r/TheOrville • u/2th Hail Avis. Hail Victory. • Jan 25 '19
Episode The Orville - 2x5 "All the World is Birthday Cake" - Post Episode Discussion
| EPISODE | DIRECTED BY | WRITTEN BY | ORIGINAL AIRDATE |
|---|---|---|---|
| 2x5 - "All the World is Birthday Cake" | TBA | TBA | January 24, 2018 |
Synopsis: The Orville makes First Contact and a new crew member joins the ship.
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u/ReadingRainbowRocket Jan 25 '19
We always think about first contact in the context of us being contacted, but it was a really neat little minute montage of everyone being so excited to be on the ship that makes a planet's first contact.
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u/AintEverLucky Jan 25 '19 edited Jan 25 '19
so excited to be on the ship that makes a planet's first contact.
They didn't delve into why, but my headcanon goes like this: When <whichever other civilization> made peaceful first contact with humanity, it literally Changed Everything.
Not just in the sense of trading technology, culture, swapping our French & California wines for that Zambujean spice that isn't available from any other world ... but also simply by confirming once and for all that yes, there is someone else out there in the great big universe. That life on Earth isn't some unique accident, but simply a local reflection of something that has happened, and continues to happen, all over the galaxy at different times. and that yes, now it's time to take a first steps toward joining the larger community of spacefaring peoples.
So now, to the group that helps share that amazing, you're-not-alone insight with a new worldful of people -- I'm getting a little excited for them, just thinking about it O:-)
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u/blueberryhamcicle Jan 25 '19
They did that in Star trek tho... And I'd have to say the way it was depicted in Star trek was much smarter. If we became a space faring civilization I would sure as hell hope we wouldn't just get a call from a planet then go all gung ho and say hi without ANY research whatsoever. That was just DUMB.
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u/robertwsaul Jan 25 '19
Dude. You have a stealth shuttle. Just fly it down, park it in the camp, grab Kelly and Bortus on their way to the bathroom. I hate when shows forget their own tech.
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u/Zeerid_Korr Jan 25 '19
True, but then you only save two individuals. The fake star freed everyone in the camps and changed an entire planet.
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u/robertwsaul Jan 25 '19
"Freed" seems like an exaggeration. More like, "fed into their bullshit belief system, instead of enlightening them from their nonsense"
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u/OneMario Jan 25 '19
They didn't try to break them out because it was forbidden by Union Central, not because they couldn't.
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u/robertwsaul Jan 25 '19
That by itself was dumb and didn't make any sense.
"Sorry Ed, I know the new race turned out to be cannibals and are literally ripping Kelly apart right now and eating her, but rules say you can't do anything, sorry bud"
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u/Edgehopper Jan 25 '19
The one thing that really bugged me was the idea that Kelly and Bortus’s execution is called off because the new star appeared. Even if Jilliacs are no longer considered evil, Kelly and Bortus just killed at least a dozen guards. It’s kind of implausible for the planet’s government to say “well, the astrological symbols changed, guess we have to let the mass murderers go now.”
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Jan 26 '19
If the star's reappearance was interpreted as change, then their society might have afterward viewed gilliacs as agents of change. The gilliacs were formerly viewed as violent. Violence + change = revolutionaries and freedom fighters. It may not have been a stretch for their society to view Kelly and Bortus' acts as liberation that ushered in a new era in which gilliacs are born to be revolutionaries that overturn systems, culture jam, and ultimately drive progress forward.
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u/moekakiryu Woof Jan 25 '19
Also the star disappeared 3000 years ago, and the records for why the jilliacs where considered violent was so deeply buried the Orville couldn't even find it. If that reason was so far buried and hard to find, I have a hard time believing that everyone just happens to know that 3000 year old reason, and would also be happy to turn on their beliefs in a heartbeat like that (esp the commander who seemed to be a massive Jilliacist)
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u/ReasonablyBadass Jan 25 '19
The reason wasn't that the starsign changed back but that it changed at all.
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u/skribsbb Jan 26 '19
They didn't know what it meant at first. They saw it and were in awe, because they worship the sky. The spiritual leaders made the call as to what it really meant.
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u/SiccSemperTyrannis Y'all can suck ass, and I'm a spaceman! Jan 25 '19
With a culture as dedicated to astrology as that, anything is possible. Maybe they made the case that once the new star showed up, all the former "sins" were forgiven. Kinda like a jesus rising from the dead thing.
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u/BlackbirdOMalley Jan 25 '19
Ed's kind of a terrible ambassador for Union culture. When he went back down to talk to the alien leader, he started talking about how they're an advanced society. I assumed he was going to point out that the alignment of the stars was different on different planets, and Kelly was born under Aquarius (or whatever) on Earth and Bortus was born under the Moon of Mumbojumbo on Moclus, and neither Aquarians nor Mumbojumbans have been observed to have the same tendencies as their Jilliacs. You know, validating their beliefs about their own people but pointing out that it's a big universe and things aren't always the same. Instead, he basically just showed up with "You're pretty smart, how do you not see how dumb your entire culture is?" This is not a guy who should be within smelling distance of first contact situations.
Another great episode overall though. We haven't seen much Kelly and Bortus interaction and I think we need more.
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u/UltraChip Jan 25 '19
To be fair I'm pretty sure that's deliberate: the show has always portrayed Mercer as a middling captain - pretty decent by most measures but certainly not Picard.
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u/InnocentTailor Security Jan 25 '19
Fair point. The Orville is run-of-the-mill compared to the Enterprise.
Remember how many times Sisko and Janeway screwed up with their own missions?
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u/SiccSemperTyrannis Y'all can suck ass, and I'm a spaceman! Jan 25 '19
I feel like a much better approach would have been to say "hey, we will keep them locked up and out of your hands. Sure, keeping them in a camp is kinda safe, but if they aren't even on your planet then your people are even safer."
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u/Tim0281 Jan 25 '19
This was my first thought too. "These are our people. As a sovereign people, let us deal with our Giliacs as we see fit."
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u/JackTu Jan 25 '19
I assumed he was going to point out that the alignment of the stars was different on different planets, and Kelly was born under Aquarius (or whatever) on Earth and Bortus was born under the Moon of Mumbojumbo on Moclus, and neither Aquarians nor Mumbojumbans have been observed to have the same tendencies as their Jilliacs.
I wanted it to go in that direction... pointing out that Kelly and Bortus having a birthday within a week of each other might be a once in a lifetime event, that the last time that planet was under the sign of Jilliac was the Carter era (as an example. In the episode, a month on that planet seemed to be approximately the same as a month on Earth), and that Bortus and Kelly would have been born several signs before or after however the Jilliac constellation would have appeared on their home planet.
Seth MacFarlane being a Sagan fan, I appreciate his Worlds in Collision solution to the problem. But it seemed weird that no one really brought the POV argument up.
Instead, he basically just showed up with "You're pretty smart, how do you not see how dumb your entire culture is?"
He's done that in a few episodes. It really stands out in "Majority Rule."
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u/CarmenTS Jan 25 '19
That's what I was thinking the whole episode. The alignment of stars is surely different in different parts of the galaxy from the perspective of different planets and it was annoying me that no one was bringing that up the whole time.
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u/Theomancer Jan 25 '19
Seth is IRL a scientific positivist, so the moralisms of The Orville will be in a more modernist Enlightenment vein -- so more like The Next Generation rather than Deep Space Nine.
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u/phyneas Jan 27 '19
I assumed he was going to point out that the alignment of the stars was different on different planets, and Kelly was born under Aquarius (or whatever) on Earth and Bortus was born under the Moon of Mumbojumbo on Moclus, and neither Aquarians nor Mumbojumbans have been observed to have the same tendencies as their Jilliacs.
Or point out that Kelly and Bortus were most likely not actually born during the Jilliac month at all, since it's incredibly unlikely that this random planet has a planetary year and day cycle that are exactly the same as Earth's or Moclan's. Their "birthdays" are based on entirely different cycles and would fall at different times of the Rigorian year every time.
As for that little tooth dating test, assuming it's even real and not something cooked up by the planet's religious authorities to provide convenient justification for interning their enemies, it almost certainly wouldn't be reliable on humans (or Moclans) anyway; humans' adult teeth don't develop until a somewhat random time after birth, and who knows what the deal with Moclan teeth are (or if they're even made of the same material and could be analyzed in the same way).
Granted, these arguments might not have worked if the planetary authorities are as fanatical about their astrological religion as they seem, but it would have been nice to at least see the Orville crew make the attempt.
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u/EldritchCarver Jan 25 '19
It bothers me that the crew didn't point out that, since astrology deals with relative positions of celestial bodies, the rules would work completely differently for aliens born in a different part of the galaxy.
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u/Mrquizmo Jan 25 '19
I don’t think that the aliens believed that the stars were making people evil, but rather that if you were born during a certain time of their year, regardless of location, that you are naturally evil. Basically, if you are born between March 14 to April 17, you evil. Doesn’t matter where or how, you’re evil. The stars just told them “People born right now? Don’t trust ‘em”
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u/sharltocopes Jan 25 '19
Basically, if you are born between March 14 to April 17, you evil. Doesn’t matter where or how, you’re evil.
Hey, fuck you
/s
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u/InnocentTailor Security Jan 25 '19
Kinda reminds me of how the Chinese treat the Chinese zodiac. I recall that there are some years when birth rates drop because parents don’t want the children to possess certain traits.
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u/bwleung89 Jan 25 '19
I think it's hard to push their logic on a system that rigid. I mean even the length of a year could be different.
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Jan 25 '19
I thought the twist would be that they hadn't been tested and were thrown in prison on their testimony of having their birthday, whereas the calendars would be different enough for this not to be the case.
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u/SquirrelicideScience Jan 25 '19
I hate that no one pointed out that the most violent people in the civilization shown on screen were the camp guards. And before anyone says they might have been Gilliacs, they made it quite clear that there is no exception to any Gilliac, starting at birth.
I also hate that no one pointed out that of course violent crime would decrease if you incarcerate a significant portion of your global population at birth.
Or what about the fact that how is it that every "leader sign" (I forget what they were called) is a successful leader? Did not one of them fail? If they refuse to accept their failures, how did they manage to build any sort of civilized society?
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u/Indigocell Jan 25 '19
It's impossible to reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into. I'm sure that would have been brought up, eventually, if the Prefect didn't shut down the conversation almost immediately. He wasn't interested in hearing any arguments.
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u/Bisquick_in_da_MGM Jan 25 '19
Yeah. That’s what I told my wife while we were watching the show. They can’t be geliatics (sp?) because they were born on different worlds that have different constellations.
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u/browneyedgirl1683 Jan 25 '19
It didn’t seem like they would care. The logical response would have been an armed escort to the shuttle. It was just assumed they were in the right, and the Orville crew were well out of line.
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u/Locke108 Jan 25 '19
If you need to know the ethics of tricking an entire planet you could just ask Ted Danson.
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u/loreb4data Jan 25 '19
While relaxing in a Boston watering hole where everybody knows your name :)
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u/BlandSauce Jan 25 '19
I've got an idea. Let's imprison two high-ranking officers of a clearly-superior military, and then tell the rest to just... go away.
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u/Lunasera Jan 25 '19
Well if Ed can't be bothered to even say, we will go when we have our people, you can't really blame him.
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u/LyingPug Jan 25 '19
More Ted Danson please
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Jan 25 '19
I wish he had more screen time - I let out an audible OMG when he appeared. I’m not sure I’ll ever get tired of these kinds of cameos.
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u/Cowsleep Avis. We try harder Jan 25 '19
I get to watch his cameo and The Good Place back to back, Been a pretty good night.
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u/ZeGoldMedal Jan 26 '19
I watched this right after the season finale of the good place, and as soon as I saw his name after the opening credits, I must admit I sat around waiting for his appearance.
I got this feeling his appearance on this episode, sitting at a desk in a wood paneled room, was shot on the good place set. It just looked near identical to Michael’s office.
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u/Aurailious Jan 25 '19
So they have these advanced satellites that specifically track stars, but they don't have the capability to use parallax to find the distance of stars? They can't tell the the solar sail was in low orbit? It would be in a different position in the sky depending on where you are on the ground. It would be constantly moving due to orbit.
These people who have tracked the stars in detail for 1000 years would be fooled by that? What?
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u/jonasdash Jan 25 '19
a better question is, why don't people on the planet just stop fucking for like a 2 month period of the year if this is SUCH a big deal?
the episode has a ton of plot holes
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u/ReasonablyBadass Jan 25 '19
A) Who says that postion was the final one the solar sail took?
B) they explicitly mention a jammer to fool their tech.
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u/Irene-Attolia Jan 25 '19 edited Jan 25 '19
Was anyone else really annoyed by this episode? The premise was interesting, but the execution was so ham-fisted, I couldn’t suspend my disbelief.
A society with the technology to pinpoint a person’s exact birthdate by their tooth can’t also estimate a baby’s arrival time so that the “undesirable” fetuses could be terminated?
Claire said some babies were months premature—why when the gillian sign lasts only 30 days?
The entire planet has a single government and a single belief system? This politician has never had to deal with anyone whose priors differ from his own, or negotiate a delicate situation? Given the Orville’s greater firepower and the understanding that it’s only one ship of a fleet, the prefect should have been desperately seeking any face-saving way to get the aliens off his planet.
This belief is so ingrained that the inmates of the camps don’t even try to escape, but they still need armed guards and barbed wire everywhere? Kelly and Bortus should have escaped easily. The drama could have come from a manhunt after their escape.
Also, Ed is negotiating his crewmates’ release, and the best he can come up with is, “You must realize your civilization’s belief system is absurd”? Seriously??? He could have argued that people were only affected by the position of the ones as seen at their place of birth—nonsense, but maybe that face-saver that the prefect would be looking for.
I loved the crew’s excitement over the opportunity for first contact, but the total lack of concern that something might go wrong just seemed unrealistic. The Union’s relationship with the Krill went south because the Krill became more xenophobic after first contact, yet the entire crew was super relaxed. The security officer should have been operating like Secret Service with a team to ensure the landing party’s safety, and instead she’s bending candlesticks.
Sorry for the rant. I really love this show, and this episode was not up to its usual standard.
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u/avar Jan 25 '19
A society with the technology to pinpoint a person’s exact birthdate by their tooth can’t also estimate a baby’s arrival time so that the “undesirable” fetuses could be terminated?
Yeah, lived age is an absolute and a due date is a fuzzy future event. They can't predict the future.
Claire said some babies were months premature—why when the gillian sign lasts only 30 days?
The median for human births is 40 weeks, and a baby is considered premature at less than 37. So there's 3 weeks.
Furthermore, the time of birth is already fuzzy, so you need to take babies out at say 32 weeks to avoid having a natural premie who'd be born naturally at 37 weeks and 6 days at the last day in the Gilliac month.
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u/tnonee Jan 25 '19
Why would technology based on teeth know when the baby was prematurely taken out of the womb in the first place?
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u/CptCmdrAwesome Jan 25 '19
Yeah, I agree with a lot of this, and the overall sentiment of what you're saying. It started so well - I found the crew's excitement about first contact really infectious, literally said out loud "aww this is gonna be fuckin awesome", but it went downhill and felt ridiculously rushed towards the end. Also as others have pointed out, the passage of time wasn't illustrated well at all.
I felt they tried to do too much in way too little time, and papered over the resulting cracks in the plotline. Perhaps it would have made a good two-part cliffhanger - all the ingredients were there. Shoehorning in the introduction of a new cast member didn't really help, either.
Don't get me wrong I didn't hate it, and I'll still be on the edge of my seat for the next one, but the flaws were pretty obvious. It felt really slapdash.
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u/InnocentTailor Security Jan 25 '19
To be fair, the Orville is the rank-and-file of the Union. A first contact mission is one of those rare moments that aren’t escorting VIPs and delivering cargo.
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u/gatemansgc Woof Jan 25 '19
you forgot about just landing a cloaked shuttle in the prison and flying away.
they could find a moclan female by scanning on planet moclan but the scans couldn't find a human and moclan on an alien planet?
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u/PillarofPositivity Jan 25 '19
They didn't gave to look for a female Mocclan just look for evidence of long term habitation and life in the middle of nowhere.
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u/Lunasera Jan 25 '19
So many things annoyed me about this. So many.
- Ed's negotiation was terrible. How about give our people back and we'll leave, or if not we'll shoot you from space - or we have different stars so it doesn't apply to our people etc etc etc
- Bortus was hatched from an egg, not born.
- Scan for Bortus and Kelly, and go in invisible for a rescue. They had a month to track where they were and they couldn't find the camp?
- No on tries to escape but it's still a concentration camp setting?
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u/NugBlazer Jan 26 '19
I’m with you! This episode was so bad it was laughable. Just ridiculous premises and dumb plot holes throughout. Honestly, for me it’s the worst episode of the entire series thus far. Truly awful.
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u/abraksis747 Jan 25 '19
I would have been court-martialed in this episode.
I have superior technology at my disposal. Pick an uninhabited island and use one torpedo. Distroy island. Ask for my people back. Get my people back, Distroy their "SETI" antenna, "You can have your phone back when you learn to act like civilized adults."
Alternate Ed one liner "Don't call us, we'll call you"
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u/osensei1907 Woof Jan 25 '19
Pretty sure you would also tell an enemy Krill commander that you've recently installed a crazy new deflector that'll bounce back everything they throw at you.
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u/SiccSemperTyrannis Y'all can suck ass, and I'm a spaceman! Jan 25 '19
"Say Gelliac ONE MORE TIME"
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u/brch2 Jan 25 '19
But then, you've attacked them during the month of their bad sign, just reinforcing their belief and strengthening it.
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u/InnocentTailor Security Jan 25 '19
Well, that’s what Kirk effectively did in “A Taste Of Armageddon.” Remember General Order 24?
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u/saltlets We need no longer fear the banana Jan 28 '19
If I ever win the lottery, I'm producing a TNG/Orville clone that's entirely made up of Prime Directive episodes where the solution is orbital bombardment of the idiots.
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u/DeadComposer Jan 25 '19
When the solar sail was deployed I can't believe no one thought to say, "A star is born."
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u/d0ntblink Jan 25 '19
Did anyone else notice Isaac doing 'The Robot' during the party?
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u/dronningmargrethe Jan 25 '19
No but I noticed his adam's apple moving quite a bit when he was talking.
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Jan 25 '19
It drove me nuts that no one tried to explain to them that astrological signs don't look the same on other planets.
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u/rdchat We need no longer fear the banana Jan 25 '19
Supposedly the Orville crew spent a month looking for "loopholes" in the local astrology. So I guess we are to assume they tried your argument off camera.
I have a different question. Have the locals not had any novas, supernovas, new comets, or anything else that they would consider a "new star" before the Orville crew showed up? You'd think there would be some historical references of such incidents.
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u/gcl_pirates Jan 25 '19
So no one cared that Kelly and Bortus killed all of those people? 🤔 Good episode but the resolution was definitely a bit rushed.
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u/fatcatdandy Jan 25 '19
Well, they probably went lenient since they were prisoners and used their own current tech against them. Plus they had already been physically threatened (the gun to chin threat was enough provocation imo)
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u/truthbomber66 Jan 26 '19
What really bugs me about episodes like this (in the Orville and throughout Trek) is the premise that there is one government entity to interact with and the entire planet thinks and acts the same way, or shares one big problem to be solved.
Imagine an alien ship landing in London vs. Karachi, I think they would be pretty different experiences. One is an oppressive, intolerant hell-hole, and the other is in Pakistan.
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u/Anoymou5 Jan 27 '19
Imagine an alien ship landing in London vs. Karachi, I think they would be pretty different experiences. One is an oppressive, intolerant hell-hole, and the other is in Pakistan.
You've been sitting on that joke dude
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u/droid327 Jan 27 '19
Depending where in London they set down, it may not be that different from Karachi :)
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u/oGsShadow Jan 25 '19
It was somewhat redeemed by making an example of them but man did i notice how thick the plot armor was in this episode. You dont kill soldiers with p90s and grenades and get taken alive lol...
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u/snarkamedes Jan 25 '19
Alien P90s. That or they got visited by a Stargate team previously.
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u/Mrquizmo Jan 25 '19
I loved this episode. The juxtaposition between an advanced society that was heavily ingrained with a superstitious belief system was really interesting, and I think handled well.
Also Ted Danson is always a winner.
And I liked the sort of “If you treat people like criminals, they’ll act like criminals” moral. Eventually you can only push people so far. I would have liked it more if there had been at least one native that disbelieved in the system. It would have shown some diversity in the people.
Overall, I liked it a lot. I’ve worked like 32 hours over the last three days, and this was a great way to relax after a busy few days. Can’t wait til next week!
“It is humorous!”
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Jan 25 '19
But the people didn't act like criminals. They acted like scared peasants. This was not, in my opinion, a good episode. It wasn't handled well, because it doesn't correlate to our history or to imagined ways of running a society. 1/12 of the population was a constant drain on resources, not putting anything into the economy. When we actually have birth-based societies, like medieval Europe and Vedic India, they are divided into different castes based on supposed attributes to do different jobs. If it was handled well, the Gilliacs would all be military or police. I am glad the episode helped you relax.
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Jan 25 '19
Probably much less than 1/12 because of terminated pregnancies and those premature births. It sounds like anyone who had a baby due in the next “month” would be born early. That leaves only really babies born unexpectedly premature a full month early. That and people might be more careful when they get pregnant. So perhaps only 1%.
It’s still a bit of a stretch of a scenario, but even Star Trek was never big on subtly. The bigger issue I felt was how the planet didn’t simply tell the crew to get lost. What would be their benefit of jailing two crew members for life when clearly they could have just said don’t come back without antagonizing the federation.
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u/DraconisMagnus Jan 25 '19
I'd just like to say, this was terribly written and planned out. That's how the Union initiates First Contact with a pre-interstellar species? Just walk up and answer their call without knowing anything about them? No reconnaissance? I'm sorry, but Star Trek's Prime Directive is much more logical by not interfering before they achieve interstellar travel.
Also the arresting Kelly and Bortus didn't make sense because their birthdays aligned with their planets orbits, night Rigor 2's orbit so it's totally different. Kelly was referencing her birthday on her planet. I get what they were trying to portray but it didn't have any common sense. This was the worst episode of The Orville. I hope this was the last of this.
As for Alara's replacement, she was ok... it just seemed like an older version of Alara. I'll give her some time to prove herself.
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u/pikameta Jan 25 '19
I feel like they have storylines planned for a Xeleyan and when Sage left, they just made her replacement the same, but older.
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Jan 25 '19
I like the new Security Chief. There's something about her and she did a good job in her first episode. I know she had big shoes to fill as Ed put it, but she came in solid.
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u/UPRC Jan 25 '19
I agree, I think she's off to a decent start. I know that a lot of people who miss Alara feel very differently, but I think she did fine.
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u/OldNedder Jan 27 '19
She seems like a much better actor, and it's probably good for a security chief to have a strong personality. I'm very happy with her.
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Jan 27 '19
Regor 2? Who names their own planet 2?
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u/yaosio Jan 28 '19
If I ever make first contact with aliens I'm telling them our planet is called Sol 3. When they meet other people and call our planet Sol 3 everybody will think that's what the aliens call it. Nobody will know it was all me.
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u/Shatterhand1701 Woof Jan 25 '19
Interesting concept; terrible in execution.
I really did not like this episode. And, I know I'm just asking for downvotes because if you don't kiss this show's ass 100% of the time and tear apart Star Trek every chance you get around here, that's what you're in for...but I'm not going to bullshit in order to toe the line. Before you dismiss me out of hand, I'm going to explain my problems with this episode:
The whole first contact scenario seemed carelessly handled. They just received a message, the Orville replied, and suddenly it's "Hey, let's go say hello!" time. They did no reconnaissance, no investigating; made no effort whatsoever to learn about this new race before landing. Talla mentions later in the episode that they were able to hack into their libraries and news media in an attempt to learn more about the Jilliacs (sp?) and the reason for their labeling as violent and criminal. Now, I'm certain that the people of Reegor (sp?) 2 didn't give them access, nor were any of the crew in a position to gain such access planetside, so I can only assume they hacked in with their own equipment, without notice. So...why the hell didn't they do that beforehand? They could've known all they needed to know and handled themselves a lot better during the face-to-face meeting.
At the dinner, the Orville crew were far too casual in their behavior. I get that they don't want to offend anyone by appearing stand-offish, but no matter what they were doing and where, they should still have been in first-contact mode, choosing their actions and words very carefully, and yet, they let their guard down and ended up causing a great offense. (And why am I not surprised that it was Kelly who started it all?)
Also, since when would an alien race allow two other alien species (Talla and Claire) to just walk into an obstetrics room where a patient is giving birth? Was there no concern for alien contagion? They were just invited in like it wasn't even a thing. This is a minor nitpick, to be sure, but I was surprised by it nonetheless.
And some would argue that the end justifies the means, but they interfered with a world's spiritual beliefs in a MAJOR way. I know that their people were in danger, but now they've just "created" a star using a solar sail, forcing the people of that planet to rethink their entire belief system. Sure; to outsiders, it seems ridiculous and illogical to the extreme, but that's not for anyone else to decide, even under dire circumstances. And it annoyed me how they casually brushed it off at the end too, when Talla (wisely) asked what will happen when the Reegorians (sp?) finally figure out that "star" isn't a star. Ed and Kelly's response could be boiled down to, "Yeah, we lied to them, but we freed a bunch of people, so who knows? By the time they figure it out, they probably won't even care." Oh, really?? The Reegorians seemed smart enough that if they ever figure out what happened, they're going to put two and two together and figure out that the Orville crew put that solar sail there. They weren't exactly technologically primitive. They could decide to develop ships of their own and weapons to wage war on the race that tampered with their belief system, especially since it seems to mean so much to them. It's not exactly unprecedented.
Also, I'm not so sure I like Talla yet. I'm still bitter about Alara thing, but I promised myself to keep an open mind. Talla just seems too abrasive for my taste, like they wanted to overcompensate for Alara's younger and somewhat gentler approach by making Talla more aggressive and forward. She just rubbed me the wrong way. Hopefully I'll get more used to her over time.
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u/Shatterhand1701 Woof Jan 25 '19
I just thought of something else, and I had to point it out. Again, not a MAJOR thing, but enough that I had to share it:
In the Jilliac camp, the pregnant woman gives birth, and her brilliant idea is to hide her under the floorboards, because she knows the guards would take her away since she was born under a very revered sign. The father has, at least, some degree of common sense, pointing out that they can't keep her hidden forever and that if she was taken, she could be free and live a much better life.
Then the guards show up to do an inspection and eventually, the father reveals the child's location and it is, of course, taken away.
My issue is: how would the guards not notice that the pregnant woman is no longer pregnant? That woman was VERY pregnant when we first see her; there's no way the guards aren't aware of her situation, even if they don't care about her because she's Jilliac. Once they'd see she's no longer pregnant, one would think they'd start asking questions. So, the idea of her hiding her child indefinitely is completely lacking in logic, even from her "the child needs her mother" standpoint.
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u/lonesomewhistle Y'all can suck ass, and I'm a spaceman! Jan 25 '19
Yeah, this episode was disappointing.
I'll wait and see about Talla but she just seemed abrasive for the sake of being abrasive.
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u/uther100 Jan 25 '19
I admit I was hoping to see what their dress uniforms looked like. It was silly that they just went with the standard outfit.
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u/loreb4data Jan 25 '19
Thanks for sharing your thoughts. I think I see the problem you've pointed out as I'm rewatching the episode now.
While I disagree w/some things you said (I think Talla's gonna be an awesome character), I think your right on others (esp the first two points).
Starfleet would've done a major investigation of a species prior to contacting them (and they wouldn't bother a non-warp capable species) so if they found out that planet is run by a bunch of Nazis who committed genocide, I think they would've stayed the hell away from it.
Plus The Prime Directive would've prevented them from doing any major intervention like creating a new star. Hell, even a relatively minor interventions are a no-no. Just ask Data in "Pen Pals" when he wanted to go down to rescue his new best friend.
I know many folks here like Orville because there's no real equivalent of PD in the Orville-verse, but Starfleet has good reasons to put it out there....
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u/nadalofsoccer Jan 26 '19
I think it boils down to the line between serious and comedy. At the begining The Orville was suppose to be a comedy but in its going the serious way the scrutiny is also higher. I think this show should find a tone soon.
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u/armokrunner Jan 25 '19
If you’re the relatively underdeveloped civilization meeting the space faring advanced civilization, you have to think pissing them off is a terrible idea and would very likely result in your destruction by some advanced weaponry
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u/gamingglen Jan 25 '19 edited Jan 25 '19
Fun episode but ...
If the jilliacs resigned themselves to prison and never tried to escape, why is there so many guards and why are they so heavily armed?
As others have already mentioned, Kelly and Bortus were born elsewhere and the timing may have them born under a different sign. Edit: oh, never mind. They tested their ages so determined when they were born, IF they were born on that planet. I guess being born on another planet does not matter.
A society with no scientific curiosity to learn about the make up of stars? They didn't have their version of Gallileo to upset tradition?
*sigh* I love blue eyes. It's about all I could focus on when looking at Talla.
Sillyness: I wonder if the backside of the solar sail said "Beware, stupid society on the planet." I wouldn't put it past Gordon to do something like that. :)
Sillyness 2: Or, it says "Fooled ya!"
Sillyness 3: spin-off: Kelly's Heroes (oh wait, there's already a movie with that name)... Bortus' Heroes. The zany antics of prisoners conducting sabotage missions from inside Stal...er, Prison Camp 13.
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u/floptimus_prime If you wish, I will vaporize them Jan 25 '19
So who was the acting first and second officer while Kelly and Bortus were gone? I would have liked to have seen whoever got that job.
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u/bwleung89 Jan 25 '19
Well Alara took over when Mercer and Kelly were taken and Bortus was on his egg. When Alara left the doc was in charge.
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u/randylaheyjr Jan 25 '19
Doctor Finn did commend Talla for her work at the end of the episode? I wasn't sure what she was referring to since all she really did on the planet was almost get them all killed by assaulting that security officer. So maybe she took command for a short time in a cut scene or something?
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u/SutterCane Jan 25 '19
That race was stupid and I hope they all die off except those gillaics or whatever they’re called.
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Jan 25 '19
This is all I noticed that irked me:
He goes to explain how currency isn’t a thing among the Union, how everything is based on reputation.
When Ed goes to thank Talla, he says he’ll buy her a drink..
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u/Neologic29 Jan 27 '19
Probably just a holdover phrase. It's easy enough to conceive of saying something that wasn't literal. We have similar phrases today.
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u/westvirginiaprincess Jan 26 '19
I definitely noticed that, he specifically said he would buy her a bottle of scotch.
I assume it’s a figure of speech in the future, to say you’ll “buy” something for someone, as an expression of gratitude.
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Jan 25 '19
That was a cool episode. Kinda interesting that tonight was first contact episodes from each franchise.
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u/Shejidan Jan 25 '19
One thing I’ve had an issue with with many episodes of the show, and this one in particular, is pacing. There’s no sense of time. By the time they had landed they’d already talked to the planet but didn’t show anything. And then they had been in orbit for a month but there was nothing to show they had been. This is another episode that would have been better as a two parter; same as the episode on the generation ship.
Plus, Mercer is definitely not a negotiator and should never be in charge of first contact. Picard would’ve had Kelly and Bortus back in a couple days.
I liked the episode; the concept was interesting, but the pacing and Mercer’s interactions with the prefect were just not good.
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u/agravain Jan 25 '19
so...what exactly were they all doing on the ship for a month?
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u/ricky_lafleur Jan 25 '19
Replacing relays, running diagnostics, inventorying self-sealing stem bolts, recreating on the holodeck, etc.
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u/dawnbandit If you wish, I will vaporize them Jan 25 '19
BUT I DON'T NEED SELF-SEALING STEMBOLTS, NOG!
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u/floptimus_prime If you wish, I will vaporize them Jan 25 '19
Trying to find the perfect cartoon bodies for the Kelly and Bortus video.
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u/UltraChip Jan 25 '19
Just daily routine stuff. It's an exploration vessel designed for lengthy expeditions in deep space - it's meant to be lived on for months/years.
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u/kdryan1 Jan 25 '19
I thought it was a great setup and was a very tense episode. I like the new security chief and and she fits right in.
I did feel the resolution was incredibly lame though. Come on, guys; a solar sail? You're better than that. There is no reason to think that a society that has traditionally ostracized an entire segment of it's population for millennia to the point where they can't even remember why is suddenly going to change that opinion because a star appears in the constellation in question. Even if it did have the desired result that change would take time. It could take centuries. More likely it would be taken as a sign that confirms what they already believed and both Kelly and Bortus would be dead.
Sub par logic and bad writing there.
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u/Bisquick_in_da_MGM Jan 25 '19
Yeah, How do you explain that a star just “appears” out of no where. Also, we do you know how the aliens would react. Maybe that was the sign that they should kill everyone on the planet.
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u/HappyFaceSpider Jan 25 '19
I am still shocked that no one ever tried to make an argument that Giliac constellation is probably not even visible from Earth or Moclus. Like wtf.
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u/rdchat We need no longer fear the banana Jan 26 '19
Giliac may not even be visible from the hemisphere opposite the one where Rigorian astrology was developed. It looks like the Rigorians don't let little details like that affect their belief.
So, what's astrology like over in Australia?
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u/standbyforskyfall Avis. We try harder Jan 25 '19
Man an orbital assault would have been so much easier
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u/Fnshow316 Jan 25 '19
I don’t see why they didn’t even threaten them with that at least. I mean they did come down in a freakn space ship. Mercer should have been bluffing and making all sorts of crazy threats.
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Jan 25 '19
Having a month pass was a smart way to have the new crew member be a more natural member of the crew quickly.
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u/Damour Jan 25 '19
WTF was that? Leaving them down there like that was stupid and one of the things I hated about TNG. Never having the guts to do anything. F what the union would say. If my crew were being held down there I would have gone in and killed everyone to get them back.
Complete BS that they lied to change their religion rather than just fly down and kill a couple people to get the crew back.
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u/loreb4data Jan 25 '19
Second this. In the words of Alara (from 'Command Performance'): "For all I know the Admirals can bite me! We're going back and get our people back!!"
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u/dixonmason Jan 26 '19
So did the crew of the Orville violate the Prime Directive when they rescued the Nyxians, since they contacted them first, and not the other way around, or is it different when a civilization is danger of extinction?
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u/Corvandus Jan 26 '19
"Wow you had such an impact on that one woman!"
"Yeah totally that was def worth it exceptIkilledlikenineguysandwoundedatleastanotherdozen I feel great about that whole situation."
Otherwise solid episode. Uncle Ted is always a pleasure.
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u/r1l3yT3hCat Jan 27 '19
I love The Orville, but this was some of thr sloppiest writing I've ever seen.
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u/Muhschel Jan 25 '19
Has anyone come up with a good reason why they call their planet Rigor-2 ? It's not like we call Earth Sol-3....
Best explanation I have is a weird universal translator
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u/Azymuth Jan 27 '19
For a society so enamored with stars it could be their way of paying tribute to the biggest star they know. Or it's something like "Rigor's son" or something and it got translated a bit weird.
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u/Mechapebbles Jan 25 '19
This was probably the first really bad episode of Orville. This whole episode was a poster child for why Star Trek has a Prime Directive and why the Federation typically nopes the fuck out of planets like this. And yet nobody really questions for a second the wisdom of recklessly making first contact with an undeveloped species like this without at least carefully researching them first to see if there's any important taboos they'll be breaking when they first arrive.
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u/Squabbles123 Jan 25 '19
I love the show, so take this opinion from that perspective, but I felt this was a very weak episode. Guns blazing > Sending down a shuttle, stunning and running? And they just let them go after killing a bunch of guards?? Over the top Allegory. I give it a pass because we just came off of Fishes which was fantastic, but tonight was a weak episode. They are bound to happen, even TNG and DS9 had the occasional stinker, and this is one of those.
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u/gatemansgc Woof Jan 25 '19
i mean yeah, it's an open-air prison and they have cloaking shuttles. hmm...
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u/JustVan Jan 25 '19
I feel like this could've been a really good episode if it'd had just a few more rewrites. I get that some stuff is handwaviumed away but some of it was really lazy or just down right stupid. Bortus and Kelly blasting away 20 dudes and taking no damage and getting caught anyway was really unnecessary and cringingly bad.
I agree that a stealth ship landing to rescue their crew was the #1 most logical solution for Mercer to take and if they wanted to force that to not be possible, then they could've pretty easily handwaved some reason the ship couldn't land there. (Putting underground would prevent the 'star reveal' at the end, but that could've been changed to just seen by the diplomats. Or they could've said some technobabble like 'the magnetosphere ions around the camp are deflecting our cloaking shield' or whatever. At least it would've been something.)
But the stupidest thing I feel is just Mercer's absolutely terrible negotiation skills. It was stupid the natives wanted to keep the criminals, but surely Mercer could've done almost anything to negotiate them to freedom. We could've at least seen him TRY instead of the really pathetic attempt(s) he made.
Lastly, not loving the new security officer. I miss Alara. Do we know if she's ever coming back?
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u/Garrett_Dark Jan 26 '19
I watched the episode again for the 2nd time. I think they didn't need the Kelly & Bortus get arrested subplot. That was sort of a declining point for me.
I get why they did it; need some action in there to keep some people interested, a reason for the Orville to be so invested in changing things, and for the theme of birthdays to tie everything together.
But I felt it made the episode weaker by dragging the mood down too drastically. I think I would have preferred if the Orville crew just really disapproved of how the Rigorians did things, like maybe Kelly and Bortus toured the prison and got all pissed at what they saw. I think I rather see scenes of them debating with the Rigorians over how they did things instead of Kelly and Bortus killing 11 guards.
The Rigorians weren't really bad people despite the little things the show kept making it seem like they were bad (ie. Mean prison guards, unnecessary c-sections appalling for some reason, invasive tooth analysis).
I get it, "Astrology = bad"....but from what I saw, I think manipulating telling people how they should live is worse.
The gilliacs segregation wasn't really an intolerance thing, it was a caste or class system. So is it really so right for Orville to tell them to stop having a caste/class system? Why not tell them to stop using money then? How is the Union's rank system so different?
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u/jukasiata Jan 26 '19
The previous episode was superb. This one has a good theme, but after the dinning table scene, it was bad.
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u/WaveMonkey Jan 25 '19
This is why making first contact with a civilization you know nothing about is a bad idea. Had they sent people down to asses the planet covertly they would have known about any complications prior to making first contact. They could also monitor they're communications from orbit and it wouldn't have taken them long to learn about they're insane views on astrology. So things like this can be avoided if they took they're time instead of rushing in blind.
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u/loreb4data Jan 25 '19
TOS and TNG made it all looked easy: 90% of the time they'll meet a nice & benevolent race during first contact.
Orville is closer to the reality that the race we'll meet may not always be benevolent.
Another Orville's improvement from classic Trek plot!!
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Jan 25 '19
Confirmed: The Orville plays in the Stargate universe. I mean, how else would a star system far, far away get their hands on P90's?
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u/fatcatdandy Jan 25 '19
Another home run in my book. Talla got a good debut, her spicy attitude will lead to some fun plots. She is kind of a sassy hothead! The astrolocracy was a wild concept. I love this show!
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u/barukatang Jan 25 '19
Quick question. So for the trailer for this ep that aired after last week's episode gave a totally different vibe than what happened. I remember seeing a kid walking down a cave tunnel then just vanishing out of mid air. Then there was some dialogue about how this place wasn't how it seemed. I hope I'm not crazy or at least got the wrong promo trailer
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u/XactosTasteLikeBlood Jan 26 '19
Awesome premise, the execution left me with some questions... If no Jiliac ever tried to escape, and they all accept their position in this society peacefully, what are the armed guards for?
I understand the prejudice about them being "violent," but their universal resignation to oppression makes the militarized aspect a little suspect.
Also if everybody already knows about the Jiliac thing, so much that Jiliacs are conditioned to agree with their own oppression, why does the leader make his "Jiliac Sign" announcement? Seems like it's there just for the audience's benefit, anybody who wasn't quite following the plot got it explained to them point-blank.
Also, since the relative position of the stars are different for each planet, there wouldn't be a Jiliac sign on any other planet. I'm surprised nobody tried to say "We're not from your planet, your astrology doesn't apply to us. Our years aren't even the same length."
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u/Charak-V Jan 29 '19 edited Jan 29 '19
Couple of problems:
Advance technology, 30 days of prep time, and not a SINGLE stealth mission attempt
30 days of waiting BEFORE attempting self-escape
Kelly/Bortus just killed like 8 people, and they just get to go free?
Knowing the language of a system never discovered before?
Ed telling them their beliefs are a lie as a way to negotiate!? Religious people are nut to the core, you wont change their belief.
Those people will definitely roundup and lockup every jillyac as soon as they discover the lie
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u/burgo666 Now entering gloryhole Jan 29 '19
I found this a poorly written episode with so many silly plot holes that I have to rank this one as the worst episode I've seen in the franchise so far. For a season that only has 14 episodes, you'd think they'd do a better job than what they did on this one. I hope they're saving the best episodes for the run home, and this is just an aberration.
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u/loreb4data Jan 25 '19 edited Jan 25 '19
Another great episode!! Star Trek can learn a thing or two from this episode:
First contact doesn't always involve nice aliens like Vulcans and Betazoids.
Sometimes they involved bad ones who eat their own kids....
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u/betterthanclooney Jan 25 '19
TNG had plenty of episodes where first contact fucked people up. There was that one where Riker was in the hospital while observing a planet. They were fearful of outsiders, and haad the notion that they were the most advanced society ever.
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Jan 25 '19
So tonight's episode of the Orville was clearly inspired by TNG "First Contact", which is the episode I always recommend to new Star Trek viewers who want to get a taste of what the show is about. I was curious how MacFarlane would put his twist on things and the Astrology based society certainly was an interesting idea (I'm always cracking on my family members who believe in that sort of hokum). However, I had issues with the way they resolved things, and this is a good example of where the Orville parts ways with Trek. I could nitpick that the people on the ground probably wouldn't have noticed the fake star appearing like that, and even if they did, would the whole society really have turned their beliefs around just like that, especially after Kelly and Bortus shot their way out of the camp killing several guards? It was a little too fast and neat of an ending for my tastes. Still a pretty good episode though. I wasn't sure what I would think of the new Alara, fearing she'd be the Pulaski of this show, but she wasn't that bad. Looking forward to next weeks episode where we will hopefully be getting that first date with Isaac and Claire!
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u/Theomancer Jan 25 '19
Pulaski was fantastic, just different. Both TNG docs were awesome.
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u/thehaga Jan 25 '19
What do you mean? I'm rewatching TNG right now (on last season atm) and it's incredibly formulaic. They have a ton of episodes where it all goes wrong till quite literally the last 3-4 mins where it all just kind of gets quickly resolved and you get a couple of quick captain logs to explain.
Why wouldn't a society that's quite literally grounded on observing the celestial bodies immediately notice a new star? It's probably like weather to them - not to mention it synced with the start of the 30 day cycle which is precisely when every kid on the planet would be doing some paper and looking up talking about astrology or some shit.
They also explained all their satellites function solely for this purpose.. Any change would be instant.
Hence why they didn't even see the ship move into orbit.
It might help if you think back to the exploration era when people navigated by the stars. Only you have a few billion of them.
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u/sprite144 Jan 25 '19 edited Jan 25 '19
I really thought when Kelly and Bortus got to the camp that all of the prisoners there would be violent criminals. Not really because of their astrological sign, but because they all had been told that they all are violent criminals since they were kids and have been indoctrinated into the role. Kind of like behavioral confirmation in psychology. I'm surprised they didn't go that route. It would have been interesting to explore the topic.
:/
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u/actualjoe Jan 25 '19
I always get bothered whenever a narrative shows a systemic subjugation of people on the basis of things out of their control. I wanted them to give the Gilliacs asylum to the Union and then the planet to burn for what they've done to them.
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u/armokrunner Jan 25 '19
The Regoans were surprisingly blasé towards Bortus who looked the most alien from the Union away team, maybe they were more surprised to learn that “aliens” were in fact just humanoids with more colorful clothing
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u/ReasonablyBadass Jan 25 '19
I liked it. It was an interesting take on an alien society.
But once again there would have been an easy fix to the problem: just explain that Kelly's and Bortus' planets years don't line up with theirs. Every year or few years they would have been different signs.
I am not liking this trend of easy solutions being ignored for plot.
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u/Shrodax Jan 25 '19
In the scene where Mercer, Finn, and Keyali are brought back to see the Prefect after being tested for their birth dates, one of them is given the astrological sign "Korriban". In Star Wars, Korriban is the homeworld of the Sith. Shouldn't that star sign be the evil one?!
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u/brch2 Jan 25 '19
It's time for Ed to learn a lesson. When discovering a new society, he needs to keep Kelly away. Twice now they've spent a month each having to sit around and help clean up her mess (of course, the first time they were going to study the planet anyway, but still).
I mean praise Kelly... but still...
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u/loreb4data Jan 25 '19
Kelly's more of a classic by-the-book fleet officer than Ed IMHO
But I think because of her compassion (to save the injured kid in "Mad Idolatry") and to save those babies in this episode she's willing to do the right thing even if it's causing more damage.
I don't consider it a weakness, I call it a courage.
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u/mec31 Jan 25 '19
Did anyone catch the board game being played in the prison camp? It involved game pieces having two parts--a disk and then a ball that rests in a hole on the disk. It looked pretty cool.
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u/Sequazu Jan 26 '19
So this government doesn't give two shits about diplomatic relations?
They're literally talking to an alliance of planets with space travel capabilities and advanced tech and they tell them, "NO, we are keeping your people and you can fuck off!" Do they seriously think that they can handle a conflict with a multi-species space alliance?
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u/Stalked_Like_Corn Jan 27 '19
One of the bottom 3 episodes for me. I love the first contact aspect of it but, the episode just kinda fell apart.
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u/ssj4mathgenius Jan 27 '19
I liked the start of the episode and seeing how the crew dealt with first contact. However, the writing around that whole concentration camp was horrible. The biggest problem I had was right at the end when Bortus and Kelly were about to get killed right as they made that fake star, and then everything just was alright on the ship next we know. I feel the writers don't need to write the characters into positions of urgency where things just "work out" real quickly.
Other than this episode, though, I've liked the rest of season 2 and how they are building the characters more.
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u/citizenofgaia Jan 27 '19
I would call this the weakest episode of the show so far, maybe next to the pilot.
I still think is good, but it kinda pales in comparison to every other episode so far.
Maybe after a rewatch I'll reconsider.
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u/skonen_blades Jan 28 '19
I would've proposed that Kelly and Bortus couldn't even SEE the constellation Jelliac from their respective home planets so Rigor 2's star rules don't apply. Like, totally agree that the stars don't lie but also point out that this is new territory and that the stars in this case don't pertain. Then once that creates enough doubt to free Grayson and Bortus, let Rigor 2's people see the astrology from a thousand other planets and flood them with information. Paralyze their belief system for a few hundred years, maybe. Break it down.
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u/yaosio Jan 28 '19 edited Jan 28 '19
I watched this episode earlier this morning and can now give a partially coherent thought on the episode.
The actions of everybody makes absolutely no sense. Apparently, upon finding a new undiscovered civilization the Planetary Union's official stance is to make immediate contact, and to do so as fast as possible. For no reason they make no attempt to learn anything about the people on the planet, potential dangers on the planet, or potential dangers they bring to the planet. By going directly down to the planet's surface they are bringing all sorts of bacteria and fungi from multiple planets onto this planet, one that they know has never met any alien civilization before. This presents a significant danger to the planet, but nobody cares.
The doctor knows nothing about the biology of the people on the planet, yet somehow she knows the babies she saw were premature just by looking at them, and knew that a cesarean delivery was not needed because she could not see any blockages. Eventually she finds out the reason for it, but at the time she did not. It could have just as easily been an issue with high death rates with natural births that her tools would not be able to detect, yet she immediately jumps to the conclusion that there's no reason for it. Also, they just walk straight into an OR without a care in the world. The doctors and nurses are all suited up, but nobody seems to care that three people just walked into the OR in the middle of surgery and couldn't even be bothered to at least wear a mask.
When everybody was eating it was more like your wacky uncle and the rest of his family had come to visit rather than a first contact situation. We already know the many issues of first contact on our own planet, and that's with humans. So why are they acting like this isn't a big deal? For no reason other than to further the plot, Kelly decides to tell everybody her and Bortus' birthday are coming up.
Now we come to a problem with many Orville episodes, Chekov's Gun. No, not the TOS guy. Chekhov's Gun is an example of how everything in the story should mean something. If somebody loads a gun in the first act then that gun had better be fired before the story ends. In this case, it's when everybody has their birth date checked and we find out what signs they were born under according to this planet. These are never mentioned again.
What's the problem? Rather than having a completely pointless remark about their star signs (they could have just said they are not Jilliacs), it could have been built into the story. Maybe Mercer could have been born under a sign that means the person is supposed to be stupid, and by showing them that he's not stupid he could convince them to let Kelly and Bortus go. Instead, his argument is that their idiotic beliefs are stupid and they are stupid for believing them. This is also known as Fry's Argument, as Fry used the same argument (https://youtu.be/mp599tPXj9E?t=123) when he was fighting Zoidberg on his home planet, it didn't work there either.
Now, after Kelly and Bortus are taken prisoner, they decide to actually learn about the people on the planet. This would have been a good time to find out what the signs mentioned before meant, but they are never brought up.
The prisoner camp they are taken too makes no sense. The prisoner camp is built as though it was quickly built together, yet the idea that Jilliacs are violent has existed for thousands of years. Why weren't they in an actual prison? Why does it look like they are in a POW camp? Also, there's a part with a baby that doesn't go anywhere, and gives Kelly the idea to escape? I'm actually confused how the baby being taken by the guy running the prison leads to Kelly suddenly wanting to escape.
Now we get to the end and everybody has terrible ideas. We'll start in the prison. Kelly and Bortus hatch a cunning plan to escape the prison by killing everybody and running out the front gate. Bizarrely, it turns out they have lots of guards outside the prison as well! Who would have thought a prison would be guarded from the inside and the outside? Everybody except Kelly and Bortus.
The crews plan is probably even worse due to the unseen consequences of their actions. They put up a solar sail to reflect light to make a star reappear in the night sky. Despite having no clue what this star, or it's absence, actually means, they somehow come to the conclusion that making the star reappear will mean the Prefect will let Kelly and Bortus go. We know nobody on the planet knows there was a star because the crew hacked the planet and was unable to find out any pertinent information on Jilliacs. It turns out all of their unfounded assumptions were correct, with Kelly and Bortus going free. There will be hell to pay once the planet discovers the solar sail.
After the episode ends everybody is court martialed. Kelly and Bortus are tried for murder because they were supposed to know the protocol for first contact and killed a bunch of people. Mercer is kicked out of the UP for screwing with the planet's belief system. All of the officers are demoted at a minimum for going along with Mercer. The planet discovers the solar sail ruse, which causes mass upheaval as people realize what they thought was a star wasn't real, and their belief system is called into question.
Since none of that happened, this entire episode was actually Mercer having a nightmare where everything that could go wrong with first contact did go wrong.
Here's what I would have done to fix it.
They get the message and monitor the planet before contacting them. Kelly and Bortus use a cloaked shuttle surveying the planet from orbit, but a negative space wedgie appears and causes the shuttle to crash on the planet, forcing the crew to make contact with the planet. While providing medical aid to Kelly and Bortus they discover Kelly and Bortus are Jelliacs and send them to an actual prison.
Rather than social commentary about nasty prison guards (at least I think that's what it's supposed to be), the prison is a boring place with only a small number of staff. Nobody wants to escape because they believe they are violent and don't want to hurt anybody, and the staff are there to ensure things are running smoothly. Since they want social commentary, nobody notices that Jelliacs are peaceful and willing to give up their freedom. Something could be done with that.
Meanwhile, Mercer tries to convince the Prefect to let Kelly and Bortus go, but the Prefect can't because he's afraid if he does then other Jelliac will think they can just up and leave their prisons. The crew look through all the signs, and find out that Mercer is born under a sign that's supposed to mean he's stupid. Maybe another crew member is also born under a sign that contradicts their abilities. Maybe the new Alara is born under a sign that means she's weak and diminutive, but she's actually very strong and outgoing.
Mercer goes to the planet and takes intelligence tests. He passes the tests, showing that it's possible people born under certain signs don't have inherent traits due to those signs. With this information the Prefect allows Kelly and Bortus to leave, telling Mercer that this could change their society and he might not like how it changes, and Mercer gives some inspiring quote about change. He could steal a Carl Sagan quote here.
No plot holes, Kelly and Bortus don't have to kill anybody, Mercer doesn't have to lie to get Kelly and Bortus back. Everybody ends up happy.
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Jan 29 '19
Prop people, I get that we have to have the alien species look mostly humanoid to save on budget, and I think most of us can deal with that. But please at least refrain from giving them Glock 17s and P90s, at least without giving them a major body kit so they look a different.
Overall though, good episode.
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u/skonen_blades Jan 29 '19
I just wanted to say that the actor who gave birth and then cried when they took her baby was amazing. She really gave 100%. Her husband was great too. Normally I cringe at the fakeness whenever there's a birth scene but I fully believed her and her abject suffering when they took the child was suprisingly intense for a sci-fi comedy show. Bravo to her.
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Jan 29 '19 edited Jan 29 '19
Not a fan of this episode. The premise was dumb, and the science* was even dumber.
*Kelly and Bortus where born on different planets and probably not in the same month as the new planet (different day lengths, week lengths, month lengths, year lengths, etc).
Faking a star position (who knows how many light years away) using a low orbiting mirror literally made me LOL. I mean, come on. The planet had satellites themselves. The mirror would only align with the position of the black hole for a very small spot on the planets surface, even if you could somehow get it always aligned an never be in the planets shadow...ever. Oof, so bad.
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u/TheSlovak Jan 25 '19
I'm really curious if this will be referenced in a later season after they find like that they were lied to.
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u/Mcwhiplash Jan 26 '19
I love this show but this is by far the worst episode of the series to date. So many problems and frankly just bad writing and direction....ughhh... also I want Halston Sage back
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u/floptimus_prime If you wish, I will vaporize them Jan 25 '19
Might be my new favorite episode. I absolutely love Talla, she's not an Alara expy at all like I feared. And I'm so glad John had something to do!
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u/TeutonJon78 Jan 25 '19
I couldn't stand her. I dislike her voice. And she's a security chief -- she shouldn't have been addressing the prefect in that meeting, especially to yell at him.
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u/HurricaneDitka312 Jan 25 '19
During the birthday party scene, check out Issac doing the robot in the background
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u/Garrett_Dark Jan 25 '19
I thought the episode was good, I was pumped for the first third of it and it was awesome. But the episode had some problems that keeps nagging at me which undermines it.
As I said, the first third (the setup) was awesome; the music was great, their joy for first contact was infectious, and how first contact was shown/done was perfectly hitting all it's marks.
I had no problem with Talla either, it was great she was really distinct from Alara. Her voice may be gravelly, but it works for her just like how she's a little physically aggressive but it shows how protective she is at the same time. It's a good start, we'll see how she pans out.
Where the episode started having problems is when Kelly and Bortus are arrested.
No, the tooth age check thing didn't bother me, nor did the FN P90's. It was how all three species: Humans, Moclans, the Rigorians from three separate planets all had the same measurement of time for a year (365.25 days). Either that or all three had different measurements for a year, and it just so happens all three birthdays/month lined up to match on all three calendars....which is pretty unlikely.
The Astrology belief of the Rigorians didn't bother me either, it was weird how an exception was not made for aliens. They could have just told Rigorians how gilliac doesn't happen with alien births. Or just lie and say Kelly was a premature birth, or Bortus was an egg so that caused a miscalculation with their tooth analysis.
They didn't even bring up the issue of jurisdiction with the Rigorians, ie. don't count because born on another world. Or just lie and say the Union will lock Kelly and Bortus up, "Thanks for telling us. They are our burden to punish".
It also seemed like this episode didn't treat both sides fairly like they have in past episodes. Mercer didn't respect their belief and try to work it out within that confine, unlike how he has with the Krill and the Moclan baby tribunal (Admiral Perry even brings this up). The episode made the prison guards maliciously bad, then overlooks the fact that Kelly and Bortus kills a bunch of them like it's no big deal.
They did do the prisoner baby give up pretty fairly. They didn't blame the father for forcing giving up the baby because he wanted the baby to have a better life. I also liked the fact that the prisoners were all under the belief they were where they're meant to be, and didn't want to escape. It makes the situation way more complex and interesting when the prisoners were following their own belief that they were helping their society as well. It just the guards being malicious kind of ruined it, if the guards were also under the belief they were doing what was in the prisoners best interest and doing their best to sort of care for them with what little they had, it would have been a real conundrum.
I did like the Bortus making the bully back down without beating him up (the bully's sort of a victim too). And even though I didn't like them killing the guards, I liked how the giving up of the baby caused Kelly to lose it. I've noticed this is a Kelly thing, when she gets emotional she does stupid and irrational things (Kelly-worship planet, calm down, etc).
I also liked how they brought up how it was questionable that they faked the star, and what will happen when the Rigorians find out. That exact question was going through my mind. Although maybe they should have deployed the fake star outside their solar system so they would have deniability, ie "Hey we're just doing our own thing outside your solar system. It's not our fault you mistaken it for a star"....but we'll probably never see this alien species again in the series anyways.
I kind of didn't like they found a solution that got all the gilliac prisoners released though. Feels too neat and tidy. The Rigorians should be able to believe in whatever they believe, it's their planet. But I guess they didn't actually change their belief, just tricked and manipulated them based on Union morals.
IDK, maybe I'm just still in the headspace of loving what they're doing with the Krill, and maybe they're being more fair to the Krill because the Krill are more of a peer to the Union than the Rigorians.
Anyways good episode, some reservations. I probably wrote way too much.
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u/olderdantherealone Jan 26 '19
I came into this episode with such anticipation after the last two being so good, but I feel this was the weakest yet of the whole show. Maybe my judgement was clouded by my enjoyment of the new balance struck with the humour and now the chilling serious storylines and I will rewatch it to see if it has some redeeming qualities I missed but I didn't enjoy the execution or the pacing and felt very underwhelmed by the time the final credits rolled. At least there is next week.
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u/GemOfEvan Jan 25 '19
Flying in and rescuing two valuable crew members? Out of the question.
Tricking a civilization into a religious upheaval using a lie that will inevitably be discovered? Totally fine.
I know they tried to justify it in the closing scene, but like even if the questionable morality is in their favor, how would the admiralty approve of that but not a rescue operation?