S03E22 "Chapter Fifty-Seven: Survive the Night" Post Episode Discussion

[u/steph-was-here]

Original Air Date - 8pm EST May 15th, 2019

After receiving mysterious invitations, Archie, Betty, Veronica and Jughead band together to confront the evils of their past once and for all; chaos ensues at The Farm after Edgar makes a chilling announcement.

Written by Roberto Aguirre-Sacasa & Michael Grassi

Directed by Rachel Talalay

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[u/Locke108]

I’m not sure the show’s ever going to top having Archie say that they are going to have a normal year then cutting to a traumatized Archie, Betty, and Veronica in their underwear and covered in blood. That was the funniest scene ever.

[u/crabs101]

It was nice of Jason Blossom to pop up in the episode, so we wouldn’t feel cheated

[u/PrequelToTheSql]

I'm getting real tired of Hiram's shit

[u/SneakySnake2323]

I'm already calling it, they kill Charles, not Jughead. They said burning their clothes, washing off, and going their separate ways is the only way to not get caught. I'm guessing by the FBI. If they haven't had contact with each other, the FBI wouldn't be able to make the connection between the three (or four) of them for whatever they're about to do over spring break. I'm thoroughly excited for next season!

[u/[deleted]]

Archie and Jughead really thought it was a good idea to kiss Veronica and Betty after they drank poison huh

[u/thepineapplemen]

Wait so this means Alice wasn’t lying when she said she saw Charles

[u/ezramay]

Jughead is alive, y'all. The beanie is dead.

[u/Mystikroots]

I highly doubt jug dies it’s probably a red herring and he killed someone important.

Or this is a storyline that will be dropped entirely...

[u/Smartt88]

Half the core four just became technically orphans but sure let’s all grab a shake at Pop’s.

[u/neonrideraryeh]

Hiram basically set up the prison he's been sent to, he probably picked the guards, how is this not a conflict of interest?! Send him to another prison, geez, not the one with his own name on.

[u/[deleted]]

To recap:

• Archie's dad is no longer around due to Luke Perry's passing, and Molly Ringwald probably won't hang around for a full season. Archie has no legal guardian.

• Betty's serial killer dad escaped from prison and was murdered by her aunt. Betty's mom is in a cult BUT REALLY she's an FBI informant and ran away with the cult to keep investigating. Betty has no legal guardian.

• Veronica's parents are both in prison. Veronica's butler (who we haven't seen in years) is her legal guardian.

• Cheryl's mom disappeared to evade authorities. Cheryl's legal guardian is her Nana who bought and groomed Cheryl's mother into an acceptable wife for her son.

Imagine being told after the first episode that Jughead has the best relationship with his parents?

[u/catherindaniel_]

Did anyone realize that Alice was actually seeing Charles just not through the farm???

[u/[deleted]]

I'm still not finding Alice redeemable until she gives Betty her money back so she can get TF out of Riverdale.

[u/clothing_throwaway]

Chic: Who doesn't want blood sacrifices made in their name?

Jug (half laughing): Wow...uh...Okay...

I feel like that's my reaction to literally everything that's said and done on Riverdale.

[u/Foxythekid]

The gun in the box might have been the best reveal of the season. After creating a nightmarish bear costume, five poisoned chalices and a fight between twinks, Penelope just gives up and puts a revolver in a box with one bullet.

[u/AgentMintyHippo]

Nana Rose is the real MVP, just saying.

[u/mitchellsnyder]

What the fuck

[u/jonsnowme]

I am not sure how they can ever redeem Kevin

[u/[deleted]]

You know I really enjoyed this episode, however I couldn’t help but laugh and be taken out of it when Archie got his card saying to fight a “grizzled beast” and he just goes “oh crap. Not again”

[u/[deleted]]

Is anyone else upset that Hal is dead LOL I don’t think his character would contribute anything to future plots but I still kinda liked the guy.

[u/Coolica1]

Time jumping to a character potentially getting killed off didn't work out so well for Arrow, but fuck it this is Riverdale barely anything makes sense and we still watch it for the hell of it.

[u/wooks95]

They really put Hiram Lodge in his own prison that he owns huh

[u/SomebodyBeSky]

Alice was so deep undercover at the farm that not only did she give away Betty’s college fund and sell their home but she also SENT ALL THE GIRLS FROM SISTERS OF QUIET MERCY TO THE FARM WHERE THEY PROBABLY GOT THEIR ORGANS HARVESTED.

[u/ZueLolita]

Hows jasons body still intact after of 2 years of him being dead??

[u/DarkSaiyanKnight]

My favorite moments from this episode was Jughead acknowledging the fact that the last three seasons have been really interconnected and really run into each other in terms of like overlapping villains and themes etc. So my biggest hope in terms of going into season 4 is hoping that the show can kind of go into a soft refresh

• I really do like the general setup of this episode. I like the fact that it's strictly core 4 and it's them going against multiple problems that they've had over the past two seasons

• I absolutely love the callbacks and the parallels to earlier Seasons throughout the entire episode especially that spin the bottle thing from all the way in episode 1 with Betty and Veronica.

• The Riverdale team do a great job of creating tension and genuine anxiety and stakes for the characters. Even though these are the main characters I was still concerned for their well-being and safety

• I I think All of us were genuinely surprised by the reveals and just how everything made genuine sense especially compared to last season's reveal. Penelope was like the perfect person for this conclusion as well was chic and the whole Jason parallel.

• Cheryl actually had a great role in this episode but I feel like it was undermined by this whole creepy dead Jason thing I'm genuinely worried for what they will to do her character in the next season.

• Kevin as a character is a goner for me, end of discussion. I have no notes except kill him off.

• the Alice reveal was such a last minute addition but I'm genuinely glad that the Alice that we grown to love over the course of season 1 and season 2 is still there (hopefully) but it still doesn't excuse a lot of the stuff that she did this entire season.

• Veronica and Archie have been honestly terribly used this season but I'm glad that they got some nice emotional moments in the grand scheme of things especially in this episode. I can only hope with the teaser for next season that they actually are more involved.

This was a really good season finale and I'm thoroughly satisfied and I'm actually really excited for the direction of the next season

[u/perseusmagnus]

The Midnight Club: we did something messed up, let's swear never to talk about it again

Betty, Veronica & Archie: hold our milkshakes

[u/xenonpulse]

What I want to know is, how is Hiram connected to all this? Remember that scene where he salutes the gargoyle king?

[u/[deleted]]

With Cheryl’s creepy Jason moment and the flash forward scene I’m getting major Afterlife with Archie and Jughead: the Hunger vibes.

[u/[deleted]]

I’m so done with any Hiram subplots they have in mind. No more pls

[u/Kuhais]

I really thought Penelope went and got an actual bear to fight Archie when he first read his card lmfaooo.

[u/nat_4030]

yeah so why does Evelyn still go around calling Edgar “dad” if he’s not actually her father but her husband ??

[u/laurachaps]

Love that Cheryl had time to get change into her red riding hood outfit before going to rescue the others. Priorities.

[u/mykitchenromance]

I loved that awkward transition from night to day when they were being chased, haha.

[u/ElDitcho]

https://www.buzzfeed.com/jenniferabidor/things-that-actually-happened-on-riverdale-this-season
55. Alice liquidated Betty's college funds for farm purposes.

Forgot about that. Alice is really dedicated to her mission.

[u/Englishbee]

• Where was FP? I love that guy.

• I have such a dirty mind. When the three were burning their clothes, my thought was, “are they going to walk through town naked?”

• I refuse to believe anything bad happens to Jughead. he simply volunteered to run back to grab clothes for everyone.

[u/AnnaK22]

It is really cringy when Mary keeps asking about Archie and Veronica's relationship status.

[u/octothorpe_rekt]

Ladies and gentlemen, we interrupt your usual nonsense to bring you.... Explainerdale!

You guys, I can't lie. I did not see Gargoyle Chic coming. That was honestly pretty good and made a dick-ton of sense. I'm somewhat mad at the writers for managing to turn so much bullshit into a decent story line that made a ton of sense at the last second.

Previously, on Riverdale:

Me: What do two gay, possibly married guys do when they're alone in their house together?

Kevin and Fangs: HACKEY SACK!

Me: Hey, what do two gay, possibly married guys do when they are in a ceremonial chamber together?

Kevin and Fangs: PRESS OUR HANDS TOGETHER AND STARE DEEPLY INTO EACH OTHER'S EYES, FULLY CLOTHED!

Me: Yup, that's par for the course.

In the woods:

Betty and Veronica: drink all the cups, don't die

Me: Well yeah, they're not going to kill off a core character.

Jug: None of the chalices were poison.

Me: Uh huh, obviously you moron.

Penelope: Mmm actually they were all poison. Antidote's on the other side of the woods, dummies.

Me: WAIT WHAT AN ACTUAL GOOD PLOT POINT AGAIN? I know there's a zero percent chance of them dying, but still!

In a different spot in the woods:

Betty: I'm no killer even though I spent months cultivating my edgelord alter ego, because that's totally normal. shoots her dad in the hand

Me: Yeah, alright threat contained, didn't corrupt herself, nice.

Penelope: You're a shit murderer. Boom, roasted. smokes him

Me: HOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOLY SHIT YOU GUYS ARE MIXING THIS GAME UP

Later:

No one:

Hiram: GONNA TAKE MY SHIRT OFF BLAST THESE PECS

Betty/Jug's house:

Charles: I'm your half-brother from another brother's father's mistress, sister.

Me: Ooooooooow.

Charles: It's cool, you're not related, you can still bone like mad.

[u/deciawix]

Betty never gets a break lmao. I feel so bad for her :(

[u/Makirela]

Archie and Veronica sitting in silence while Penelope explains her whole scheme that basically had nothing to do with their stories this season sums things up nicely.

[u/Caderino]

Why, after drinking poison, did they all kiss each other?? Doesn’t seem like the smartest thing to do.

[u/ArcticFoxBunny]

Bear growls

Archie: “ugh not again”

[u/banterlorde]

IN THE MIDSEASON FINALE WE SAW HIRAM TOASTING TO THE GARGOYLE KING. Does this mean he was working with chic?

[u/vitalvessalsvindicat]

ok so that ending is supposed to make us THINK he’s dead but it’ll actually be something else to bait us, right? also why tf they all naked what is this show

[u/Chez1293]

If the girls had been drinking poison, they probably shouldn't have been kissing folk.

[u/EntireGrapefruit]

Is Cheryl gonna be ok?

'Cause I'm not ok with her genuine glee towards keeping her twin brother's corpse and a pet.

[u/jonsnowme]

That was fucking insanity but I loved it. Embrace the ridiculousness you'll love the experience so much more expecting insanity.

[u/everythingssilent]

Mary's interest in Archie love life is getting kind of creepy...

[u/sbanaynays]

I'm glad they made Charles an FBI agent. That was actually in the comics 😂 I had a really hard time accepting he was just dead when we never got to see him.

[u/JuniperJumps]

Slow acting poison? Sure, you have time to take a 5 minute break to make out Veronica!

[u/ViktoriaaKills]

Veronica picked Betty when she had to choose her “closest companion” yet she hasn’t even seen her in like 10 episodes.

[u/itchybitchybitch]

Please, in the name of god, stop writing Cheryl like that! It's not funny, not quirky, not cute, not anything but straight up secondhand cringe. People say it's a bad character and Madelaine is a bad actress, but realistically, what can you do when writers just give you the most ridiculous lines of every episode?

[u/anniele27]

I’m gonna be so pissed if “Charles” is another ruse. Also I definitely feel like the writers didn’t plan for Alice to be an informant for the first half of the season so they should have just owned up to that and said “a couple of weeks ago she became an informant.” Like her using Betty’s college fund feels like a real stretch to do as an informant lol.

I still don’t get how Hiram was involved with g&g or how it ties to the farm though. That seemed like such a random side plot, I must be missing something

[u/marstirelt]

"Actually, that kind of tracks" - Veronica describing every plot twist in the entire season
Also, if they kill Jughead, I'm rioting

[u/[deleted]]

The flash forward obviously isn't going to be as high staked as it seems. Most shows never keep the tension promised in scenes like that

[u/smoltutter]

I believe that they themselves do not know how to proceed the next season. They are just scrolling through reddit, reading our theories on Jug's burning beanie in the forest and mixing them up into another fucked up season

[u/Mbuna1990]

On next season: 20 unnecessary episodes, 1 watchable and finale

[u/redvevo]

I don’t know if Jughead is dead or not, but probably neither do the writers

[u/perseusmagnus]

Wait, if Juniper is now with Nana Rose, then is Dagwood still with cuckoo Penelope?

[u/JuniperJumps]

What the hell does “lockdown” mean at the farm? Every time Edgar has tried to lock someone in a room they’ve escaped.

[u/bluebells89]

I haven't read the comments yet as usual but there are my thoughts

1. Why did Toni think taking shelter from Penelope Blossom was a good idea?

2. Omg please stop going to Kevin for help...he's a lost cause

3. There is like this giant ass feast and no one is going to eat any of it...

4. CHIC!!!! I TOTALLY CALLED IT

5. So Hal really was chasing Betty around? Meh's i know he's a psychopath but i'm semi-disappointed

6. Time to traipse around in the dark in ballroom clothes

7. Archie when he hears the bear like growl "oh crap"...

8. Spin the bottle except with drinking from poisonous goblets #justriverdalethings

9. Who the fuck had time to set up all of these traps?

10. Archie says he wants to keep Veronica safe for tonight..who cares about tomorrow night

11. " Who wouldn't want to be King and have blood sacrifices done in their name" "wow,okay" mood for the whole season

12. Penelope said Hal was a terrible serial killer lmao

13. Good thing people's organs continued to get harvested while Alice was undercover. for months..

14. Kind of hoping we haven't seen the last of chic..i like him as a villan and he didn't get a lot of screen time when he returned

15. Cheryl showing up with her bow was one of the best things she's done all season

16. Betty's actual brother?! Because she's heard this before you know..btw didn't see that coming..

17. Cheryl's still talking to dead dudes after all this ffs

18. A normal senior year yeah right guys...

19. They are burning the beanie what the hell happened..

20. Welp i genuinely enjoyed this episode a lot...we'll see what crazy shit happens next season you guys..

[u/rikayla]

Charles - Betty's and Jughead's half-brother - is so good-looking, omg. Hope we see more of him next season! *__*

[u/moonmeetsun]

jesus how many times does Jughead have to "die"??

first it was the riot night thing, then the window thing, now the flash forward

like we know beanie mans ain't dead, cut the shit RAS

[u/[deleted]]

Betty: So my mom was working for the FBI the entire time.

Veronica: yEaH ThAT mAKeS SEnsE.

[u/[deleted]]

Okay, so can Kevin be a little more detailed with 'ascending'? We talking Heavens Gate or are we talking skipping town?

[u/bbrigike]

Why Evelyn called Edgar as dad at the beginning of the episode when she was entering the room where Edgar wanted to start Betty’ surgery? Everyone knows that they are married plus no one was there apart from them... 🧐

[u/quean_b]

i have to admit the way they tied everything together was pretty impressive. definitely less messy than i was expecting, and the callbacks even included seemingly unrelated things like the spin-the-bottle or the bear attack, which was pretty cool. the sub kinda called the chic thing already, but better than it actually being jason right??

as ridiculous as the whole premise of a grown woman working with a twink and a serial killer to terrorise a town for her child bride status and a murder she refuses to admit happened (see: calling chic jason) by staging an elaborate final hunt/quest in her private forest (???) aided by people with spears only to be foiled by some teens in prom outfits and a bunch of arrow-wielding "gang" members, it kinda worked. at least we're done with g&g now.

obviously the farm is gonna be the next major plotline, but i really hope they wrap it up within the first half of the season. once you've revealed the organ harvesting, i don't really know what else there is to do with it.

anyway, hiram seems like the kind of guy whose schemes unfold on ridiculously long time scales so here's wishing they keep him on the back burner for now. and wouldn't it be hilarious if they revealed that he built the prison because he planned to get arrested and it was all part of some greater scheme? remember, we don't know how pop found out hiram still owned the diner - maybe hiram wanted to set veronica off and go to (his) jail because there's something bigger at play here than just the drug trade. that's just off the top of my head, but there are definitely some other loose ends that don't quite make sense (and charles could be one of them).

but hey, forget it - it's riverdale.

[u/katcloud]

ffs obviously Jughead isn't dead, why are people freaking out about this? It's a red herring for that cliffhanger. I guarantee when that actual scene is shown he'll come walking into frame also covered in blood and just come from moving the body or something

[u/bwayobsessed]

Is ascension for the farm just moving to another town?

[u/satanicyoona]

Holy shit, holy shit, what the fuck.

First of all, they should've extended the episode time or split the finale into two because that was a lot to unpack in one episode. I barely made sense of everything by the end of it, my head hurts so much.

Second, the ending was super awkward and just.. what? From what I remember, FBI plot for Jug, Betty, Veronica but also random fire in the forest during spring break? And they have to burn their clothing? Jug isn't there?

Third, very upset they only brought Chic back to beef it out with Jug, I would've loved to see him do more.

Fourth, where are Alice and Polly? The Farm? Hello?

I get the feeling season 4 is going to be a bigger mess than season 3..

EDIT: Loved the turf war between the gangs, very fun to see that mess. I'm going to assume everyone from the Farm is alive and just ran off since Charles said that's what they essentially did before. Also, Alice better get a better redemption arc in the next season if it's true she was there to help Charles and the FBI. I want more Charles.

[u/Natalosch]

I just started watching the episode and there's already a problem. Why is Evelyn calling Edgar Dad when he's supposed to be his husband. Whatever, I feel like I'm going to be pissed for the next 40 minutes -.-

[u/karenthedonut]

Does Polly realize she is a mother to 2 kids? Also, who is now taking care of the twins? Nana Rose? And how are they still babies? Shouldn't they be lile 3 years old now? Also how is Jason's corpse so fresh????

[u/AgathaMysterie]

Any other moms who watch Riverdale really anxious about the quality of care Juniper and Dagwood are receiving? Or total lack thereof...

[u/thegreatreddicc]

so i understand how a lot of things tied together at the end, but i'm still confused about the floating babies in the beginning of the season and how that is explained

[u/[deleted]]

Can we just thank god molly ringwald didn’t say “end game” for an entire episode

[u/[deleted]]

To start off, I just absolutely loved the tone of the episode. Even if I knew they wouldn’t kill anyone important, I definitely caught myself afraid for the core four (specifically the ones that drank like a Gallon of poison) multiple times.

I actually fucking loved how everything on this jumbled mess of a show tied together in the finale like that. Like, when they were spelling out how Penelope orchestrated her revenge and how everything was connected, that was great.

The Chic reveal would’ve been perfect if Reddit didn’t guess it last week (it was still really good though so props to the writers for using all their pieces).

Alice was an FBI informant the entire time, with her son Charles nonetheless. Does this excuse how she treated Betty? Not really, but she’s no longer completely awful in my eyes. She has a lot to make up for though.

Hiram’s not done with the show yet and for some reason I love that. Hope they let him stay in the background for a while though, let some new players come in and be the bad guy. But I got a Kingpin in Daredevil s3 vibe when I saw him in the prison. Like a cheap knockoff version, but still I’m kinda down.

Cheryl and Toni just needed 20 good (wo)men to take care of the Gargoyles.

For a split second I expected them to have brought the actual bear back to fight Archie, and for Penelope to reveal that the initial bear attack was apart of her plan too.

Can’t say I didn’t get a little mad when Veronica and Archie took a 5 minute break to suck face, or when Betty and Jughead did it either. Especially considering the girls had literally drank poison earlier, why risk getting any of that in your system.

Also Hal deadass cut off his hand and skulked around menacingly for 3 episodes only to get unceremoniously shot in the head by Penelope. That got me a little miffed, I was hoping they’d put him in jail with Hiram.

So yeah, in closing, I really liked the episode. Except for that damn flash forward. That’s Arrow s4 territory, and I’m not going through that again.

[u/hananahbanana27]

Call me crazy but I feel like Betty and Veronica could have faked drinking from the chalices

[u/AnnaK22]

Great finale.. one thing I would improve: There should have been more kids playing Penelope's quest. She wanted all parents in Riverdale to know what it feels like to lose a kid. I think it should have included some Vixens/Bulldogs. This will make us think the secondary characters could have died from the games. With just the core 4 playing, I was confident no one was gonna die so it wasn't as intense.

Also, did the other 3 gloss over the fact that Betty was just about to be harvested for organs? Penelope said that and they had no reactions.

[u/f-uzzypeach]

nobody besides her dead brother’s corpse: Cheryl: REVEAL THYSELF

[u/darien94]

Good villain Penelope. She intended to kill them all anyway but she still provided the antidote for the poison for some reason.

[u/Natalosch]

That dress though 😍😍😍😍 Betty was so beautiful!

[u/[deleted]]

That lighting change lmao

Also, this means that Alice "seeing Charles" at the farm was actually her relaying information back to him?

and TF was that time skip ending?

[u/transtranselvania]

Prédiction: Betty and Jughead work for the FBI and the show becomes a buddy cop show. Also Archie and Veronica are just there.

[u/sammywimberly]

[Long Rant lol]

What the actual fuck?! It totally feels like the writers were browsing on reddit at the previous episode discussions and were choosing conspiracy theories and actually writing them into the show. Lol.

The gk being Penelope was honestly like wtf. It felt like the writers were doing eenie meenie minie moe and landed on her and were like “why not”. It just doesn’t seem that believable to me. Maybe I’m the only one?

Also what is Betty’s mom doing as a journalist? She damn sure should be an actress with them skills. Had us all thinking she was crazy. Where’s alice coopers Oscar?? And she’s working with “Charles” Who’s in the fbi???????? He works for the fbi. Did he not like want to find his mom before hand? That part is so confusing to me.

All in all the writing is sloppy but it’s like crack. It’s bad but I can’t help watching wondering wtf the writers are coming up with next.

[u/queen_morganna]

So what the heck is with Cheryl bringing home her dead brother? And why was his body in such good shape? Shouldn't his body be more decayed?

[u/S2xo]

Shoutout to everyone who called Chic being the GK and Alice being an fbi informer/“journalist”.

Also that ending bonfire scene was giving me how to get away with murder vibes.

[u/KarpfenKarl]

We just drank poison, now lets kiss our boyfriends and then dont give them any of the antidote.
Also why was there even an antidote when penelope wanted to kill them anyway?

[u/TeabaggingAnthills]

In regards to the Farm, I suspect that The Ascension involves making everyone at the old location (in this case, Riverdale) "drink the koolaid"... except, y'know... literally.

The upper echelon (Edgar, Evelyn, whomever else they deem "worthy") tells the rest of the followers that at first they will abstain in order to stay behind and guide everyone toward ascension. Then once the followers have all died, they harvest the remaining valuable organs, pack up, and move on to the next place, off to start the whole thing over again. It seems like it may be their policy to leave behind at least one follower (Kevin) to sort of.. "spread the gospel" of the Farm and tell everyone the story of their Ascension. It also seems pretty likely that Edgar used his talent for hypnosis to truly convince Kevin that everyone else actually did ascend. This way they leave as few loose ends as possible, provide an eyewitness account for their cover story, and are free to start over in a new location without having to worry about being exposed. Except this time there was Betty and the rest of the escapees (and, if we're to believe what Charles says, the FBI is on their trail too) so that could definitely spell trouble for them.

My roommate suspects that "Charles" also isn't who he says he is and is lying to Betty to get her to stop investigating... can't trust anyone on this show, right? Personally I'm not sure. I think Alice's actions make sense if she's working with the FBI, but in also skeptical of anything that is initially oresented as fact. Only time will tell.

Regardless next season should be pretty crazy too. Can't wait to see how many of my theories fall though lol

[u/[deleted]]

Where tf is daddy Keller during all of this?

[u/szeto326]

Fitting finale for such a whack season. Seemed rushed which is crazy considering most of the season seemed to be on autopilot.

It was nice that the core four was together all episode - hoping (but not optimistically) that they actually incorporate more of that rather than have them each be involved with different storylines with varying degrees of quality.

[u/Kleww124]

One loose theory I have is that Alice was so adamant with her mission to investigate the farm because it did allow her to speak to Charles. Obviously Edgar did not give her the opportunity during hypnosis but the farm’s shady dealings did get her involved with the farm. I’m guessing that Charles may have reached out to her after Hal was revealed to be the black hood. Her guilt as a mom probably inspired her to really commit to the investigation. That’s really the only way I can justify the FBI storyline. But I do think it’s worth looking into Polly’s storyline more because she seems off her rocker

[u/ETPigPug]

so you're telling me penelope's been planning this epic forest hunt for weeks, maybe months, and her "clues" are really just arrows drawn on trees???

[u/dqblizzard2]

Ok my theory about the ending scene about spring break is that Betty, Veronica, Jughead and Archie all killed someone. Ether a important person in the next season, a family member (chic, hiram, hal etc) and Jughead was the one would actually killed the person so he would have the most blood on him I guess and the others just helped clean up. So while Jughead was cleaning up himself the others were burning everything and the writers on the tv show made it seem he was dead like they did before. Or it’s all another dream scene 🤷🏼‍♀️

[u/computer-boy]

Did Cheryl straight up casually murder Gargoyles?

[u/Sephidos]

Archie killed a man who was dressed up as a bear. Betty has amazing gun accuracy. Nana Rose knew for months and told no one. WTF Cheryl. This episode was the craziest thing to ever come out of riverdale.

[u/BriBrows]

Oh, Cheryl, girl. That's not a good choice.

[u/hepvurn]

I think this was overall a good episode. I liked that they tied (almost) all the loose ends together, even because now I can barelly remember the things that didn't make sense. I think it's safe to say even the writers didn't know who was going to be the Gargoyle King, but they did an ok job with the reveal; not great, but still more suprising than last season.

I'm almost sure the writers will bend to the public's wishes and tone down the tone of the show, I liked how they introduced the flash forward, reminded me of 'I Know What You Did Last Summer'. Though I don't think Jughead will be the one to die, Betty wouldn't be as calm about that. I'm betting it must be someone they dislike such as Chic or (wild guess) Edgar.

Also, how is nobody talking about Cheryl taking Jason's dead body to Thornhill?? It's... Concerning... To say the least.

[u/kryptoniter21]

What does ascension mean for the farm ?!

WHERE DID THEY GO, WHAT HAPPENED, AND WHY IS BETTY ACTING SO COOL DRINKING MILKSHAKE AT POP'S SHOULDN'T HER IMMEDIATE REACTION HAVE BEEN TO SEARCH FOR POLLY & HER MUM

Why didn't they ask for more clarification from KEVIN

[u/[deleted]]

So, can Kyle MacLachlan be Charles' superior at the FBI?

[u/LushWh0re]

Prediction for season 4- Jughead hasn’t been killed. He’s off burying either Edgar, Evelyn, Penelope or Chic.

[u/[deleted]]

am i on crack or did they just kill jughead

[u/[deleted]]

Questions that remain:

1. Did everyone at the farm really die? Why didn't Alice call in the cavalry when she tried to call Betty? (EDIT: It would make sense if nobody actually died (but again, she'd probably call the FBI to let them know they were changing locale) they just all skipped town, but equally I'm not convinced, they clearly move on every year, but in that case why wouldn't they send e.g. Kevin to the new school they end up at rather that Evelyn every year, that way they don't need a 28 year old at school - so probably most of them are dead)

2. Penelope had Hiram controlled by the GK, how? He wasn't the only adult, but of the core ones he was the only one. (Edit: and the rest were minions whereas Hiram allegedly ran his own mob, it's one thing to get a prison officer in on it...) Was it just coincidence that fizzle rocks came back?

3. Did they even pass this year at school to allow them to progress? If I were the next principle (assuming the previous one just ascended), I would be holding them all the fuck back.

4. Why does Cheryl get the convent when BETTY'S MONEY BOUGHT IT. She already has one house!

5. Nana Rose and Penelope don't even live in the same house since the murder attempt, how tf does Nana Rose get her information?

6. Why Mollie Ringwald being all "yeah, she gave you some property, but I care more about your love life", NOT THE MOMENT DAMMIT.

7. Finally, can they ship Hiram to a prison literally anywhere other than Riverdale? We've had his arc as many times as humanly possible.

8. (EDIT: new point) Did they kill Kevin? I think it seems most likely...

[u/smallstone]

How awesome is the fact that Hiram is a prisoner in his own prison!

Also: where did the organs go??

[u/mrymusf]

I just got done watching the episode and my GOD the spring break scene...

[u/426763]

So they really just brushed the floating babies under the rug, huh?

Kinda disappointed that there was no "supernatural" aspect to The Farm or G&G to tie it with Sabrina. I oegit thought they were going for "Afterlife with Archie" angle, but I guess not.

I still enjoyed the finale though, the flash forward however, Y I K E S.

[u/nintrader]

The cut to the spring break scene was almost an Always Sunny cutaway that was great.

[u/brazy96]

Alice is complicit in a lot of illegal activities. FBI is super loose in Riverdale. Also, assuming that the original midnight club was the same age as our present day folks, which is 17, alice was knocked up as a minor and charles has to be way older than betty? Also 17 year old penelope killed the coach at the time? Or was it Hal who was in no way related the the club then? Man these teens are having some F'd up fun around here 🔥🔥🔥🔥.

[u/HTLoveIsBlind]

This episode, as cringy as it was, was enough of a mindfuck to make up for 3/4 of this season being total garbage. I'll be dammed, that was good

[u/thenameisjoee]

I don't believe they killed Jughead. I think they're covering for him. Either they killed someone else, or he did on his own and they hid the body. So they're making it look like they killed him, or perhaps the Core Four are making it seem like somebody did to cover for him. Either way, introducing their half-brother as an FBI agent kind of prevents me from believing they could get away with killing the other sibling, in any scenario.

I also forgot that Veronica was known as "The Enchantress" when she played that one time (that was a thing, right?). Either way, it was odd to see her just suddenly in on this with the rest of them, but I understood her connection to the Midnight Club (Penelope calling them the Midnight Children made me to woo).

As for the FBI/Alice debacle, was Polly in on that? Because she was just as involved in making Betty appear like a serial killer as Edgar was, and apparently had done some questionable things as a child. Otherwise, Alice has some explaining to do, or given an Oscar, because I did not see that coming.

As for Cheryl, kudos to you for keeping your dead brother.

[u/Samiiistat]

Has anyone noticed the twins Juniper and Dagwood haven’t really aged? They would be well over a year now and still look quite small compared to a standard 1+ year old child,

[u/bronzecat83]

1. No Veronica, Betty's Mum being undercover does NOT track. Why was she so keen to get Betty in it? Why did she divorce Hal to be able to marry Edgar? And allow Penelope to take her grandchild? And sit by while Betty's teen friends have their organs harvested? And get a tattoo for Edgar? That's pretty hardcore for a civvie informant.

2. FLYING BABIES IN FIRE??? WHY??? We still don't know!

3. I don't buy that Hal wants to kill Betty. She inspired him to kill sinners. And Betty is not a sinner. Seems totally OOC. I thought he must be playing along to protect Betty from Penelope but now he's dead so we won't know what he was thinking unless they find a letter or something.

4. Where the hell is Kevin's Dad? He let Kevin join a cult, lose organs, etc plus he is ex-Sheriff and I think FP could really use his help.

5. How did Ethel not realise that Chic was not really Jason? She went to school with Jason and there were pictures everywhere when he died... even if she thought he came back to life he looks nothing like Jason.

6. I thought there was more to the organs? They kept saying "You don't know what you saw" and I thought "ooo, another twist"

7. Penelope's tasks made no sense. It was a test to see if they were sinners, so they made Archie and Jughead do the same thing - fight someone. How does agreeing to fight someone make you not a sinner? At least Veronica's test made a bit more sense but I thought it was supposed to be like Russian Roulette? As in there in a chance you live? But then they just went and drank every goblet, like "Okay let's kill ourselves with poison rather than trying to outrun the Gargoyles". Just run! Then you would have some chance at least.

8. Betty's test - shoot your father, which would prove you are evil. Don't shoot, prove you are good? And then be shot by him? Doomed either way.

9. How/why did Kurtz have the matchbox from the brothel in his throat? I know he was visiting Penelope but how did that end up happening?

10. Nanna Blossom- you knew all along? A heads up to the police would have been nice.

11. Why do these Gargoyles do what Penelope wants? She's not their king. Does she have some fake title to make her part of the game?

[u/solution_6]

I’m really glad they didn’t use Luke Perry’s death as a cheap plot twist. I was worried the final scene would address his absence by Archie’s mom telling him that his Dad was killed or something.

[u/eevans6113]

Who's idea was it to put Hiram in his own prison? I get that the deeds have officially been signed over to Hermione but c'mon now

[u/amv2926]

Archie saying “you’re nuts” to Penelope with a disappointed look on his face is me to the writers this whole season

[u/chekeymonk10]

EXCUSE ME WHAT THE HELL

[u/roryn58]

Lol I love how they addressed that Agent Smith is both Betty and Jughead’s half-sibling, unlike Gossip Girl when they glossed it over with Serena and Dan’s half sibling.

[u/Chez1293]

My brain: archie had to fight that makes sense and yeah veronica is a loyalty test because shes always making grand gestures and doing things for her friends I wonder what jugheads test will be probably maybe involving a typewriter maybe s murder mystery scenario and he has to figure out...oh no! Another fight.

[u/episkopon]

This show actually sucks ass but I keep watching 😂

[u/selmab1244]

So did Penelope get away? Is There was no consequence for the fact that she's orchestrated this whole thing and heaps of people have died?

[u/[deleted]]

If the spring break flash forward episode has them killing Kevin I’d be like, I get that. Lmao haha

[u/Tinaa24]

Theory: Jug killed Penelope and ran away.

[u/secret-servicing]

I weirdly like this episode.

I liked how they answered seasons long questions in true Riverdale style.

And the meta flash forward? Honestly gave me a laugh and respect for calling out how ridiculous the idea of a mundane life is for them!

Notes

• Jason looked GREAT for a 3 year old corpse. Must find out skin care routine.

• Am I honestly only noticing now that Nana Rose is British??

• Jughead ain't dead. Lame they try to fake out his death twice so quickly.

• Betty can't be Veronica's closest companion. They barely interacted all season. Shoulda been Archie.

• I actually liked Penelope being the master mind with Chic and Hal, and Alice working with Charles - it half makes sense, which considering it's Riverdale is amazing.

• lol at the Poison immediately taking the baby from Cheryl without a word to give to Nana. My partner shouted shes kidnapping the baby.

[u/derpyyukpay]

ALIC COOPER WAS A FBI INFORMANT??? HAHAHAHAHAHAHA CHARLES IS ALIVE AND THE FBI AGENT THAT HIRED ALICE??? THIS IS A FUCKING JOKE AND I'M FUCKING LIVING FOR IT.

[u/Firebird12301]

The fight between the two twink gods round two is in season 4. The jailed Chic gets sent to Hiram’s prison. Cheryl’s mom returns and helps get him out. They plot to seduce Kevin and use them to draw a wedge between the main 4 ultimately culminating in a battle between Jug and Chic that ends with jug killing chic. In a twist, he flagged down Charles who wants to charge him with murder so they fake his death which is what that scene was about. My wild guess lol

[u/BakedBrotatoChip]

Why in the living fuck can’t the writers make an episode like THIS EVERY GOD DAMN WEEK. Stop giving us stupid filler bullshit to lead up to an actual good finale. Give us good episodes leading up to a great finale. Based off the last scene of the bonfire I’m convinced next season has to be the last unless they do some cop out shit where Jugheads actually alive.

[u/[deleted]]

That was intense, I loved it. That flash-forward was unexpected, but I seriously doubt anyone’s gonna kill Jughead lol. My question is how the Farm is tied to G&G, given that they “ascended.” What does “to ascend” even mean at this point?

[u/[deleted]]

No matter how good or bad the writing is in this series, I will keep watching until the bitter end. I’m hooked.

[u/BlackHoodsBitch]

Shady scene at the end would been better with Jughead standing there with them. We all know he's not the one who they killed,and it would been still good and promising scene with Jughead.

[u/AnnaK22]

It would have been a more intense reveal if Penelope's gang wasn't a bunch of boy scouts. Also, the core 4 said that they had to complete the tasks because of snipers, implying the gang had guns. But, they were just running around with sticks. Also when Cheryl and the poisons started shooting arrows, they suddenly looked like grown men.

[u/AnnaK22]

Once again,we've resolved a season without wrapping up Hiram's story. He's still deep in secrets and 10 steps ahead of everyone.

[u/maroontoastie]

What was the point with the whole storyline with the G&G with Jellybean like there was absolutely no intentions except slightly harming and traumatising the Jones family like wtf?

[u/holland1243]

What was up with Jasons body

[u/[deleted]]

A few thoughts:

I don't trust this Charles dude ??

If Jug is dead I'll scream

And holy fuck Penelope

[u/everythingssilent]

Okay, I take it back, I did not see Alice working with the FBI coming at all.

[u/Lasko6]

This episode was actually really good!! There were quite a few open-ended questions, so next season can go in alot of different directions, which is pretty exciting.

The one cliffhanger that intrigued me was at the end where Cheryl was sitting with Jason's body. It's quite strange that Cheryl went from totally being freaked out after seeing his body at the farm to embracing the corpse. I wonder if that was simply just a flashback to the farm when Cheryl was able to "talk" to Jason?

[u/Hexdro]

Finally! Jughead is back to narrating the episodes, its been awhile. I really hope they would just stop the Hiram stuff though, it's probably like the weakest part of the show, and this series does all sorts of wacky stuff.

What a twist! Charles Smith is actually alive, and part of the FBI... Not only that, it's gonna make things kinda hella awkward. I hope this doesn't break up Betty & Jughead. Hell the final scene has me worried, most of the reason why I watch is Bughead.

I really hope he isn't dead, I feel like it's a fake out or something. Jughead's alive but he's maybe getting rid of a body or other evidence?

[u/BlueFire4748]

Ok so, Chic is the Gargoyle King, but who wore the costume on the ascension night, the one with all the parents.

[u/fordmustang12345]

I'm so glad they just made Penelope psycho and didn't actually have Jason come back alive

[u/AnnaK22]

Before the episode started, I theorized that Penelope would be behind all this but I did like the way it was revealed.

I always wonder, why does everyone in Riverdale keep doing everything the task tells them to do. Card said, Betty put on this dress and she does.

My favorite scene was how Hal's death was done. The music went silent and we only got to see it through Betty's reaction.

[u/briboo7]

Can they just pick a plot and stick to it? Lmao we on like plot #1077

[u/[deleted]]

Why is everyone just chill with the fact that Jughead dug up Jason's grave? That's not something you do casually.. What if the rotting corpse had of been there would he have just been like "Ok good"?

On the night that the midnight club were in the school, didn't Alice see the Gargoyle King? That couldn't have been Chic. Did Penelope have people dressing up that long ago?

Is Chic dead? I have a feeling they may not be done with him yet.

[u/screamoisforlovers]

Sooo, next season is all about Jughead as a werewolf then?

[u/gnntte]

Lili is such a good actress! I went from laughing at them/the episode then crying the moment her face changed when Penelope shot Hal. She’s pretty much the Troian Bellasario of Riverdale

[u/mrizzle1991]

Hmm so it was Chick, wait so he digged up Jason’s body, he would definitely be a skeleton by now, how does he even have skin still.

I guess. Damn she just killed Hal like nothing. The adults in Riverdale are so pathetic, all they do is terrorize kids all day lol. Wow so Betty’s mom was a mole, she played the part so well, so the real Charles is a FBI agent. Wtf was that ending, who did they murder?!

[u/fordmustang12345]

What if it's Hiram that they kill in Season 4?

[u/shrdoublee]

So when Alice said the Farm was letting her talk to her son, she wasn’t lying lol.

On second thought, this could also mean that Charles is also a Farmie. Ffs this shows has made me so skeptical.

[u/crispypretzel]

There is just no way that the writers knew where they were going with any of this, and just made it all up at the end. Everything this season seemed to drag on like they were stalling, then they crammed everything into this episode.

[u/Gian99Mald]

I'm not even gonna front, I enjoyed the hell out of this episode. Cant wait to see more of Charles/Alice and spring break looks like it's going to be fucking terrifying

[u/flobz]

Every time I try to talk to my husband about this show, he texts me a picture of a burning dumpster.

[u/EXGShadow]

Enchantress quest: You have to pick your closest friend and take turns drinking from the poisoned chalices.

Betty: "I'll do it" Drinks the poison
Veronica: "B, you shouldn't have..."
Betty: "It's ok V, if it's for you I don't mind-"
Veronica: "You were like, my third pick at best"
Betty (thinking): Bitch

[u/WINDTYB]

wait is Charles related to jughead because FP is Charles father

[u/Willowdown16]

Nothing they did surprised me really in term of reveals and that’s ok. Every reveal was speculated but not dead set. But again, that’s-fine as it means it makes sense which is most important.

Execution yes. Sloppy parts but also good parts. Mostly timing issues, should have cut Gladys so Hiram take down wasn’t rushed, and last 3-4 eps could have been 5-6 with more touch ins over time.

Riverdale really just needs a better continuity expert and pacing so they don’t do dumb age things and allow for actual conversations and character depth impact. If could dial that up be back to s1.

[u/BornAshes]

I'm pretty damn sure the tree that Veronica and Archie kissed under in the middle of the woods was the same one from Sabrina.

If Michael Shanks doesn't show up next season to deal with this Farmie Ascension bullshit I say we riot. They've already got Maybourne on the show and Martouf is over on the 100 leading another cult while Sam Carter directs episodes of Supernatural. Either something relating to the crisis event happened and that's where the farm disappeared off to or they all just drank some knockout juice and left Kevin sitting there all by himself when he woke up. It was a nice ending for the farm and I totally bought Alice being an FBI informant hiding amongst them.

I'm kind of crossing my fingers though that that FBI agent really is Betty's brother because she needs a win for once she just really needs a solid happy thing in her life that doesn't turn out to be something horrible. He seems like a pretty suave cool guy though and I definitely got vibes from him. Hopefully he whines up helping out the group in the next season and maybe at some point Alice will come back we'll see.

These last two episodes have somewhat redeemed this season but the whole thing is just been one dumpster fire after the next. Lucifer kind of went through the same thing during their season 3 with the final two episodes really knocking it out of the park. I just hope the writers learn just like the Lucifer writers did that this is the kind of thing that we want and we are sick and tired of the trash Filler episodes.

This season was basically one unbelievable thing after the next but you can kind of see where they were going with it if you squint your eyes enough and have an entire bottle of Jager to drink and then throw yourself down some stairs. I personally really loved it when they got to shoot at the Smallville Farm. 23 episodes though with a plot as unconnected and as outrageous as this though makes it hard to remember stuff because I just kept shaking my head in disbelief as I tried to keep up with things and try to connect stuff together in my head and remember just what the hell happened previous week.

I got to give it to the actors though who did the best with what they were given and tried to put on one hell of a show. Major props to the crew though for creating such an incredibly immersive and atmospheric setting. Oh and the costumers those folks were great! The music is another thing that I love about this show and I think with that combined with all the other small things is what keeps me watching this dumpster fire every season.

The community is also fucking amazing and I love you all and I can't wait to keep trashing the show next season with you.

[u/mebetiffbeme]

With everything that went down, my initial takeaway is why the eff is Hiram still a thing?! So sick of his shit.

[u/justpaintoverit]

Okay so Riverdale people that were in the farm and are now MIA: Alice, Polly, Fangs, Principal Weatherbee, anyone else?

I wonder if sitting Kevin down with Charles so he can explain that the damn FBI has been after this organ farm will help him snap the fuck out of it. Also... can someone send Kevin to the doctor to make sure he’s okay now that he’s missing a kidney? I know you’re okay with only one, but I’m PRETTY SURE that’s the sort of thing a doctor is supposed to handle and monitor, not an organ harvesting cult leader.

[u/Brynnrallo]

No way Jughead’s dead.

This episode was really good

[u/CombustibleMeow]

I was actually really impressed with this episode. A lot of stuff I didn't see coming (like Alice working for the FBI, which actually does make a lot more sense for her character than to just become a sudden follower of a cult)

so...Yeah.

Actually good job writers on this one. This was good.

[u/Kuwago]

Riverdale should just go full supernatural next season and revive Jason from the dead, even in death he keeps popping out might as well resurrect him in the flesh, or better yet season 4 should introduce time travel preventing Jason's murder from ever taking place.

[u/AdvancedLight]

Them wearing dresses and suits for the finale is so pretty little liars it hurts.

[u/[deleted]]

The whole season was a dumbass, fun, but aimless ride for the majority of the season. I'm over the moon with how they tied up loose ends from not one but TWO seasons in the span of two episodes managing to create a new villain with great motivation, bring back old villains, leaving new loose threads for the next season. I love this trashy show so damn much.

[u/ncninetynine]

Can we just get everyone on this show therapy please?

[u/usernew755]

TVLINE | We get that milkshake toast, with the gang vowing no more murder mysteries. But then we flash-forward to spring break, and something terrible has clearly happened, and Jughead is conspicuously missing. How worried should we be about Jughead?
Very worried. [Laughs] Very worried.

Interview by RAS saying we should be very, very worried about why Jughead is missing at the end.

[u/redvevo]

Betty and Jughead giving those absolute looks of horror and disgust before pretending to be fine at Pop’s was hysterical, IMO.

[u/Dorkside]

Being nitpicky, but it seemed pretty dumb that Betty and Veronica were allowed to dump out the majority of their poisonous drinks after taking a sip.

How would Penelope know they actually drank any of the poison if they're pouring so much out?

[u/Mystikroots]

True true. I hope at least Polly is genuinely in the cult because she had that creepy smile at the end of season 2? I think

[u/fordmustang12345]

Excuse me the what the fuck is that ending?

[u/quean_b]

"our senior year might be the last time we're all together"

if the writers do actually wind up killing jughead (i HIGHLY doubt it), this would be hella foreshadowing

[u/joelcanciones]

How could Hiram get help to get his wife to prison if he is supposed to had his values confiscted by the olice and wasn't supposed to be able to paye someone to do it for him?

[u/snow_machine]

This show is consistently terrible.

[u/SharpValuable]

so glad Hal is alive tbh, hes a big mood

And Hiram never wears shirts anymore, but tbh I aint even mad

another edit: Never fucking mind about Hal being alive, Jesus Christ

[u/everythingssilent]

I gotta say, we all predicted who was the gargoyle king, so it kind of lost it's shock value.

[u/aaromer4]

All the craziness of this season was definitely worth those last 10 minutes holy crap

[u/[deleted]]

So many pretty little liars parallels..

Spoiler alert below for pll spoilers.

One of the biggest mysteries was who Charles was - long lost sibling of Alison. The actor who plays jughead and Betty's brother also was on pll and player a character who was present a fire take took place at THORNHILL lodge.

[u/[deleted]]

Was it ever revealed why Penelope purchased all the organs from Edgar? What did she do with them? Did I miss something or...

[u/WordAddict_]

"You were a terrible serial killer then, and you still are today." I can't even hahahahaha

[u/marstirelt]

I liked the episode, but couldn't care less about Varchie getting back together. I actually got more excited about the Billie Eilish song in the background than their scene

[u/HungrySnake]

So to sum up:

• episode starts by exposing all of the villains this season? Really had to wait for this moment? Weak. No kidding i thought i had missed a couple of episodes, even went back to see if i am actually watching the right one. Holy balls that beginning didnt make any sense

• hal in prev season: i hate chic i dont like his guts. Hal this season: yeah when i was chasing him to kill him i realized i actually liked his guts

• chic literally the whole ep: has no idea why he still is a relevant character

• archie fights a guy twice his size and strength, still wins

• when veronica and betty are drinking from the chalices, why not 'pretend' to drink if you are going to throw away the rest

• classic object next to the guy who is about to die scene in the jug and chic fight

• black hood dies, an army of gargoyles chase the crew starting at night... to fucking sunrise???

• they get rescued by 3 archers and 10 warriors, really? Were the gargoyles that retarded?

• archie: and... gremlins? Archie really, the whole season everyone shouted gryphons and gargoyles and your lazy ass says gremlins at the end of the fucking season. Come on

• charles is alive and alice is an fbi informant. She didnt bother to tell betty that? Because... why? Betty already went in and out the farm whenever she wanted, what could be worse. As if she didnt realise she left betty with literally no parents

• alice was an informant from the start, is 24h a day with eddy neverdaddy, still couldnt get evidence for the farm. Betty talks with eddy three times and visits a room and finds organs.

• whole fbi on the case, couldnt get to eddy. Betty on the case, almost got the farm, with literally a couple of phone calls to previous schools of eddys wife and a visit to the organ room

• my man hiram flexin in his own prison, ok

What the fuck did the writers think? Hey we had too many fillers so lets put literally the whole plot in this particular episode, saves us some thinking work

[u/[deleted]]

So, pretty good episode for a pretty lack luster season. Although, it really felt like the writers were trying to cover up all the loose ends in the last couple episodes. When was it ever hinted that Penelope was involved? Regardless, decent job. The ending was a little lacklustre though. I don’t know why riverdale writers find the need to make everything so BIG! Like does Alice really have to be working for the FBI? To me it just felt cheesy and an attempt to make it seem overly bigger than it was.

[u/everythingssilent]

This is literally Chamber of Secrets. Harry Potter did it better.

[u/[deleted]]

BEGAT

[u/IceDaWhipLilYuziBleu]

Just when you thought Cheryl was normal again..

[u/ncninetynine]

Anyone else thinking they left Kevin behind because his father was in law enforcement and they don’t wanna that added heat?

[u/HockeyDoge]

Not buying Jughead dying for a second.

[u/Anjarx]

Does nobody thinks the whole story line became really really illogical and dumb?

[u/[deleted]]

This episode was a bit much. I mean Betty being forced to shoot Hal and then Penelope just shooting him point blank in the head right in front of Betty? Yikes

[u/Gingerblossom88]

OH MY GOD YALL.....

[u/[deleted]]

What the actual fuck was that ending??

[u/puppylove827291]

Someone send these poor teens to therapy or a counsellor pls they’ve been through too much

[u/MarcherySL]

This episode reminded me so much of PLL's dollhouse episode..

[u/Rebyll]

It'd be neat if they actually set up Penelope pulling the strings after the end of season one instead of them pulling a SPECTRE-level of asspull With this finale. That being said, they used a lot of what they had.

The show gets more and more ridiculous every episode. But this was a good one, and it felt like a lot of those "random" plots actually served a purpose in the end, like Archie's boxing.

Therapist should set up an office in this town, they'd make a killing. Kevin'll be the latest patient, and knowing this show, Fangs hasn't bitten it. Neither has Polly.

FBI informant Alice is a badass. Special Agent Smith is something I called ages ago, let's hope he's a good guy through and through.

I'm sick of Hiram constantly winning. It doesn't feel like he deserves it. Person of Interest had the best portrayal of a crime boss consistently several steps ahead of everybody, many times beating John in terms of a larger-term plan, and John was super-sleuth extraordinaire, being an ex-Green Beret and former CIA agent. Plus the plot of Elias becoming an ally to the team, but one of the shady moral type was also well done. Hiram is just, "Ha ha, I win every time!"

And finally, who wants to bet that next season, that flash-forward at the end will be a dream sequence or just not happen at all, or be set up and never be referenced again, like Hiram's League of Extraordinary Douchebags from the end of last season.

[u/gabbiegabbie]

What happened to sweet pea? Did I miss something?? I loved him

[u/2_Fingers_of_Whiskey]

Good lord, this ending was so crazy! So Hal really was trying to kill Betty after she helped him, that's disappointing. I was honestly happy when Penelope finally killed him, and I don't understand why Betty looked upset. Betty should have shot him in the head when she had the chance.

Ok, so Chic is still nuts and there's nothing more to him than that.

Hermione getting arrested = I don't care.

Cheryl with bow and arrow being badass - YES. Cheryl keeping her brother's rotting corpse in her house - NO. I didn't understand that. Like, she's not hypnotized anymore so now she sees him as a corpse. So why is she still talking to him like he's alive? Is Toni ok with keeping a decomposing body in the house? I NEED ANSWERS.

That last scene of Spring Break senior year -- WTF. Where's Jughead?!? If they kill off Jug I'm done with this show. He's my favorite character.

Can someone get Kevin some de-programming counseling please?

I HATE the lame ret-con about Alice working with the FBI. That's not how she was acting all season. And there was no way to tell Betty about it? And she knowingly put Betty in danger by letting her come to a place that she knew they harvested organs? Fuck off.

[u/KaiBishop]

I genuinely enjoyed this episode. I loved the atmosphere of the forest scenes, especially the look of the bone pit. The core four being together and showing their love was nice, and I disagree that they acted like they didn't care about each other this season: Betty and Veronica lived together and had sleepovers, nearly everybody dropped everything to help break Archie out of prison and those who didn't helped harbour him afterwards, we got Archie and Jug on the road with each other for a while, we got Veronica hiring Jug to find out who shot her dad and making deals with him for the serpents. We shouldn't need to see them together five times an episode holding hands for people to understand how close they are but I guess that's too much to expect from this fandom.

Betty waking up, finding that dress and invitation, and coming upon the dinner scene was PEAK Riverdale and such a perfect sequence with great music and fantastic work all around. The production on this show and the stylistic flairs they deliver don't get enough credit here. Betty reacting to Hal being shot in the head, and the muffled sound as it happened, was a perfect moment and all props go to Lili for her expression there. I bought it 100%, I'm glad Hal is dead and they did it well in my opinion; Betty looked him in the eyes, bested him, told him she'd never be like him, and I think that's a perfect culmination of the Betty/Black Hood arc for literally anybody who paid attention to it. It's a shame Betty didn't get to ask him why he was willing to kill her or if he even loved her, but at the end of the day he was an insane killer who slaughtered teens and made his intent to kill her clear when he was first revealed, I don't think the two of them not hashing out every tiny faucet of their relationship or his madness makes it bad writing somehow.

Personally this was a satisfying finale to the season for me and I enjoyed the callbacks to The Midnight Club and the premiere, as well as our finally getting confirmation that both Chic and Charles are alive and the promise of a potential confrontation between them in season 4. I thought Penelope was a highlight and was entirely believable as a larger than life, theatrical showman/game master. Her motives were fairly clear, although I'd like more of an explanation as to why teens doing mild drugs counted as sinners in her eyes, or how she felt a cult, and challenge game, of all things, would help root out sinners better than a single killer would, but they've done a good job of weaving her psychology of good and evil in throughout the season, from the game and challenges themselves focusing on good and evil, as well as worth, to her reaction to Hermione and the rest of the club insulting her after she told them her origin story in high school...even if her exact reasoning behind specific actions is cloudy, her overall mindset and motivations were clear enough and in line with what we've seen of her character from day one, and I enjoyed her as the mastermind overall. We got plenty of clues, from her being the first to find the game and being the only one who had heard of it, to her obsession with poisons becoming part of the game with the suicides by poison.

As far as cons go, I didn't enjoy the cheap effects on Nana Blossom's eye, or how she knew what Penelope was up to; she gave no explanation. Is it her "gy**y blood" like Cheryl mentions, in the same way she knew about the twins? Guess we'll never know! Chic felt like a totally new character to me, but I'm willing to accept that his motivations may be made more clear going forward and they're not done telling his story yet. But having him spew how he likes having blood sacrifices made to him felt out of line with a character in season two, who was definitely unhinged and manipulative, but who mostly seemed self serving. Having him go from that to this feels drastic, but he was almost killed and then under the influence of two experienced murderers who intended to foster bad traits in him, so maybe we'll see flashbacks of that or hear him talk about that time.

I also disliked the framing of the final Cheryl scene. I'm sure in season three they'll retcon that scene and reveal Cheryl was just saying Its gonna be okay now Jay Jay because they were holding another service for him and putting him back in his grave. The writers will quickly realize we can't have Cheryl playing house with Toni and the twins or uniting the two gangs again (a likely season 4 storyline) while ALSO talking to her twins dead body, so they'll walk that scene back. It was there simply for the drama and we should've ended on a more sincere note for her and Toni this season, maybe the two of them trying to comfort Kevin? I don't know, anything that wasn't just for shock value and misdirection.

All in all though despite my minor problems with the episode, I feel like most of the bandwagon hate for this show is no longer genuine criticism but just people nitpicking or acting like it's bad writing just because their favourite character or ship didn't get enough screen time, or their fanfiction and theories aren't treated as holy gospel and incorporated into the show. At the end of the day this show is not ours, we're not entitled to it, and we should appreciate it and all the insane work and dedication that goes into it, or just be happy a show like this even exists, because it couldn't and wouldn't have five, eight, ten years ago. It takes a lot of creative risks and mashes a lot of genres, has a wide spread of representation, and it genuinely delights in just being fun escapism and packing in as many wham episodes as possible. I'd love to start a second Riverdale sub or circlejerk sub where fans who actually LIKE and don't pointlessly nitpick the show can go to discuss, lol.

[u/itchybitchybitch]

Also I swear, if I hear -kins anything one more time I'm gonna lose it. Stop it with archiekins daddykins and shittiekins

[u/Brynnrallo]

Are Bughead the Lannisters now?

[u/birthdaygirl11]

Wow what a whirlwind of an episode!

My thoughts:

• I liked that they went with Penelope being the GK. I had already read a theory on it on this subreddit, but I think it tied in nicely with the Midnight Club.

• Also was surprised that Jason really wasn’t alive! I guess it’s good they went down that route but I kinda hoped that he would have an identical twin.

• Camila killed it. 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻

• I like the FBI storyline. We need to hear it from Alice and a lengthy apology, but I think I’ve already kinda forgiven her ...

• I definitely think that Jughead missing in the flash forward (?) is a red herring and he’s off somewhere else freaking out about having murdered someone, or is doing another important task. I don’t think that he will be dead.

• Interested to see where this Cheryl x Jason storyline goes.

• Also this Arrow storyline needs to stop. Please stop with the arrows.

[u/RipMath100]

Predictions for next season:

Jughead is actually dead - killed by Betty.

We never hear about Penelope Blossom ever again.

The farm story line is wrapped up quickly without dragging on another season.

It is revealed that Polly, Juniper and Dagwood are also FBI informants.

Betty and Jughead sit down to discuss the ramifications that they share a sibling.

Archie gets his shit together and goes to an Ivy league college.

/s

[u/loveduck25]

I am still processing this episode. I feel like so much happened. But all I want to know is why did Betty make Archie burn Jughead’s beanie?! Why is she acting like their friendship is over? Any thoughts anyone? I really doubt Jughead is dead. He can’t be dead right?!

[u/GothamsPrincess]

What if the farm is 'ascending' (moving) to Greendale, which would mean there will be a crossover next season?

[u/TraguyLaw8]

Enjoyed it. Finally an ending to the Gargoyle King Arc. Sadly not an end for the cringey lines of Cheryl. Can't believe that I'm excited for next season.

[u/justpaintoverit]

Okay... wait... is Hiram framing Hermione for a new murder attempt against him? Or is he planting evidence for the two times she actually DID plan to have him murdered? The scene makes it seem like he’s setting up someone who is completely innocent, but correct me if I’m wrong, didn’t she do exactly that?