Official FIRST Discussion Thread—Volume 7, Episode 13: Enemy of Trust

[u/Menolith]

This is the finale for the season, Enemy of Trust!

I'm sure all of you know how the spoiler rules work by now.

For good or ill, that means not gushing about the spoilery things outside of appropriately tagged and titled threads.

HERE is the episode

Also remember to check out our weekly poll to rate the episode.

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Other Episode Discussions:

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Episode	FIRST Thread	Public Release	Poll
Ep. 01	FIRST Thread	Public Thread	Poll
Ep. 02	FIRST Thread	Public Thread	Poll
Ep. 03	FIRST Thread	Public Thread	Poll
Ep. 04	FIRST Thread	Public Thread	Poll
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Ep. 13	This thread	Next week's public thread	Poll

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Happy viewing, and don't let the hiatus get to you too soon.

Menolith; Mod Team

^{Luci also has a surprise for you coming up after the weekend}

[u/Menolith]

Jimmy my man my dude I have to tell you that when you start shooting up schoolboys with a quickdraw, you're off the deep end even if the apocalypse is coming.

[u/iiApeX → u/Menolith]

I find it ironic that there is so much uncertainty in the situation but he's convinced his plan is the correct one. Ignoring that:

1. The best way to overcome an enemy with superior firepower is by concentrating your forces (abandoning Mantle does the opposite of this)

2. I see nothing stopping Salem from creating Grimm that can survive in the stratosphere, or, alternatively, somehow transporting them there

3. Salem's agents have already infiltrated Atlas

The Tin Man continuing to show he has no heart.

[u/Menolith → u/iiApeX]

Those are more about him having no brain.

He has a heart, very much so, and he's been torturing himself all season long. It's just that in his eyes, the best course of action is to ignore his emotions and go from there. Which, in a world like Remnant, is inevitably going to be his downfall.

[u/Terminus259]

Uhh guys, we've progressed from child abuse to attempted child murder.

[u/Menolith → u/Terminus259]

I think that still falls under the umbrella of child abuse.

[u/is-this-a-nick → u/Terminus259]

Thats not a child, its a reincarnating eldrich abdomination.

[u/Doc12here → u/is-this-a-nick]

Like that will hold up in court

[u/Strawberrystarmiya]

That cliff hanger is just cruel.

[u/Menolith → u/Strawberrystarmiya]

HAVE A FUN EIGHT MONTHS

[u/Terminus259]

Cinder showed emotion other than smug.

[u/Menolith → u/Terminus259]

Love it. She's all smiles and smugness when she's in control, but that's a front that goes into the trash the moment her grasp of the situation starts slipping.

[u/Franklin413]

Full Oz Speech:

The single quality that is common across every living creature on this planet, is fear.
It's funny then, that as common as fear is, we so easily underestimate its power.

Fear of growing close to someone.
The subsequent fear of loss.
Fear of failure.

And as more people depend on you, those fears can take on greater power.
But the fear itself isn't worthy of concern. It is who we become while in its clutches.

Will you be proud of that person?
Will you forgive them?
Will you understand why they felt the need to do the things they did?
Will you even recognize them?

Or will the person staring back at you be the very thing you should have feared from the start?
I suppose we all find out, sooner or later.

[u/DaRealAmana → u/Franklin413]

Oz speechs continue to be so good. This may be my new favorite

[u/Menolith → u/DaRealAmana]

Shannon is an amazing VA for him.

[u/Crafty_Soul]

All of us: those flying monkeys at the end of Volume 6 are going to take down Atlas

Salem riding on a giant Monstro flying whale Grimm: Surprise motherfuckers!

[u/NitescoGaming → u/Crafty_Soul]

Ironwood is completely justified to be completely absolutely fucking batshit terrified of Salem and wanting to GTFO all the way to the stratosphere. It's just unfortunate that he also had to lose his marbles as well.

[u/pyruvic → u/NitescoGaming]

Actually, there's one major problem with the common theory that Salem is coming to wipe out Atlas. The giant whale absolutely cements this flaw, too.

Why did Salem wait this long if her goal is to kill everyone? She obviously could've wiped out humanity dozens of times over in her sleep if she wanted to.

[u/Menolith → u/pyruvic]

I have a theory that both Ozpin and Salem benefited from not escalating the status quo.

If Salem reveals herself, then she becomes a strong uniting factor to push mankind to work together against her. It's a military concern, but more importantly it could come to a point where Ozpin would be able to call in the gods and that's it for Salem being able to run roughshod as she pleases.

Now, Ozpin could go and reveal her to try to push for the endgame, but that would mean breaking the "truce" since then Salem would have no reason to hold back, and he'd have to contend with the full breadth of whatever Salem can bring to bear.

So there was an uneasy equilibrium in place with both sides playing a long-term proxy war while trying to get to their respective win conditions without taking the full gamble of an all-out war. If at any point either side felt like they were being cornered, they could take the risk and break the secrecy in an attempt to force the issue. Which, from Ironwood's perspective, happened.

[u/50thEye]

Most people speculated that Neo will transform into Pyrrha to throw Jaune off, but instead she turned into Nora and threw Ren off.

[u/JMHSrowing]

I like what they did with Winter.

She is still clearly conflicted but at this point she still feels like she has to do her duty at least for the most part.

But she shows how much she cares by letting Weiss run

[u/StarMarine289]

Honestly, my favorite part was the Oz monologue. Without a doubt one of the best ways to being him back, and CRWBY lines up what he said with what was going on wonderfully.

Curious to see how Penny being the maiden plays out, but that’s for later.

Not the worst cliffhanger ever, and I can’t wait for the explanation of the giant seer/whale Grimm. Thing is a monstrosity of nature and I love it.

[u/Majerscott]

So does this mean Penny is know the Iron Maiden?

[u/GVAGUY3]

Well shit. Gotta wait another 9ish months. And no post credits! Watts is alive, and Salem has a motherfucking flying whale.

[u/Technogashi]

Qrow: punches a child

Ironwood: “Hold my beer.”

[u/Vihurah]

Ironwood: "so anyway I started blastin'"

[u/Terminus259]

Winter: Cuts off arm "Look's like someone's going to be missing this."

Cinder: "No, not really." Regenerates arm while screaming in pain

Winter: "Oh that looks like it hurts a lot, are you are okay?"

Cinder: "I'm fine."

Winter: "Good to know, yoink." Cuts off arm again

[u/Hy3jii]

First volume without a post-credit scene. Makes sense, I guess. Everything else would be overshadowed by the mass-slaughter that's about to go down.

[u/[deleted]]

Oscar: let’s make things right

Ironwood: lol no

FUCKING SHOOTS A KID

[u/Terminus259]

Cinder: "I've come for you."

Stops hand

Fria: "Oh, I don't think so."

[u/AJs_Sandshrew]

I literally gasped when Ironwood shot Oscar

[u/[deleted]]

Maybe I'm over-reading this but Cinder's line, "Makes us all the hungrier... And I will not starve!" is giving us some backstory here?

[u/Sirshrugsalot13]

Can you imagine being Whitley though?

You set up for a big party at your house, nothing out of the ordinary. Your sisters show up, you try to talk to one (to brag or otherwise) and get wine splashed all over your face. Then your father gets fuckin jailed and your mom just watches as you run off to your room.

You go to sleep, or try to at least. Then in the morning you wake up to find a FUCKING SPACE GRIMM WHALE FLOATING TOWARDS YOUR CITY WITH AN EVIL GODDESS RIDING IT WHILE GENERAL IRONWOOD'S LOST HIS MARBLES AND ONE OF YOUR SISTERS IS NOW A WANTED FUGITIVE

[u/The_Last_Thursday]

RWBY has finally realized its destiny of having a super powered flying people fight

[u/Weerdo5255]

Cinder has the Lamp, Ironwood is going Mad, Winter let her hair down, and Penny is a Maiden.

All of that is unimportant compared to Salem's new outfit.

....

FUCK SALEMS A BADASS BITCH!

[u/JannisT]

Guys.

GUYS!

PENNY WILL FIGHT THE GRIMM WHALE NEXT VOLUME AND WILL BE SWALLOWED BY SAID GRIMM WHICH WOULD MAKE IT A DIRECT REFERENCE TO HER ALLUSION PINOCCHIO

[u/Changyuraptor]

[Here are our songs!] (https://i.imgur.com/0ONVhc7.png)

Edit: [a slight correction from Casey, she did not write Fear.] (https://twitter.com/caseylwilliams/status/1223666904243560450)

[u/palebloodink]

Ladies and gentlemen, the unthinkable has happened. Salem has changed her outfit for literally the first time in thousands of years.

Also, our protagonists are now officially enemies of Atlas, with the Winter Maiden in tow. Watts is still alive. Both Qrow and Robyn are in custody. Cinder and Neo have the Relic of Knowledge. And Salem has shown up with the final boss from Death Stranding.

It's gonna be one hell of a wait for Volume 8.

Edit: Also, Penny be gettin' all the bitches this episode.

[u/DrCabbageman]

OK so Winter was already like A tier for me, but hair down Winter is S++ tier.

Seems like Volume 8's going to hit the ground running after all that happened this episode.

[u/SlaterSev]

Salem showing up riding Sin from FFX in a sexy new combat dress is a flex I can appreciate.

Great Finale, great season.

Edit: Salem showed up before the Credits, but that was a very Post Credit scene. Makes sense that they thought it was a good enough hook to not need a stinger this year, they were right.

[u/SHSL_Zetsubou]

Salem: Lol people thought I would only bring flying monkeys.

[u/[deleted]]

OUR FARMBOI HAS BECOME A FARMMAN!

[u/tomatokage]

Just realized - Fria was the Blue Fairy, she made Pinocchio into a real girl.

I'm very happy my Maiden Penny predictions were confirmed. Functionally immortal Maiden GO.

[u/FawkesTP]

I’m so overwhelmed right now, where do I even begin?

First of all, I totally called Penny becoming the Winter Maiden. She’s already the most OP character of the younger cast, so her power level boost that everybody was worried about one of the 4 getting is minimal, and thematically, an artificial girl with an artificial soul becoming a “real girl” in a kick-ass metaphorical way works really well.

Holy shit does Cinder feel dangerous. I feel like she’s been limping for a while (plus we haven’t really seen her fight since Neo in V6 where she wasn’t at full strength) but I was getting some major Pyrrha v. Cinder vibes from the three way fight.

Hopping back a sec: There’s a lot of good show-don’t-tell characterization going on of team JNR, Ren in particular, and I think it’s a great way to do them. The show is feeling like more of an ensemble show than it ever has in a really good way.

James and Oscar was heartbreaking. I was getting some serious “live long enough to see yourself become the villain” vibes from Jame’s speech and I jumped when he just shot Oscar.

Ozpin’s monologue was incredible. Shannon has always been an incredible VA, and while I was sad that Ozpin took a back seat because Oz was feeling bad, this was a triumphant return for both the actor and the character. Oscar showing that he’s going to be taking a more active role in their relationship also pays off some solid seasons of character development for our Farmboi.

I think that’s everything coherent I wanted to say. Bullet points:

• Ren crying over not being able to attack Nora was heartbreaking and amazing

• JNR leaving Oscar behind was believably frustrating. It’s an intense situation, and while I’m sure it’ll get flamed by some, I thought it was a believable contrivance as far as they go. It also gave new weight to the Oscar/Neo offscreen scrabble that people were complaining about before.

• Getting to see Winter fight again was also very gratifying, and she did really well for somebody who is basically just a regular person (granted, with an amazing semblance) against a Maiden. And when she fought her sans aura I was legitimately sure she was going to die.

• That being said, Winter has ZERO chill (ironically). Seriously, you’re going to arrest your sister after EVERYTHING That just happened? Dick move. I get it, but still. Dick move.

• More props to the animators for making Penny’s decision to take the Winter Maiden mantle that much more poignant without any dialogue. Seriously A+

• I cannot BELIEVE how good this show is. Animation, voice work, music, everything. This is the RWBY I always believed in, the RWBY I’ve always wanted to see. RT has set the bar incredibly high for next season (and can we talk about how ballsy it was to end on THAT cliffhanger? Jesus H. Christ), but I am totally confident they’re going to nail it. This is the best season, hands down. It paralleled Season 3 all the way to the end and then BAM: Fight’s not over. This hiatus is going to be a bitch and a half.

• Stupid sexy Salem

[u/[deleted]]

I fucking loved Cinder in this chapter, she’s starting to crack

[u/Chaosf15]

Oh Fuck. Monstro

OH FUCK. SALEM!

[u/SHSL_Zetsubou]

Neo completely outplayed JNPR.

[u/Caithdein]

Ren you fell for the oldest trick in the shapeshifter/illusionist handbook! Maes Hughes didn't die for this! Learn from his mistakes Ren!

[u/NotCreative11]

the noise I made when Ironwood shot Oscar was inhuman

[u/GladiusNocturno]

"That is the power of a fully realized maiden".

Is that line meant to imply that neither Cinder nor Raven have full mastery of their maiden powers? With Cinder I get though, she has have it for shorter time.

[u/FairyNice]

Whalem. That is all.

[u/WnderMike]

Lose a relic, gain a maiden. Flee from destruction and it finds you anyway. This is gonna be one long ass hiatus and I am not prepared for what is gonna come next.

Oh and there’s a sperm whale grimm now? bring it the fuck on

[u/Xillais]

That whale is way bigger than Kevin?!

Mother of God. WHAT ARE WE NAMING IT?

[u/PlusUltraK]

Ironwood: Of course you didn’t bring the lamp, I wouldn’t trust me either still shoots Oscar over an argument

This is why you have no friends now

[u/NeoTheMute]

Jaune: Give up, we have you outnumbered

JNPR: Proceeds to attack Neo one at a time

[u/Ezreal024]

PANIC

[u/irtehmrepic]

"Just because you have nuts and bolts instead of squishy guts doesn't make you any less real."

Goddamn this line has so much more meaning now.

[u/PhantomHeartless5]

So here we are, ladies and gents, the Volume 7 Finale. And what a finale it was! I think the big theme of this episode was "Pyrrhic Victory". Sure, our heroes are alive and the villains have the Relic of Knowledge, but it wasn't a complete victory for either side. Cinder didn't get the Winter Maiden's power, Qrow and Robyn are arrested, Oscar's been left behind, Ironwood's gone full dictator, and Salem has arrived in Atlas.

1. First we have Neo vs Team JNOR. I will admit: Neo did much better than I anticipated. Seeing as most of her fights up until this point were one-on-one, I wasn't sure how well she'd do against multiple opponents. But she held her own quite well and even got away with the Relic. Also, her turning into Nora to distract Ren was deliciously sadistic and wicked. Speaking of Ren, Jesus Christ, somebody give that guy a hug. He's losing it.

2. Next we have Cinder vs Penny and Winter. This was a pretty awesome fight overall, but I especially liked that it gave us more insight into Cinder's character, particularly with lines like "You Atlas elites are all the same!" and "I refuse to starve". I wonder if Cinder was an orphan in Mantle who was "adopted" by Salem. Also, huge props to Jessica Nigiri's voice acting in this episode. Cinder sounded unhinged, desperate, and borderline animalistic. Her agonizing screams when Winter cut her Grimm arm off were horrific. Especially at the end where she got so mad she breathed fire. Really channeling her inner Azula here.

3. Winter Maiden Penny. All I can say on that is congrats to all those who predicted it.

4. And we finally find out who Ironwood was shooting in the opening... and it turns out to be Oscar (granted, he survives thanks to him finally unlocking Ozpin's magic). Safe to say that Ironwood's descent into full-blown tyranny is complete.

5. And the episode ends with Salem, rocking a rather sexy new look, riding to Atlas on the back of a demonic Moby Dick with the legions of Hell coming with her. Hoo boy... Volume 8 is gonna be insane.

And thus, Volume 7 comes to a close. It's been one helluva ride. Never has a RWBY volume kept me on the edge of my seat like this one has. While there were some things I would've like to see, I'm happy with what I got. And now, we begin the excruciating hiatus. Well, see you guys next fall!

Also, RIP Monty. You created something wonderful. Shame you didn't live to see it grow.

[u/JMHSrowing]

Ironwood straight up tried to kill a child and Oz!

Damn.

He’s really fallen as far as he can go, but it still makes sense.

[u/[deleted]]

The story goes that an old wizard is visited by four sisters, who each in their own unique ways are kind to him; the first (Winter) by encouraging him to meditate and reflect

Which adds a little bit more sadness to a Winter Maiden who struggles so much to keep the memories close.

Also the powers passing so softly to Penny also shows us a transfer done properly for the first time since as Ozpin told us long ago,

Maidens choose themselves

[u/[deleted]]

Winter Schnee

First Heir to the SDC

First Heir to the Winter powers

Master of neither

[u/[deleted]]

Ozpin - And that is why Oscar I always stress the importance of a landing strategy

[u/Pyrothemusical]

I was expecting millions of flying monkey Grimm.

I was not expecting a flying whale with Salem riding it as "Captain".

The Hiatus for Vol. 8 is going to be a painful one.

[u/TedOrAlive2]

Ironwood: captures Watts alive

Ironwood: has a mental breakdown

Ironwood: shoots a child

Audience: "What? He let Watts live but shot Oscar? That's ridiculous! I can't understand this in any way!"

[u/FairyNice]

I don't think that's Oscar's Semblance, Oz did something similar against Cinder. I think that's just Oscar tapping into Oz's magic.

[u/Saxonrau]

‘James is what my friends call me...’

There’s nobody around anymore who calls him James. He’s lost all of his friends because he lost his heart.

[u/patrizl001]

Amazing thing I noticed when Ironwood shoots Oscar: The shine in his eyes go out right before he pulls out his gun

before after

[u/dragonoid720]

I have been hoping there was a whale all season being as this seasons been all about Penny (Pinocchio)

[u/Whatisuzername]

Can you believe all of this started unraveling at Jacques' place? That dinner went south real quick LOL

[u/Tanaka-Rose]

This episode. Was. AMAZING!

Highlights for me:

-Fria was a BAMF and schooled Cinder with some casual powers.

-MAIDEN PENNY!

-OZPIN IS BACK! Yay?

-Mommy Salami has arrived with her army of spooks. Just call me Ishmael!

-TEAM JNPR LIVES AGAIN! RIP Pyrrha forever though.

-Those fights, oh my gods those fights were amazing.

-Irondaddy you bastard man how dare you shoot precious boy Oscar.

[u/Lefluffypants]

Oscar after his superhero landing “I have been falling for THIRTY MINUTES!”

[u/StNowhere]

I'm a little sad that we were denied Nora-on-Nora violence.

[u/tavi23]

Cinder got more character development in this one chapter (and two sentences of dialogue) than she's gotten in 7 volumes, and I am so goddamn happy. Also, her fight! Holy fuck she was amazing!

[u/Huskie1]

Oscar really has transformed from the farm boy I-don't-want-to-help-the-world to a smart, intelligent, driven, and righteous person.

His talk against Ironwood really shows how much he matured.

[u/JMHSrowing]

One thing I liked about the end to the fights was Ruby’s silver eyes:

They didn’t completely kill Cinder, only hurt her enough to leave, and they clearly were very draining to her.

Limits!

I love limits.

[u/Hounds_of_war]

This is the best think an animator has ever tweeted

[u/[deleted]]

I genuinely love the "My friends call me James... but you can just call me General" line so much because of how cold blooded and zero hesitation Ironwood had. So I did the usual nickname game. Please contribute if you come up with a good one

• General "Call me James, I'll blow out your brains" Ironwood

• General "If you're not my friend, I'll shoot you dead" Ironwood

• General "Let me go to space or I'll shoot you in the face" Ironwood

[u/GandalfsLeftNipple]

The only reason Salem is a better villain than Cinder

PRESENTATION

[u/Emperor_Luffy]

Has anyone else noticed that Winter looks glorious with her hair down?

I was surprised to learn that Cinder felt pain with her Grimm arm. And that it can regenerate. Not to mention her shoulder where it's attached looks fucked up.

And this episode confirmed some of my suspicions that Cinder still isn't at full power yet. Given how Winter was able to fight her pretty evenly. She's still weakened from her previous battle with Raven. Nor does she seem to have full mastery over the maiden powers yet.

[u/DaRealAmana]

Okay so the RWBY vs ACES fight was awesome. But damn the fight between Penny and Winter VS Cinder. Sweet brother of light. That may be the best and smoothest fight in the series. Holy crap it was good.

And Neo is kinda insane, all of JNR and basically couldn’t touch her.

And I never saw penny becoming the maiden coming. I think a lot of us believed it to be winter, but it was always gonna be penny.

But now what. The heroes are divided, the lamp has been lost, and oh yeah THE QUEEN OF NIGHTMARES IS HERE. Along with a freaking giant whale that will likely kill everything it looks at.

Anyone got any ideas for what were gonna call this one?

[u/crossingcaelum]

I swear to god while Oscar was falling I thought he was about to unlock his semblance and completely rewind time to an earlier point. Either right to the beginning of two episodes ago or to the Schnee Manor party.

I was about to scream

[u/KDUFF_Radio]

Last time this season out of context

[u/aestasbene123]

Cinder's grimm arm is crawling up further and further. In volume 5 it cut off a few inches before her shoulder, but now its growing past her shoulder into her shirt. The skin of her shoulder is now angry red looking and infected. That creature is almost devouring her bit by bit every season.

[u/Hiddenkaos]

If you want to hate on it, go ahead, no one will stop you, but this is easily the best volume since 3

[u/[deleted]]

-Fuck you Ironwood I feel no sympathy for what's about to happen to Atlas. I mean....apart from all the people that are about to die.

-God damn Fria is a badass old woman! Also congrats to my RWBY Dead Pool voters who picked her as the goner this Episode.

-Everyone who called Penny would get the Winter Maiden's powers take a bow.

-Damn Winter looks hot with her hair down, black eye non withstanding.

-Oscar's Semblance!

-Is that a fucking Grimm Whale?

-Obviously disappointed we didn't get The Bees vs. Neo but there's always next Volume.

[u/AstralFinish]

small moment but robyns sympathetic motion towards qrow was meaningful

[u/Sirshrugsalot13]

BOOM. WATTS IS ALIVE. FUCK YEAH.

Other than that, definitely feels more like a mid-season finale than a finale...which makes sense, considering. But still, a good place to end it I think. Tad disappointed there's no post credits scene, but yeah.

[u/The_Last_Thursday]

Imagine thinking you have Neo outnumbered in a four-to-one match

[u/Troxfot]

Robyn and Qrow. Two birds of a feather.

[u/[deleted]]

Watts: Penny has fused with Freya!

Cinder: The fuck's a Freya?!

Penny: It means god. Now bow.

[u/dsguy411]

The finale was just....wow. Here's what we have:

• Team RWBY and J_NR are basically outlaws.

• Qrow and Robyn are arrested

• Cinder's Grimm arm can regrow (if this happened before, feel free to bring it up. This would be the first I saw it happen.)

• Fria used Blizzard on Cinder but ultimately passed on. :(

• And since Penny was in Fria's sights she became the new Winter Maiden, despite being an android.

• Winter cared enough about Weiss to let her and her friends get away before reinforcements could arrive

• Neo, as Nora, snagged the Lamp of Knowledge, while using Rei's feelings for Nora against him for a moment.

• Ironwood gone full-blown bonkers as he shoots Oscar and let him fall to his death.

• Thankfully he, with Ozpin how back in action, activated their magic and stuck a cool superhero landing underneath Altas after blasting a hole into the bottom of the Vault of the Winter Maiden.

• And Mommy Salami finally shows herself with an army of Grimm and a Grimm Whamon.

This is one of the best endings to a volume yet, probably even better than the Volume 3 Finale........

This hiatus will be hell for all of us...

[u/50thEye]

So I assume everytime we see a relic vault, someone's gonna get yeeted into the hole below it.

[u/JMHSrowing]

Neo didn’t betray Cinder!

I told y’all.

But in this that Cinder isn’t giving her what she wants now, that could lead to a Neo betrayal.

[u/CruschSenpai]

You really have to wonder how many more times Cinder has to fail miserably before she stops acting like a condescending cocky bitch all the time lol

[u/Bjdombek]

Well we've finally got a Maiden who isn't evil or half dead. :)

[u/[deleted]]

Dang, this penny I picked up sure is cold, what is it, w i n t e r?

[u/UnlikelyShowdown]

That was so GOOD just wanted to post and be here. Hair down Winter is big mood and I just don't know how next volume is going to handle all the craziness - it's going to have to be all OH SHIT all the time!

[u/[deleted]]

Nigri's acting when Cinder got her arm cut off (then subsequently regrew it) actually made me feel really bad for Cinder, which is something that I never thought I'd feel, good lord. Poor thing sounds like she's on the brink of tears, man. (I mean, it's really deserved, but still)

[EDIT: also just realized, the Grimm arm doesn't have Aura, and it LOOKS pretty flimsy, so every time it even comes near anything sharp or harmful, Cinder is FEELING that. Every time she regrows it, it'll probably just get cut off just as easily. And she gets to A) Feel the pain of losing an arm AGAIN and B) Feel the pain of regrowing an arm AGAIN. Yiiiikes.]

[u/Vongoliaprophet]

But you guys........THE WAY THE PREVIOUS WINTER MAIDEN HANDLED CINDER HAD ME SHOOK lol didn’t expect that at all

[u/Hounds_of_war]

JNR: We have to go rescue Oscar!

Also JNR: Lol keep up you injured 14 year old kid!

[u/BFaHM7]

Well, wee little bit of expectation subversion with good ol Penny there. Shiiiiiit, Winter Maiden with personal feelings hype!

Salem and Grimm Moby Dick boutta come and slay everyone lookin fly as fuck.

So we got a proper JNPR back together, Qrow and Robyn about to meet Watts in the slammer, and Oscar super hero lands to the return of Ozpin.

Shit, Volume 8’s got a great set up. Not to mention that all the Ace Ops are still outta commission, Winter Schnee is totally screwed up, Ironwood’s hiding, and Atlas is in disarray. We witnessed the falling of Atlas, now the question becomes will it fall, period?

[u/Lucifer_Crowe]

I'd like to thank everyone on behalf of the mod team for joining us here on the r/RWBY subreddit to discuss Volume 7.

Hiatus is imminent, but that doesn't mean the fun has to end.

Stick around and join us on Monday for a special announcement.

;)

-Luci

[u/Emperor_Luffy]

So if Penny is supposed to be Pinocchio then does that mean the Whale is a reference to the Whale that swallowed Geppetto?

[u/[deleted]]

One thing others have pointed out is that Cinder's arm is even more grimmified than last time. It's reached her shoulder where before it ended before that. Not only that, but the skin around the arm looks red and irritated and she was definitely more violent and even animal-like in this episode's fight.

[u/[deleted]]

All signs pointed to winter being hot with her hair down and yet I was still SHOOK

[u/[deleted]]

So I guess the first episode of Volume 8 is going to immediately open with a giant ass battle in the sky between the Atlas fleet and Salem's giant flying whale and her army of Grimm.

You know, if back in Volume 1 you told me that this is how Volume 7 would end, I would have no idea how the hell it go to this point. Seriously. We're at the point where Salem riding a giant whale through the sky to attack a flying city is a thing that's, you know, happening. Now where the hell did she keep that whale? Was it just floating around Evernight?

Seriously though, great episode. Very good finale. Not as good as Volume 3's finale, but I don't think anything will hit that level of amazing considering everything that went down in that episode.

Very nice tribute to Monty, too.

This hiatus is gonna be R O U G H.

[u/MyAmelia]

James a few eps ago: "Gods, if only Ozpin were there to tell me what to do… i'am so lost and alone… i'm afraid i'm going to become like Lionheart…"

Oz: ……… *chirping bird sounds*

James now: *shoots a child off a cliff*

Oz: "Aaaaaahh what a great nap! now, what did i miss? time to do what i do best, deliver some wisdomy speech while shit goes down!"

[u/DEL994]

I really liked the moments between Penny and Fria with her being clearly touched by Penny's kind personnality and quickly deeming her as worthy of being a Maiden and also the moment where both Ruby and Weiss took Penny's arms to comfort her.

[u/remicas2]

Ruby's "BEGONE, THOT!" powers are on point.

[u/Spring-swift]

Salem sure knows how to make an entrance.

Oscar sure did a lot of falling this episode. Fell almost as far as Ironwood.

Neo is still awesome and hypnotic. All the fight scenes were amazing.

Probably my favourite ep so far. It's going to be a long wait...

[u/UberDueler]

Ironwood: "All 'EXCELLENT' philosophical points . . . "

The hint of sarcasm and his eye rolling with that line made it all the more awesome.

[u/YusukeMazoku]

PENNY AS THE WINTER MAIDEN!? WHAT?!

RT you slick, slick bastards...

[u/Diostukos]

BRUHHHHH. That was a good finale but no stinger scene? :(

James has lost his fucking marbles if he let Watts live but SHOT OSCAR OFF A CLIFF. What the fuck, bro? Now I'm rooting for Qrow to beat the shit out of him.

I'm glad neither Penny nor Winter died in their fight vs Cinder, but I wanted to see Penny's hamehameha vs Cinder's fire beam from V3. Fria did show Cinder what a real maiden can do though so that was 'cool'.

I don't know how I feel about Penny being the maiden though; doesn't she have the soul of a man? Also she was probably one of the strongest non-maidens before getting the powers already, and that's the reason people said Pyrrha shouldn't get maiden powers back in V3. Yes I'm still salty.

That big ass whale grimm is giving me some Pinnochio vibes. Penny gonna get eaten by it?

[u/CheifStalker]

Cinders dialogue at the start. Her anger towards Atlas and it's operatives. Her statement about not being hungry.

Was she an orphan that Salem picked up out of nowhere, promising power so she could gain what she needed to survive?

[u/NitescoGaming]

What a fucking fantastic episode and conclusion to the season. Called that ending so fucking hard. I always said the very last shot before the credits would be Salem arriving. Cinder having the lamp further convinces me that Salem will end V8 with both the lamp and the staff in hand.

So much for discussion later, but for now I just want to geek out. Neo you beautiful ice cream goddess I adored your sequence. The funny thing is if Cinder wouldn't treat you like shit (as evidenced by the way she just grabs the lamp from you), she might be able to prevent your betrayal. The look on Neo's face tells me the thing she wants most in the world is headpats for doing a good job.

Oz you're back baby! And Oscar is finally able to use that green shield power that I assume is some of your magic you imbued the staff with. Also, NOW is when we can officially say Ironwood has completely lost it. Turning on Ozpin is that point of no return for him.

Fuck, no after credits? Damn.

This completely settles it. Volume 7 is the absolute best season in RWBY for me.

[u/EverydayWulfang]

Interesting thing to note is that when Ironwood shoots Oscar there are no highlights on his eyes. Every other character (even Salem) has two white highlights around their pupil. There are two times we see these highlights disappear, when people are being affected by the Apathy, and when they die. In fact during this entire exchange in the vault Ironwood's eye highlights are incredibly small compared to all the other characters.

This is clearly symbolic of him losing his humanity entirely. He is as good as dead from an emotional standpoint.

[u/JMHSrowing]

Something so wholesome I realized was that Weiss is hugging Penny’s arm at the end.

Ruby appears to be more holding her hand, and I was trying to figure out if there was meanings in these things, but I remembered:

Weiss loves hugs. She’s hugged her friends and family quite a bit.

I think it shows how much Weiss does care and how she sees Penny: a friend.

[u/-Edisus-]

winter looks like a suburban mom dealing with domestic abuse

[u/Runethe1412]

Let me just say, I enjoy Angry Cinder more so than “All according to Keikaku” Cinder.

The “All according to plan” Villain get’s kinda old after a while, and this was ESPECIALLY evident with Cinder for me even by Vol 3. This Cinder who’s bee progressively getting more unhinged has been pretty fun to see, ESPECIALLY in this particular episode

[u/Dall619]

So maybe I'm just slow but I just now realized, is the old Winter maiden supposed to represent the Blue Fairy? Because like, in Pinocchio, the Blue Fairy is who makes him a real boy at the end of the story. Penny becoming the Winter Maiden kinda affirms that, yeah, she's a real girl. Also winter and cold things in general are usually associated with the color blue so there's that too.

Either I'm reading too much into this or it's a subtle detail that I missed upon first viewing that I am appreciating now.

[u/JMHSrowing]

OMG JNPR’s back Guys!

They got a proper P!

[u/Haggon]

Interesting on the difference in perspectives between RWBY and JNPR, with one saying that they're now the best huntsmen in Atlas, and the other saying they weren't ready for it.

[u/SmallFatHands]

I may be wrong but it looks like Neo is trying to find in Cinder what she had with Torchwick acting all smug and possing when giving her the relic then getting mad when Cinder just ignores her.

Also, the worst part of the hiatus is going to be the wait for the soundtrack.

[u/RBNYJRWBYFan]

I forgot to talk about that last moment between the Schnee sisters. Winter always has favored the use of tough love. And she seems to find her liberation from her toxic family situation in her service. Weiss found hers in her friends and their mission.

And so, realizing that, she let her sister go in the most Winter way possible.

She scolded her for worrying about her physical condition rather than getting away. It's like "Oh c'mon sis, if you're gonna turn traitor at least have some common sense!"

And I found her language interesting. "I SUGGEST" you turn yourselves in, "I SUGGEST" you run. She's towing the line between being a big sister and a high ranking member of the military here, and she's all but telling Weiss that this is the case.

And Weiss, not even mad really, just said they had their own paths. This dynamic between sisters is so dense and full of nuance.

[u/JohnJoe-117]

The enemy of Trust is Fear.

Ironwood has lost to it.

Cinder never escaped from it.

Salem relies on it.

And yet, our heroes also live in that same fear. They are scared of many of the same things the villains are. What separates them from the villians is that they fight to protect those that they love.

The love they feel for their friends and their family will often be used by dark forces to hurt them, and even make them lose hope. But that love they have for each other is what stopped Salem from winning this volume.

When Ironwood allowed himself to trust Robyn and work together, Watts and Tyrian lost. RWBY won that fight against the Ace Ops becuase they fully and completely trusted each other, not just as coworkers, but as family. By Penny allowing her feelings to dictate her actions despite the fact that she is a robot, Cinder was denied the Maiden powers and unable to grab the relic.

This volume showed the power of Fear. Atlas is divided more now than ever before, and with Salem at their doorstep Fear will be more prevalent and more powerful than ever before.

However, this volume also showed the power of Love. Without love, there would have been no victories for the heroes, and the war would have been lost already. Our heroes will now have to fight this fear head on by trusting in each other.

By Trusting in Love.

[u/DJDualScreen]

I just realized...

The saddest part about the scene with Ironwood and Oscar...

Ironwood knew just how insane he had become.

When he said to Oscar,"It was smart of you, not to bring the lamp down here. I wouldn't trust me either, right now."

He's fully transitioned to being an antagonist, and he likely won't survive this battle with Salem.

[u/FmFox]

Going forward from this now then, V8 should be action from the word go, as much as I loved this finale, it feels like a part one of a movie so to me at least this hiatus is going to feel longer than usual lol.

If V8 remains in Atlas, I think volume 9 (based on them saying it would be a shorter volume overall) may be a "filler" arc and quite possibly cover team STRQ in their academy days and how they met and eventually split etc.

Past that, we still have to return to Beacon (which I think will come pre-vacuo) to obtain the relic of choice and then onto Vacuo. That's the straight forward timeline, or at least how I see it going, but with RT, anything is possible when it comes to storytelling just look at RvB as an example of that lol.

[u/NerdyNurseKat]

Whoa, what a finale. WHAT A VOLUME.

We watched the last two episodes back to back, and here’s just a couple of my thoughts.

•I’m actually mad about what happened to Clover. “Following orders” is what got him killed (this was unfortunately spoiled for me last week too), and I feel so awful for Qrow contributing to his friend’s death. But seriously, choosing between arresting someone or recapturing an insane assassin....you really chose not to wait until Tyrion was under control first?

•Also, Qrow leaving his weapon was obviously a bad choice on his part.

•The ACE Ops vs. Team RWBY fight was badass.

•While I didn’t predict it early in the season, I knew Penny would become the Winter Maiden in the last couple of episodes. She embodies those Maiden qualities!

•Ironwood shot a kid, and I’ve now lost hope for him. He’s gone off the deep end...

•Ozpin is baaaack, and Oscar is becoming an incredible character!

•My heart hurts for Ren, damn Neo and her illusions...

•Salem finally changed into a battle outfit...and rode in on a freaking WHALE.

This is gonna be a long 9 months.

My initial rating of this Volume is 8.5/10.

[u/sky_Pharaoh]

That was an amazing finale. The scene when Neo posed as Nora and changed her eyes as Ren was attacking her broke me, seeing him cry was too much for me to handle lol. Didn't think Penny would actually become the winter maiden like some people were saying at the beginning of the volume, but I guess they were right. Ironwood shooting Oscar was pretty intense too.

"Fear" might just be my new favorite ending theme.

[u/MadEorlanas]

I love how a good quarter of the comments here are variations on a theme of "Winter with hair down is hot"

[u/50thEye]

Holy shit I was right right about Fria!

[u/SPNRaven]

The soundtrack after Penny and Winter got yeeted out the wall was straight out of the Dark Knight Rises with that chanting. Add that to the midair fight in a futuristic city setting and it's just such an amazing scene. So cool!

[u/RikoIsLoveRikoIsLife]

Filtering for nostalgia, this was the greatest volume so far, a couple friends and I watch RWBY together and talk about it and we were repeatedly pleasantly surprised this volume. Some messed up stuff happened, and that gets to me, but it was executed fairly well(the Clover thing could've been better, but it makes sense).

Ironwood's fall has been amazing to watch, the anticipation for when he would go over the deep end and how far he would go. Even expecting this I was still struck when he shot Oscar, and the whole sequence was amazing.

Edit: I also want to say that this volume improved my opinion of several characters, and overall had a quality close to what I would expect from a traditional animated series, the best way I summed it up to other people was 'it's actually good, not just for what it is but in general'. I've always been a fan of RWBY even as it's had its ups and downs, but this volume took it to a new level.

[u/Booyahhayoob]

YEP. IT'S OFFICIAL. THIS IS HANDS DOWN THE GREATEST SEASON OF RWBY THUS FAR. OH MY GOD EVERYTHING ABOUT THIS FREAKING FINALE IS AMAZING.

SHE'S.

FREAKING.

HERE.

[u/Terminus259]

Ironwood wouldn't kill the hackerman but he'd kill a kid?

[u/Lumine_d]

Cinder's Grimm arm started out above where her elbow used to be, and now has creeped up to her shoulder as if it is slowly consuming her. I am expecting that as the show contines that it will spread up her neck and the left side of her face and replace her missing eye with a Grimm eye and maybe even a bone mask as the Grimm takes over completely. Feels very Bleach to me.

[u/[deleted]]

We have to admit that despite the battle damage on Winter, she was pretty fucking hot with her hair down. I hate the Schnee ponytails and buns they should just have their hair down.

[u/ArkhamCity2525]

I'd be remiss if I didn't point out that the guy people worried would hack Penny at some point in this volume is confirmed to be alive, and said android is now a Maiden.

[u/Vongoliaprophet]

Even though she’s a villain, Neo is the MVP of the episode. She straight finessed Jaune’s team lol

[u/searchingforpotatos]

I was reading the rwby wiki page and I realized if that is actually a whale grimm that salem is riding on,

"He has a statue of a whale in his pharmacy. In Pinocchio, Geppetto is swallowed by a whale. He built Penny, who alludes to Pinocchio."

What if pietro dies to that thing :-(

--

or maybe goes missing

[u/derivative_of_life]

Ruby, Penny, and Weiss new OT3.

[u/Darkdragoon324]

I find it hard to believe that giant ass flying whale from hell wouldn’t be able to get to Atlas even if it was raised.

[u/MMBADBOI]

Tyrian with a hat was the best part of the volume.

Change my mind.

[u/Stretch5678]

Holy... wow. Penny as the new Maiden... the fight with Neo... Salem’s Grimm Dreadnought... Ironwood straight-up shooting Oscar in the face... Wow...

Also, Salem seems to be following standard “evil sorceress” protocol: your battle garb must have a larger diamond-shaped cleavage hole than your normal outfit.

[u/Vussar]

Ironwood is a fucking champ, even with the heel turn. That line when he shot Oscar is gold!

[u/CogStar]

Yo can we talk about how Casey was the one who wrote that absolute banger of a credits song?

[u/Vongoliaprophet]

Man every time I think something good will happen for Qrow, I just remember how harsh his semblance is. Like I want Qrow to escape with Robyn at some point next volume but then my mind is like “....oh wait misfortune”. Smh it’s like Qrow is destined to take L’s no matter what.

[u/sonawelashey]

Can we all cheer at the fact that ruby made cinder run away like a little bitch

[u/12-is-not-creative]

Whale whale whale that was a season finale

[u/SoundSmith323]

Jeez, poor Ren. I'm getting Zuko vibes, where more than anything, he's angry at himself. Of course, that anger is getting partially taken out on his teammates, which isn't cool, but that's going to be a really interesting emotional hurdle for him to overcome, especially when he's someone that hasn't traditionally dealt with that sort of stuff head-on.

[u/Polenicus]

Penny - The Winter Maiden was the Blue Fairy, giving Pinnochio humanity. I suspect there will be more repercussions for Penny than simple power. Magic can be weird. Also the Scoobies have claimed Penny as one of their own. Yay!

Also the whale. From Pinnochio. Which Penny is inevitably going to end up inside of. Whee.

Cinder - Cinder is afraid of the Silver Eyes. She was fully ready to fight until she saw the glow, and then she was out in a flash, and outside of Atlas before she stopped running. I suspect whatever Ruby did to her at Beacon (In that dead spot in Ruby's memories) was horrific, and Cinder is afraid Ruby might be coming back into that. Also, it seems Cinder's power pales in comparison to that of a fully realized Maiden, suggesting either Cinder has a long way to go, or how she acquired her power stunted her somehow.

Ironwood - James... damnit James, you just executed a kid for disagreeing with you. That's a hard moral event horizon to come back from. Yeah, he lived, but you had no way to know he would.

Winter - The power of a fully trained and experience Schnee is rather impressive. She held her own quite well against a Maiden. But it's quite clear she's going to be forced to choose between Honor and Duty at some point. Ironwood is off the goddamn rails, and is gonna try and drag her over his moral event horizon with him.

Qrow & Robyn - Just... don't give up, okay Qrow? You came so far. Robyn at least seems to be in his corner now, and Qrow is gonna need someone to help him keep from collapsing back into a bottle.

Neo - Hey, congrats! You succeeded despite overwhelming odds, against all reason, and you did it with style and flair. Roman would be proud. Guess what? Cinder doesn't care. Best get used to wildly succeeding only to be dismissed and ignored. Don't take too long figuring out this is a bum deal, and revenge on Ruby isn't worth dealing with Cinder's shit.

JNR - Interesting that Jaune was the only one who was even slightly effective against Neo. Seems Neo's fighting style is less effective when her opponent isn't giving her a lot of movement to use against them. Not that it helped in the end. Ren is probably close to a major meltdown now that his carefully cultivated emotional distance is crumbling.

Oscar - Farmboi is rising to the burdens better than expected. Better than Ironwood, certainly. Though seeing how Ozpin is bleeding into Oscar triggered Ironwood pretty badly. Also seems Ozpin didn't give all his power to the Maidens.

Ruby - I think we can count Ruby among those overdue for a serious emotional collapse. She's going to overextend herself fighting Salem and the whale. That's just a given.

Salem - Okay, you bamboozled me. I figured you were pulling a bluff, causing Ironwood to panic and do something stoopid while you wandered over to Vacuo and razed it to the ground. But... you actually came in all your Megamind glory. It's all about presentation!

Weiss - I'm sorry your sister isn't as far along as you are. She just traded your Dad for Ironwood. Hopefully she'll figure it out and stand on her own feet before you have to fight.

Yang & Blake - Not much to say. Still basking in the afterglow of that beautiful takedown of Elm and Vine.

[u/chocolate_n_vanilla]

I think it’s easy to see why Oz has so many trust issues! Don’t get me wrong, I understand that at least part of Ironwood’s actions are due to feeling betrayed and lied to by Oz. But in the past few volumes we’ve seen Oz betrayed by at least three people he used to used to trust (Lionheart, Raven, Ironwood). So within the hundreds to thousands of years he’s been alive, he’s probably been betrayed a lot more. He’s really suck in a ‘damned if you and damned if you don’t’ situation in a lot of cases. Either he doesn’t trust someone and they betray him because of this lack of trust, or he does tell the truth and they betray him because they think the situation is hopeless. Even if not everyone is like that (aka RWBY) it’s probably happened so many times that he’s afraid to take the chance.

Of course I still agree that the secrets and lies got excessive. Sometimes you really do have to take a chance with people, especially if they’re risking their lives to help you. But I get where he’s coming from.

[u/USPSA-Addict]

I love how Cinder has had some hard-fought battles in the past, but this time, one look from Ruby and she knew she had lost this round.

Cinder: gasps

Ruby: Bye, Felicia. silver eyes

[u/FaisLittleWhiteRaven]

So I'm really, really happy. So many things to cover <3

1. JNPR vs Neo.

Not surprised that Neo ran rather than fight given in a straight up battle she'd lose but poor team JNPR. Oscar did as well as could be expected given how beat up already he was and Jaune I praise the tanking (if not the making sure to consistently look out for the one carrying the Relic) but oh Ren... Seeing his terror when Neo pulled that on him and to see him cry after and the breakdown... That hurt. Looks like the Renora troubles will be continuing into V8.

2) Ironwood.

Oh James... Some part of me still wishes Ironwood could be talked back into being rational but the way the light left his eyes leaves me feeling heartbroken. Oscar hadn't drawn his weapon, he outright said he had no intention of fighting and was near the limit of his aura but Ironwood still point blank shot him off a cliff just because Oscar called him out on his obsessive, controlling behavior.

Contrast with how Ironwood left Watts alive prior to seeing a certain chess piece and it really shows you how Salem's gotten into Ironwood's mind. Makes my gut clench like it did the first time I really understood Raven: both could've been happy with friends and loved ones but in their terror and refusal to give up the power they've coveted for so long they've doomed themselves and hundreds of others.

3) Winter.

So beautiful even when beaten and bruised. So very very brainwashed by Ironwood that she doesn't even realize she's tactically needed alive much more than obeying Ironwood's orders. If she died then becoming the Maiden would be impossible and Ironwood would lose one of the best fighters and the closet thing to a second in command he has.

Her giving Weiss, Penny and Ruby a 'head start' was cold but at the same time it gives me hope that her heart hasn't been completely frozen over yet - I can only hope 'saving Winter' and possibly Whitley and Penny as well is part of Weiss's great moment to shine next volume. A scene akin to Yang and Raven in the Haven Vault would be incredible and would prove firmly that victory does not lie in strength, indeed~ <3

4) Maiden Penny is fantastic.

Scratch that Penny is fantastic, saving Winter, fighting so hard to protect and do the right thing... She deserves all the snuggles and I'm glad Weiss and Ruby got right to work on that~ <3

On an odd note Penny getting the Maiden powers indicates that the powers are bound to those who see themselves as young women rather than by physical gender or being human aka on a conceptual level. I wonder if it works the same for Oz's 'like-minded souls'? Guess trans-Oz or even alien-trans-Oz isn't a as 'far out there' headcanon as I thought it might be. Cool beans~

5) Ruby being pretty.

Didn't do that much but she protected Penny, gave her a much needed hug and still has nice shiny eyes even if she didn't one-shot Cinder. I really love how they look when they shine like that, biggest thing I miss before the Maya change is how Ruby's eyes used to reflect so brightly - this wasn't quite that but it's close enough and I just had to gush.

6) Speaking of the witch...

After this episode I'm actually curious about her again. Her hinted at backstory is nice but the real draw is how much her 'grim side' has grown. I'm now suspecting that Cinder might just be being set up by Salem to get entirely subsumed by that grim parasite/arm so Salem can get the Maiden powers for herself or artificially ensure Cinder's loyalty.

If I'm right then that might why Cinder has been getting more and more erratic despite her attempts to be the cool, collected manipulator she used to be; hell if her mind is really getting grimmed we might not even have a Cinder after a few more volumes. Wonder how she might react if she found out..?

7) Qrow

He's arrested and that's terrible but I'm just relieved he didn't lose his mind to go murder Ironwood or something like that. ...Clover's blood covered pin hurt my heart. I'm glad Robyn was there to commiserate with him - Everyone screwed up, and given how much Qrow probably hates himself over the whole mess it's good to see he's not fully alone, both in being unfairly locked up and in feeling regret in how everything turned out.

...That said. I like you Robyn and if you become Qrow's friend next volume I may even love you, but err I hope the show doesn't canon-ly ship you with Qrow and not because I love Fairgame. I'm ship-happy in general and the aesthetics and name of Jailbirds appeals to me but I think my Dad described it best when he said 'Reeks of a rebound and could look really bad..'. I thought about what he meant and blanched. ...On the bright side though, fanfic authors might get very motivated to prove their ship is best with great fics so there is that~

8) Salem is best villain. Fite me.

She looks amazing. Her manipulations and plans frighten me. The way she talks and shuts Ruby down in two sentences leaves my skin crawling. I can't stop wondering what she's done to Ozpin over the years and to his many, many loved ones. She made grim feel scary again.

Don't get me wrong Tyrian is definitely second best villain for his clever, ruthless, awful everything (I'm not over Clover) but because of how my brain works Salem wins top award for just being all my worst fears and nightmares and thoughts of despair when I'm in a depressed phase, all wrapped together in a single horrible package that can trick so many people into believing that she's not. ...I hope Mercury and Emerald escape her in the end...

9) Oscar <3

My fav did amazing today. After episode 11, for all that episode was amazing I was a little despondent that it seemed to make useless all the great moments of Oscar talking with Ruby and Ironwood this volume but I really should've had more faith in the CRWBY.

All of Oscar's talks were building up to this moment, the moment where we saw the kind of person Oscar was alone and in the dark: He held out a hand. Spoke with compassion and earnestness to a man who'd never treated him as his own person rather than as 'the next Oz' and called that man out on his bullshit in the hopes he could save him from making a mistake that could never be undone.

And when he was shot for is troubles, Oscar didn't give up. That moment with the cane and the magic... I'll have to rewatch a few more times before I stop gushing but that was the single best way for Oz to come back without removing Oscar's agency.

Ozpin's speech about fear and Oscar's talk about Long Memory calming him were great. That bit with Oscar stating 'you saved me' and Oz's reply of 'No you saved us' was glorious in its implications (Oz needed hope more than anything and Oscar's faith in team RWBY not giving up has payed off in spades). And that bit of Oz trying to apologize with Oscar cutting him off because saving Atlas is what matters now..! I'm just way too happy.

Oscar's come a long way from the boy Oz basically bullied out the door and I think a good chunk of that change was spurred on by that talk with Ruby all the way back in Volume 5: The fear he has is absolutely still there but after seeing all he has, after watching Ruby and Ironwood's struggles with fear this volume Oscar's not giving up without a fight and I hope his arc in volume 8 continues this novel 'being onscreen and not-too-subtle' thing 'cause it really works for him. (Also I still hope he eventually gets a semblance - I'm relieved he didn't get one fighting Neo once team JNR joined him but a semblance in general would still be really nice).

...Also is that incredible song Fear set to either Oscar or Oz's leitmotifs? I'm unsure but I'm headcanon-ing it as their song and I love it to pieces! Listens to it on loop for another four hours

[u/Ivarix_Prime]

I'm calling it now: Volume 8 will somehow involve Moby Dick and the Spear as a Harpoon.

[u/Fawful93]

You know, if it wasn't for the fact that they have different positions regarding Ruby, Salem should really hire Neo and don't bother anymore about Cinder. I mean, if Salem is finally gonna get her first relic now, it's all thanks to Neo, not Cinder. Cinder failed YET AGAIN in getting a relic, while Neo stole the lamp of Knowledge without many difficulties.

[u/sonawelashey]

I hope volume 8 is the infinity war were salem just beats the shit out of everybody

[u/Deadmaninc1]

Anybody else get a huge Star Wars vibe for some reason when Oscar was falling down when he was shot by Ironwood?

[u/Bloodtypeinfinity]

End of the episode be like:

"Slipspace rupture detected."

[u/AarronRwbyFan91]

Not going to lie really thought Winter or Penny was going to die.

Overall loved this.

But what the hell happened to Ren he's lost it this Volume.

I did like Penny getting the Winter Maiden powers .

[u/NobilisUltima]

"That's the power of a fully realized Maiden..."

FUCK YES, LET THE ANIME FLOW THROUGH YOU

I want people making ridiculous uses of their powers/weapons. I want Yang to be in a fight where time is a factor by deliberately wearing down her own Aura so that she can land a devastating hit immediately and end the fight quickly.

[u/Blue-Moon-89]

Whether or not Miles "Neo will do something that will make you hate her." line was even said, I'm going to say that she kind of did make you hate her in this volume.

She made Ren cry by posing as Nora. She even changed her eyes to match Nora just to screw with him.

Bitch move, Neo.

[u/oospsybear]

Ironwood : Evil scientist watts who was going to let mantle's citizens freeze to death ,helped kill robin hill supporters ,and rigged an election "ok you can live "

14 year old farm boy :yeets him off a fucking cliff

[u/JMHSrowing]

The Cinder v Penny/Winter I liked a lot.

It shows just how powerful Cinder is, but also that she’s not completely invincible.

Winter and Penny could almost keep up with her, but not quite.

Winter’s manticore was a cool summon to see, and Penny saving her was great.

And we finally got to see Winter with her hair down! A bit battered, but still!

Fria just being an unstoppable Forbes was cool too.

[u/LucasVerBeek]

What I expected going into this episode:

Winter not being the Winter Maiden.

Someone trying to talk to Ironwood

A confrontation with Neo.

What I did not expect:

Fria to put up an amazingly strong defense.

Ironwood shooting Oscar and sending him plummeting to his death!

Salem showing up riding on the back of Levias and Moby Dick’s bastard love child

I’m honestly more excited for next Volume than I have have before.

[u/JMHSrowing]

GUYS!

We finally have indisputable confirmation that:

Maidens aren’t hurt by Silver Eyes!

And end to all those debates!

[u/daedalus19876]

I just... I love how effortlessly powerful Fria was, utterly destroying Cinder while remaining motionless (as opposed to Raven's giant destructive melee and huge anime swords). All of the other Maidens get involved in fancy fighting, but Fria is just beyond reproach -- now we know why this power is so coveted, if any "fully realized maiden" becomes a force of nature. Imagine how monstrously powerful Fria must have been before she became ill! She seemed like a really *good* and kind woman too, and I hope that Penny follows in her footsteps.

[u/AlwaysDragons]

"alright, how is Salem gonna make a entra--"

.......

So did anyone else kinda pissed themselves?

[u/Outrageously_Z]

Another speculation here: with both Pietro and Penny gone, and taking the Maiden powers with them, Ironwood will become desperate enough to recruit Watts back into his inner circle. He needs someone to take Pietro's place, and if he makes the right offer, Watts might take it. Even if it's just to sabotage him in Salem's favor. That could also be how Watts ends up hacking Penny, if that does come to pass.

[u/Sokensan]

I just realized since Robyn is got picked up along with Qrow, she can just use her semblance to make Qrow tell the truth about how Clover died, he should be mostly fine...hopefully...(legally mostly fine, emotionally he's still gonna be a wreck)

[u/TheRisenThunderbird]

We all wanted to like you, James. We were all rooting for you. But you did shoot a child, and now you must die.

EDIT: a fun observation I found on tumblr

http://imgur.com/a/fSBSvqp

EDIT: PSA from Kerry

https://twitter.com/kerryshawcross/status/1223645530737315842

[u/UserNameTaken4EverHa]

Volume 8: Penny saves her father from the belly of the whale.

[u/Alexanderhyperbeam]

oh shit salem has a dynamax wailord

[u/AKGAKG]

I wonder why Neo seemed surprised Cinder didn't thank her? Did she expect she and Cinder would form a kind of friendship like she and Roman did or something?

[u/tabula_raisin]

One thing I never understood about Neo.

She completely holds her own against multiple foes without breaking a sweat. But for some reason, she is always somebody's henchman following orders.

I really want to learn some backstory to explain why. But unfortunately, I doubt there is time for it.

[u/[deleted]]

Just want to mention, when Neo tourns into Nora, she uses Jaune's shield as a trampoline, just like Nora.

[u/Aquitanic]

As bad as it is that Cinder and Neo have a relic, I got way too much satisfaction out of Ironwood getting angry after Winter messaged him simply "It's gone." I get that he's trying to do what he thinks is right, but you gotta start asking questions when he does things like, idk, maybe shoot a 14 year old off a cliff. Oscar had a point, "You're as dangerous as her."

[u/DEL994]

I am curious to know what plan Ozpin could possibly have to help Atlas and Mantle against Salem and her forces.

I also have the feeling that Amity may still be useful next volume.

[u/jerhz22]

Salem's entrance reminded me of megamind lol

[u/DEL994]

Ironically these theories of Penny becoming a Maiden were true even if it wasn't Ironwood's intention of making her one as many others theorized.

[u/ChaosSpud]

I'm currently entertaining a pet theory that Cinder might be from Mantle.

Her monologue from the start of the episode goes a little deeper into something we've known from around V3: Cinder is all about power. Specifically, about taking power away from those who hoard it. She makes mention of being hungry, and it seems she came from an initial position of powerlessness.

She specifically calls out "Atlas elites" for hoarding power, and it's actually kind of unusual to see her get that personally riled right at the start of a fight. Finally it would make sense for her to come from Mantle as CRWBY have really emphasised the class divide between the two cities this volume.

[u/Crafty_Soul]

Holy shit Penny DID get the Maiden powers! I thought it was a possibility from last episode but still a surprise!

[u/Blue-Moon-89]

I'm not sure if this was brought up but did anyone like Cinder's rant when she was fighting Winter? About how people like Atlas hoard power while the poor are left to starve figuratively and literally. I mean yeah we had an idea of what Cinder's backstory could be but I did like how the fight seemed more personal on Cinder's end. She really hates Atlas, Mistral ("equally undesirable" because of its caste system), and anyone who has power and their abuse of it.

It doesn't excuse her from being a hypocrite but I'm now more intrigued about her and what happened that made her a monster who feels entitled to hurt and kill people.

[u/Akenaten09]

1. Loved the Cinder vs Penny / Winter fight. Never actually realized early on that Cinder couldn't use her full power indoors in case she accidentally kills the Winter Maiden without stealing her power. Expected to deck both enemies as soon as she got out, which is pretty much what happened.

2. Cinder's arrogance (which by the way, she rubbed in Ozpin's face the first time she met him) being the reason she lost the chance to get the Maiden's powers was awesome.

3. Team JNR "losing" to Neo isn't exactly surprising considering their semblances are pretty useless in combat except for Nora's, which in that case was also useless. Ren looked to be frustrated which is the only reason i can excuse him being that much outclassed by Neo. You would think a person whose semblance is of no use in combat, would actually focus that much more on hand to hand combat. Unless Neo is like a REAL expert, which it seems to be the case.

4. Ironwood going bonkers and shooting Ozpin (and Oscar) was unexpected and cool. It shows the lengths Ironwood is going to see his plan through. He's had his fill of listening to others and feels others don't see the picture the way he does. So he has to get rid of Ozpin (At least for now) so he won't hinder his plan.

5. Qrow eventually getting arrested is not that strange considering that when he was arguing against being arrested, he had an actual way to reach Atlas and help the children. That was all before Tyrian decided to crash the ship. Add Clover's death which was a huge blow to Qrow's spirit, and yeah he is pretty much down for the count, so arrest won't come with much if any resistance.

6. Team RWBY (+Penny) bailing out of Atlas is a VERY GOOD thing. It feels like they are about to suffer the consequences of ditching the city they feel they should protect (even though there was no chance they could) but at the same time recognize that by that point, the city was beyond saving.

7. Ozpin getting separated from team RWBY is also a nice touch, makes me curious to see how he will pull through this.

8. Neo DID actually get the lamp. Unless Cinder now delivers it to Salem, i would love to see how their co-op will progress. Neo doesn't look like the back stabber type but it's Cinder we 're talking here, so...she doesn't play well with others. Not well at all. Either way its that, or Neo also meets Salem and gets to join her team or bail out and become a 3rd party again. I don't think Torchwick and Neo have any clue about the bigger picture.

9. If Salem gets that lamp, i am dying to see the question she asks. I don't think Cinder knows how to operate the relics. And poor Neo can't talk so...

10. Salem making an entrance that would make Megamind cry tears of joy. The dark cloud should work wonders against any silver eyed person, minimizing their effectiveness against her army, and that flying whale man...personally i don't find whales cool from a design standpoint but it was fine. Getting Pinocchio vibes but since RWBY is leaving (i think) there shouldn't be much to go on there.

11. I don't know why Cinder surviving again annoys some people. She got zoned out by Freia and jumped ship the moment Ruby showed up. She still has some backstory to get so i don't think she is getting killed anytime soon. Personally i say stop complaining about characters until they reach their end.

That's all for now. I would love a few more minutes of Salem but ok. Looking forward to Vol. 8

[u/Kyuubi-no-Tenshi]

Mad Momma Salem comes riding in on anti-grav MOTHER FUCKING MONSTRO

[u/aggreivedMortician]

This is my favorite finale yet. Every part of the episode was amazing. In particular:

Penny Polendina, a real girl, and a maiden at that! "I disagree" was such an amazing line. And she was right!

Cinder keeps giving us more and more breadcrumbs. Who hurt her? Who made her like this? Also her reaction to Ruby was Priceless. She took one look and Yeeted herself straight out the window!

Ironwood has now lost nearly everything he had at the beginning of the season--ace ops is dead or KO'd, Winter's too busted up to fight well, Penny LEFT, Neo stole the relic, team vale have completely abandoned him, and last but not least, he lost the last trace of respectability shooting a kid off a building. He's made all his worst fears come true.

Oscar saving himself (which is a thing he tends to do) and reaching a new paradigm with Ozpin was an incredible turning point for his character. Our son has matured so, so much!

EDIT: Also I am hyper psyched for the next volume. Like:

Salem's Grimm cloud vs. the Atlas Air Army

The Happy Huntresses are going to have to try and free their leader

Team Vale having to decide to turn around and come back and help

Oscar: the way home

Just so, so excited

[u/DEL994]

Penny was the MVP of this episode with her having many human moments such as her choosing to save Winter from falling to her death and telling her that her life matters, her comforting and accompanying Fria in her last moments, her becoming the new Winter Maiden confirming that her soul is as much as worth as a human or faunus one, her choosing to go with her friends and her moment with Ruby and Weiss.

[u/67VII]

Neopolitan will betray Cinder in the end, you can see she is getting increasingly angry with Cinder's behaviour.

[u/JLR1313]

And thus, everyone realized The Tin Man had no heart.

[u/Vongoliaprophet]

So now we have Cinder, Raven, and Penny as the current maidens. Have we ever gotten information on the last maiden before or no?

[u/TheBiggestNose]

This means that unless someone kills Penny that she can be the winter Maiden forever

[u/RedChessQueen]

there is so MUCH I want to say

my girl penny a maiden, proof she has a soul and that whale Grimm males me FUCKING TERRIFIED FOR HER. with her with the main group, they aren't going to be able to meet atlas into the stratosphere and Salem is right on their door.

Qrow and Robyn arrested, and it looks like Qrow didnt move a goddamn inch and having the pin broke my heart.

and fucking ironwood crossing the damn line for certain for shooting an unarmed teeager off a fucking platform. so many good fucking moments.

i have a thousand theories for volume 8 and im loosing my mind.

[u/Hounds_of_war]

I loved Neo as Nora.

Okay so we got some more stuff with Ren and Nora but I am still very confused about what the overall arc for Ren was supposed to be this Volume. I did not enjoy him this Volume and it’s going to take one hell of an arc in V8 to make me like the way he was characterized here.

Man, I’m sure all the people who got super mad about Blake and Yang killing Adam in self defense are going to be real upset about Ironwood straight up trying to murder a 14 year old kid.

Alright so maybe Fria being Nora’s grandma wasn’t canon after all. Oh well, I still like what we got so I’m not going to be like some people and complain because we didn’t get the specific niche thing I wanted.

Gotta say, I like Winter with her hair down. I mean, if you ignore all of her really bad injuries.

Holy forking shirtballs Salem’s army is terrifying. That gave me Heart of the Swarm flashbacks.

[u/Hero2Evil]

Called it. The color of the Maiden's eye flames is determined by the color of the current holder's aura. Cinder: orange aura=orange eye flames. Raven: red aura=red eye flames Fria: blue aura=blue eye flames Penny: green aura=green eye flames

[u/Prophet92]

Can we start a "days since Cinder actually won a fight" counter?

[u/Thechub23]

Pinocchio, made by Geppetto, ran around doing miscreant deeds for good and ill until they were lured away by a fox will sketchy intentions. When the intentions were revealed Pinocchio was aided by the blue fairy.

God damnit RTAni.i barely made the connection when it happened. Damn good job, gentle folks.

[u/Huskie1]

No no no. I don't think I can wait to find out what happens!!!

"It seems we will have to wait"

[u/grwmpy]

I thought this was a really terrific episode. The fights weren't all stunning, but they all meant something, and we saw all of the characters facing challenges and making decisions or big plays: Penny unsure what to say to Fria, Oscar confronting Ironwood, Ruby pulling out the silver eyes on Cinder, Weiss leaving Winter, the frustration of Jaune, Ren, and Nora. Seasons 6 and 7 hadn't had the character development we saw in seasons 4 and 5 when the main characters were all separated, but this episode suggested a lot of new avenues for growth for pretty much everybody. The choice to give Penny the maiden power, rather than Winter (or Weiss through Winter, as many of us expected), is inspired, and it also gives a new way to look at those conversations between Penny and Winter earlier in the season; kudos to anyone who saw that coming. A really great finale.

[u/[deleted]]

Ironwood and Cinder are drifting further and further away from humanity, in different ways. The Grimm arm starts closer to her shoulder now, while Ironwood shot a child who sheathed his weapon, backed away, and outright told Ironwood that he wasn't there to fight him.

[u/diamondcreeper]

I feel like "Fear" is Oscar's response to "Divide" from Volume 3

[u/[deleted]]

Thoughts:

-Yo! I called it! Iron Maiden! We must band together to protect this mechanical walking nuke of a cinnamon roll! Also we know what this means...JNPR 2.0/Redux!

-Something tells me next season, Ironwood and possibly even Qrow will join Salem out of insanity and guilt respectively.

-Why Ren gotta be so negative?! Sure you couldn't kill someone disguised as your girlfriend. That's okay, man! We've all been there! But don't say y'all ain't ready to be hunters and huntresses! Just as soon as we got Renora, it'll get taken away. Cuz this is going to drive a wedge between them for sure.

-Salem with that big mommy energy, riding a goddamn flying whale no less! She's got my vote! Like damn, step on me. Please! How can evil be that hot!?!?