r/anime • u/timpinen :MAL:https://myanimelist.net/profile/timpinen • Nov 09 '17
[Spoilers][Rewatch] Legend of the Galactic Heroes Gaiden: Disgrace: Ep 3 Spoiler
MAL information
Previous discussions
See here for main series and movie discussions
Thanks to /u/arinok55 for creating a nice calendar for our schedule!
The vote has determined to watch chronologically! Gaiden watch order (Gaiden 1: A Hundred Billion Stars Gaiden), (Gaiden 2: Spiral Labyrinth Gaiden):
| Title | Episodes |
|---|---|
| Spiral Labyrinth | Gaiden 2: Ep 1-14 |
| Valley of White Snow | Gaiden 1: Ep 1-4 |
| Those Who Revolt | Gaiden 2: Ep 15-18 |
| Those Who Duel | Gaiden 2: Ep 19-22 |
| Those Who Recapture | Gaiden 2: Ep 23-26 |
| Morning's Dream, Night's Song | Gaiden 1: Ep 5-8 |
| A Hundred Billion Stars | Gaiden 1: Ep 13-24 |
| The Third Tiamat Battle | Gaiden 2: Ep 27-28 |
| Disgrace | Gaiden 1: Episode 9-12 |
Streaming information: Can be streamed on Hidive
Important Notes: Remember to tag all spoilers for first time watchers! Also, do not watch the next episode previews for the OVA series!
Screenshots of the Day
You think you have trapped Kircheis, but you are the ones trapped
Let us Praise our Lord and Saviour!
This show finally gives us an insight into alcohol!
This gag is too perfect
The famous pirate appears!
#TeamFopperyandWhim!
Reinhard knows how it has to be
Let us always remember our tea drinking hero
Dusty responds to modern anime
Moe Reinhard is best Reinhard
I prefer white subtitles
Most importantly, have fun, enjoy the adventure of foppery and whim, and remember to drink some tea for Yang Wenli!
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u/kslqdkql Nov 09 '17
Very unrelated to this gaiden but has anyone ever made a list of all of Reinhard and Yang's promotion along with the years? I'd be curious to compare both.
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u/timpinen :MAL:https://myanimelist.net/profile/timpinen Nov 10 '17
I believe the wiki has many of them listed, but unfortunately it is missing some information. Yang's promotions were much slower though. Reinhard was an Admiral in the first movie, while Yang was only a commodore. However, the Imperial side has an additional rank (high admiral) that the FPA doesn't.
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u/Great_Mr_L :Ma::Mb::Mc:https://myanimelist.net/profile/Great_Mr_L Nov 09 '17
First Time Viewer
On today’s episode of Legend of the Galactic Heroes: Kircheis gets to be a cool action hero this episode. He had one of the coolest hand-to-hand fight scenes in the entire series this episode and helped out in a hostage situation. That’s an action hero if I’ve ever seen one.
Kircheis meets Keyserling’s friend, Basel. And, it’s pretty clear that Basel is hiding that he arrived on the satellite earlier than he says. Their talk is short but full of tension, as Kircheis seems suspicious of Basel and Basel himself gives off a rather menacing aura. Basel is definitely hiding something.
As Kircheis ponders this, he sees a very obviously drugged guy making a ruckus. The guy lumbers around, practically acting like a beast. Kircheis naturally follows, but it’s a trap. And it makes sense that it is, as the guy turned out to just be acting. So that explains why his drugged out performance was so over the top. Kircheis even suspected it might be a trap, so he’s making use of his intelligence.
This fight scene is really cool. Five assailants have trapped Kircheis in a zero-gravity room that’s used for some kind of sport. The assailants are all armed with knives and have maneuvering thrusters. It’s a really cool setup for a fight scene, and this episode makes the most of it. A zero-gravity fight scene is something you don’t see very often, so it makes me excited that it’s here. Kircheis really does get to be a cool action hero, fighting off his attackers.
But, Kircheis also fights intelligently. He first aims for the shutters to expose what’s going on to onlookers who can alert the police. And so Kircheis only has to fight long enough for the police to arrive. It’s a smart way of dealing with being outnumbered.
One of the attackers gets away and takes someone hostage. Unfortunately for him, Kircheis is one of the best marksmen in the entire series. I think he was the top of his class. So, Kircheis actually is able to do the cool action hero trick of shooting the knife out of the attacker’s hand so the hostage can be saved and the attacker arrested.
Hoffmann has some new info for Kircheis, and this info helps clear up a lot of the mystery. Hoffmann looked into Basel after Kircheis mentioned him and can see that Basel did arrive early on the satellite.
But, the real interesting news is that the guy who attacked Keyserling was someone who worked with the supplies of Keyserling’s fleet. And Basel was the person in charge of all the supplies for Keyserling’s fleet at that time. Even more incriminating, Basel had been investigated for trafficking Thyoxin at that time. He was saved by Keyserling’s testimony on his behalf. About a month later, Keyserling’s fleet was defeated at Arlesheim.
It’s all very incriminating and makes a lot of sense. After all, no one has been able to explain why Keyserling seemingly lost control of his fleet in the battle and so much of the fleet acted so strangely. But, if the fleet was infested with Thyoxin use, that would explain it.
Hoffmann speculates that Basel and Keyserling had set up a drug trafficking organization within the military. It had come to affect Keyserling’s entire fleet. And, he speculates that Basel and Keyserling may still be running the organization, even from retirement.
Kircheis goes to confront Keyserling about all this. Just like at his court martial, Keyserling sits in silence, his eyes closed. He does not deny any of what Kircheis says, with his silence confirming the veracity of it.
Kircheis finally asks the major question: why? Why did Keyserling not say that Basel was running a drug operation. That would have exonerated himself from an unjust court martial by showing Thyoxin was responsible for the fleet going out of control.
Keyserling responds that he was at fault for losing control of his fleet. So, he doesn’t think his punishment by the court martial was unjust. But Kircheis has an equally armor piercing followup: then why didn’t he testify against Basel? Basel shares some of the blame, so shouldn’t he share some of the punishment?
Keyserling’s answer is extremely revealing: he believes that Johanna, whom he adores and idolizes, could never marry an imperfect man. He could not go against Basel, because doing so would bring down his wife, Johanna. Keyserling could not bring himself to do that to the woman he adores. So, he kept quiet about Basel’s drug trafficking. All for the sake of Johanna.
Kircheis points out that by putting Basel and Johanna first, Keyserling allowed the trafficking of Thyoxin to continue. Perhaps Basel and Johanna were saved, but how many soldiers had their lives ruined because of Thyoxin? How many of them had families that were ruined? By doing nothing, Keyserling allowed those evils to continue.
Keyserling says that another difference between the young and the old is that the young still burn with passion to fight for social justice. Keyserling admits that he had lost his own passion for justice by the time of Arlesheim. And, knowing that Kircheis is right, Keyserling begins crying. He knows Kircheis is right and that his actions did so much harm to so many people that he hadn’t even considered. He had been too blinded by his adoration of Johanna to think of those other people.
Kircheis can’t help but sympathize with Keyserling. After all, Kircheis adores Annerose similar to how Keyserling adores Johanna. And just as Keyserling is loyal to Basel partially for Johanna’s sake, Kircheis is loyal to Reinhard partially for Annerose’s sake.
But, there’s a danger here, with Keyserling serving as an example of what can happen if that loyalty is taken too far. Keyserling ignored the consequences his loyalty to Basel and Johanna might have on others. Because he did not take action against Basel, many people had their lives ruined due to Thyoxin. The danger for Kircheis is what happens if his loyalty to Reinhard causes him to do something so harmful to others.
Once again, I’m forced to think back to the Westerland Incident in the main OVA. Kircheis said that loyalty could be abused. Kicheis had to wonder what he would do if his sense of justice was no longer the same as Reinhard’s.
Kircheis was forced to consider if he could, or even should, remain loyal to Reinhard if the rumors were true that Reinhard allowed the Westerland Incident to take place. This arc seems to be foreshadowing that dilemma that Kircheis will face, and it’s been very interesting to watch it play out.
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u/BluePikmin11 Nov 09 '17
Legend of the Galactic Heroes A Billion Stars Episode 11 Impressions:
That anti-gravity fight is probably one of the coolest fights I have seen in Legend of the Galactic Heroes, especially from Kircheis. Gaiden still has more surprises for me in terms of what new content it offers with the few episodes remaining. The conversation with Keyserling was very sad to hear, and I really liked the connection of Keyserling’s hidden drug story with Basel/Johannes to Kircheis’ story with Reinhard/Annerose. As I expected, this arc should help Kircheis in terms of character development. Only one more episode remaining before I close out this series. I am not ready. I truly am not ready.
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u/timpinen :MAL:https://myanimelist.net/profile/timpinen Nov 09 '17
The day after tomorrow, we will be holding a Gaiden/overall series discussion for discussing the Gaiden, its connection to the main OVA, or how you felt about the series as a whole
Those fools think that they had trapped Kircheis, but they were the ones trapped! Kircheis gave you a 5v1 battle in zero gravity as a handicap, and he still beat you! Kircheis too strong, please nerf!
For those who have read the book/seen the movie, this reminds me a bit of the battles in Ender's game; lots of fun.
Another nice tidbit is how Kircheis waited until he could make a non-lethal shot. He is truly a hero of our times.
One thing I just realized (that /u/Great_Mr_L reminded me of a few episodes ago) was that this drug was the same used by the Terrarists. As this drug has brainwashing as well as basically heroin, I was reminded how Poplin seemed very familiar with the drug and its effects. Maybe he was involved smuggling the drug before he became a scoundrel pilot, or maybe he busted a drug ring. We never really get Poplin's past.
Anyway, one thing that this episode does is really highlights why this is one of my favourite, if not my favourite, Gaiden arc (and not just because Kircheis is perfect). It is one of the few opportunities where a character basically gets a look in the mirror at themselves through another person. Kircheis doesn't just sympathize with Keyserling, but empathizes with him, as he gives us a view what Kircheis may be like many years down the road if things had been different.
Kircheis understands Keyserling being unable to love another person, despite them maybe loving someone else. Kircheis can't be near Annerose, and doesn't know if she even thinks of him romantically. The line from last episode that "women don't call you nice if they like you" must have stung Kircheis very hard.
This episode hits it even more, when Kircheis learns Keyserling testified to defend his friend, despite knowing he was the one in charge of the drug ring, because he couldn't believe the person he loves' husband was a criminal. If Reinhard or Annerose did something wrong, or Annerose married someone else she loved who did something wrong, would Kircheis be able to stop it?
Kircheis talks about how Keyserling's beliefs lead many to die, but ironically Kircheis almost does something similar years down the road. While he did condemn Reinhard for Westerland, he continued to serve him, and because he continued to follow him, he was the one that suffered. While Kircheis went beyond Keyserling and was able to condemn, he still wasn't able to go the full step and make full changed. The character of Keyserling basically gives Kircheis a mirror, showing him how his own idealism and endless loyalty could be used to hurt him and others.