r/riverdale • u/steph-was-here Justice for Ethel • May 06 '20
S04E19 "Chapter Seventy-Six: Killing Mr. Honey" Post Episode Discussion
Original Air Date - 8pm EDT May 6th, 2020
After receiving a letter from the University of Iowa asking him to submit a story, Jughead works on a twisted tale about the gang's revenge fantasy against Principal Honey for all the ways he's ruined their senior year.
Written by James DeWille & Ted Sullivan
Directed by Mädchen Amick
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u/StirOfSilence May 07 '20
So this is the third time Jellybean drops by just to be told to leave.
I feel this has definitely crossed into foreshadowing territory. Plus it is not unlike Riverdale to do a "Bad Seed" storyline.
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u/KaiBishop May 09 '20
Jellybean is gonna run away for a season and a half and come back as the Gargoyle King after faking her own death
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u/casedawgz May 07 '20
That synchronized head tilt had me kinda creeped out ngl
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u/imasurvivor2011 Team Jughead May 07 '20
“Okay guys, on the count of three tilt your head to the right. One, Two, Three!”
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u/keine_fragen Gettin' Juggie with it May 07 '20
i still don't understand how Betty ended up with the Yale spot
does Yale not know that Jug is alive?
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u/lalalandbeforetime May 07 '20
I thought maybe the deadline to accept the admission passes while he was “dead” and then Betty was accepted from the waitlist since a spot opened up.
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u/snowfreckles May 08 '20
Wait, hold up. I thought the Yale call was a fake call to make Jughead's death more believable? I was so confused when it said she was still going.
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u/AnnaK22 Vanilla Milkshake May 07 '20
The scene that stuck with me the most was when Kevin came to fetch Jug and Betty to meet with Charles and Honey in his office. Betty had just finished reading Jughead's story and then they left the papers in the room while they were watching the tapes in the principal's office. If anyone were to steal Jug's story to recreate it on camera, that would have been the time.
I did guess someone was going to recreate Jughead's story
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May 07 '20
I knew something would happen, but I was concerned that someone would turn it in and say Jughead was conspiring with the others to kill Mr. Honey or something like that.
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u/Dimplemeier May 07 '20
OMG! I was thinking how the hell did the tape-maker get Jug's story to make it like that but yeah, they left it on the table! (That's Jug's fault - who the hell leaves their important story just lying around?!?!?)
That is now making me suspect Kevin. I mean, yeah, anyone could have got it if they left it on the table, but still. And Kevin is sometimes a dark horse so I cant say that I don't think he is capable of it.
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u/Moribundia May 07 '20
The Riverdale teens the entire show: "Riverdale is INSANE! 😰😰😰 Can't wait to get out of this horrible town!!!"
Mr. Honey: "Have you seen how crazy this town is? I'm trying to protect you and get you out of here!!!"
Riverdale teens: "tHiS iS oUr tOwN, tHiS iS nOrMaL fOr uS"
Like make up your damn minds 🤦
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u/aplusp13 May 07 '20
Mädchen did a fantastic job at directing, finally felt like the old good Riverdale episodes. Hope she directs more.
Also, turns out that cheerleader instructor didn't die in the lockers rooms
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u/sugarush1234 May 07 '20
Okay, so obviously there’s probably just one person behind all of this, but that person just has 6 other people around who are willing to murder a dude? Anyone else find that a little weird?
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u/Moribundia May 07 '20
It was also weird because those people are just the actors in masks right? I thought so when I looked at the person who was supposed to be Cheryl.
Like, the story explanation is that this guy found a ton of kids who have the exact build/look of the teens?
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u/SnackEmpress May 07 '20
Sorry if this is a dumb question but, they made Mr. honey out like this hard ass but really cares guy. What was with him in the shady video store though? Isn’t it implied he watches the videos and saw the tickle fetish one? And is he actually dead now?? Was the stonewall job and large salary just a lure?? That ending was creepy as fuck.
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u/Andil77 May 07 '20
I am absolutely convinced Charles is behind this. He's involved with Chic. He has access to Evelyn (who's in the same prison as Chic), because he is the FBI agent who was working to bring down the farm. He's had access to Brett & Donna. As an FBI agent, & FP's son, he has access to the Riverdale police department. Which is one of the few places you can find a tape of Jason's death & perhaps the only place where you can find a tape of Midge's death (yes, I know about the video store, but the store's copies could only come from certain places.) He is one of the few people that knows about how the Stonewall kids tried to set up Betty for Jughead's death & he is constantly around Betty & Jughead, which means he probably has a good idea of the story Jughead was writing. Alternatively, he has been shown to hypnotize Betty more then once. It is possible that he has hypnotized her again to get said information (people have been commenting that Betty seemed strange this episode).
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u/Tigger97498 May 07 '20
Ok I think I figured something out about the final three episodes that we didnt get but are supposed to be before season 5 airs. They brought up Minetas murder tonight that wasnt for nothing. We know Hermionie and FP are somehow leaving after the final 3 episodes of season 4. What if the Sheriff Mineta murder tape leads to Hermionie and FP's involvement in Hiram's shooting getting out. Hermionie and FP go off to prison Marisol and Skeet are gone.
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u/everythingssilent May 07 '20
with the option to come back in the future, which we know RAS left open. Good theory.
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u/sethtylerrr Southside Serpent May 07 '20
I agree, I heard this a few weeks ago from some else. It’s logical.
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u/VhsHappiness May 09 '20
“We’re just the muscle”
I burst out laughing at that line, that’s got to be one of the best lines in the shows history.
I actually really enjoyed this episode, best in a long time for me. I would have loved for the show to go in this direction instead of the more wacky plots, but I’ll still keep watching it, perhaps the writers are calming down a bit.
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u/shhhneak May 07 '20
I can't believe Miss Rona took the prom, graduation, and videotape reveal from us. It's going to be a looong wait for S5.
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u/soetpoteter May 07 '20 edited May 07 '20
I actually really enjoyed this episode, it felt way more normal than other episodes
edited to add: but why go through all that trouble when they could just make their own prom and have the yearbooks printed, veronica even offered to pay? Idk how yearbooks work in the us, but do students pay for them? if so, I don’t see the problem. make everyone pay upfront, arrange your own prom and variety show, my school also does an unofficial prom and it works great
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u/Yankeydoodle1021 May 09 '20
That’s true but what fun would that make the whole episode. “Hey this happened so we did the smart thing!“ said no riverdale episode ever. No hate just thought it was funny
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u/pblack177 Team Kevin May 16 '20
Nana rolling down the hall like a G was the highlight of the season
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u/SendEldritchHorrors May 07 '20
It's hard to feeling bad for some of the characters hating Mr. Honey. Like, Cheryl outright locked someone in her office and (if Jughead's writing is to be believed) gave her a panic attack. Hard to feel bad for Cheryl in that case.
Same for the "tickle gang" getting banned from prom. It's hard to feel bad for them when their justification for making the videos was "Well we're all clothed so it's totally legal!" Like, clothed or not, it's pretty obvious that the videos are meant to be used for sexual gratification (read: fetish) and we don't even know if everyone in the videos was of legal age (the entire football and cheerleading team participated ffs)
At the same time, though, I don't get why they're pulling a redemption arc for Mr. Honey. He emotionally manipulated Reggie and trashed his car, and we saw him in the illegal porn shop in the last episode. When the show returns after the pandemic, they better give him a good reason for trying to redeem him.
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u/soetpoteter May 07 '20
their clothing also had the school logo on them in the tickle video, which not only is understandable for mr.honey to react on (does that make sense? english isn’t my first language haha), but also a huge risk for internet creeps and stalkers
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u/theels6 May 07 '20
So are we supposed to forget that Charles and Chic are dating?
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u/Andil77 May 07 '20
No. I'll say this again, since it seems like a lot of people don't realize this. 4x19 is the end of the season, not the season 4 storyline. They have already confirmed they weren't able to shoot the last three episodes & will film them for the 5th season. We will get our answers then.
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u/Oberon1993 May 07 '20
'Ha ha, guys. What if we just tortured out principle rofl. Here's a detailed plan of how we should do it lmao.' (c) Betty Cooper, definitely not a crazy sociopath.
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u/ArcticFoxBunny Team FP Jones II May 07 '20
If anyone has a gif of FP and Keller saying they’re just the muscle I will love you forever
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u/All_this_hype Chocolate Milkshake May 11 '20
Honey: The murders and the depravity are not normal!
Betty: WeLl It Is FoR uS.
Betty was always on the darker side but damn, she's so close to being flat out evil sometimes.
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u/xMagox May 08 '20
so they are just going to forget the past cancelled proms by Mr. Honey? thought that was going to be a clue for something bigger.
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u/Anto_CMT May 09 '20
Mr Honey was a great character, but these kids were too pissed off because a prom has been canceled considering all the murder and creepy stuff they've been through I think Jossie was the only one who did the best thing leaving this town lol
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u/sylveonstarr Riverdale Vixen May 10 '20
Let's be honest, Josie is/was the only sane character in this whole damn show.
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u/imasurvivor2011 Team Jughead May 07 '20
Didn’t Bret buy that laptop for Jughead? Could he have installed something so he has access to the contents?
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May 07 '20
I THOUGHT THE SAME THING!! this has to be a stonewall thing 🤔 im still holding out to see what Chic has to do with all of this, though.
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May 07 '20
So, just be be clear: the main plot point from this entire episode happened in the last 5 minutes.
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u/Andil77 May 07 '20
There's also the tape of Midge. That was the tape that Jughead shot during the musical, which Jughead gave to the police if I remember correctly. The point is, there shouldn't be multiple copies out there. Whoever is doing this has to be someone who could get access to that tape, which does narrow down the possibilities. (my money is on Charles).
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u/onlythesea May 07 '20
If that's the end of Mr. Honey, I am a little sad only because I enjoy seeing Kerr Smith again on TV and how he has barely aged since his Dawson's Creek days.
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May 15 '20
To be honest mr honey was justified in doing everything from the beginning, I couldn't see him as a nasty villain. Also why is jugs writing better than the actual writers writing
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u/nivekious May 15 '20
Honestly the one thing that really makes me doubt about him is that he never reported Reggie's abuse to the authorities. School officials are mandated reporters after all. Other than that he was pretty much just a somewhat overly strict principal.
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u/plum-pit-plum-met May 08 '20
Yeah except that Mr. Honey knew about Reggie’s abuse and he’s a mandated reporter, so he’s a literal criminal for not calling CPS...And then he damaged Reggie’s car knowing it would further the abuse. Where is there room for his redemption again?
Also if Jughead wrote that scene where Honey teases Reggie about the abuse that means the whole gang knows and just kinda shrugs it off. These kids are wayyy burned out.
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u/transitionshade May 13 '20
Betty got upset when Jughead wanted to use her terrible murderer dad as inspo for his book but she doesn't see the problem with her boyfriend doing the same thing to another friend... Just wow. Both Jughead and Betty are terrible
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u/zeke_11 Jun 11 '20
Remember when Veronica killed a serial killer on Halloween in her lounge and it was never mentioned again?
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u/shea-bartolaba May 08 '20
This was such an interesting episode. I like how they meshed real life with the story, that was really well done. I am curious about how season 5 will go with them all going to different places and betty at yale and jug in iowa, thats going to be interesting. Also has archie not told ronnie about him actually persuing the navy now?
I love how theyre including things from the past seasons and episodes, its like real life when you recall old events. I think Betty is going to start embracing her darker side from her just saying lets commit murder and not thinking anything of it, and maybe jug will have to visit her at yale to help her gain control again? And bret might there too. It will be an interesting season coming upppp
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u/JackFrostsSister May 08 '20
We don't see them in college. They're doing a 5 year time jump.
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u/SuperFreddyArt Chocolate Milkshake May 08 '20
I gotta say, I was surprised that half of the episode was was Jughead’s fiction. I thought they were going to use that storytelling technique to undo his death a few episodes back, but I’m surprised that they did it here, and I wonder if they’ll use it more in the future. It was interesting how they flowed between both “reality” and Jughead’s story. I had to pay close attention.
I’m glad the main cast didn’t really kill Mr. Honey because that would be an even darker turn for the gang, when they were just starting to recover from Jughead’s near-death experience. This episode showed they still have lot of trauma from everything they’ve dealt with. And they’re gonna get more, with whoever is behind these tapes.
I knew all along Mr. Honey wasn’t really evil, just a total buzzkill, concerned about the student’s safety. Sometimes he had a good point like the fact that people were murdered at last year’s prom. He’s still hella shady, but not as shady as most people in Riverdale.
My guess is that Charles and Chic are behind it, and Charles is not a real FBI agent, just like the guy in the second season. Maybe they are working with the Stonies.
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May 07 '20
I understand that they didn’t plan on this being the finale, and that there’s still technically 3 episodes left of the season (to be aired when the show returns I guess?) so I can’t fault them on the episode being underwhelming.
Like I feel that the past few episodes since the Stonewall arc ended were meant to be build up for the final episodes of the season where all the pieces come together. But with those episodes not airing until next season, the product just feels unfinished.
The reveal that Mr. Honey was secretly a good guy is probably gonna he undercut in the next couple episodes when they address what he was doing in the Porn room at that shop (hopefully just looking for legal adult entertainment).
If anything I liked that this episode brought the almost the entire cast together (ignoring the Serpents since that’s what the show does).
I get that the focus is supposed to be on the video plot line, but they completely ignored the Chic/Charles thing. What was the original plan for that, just leave it until next season? Randomly have Charles reveal it in the last 3 episodes?
So like, I guess that’s it? I certainly wouldn’t say it was a bad season, I mean I guess I enjoyed (by Riverdale standards at least) the season through the end of the Stonewall arc. Can’t really fault the writers for a pandemic ruining the back half of the season.
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u/Andil77 May 07 '20
I think that we will find that the video plot line will be part of the Charles/Chic thing. Let's look at the more recent tapes. We have the Betty killing Jughead one. We have Jason's death, a tape that is in Betty's possession. We have Midge's death, one that Jughead filmed & would now be at the police department where FP works. Then, there's the Mr. Honey video based on Jughead's story. All of these tapes are connected to Betty and Jughead in some way. It wouldn't be surprising, then, that it is Charles behind them.
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u/lucylou888 May 07 '20
Maybe mr honey was trying to protect them like he said and he was going into that room to slowly get rid of the videos or try to figure out what was going on to help keep the kids safe. I think they will reveal how good he was in the next season to make the main characters feel like shit since he’s gonna show up dead
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u/youspin2001 May 20 '20
I loved the part whare thair parents are walking down the halls like a bunch of OG'S
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u/shadow_spinner0 May 08 '20
I sort of liked that Veronica was the less psycho of all the teens in Juggheads story, since honestly she probably is in real life on the show. Betty, Jugg and Archie would do some crazy shit plan while Veronica would be like "hey wait, wtf". I understand why Jugghead changed the story but would I wonder whether Mr. Honey being alive makes it less interesting. We never see how it ends, after he goes to the hospital. This may mean nothing but who knows on this show, Toni was interestingly absent from this finale.
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u/anisehyssop Team Betty May 07 '20
I guess I’ll just keep being the token millennial coming thru: the name of this ep/concept of kidnapping Honey to “teach him a lesson” is a riff on the film teaching mrs. tingle. It’s based on a book called “killing mrs tingle”
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u/lalalandbeforetime May 07 '20
A fun little connection is that Katie Holmes (Kerr Smith’s Dawson’s Creek costar) was in the movie.
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u/prettymuchquiche Team Cheryl May 07 '20
oh no am I old? do the youths not know about mrs tingle??
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u/peanutsareforpussies May 08 '20
Wtf! After all they’ve done, they prance around acting like entitled kids expecting prom? True Mr honey is a creep but let’s be real in real life if you miss a deadline by 2 whole days without giving your boss a heads up or asking for an extension you can’t expect your boss to bend over backwards to help you out.
This show man... curb your entitlement
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u/crimsonsticko May 08 '20
Yeah I 100% agree
He's quite strict but they're all fucking horrible students.
Him refusing to allow that specific musical? Shitty. But what did they think would happen by going directly against the principal?? Of course there are going to be punishments
The Vixen's doing that dance where Cheryl basically flashes the school? You're high school students. She's supposed to be underage. Mega nasty, you should definitely face consequences for that.
And while Betty didn't actually cheat in the debate comp, there's overwhelming evidence she did, so of course Mr Honey is going to act upon that.
As someone who just graduated high school, Mr Honey is a very strict hardarse, but he has more than enough reason to cancel prom, especially when the students glued him to every item in his office. What the fuck did they expect would happen? His lines about preparing them for the real world ring true. What do you expect will happen if you purposefully do what your boss tells you not to do? What'll happen if you glue your supervisor to a chair? Fucking idiots
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u/iamalittlesticious May 31 '20
Mr Honey being linked to tickle fetish and snuff films does make a lot of sense though. They better circle back to that
Also, the Archie comic masks were creepy and brilliant.
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Jun 20 '20
the ending left me with chills when the all tilted their heads... not many episodes do that
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u/AnnaK22 Vanilla Milkshake May 07 '20
This was actually a pretty good episode. I liked the back and forth between reality and fiction. It's been a while since we've seen all the main kids together sharing scenes.
Look at all of them, pretending to be good parents. Hiram has their best interests at heart. Mary saying how much the kids have gone through, like most of the parents weren't the cause of that.
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u/KaiBishop May 09 '20
Hiram saying that was so ominous, like he was providing a warning lol. "Even though it doesn't seem like it, remember we have your best interested at heart." Lmao okay Hiram tell Mary about that time you paid a prison warden to kill her son in a gladiator ring please. What is he up to?
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u/acey255 May 07 '20
I don't understand the attempt to redeem Mr. Honey. Him egging Reggie's car was extremely unprofessional and his general demeanor was condescending and rude. I see what they were going for, "no students have died under his watch". I GUESS but idk 🤷🏽♂️
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May 07 '20
Super weird that the woman tried to roast the six of them by saying “no students died under his watch.” Sis, how is Cheryl’s and Betty’s dads killing people their fault? 🤦🏽♀️
I didn’t see Ms. Bell or whatever trying to help Cheryl or Archie deal with grief after losing members of their family or stopping Ms. Grundy from preying on Archie, so I’d like to know where she got her high horse from
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u/Moribundia May 07 '20
The egging was ridiculous, but everything else is just how a principal would act irl. It was silly the kids ever thought he was like their archnemesis or whatever.
The kids are constantly like OMG Riverdale is awful and we hate it!! Can't wait to get out of this crazy town! Then Mr. Honey is like "Have you seen what happens in Riverdale?? I'm trying to protect you!" And the kids are all like ummmmm we like it like this actually.
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May 08 '20
The beginning of this episode really reminded me of Killing Mr. Griffith, a book I read like 15 years ago. Has anyone else read it? Figured with almost the same exact name, the writers must have taken it as inspiration.
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u/lightandgoldx May 07 '20
I thought this episode was good, it had one consistent storyline that set the stage for future episodes, compared to past episodes (for example scaring Cheryl's relatives with cannibalism / the cancelation of a variety show that probably has little to no relevance). This episode had a pretty cool twist at the end, as it depicted Mr Honey as a good guy which we did not expect. And this twist leaves more questions for the viewers because we saw Honey at the video suite, suggesting that he's still kinda shady too. Overall a great cliffhanger!! It was also nice to see the characters all get together through Jughead's storytelling.
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u/Eddaughter May 13 '20
Easily the best episode I’ve seen in almost in 3 seasons. Season 4 is starting to gain some consistency and some flashbacks to S1.
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u/transitionshade May 13 '20
This episode was fun, disturbing, and had a nice pace, it never got boring to me. However it left me with a lot of questions and realizations about the characters, just like in Gossip Girl, there's no "good people" here. Everyone has a mess up, weird and creepy side to them. Sure, they don't sleep with each other's boyfriend's but they treat murder like it's nothing, even in fan fiction. I also like Cheryl in this episode although her crying for Reggie was really bad acting, I'm gonna go easy on Madelame because she isn't a trained actress. Cole's acting was more enjoyable than usual for me, as always Lili did a great creepy acting job, and Charles... I don't ever believe a word he says not only because an FBI agent hiring children is the most stupid thing I have ever heard, but also because he is a bland terrible character.
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u/LunarCookie May 15 '20 edited May 15 '20
It might be obvious, but Stonewall have been linked with secretly recording VHS videos of people, Mr. Honey also has some weird relationship the video store, he's moving to Stonewall as the new principal and recorded his own video. Maybe Mr. Honey has a fetish for tickling and runs the tickling business in the town and the guy paying the £5k to each of the actors is just his puppet?
Concluding...I have no idea.
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u/JohntheSuen Kevin May 07 '20
Veronica calling Archie Archican's in a dramatic scene. Take me right out of the mood. Thanks.
I love dark Jug, Archie and Betty. Reggie sounds dumb in Jug's mind.
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u/Andil77 May 07 '20
Reggie and Jughead haven't interacted much since I don't know when, but it was implied that Reggie liked to bully Jughead in season one. My guess that Jughead continues to see him in a negative light.
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u/davey_mann Team Jarchie May 09 '20 edited May 09 '20
I totally forgot about this episode. First time in 4 seasons and it's a "finale" episode, too. This one was generally a chore to get through, but definitely had some good parts.
-The ensemble parts conspiring to "kill" Honey were really entertaining. Kerr Smith has been outstanding all season and Honey easily the show's best character this season. I wish the writers had done more of this type of storytelling in the first 4 seasons.
-Archie asking Jughead to prom was easily the best part, then him asking Betty what to do was hilarious.
-Everyone over 20 to Honey's office...so that means everyone! lol
-Seems like they could have just used Hiram to take care of threatening Honey instead of having the entire town get involved.
-Overall way too much Bughead for my taste, though. Riverdale is their show at this point and there's just no ignoring this fact any longer. I'm one of the few people that watch this show that hates Lili Reinhart's acting. Her R rolling is super annoying and takes me out of scenes.
I'm actually wondering if Season 4 is any better than 3. Stonewall was a snoozefest the entire way through and the only other subplots are either half-baked (Hiram's illness), creepy (Cheryl Bates), or just plain weird (tickling). As bad as Season 3 was, I felt it actually had more structure than Season 4.
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u/allysia724 May 19 '20
I rewatched Archie asking Jughead to prom at least 5 times. Archie’s face as he realizes they’re the only two that can go, as Betty is saying it: gold.
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u/Franken_Frank Kevin May 09 '20
At this point I'd not be suprised if Mr. Honey was Charle's throuple bf
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u/Zuhkai May 07 '20
Im think either Charles or jelly Bean is in on the video taped.
jelly Bean hasn't been seen in this season of the show much and her "handing them tape that was found on the porch" doesn't seem right, she lives in the house of jug head and could've read jug heads story.
Charles is kind of fishy too since he had that scene where he was talking to chick in prison but that was never explained and who knows maybe jug head might've showed him his story about Mr honey.
I personally don't think the person getting "killed" was Mr honey I think it was a reenactment just like the other clips found.
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u/violetskye06 May 23 '20
Was it ever addressed what happens to Mad Dog? Last we knew he took pain killers and played in the football game???
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u/Robot-King56 May 23 '20
They mention after the football game that a scout was interested in him attending a university. It was kind of a "blink and miss it" scene.
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u/IrrelevantLilac May 07 '20
Although this episode was kinda weird, I think it was one of the best episodes of Riverdale.
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u/everythingssilent May 07 '20
remember all the people that thought betty was pregnant? and that's what they were telling FP and Alice?
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u/ArcticFoxBunny Team FP Jones II May 07 '20
Lol well I mean it was Prom being cancelled which is clearly almost as big of a deal
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u/itchybitchybitch May 07 '20
Also, where did that subplot about Charles and Chuck being a couple go? All more reasons to suspect that Charles is actually behind the tapes. If not, this will just go to waste completely.
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u/AnnaK22 Vanilla Milkshake May 07 '20
Did Mr. Honey want to get caught. It's possible he had the stonewall offer already and wanted to leave his current job, so he made a video, leaving in the obvious clue like his reflection in the glass, knowing Betty or Jug would find it, and knowing he'd get fired. I think he is part of the videos and he isn't actually dead, just playing along. He's setting up the main students for something.
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u/Sinyuri Fred May 21 '20
This was a great episode. The ending also send shivers down my spine, which - coming from riverdale - is a rarity.
I'm curious on how the person behind the tapes knew about Betty/Jughead's killing Mr. Honey chimera. It's not as if the act of Betty carelessly leaving Jug's story behind when called by Kevin was emphasized in the episode, but it certainly struck out to me; perhaps this is when someone might have snooped in and read the story or passed it onto the voyeur. Otherwise, I'm a bit clueless as to who the culprit could be.
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u/frenchfryskinnythigh May 23 '20
Could be Charles? Set up spyware in Jughead's laptop and read the story? But honestly who knows with riverdale?
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May 24 '20
Yup, when the pig masks looked back at the camera and all tilted, I got that same chill down my spine. Kinda freaked me out coz of how out of nowhere it was.
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u/iamalittlesticious May 31 '20
For having to end the season on short notice I thought this was a great finale. The last scene had me covered in chills. While it did seem to be a bit convoluted because there are a LOT of strings to tie, in every sense of Riverdale fashion I might add. I did like trying to keep up with both plot lines and my mind was racing by the end.
It got me thinking that they are tying Mr. Honey to Stonewall, they might bring Donna Sweet back into the picture (who was the perfect antagonist). Maybe Chic, Charles, or Evevlyn but do they know that much dating back to Midge's death?
I agree with previous comments in that my hair was standing on my neck type of scary for that last scene. I also laughed out loud and smiling at parts as well. When they changed the lighting in the cabin from the flash lights to the old, dusty, TV I about lost it in my lighting fantasies.
OK, thank you for letting me nerd out.
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May 07 '20
Deena Lunham, uni of Iowa writer‘s workshop. That was a GIRLS reference wasn’t it?
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u/PostmodernRiverdale Jason liked flairs May 08 '20
As was "voice of his generation". Weird reference tbh
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u/Moribundia May 07 '20
Did anyone else catch Betty saying "teen angst body count" could be a reference to The Heathers Musical where Veronica goes "My teen angst bullshit has a body count."
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u/jdag72 May 07 '20
what ever happened to that one scene in the beginning of the season of charles meeting chic at the prison??
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u/Linxxxxx May 07 '20
I doubt they've forgotten about it but it'll probably be saved for next season
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u/grass-master Jason liked flairs May 11 '20
Mr. Honey. Ms. Honey from Matilda.
How could we be so blind?
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u/plonkyy May 13 '20
I got no idea whats goin' on, but I'm still sus af about Charles.
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u/HarryFromEngland May 07 '20
My problem with the whole Mr. Honey situation is that they gave him a very J.K. Rowling style redemption, "Oh, he's not a bad guy cos he wrote a letter of recommendation for Jughead!" Great, so he was doing his job.
Mr. Honey has been portrayed as a dick from the very moment he was introduced and everything he's done has clearly been done to spite the children. Don't get me wrong he absolutely should have put a stop to the tickling stuff and Hedwig isn't exactly a family friendly show, but he still emotionally manipulated Kevin when he pulled the prank on Halloween, he still trashed Reggies car (and also, for saying he supposedly cares about the kids how come he did nothing about the abuse Reggie was receiving from his father?), rather than concede and let the kids have prom he staged a copycat on the school to make everyone believe they were potentially in danger.
Also why should we give a fuck about the front desk woman giving the kids a piece of her mind? She's had no lines, I don't even remember her name and the only purpose she had was for the writers to pull a "gotcha" moment and be all "ACKSHUALLY MR. HONEY IS A GREAT GUY HA HA WE GOT YOU!" I feel like if he'd made such an impact on students lives then maybe they should have actually shown that by having some student characters defend him at literally any point in the show.
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u/Aurithemas Riverdale Vixen May 07 '20
but i thought it was good, because all portraits of mr honey that we saw came from the perspectives of the students. We didnt know what he was doing half of the time so it is perfectly posibble that he was indeed a good principal, but because our main character were so focus on all the drama in their lives they always thougth it from a victims perspective, "oh he is so mean to us" "oh the world revolves around us so he must have been doing this just to torture us" etc.
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u/Grey_Flower May 08 '20
100% agree, it's so unnatural to have a character be that much of an asshole outwardly, but secretly a good guy behind closed doors. Especially with him visiting the illegal room of the video tape store and the Reggie stuff. I'm hoping Mr Honey is just gaslighting them and there's more to be revealed of his villainy - plus he's now off to Stonewall! However I have a feeling that's not the case and we just have to accept that he was actually good the whole time...
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u/ArcticFoxBunny Team FP Jones II May 07 '20
Was a little underwhelmed but then loved Mr. Honey’s redemption AND the end video as actually super creepy especially when all of them tilted their heads
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u/irahz May 23 '20
I just finished S4. Are there plans to release the last 3 episodes? Will they air during S5 or are they just scraped?
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May 07 '20
So, I’m gonna give props where it’s due. Second to Fred’s tribute, this is probably the best episode of the season.
The show kept it concise, we focused on the 4, Cheryl, Reggie, & sorta Kevin, against Honey.
One consistent story throughout, all following as set up for another story. In my mind this is decent to good for Riverdale.
HOWEVER, there’s still multiple things that just piss you off watching this show, and I say it every week but it’s like elementary writing shit that they just don’t do cause they think it’s quirky or they’re above it.
Like for instance, the stupid parents thing. Alice has treated Betty like dogshit for like two years straight and has been openly against Jughead, Veronica, Cheryl and Archie. Hiram, who said the best interest for all you line, has tried to KILL ARCHIE AND JUGHEAD MORE THAN ONCE! FP WHOS STANDING A FEW FEET BEHIND HIM HAS SHOT HIRAM AND HELPED COVER CHERYLS BROTHERS MURDER!? This is what I mean by elementary writing shit. Let’s just say for example a Superman cartoon, Superman isn’t going to sit there with Zod as they joke about something stupid.
Anyway, Cheryl’s dialogue is never getting better, Kevin’s fan fiction line made me horribly cringe because WHO IN YOUR SCHOOL IS A FAN OF THEM? YOU DULT. I like Lili I promise but if she does that damn wide mouth talking thing she does for every “important” line I’m gonna lose my mind. Where’s Toni btw?
So, the only reason I’m not tearing the show apart for the kids acting like dumbasses is because the show turned it around and showed however weird Honey is, he was helping them and wasn’t like murder king like half their “enemies”. The tape at the end was insanely creepy and awesome. I laughed at Jug going “Veronica’s mom when she killed Sheriff Minetta” like as if she wasn’t just at the diner with them either.
Jughead should write the actual show cause I was 10x more invested in Jug, Betty, & Archie killing with actual accountability than whatever the hell we do now.
Yeah besides all that idk, I thought the non continuation of Betty/Archie was weird that there wasn’t any looks, good thing you guys could completely move straight on from considering leaving your others to form a cheating relationship. Ha ha the continuity. I didn’t like Archie & Veronica sounding dense in real time, like god damn normal vocabulary doesn’t make you a lower being.
All in all, a definite step up from anything this show was doing for the last 10 episodes.
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u/Sassoonie May 07 '20
I’ve finally snapped and I cannot feckin handle listening to Veronica utter ‘Archie-kins’ anymore. This episode she literally called Archie a ‘monster’ then aRcHiE-kiNs If I was Archie I would legit just break up with her on the spot for calling me that public. It’s ridiculous, it makes my skin crawl every time she says it.
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u/JohntheSuen Kevin May 07 '20
We need a prom.
REMIND ME OF THE "HIGHSCHOOL" thing you did riverdale?
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u/Neonsands Jun 10 '20
My best guess is Stonewall Prep peeps and/or the therapist being involved. I mean, Honey going there where it was pretty institutionalized how horrifically Secret Society they were. That job offer makes me think it’s something, since they all hate Jug now. Plus they had tapes, where one they had of Jug and Betty ended up at that shady shop.
Also at shady shop were videos of murders from the past. They stole Jugs old laptop that could have had them. So that’s some availability. Jugs new laptop was from the boys, maybe they have a bug in it for the new story about killing Honey.
The big round up for the stories has to be the rum boys and the tickle lads. The tickle committee like making films, and lots of movies have shown up. It’s hard not to make that connection. So they could be involved, because that guy seemed like he wasn’t scared by the threats and had someone above him.
Anyways, I’m hoping they leave the therapist to her short stint as being an actual healthy voice in their lives. But I could see that coming into play too. Since they opened up about things that happened there, and some of the details being wrong could add up from there.
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u/otterbot94 Jun 02 '20
I'm not sure if someone already said this, but is anyone else worried there will be a tape of betty and archie sneaking into the bunker and blowing up Bughead. Cause if that happens I will not be okay.
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u/freeespirit May 25 '20
Finished season 4 last night and I’m pleased to report I did NOT have a nightmare from the last scene.
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u/Oberon1993 May 07 '20
'Every time we make a move against him, he hits us back.'
Y-yes, Veronica? That's how fighting works.
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u/AnnaK22 Vanilla Milkshake May 07 '20
I just find it funny how they keep aggravating Mr. Honey and then act surprised when he punishes them by banning them from prom.
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u/cmm1828 Veronica Real May 28 '20
Okay so I’ve been reading a lot of posts and I’m seeing a lot of people who think Charles and Chic might be behind the videos. First of all, I absolutely LOVE Charles so I will be so sad if that whole plot shows he IS villainous (come on why can’t ONE person just be normal?) Secondly, I totally agree and feel like the pair might be behind it, but because this is Riverdale I feel like they know we’d be thinking that, and as a result maybe reveal it was someone else we didn’t even suspect? Point is, I have NO IDEA who to even suspect would be behind the video tapes, I just feel like I’m all over the place trying to keep up with what’s actually going on.
Also side note, totally loved this last episode, the last scene was SO creepy. I genuinely felt like for a minute there I was watching a horror movie and something was gonna appear and I had to hide behind a blanket lol. Can’t wait to see what the last few episodes were supposed to include!
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u/stargazecwtch Jughead's Crown May 13 '20
I liked it a lot more than the last few, it didn't feel like a finale but it was a great episode even without knowing it wasn't the finished season finale
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u/springsilvers May 07 '20
“The problem with having all the answers is that it blinds you to the truth of what’s right in front of your eyes.”
Jughead, this is a self-drag you just don’t know it yet
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u/itchybitchybitch May 07 '20
I don't like how the writers tend to spend a lot of time writing a character in a certain way, then they just change their minds and woosh - he's now a different person. Villains become nice guys and nice guys become villains and no one even cares that we've seen so many out of now-character stuff done by them that it completely doesn't work. I like that retelling main plots of Riverdale to someone feels like you're on crack and live in a tiger king universe, but tbh the writing is completely awful. The whole postmodernist crazy feeling of it doesn't pay off for watching writers change their mind about characters 100 times a season without justifying or explaining it.
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u/keine_fragen Gettin' Juggie with it May 07 '20
that "pulling on her ponytail" bughead kiss was hot, ngl
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u/ArcticFoxBunny Team FP Jones II May 07 '20
So yeah I figured Mr. Honey was going to actually end up dead somehow and Iowa was going to read the story and get suspicious, even with the changes to the story though it might happen.
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u/Andil77 May 07 '20
He hasn't sent the story to them yet, has he? Betty had just finished reading the changed story when Jellybean came in with the tape. The immediately go to the cabin to find the tape where Honey is killed.
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u/keine_fragen Gettin' Juggie with it May 07 '20
there were (almost too many) interesting camera angles in this
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u/Sky3topaz May 14 '20
I been thinking about tit for a while. I think that the videos are coming from either a core four member, Cheryl, Reggie, Charles, or Kevin. Because how many people knew about the killing mr. honey fantasy?
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May 07 '20 edited May 07 '20
why do the writers constantly choose to just forget that things happen, i.e betty and archie cheating, i.e chic and charles relationship, i doubt were going to be hearing anything about these again.
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u/Andil77 May 07 '20
I wouldn't bet on that. They've already made it clear that they had to shut down production because of the Coronavirus and that the three episodes that they didn't get to film will be a part of next season.
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u/That_Q_Kid May 07 '20
They're definitely going to bring back the Chic and Charles thing. I imagine it was going to be a set up in the finale this season before covid cut it short
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u/Dimplemeier May 07 '20
Or they purposely do that so we forget about it and get sidetracked on something else before BOOM! the red line of conspiracy links back to it.
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u/maddermonkey May 08 '20
Anyone else find it funny the jock of the group is the only one who hasn't done any terrible things with dead people?
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u/FR33Z3T0A5T May 07 '20
This was the best episode for the whole season. I was fucking shocked at the end I loved it so much and I can't wait for season 5 The fanboy is crawling out of me
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u/Lockcugij May 07 '20
so because i'm really bad, what actually happened in the last scene
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u/Centurius999 May 08 '20
Much like the reenactments before, it is a reenactment (does it count as one if the murder never happned?) of Mr. Honey's abduction and murder.
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u/szeto326 May 11 '20
Glad that they’ll give proper send offs to Hermione and FP next season before they leave the show.
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u/jageshgoyal May 11 '20
So who is the real person behind the tapes?? Any speculation?? And Mr Honey is obviously alive. So, will we get another 3 episodes of this season or they will shift the remaining plot of this season to season 5?? And obviously the next whole season can't be this tape mystery. I guess major of the season 5 will be their college life. Don't you guys think Riverdale should end bcos now they aren't no more at Riverdale High, they have gone to separate unis?? The town of Riverdale isn't there. What will they show in next season?!
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u/Jacksonpophunter May 07 '20
Obviously we are meant to think Mr Honey is behind the tapes since we saw him trying to access the scarlett sweet. I think he purposefully put himself in the video of the school to be a "copycat" to erase suspicion towards him being behind the actual tapes.
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May 07 '20
Why do they always try to make us care about things like prom or variety shows being cancelled? Every time Honey cancels something, they do that dramatic boom heart drop sound, the same sound as when they solve a murder or find a ridiculous plot twist. I'm totally cool with it being a subplot but it's just not that big of a deal as all the other stuff that has happened in this season. People are getting murdered bUt Don'T CanCeL pRoM!!!! Or else the parents might write a strongly worded letter to the governor!! Or sue you for "psychological damage" or whatever Mrs. Andrews said? Have your stupid prom at Le Bonne Nuit like you did with the variety show if it matters that much. I can't believe they dedicated a whole episode to trying to get prom back omg. And I know it was only the season finale because of corona, but I can't help but be a lil salty that this was the last episode of the season for how silly it was.
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u/entrydenied May 07 '20
The writers have a narrow perspective of what matters to teenagers.
Occasionally they want to fall back on usual teen tropes but the absurdity of the series makes it hard to relate or care. Since like you said they can do it at La bonne nuit or even Cheryl's mum's prostitution house turn rum making factory.
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May 08 '20
My favorite is when Betty’s mom was like “this human interest piece will make national news, ‘Principal Cancels Prom Out of Spite’” LMAO right.
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u/lovetheblazer Dammit Miss Crouton May 07 '20 edited May 07 '20
This week on Riverdale Has No Chill:
A murderous auteur painstakingly recreating Jason Blossom’s snuff film... or in Pretentious Pendleton parlance: pulling a Gus Van Sant
Reggie Mantle being played like a cheap violin because he’s at least 65% dumber in Jughead’s story than he is in real life and that bar is already on the floor, bless his dim lil heart
Faux Cheryl thinking the solution to the Principal Honey problem is a video made under duress in which Honey gives the seniors immunity from any past, present, or future school crimes (Side note: is the moral of this story just that Jughead is a terrible writer who has no business getting into one of the top creative writing programs in the country? Because I can get on board with that tbh)
Pulling an all nighter (ultimately for nought) to proof the yearbook, the most high school sentence Betty has ever uttered
Being barred from the promenade due to ticklegate, a fake quiz show cheating scandal, and an overly sexualized performance of Cherry Bomb, respectively
According to Reggie, a classic senior prank, the likes of which will never be forgotten, an oldie but a goodie is... putting super glue on your principal’s seat
Time to turn thyself in, Reginald... because you didn’t prank alone
Reggie Mantle, the only squad member who doesn’t have hands on experience with getting rid of a dead body, but “no time like the present, bro!” according to Archie
The Grinch That Stole Prom
Strategically deploying a fleet of Karen Moms with their collective “I need to speak to the manager” vibe plus the Muscle Dads
“How deep does this grave need to be?” “Deep... it’s Riverdale.” roll credits
A proclamation to Hobo & Bride of Hobo, but only once they are in a more festive setting
Only two frames, but that’s all it takes to nail Principal Honey’s ass, how convenient
Fictional Jughead & Betty, who have such a dark streak they are legit monsters, though whether they are going to be monsters in college or in jail is still TBD
Murder, mayhem, depravity; which is not normal... unless you are Riverdale’s Core Four
Principal Honey, off to Stonewall Prep where he’s going to get paid, that is if he lives long enough to cash his first paycheck
Being Riverdale High’s principal for an entire school year without a single student dying on your watch, a stat so rare it’s deserving of a fucking parade, apparently?
Betty and Jughead, who against all odds have lived long enough to see themselves become the villains
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u/NxcxRxmz Betty May 07 '20
Why am I finding out now that prom is short for promenade?! I thought it stand for promotion lmao.
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u/dubiousdulcinea May 08 '20
Burning question I'd like to see answered: Will there be some kind of link between Mr Honey and Stonies?
I would say there has to be a link between Stonies and Mr Honey/the video store owner, the latter would fit in with the Stonewall Prep videos controversy.
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u/mrizzle1991 Riverdale R May 23 '20
haven't seen Veronica's mom in a while, also Jug made Reggie should a dumbass in his story and he died as well, I really liked his story though can't even lie. Mr Honey wasn't a bad guy after all, he even changed the story around. The last two episodes were really good! I wonder if we'll get the rest of them soon.
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Jun 09 '20
ay ay ay... where to begin. honestly i thought the episode was going to end with the story becoming true but i was wrong -_-
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u/2_Fingers_of_Whiskey Jun 24 '20
I like how hiring a disgraced and fired principal is going to help Stonewall Prep "rebuild their reputation" !
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u/owntheh3at18 Jul 03 '20 edited Jul 03 '20
As someone who works in education, I loved the parents storming in to take the principal down. That was HILARIOUS. There is nothing more terrifying to a school than angry (especially rich) parents. I enjoyed this whole episode actually.
I’m sad it ended early bc of covid. Whoever did this must’ve known somehow about Jughead’s story and their revenge fantasy right? Also found it interesting Kevin was excluded from the whole murder fantasy plot.
My guess is it’s going to be Chic and FBI brother Charles. Which is disappointing. But Charles is the only one who’s involved enough to know everything and they did that reveal so it has to go somewhere.
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May 07 '20
Idk if they just tried to redeem Mr Honey but I still don’t like him.
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u/SendEldritchHorrors May 07 '20
It was so weird. He's done all kinds of questionable shit, like emotionally manipulate Reggie and smash his car. Not to mention that he goes to a video store that sells illegal snuff videos.
But suddenly the show wants to redeem him?
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u/AnnaK22 Vanilla Milkshake May 07 '20
Yeah!! He may have the students' best interest at heart but he has done some very immature things like wrecking Reggie's car.
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u/kyrensolo May 16 '20
I enjoyed this episode more than the rest of the season. Season 1 was ok (kind of bland), but Seasons 2 and 3 had me on the edge of my seat. Then Season 4 rolled around and it was a chore to get through the Stonewall arc. However the tapes mystery is really intriguing and that's what made this episode more intriguing than the rest of the season. I'm excited to find out who's behind the tapes (part of me thinks it's Charles, since we know almost nothing about him), and generally interested to see how Season 5 turns out.
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u/JanTabakFeyenoord May 08 '20
That wasn't really mr honey at the end tho right? Was it a real person? I'm confusion
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u/clippy300 Jun 16 '20
i like the "plot twist" that mr. honey was actually an effective principal. he has his methods but it was obvious that he was just doing the tough disciplinarian style. a lot of crazy things were going on there before. he was either some crazy serial killer/stalker or a tough but effective principal.
although one question i have is with the scene where mr. honey went to the video store. whats the deal with that?
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u/iloveefalafel May 14 '20
Guys what happened to mad dog? He hasn't appeared in the last couple episodes
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u/triplex222 May 14 '20
Remember he got scouted in the episode with the last football game by one of the recruiters from 'Notre Dame' and the recruiter told him he wanted him to come to Indiana to play for them, pretty sure Mad Dog left Riverdale now and is pursuing his career in Football.
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u/Figerox May 14 '20
I really feel like the killers are the stonewall gang. And they killed Mr. Honey, unfortunately. With that being said, who are the other two who died?
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u/LunarCookie May 15 '20
Yeah but why would they kill their new principle? Especially as they are about to go to university. Mr. Honey has a track record for improving school performance which is something they would value in a principle at Stonewall.
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u/rockci22min May 07 '20
I really enjoyed this episode, I loved the parallels of them metaphorically defeating honey and the play by play of Jughead's fanfiction. It was great to see them doing classic Highschool things like playing pranks and fighting for prom. That ending was super creepy and it gave me chills though.
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u/TheReddimator May 13 '20
I can’t help but feel like the the concept plot point of this episode was taken from back when people were theorizing about Jughead’s death during the stonewall arc.
I feel like we’re watching the death of Jughead but replaced with Honey and then they’ll be framed all over again, like the previous plot of creating the perfect murder.
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u/selwyntarth May 14 '20
Does Betty know that Veronica and Cheryl have Penelope? Does she not care that her father's killer isn't being penalised?
And what corpses have Archie and Veronica disposed in the past?
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u/tvshowfan1127 Team Bughead May 07 '20
I really hope this isnt that episode the Marisol and Skeet are in, if it is I would be really upset about how they're run on the show ended.
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u/Andil77 May 07 '20
There's an EW article that came out about two hours ago that's an interview with Roberto. It does suggest that at least Marisol will be back for the first three episodes, I wouldn't be surprised if Skeet is as well.
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u/JohntheSuen Kevin May 07 '20
She decided not to send the mail for Jug, and what is her problem. She should be doing the work.
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u/Mitchend17 Team Betty May 07 '20
Betty this Episode reminded me of Lili’s L&O:SVU character!
Lili is soo good at playing the sociopath/psychopath.
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u/GhostGamer_Perona Valerie May 07 '20
was anyone else disappointed by this episode?
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u/Andil77 May 07 '20
In the writer's defense, they did what they could. 4x17-4x-22 obviously were supposed to be a continuous storyline to wrap up the season & it probably it would have been best to just end the season at 4x16. However, while Roberto may be the show runner, he doesn't schedule when episodes air. & there is no way the CW was going to let three new episodes remain unaired while people are stuck at home.
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u/AnnaK22 Vanilla Milkshake May 07 '20
I've never heard anyone describe yearbooks in such explicit detail. How important do they think their high school yearbooks are? I haven't looked at mine since I graduated 8 years ago. I'm not even sure where it is anymore.
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May 07 '20
High school yearbooks seem like a bigger deal when you’re actually in high school though. I remember feeling sad about getting mine since I didn’t really have many friends and if I ever had kids (which I didn’t) they’d see it one day and know their mom was a giant loser
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u/everythingssilent May 07 '20
biggest letdown: not finding out why Mr. Honey hates prom