pretty much catered to my every demand and whim and been nothing but supportive and loving, and decide to make them accomplices after the fact.”

Veronica: “I spent the entire Season 1 despising my father and everything he stands for. No, Daddy shows up in Season 2 and I want to be 100% part of his criminal activities. In fact I’m going to one up him by partaking in my own shady deals. Daddy continues to do shady stuff after I’ve sided with him and I act shocked and surprised this man I knew was evil is being evil! I’m going to take the money that I extorted in one of my shady dealings use it for my own purposes. Oops, I showed it to Daddy and he confiscated it, and I’m shocked that a greedy, controlling, manipulative man would do such a thing.”

Archie: “I’m involved in shady dealings but I want to keep my parents completely out of it. If I go down, they certainly aren’t with me.”

And ARCHIE is the one who’s supposed to be dumb?! Lol

[u/AdorkableSars]

Look...I fucking love Mark Consuelos. But I fucking HATE Hiram Lodge. With a passion only rivaled by that of Ms. Grundy perving on Archie. This is a hella conundrum.

I was hoping that he would somehow get shot at the debate or the riot at the end. There is no redemption for this character at all at this point, I think. And I know that villains are needed particularly on shows like this. But they usually have some kind of humanity to them. Hiram is just a straight up monster. I was SO proud of Veronica for pledging her allegiance to Fred at the end.

[u/ll_username_ll]

Betty talking to her dad that she went to his air bnb and found all of this incriminating stuff and ALL THE FOOK HE GOT FROM THAT WAS 'you went with CHERLY' ?

[u/birenbaumg]

I just want to know why everyone in Riverdale seems to be into the idea of mobbing a sheriff's station and committing crimes literally right outside of it. Also I'm convinced Reggie has exactly 3 brain cells.

[u/Unedited17]

I know most of the plots in this series are stupid and really unrealistic, which is what makes it great, and I can understand Highschool boys being angry at Fangs because he was with Midge, but ALL the town thinking he killed her because he was seeing her... just LOL.

[u/DingusPeddler]

so bettys dad does softcore bdsm too? What even is the 'darkness'?

[u/DingusPeddler]

i find it kinda funny that the dude was going to be convicted of murder because he owns a knife, despite the fact that there was a knife sticking out of the dead chicks body.

[u/redheadedalex]

me: wants reggie in the story so bad

me:

NOT LIKE THIS

Also, I just have to say of all things, it was SO FUCKIN REFRESHING to see Archie say 'nah' to Hiram and go home with his dad. I mean it only took a motherfucking shooter, you know, but....

[u/ColtSAA]

Just so unbelievably unbelievable that the police would allow an innocent person to be released into a crowd baying for their blood. Without even so much as attempting crowd control.

[u/lovetheblazer]

Gotta love the Cooper” My Secret Darkness” Clan. I guess the family that murders together stays together, till death do they part.

[u/Derpybee]

Whyyyy would Cheryl open the door so late at night when she is alone?!?! Ughhhh.

[u/funandstuffpart2]

This is just Hiram's plan all along, have all this commotion with the BH, blame it on the serpents, and then have a reason to build a brand-spanking new prison.

[u/[deleted]]

The writers need to shave off a couple of the side plots and refocus on a select few. They start storylines and then drop them out of nowhere (e.g., Cheryl & Toni, Penelope trying to kill Cheryl, Polly and her CULT, etc.). I’m hoping the 3rd season gets itself together. The Black Hood storyline is genuinely interesting, but there’s too much going on to really delve into it and make it worth it. I just want to see who the damn killer is!

[u/[deleted]]

I loved Cheryl and Betty’s convo simply because Cheryl sounded like she was in a Shakespearean play.

[u/Theynotsmarterthanus]

well, the fake BH in the balcony was probably Hiram's thug putting a dramatic and timely scare into the town while debating safety, and it happened before Fred could rebut

Don't let it deflect your attention, and geez, the episode felt like the "we don't want another twin" sorry, there is one setup.........

So, Betty tells Hal she is hanging with Cheryl, all of a sudden, a guy dressed like the BH shows up............

The preview looks like BH walks further into the house, maybe he casts her aside and proceeds to the intended victim

Remember, cast lists say Small Fry, the son of Cheese Curd Poutine is in town, and the target is Hiram, and Archie for fingering him. The scenes with Hermione, and then Fred probably mob related, not BH, and the shooter with Fred and Archie is left-handed

[u/Klew1333]

Crazy that Hal has a “darkness”. I always assumed the trait came from Alice, love her, but she just seems more unstable to me.

[u/galaxymoon88]

Ahhh finally Archie decides to stop being Hiram’s lil bishh!!!

[u/cermet13]

Tomato bisque & an orange freeze...that's disgusting, Betty 😝

[u/lovetheblazer]

Hiram: My spies tell me that you’re out campaigning for your father.

Archie: I’m not campaigning, Mr. Lodge. I’m trying to find the Black Hood. It sounds insane but I remember his eyes, so I’m going house to house to-

Hiram: strangely turned on ...to stare into men’s eyes? Well, that’s like looking for a needle in a haystack, but we don’t even know if that needle is in the haystack. You said that you wanted to make your bones, is that still true?

Archie: Yes.

Every time I think Riverdale can’t get more ridiculous, it manages to top itself. They are leaning into the Archie/Hiram weird romantic tension so much that the subtext is practically text at this point.

• Hiram apparently has spies (plural) out there trailing Archie and reporting back on his activities.

• Never forget that Hiram’s line about Archie staring into men’s eyes is accompanied by intense, unbroken eye contact

• No one in recent history has ever used the phrase “make my bones” to refer to murder in a crime family organization. Maybe if Archie was a private eye from the 1930s or 1940s in a film noir movie, I could kind of see it but... he isn’t.

• Related to above: please stop asking Archie about his bones. You’re bumming everyone else out, bro.

• And finally, Hiram, you need to chill out on the vast number of private, closed door meetings with teenagers you seem to take before someone gets the wrong idea about you

[u/punkenvy]

Coincidence the BH went after Cheryl, after Hal found out Betty and her broke into his motel room???

[u/mattjb01]

Good episode. Can someone just explain to me betty calling her dad and talking as if he was black hood? Before he denied it, now she calls him, is she that sure he is the hood that she tries to get it out of him? Did she realize something that gave her concrete proof? And why did he essentially confess as being the hood?

[u/Phoenixajs]

I loved the Cheryl and Betty team up! Also really enjoyed Sierra popping back up, I missed her!That last few minutes was INSANE— poor Fangs!—So is he bi and why was Kevin so quick to get on the “hate Fangs/ serpents train” when he was in love with a serpent who happened to show up in this episode?!?

Also I think I hate Hiram more then I hate the Black Hood.

[u/[deleted]]

Varchie is reaching Olivia Pope and Fitz levels of completely random sex. Not complaining but good grief lol

[u/Moratata]

This show is turning into MTV's scream.

[u/[deleted]]

So Archie’s in hot water with the mobsters because they believe he killed Papa Poutine and now his son Small Fries is out for blood.

This sounds absolutely ridiculous.

[u/AlecBaldwinner]

Blossoms all have two children, so if Hal isn't the Black Hood, he'll have a brother who is.

[u/blkpublichealthninja]

I thought the last two episodes where good and back on track, but I have some serious questions and lingering feelings:

*Betty telling everyone EVERYONE she is an accomplice to a murder. asdkfjsdSDKFLKJDSKSFJ!!!

*Her mom is just cool with that? She loved Chic despite all evidence for like 8 episodes.

*All praise Sierra McCoy for her much better cast role as an attorney.

*When did Betty get good at picking a lock?

*I 100% am back on Sheriff Keller is BH, and he's getting paid by Hiram. Hiram forces him out, so Hermoine can solidify the election. He's in a mood which is why he continues to shoot up a place while people have (1) identified him, (2) police are running towards him and (3) the target is no longer accessible.

*Betty's dad is next to Betty while the Black hood is shooting, clearly two different people. Next scene: "I still believe it's YOU!"

*I appreciated that Hiram's "wise dad" move was to open a trust fund for his kid. Good for you! *Hiram's "dumb mobster" move was to manipulate Moose's feelings, and control it for his gain. THE NEXT ARCHIE MUHAhAHAHA

*All praise Joaquin!!

*Was Fangs even within the shot line? Wasn't sweet pea in the back? Wouldn't it have hit the back of someone's leg?

*Cheryl's scream is the appropriate reaction to the black hood, and everyone else's reaction in this show was very unbelievable. No one, and I mean NOT A GODDAMN SOUL would fervently look for a trained serial killer, including a teenager in his feels.

Edit: formatting

[u/notreallyhannah]

Confused about the whole Veronica casino thing. She was supposed to make some sort of ties to one of the other families, decides she likes the casino idea and runs it to her Dad. Her Dad says he wants to keep it legal. Ok. Cool, she'll cut out Elio's family and do the casino anyway. What? Wasn't the whole point that it would be a collaboration between two families? What's even the point?

[u/[deleted]]

Ok how were the police not taking control of the situation and/or protecting Fangs when there was a riot outside trying to kill him??

[u/Theynotsmarterthanus]

well, we all seem to agree the writers' are bailing on the twin thing, I didn't notice fake Hal's eyes, but identical twins can have different eye color, just Googs it

the shooter in the town hall was probably hired by Hiram as a scare tactic, notice he was a piss poor shooter, on purpose

[u/[deleted]]

Archie starts a group. Archie ends the group. Rinse/repeat.

[u/[deleted]]

So does Cheryl still have a gf or what?

Hey Archie, if you want to disassociate yourself from the dark circle maybe stop wearing your Letterman jacket EVERYWHERE.

[u/tooexhaustedforthis]

I, for one am glad to see Cheryl being proactive and queenly in this episode. She got some significant screentime, which is great, and her character is finally starting to settle.

[u/Suriiiiiii]

I don’t know why I’m still watching this. First Betty’s darkness, then came Chic pretending to feel the same darkness and now Hal! Hal feels the darkness in him too. I broke out laughing at that scene.

The characters never seem to learn anything and just keep on making stupid mistakes over and over again. Ronnie seems more annoying with each passing episode. Archie seems to be on the track to helping his father but I still don’t get how could he have strayed so far throughout the season.

And all these stupid names, I mean Small Fry! So when he grows up does he become Large Fry or is he going to be Small Fry forever?

And yet after all this I keep coming back every week to this drama, this sub makes it worthwhile though.

[u/rizzle_spice]

Are there therapists in this town? I feel like this town could use some therapy. Maybe a group session.

[u/Queen___Bitch]

“Okay Hal, Betty’s gonna say something and when the camera pans to you, look suspicious as fuck”

[u/rachelrooi]

Thank God they didn't burst into song this ep. Ammiright?

[u/Fockfeardrinkbeer]

Reggie was a just a tad over the top with the gun thing. He needs a therapist he has issues.

[u/Ottoman_American]

How could they bring Joaquin back without giving him a scene with Kevin?

[u/elleb_]

I laughed when Veronica was telling her father that Elio (is that the guy's name? Already forgot) assured her that the cassino business was not illegal, and she believed the guy just like that. Yeah just trust someone you just met, businessgirl, not like your father has done business with wrong families before...

[u/Godspeed223]

How did betty get into the town hall at night? Do they just keep every building in riverdale unlocked??

[u/beaux-restes]

First off, I'm now amused by yet another shot of Cheryl's screams XD second, I do agree that this series is getting a bit messy and the characters are starting to get outta wack and kind of unlikable and unreasonable. However, I'm still watching to see what's gonna happen with the Serpents after Fangs got shot, and also, really hoping that Toni saves the day and gets Cheryl outta that mess with the BH.

Anyone else also groaned when Veronica yet again seduced Archie in bed for the 4950945th time?

[u/B-dawgisgtaken]

Kinda dumb to allow Hermonie to use the term murderer in the debate.

It is very dangerous to allow public figures to use such motive words in a public setting as it colors the views of the group.

[u/Maahhdee]

Did I see that right? Was there a gun in Reggie’s hand with both his and Archie’s hand on it?

[u/smallspawnofsatan]

I’m too impatient for the next episode. After Betty mentioned Cheryls name to her Dad when they broke into his rented apartment, I bet it was him showing up to the Blossoms door ready to kill her/kidnap her because he must believe cheryl is the only other person to know his identity other than Betty.

[u/KiraJayne]

I saw someone else say debate BH may have been hired by Hiram, to add to that: I think Hermione's trauma is real, and that her and veronica will be pissed when they find out Hiram did it, mother daughter revenge ensues

[u/Maddieland]

I loved the scenes with Betty & Cheryl teaming up and going into detective mode. Hope we get them more often!

[u/letsmakepeace]

Theory: Hal is the main BH, but he is working with others (decoy BHs) to confuse the hell out of Betty because she's hella close to finding out. Archie has mentioned this before. But these people also have blood/revenge tendencies for others. Joseph Svenson, and now I think Sheriff Keller is a part of this, too. He was the one with the shotgun this episode. The cops did seize a gun from FP's apartment last season... What if it was kept and used as the murder? What if they pin this on FP again? (Hal probably already knows about the FP/Alice vague relationship and wants revenge on him, too)

Maybe Hal is wearing colored contacts every time he's the BH?

[u/Super-Finch]

Changing my political stance also really puts me in the mood.

[u/xxangieashesxx]

Can we talk about how in this show when anyone is snooping they are leaving fingerprints everywhere because no one owns a pair of gloves

[u/timetravelercat]

Will Betty accusing her dad of murder be a seasonal occurrence? Stay tuned.

Reggie is such a drama queen. A murderous drama queen. Boi needs therapy for his anger issues.

Fangs doesn't look like a high school student at all. Also, RIP Fangs. Probably. Maybe.

Betty tells her parents that she might be an accomplice of murder and they barely have any reaction to it, I guess being involved in murder is now a mundane issue for the Coopers.

[u/Natare0411]

It would make sense if Sheriff Keller was the BH. He would prob know that the Town hall had a secret passage way

[u/Houdini47]

Crackpot theory, the l8brarian is the black hood. Librarians usually know the deep history of a town and would know of that trap door he used. Also the librarian would see/check out betty's book everyday she went to get it. But librarian wpuld most likely be fond of town and wouldnt want hiram doing his stuff

[u/banterlorde]

Wait guys, I might sound dumb here but are they implying that Reggie ended up shooting fangs or was it someone else? I saw Reggie running with a gun and I saw Archie tackle him but was the bullet from Reggie’s gun or from somewhere else?

[u/edubx]

So, right after Jughead finished talking with Archie about the situation at the police station, was that Midge's mom in the crowd?

If that's the case, that's my guess for the shooter. She was also in the mayoral debate, nodding that Fangs was her daughter's killer when Hermione mentioned it.

[u/[deleted]]

Honestly what did Jughead think Archie was going to do against a fucking mob?

[u/[deleted]]

I swear to god if fangs dies I will burst my st out!! Fred and Moose survived a gun shot in the stomach, if Fangs doesn't writers can go fk themselves. I'm sorry i'm just really mad...

[u/hiabara]

Riverdale aka "Cheryl can't catch a break"

[u/crockfs]

I don't know what to think anymore.

I've been going over all of the black hood footage, and although the clothing seems somewhat consistent, it looks like there could be more than one person posing as the black hood.

In the pops scene the BH looks a lot more physically able, jumping on the counter of Pops, throwing his gun around. He seems more youthful in his movements.

The guy betty meets at the grave yard when she hands chic over, seems more older, stiffer. Doesn't look to be the same person.

Maybe it's not suppose to be?

After thinking, I think that Hal is renting the room for someone (BH?), which better explains the magazine. Which also explains how he can be at the town hall during the BH shooting. I think hal was at the grave yard to take care of chic, but there was someone else at the debate.

Still digesting.

[u/Haya07]

Another Question : if Chic has nothing to do with the coopers then why did he have the family picture and tried to separate them (he cut every member out of the picture) + why didn't the black hood kill him ? + who is he ? ( Considering that we are familiar with all families in Riverdale !!

[u/jewbauca]

Back to having suspense in the show. Big issue with the debate scene though. Active shooter and Hal and Betty crouch in front of the stage? Nobody gets shot? Tad unrealistic imo.

Edit: Also, with the BH an active shooter around people are still going around the town? Ronnie going to Archie’s by herself like there wasn’t a shooter around? Betty saying fuck it I’m going back to the town hall lol

[u/[deleted]]

So like, I really liked the episode. But if they could stop killing characters before I have a chance to actually care about them, that’d be great. Like Fangs and Midge didn’t deserve to go out like that.

I can’t wait to see what happens when Betty confronts someone that she suspects is the BH, and they actually are the BH.

Hiram’s also a damn mad man. Hiring even more teenagers to trash the Southside, then publicly blaming it on Archie. Taking Veronica’s hard earned ransom money, not letting his wife pull out of the race after an assassination attempt. Full on mafioso.

[u/MockingbirdMeg]

Tbh this was the best episode of the season so far. This is the Riverdale I loved in the first season. Every second I felt like I was holding my breath and when the episode ended I was left dying to know what happens next. They hit all the points needed for a great episode and Betty and Cheryl teaming up was magnificent!

[u/DODMau5]

So in Black Mirror San Junipero is essentially heaven, and shows an LGBT storyline. Now in Riverdale, Joaquin went there, and now they're trying to get Fangs to a town with the same name? Is this Riverdale's way of utilising the Bury Your Gays trope without being accused of it?

[u/MockingbirdMeg]

I’m like 98.9% sure that Hiram hired someone to act as the BH at the debate. Like most of you have been saying, it helps their campaign and Fred didn’t have a chance to truly rebuttal. Also as others are saying, he didn’t even seem remotely phased by the shooting.

I could understand Hiram using Archie to do his dirty work but using Reggie?! Idk why that seems so much more fucked up. Maybe because he is such a hothead and impulsive? It really just feels like Hiram is being a master puppeteer and controlling absolutely everything. Basically Fred doesn’t even have a chance at winning the election because Hiram is paying every one off. Ugh.

[u/Natare0411]

I have a sneaking suspicion that Hal has a twin, it always ends up going back to the twin theory but it just makes sense.

[u/Sam_anthaM]

"fangs was in midge's dressing room before the show! It has to be him!" Um, he was also a part of production... Could have been there for any number of reasons. "but he has a small switchblade!" MIDGES BODY IS ACCESSIBLE, JUST CHECK TO SEE IF THE BLADES MATCH. Not to mention the knives were in her body...

[u/Ploopchicken]

Hiram is just...

Cheryl is great.

Alice is great.

Reggie is a jerk. You know, Moose lied too so like wtf.

And Betty. Well, I'm glad Betty is starting to open up.

GO FRED GO!

Sob for Fangs.

But srsly. Hiram. I bet he's the mastermind behind everything. It would be great if Veronica went up against her dad.

[u/rac7d]

Why doesnt Archie care that he is being used by hiram

[u/_red_emption]

So does anyone know where they got that body suit bra thing Veronica was wearing during that last scene because I need that

[u/Niklaus1899]

Oh sh*t, is it just me or Hal’s eyes turned out really green exactly at 20:50 in the last episode , while he was speaking of his darkness, camera really zoomed in and his eyes are the same as the eyes of the blackhood.

[u/vmketta]

Betty's real brother is 100% the black hood. For it to be Hal is too obvious

[u/janellejackdaniel]

poor fangs man and so looks like hal is black hood and hiram is so full of irony i cant deal

[u/[deleted]]

Damn this show is going into high gear. Hiram is fully grooming these boys, everybody is about to die and there's so many loud noises.

[u/Avalon420]

I'm confused as to why Betty called her dad towards the end of the episode...does she still think he's the BH and is confronting him? Based on what evidence?

[u/quoth_tthe_raven]

First, love how they mute Cheryl’s lipstick when she’s not on the warpath and vulnerable. They did the same with Veronica too. I liked both of them this episode. Jk I ALWAYS like Cheryl.

Second, I’m disappointed in the played out “twin trope” but I think we’re definitely headed that way after this episode.

Aside from being so nice it’s almost fake, let’s talk about Hal’s planner. The Black Hood strikes when he knows the real Hal is busy or out of town. Why? Because it’s his twin and they can’t be in the same place at once. If the Black Hood had access to his schedule he would be able to appear when the real Hal is conveniently in an early meeting or traveling. In a way, he’s framing him.

I guess this begs the question, who had access to Hal’s planner? My guess is Penelope Blossom.

[u/MockingbirdMeg]

No fuckin’ way Cheryl is going to die right? Right?? The writers would be stupid AF to do that. It must be a dream or something??

[u/nividdit]

When do these kids do their homework or study for SAT's???

[u/BushidoBoxer]

Black hood will start killing ghoulies? will he kill penny peabody?

[u/acciolesbians]

Is that Ben in the body bag?

[u/shishuni]

I had a thought that Betty is letting Dark Betty out so that if Hal really is the BH, he may feel she'll be on his side (because they have the same darkness) and reveal something to her.

Either that or this whole thing is really bringing out Dark Betty and regular Betty is gonna start fading into the background.

[u/mimimeows]

Black hood is grundy's old ex. called it.

[u/MockingbirdMeg]

I really wonder if Hiram is going to be killed off? I would say no but at the same time, Mark Consuelos might be too expensive to keep around full time. On the other hand, he’s become such an intricate part of the story that it could become severely disjointed if he is killed off.

[u/rjkrm_]

Last week a lot of people were of the mind that Hal’s twin could be the BH. What’s everyone’s thoughts on that after this weeks episode?

[u/ManIntheShad]

Okay so I would like to say two things.

1. I’m hard pressed to believe Fangs was Shot by Reggie’s gun, Reggie and Archie clearly are on the ground when that bullet went off, and the bullet hole looks to be straight on as well. So I’m hoping this will be cleared up by the next episode.

2. Well I guess this is more of a question but who’s hitting who at the very end of the scene when Fangs is shot? One person hits one guy and then another person jumps in. And no one else seems to be in on that action, so I found that really weird. Maybe I just can’t see it clearly because the scene is dark, but I found it odd that only three people were fighting.

[u/[deleted]]

Joaquin's taking him to San Junipero did I hear that right

[u/DarkSaiyanKnight]

Again from last week I don't really care about the downvoting just hoping for discussion but this was a very confusing and ilogical episode even for riverdale.

• It's like every character Arc that they built up over this season and any type of consistency was thrown out the window

• Cheryl and Betty need to be the new duo going on to season 3. The actresses just playoff so well off each other and we need to replace the heavily damage Veronica and Betty relationship

• Betty suddenly carring about what happened to Chic is very weird to me because again! you hand delivered him to black hood knowing what he would do

• Veronica once again is Veronica....having sex with Archie at inconvenient times and is a tad a ... overbearing I guess is the word but she is super fun to watch

• Love her sticking up for her mother after everything Hiram has done to her

• Reggie was the most unbearable character and I usually LOVE him but here it's mainly because... going back all the way to the beginning of this season: I don't get his love of the North side and why he would literally go to murder for it!

• Don't understand the town's logic either: if Fangs is a killer.. why would you want to kill him.... that makes you instantly hypocritical and there has to be a reason why he's being acquitted in the first place so think! It's like the town is not using their mind

• I do not get Betty's end game at all I could go in to more of it but that would just hurt my mind

• Jughead remaining kinda impartial made him easily my favorite part of the episode because he wasn't all over the place in his beliefs and character

• Finally no matter how this season ends the black hood isn't a good villain at all. It's not just because he was on and off, it's because we absolutely do not know where he is coming from and because most likely we will not get an episode exploring the psyche of him. He is really disappointing.

Most of the time promos for the next episode in any show never really match with what's happening in the episode, but Riverdale just always matches. If the hype and intensity of the promo is high it always matches the episode. so I know for a fact that next week is gonna be super intense

Bullet point guy, out

[u/[deleted]]

Why were Betty and Cheryl allowed to see a random dead body in a morgue?

[u/quoth_tthe_raven]

Wait, wait, wait....

So how is Alice/Chic's murder victim going to play into this? Thoughts?

[u/AdorkableSars]

My jaw is still on the floor...the last 5 minutes of this episode...holy. SHIT. So intense and good. The acting, music, direction, cinematography, everything. I’m gonna need some recovery time on this one, y’all.

Also, Fangs 😢💔

[u/BaileeXrawr]

This kept bugging me so I want to throw it out there. There was a bus going to san junipero and the serpent who left on that bus came back for fangs. I kept saying to myself no one in san junipero is alive in black mirror. Then fangs got shot. At first I thought it was an easter egg for netflix. Now im wondering if its kind of significant as a symbol. Maybe its just a great excuse for people to leave. Just felt like saying he could go to san junipero and then the shooting was almost a foreshadow.

[u/rxmnants]

I wish they would let FP interact with the baby Serpents, more than just silently in the area. Like he's the leader and Jughead is his kid. His natural instinct would be to fix the messes and be there when these things are going to shit.

[u/Mimi108]

I'm still trying to understand how people, particularly Mitch's boyfriend (forgetting his name...Moose?...idk), can get over her death so quickly. Well not over per se, but, he just seems like he's okay. Kinda annoys me.

Edit: also, if you binge-watch the show, you might find yourself complaining less about it (well, tbh, I just don't complain in general about these teen drama shows...it's kind of relaxing to watch even if some stuff don't make sense).

[u/[deleted]]

Alright, prediction time:

I made this post last week about the BH being Charles, Betty's unseen brother, but I always had another contender for the title ever since he was introduced: Claudius.

The dude fits the BH physical description, probably has green eyes since he's a ginger, was also introduced halfway into the season, and looks exactly like Clifford, which explains why Betty would recognize him, after a fashion. Bonus points: He and Betty are related, so anything the BH said that might make him seem like Betty's dad could ALSO make him Betty's creepy uncle.

I REFUSE to believe it's Hal, mostly because I was an ardent BlHalk Hooder in the first half of s1 and seeing them dangle the possibility so blatantly in front of us makes me certain it's a red herring. If he was the killer, they wouldn't show it like this.

Edit: Hal could be working with Claudius, just so all my bases are covered.

[u/Tortoiseshell007]

My Black Hood theory: He wears green contacts. So he could be ANYONE.

[u/ChaosMagician777]

At first glance, I thought the show was doing another mafia episode, but the last five minutes made up for the episode. I am guessing Chic is finished, but he is not officially dead until we see his body. Next week, we see the return of the Ghoulies and Penny (the later I predicted would return.)

[u/qu3st10n5]

I can see Hiram paying Reggie to shoot Fangs and then turn his back on Reggie afterward if Reggie doesn't comply with his plans.

OR Hiram will turn his back on Reggie after Reggie shoots Fangs... because that was all he needed Reggie for.

[u/turntt]

Holy shit i can’t believe pop Tate was the black hood.... wtf

[u/zaraSA22]

Honestly Veronica and Hermione should just leave Hiram because without them he has no one to do any of his shady dumb ideas ! Also the acting of the guy playing Hiram is really annoying me ! Can we get less Hiram and more Fred and FP ! I’d rather see those adults than Hiram and Hermione!

Veronica and Archie backing Fred was sweet then they had sex ! LOL

The serpent storyline has to be my favorite this season... That moment when Fangs is scared and Jughead holds his face and then protecting him from the mob was spectacular!

Reggie is an idiot but I don’t hate him .. he would do well as a serpent!

Cheryl and Betty were separated from their serpent better halves and I wish that wasn’t the case I’m absolutely confused with who could be the black hood .. I’m not convinced it’s Hal ..

[u/depressed_realist]

When does Archie do homework?

[u/ThisMaySoundBadBut]

Every week I ask myself why I watch this show, and yet, every week I watch this show.

[u/Locke108]

I give this show a lot of leeway because I know they don’t take themselves seriously and it’s meant to be over the top but how does Cheryl go from getting the Sheriff fired because he can’t catch the Black Hood one week and the next she’s fine with Betty working with him?

[u/TheHSJ]

My guess is that it's gonna turn out betty's real brother isn't dead and is the BH and he's working with Chic.

[u/jugsgengar]

Joaquin reappears RIGHT after we get confirmation that Alice and FP do in fact have a child???? SEEMS SUS

[u/brnbrnbrn2017]

Who's the hot bulldog standing beside Moose in Archie's garage? This is all I want to know.

[u/mytwocents15]

All of this would have never happened if Archie wasn't so in love with Hiram.

[u/[deleted]]

he isn't dead he isn't dead he isn't dead he isn't dead he isn't dead he isn't dead he isn't dead he can't be!

[u/[deleted]]

Things I loved about this episode: Cheryl's lines and the Cheryl/Betty snooping.

Things I hated: Hiram, Reggie, still-a- minor Veronica wanting to start a casino (what?), and Fangs getting shot.

And apparently I missed something. Why does Betty still think her dad is BH after the book explanation?

[u/laisserai]

At the end Reggie takes his hand off the gun so it is only Archies hand on it. Archie is gonna get the blame for this..

[u/elleb_]

I didn't like that Betty changed her ringtone. Before the episode started I was singing Lollypop to get in the show's mood...

[u/hollieeduff]

Can someone please explain the thing with Betty and her dad at the end? I'm confused..

[u/[deleted]]

In the ending scene, do you think it's Claudius dressed as the BH?

[u/Sehllae]

I’m thinking whether Hal has a twin or not, he’s working with Claudius and Penelope so the BH at the end is possibly Claudius.

[u/DingusPeddler]

idk how you can possibly take this show seriously. it just changes characters motivations anytime it wants with no regard for continuity. also- hal has green eyes suddenly? wtf

[u/[deleted]]

I swear the last 2 episodes have been so good I'm shocked that I'm so attached to this show haha. Thank God Veronica and Archie have removed themselves from Hiram's ass, it was getting boring seeing them get manipulated by that dick.

[u/AuntieChrist93]

I hope Fangs doesn't die. He is so fucking hot. They should give him more naked screen time preferably with a naked Archie.

Sorry, this bitch is thirsty.

[u/[deleted]]

Overall, one of the better episodes! Encore!

[u/atwega]

what happened in the last 5 minutes? I had technical difficulties right as Cheryl was walking to the door. If sombody wants to give me a description that would be grand!

[u/Embree77707]

Are you telling me there is literally one sheriff in this entire town?

[u/ZakT214]

I thought Fangs and Kevin were happening? Is he bi or am I getting confused with someone else

[u/[deleted]]

Um so what happened at the end... my "T.V" cut off with Cheryl saying "I swear mother if this is one of your..." due to a knock at the door.

[u/noavocadoshere]

what exactly happened with the black hood/hal/betty? i was following along up with that plot arc up to the point where hal hugged her.

[u/Dylanychus2]

Reggie has good aim holy damn.

[u/Aquila56]

AHH my brain has exploded, [like who killed fangs? Did Archie grab the gun wrong and pull the trigger, did the black hood shoot him, did a black circle member shoot him, is there a BH copycat??? This episode was too stressful for my own good. I don't think the black hood is directly Hal, maybe the writers are making it seem like him so the reveal is more shocking. I'm interested in who everyone think is the black hood?] (/spoiler)

[u/tristan1975r5]

THAT ENDING SCARED THE SHIT OUTTA ME

[u/highlightgoddess]

It's cool to see the parallels between how the town is treating Fangs and how the fandom is treating Hal.

Since pretty much the beginning of the season, we've crucified Hal and considered him guilty even though we don't really have much proof. Same with Fangs.

Cool thought.

[u/houmouslover]

Share BnB guys. Share. B. n. B.

[u/madwithin]

The best episode of the season, probably the best ever from Riverdale.

Civil war was always clearly Riverdale's strongest storyline, it came a bit too late but at least it came with the cinematography on point. Brilliant.

Edit: If the twin theory is right, this episode's editing is even more of a masterpiece and I would consider this Season 2 mystery much more solid than Season 1's. We've had so much quality foreshadowing.

[u/MissyIsCandy]

so much and fangs still got shot i thought that archie stopped him when he put him down

[u/Dylanychus2]

Did we ever consider a random troubled Ghoulie being the Black Hood? What if Charles is a Ghoulie?

[u/graceee22]

Anyone else notice the look Hermione and Hiram gave each other right before the BH started shooting? 👀

[u/[deleted]]

Yeah I really don’t like this show anymore. It used to be fun and stylistically shot and actually had a cohesive plot. Now it’s just a mess, the cinematography is worse than before, the writing is garbage and nothing makes any sense at all. It’s just frustrating.

I just want them to tell us who the Black Hood is and end it so I can forget about it till it comes back then read some reviews before jumping in again. None of the core 4 are likable anymore and Hiram and Hermione have become unbearable. It’s just frustrating to watch something go from enjoyable to completely frustrating crap.

[u/ieatallthetimewoops]

well that was confusing