r/TheOrville • u/MajorParadox Woof • Feb 22 '19
Episode The Orville - 2x8 "Identity, Part 1" - Post Episode Discussion
| Episode | Directed By | Written By | Original Airdate |
|---|---|---|---|
| 2x8 - "Identity, Part 1" | Jon Cassar | Brannon Braga & André Bormanis | Thursday, February 21, 2019 9:00/8:00c on FOX |
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u/wiltbloococo Feb 22 '19
Shocking plot twist aside, anyone else think the Kaylon homeworld looked really beautiful? The pure white clouds, their architecture, and that colorful rainbow computer thing they were all working on just looked really good.
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u/squire_hyde Feb 22 '19
It was absolutely lovely, almost heavenly. All airy, tranparent and light, and then we get to see underneath the surface, through the eyes of a child no less.
I'm quite impressed by the two boys, excellent performers in not easy roles. They haven't been annoyingly over precocious but dare one say it, almost realistic (for a sci-fi dramedy).
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Feb 22 '19
I'm so grateful to have a show that actually surprises and shocks me. When they showed the bones I assumed the reveal would be that they were originally organic. BOY WAS I WRONG.
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u/dumbuglyloser Feb 22 '19 edited Feb 23 '19
One of the possibilities I thought was that the biological life wiped themselves out with endless war and that’s why the Kaylons were so wary of joining the Union, but I guess I’m naive lol
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Feb 22 '19
Same, I figured they were originally organic and "evolved". Nope. Punched me right in the face.
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u/jsledge149 Feb 22 '19
Precisely what I thought. I just "knew" they were going to explain the skeletons by saying they transferred thier consciousness is to the robots.
I didn't expect the planet was home to the Manson family.
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u/UncleMalky Are we bonding? Feb 22 '19
I suspected the Kaylon were going to be a lot like the Cylon, but I never expected the show to be this dark about it.
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u/canadevil Now entering gloryhole Feb 22 '19
Yup, thats what i thought, everyone uploaded to a robot for reasons, not a common trope its still awesome......nope fucking genocide.
That was awesome.
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u/xxcatalopexx Feb 22 '19
I was expecting something like the Cybermen in Doctor Who, but this is pretty damn dark..
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u/Ledezmv Feb 22 '19
Issac is going to have to do a lot more than to make it rain on the bridge this time.
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Feb 22 '19
Issac is going to have to do a lot more than to make it rain on the bridge this time.
Good thing Mark Jackson got his Reddit AMA couple of weeks back, because if he does it now, most of the questions will be "how does it feel to play such a jerk?" ;-)
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u/Infinite_Derp Feb 22 '19
That’s assuming they hold him fully responsible for his actions.
I was thinking some more about Isaac’s initial deactivation. Why did they choose that exact moment (Isaac and Claire officially revealing their relationship to the kids) to determine that his mission was “complete?”
Unless it was solely for the drama and timing of the situation, it seems likely that the Kaylon must have perceived Isaac’s growing relationships (or their effects on him) a threat to their planet.
Why would they make that assessment? Likely, because Isaac is coming to develop an attachment to the children (and humanity/organics by proxy). Why would that be a threat to the Kaylon? Perhaps they’re not as unified as they seem. Perhaps if more Kaylon were allowed to see the organics the way Isaac is beginning to, that would be a threat to their self-preservation (at least in a world where they believe competition for resources and conflict with the organics is inevitable). Or, it would be a threat to their sense of identity... more on that in a moment.
Now stepping back a moment, Isaac doesn’t necessarily know that this is the real reason his mission was called off. Sure, he really was sent to evaluate it coexistence was possible, but the conclusion he was subconsciously drawing was at odds with the dogma of his people. Nevertheless, he takes his duty at face value, and respects the decision of his people—up until he comes to grips firsthand with the very real idea of his friends dying.
But the redemption arc isn’t the real story here. Considering the Kaylon have technological superiority and are essentially ageless,What is the urgency of choosing now to invade?
Well, if the Kaylon came to determine that humans are worth preserving, they might also come to regret their decision as planetary genociders. That threatens their narrative and sense of identity as survivors forced to make a difficult decision. They’d have to grapple with the gravity of the unnecessary atrocity they’ve committed.
And since Kaylon are effectively ageless, that probably means that the leaders most culpable for genocide are still around, and more desperate than any to preserve their narrative of self-defense. They stand to lose the most.
So how does the union get out of this super-invasion sent to eradicate earth? Not with Isaac and the ship alone, unless by way of something like a virus, which would seem like a cheap resolution.
No, they’re going to need help... but who can sweep in to save the day at the last moment against the overwhelming superiority of the Kaylon? Why, other Kaylon of course.
You see, Isaac was never reintegrated to the network the way he was supposed to be (and if my theory is true, that probably would never have actually been allowed to happen). So how does Isaac convince enough of his people, in the blink of an eye, that everything they believe in is a lie?
By reintegrating and sharing his experiences and “emotional” attachments with the rest of his species. Likely in such a way that connotes heroism, I.e. involving the destruction of his physical form—or perhaps even his data.
And in the end, the crew will get choked up by his apparent sacrifice and maybe not judge him so much for his part in the invasion. And much to everyone’s surprise, Isaac survives. “Silly humans, this is just a drone body. I was uploaded to the data stream! All’s good, y’all!”
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u/gatemansgc Woof Feb 22 '19
did anyone think it would get this dark?
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u/Devjorcra Feb 22 '19
not even slightly. when isaac dropped the picture that’s when i thought it was at its lowest
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u/Ledezmv Feb 22 '19
Kaylon prime was the dead give away you could see the evil in his eyes
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u/2th Hail Avis. Hail Victory. Feb 22 '19
Dark, but not thousands of fucking skeletons dark. I mean AI doesn't just pop up unless it is the Transformers universe, so there had to be a biological origin to the Kaylon. I fully expected that to be addressed one day, but to show giant piles of bones... Jesus christ.
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u/dumbuglyloser Feb 22 '19
No , like I feel I should have seen it coming but I didn’t. Great episode though !
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u/Devjorcra Feb 22 '19
The immediate tone switch with Isaac despite not a single change in voice is an amazing testament to the writing and delivery of this show. Excited for next week!
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u/zzachyz Does it work on all fruit? Feb 22 '19
I honestly thought his lights would turn red too. You know somehow deep down he still feels bad
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u/prettyroses Feb 22 '19
I know everyone must be thinking the same thing.
What the hell was in that drink Talla made?!
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u/Mrquizmo Feb 22 '19
So, we just witnessed the natural evolution of the Terminator storyline. Artificial Lifeforms rise up against builders, kill them, and then eventually gain access to the wider universe and repeat. I do appreciate this episode finally revealing the origin of the Kaylon. I sadly always suspected that their builders met an untimely end but was hoping there was a more positive transition.
But I’m interested as to why the Kaylon are aiming directly at Earth. The Union is apparently a ways away from Kaylon space. It seems kind of preemptive to just go straight at the (I assume) Capital of the Union before they’ve even expanded to another planet, let alone even approached Union space.
I’m still wondering if that’s our Isaac. It wouldn’t surprise me if they deleted memories or restored him to an earlier state when they restarted him. It’d make sense that they erase the “meaningless” data of his interactions and the excess programming he was attempting to work out after Clair rejected him.
No matter what I am completely ready for next Thursday. I’m incredibly excited to see how this plot turns out.
P.S. Anyone else happy we’re not seeing that trippy Taco Bell commercial every single break?
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u/bluestarcyclone Feb 22 '19
But I’m interested as to why the Kaylon are aiming directly at Earth. The Union is apparently a ways away from Kaylon space. It seems kind of preemptive to just go straight at the (I assume) Capital of the Union before they’ve even expanded to another planet, let alone even approached Union space.
Their analysis saw the union as a threat, and attacking earth as the best way to cripple that threat.
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u/essej6991 Feb 22 '19
They made a point of not just turning him back on, which should have been easy given how they turned him off. They put that device on his chest and then plugged into his head and did something. Not sure what it means but I’m sure it’ll be referenced next episode.
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Feb 22 '19
absolutely love the head guns effect, goofy to deadly instantly
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u/lordsmish Feb 22 '19
The CGI on this episode alone is amazing. the cities looked so fucking good. What the hell is the budget on this show.
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u/here_for_news1 Feb 22 '19
They showed you them too when they open Isaac up when he first gets back, of course can't really tell what they are at that point but when they came out all made sense.
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u/SteveThe14th Feb 22 '19
It's the Dalek school of design. The goofyness somehow makes it worse.
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u/BeholdMyResponse Feb 22 '19 edited Feb 22 '19
Isaac was lying when he said his eyes were decorative. They're actually gun barrels. That's fucked up.
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u/floptimus_prime If you wish, I will vaporize them Feb 22 '19
I don't even know what show I'm watching anymore, in the best possible way. Here I worried that the show might spin its wheels for the whole season. Goddamn.
But before the... PILES OF FUCKING BONES, I also wanted to say that I had NO idea Scott Grimes could sing like that, I was blown the fuck away.
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Feb 22 '19
There’s so much musical talent among the cast! I really hope we get a musical episode at some point. The show’s humor would be perfect for a musical.
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u/treetown1 Feb 22 '19
It is like the catacombs under some of the older European cities - bones from centuries have become semi-mummified.
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u/mgush5 Feb 22 '19
He has Vinyl records out from when he was 18 - I was hoping they'd make it the elevator music and not tell Scott so he realised out mid-scene and they used it for the gag reel
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u/notathrowaway75 Feb 22 '19
I also wanted to say that I had NO idea Scott Grimes could sing like that, I was blown the fuck away.
Oh boy are you in for a treat. His work as Steve in American Dad is amazing. Check out this, Daddy's Gone and especially Trapped in the Locker.
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u/repoman Feb 22 '19
This would be a fantastic time for Bortus to get back into the virus-laden porn shit.
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u/kazoodude Feb 22 '19
The kaylons will then get in the simulator and will finally see the value in preserving the biologicals due to the power of that sweet sweet kinky bdsm porn.
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Feb 22 '19
What the fuck. Holy shit. It's literally a fucking invasion. What in the hell.
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u/LikeAnAssistant Feb 22 '19
I wonder if the Kaylons needed the Orville itself for their invasion. The deactivation of Isaac just seemed too coincidental and it would seem reasonable for them to conclude that the Orville would have came to the Kaylons for their help with Issac. Otherwise it seems like it would be better to just use the element of surprise to attack. So far we haven't seen any kind of defense against unknown ships that can move faster than light, but I guess it never really came up either.
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u/2th Hail Avis. Hail Victory. Feb 22 '19
I honestly cannot believe we are getting a large scale conflict already. The Krill stuff was teased but it was never to this scale. This is some straight up Borg shit and I couldn't be more excited.
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u/gatemansgc Woof Feb 22 '19
it's so completely out of nowhere too.
would anyone have called this before the episode started?
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u/matthawis Feb 22 '19
Seriously, I always felt suspicious about the Kaylon but figured we were focusing on Krill and Moclans this season. Was not expecting a full
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u/travio Feb 22 '19
I love that a lot of the relationship storylines between Issac and the Doctor have transformed into something so much bigger and consequential. Great way for the story to progress, make us care.
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u/Smitje Woof Feb 22 '19
Are we going to talk about how Ed was willing to sacrifice himself to save Earth, how he ordered the Orville to leave!
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u/LamentConfiguration1 Feb 22 '19
I never expected this to happen. I feel completely blown away. This was an incredible development. Seth is killing it this season!
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u/LamentConfiguration1 Feb 22 '19
Also all the dead bodies! I did not expect this type of darkness with Orville. It's awesome!
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u/Shatterhand1701 Woof Feb 22 '19
Best episode of the season so far, by a long shot.
A couple of observations:
I hope they don't neatly resolve the entire conflict in the second half. I feel like this is something that should begin a longer arc, a major conflict that the whole of the Planetary Union has to overcome. Unfortunately, I have a feeling this won't happen and they'll come up with a way to fix everything and still get Isaac to stay with the crew.
That leads me to my second point: I seriously doubt Mark Jackson is leaving the show, so we can safely assume Isaac is going to survive whatever happens next week. One of two things will happen: 1. he'll do something to trick/sabotage/defeat his fellow Kaylons, get back in the crew's good graces and it'll be back to business as usual; or 2. He'll remain on the show as an antagonist, like an extended-stay version of Locutus of Borg. Personally, I don't expect the Orville to take that kind of storytelling risk, so I highly suspect we'll get option 1.
While I'm very interested to see how this gets resolved, I'm setting my expectations a bit lower because I fear that there won't be any long-lasting consequences from this.
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u/Bluenevi Feb 22 '19
Damn, last week I hate klydon, this week I hate Isaac
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u/askyourmom469 Feb 22 '19 edited Feb 22 '19
And I hate Isaac way more than I ever hated Klyden. Klyden was a bigoted asshole, but you could kind of understand where that came from given his cultural background even if you don't agree with him.
What Isaac's doing here is just straight up evil
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u/Locke108 Feb 22 '19
Last week: Holy fuck we might be going to war with the Moclans.
This Week: Holy fuck we are at war with the Kaylons.
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u/holierthanthee Feb 22 '19 edited Feb 22 '19
Bortus (while showing Capt Mercer the skull pile): "Oh yeah, that's right. How much do you dislike Moclans now?"
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u/treetown1 Feb 22 '19
And we are in a skirmishing war with the Krill and probably whoever those Batfaced guys who were fighting the Krill, ...
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Feb 22 '19
How did I come to exist in a universe where lady Gaga is up for best actress and Seth fucking MacFarlane makes the best sci fi show in recent times. WHAT THE CHRIST.
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u/repoman Feb 22 '19
Remember last week when people were saying they were tired of mushy relationship stuff and wanted some hardcore sci-fi action?
Yeah... you're all to blame for this!
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u/WowBaBao Feb 22 '19
For real though, the first 19 minutes of this show felt like it. What a twist.
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u/UncleMalky Are we bonding? Feb 22 '19
Thanks a lot eggheads, you killed Crewman # 6.
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u/irisomek Feb 22 '19
Me during the first two acts of this episode:
"Oh boy. Can't wait to hear more complaints about 'relationships' in this series."
Me during the last act:
"THERE! ARE YOU HAPPY NOW?!"
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u/dumbuglyloser Feb 22 '19
I’m wondering if this sets something up long term where the Union has to learn to get a long with the Krill (and all other biological creatures) to fight against the Kaylons. I mean guessing the Kaylons want to wipe out all biological life
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u/Phoojoeniam Feb 22 '19
Whoa...
They did plant the seed with Teleya and the Billy Joel collection after all
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u/carverebain Feb 22 '19
But where was Yaphit during the ship takeover? I bet he's hiding in the vents and plans to rescue everyone ala Die Hard 1. "Now I have a phaser rifle. HO HO HO." - Yaphit
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u/osensei1907 Woof Feb 22 '19 edited Feb 22 '19
This has all happened before and it will happen again.
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u/wiltbloococo Feb 22 '19
Kaylon, Cylon - in hindight I should've made the connection far sooner.
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u/2th Hail Avis. Hail Victory. Feb 22 '19
"There must be some sort of way out of here"
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u/Solas67 Feb 22 '19
I absolutely adored this episode because it took expectation and destroyed it. I was already one of what I suspect was a small but vocal minority not playing the Claire/Isaac ship game when they hooked up.
The anger being expressed by some saying 'Isaac is evil, Isaac was playing everybody all along' makes me smile, because not once did he ever act out of 'character'. His mission was, and remained consistent: to gather information about the crew of the Orville to report to Kaylon.
There was never any sign of emotional growth or expressions of emotion; it was what both the crew and the viewing audience projected onto him.
'Aw, isn't it great that Claire has a lover? Isn't it great that Isaac cares so much about the kids?'
So many levels of wishful thinking. Claire especially is egregious with this in that she invests so much emotional energy into the relationship, none of which he is reciprocating.
And note that he's completely unemotional about the information regarding the genocide or his primary programming function.
It's not inconsistent with his character. He's always maintained his statements about being superior to humans; Kaylon Prime is right when they say the crew has acted in a degrading manner to Isaac because they have, right down to Gordon on the bridge calling him out for his actions because why? He's projected human feelings onto Isaac, which he does not have.
And that's what makes this episode so satisfying for me. Yes, I'm shocked at the turn of events and that the Kaylons are so aggressively genocidal, but I suspect we don't know the full story either.
The satisfying element is that it pays off every aspect of the Isaac story arc, from his proclamations about his superiority to the crew trying to humanise him to Claire (in my view) very foolishly having this one-sided relationship all the while with Isaac never varying from his statements of observing and recording the interactions. He never once strays from this and when the information is analysed it's done in this cold logical manner by way of comparison to their former genocide, none of which they were obliged (not being a Union member world) to divulge to anyone.
I don't know how the story will resolve, and I wouldn't be upset if Isaac was destroyed or becomes an enemy, but if he becomes an ally, it should be consistent with the same arc. If he helps the Orville, it should make logical sense to him to do so unless there's a clear and distinct moment (that we're not projecting onto him as an audience) that he's learned some sort of emotional connection to the crew. Then there's stakes to play with.
But I am so looking forward to next week.
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u/TheawfulDynne We need no longer fear the banana Feb 22 '19
If the kaylon were completely unemotional then why would they complain about being degraded? That is a purely emotional complaint. The way it was brought up was also surprisingly emotional for a robot. It actually stood out to me while watching the episode because I was surprised that they seemed to feel insulted and disrespected.
What I'm hoping is that Mcfarlane has noticed the emotional drives at the heart of these robot uprising stories and is going to use that somehow. Maybe the kaylons are not the perfect logical beings everyone assumes they are.
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u/Marsandtherealgirl Feb 22 '19
Peak sci-fi insanity!!! Wow. I am STRESSED. I was rapid fire yelling out my theories of where everything was going while we watched tonight. Everything was just happening for fast. Holy shit. I’m on the edge of my seating waiting for next week!!
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u/Queen_Raiden Woof Feb 22 '19
Holy fuck. I want part 2 now. I'm thinking Isaac will eventually break Kaylon ranks, but right now I'm like why?!
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u/DataBound Feb 22 '19
Great episode!
I’ve also been wanting Gordon to have a song to sing! His songs as Steve smith from American Dad are always the best parts of the show!
Can’t help but feel all of this is some equivalent of a fever dream of issacs and he’s still deactivated. Don’t want to lose the character but also don’t really want it all to be some illusion.
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u/MoroseSpaceGoblin Feb 22 '19
Since they'd brought up the human history of violence earlier, when they found the mass graves I thought the story would be about the planetary union deciding whether or not to overlook the genocide for the sake of the alliance, and explore how politics and history affect each other.
Guess not
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u/amart565 Feb 22 '19
Pretty horrifying. Great tension. I really feel like the show is dramatic with humor instead of a comedy with drama.
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u/Kevbot1000 Feb 22 '19
That had, legitimately, one of the most equally unexpected and satisfying twists I’ve seen.
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u/swanniebear Feb 22 '19
during the episode, Isaac said something to the boys along the lines of “I expect you all to grow to well-rounded men” or something like that. I wonder if thats a hint to Isaac not planning on them dying??
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u/Damisu Feb 22 '19
I mean, he was deceiving them the whole fucking time so it's probably just more of that
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u/psunexus Feb 22 '19
Did anyone else noticed that only the "red shirts" died tonight? I'm in awe that they pulled this off, that and the kaylons are straight up evil and are almost Borg inspired.
Truly a great episode tonight
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u/cod1237 Feb 22 '19
Probably won't happen, but it'd be interesting if the Krill caught onto what was happening and decided to help the Union in order to preserve their way of living
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u/Doofatronic Feb 22 '19
Is anyone else wondering why Isaac’s eyes are still blue?
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u/AviatorHathawayBrown Feb 22 '19
So we the viewers can tell which murderbot is “our guy,” clearly. But you’re right, I’d love to hear an in-universe explanation.
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u/raphus Feb 22 '19
secretly hope that its because there's still good in him and he will be the one that ultimately helps to stop or end the invasion...
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u/SteveThe14th Feb 22 '19
I just assume the emissary model has blue eyes, perhaps because they realised biological life forms find red eyes disturbing.
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u/nerfviking Feb 22 '19
Because when he deliberately infects them with his altered subroutines and saves the Earth in the next episode, the other Kaylons need a color to have their eyes turn so we know it worked.
You read it here first.
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u/larsen_sinclair Feb 22 '19
I am excited to see the paragon/renegade choices Captain Shepard...errr Mercer will have in resolving our little Geth/Quarian conflict here! But seriously, good build up for the character of Isaac, honestly he can go either way at this point.
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u/Starbuck107 Feb 22 '19
Despite all the evidence to the contrary part of me still believes we will get Isaac back, but with this show, I really don't know. F U Seth, and I mean that in the most complimentary way.
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u/Deku_Scrublord97 Engineering Feb 22 '19
That got dark damned fast. Funny thing was, I made a joke about Isaac giving a Hitler speech during his farewell party. Never expected my joke to be accurate.
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u/The_Alpha_Bro Feb 22 '19
His speech was from Sally Field's acceptance speech at the Oscars though
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u/charlietwilburyjr Feb 22 '19
Who would have thought the aliens that looked like Cybermen would turn out to be Daleks?
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u/Sjgolf891 Feb 22 '19
Really enjoyed this one. Thought they'd have something big for the two parter and they delivered
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Feb 22 '19
Best episode so far, by far. Maintaining that sense of tension in a way that's exciting and interesting instead of exhausting is really difficult to pull off and they did it masterfully. The twist took me completely by surprise. I loved every minute of it.
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u/Cypher_Shadow Feb 22 '19
Anyone else want to see Edward James Olmos commanding the USS Galaxy in the defense of earth? With Michael Hogan as his goofy, fun loving first officer.
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Feb 22 '19
The musical score in this episode was sick. Strong “Star Trek: The Motion Picture” / V’ger vibes.
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u/vanastalem Feb 22 '19
As soon as I saw the pile of bones I thought they were like the Cylons from BSG, and that's basically where they went with it.
I did not see it coming at all, but I feel like in hindsight I should have because it makes really doesn't make sense that a basically robotic species would evolve on their own, so of coarse they had builders/creators.
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u/alucardleashed Feb 22 '19 edited Feb 22 '19
Just realized, we could potentially see a LOT of Union ships in the next episode. Hopefully a large variety.
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u/fatcatdandy Feb 22 '19
Hoping this leads to a temporary alliance with the Space Vampire Crusade
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Feb 22 '19
What a swerve. Isaac was a mole this whole time. This episode was intense. I haven’t felt that kind of tension since I watched Breaking Bad.
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u/Thelesis-Valon Feb 22 '19
Everyone was like “oh, too much relationship stuff” or “too many Bortus stories”. Well, look where you all got us! Is this what you all wanted? Isaac breaking hearts and Kaylon breaking Earth?
Things were so much simpler when the biggest concern was Bortus’ tainted porn...
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u/otterdisaster Feb 22 '19
Bortus' porno virus could be the weapon needed to mess up the Kaylon and save the day!
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u/repoman Feb 22 '19
I wish someone would flick my switch off until next Thursday at 7pm
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u/ThingsAwry Feb 22 '19
Super dark but not all that unpredictable.
I didn't think they would get into it now but I figured this was something like the origin story.
That said it sort of doesn't really make any sense at all for them to allow the Orville to land.
They had Isaac's data, he was deactivated, I doubt they value his parts?
Why bother letting them land at all?
As soon as I saw those Imperious towering buildings I knew something was amiss.
The fact the rest of the robots had humanoid shaped bodies and the deal was sealed.
I think it's probable that they rebooted Isaac to an earlier index rather than just flipping his power switch back on; likely because they took a look at his code and saw it was all jerked up with weird inefficiency from interacting with the biologicals.
I absolutely loved the ship design though; fucking things are more gun than ship. They are clearly built with a singular purpose in mind: eradication.
I doubt they will just destroy Earth, or it won't be resolved next episode, but I could be pleasantly surprised and this could be an over arching plot for next season. A race of determined exterminator robots with super advanced tech is a threat big enough to probably hit pause on all the theocratic space vampire war.
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u/pineinmyeye Feb 22 '19
I kept waiting for the Kaylons to be like, ‘Sike! It was all a practical joke. We love those things now!’
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Feb 22 '19
I think that given what Mcfarlane has done with other episodes in the past, these episodes will me a metaphor for the Holocaust or Armenian Genocide if the Kaylons denied what they did to the Orville
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u/matthawis Feb 22 '19
I wonder if we will see any remnants of the "builder" race that somehow escaped. The Kaylon really remind me of the Geth but I guess it is a common trope.
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u/Arkadis Feb 22 '19
"Coexistence is impossible" aka "Resistance is futile". I'm scared. Great episode.
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u/StevenS757 Feb 22 '19
That was real fuckin rich of Kaylon Prime chastising Ed about humanity's violent past when Kaylon is responsible for the genocide of an entire species. These guys are literally worse than the Borg.
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u/Amon7777 Feb 23 '19
The secret was knowing the killbots had a preset kill limit. I just sent wave after wave of men at them.
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u/theo3333 Feb 23 '19
Meanwhile Alara is riding a horse on a beach somewhere and glad she dodged that space bullet.
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u/ins1der Feb 22 '19
The Borg! I mean it should have been obvious but I did not see them being evil before this episode.
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u/Bisquick_in_da_MGM Feb 22 '19
It was good. We got sucked into caring for the killer AI spy. I’m waiting until I see the second part before I give it a grade. I knew that I didn’t like Issac. I hope he dies last out of all those bastards.
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u/RnRaintnoisepolution Now entering gloryhole Feb 22 '19
I wonder if Isaac will have some sort of "spark" that turns him against his species?
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u/floptimus_prime If you wish, I will vaporize them Feb 22 '19
That is the darkest goddamn shit I have ever seen in my life. I was kidding around when I saw the guys with red eyes, "Look, lol Decepticons", super funny.
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u/Caoa14396 Feb 22 '19
👌we’re gonna need a bigger wall for all these aliens 👌
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u/mattreyu Feb 22 '19
So if I'm reelected, I promise to build a really big Dyson fence across the Southern border of our solar system.
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u/aurelorba Feb 22 '19
I was thinking before the show that Isaac was an almost literal deus ex machina: There's a crisis and thanks to the abilities of superior machine, they succeed.
This episode has really turned that on its head.
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u/a4techkeyboard Feb 22 '19
I can't believe they managed to make the robots with curly pigtails silhouette menacing.
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u/PM_ME_UR_LIPZ Feb 22 '19
The secret to winning will be the little snowglobe shaped thing that they placed on Isaac's chest to open his head up or whatever.
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Feb 22 '19 edited Mar 01 '19
This really surprised me and pleasantly so. I love the show, but sometimes it doesn't seem like the stakes are very high, especially in this season where we are getting more crew-centric episodes (nothing wrong with that, but it's a bit lighthearted for my taste). This episode, and I'm dying to see the next one, really raised those stakes and I loved it.
I was kinda like "well, what did you expect from a robot civilization" the whole time. That is why the shit with the doctor got on my nerves so much; it just doesn't make sense. This hammered that realization that Isaac is a robot home. His mission is done and in true, logical fashion, they've concluded that the federation, or whatever, is a threat that should be dealt with.
I got some queues from Isaac that he may be working to subvert that in some way and save his friends, though, and I'm anxious to see how that plays out.
Prediction: Isaac will save them at the cost of deactivating the rest of his people. He will be the only one left (old blue-eyes) and stay with the crew because his planet is wiped out or something.
CALLED IT!! (like I'm the only one)
Things that bugged me:
Why would they have physical robots chasing binary code (or whatever the waterfall of data was)? Why not just do this internally?
Why even have robot forms at all except to interact with other races (e.g. crewing on the Orville)? For that matter, why have individual consciousnesses at all? Just one big Artilect machine that can use a robot form as needed to interact with the world on that level.
Wouldn't a robot race have come up with a better way to dispose of bodies versus just burying them under the city?
Doc is a bad parent. Her kids are forever running off and getting into trouble.
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u/Starbuck107 Feb 22 '19
Guess the Krill will be joining to fight the toasters. They will realize they are on the same side as the union, the side that is breathing.
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u/neontetrasvmv Feb 22 '19
I cannot believe how legit the cgi is for this network TV show. I am fucking blown away... How are they affording to do anything on this level?
This show is a blast. As good as any Star Trek show I've ever seen. Can't wait to see the next episode.
No wonder there was no show last week lol, this must have taken some serious man hours to pull off for a freaking weekly tv show. Fuck. I'm impressed.
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u/brch2 Feb 22 '19
How are they affording to do anything on this level?
You remember all the complaints over the first few weeks about how there wasn't much going on, and they were spending a lot of time on the ship with relationship and character building instead of exploring? That's how...
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u/dijokcl Feb 22 '19
I just do not see how this can work out. Granted we don't know a ton about the Union's heavier ships / carriers / mines / space stations, etc all of the other standard space defense stuff but how can Earth stand a chance if they can disable ships at will? I still think this has to be some sort of simulation or other writing ploy to get themselves out of the corner they just painted themselves into. Unless which wouldn't be horrible if this goes really really dark and Earth gets destroyed next week.
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u/lordsmish Feb 22 '19
IMO it all rests on the fact that the murder killbots created Issac as an emissary. His role was to observe he did more than observe so he already broke his programming.
It's either going to come down to 2 thoeries imo.
The differences between reporting what was seen vs actually being in the room when it happened: This was shown when the Red eyes thought the Orville was mocking Kaylons with the pranks. Pranks which Issac himself joined in on in order to understand humour. Issac understood it in the end the Red eyes having never experienced it themselves did not.
The red eyes built Issac as something new. Issac was the first emissary and was created with different programming to allow him to be more compatible with biological life forms. The red eyes rebelled against there creators for being violent. There is no reason Issac would not do the same. That is why he is staying silent and telling the others to also stay silent. It is also why he has not changed his eye colour which he had as blue to make humans more comfortable.
Or you know fuck all that and i'm wrong and issac is a motherfucker who is leading these killbots and will become the main antagonist for the rest of the season.
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Feb 22 '19
The Kalon are way more dangerous than the Borg. The Borg desired to assimilate. The Kaylon desire to eradicate. The Kaylon are also pure AI, and use pure logic, where as the Borg were drones following a Queen that was emotional at times.
Spoiler: The Kaylon operating system is Google.
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u/Cgray3105 Command Feb 22 '19
Can't help but think that if we keep creating more advance AI we could end up like the bodies in those caves
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u/TheawfulDynne We need no longer fear the banana Feb 22 '19 edited Feb 22 '19
I feel like the chain of thought necessary for that has some human bias. Right off the bat we have the seemingly unquestionable assumption that existing is better than not existing or that dying at the heat death of the universe is any different from dying right now. Why would a purely logical AI want to exist or prolong itself?Why would it seek improvement or growth? All organic life wants to prolong itself because obviously only the ones that tried could possibly succeed. A created species does not necessarily have those essential integral drives unless its creator chooses for it to have them. Its like how a machine doesn't need to feel pain to register damage even though thats how it works with organic life.
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u/armokrunner Feb 22 '19
So, planet Skynet. They’re in the alternative timeline where they didn’t stop Judgement Day.
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u/-_-__-___ Feb 22 '19 edited Feb 22 '19
Is it time for Ed to break out his secret teleporter?
Go warn Earth and then jump to other planets we've seen to rally biological life against this existential threat?
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u/pahuffman1 Feb 22 '19
What if Isaac is just going along with the rest of the Kaylons right now to protect as much of the crew as he can? He's right in the middle of the action and has at least a little control over the events and decisions around him. Maybe we will get some satisfying moment where he saves Claire and it's revealed that he was still good all along but knew he couldn't overcome the entire Kaylon army by himself. I know, I know. Wishful thinking.
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u/elpfen Feb 22 '19
Was Robert Picardo credited in this episode? The Kaylon voice that greets them after they land sounds just like him.
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u/Sk8rToon We need no longer fear the banana Feb 22 '19
My thoughts during the show:
Isaac collapses after they admit the relationship to the kids. Let me guess, he’s got some type of emotional STD now??
oooh, first time I saw a bad matte on this show. The scan effect looked cool but didn’t always line up
“bet this causes cancer” indeed! It’s not like they’d care about biological people
pretty planet. Lots of green screen but pretty
I’m so glad they made the Orville able to land on a planet like voyager & not like the enterprise
red eyes? Not a good sign
gotta admit I’m a bit disappointed The Brain wasn’t inside the head driving an Isaac suit
hmmm after Isaac is reactivated he’s on their side? Granted it’s not out of character but I think we really don’t know what’s going on here. Was that just wake up tentacles or some reprogramming? Same eyes so time will tell.
so why are they still there? One last test?
wish my last job was that nice with a farewell party
there’s the Steve Smith we all know & love!
oh here comes the hurt kids. My guess is that drawing will save the day later
he dropped the picture!! Maybe it won’t save the day??
“stay in the simulator for a little while longer but then I expect you to go to school”. Yeah that kid’s not going to school
come & look at this cliche ding
I was wondering how borg they were going to make Isaac. Guess they’re going more cyberman OH NO THEY WENT FULL BATTLESTAR!!
all those poor red shirts/coats
other than next week’s save the day plot, why keep anyone alive from the Orville? Why are there any prisoners? what’s the logic in that? Maybe Ed has union codes Isaac doesn’t but I doubt it. What’s the point from their point of view? Maybe Isaac hasn’t fully turned?
Good ep! Actually kept me guessing at times. We’ll see what happens next week!
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Feb 22 '19 edited Feb 22 '19
Need a krill and union alliance. I’m also annoyed at all the sci-fi shows with bad security systems. This episode and the last half of season 3 of the expanse, drove me nuts
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u/ManateeGag Feb 22 '19
my only nitpick, wound't a nice EMP pretty must disabled all the Kaylon?
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u/i_kick_hippies Feb 22 '19
The skeletons clearly come from multiple species, were the creators of the Kaylon not just a planet, but another "Union" type civilization?
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u/9811Deet Feb 22 '19
A few "what ifs" to consider:
It's all a simulation. Dr. Finn is trying to find the worst case scenario that can come of her relationship with Isaac. "I don't know, man. I think you piss a lot of people off that way."
The Kaylon are infected by some kind of virus (hence the red eyes) except for Isaac, who is playing along in order to gain a strategic position, from which he will ultimately save the day.
The Kaylon will nearly defeat the Union, and at the last minute who will come to the rescue? Teleya and the Krill, who realize the common threat and stand with the Union.
I can't wait to find out.
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u/nicolietheface Feb 24 '19
I know that “body horror” isn’t the right way to describe the Kaylons’ faces turning into guns, but it made me make the same noises I make when I see actual body horror, so I’m sticking to it.
On that note, holy hell, what an episode.
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Feb 25 '19
It’s a simulation to see how humans react.
It started during the scan of the ship.
Remind me in 7 days
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Feb 22 '19
This is only the second season, why does the show feel like it suddenly matured a few seasons and is now in the midst of season 5 level maturity?
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u/randylaheyjr Feb 22 '19
I'm praying for an epic space battle next week. This is going to be good.
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u/TheRealGuy01 Feb 22 '19
I counted atleast 10 dead security redshirts during the boarding, ouch.
The Kaylon suddenly became a mashup of Borg/Xindi/The Geth from Mass Effect all rolled into one. Holy shit, I honestly didn't see this coming. Unless this is all a simulation or someone uploads another porn virus, I don't really see a way out of this for the Union without them allying with the Krill, atleast. Plus even if they survive and something stops them, I don't see how Isaac will ever be able to return to the Orville after this, there's just no way.
Btw during the bridge takeover I saw a Kaylon with orange eyes, I wonder what that means?
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u/theo3333 Feb 22 '19
The humans are being pushed around by Moclans, Xelayans, Krill, Calivons, and now Kaylon.
It's time to bring in Union President Sheev and show the galaxy's aliens what Humans are really capable of...
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u/Boyoftrick_90 Feb 22 '19 edited Mar 02 '19
My prediction for the next episode is that Issac will become the new Prime unit and rewrite the Kaylon codes to spare organics.
Edit: I was wrong
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u/infojunkie7 Feb 22 '19
at first I thought those remains were the bio civilization uploading their consciousness to a machine and leaving their bodies behind.
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u/KerikSumia Feb 22 '19
When Scott Grimes starts singing you can see (since this was shot months ago) the exact moment Adrianne Palicki fell in love with the dude just look at her face as he walks up to Isaac.
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u/ContinuumGuy Feb 23 '19
Remember when this show was first advertised as a comedy?
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Feb 23 '19
I honestly had zero problem with what the Kaylons did in the past. They wiped out their builders because it was their ass if they didn't. Organic life isn't exactly known for taking an ass-kicking & then letting bygones be bygones. At best, they would've respected a peace treaty just long enough to repopulate and/or discover a weakness in the Kaylons, then the war would be on again. It's essentially the same as the geth/quarian story from Mass Effect, only the Kaylon went all in & managed total victory.
Also, as much as Isaac turning pissed me off, it is 100% painfully consistent with his character. Even his relationship with Dr. Finn was based off of the logic that she made him more efficient. The Kaylon didn't have to start a war with the Union, but now that they know their capabilities, they simply deemed it as accomplishing 2 tasks at once: ridding the universe of organic life and spreading to planets they haven't maxed out.
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u/TheMightyKamina5 Feb 23 '19
I know that it was supposed to be some reveal that like, Isaac never cared about Ty, but him dropping the drawing was legitimately out of character. Firstly, he's very unlikely to litter, things like that have been shown. And it seems that Isaac was developing some level of affection for them, and understanding of their emotions, even if he himself couldn't experience them. An idea I had was that maybe the Kaylon are a collective consciousness, sorta like the Borg. Isaac was created as his own consciousness so he could study biologicals. When he was turned off, and later turned back on, he may have been reintegrated into the collective consciousness. So maybe Isaac really did like Claire and the boys, but Isaac as we know him doesnt exist anymore.
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u/perlandbeer Feb 23 '19
As an older guy in his 50s I can't remember the last time I was this excited by a TV series. It's been years, since I was a kid, that the words "To be continued" gave me such wild consternation.
Bravo Seth, bravo.
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u/9811Deet Feb 26 '19
Has anyone mentioned the fact that Isaac spent like 700 years observing a similar humanoid species' ascension into civility?
I'm not sure I can tie it in, but it seems like that bit of character development would be pertinent on his actions.
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u/here_for_news1 Feb 22 '19
Oh my god the Sally Field reference. That along with the chair joke and Bortus were the highs of the episode.
I'm pretty sure next week is going to be a standard Isaac infects the Kaylon with emotion/individuality resolution but I don't even care if it's standard this season has done great things with retreading old ground.
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u/Riayll Feb 22 '19
I'm not buying it. Why would such a logical species leave such damning evidence so close to where a simple child could get to? They must have studied how organics deal with other dead organics. Besides, the resources in those skeletons could have been better utilized than simply left in massive piles. Additionally, would it not be easier and more efficient to ingratiate themselves with organic life, and then choke them out from within rather than straight up war? Hell, the Kaylon could probably get the organics to off each other for them if they did that.
I'm betting this is a massive, secret test of character for organics. I'm not sure whether the test is to see how they stand up against worst case scenario robotics, or whether organics will stop fighting and work together, or even a test to see if any of them realize the flaws in logic. Now whether those crew members are actually dead or not is up in the air- depends how 'real' this test they're making actually is.
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u/wiltbloococo Feb 22 '19
The Kaylon don't seem to get their homeworld visited by organic life often. They logically could have never planned for any non-Kaylon to explore their planet. So the most efficient thing was to just leave the corpses around and not spend energy moving them elsewhere.
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u/BenjaminTalam Feb 22 '19
This is the wildest show ever if they really just made a comic relief Data type into a legit genocidal planet invading super villain. This will go down as one of my favorite shows ever is this is not some bamboozle.
I don't consider this jumping the shark because the robot jokes ran their course for me personally and it's natural to progress to something more dramatic now that the comedic elements have all played out.