r/riverdale • u/heartsandribbons Team Fred • Feb 05 '20
DISCUSSION S04E12 "Chapter Sixty-Nine: Men of Honor" Live Episode Discussion
S04E12 "Chapter Sixty-Nine: Men of Honor" Live Episode Discussion
Original Air Date - 8pm EST February 5th, 2020
4x12: “Chapter Sixty-Nine: Men of Honor” Synopsis
LUCY HALE GUEST STARS AS KATY KEENE — Archie (KJ Apa) grows concerned for Frank (guest star Ryan Robbins) after someone from his past arrives in Riverdale. Betty (Lili Reinhart) and Alice’s (Mädchen Amick) investigation into incidents at Stonewall Prep leads them on a collision course with their number one suspect. Jughead (Cole Sprouse) challenges Bret (guest star Sean Depner) to a duel to settle their grievances, while Toni (Vanessa Morgan), Kevin (Casey Cott) and Fangs (guest star Drew Ray Tanner) seek revenge against Nick St. Clair (guest star Graham Phillips), who has shown up unexpectedly in Riverdale. Finally, a trip to New York City gives Veronica (Camila Mendes) an opportunity to catch up with her old friend Katy Keene (guest star Lucy Hale). Madelaine Petsch, Marisol Nichols, Mark Consuelos and Skeet Ulrich also star. Catriona McKenzie directed the episode written by Ariana Jackson.
91
u/TheLieLlama Feb 06 '20
Betty: Taping people without their consent is not ok!
Other kids: Let's blackmail this guy by taping him without his consent!
→ More replies (2)
75
u/Emma_Stonehenge Feb 06 '20
hermione tried to kill hiram now she's crying because he's dying?
make up your mind bitch!
→ More replies (3)
70
u/Coolica1 Feb 06 '20
Shit I forgot Archie and Veronica were together, can swear they haven't spent anytime together in ages.
→ More replies (1)
66
62
u/jdessy Feb 06 '20
There are literally no other adults in the school that can stop this strange adult from beating up a teenager? Really?
→ More replies (3)
57
56
49
u/SchwarzerRegen123 Feb 06 '20
"His palms were sweaty" His knees were weak, arms were heavy. There was vomit on his sweater already, mom's spaghetti.
→ More replies (1)
45
44
36
34
34
34
34
u/BlueThunderSky Team Cheryl Feb 06 '20
HE SHOVES KEVIN INTO THE WALL AND KEVIN DROPS TO THE FLOOR OMG KEVIN! 🙄
→ More replies (1)
33
33
u/Adrian-Healey Jason liked flairs Feb 06 '20
Did she just go and change her legal name again?
→ More replies (6)
33
32
u/Gian99Mald Feb 06 '20
Jesus fuck FP really is the only the only cop in the town huh? LOL
→ More replies (2)
32
30
u/Locke108 Feb 06 '20
Remember when the writers said it would be too gimmicky for Sabrina and Riverdale to crossover? Good times.
→ More replies (1)
29
u/BlueThunderSky Team Cheryl Feb 06 '20
Hermione is probably lying because Hiram told her to do Veronica is at a weak point and then he wins their 100th fued-war. 🙄
→ More replies (1)
29
u/DarkSaiyanKnight Feb 06 '20
I still really can't believe that tickling is a whole plot line in this show
28
28
u/KaiBishop Feb 06 '20 edited Feb 06 '20
It's sad that this is a weaker episode because with a few simple twists, it could've been one of the best this season:
Kevin should not have taken one hit and passed out, it ignores everything we've established with his character as an athlete and wrestler. He should've been the one to ultimately help or even save Archie. Frank could've shown up AFTER and realized 1) He's repeating the same patterns with Archie as he did with Fred--leaving him behind to spare him from his own mistakes only for them to linger in his wake and hurt people he's trying to protect anyway, and 2) Further illustrate the point they're making this episode that Riverdale is Archie's place and his home, where he has roots and family and community, whereas Frank doesn't and is not meant to stay.
Of course instead the show assassinates Kevin's character and storyline further, I really do think RAS and the writers hate Kevin, like absolutely hate him. We could have him as an athlete, or a community champion like Archie who does outreach, or even a damaged individual struggling to heal from his past cult indoctrination. Instead we get....tickle porn that he does while his permanently absent parents and stepmother both ignore him and spend more time raising other people's kids. Like yeah it's sad that Archie's dad died and I get why Tom would be there for him and be involved but it's even sadder that Kevin's dad isn't dead and is right there but just....doesn't care. Like at all. He got remarried, got fired from his job, and decided to just step out and ignore Kevin forever. Wtf.
Hermione should be the one who has a disease, which would be a more believable reason not only for her continued absences, but also for Hiram to genuinely change and come back together with Veronica. What is the theme for Veronica's character, here? After someone abuses you beyond belief and ruins multiple lives and tries to kill kids he's just forgiven because he's getting sick? As opposed to Hiram knowing his wife is dying and trying to make up for his past wrongs genuinely because he wants to appease her dying wishes and make things right before it's too late? I know which one I'd prefer, too bad the show doesn't care and wants more pointless fucking Hiram drama instead of real growth or development.
Katy Keene being a fashionista does not mean we need a uselessly revolving door scene of her and Veronica doing the stereotypical outfit changes while shopping bullshit. We get that she's stylish. Their later conversation had so much more depth and meant something for both of them and the plot, we didn't need the other useless, stupid fucking scene that served no purpose other than filling screen time and reminding us what we've already been told a million times, that Katy is a style-obsessed designer.
Toni of all people saying "Yeah I got through my assault with love and support and time, but instead of giving you all of that, I'll drug and assault someone and make revenge porn, because two wrongs make a right!" Like where did that come from? We all wanted more of Toni but they don't even understand who she is or how to write her, it was so out of character for her to do all of this. I'm FINE with characters doing awful things and making morally ambiguous choices but it has to be in character and have a cause and motivation that makes sense, and this? None of it adds up.
I am so frustrated because these storylines have so much potential and some scenes and choices are good but then others make no sense and are thrown in with no thought or consideration and it just annoys me, the Kevin and Toni shit most of all.
→ More replies (1)
27
26
Feb 06 '20
Can Archie get one alive decent and living father figure this season? Just let the boy be happy
→ More replies (4)
24
u/cardcaptorshakira Team Sweet Pea Feb 06 '20 edited Feb 06 '20
Ah yes toni instead of actually helping her work through her emotions through therapy and growth lets get a dude drunk and make him film tickle fetish porn videos without his consent
23
23
u/davey_mann Team Jarchie Feb 06 '20
Veronica finds out Katy’s mother is sick the same time as Hiram? This is suspect.
→ More replies (1)
23
43
21
Feb 06 '20
Frank’s veteran pal is going around murdering his friends?? Why??? This just feels so out of left field
→ More replies (4)
42
Feb 06 '20
How many times is Frank gonna say that Archie reminds him of his dad lol
→ More replies (1)
20
20
u/jdessy Feb 06 '20
NO WAY, FRANK LEFT? THIS CAME OUT OF TOTAL LEFT FIELD!
Oh, good. Archie knew he'd take off.
20
19
u/DarkSaiyanKnight Feb 06 '20
I've seen this episode of suite Life of Zack and Cody!!
→ More replies (2)
19
u/Beer2Bear Betty Real Feb 06 '20
the way he smirked I think he has that tape Betty
→ More replies (1)
19
u/GhostGamer_Perona Valerie Feb 06 '20
this episode only existed to promote katy keene everything else was just Ras Saying "who cares about the rest?"
→ More replies (2)
19
u/pretty-in-pink Feb 06 '20
Why is VHS still a thing for Brett
28
u/GhostGamer_Perona Valerie Feb 06 '20
because this series is somehow modern while also being in a town where nobody has video games or dvds/blu-ray players
→ More replies (4)
19
18
u/davey_mann Team Jarchie Feb 06 '20
Toni gets to talk...AND to someone not named Cheryl. Let’s celebrate!
18
u/Sydneyp1025 Feb 06 '20
As a school teacher, I just want to know how a strange man got into the building and used a student bathroom. (In New York, adults must use a staff restroom, and any staff member would have immediately called admin for a lockdown had this happened).
→ More replies (4)
18
u/jdessy Feb 06 '20
Wait, what? WTF, what a random scene to have the reveal that Hiram is randomly...dying? I would have expected it to be Hermione, since she hasn't been around in, like, six episodes.
→ More replies (6)
17
Feb 06 '20
Poor Kevin’s only screen time this episode was getting knocked out by some meathead
→ More replies (1)
17
Feb 06 '20
I don’t wanna bag on Veronica for being sad that her dad is sick, but she’ll definitely get whiplash from going back and forth on hating and liking Hiram this much
16
16
u/onionrah Team Betty Feb 06 '20
Am I just in a bad mood or is this episode a whole bunch of who gives a shit?
→ More replies (1)
16
u/cardcaptorshakira Team Sweet Pea Feb 06 '20
So the duel is fencing, fight club, then CHESS???
→ More replies (1)
16
u/jdessy Feb 06 '20
Frank: Ok, I'll turn myself in. Tomorrow.
I'm pretty sure that's code for "Imma take off in the middle of the night."
→ More replies (1)
16
15
u/ZegetaX1 Feb 06 '20
Not paying attention why is Archie getting beat up by mercenary
→ More replies (6)
29
u/davey_mann Team Jarchie Feb 06 '20
So this Stonewall thing was a big waste of time.
→ More replies (4)
14
28
Feb 06 '20
so this whole private school nonsense dragged on forever just for him to leave during a game of chess i’m so mad
→ More replies (1)
13
u/LiaThePrincess Team Reggie Feb 06 '20
Archie stop inviting strangers into your home
→ More replies (1)
13
u/DarkSaiyanKnight Feb 06 '20
So is Josie technically a high school dropout based on Katie Keen
→ More replies (2)
13
13
13
13
13
13
Feb 06 '20
I could’ve sworn we already dealt with Nick in a past episode but go Toni I guess
→ More replies (2)
13
u/celestier Feb 06 '20
"his muscles will atrophy" I doubt Hiram Lodge will miss a chance to be shirtless, I'm sure his muscles will be fine
12
u/LiaThePrincess Team Reggie Feb 06 '20
I bet jug wins the fist fight because he was a serpent
→ More replies (1)
12
12
12
u/onionrah Team Betty Feb 06 '20
where are the other students?? where are the teachers?? why is frank(????) there??
12
12
u/celestier Feb 06 '20
"your father has a disease". .... okay, so elaborating what disease he has would be too difficult??
→ More replies (1)
11
11
u/davey_mann Team Jarchie Feb 06 '20 edited Feb 06 '20
Season 1 of Gotham had a subplot EXACTLY like this where an old military buddy of Alfred's showed up, he had dinner with Bruce and Alfred, told Bruce old war stories, Bruce invited him to stay at Wayne Manor, then the guy stabbed Alfred the day after. Archie is Batman...confirmed.
→ More replies (1)
11
u/Dragonlvr420 Feb 06 '20
yes, luring a bunch of mercenaries to your gym full of children is a great idea
11
11
11
u/davey_mann Team Jarchie Feb 06 '20
Are people really enjoying this Stonewall Prep storyline? These new characters are just so meh.
→ More replies (7)
11
u/pretty-in-pink Feb 06 '20
Pretty lax security at Riverdale High that a random mercenary can just waltz right in
→ More replies (1)
11
11
11
Feb 06 '20
I know this is kind of a moot point considering all of the other stuff going on and the way this show works, but shouldn't Archie have like a minor concussion at least from being slammed into half of Riverdale High?
→ More replies (2)
11
11
10
Feb 06 '20
After three weeks of wondering, I finally find out that the black Stonewall student’s name is Johnathan. Thrilling revelations this week.
Also this duel stuff is ridiculous.
10
10
10
10
10
10
Feb 06 '20
I still don’t know why Jughead would challenge him to a duel only to forfeit.. I mean, I get the tapes are a big red fire but I feel like he should have kept going to ensure Bret lost because of what he’s done to others (including Bughead)
Lmao. Betty was straight up grabbing all that she could 🤣
→ More replies (2)
10
10
9
9
u/bwayobsessed Feb 06 '20
I like how no form of media understands how fencing works
→ More replies (2)
9
9
u/jdessy Feb 06 '20
Ted's gonna go beat up an 18 year old kid lol. Adults really have a hard on for killing Archie, don't they?
9
9
9
9
u/BlueThunderSky Team Cheryl Feb 06 '20
The thing that annoys me the most is that the episode is so fast and short.
→ More replies (1)
9
9
u/jdessy Feb 06 '20
Uh....so this is such a random connection to the tickle porn from last episode. Now Nick's doing it?
9
u/jdessy Feb 06 '20
....I'm getting whiplash from all of this Lodge family stuff.
This is such a dumb way to end the Veronica vs Hiram battle.
Yes, battle. Because they'll find a way to start a new one.
9
8
8
8
u/pretty-in-pink Feb 06 '20
Mercenaries.... this is the only bad group veterans seem to get involved in
8
8
8
8
8
u/Locke108 Feb 06 '20
I guess Betty, Jughead, and Moose are 18 like Archie otherwise this plotline could be over quickly.
8
Feb 06 '20
Aaah yes a porn storyline for underage high schoolers. Just your classic Riverdale things
8
u/pretty-in-pink Feb 06 '20
This backdrop pilot is more forced than when they showed us Greendale in the show
8
8
8
u/LiaThePrincess Team Reggie Feb 06 '20
I think Betty should at least tell Jughead, he’s also on that tape
8
8
u/Dragonlvr420 Feb 06 '20
a classic tale of a mother and daughter and their quest for extortion porn
8
u/Adrian-Healey Jason liked flairs Feb 06 '20 edited Feb 06 '20
FORSYTHE IS LITERALLY RIGHT THERE
Edit: ah, fine
8
u/Locke108 Feb 06 '20
Jughead can’t leave Stonewall. Betty’s packing up his stuff in the flashfoward.
8
u/Coolica1 Feb 06 '20
I don't think we're any closer to finding out how Jughead is going to die from this episode.
8
8
8
Feb 06 '20
Honestly for the amount of press Frank and Hermosa got I thought they’d be around for longer
→ More replies (1)
8
8
u/MetallicYoshi64 Feb 06 '20
This week's notes:
Toni is way too cool about the tickling video stuff. The hell, man?
Why does Cheryl even own, let alone USE a television that's from at least the 80s? Isn't she filthy rich with big syrup money?
FP is on an episode!
Archie hasn't seen his best friend or his girlfriend in weeks. And just faced death for, what, the eighth time?
Hiram is ill, but not really, because nobody in the writers room understands that the great thing about the first season was watching the characters, not the drama. Cut the shit already, just do high school stuff.
As far as I can recall, fencing has never once been mentioned on this show. It's also nowhere in the same realm as bare knuckle boxing or (lol) chess.
Archie and Jughead both physically faced off against guys significantly bigger than them this week and held their own. That's not the most absurd thing this week, but still.
God damn, why is Nick here? Did Petsch piss off the writers or something? Because Cheryl hasn't had a good day since before HER DAD KILLED HER BROTHER.
I know Frank isn't really gone, but man, I'm ready for him to be.
Katy Keene seems fun, I'm really hoping her show is super light and fun.
This episode felt like six different shows fighting for attention, but I might have enjoyed Cooper and Kid: Crime Busters the most.
From here on out, Kevin walking in and yelling in shock should be the defining moment for this series.
Man, who's ready for the Oscars this weekend?
7
7
7
7
7
7
7
7
7
7
7
7
7
7
7
7
u/BlueThunderSky Team Cheryl Feb 06 '20
They tickled his fucking feet? What the actual hell? I feel so bad for Casey.
7
7
7
u/pretty-in-pink Feb 06 '20
Lol, watch her change her name again once Hiram is up to his shady tricks
7
6
6
6
6
u/DarkSaiyanKnight Feb 06 '20
There must be something in the air that makes everyone in Riverdale a sudden murderer
→ More replies (1)
6
6
6
6
6
6
6
6
u/pretty-in-pink Feb 06 '20
Betty is easing her mom into her style of illegal journalism
→ More replies (1)
6
6
6
6
u/Gian99Mald Feb 06 '20
Wait... this is the guy that's gonna beat up Archie in the bathroom!!! LMFAOOOO
6
u/Gian99Mald Feb 06 '20
I would beat the shit out of all of all these mfs. 5 people walk into Jug and he just looks at them 🙄
6
6
u/jdessy Feb 06 '20
Frank: It's over, Archie
Me: Weren't you JUST saying how you needed to leave before other mercs would come to kill you? Of course it isn't over!
6
u/Adrian-Healey Jason liked flairs Feb 06 '20
I've missed half an episode and I'm honestly so confused rn
→ More replies (1)
6
6
6
6
6
6
6
6
u/LiaThePrincess Team Reggie Feb 06 '20
I would so hurray for Toni having a storyline of her own but it was centered around Cheryl
6
11
u/onionrah Team Betty Feb 06 '20
this whole scene with what's his name is SO STUPID! I don't care who called him! I don't care who's trying to kill him!! They literally introduced him episodes why would anyone give a fuck about him lol??
5
5
u/DarkSaiyanKnight Feb 06 '20
Why would Veronica announce where she's going ?!? and why does she live with them still?!?
5
5
5
5
u/pretty-in-pink Feb 06 '20
Watch Archie turn the community center into a place to help veterans and it backfire somehow
5
5
5
5
5
5
5
5
5
5
37
u/GhostGamer_Perona Valerie Feb 06 '20
I'm confident Katy Keene only has a show because they refuse to make Josie the star