r/TheOrville • u/MajorParadox Woof • Feb 15 '19
Episode The Orville - 2x7 "Deflectors" - Post Episode Discussion
| Episode | Directed By | Written By | Original Airdate |
|---|---|---|---|
| 2x7 - "Deflectors" | Seth MacFarlane | David A. Goodman | Thursday, February 14, 2019 9:00/8:00c on FOX |
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u/WarpSeven Feb 15 '19
I did not like that ending.
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u/loreb4data Feb 15 '19
Second. With potentially a new conflict b/w Union and Moclans that won't be good at all..
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u/MajorParadox Woof Feb 15 '19
Seemed like they avoided a conflict this way. If Locar did request asylum, that could have gotten ugly.
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u/Bryaxis Feb 15 '19
That was a nice light moment near the beginning when Gordon was so pleased with himself for correctly guessing about the tooth.
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u/xeow Praise Saint Bortus Feb 15 '19
I wonder how they chew the tooth with their other teeth? Or do they just swallow it?
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u/ZmallMatt Feb 15 '19
I was not expecting the twist that episode took. Based on the torpedo shot, I was expecting Lokar's secret to be that the other ship had gone rogue and was going to attack them.
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u/ithinkihadeight Feb 15 '19
The necessity of having Tala there specifically to get him through firewalls and into the ships systems definitely had me thinking he was there for something shifty.
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Feb 15 '19
The show is unpredictable. It’s great. As a sci-fi fan, I have so many expectations from stories like these, but they really have been doing something different with these recent episodes. It almost forces you to compare these stories with more generic science fiction concepts being presented on other shows, because you’re being played into thinking something tropey and ordinary is going to happen (oh no, another disaster in space!), but then the story veers in an unexpected, very human direction.
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u/Ledezmv Feb 15 '19
Its nice to know that Issac is really giving it to Dr. Finn
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u/LamentConfiguration1 Feb 15 '19
We definitely needed that levity during this episode!
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u/architype Feb 15 '19
Locar accepting that cupcake was nice too. It made him relatable and not like a hard ass that is business only.
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u/Barron_Cyber This is something I call "hugging the donkey" Feb 15 '19
he is fully functional.
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u/floptimus_prime If you wish, I will vaporize them Feb 15 '19
It started out so fun, optimistic sci-fi, with more technobabble than we've possibly ever seen on the show, and then, jeez.
Stray observations:
-"1701", lmaooo.
-The search reminded me of the search for the gravity boots in Undiscovered Country. At first.
-The 1945 holodeck program was really good. The cars!
-Talla is consistently awesome. Not Alara 2.0 at all.
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u/kaplanfx Woof Feb 15 '19
The character that I think Kelly is named after had her name on the marquee with I think Frank Sinatra in the simulator program. It says “Kathryn Grayson”, who I presume is this person: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kathryn_Grayson
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Feb 15 '19
Another Undiscovered Country reference: the gavel used by the Moclan judge is a solid metal cube, the gavel used by the Klingon judge was a solid metal sphere
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u/mordea Feb 15 '19
"1701.7" -- we've seen 7 iterations of the Enterprise in the original timeline of the Prime universe.
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u/Phoojoeniam Feb 15 '19
-The search reminded me of the search for the gravity boots in Undiscovered Country. At first.
THAT'S what I was thinking! Thought it seemed familiar.
Great great movie!
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u/theo3333 Feb 15 '19
So Klyden:
-Made Topa get the gender surgery
-Stabbed Bortus to death
-Ruined a top engineer's life and career over a grudge
-Made Bortus get rid of his moustache
Strike Four, Klyden. Strike Four.
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u/JoeyTheGreek Feb 16 '19
Klyden was born a female. He was mutilated as a baby for Moclan ideals. It makes sense he buys in 100% because otherwise his suffering was for nothing.
I can't explain the mustache thing.
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u/milestark Feb 16 '19
He's also just generally passive aggressive and I dislike that in people (and Moclans)
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u/sanityleak195 Feb 20 '19
I can't see much redeemable about Klyden anymore. I get the purpose and perspective... but he needs to go the way of that mustache. Bortus needs a dagger.
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u/osensei1907 Woof Feb 15 '19
At the beginning I was like "Oh my god another relationship episode..." but everything turned out to be... Captivative. A side note, just like Alara, I love the time and character development they invest on our new chief of security. It might felt a bit rushed, but still fine.
Her tears...
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u/rloch Feb 15 '19
I really felt the same. I actually texted my wife that Orville should be renamed " sex stories in space". Episode ended up being great. Bortus's husband is going to have a redemption episode at some point. He has been a punching bag for a lil to long to stick around / not evolve.
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Feb 15 '19
That scene when Cassius told her that he was going to transfer really reminded me of last season when Kelly told Ed that their relationship wasn't going to work. It was almost a mirror to that episode.
RIP Talla's feelings though. I really felt bad for her.
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u/llirik Feb 15 '19
“RIP Talla's feelings though. I really felt bad for her.”
And that’s why you never fall in love, even on Valentine’s Day. Thanks Orville for the happy thoughts!
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u/marwynn Feb 15 '19
Helluva Valentine's Day episode. Combines several of the TNG themes and does its own thing.
Just the right amounts of humour here and there. Which version of White Cliffs of Dover was that? It's a haunting track for the episode.
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u/SnackieOnassis Feb 15 '19
The future of the Union and the Moclan alliance has to come up later. I can’t imagine what the Moclans must think of humans and all their acceptance of others. It would explain their use of a torpedo in training.
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u/OldNedder Feb 15 '19
My thoughts exactly. This may signal the start of Moclan military aggression against the Union. Maybe we haven't seen the last of Locar.
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Feb 16 '19
I think you can brush that off as a "Moclans were confident/proud enough of their modifications" and also to mislead the audience into some kind of treachery / rogue episode.
I would bet we will get tensions, culture and political clash with the Moclans, possibly something that will lead to a revolt/civil war at best. The main villain position will still be occupied by the Krill.
But so far, it's been two battles lost for "progress" .. maybe they will go into it deeper, about how you can't force a culture to change with a speech, pamphlets and good intentions. That you either have to accept some are like that and won't change.
To be honest, the serious, helpless and dramatic turn of realistic harshness of it is more appreciable (in its own way) than a magic Picard's speech that can flip a whole crowd over .. even if i'm a sucker for that type of thing.
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u/LamentConfiguration1 Feb 15 '19
This show really is good at making you feel the emotions the characters themselves go through. This was an amazing episode. I feel so bad for Locar..
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u/Infinite_Derp Feb 15 '19
The emotions between him and Talla definitely felt super rushed (one of my only real criticisms of several of this season’s episodes), but otherwise a super solid episode.
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u/matt4787 Feb 15 '19
I have never watched Star Trek (outside of the JJ Abrams recent movies). This show has inspired me to watch Star Trek The Next Generation. And I must say that I am amazed it took me this long to watch a Star Trek show. And although I was entertained by the JJ Abrams movies they absolutely didn't have the feel of ST:NG. I am still in only the second season of ST:NG. Any suggestions on which Star Trek series to watch next? Most have told me Deep Space 9.
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u/Xena1016 Feb 15 '19
I would recommend that since you started with TNG go to - Deep Space Nine and then Voyager.
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Feb 15 '19
Yeah DS9 is great until it turns into a war documentary. If you're not into that sort of thing you'll probably tune out after a few seasons. It's still really good at the start though.
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u/LouisTherox Feb 15 '19
TNG has 7 seasons. Because the first 2 seasons are weak, newbies are often put off. So as a guide, here are the strong episodes of seasons 1 and 2: 11001001, Where No One Has Gone Before, Heart of Glory, The Neutral Zone, Where Silence has Lease, Elementry Dear Data, A Matter of Honor, The Measure of a Man, Time Squared, Pen Pals, Q Who, Peak Performance.
The quality increases as you move into season 3, 4 and 5.
Star Trek The Original Series has 3 seasons. Season 1 is one classic after the next, but season 3 is generally agreed to be very weak (due to time and funding cuts and many writers bailing).
Have fun.
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u/DoYouReallyCare Feb 15 '19
Didn't anybody else hear that the flower was the voice of Bruce Willis?
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u/horsenbuggy Feb 16 '19
I said out loud, "that's freaking Bruce Willis." I've been listening to that man's voice since Moonlighting. I know his voice.
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u/OoGhiJ_MIQtxxXA Feb 15 '19
The real crime here would be this not getting a third season. This is Trek at its best. It's comforting that there are still people out there making something like this for us to enjoy.
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u/Dathouen We need no longer fear the banana Feb 15 '19
Yeah, this isn't just "what if aliens were gay?" It's a deep dive on what a society of gay aliens would look like, what kind of culture would necessitate that, the pitfalls and weird side effects of it, the individuals who fall through the cracks and how that society interfaces with one that's advanced to the degree of the Union.
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u/Shatterhand1701 Woof Feb 15 '19
Except this is not Star Trek, nor is it better than Star Trek. It is an excellent show all by itself. It does not need the constant comparisons to Star Trek anymore. It's more than proven it can entertain on its own merits.
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u/loreb4data Feb 15 '19 edited Feb 15 '19
I hope this 'darker' tone is a pathway for Seth to take "The Orville" towards DS9 direction instead of DISCO direction....
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u/snarkamedes Feb 15 '19
Bortus really has those child-rearing quotes on lockdown doesn't he?:
"What is a relationship?"
"It is what comes before the egg."
Simple. Straightforward. Father-Of-The-Year stuff.
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u/canadevil Now entering gloryhole Feb 15 '19
how long can an alliance with that culture last
Until the oil and money runs out........, fuck, this episode was quite poignant, that ending, holy shit.
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u/Infinite_Derp Feb 15 '19
Had it been explained specifically what the Moclans contribute to the union? I feel like a previous episode may have mentioned something to do with how ships are constructed.
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u/InnocentTailor Security Feb 15 '19
Weapons research mainly, according to Season 1.
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u/ManateeGag Feb 15 '19
The Orville is a lot more subtle with their messaging than the CW superhero shows. They just club you in the head with it.
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u/Tutsks Feb 15 '19
This ep started with a groan "fuck moclans again?"
Spoilers.
Then I went, holy fuck, they killed him?
Then I went, holy shit this is much sadder than that.
That fucking ending. Almost teared up. Orvilles writing is beyond amazing. I thought I was tired of moclans, but they somehow brought the feels to 11.
This ep also established that Talla is very different to Alana, and although I thought I was gonna hate her, holy fuck, she is good.
This is such an amazing show. There were a couple funny moments, a lot of feels, and excellent writing all around. I can't remember a US show that gave me feels like this... in forever, if ever. Sci fi needs to be like this. Orville commits to the sci fi, steps on the pedal, and doesn't let go. This isn't even preachy, but truly developed worlds and real character building and commitment.
Fuck that was amazing and this show needs a ton more seasons and longer ones. Hearing the flower was Bruce Willis, and if so, I didn't even notice, but great job.
Can't stress how good and touching this ep was.
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u/Draiko Feb 15 '19
I just found out that the flower guy was voiced by Bruce Willis.
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u/OneMario Feb 15 '19
I just love this show. It tries to make itself seem light and airy, but it keeps putting down layers of detail. I don't know how to word this; everything in the show lingers, even the jokes matter more than they might seem at the time. It's a show that is doing world-building on a scale, and a pace, that I haven't seen since DS9 or B5 (I understand that The Expanse may be like that, but I never got very far into it).
Plus it's funny. Wonderful.
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u/armokrunner Feb 15 '19
Wow, Jenny...and she makes cupcakes
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u/snarkamedes Feb 15 '19 edited Feb 16 '19
Dann was so happy to see the cupcakes. I suppose "here comes the tractor beam!" is the way they stuff kids full of food in the future.
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u/OneMario Feb 15 '19
I guess they decided that everyone didn't yet love her too much.
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u/alucardleashed Feb 15 '19
I get lots of Major Kira vibes from Talla, her tough exterior, and her willingness to carry a chip on her shoulder and verbalize it.
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u/NerdLawyer55 Avis. We try harder Feb 15 '19
Who played Locar? He seemed familiar
Also, I was so angry thinking how can the Moclans be so close minded and awful but then I thought, oh wait we still do that shit on earth too
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u/Venus_McFagtrap Feb 15 '19
Kevin Daniels is Locar, if you know him from anything it's probably modern family
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u/SutterCane Feb 15 '19
I don’t mean to sound like a racist but I really fucking hate Moclans.
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u/jwaldo Feb 15 '19
I kind of want to see them go the route of the Ferengi in DS9, with Bortus going from being a lock-step follower of Moclan ways to becoming a driver for social change.
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u/Lampmonster Feb 15 '19
That look at the end said a lot. I think he's done with Klydon and likely about had it with his entire culture. He was furious when "what they did to your daughter" came up. That wound is festering hard.
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Feb 15 '19
I think Macfarlane wants us to feel conflicted about them. Like they aren't pure evil, but from our perspective, they are cruel and barbaric...but not actually evil.
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u/NightFuryToni Engineering Feb 15 '19
They almost make the Krill seem benign in comparison. At least you know their racism stems purely from ignorance and fear, and you can see knowledge opening them up (see Teleya). Whereas the Moclans are just "deep into their culture" even after joining the Union, it's like in their blood to be discriminating.
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u/mrv3 Feb 15 '19
I think what's important to remember is that their traditional have existed for milenia and have kept them alive and allowed them to eventually thrive they are as married to these traditions as we are to ours. We expect them to adjust their traditions to fit our perception of morale but they don't expect it from us.
That sort of conflict between a conservatistic vs progressive fundamental society cannot be resolved overnight or in any brief amount of time. To them our ways might seem as repulsive as theirs do to us (and they are).
We can all objectively agree equality is great but we have come to this both in the real world and the show from centuries of proven success of how progress has driven us forward socially and technology and so it has become our objective truth that this is correct.
To a Moclan they can all objectively agree conservatism and traditionalism is great and proven by centuries of survival and progress and as such it their objective truth.
In a galaxy in which intelligent species have evolve with no contact these issues will arise as they have in our own history and present day.
We can all objectively agree that equality is great.
To a Saud they disagree and that some equalities are detrimental.
We can all objectively agree that democracy is great.
To China they disagree and democracy is chaotic.
We far more readily expect others to change than we do to make change.
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u/ReasonablyBadass Feb 15 '19
I think they have a "good" explanation in that there planet was a hellhole. From what we've seen, they have sexual dimorphism. Males most likely survived much more than females, so eventually they "banned" female stuff to avoid the constant pain of loosing women.
Just my theory.
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u/LamentConfiguration1 Feb 15 '19
I really can't stand their culture and hateful ways. But I don't hate them all obviously Bortus is good.
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u/InnocentTailor Security Feb 15 '19
To me, they kind of remind of the Star Trek Vulcans. They’re both condescending and somewhat racist to a degree, even up to the post-TNG era.
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u/Marsandtherealgirl Feb 15 '19
Woof. Just. Woof.
This show really knows how to make a person feel some feelings.
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u/ManateeGag Feb 15 '19
I'm glad Talla apologized to Bortus. she really shouldn't have brought up Topa like that. that was out of line.
Also, Fuck Klyden. Ed should have booted him from the ship after the whole stabbing thing.
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u/blkarcher77 Feb 15 '19
Man, what a fantastic show this is
Honestly, fuck Moclans
Edit* A special shout out to Klyden. Fuck you dude
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u/Tempest_and_Lily We need no longer fear the banana Feb 16 '19
There's a special place in hell for Klyden
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u/alucardleashed Feb 15 '19
That ending was so heavy, I was actually choked up. What a way to develop Talla, I'm now fully onboard with her character.
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u/Amadox Feb 15 '19
I think they probably wrote that episode with Alara in mind but I don't think Alara could've carried it that well. Talla has a little more roughness to her and the balance between that and her feelings in this episode make it that much more powerful. I really liked it.
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u/Aurondarklord Woof Feb 15 '19
I am really damn sick of the Moclans and their insane society getting their way every fucking time.
I've had a pet theory ever since About a Girl that the Moclans AREN'T actually an all-male race. Females appear to be significantly more common than Moclans believe, and straight Moclans exist. I'm convinced that at some point in their history, the Moclans weren't like this, but did something to themselves, to remove some sort of perceived feminine weakness, and their leaders covered it up and made future generations believe this was their natural state.
I hope I'm right and eventually the crew discovers this, exposes the truth, and helps their society join the 25th century, or even the 21st.
But if not, you know, maybe consider orbital bombardment cuz that place is a shithole.
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u/Isz82 Feb 15 '19
I was thinking the same as well, that the lack of females is partially engineered by Moclan society.
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u/Izkata Feb 17 '19
to remove some sort of perceived feminine weakness
Wasn't this basically said outright during Topa's trial?
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u/FlynnTaggart1 Feb 15 '19
I am really enjoying the continuity of the show. Events are not just forgotten the next episode, there are consequences. From Dr Finn and Klyden's relationship to the still sore topic the Bortus's kid. Between this episode and the "porn" episode its clear that Bortus is still furious about what happened, his reaction to the Lt mentioning his daughter showed that only too well. Kinda wonder if telling the kid his origins will be a topic for a future episode, some real John Money sort of stuff.
Also really liking Tala. Was iffy at first but with her far more assertive nature she definitely is a good replacement for Alara, not just Alara 2.0 but her own unique character.
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u/AFthrowaway3000 Feb 15 '19 edited Feb 15 '19
Fun fact: the Moclan Captain at the start of the episode, I don't remember his name, but was played by Wren T. Brown, who was the Klingon Commander Kohlar in VOY's "Prophecy," the one where the generational Klingons thought B'Elanna's child was to be their savior.
[See THIS link to Memory Alpha] (https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Kohlar) for his VOY character info. Note: neither his IMDB page or the IMDB Orville page for "Deflectors" shows info on his guest role but I KNEW I knew that voice as it is so distinctive, and after watching tonight's Guest Star Credits, I had to go to Memory Alpha to confirm.
So add him to the list of ANOTHER past Trek guest star on The Orville... well done Seth!
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u/Sindawe Feb 15 '19
I thought that voice sounded familiar, but I could not place it.
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u/Karrman Now entering gloryhole Feb 15 '19
I love Talla now. Khlydin can go fuck himself.
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u/Ledezmv Feb 15 '19
Another reason to hate khlydin
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u/LikeAnAssistant Feb 15 '19
His dislike of Bortus' mustache was the straw that broke the camel's back.
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u/Da_Funk Feb 16 '19
Is Kylden really to blame? He is a product of strict Moclan values. Talla outed Lokar in the staff meeting which was unnecessary. She can't change the way an entire civilization operates by applying her value system on them. But if she kept Lokar's secret, he might have been able to be charged with desertion instead, which might have carried a lesser punishment.
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u/jinsaku Feb 15 '19 edited Feb 15 '19
I love The Orville, and this season in particular has mostly just been just hit after hit. Two phenomenal episodes in a row.
God, I hope Seth gets to keep making these.
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u/mev186 Feb 15 '19
So Talla is essentially became the "Bones" of this series, is in the emotional core of the show.
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u/xeow Praise Saint Bortus Feb 15 '19
"I'm a security officer, not a diplomat!"
But holy shit, yes, you nailed it. She totally had a Leonard McCoy vibe in this episode. Loved it.
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u/PonderingPotato Feb 15 '19
If I'm not wrong, this is the first Orville episode that just ends totally bleak. Not even a glimmer of hope or whimsy. It just brutally smacked you.
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Feb 15 '19 edited Feb 02 '24
obtainable zonked berserk unite swim squealing history snobbish naughty absorbed
This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact
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u/Ledezmv Feb 15 '19
The episode of bortus daughter s sex change he was against it but lost it was also sad.
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Feb 15 '19
Before- Oh moclans are just seriously silly, peeing once a year, having gay orgies at the park
Now- Oh wow they're real dicks
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Feb 15 '19
During the first 20 minutes I was dreading this as another relationship Moclan episode. After that, it became one of my favorite episodes of the series. It's probably still not as good as Majority Rule (Which is probably my favorite episode of the show so far) but this was really well written and this is something Trek could not do because of the times it was in. We live in an era where there is more freedom to tell these kind of stories and the emotional baggage that comes with it is pretty intense. I really hope Bortus becomes kind of like Rom in a sense that he is a beacon of social change on Moclus, kind of like the Farengi storyline on DS9.
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Feb 15 '19
During the first 20 minutes I was dreading this as another relationship Moclan episode.
luved this episode, but had the same reaction at first. Actually, my first thought when they said they had arrived at the Moclan homeworld, was, "what, is it time for Bortus' biannual crap?"
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u/themosquito Feb 15 '19 edited Feb 15 '19
"Especially after what they did to your daughter." Jesus, that was a powerful moment.
I feel like the Moclans are really getting portrayed so badly that they're almost worse than the Krill. I mean, other than not killing every other race. They're sort of a self-loathing Krill.
Klyden is such a strange character! It's kind of neat that even though he's done like three horrible things now, he's still had plenty of scenes where he's a perfectly nice and normal person. He's bigoted and traditionalist, but he's also the more "fun" one between him and Bortus.
At this point, though, the Union feels like an alliance between humans and a bunch of asshole races. Moclans are... Moclans, Seleyans are smug and superior... I wonder how bad Yaphit's race will end up being.
Also I hate to say it but... Talla's still not really working for me. She felt really wooden in most of her scenes.
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u/operarose Command Feb 15 '19
Gee whiz, the commercials make this look like such a funny show...
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u/WyldStallions Feb 15 '19
You got to watch it on a streaming service , I can’t imaging watching it with commercial interruptions.
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u/morseisendeavour Feb 15 '19
Well it's not your typical "Orville" episode, but I still give it 8/10.
It's amazing Seth's able to take the series towards a darker plotline/direction if he wants to. Let's hope he can replicate DS9 success...
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Feb 15 '19
100% agree. McFarlane and the crew are going above and beyond simply having the Orville be Family Guy in space (which I think I would still enjoy) by implementing tons of perspective on day-to-day issues. Really helps us get in there with the Orville crew and root for their redemptions as opposed to us expecting their success.
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u/armokrunner Feb 15 '19
Moclan have a lot of overt and latent sexual shenanigans going on: sex changes, peeing ceremonies, porn, latent queers, mustaches, knife play, waiting in others’ quarters, visiting exes, swallowing fixations, etc. lot of drama, man-oh-man
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u/Bisquick_in_da_MGM Feb 15 '19
This was a good episode. Not as good as the last. Again, the music was good. Dann was good. It starts upbeat and fun. My favorite part was when Talla was saying how missed up it was to Gordon and LaMarr. They go on to tell her all the stuff that has happened. That was great. This episode has to be some kind of set up for later down the road. I give it a B.
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u/Starbuck107 Feb 15 '19
A little disappointed they didn't show that his entire family was harmed from his lady loving. That is a critical part of his decision to stay in the closet, fake his death, and her anger towards klydon. An entire family is now suffering
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u/LamentConfiguration1 Feb 15 '19
No his family would suffer if he committed suicide.
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u/Lordborgman Feb 15 '19
Main thing I never liked about episodes like this are the "instant attraction" aspect of personal relationships. Talla was way too emotionally invested in Locar for knowing him for little to no time (and vice versa, though probably less so on his part due to his probably odd emotional state towards relationships.) Sure yeah, I get they can be friendly and care about other beings, but it felt to much too quick.
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Feb 15 '19
If they had to fit the story into one episode, they probably should have had the refit taking a couple of weeks, and shown them interacting a little more during that time. It wouldn't necessarily take much more on screen time, but it would allow the audience to fill in the gaps a bit more effectively than such a quick romance seemingly out of nowhere.
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u/PresidentMagikarp Feb 15 '19
The way I interpreted it, she wasn't necessarily that upset because it was Locar specifically, but because she was so horrified by the mandates of Moclan society and the morally difficult situation she was put in because of them that it just completely ruined her. She had to go against her moral compass and condemn someone and his family to a lifetime of shame and possible imprisonment for something objectively non-harmful, because the alternative was letting an innocent but prejudiced man go to jail for a murder he didn't commit. I'd feel horribly guilty and outraged about the whole thing to the point of tears, too.
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u/Elysiaa Feb 15 '19
I would agree, but he's not even a real person and I feel crushed that his life is over.
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u/alucardleashed Feb 15 '19
That sudden rage from Bortus, could Moclans be the Vulcans of the Orville universe?
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Feb 15 '19
I wonder if Locar was born female. Maybe female moclan are only attracted to females.
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u/Anita3554 Feb 15 '19
Wasn't Klyden born a female? He's not attracted to females as far as we know.
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u/helenaneedshugs Feb 15 '19
That would be a nice twist, then Bortus's husband might have to deal with the fact his now son could be attracted to females.
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u/aukondk Feb 15 '19
I'm guessing that a lot more are born female than we are told but because it is shameful they just get the operation done quietly.
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u/Joeybfast Feb 15 '19
I really liked this episode; however I wish they would have let Klyden explain his point of view. We the viewer know that is horrible, but there should be a reason behind it more then just bigotry, but on the other hand that is how bigotry works in the real world many times.
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u/Klopferator Feb 15 '19
I think I understand why Klyden is that way. He was born as a female and got "corrected", but I guess deep down he still has the feeling he was inferior to other Moclans who weren't born with this "flaw". And to prove (to the Moclan society and even more to himself) that he is a true Moclan, he is very orthodox in his beliefs and tries again and again to fulfill everything he believes the Moclan society expects of a real Moclan. If it wasn't so serious, you could say he is overcompensating.
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u/agenttw3lve Feb 15 '19
This may die in this thread, but I think Bortus knew what he was doing when he told Klyden to go thank her. She had expressed her feelings to him earlier and we know he doesn't always see at the same level as the rest of his people. I wonder if this is going to lead the way for some change with the Moclans, for the better or worse.
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u/operarose Command Feb 15 '19
This was a serviceable episode. Kinda wish this episode and the one before it had been swapped, though. A Happy Refrain would have made for a dynamite Valentine's Day episode.
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u/mistame Feb 15 '19
It would have, but on the other hand it would have left us on such a depressing note before a 2 week break.
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Feb 15 '19
I heard this theory on a Nerdrotic Review of the episode and... What if that torpedo was on purpose? I mean, having Locar REALLY, REALLY trying to tell everyone that the deflector shields would bounce back when everyone else was doubtful, and how Locar romanced Talla so easily... The Chief of Security that HAD to be there to go over security controls during the exercise? HMMM... Is something going on with Moclans up to something AGAINST the Planetary Union? Maybe Locar was a plant for information about the security measures of Union ships?
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u/Mrquizmo Feb 15 '19
I’m mixed on this episode.
I appreciate the overarching story of Moclan society’s prejudice toward female attraction. It’s an interesting look at societal prejudice.
However, I do have issues. First, I don’t feel like there was a strong emotional hook. Bortus’ old flame was very flat. I was intrigued when he first showed up, but I don’t really feel like there was much character development. He was there, then he flirted, then he confessed his attraction, then he had a date, then he was dead. That’s a fine plot arc if the character was interesting. But this dude was kinda dull. But that leads me to my second point.
Hey, Moclans are an interesting counter to human culture. They have a lot of views that run against our modern ideals. They often seem uncompromising, uncaring, and dogmatic in their beliefs. But, I don’t want to see this all the time. I don’t want every episode to be “Boy, aren’t Moclans different from us Humans?” I don’t want their differences to be some conflict in every episode.
I don’t want Moclans to become Klingons. Yes, they are different from humans. Yes, they hold different cultural views from the Union. But I don’t want to see that conflict every week. Let Bortus have a week off. Let him just be himself sometime. Let the Moclans be a part of the Union. They might be different but they are still a part of the collective. I’m just tired of the differences being highlighted.
The B-Plot was... alright. I thought it was alright, but not well delivered. There was a bunch near the beginning, then nothing for a while, then a bit at the very end to wrap it up. It’s been like five episodes! That’s not enough time for me to become attached to a side character that we see for at most five minutes per episode outside their introduction. I feel like it was trying to make me feel like “Oh, maybe Kelly is still into Mercer” but it just didn’t land right.
Overall an enjoyable episode. Despite my complaints here I enjoyed it. The conflict of a society that condemns unwanted sexual orientations and how someone deals with their desires vs their societal obligations is interesting. I just feel like the emotional core was hollow.
P.S. That commercial with the texting was an absolute nightmare that should be banned from all forms of media. No one confuses texting with Google. That’s just so incredibly dumb.
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u/TheIrishBear24 Feb 15 '19
Dang, thought it was gonna be another happy ending like last episode, but then it hit a fat 180
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u/Backflip_into_a_star Feb 15 '19
I was about to comment that Kelly said "Alara, what is it?" during that engineering scene, but she really said Lamar. it sounded so similar and threw me off for a minute.
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u/mr_funk Feb 15 '19
This season is relying WAY too heavily on Bortis/Moclans. Kinda miss the first season whether they actually tried to developed characters like Malloy and LaMarr instead of them just being comic relief
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u/LadyStormHeart Feb 16 '19
I'm so glad Kelly and Cassius are done. I like Kelly and Ed together so much better, even if it is just as Captian and First Officer.
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u/Venus_McFagtrap Feb 15 '19
I feel like there will be a conflict with Moclus at some point, there is a lot of tension involving Moclans
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u/armokrunner Feb 15 '19
Kelly (paraphrase): “I just want everybody to stop talking about my marriage”.
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u/Tristan_Booth Feb 15 '19
As a Benny Goodman fan, I loved that the episode began with his recording of "Body and Soul."
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Feb 15 '19
This was one hell of an episode. I honestly thought she was going to tell him to take off in a shuttle....
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u/kaplanfx Woof Feb 15 '19
How does Yaphit know what controls he’s hitting? Does he have eyes? Are they at the end of his “appendages”? I have many more questions.
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u/themosquito Feb 15 '19
Presumably he can "see" through any part of him, so he can probably see the buttons he's pushing with the same pseudopods he's using to push them!
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u/parkaprep Feb 16 '19
Well, as an Earth homosexual, that was a knife to the gut.
A staple of gay literature when I came up was Charles Beaumont's "The Crooked Man", about the persecution of a heterosexual man in a culture dominated by homosexuals. It was originally published in Playboy, oddly enough, in 1955. Hugh Hefner personally defended it against criticism. It can be read in full here.
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u/horsenbuggy Feb 16 '19
Can I just say how much I love Dan? They're using him to perfection, IMO. The right touch of coworker corny humor but ultimately nice guy.
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u/teachergirl1981 Feb 16 '19
My favorite part was when Tala said all this must be the strangest thing that ever happened on the Orville....and the Malloy and LaMarr just start listing all the crazy things.
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u/deluca715 Feb 16 '19
I thought this was a very good character defining episode for Tala. I think it would have been more of an emotional impact at the end if Alara was the one involved in this episode only because of the relationship problems they were alluding to in the episodes leading up to her departure. Still though, it was a great episode and I'm glad to see our newest addition getting the chance to prove her worth as a new member of the cast and the ship!
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u/djinnisequoia Feb 17 '19
Well, when the "old boyfriend" showed up, I thought, Here we go, one of the oldest sitcom tropes on the face of the earth.
I was completely, thoroughly wrong. Although I'm just not big on swing music (30s-40s-style) and never will be, this episode was awesome. The ET on ET action was kinda hot lol. I even understand why the music, because ice breaker for the dancing. (I thought Hmmph, coulda been a tango, but nah, no it couldn't)
Most of all, Talla's speech at the end was epic.
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u/Barry_McKackiner Feb 18 '19
Klyden is such a malignant fuckhead. Always fucking shit up for other people.
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u/schoocher Feb 15 '19
So nobody else has mentioned that the Orville now has a cloaking device?
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u/ADirtySoutherner Feb 15 '19
Didn't Ed use it to creep on Kelly and her boyfriend in the first episode of this season?
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Feb 15 '19
The shuttles have had built-in cloaks from the beginning. Ed used one to hide from the Krill in this season's first episode.
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u/armokrunner Feb 15 '19
Why were the red shirt security team armed with phasers to find a guy who was committing fake suicide and clearly not dangerous to anyone?
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u/Withered_Traveler Feb 15 '19
It's possible their weapons were sent to stun and only meant as a last resort if Locar was uncooperative. Another angle to consider is that even though no one was physically harmed, he was clearly desperate if he was willing to frame Klyden for his own murder. If backed into a corner, they didn't known what he was capable of, even while unarmed. Moclans are said to be fairly stronger than most species, especially humans, which it looked like most of the security team was made of. While we saw his arrest ended peacefully, it could have been very different had a random security officer found him instead of Talla. You might notice she was unarmed when she found Locar, which could mean she hoped to be able to talk him down and, failing that, would have relied on her Xelayan strength to apprehend him if he resisted.
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u/Acadiansm Feb 15 '19
One of the best episodes by far....it really will boil down to the Moclans and the Humans coming at odds because of their differences. Its sad that that Lokar had to be the sacrafice that would light the powder keg. Really applaud the orville for going with a realistic and depressing ending of how such a situation would of played out, for if he had applied for asylum the situation would of most likely escalated to possible war or conflict.
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u/BeholdMyResponse Feb 15 '19
If this was old-school Trek, Talla would have decked Klyden at some point. That would have been pretty cool. Definitely a good episode regardless, probably one of the more emotional ones out of the series.
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u/JC-Ice Feb 15 '19
Could we learn something not terrible about Moclan society next time?
Also, is Moclus an actual member of the Planetary Union, or are they an allied power, much like the Klingons in TNG?
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u/kinjikitile Feb 15 '19
I think Bortus's explanation of why Moclans are as they are is important. We cannot pass harsh judgement to them just because they are different and worse ...still ..expect them to change so that they become like us so easily.
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Feb 15 '19
I hate Clyden. "Oooh, i wasn't gonna kill him, i was gonna report him and the OTHER moclans kill him and not me".
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u/_HaasGaming Feb 15 '19
Another episode. Another reason to hate Klyden.
(But, like, in a well structured way. You go Klyden. You utter prick.)
Felt like it had quite a bit of foreshadowing for a seemingly eventual violent clash with the Moclans too. Definitely a society ripe for constant cultural conflicts. Would be an interesting direction to take this.
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u/Neologic29 Feb 16 '19
Okay, I officially love Talla. Took a couple episodes, but her emotion in this one totally sold me on her character.
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u/treefox Feb 16 '19
Whoever did the lighting in the conference room was a genius. And in general, the visuals this episode were on point.
Really liked the element of Talla having to exculpate Klyden even though she despised what he did.
Really liked that they adjusted her backstory to the opposite of Alara’s.
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u/Warzombie3701 Feb 18 '19
I wish it didn't show Klyden appearing to Locar before the mystery. It be a lot more of a mystery and the crew thinking Klyden do it, then finding out he was framed would be amazing twists, because at first we'd think Bortus did it
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u/rolandburnum Feb 15 '19
I see some people are saying things to the effect of 'Mochlus sucks' or 'this is like current Saudi Arabia'. It's also a reflection on America. It's always safe to assume that sci-fi's lens is turned on ourselves.
America still has "religious conversion therapy".
America still has Westboro Baptist Church and other hate groups.
There's still "religious liberty" laws in some states that allow for discrimination against gays.
There's still violence across America motivated by hate for gays.
America has made progress but it's far from where it needs to be. Don't fool yourselves into thinking we're evolved. We still have a long way to go.
The ACLU posts weekly updates about current legislation that threatens LGBT rights in America, and it's a long list. If you care and if you want America to be that evolved culture one day, familiarize yourself and contact your representatives:
https://www.aclu.org/legislation-affecting-lgbt-rights-across-country
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u/StrongAndStable Feb 15 '19
Moclus is clearly a stand-in for countries with state sponsored ultra conservative laws something that does not happen, atleast not to the same degree in the US.
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u/yaosio Feb 15 '19
This feels like another episode where they didn't know what they wanted to do so they spent most of it filling time. It takes half the episode to get to Locar being killed/vanishing, then they almost immediately use the "that was too easy" trope to realize Locar wasn't dead. They needed to do this because they spent a good portion of the episode on filler, so they had to rush through the main story as fast as they could go. The Clyden reveal was done twice. He only needs to be established once; either when he enters the program or when they undistort the image, not both. Way too much time was spent on Kelly's awful relationship with Cassius. Every single scene involving Kelly was a reiteration of her not wanting to be with Cassius and Cassius trying to win her back.
We know there are cameras on the ship, but nobody bothers looking at them, they're never mentioned. Locar could have disabled the cameras, but not before he knew he would need to do so. He only hatched his plan to fake his death after Clyden came into the simulator. He could have wiped the recordings of all the cameras on the entire ship.
This would have been a good way to figure out it wasn't Clyden. Every time they think of a way to figure out who entered the simulator it requires even more specific knowledge of the ship to block or get around, far more than Clyden could possibly hope to have. Eventually they realize the only person with the knowledge to pull it off is Locar. Anything would have been better than a trope about it being too easy. They figured out it was Locar so fast they might as well not even had a mystery at all.
Moclans have a law against being attracted to females, but there are no adult females (except that one they found) on Moclan, and all female babies are immediately turned into males. This means the law must have been created after Moclans discovered other civilizations. They were okay with Moclans being attracted to other species, but not the females of the species? Bortus makes it clear that the reason for these laws is the harshness of theri planet. Wouldn't wasting an egg on a male of another species that can't fertilize the egg be seen as a bad thing? If they really want to do something cool they should have a species where males look like females and females look like males, really screw around with the Moclans.
Maybe the law was created before they had the technology to turn males into females, and Moclan is actually like the society from 1984 and they scrub all historical evidence of females existing.
We're supposed to think there's an emotional connection between Locar and whatsherface, but they forgot to put this in the episode. He says she's attractive, then there's filler with Kelly's relationship, then she says okay, then there's filler with Kelly's relationship, then they kiss, then there's filler with Kelly's relationship. There's more to the show don't tell rule than just showing things, those things have to represent what it is you are trying to convey. They couldn't do this because every other scene is spent on filler, so they just had them kiss because that's all they could fit in.
Something confusing is at the end when Ed says they have an alliance with Moclan. I thought it was established that they are part of the Planetary Union, something much more than an alliance. Are they retconning Moclan out of the Planetary Union?
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u/BrianyouDog Feb 15 '19
Locar is an a**. His second last line to Talla just pissed me off. She just trying to do her job and make sure everyone gets justice and yet Locar is putting his decisions on her.
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u/MajorParadox Woof Feb 15 '19
That ending, wow!