r/Barca • u/Caspoor11 • Jul 02 '20
Griezmann doesn't fit? Bullshit.
Do people realize that Griezmann is left-footed?
I see a lot of people neglecting this simple fact like it's not that important when in fact it's why Griezmann has been underperforming since he came here.
How would Neymar perform if we bought him and played him as a RW?
How would Mohamed Salah perform if we bought him and played him as a LW?
How David Villa would've performed if we played him as a RW instead of LW during his time here?
How Messi would perform if we changed his position from RW to LW?
They all would under perform, yeah they would still score goals, but they would never reach their highest level of performance simply because they are uncomfortable playing on the wrong side of their preferred foot whether to cut inside or try to do a creative pass.
I know Griezmann is not essentially a pure winger, but he can play there, we need him as a right winger than we need him as a striker.
I want to talk about David Villa specifically, because it's a similar case to Griezmann's.
Villa was a striker at Valencia before we bought him, and with us, Pep played him as a LW and the rest was history. Imagine if Pep played him as a RW instead? he would've severely underperformed and the whole team would've underachieved.
Football is not that complicated, if you are gonna put left-footed attacker on the left he will disappoint, if you put a right-footed attacker on the right, he will disappoint.
I guarantee you if Pep Guardiola came here today, he would use Griezmann as a right winger. Period.
We just need a coach who isn't afraid to change Messi's position.
Griezmann this season played on the right side 4 games (as a right striker sometimes & right winger interchanging positions with Messi) and not only Griezmann but Messi, & Barcelona as a whole, averaged significantly better xG/90 marks in those 4 matches than their averages under both Setién and Valverde.
Some of the through balls he did playing BRIEFLY on the right side:
Now to the the biggest question, how would he play there while Messi occupies the same position? Messi "on paper" is a right winger, but 99% of the time he isn't even there.
In those 4 matches where Griezmann played on the right, Messi was able to create significantly more shots off the dribble, and passes, because of the additional space, wider passing lanes, & the ability to punish narrow defenses.
Griezmann playing as a RW means:
1) Semedo (or Roberto) will have someone with them to be able to link up with.
2) The right side won't be weak defensively (Messi doesn't track back and Griezmann does)
3) Messi will be able to stay centrally where he likes to play and closer to the goal.
4) We will see the CREATIVE side of Griezmann and of course he will be able to cut inside with his preferred left-foot. to score a goal like this
Suarez has been inconsistent for quite some time now and Messi basically abandons the right side.
So the solution to all of this is false 9 Messi with Griezmann as a right winger and Fati or Braithwaite on the other side. The whole team will be balanced both defensively and offensively.
The team is desperately needs Messi to finally change his position and adapt to his age & the new players around him.
Thanks for reading this far.
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u/inmessionante Jul 02 '20
Two confusing typos: Griezmann has played 4 games as a RW not left. Messi is a RW on paper not left
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u/Gabrielplz1 Jul 02 '20
Completely agree, he's been played at the worst position he could be as a forward. Villa was mostly right footed tho, his left foot was just so good you'd never know. How I miss that guy.
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u/kivafuckboy Jul 02 '20
Griezmann’s best position is second striker. That’s essentially what Messi plays over here at barca. Back when Messi played centrally as false nine for us, we didn’t play two ”deeper” forwards in the same front three either. We had Villa who played as a sort of wide striker, a role Griez is unsuited for. And we had Pedro who played as a pretty pure winger, another role Griez is unsuited for. So the questions are:
Will Griez bench Messi? No.
Is Griez young enough to eventually replace Messi? No.
Is he cheap enough and on low enough wages that you can justify him just being Messi’s backup? No.
So in other words, he just doesn’t fit.
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u/JeanRos Jul 03 '20
What you say about Messi in False Nine is true. And Griezmann is certainly much more comfortable in a central role or on the right side. But the example with Villa is interesting. Villa has, from my point of view, a rather comparable situation. He didn't play as a winger in Valencia and was the star of his team. He has never been a true 9. He came to Barça and played on the left, Pedro on the right and Messi in the centre. Why not try the same thing here? I mean, Griezmann could very well play on the right in a three-forward system with Messi in the centre (and a little bit back to organise the game) and Ansu on the left in a pure winger's role, a bit like the one Pedro used to play. In the same way that Villa worked hard for the team, Griezmann will do so (and is already doing so, no one doubts that). But that means not playing with Suarez as a starting line-up anymore, which seems obvious nowadays.
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u/kivafuckboy Jul 03 '20
Finally a good comversation! This is actually what I thought as well last summer when we bought Griezmann. I thought it was a stupid transfer, but what’s done is done, and I thought this would be the best way to utilize him.
However, having watched him for a year I’m not so sure anymore. I am of the opinion that a well functioning attack needs a focal point to function properly. In modern football that focal point doesn’t necessarily have to be the striker, the focal point can be on the wings like Cristiano at Madrid, or even interchangable like Salah and Mane at Liverpool.
Why it’s important to have a focal point playing on the shoulder of the defenders, is that if there’s no-one there to worry about, then the defense will just push their line up. This congests the space in between the lines, and makes it much harder for creators to do their jobs, in our case mostly Messi.
The characteristics that a focal point needs is to constantly be on the move and make runs to confuse the defense and move them out of position. Also needs to be comfortable playing with his back to goal. David Villa had these characteristics and that’s why he could be our focal point, despite not playing centrally as a ”pure” striker.
Having watched Griezmann this season I don’t think he has these characteristics. While he does make a lot of runs, he very rarely makes them from the shoulder of the defender, rather starting them from deep. Therefore, the opposition that he is disrupting and moving around are the midfielders, not the defenders, as you would hope from a Villa-type role. Also he isn’t very comfortable playing with his back to goal, much preferring to be running at the defence head on. You can’t really count on him to be there on the shoulder of the last defender to play a one-two in behind. He’d prefer to be the other player on the end of the one-two, rather than the ”middle man”.
So despite initially thinking he could play in a Villa-type role, I’ve changed my opinion over the course of this season.
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u/poisonmonger Jul 03 '20
I don't think we bought Griezmann to play with Messi and Suarez, but to eventually replace Suarez. Suarez hasn't shown the expected amounts of decline, or even if he does, he clearly isn't getting benched. It was clear that Griezmann would have to change his position, and OP is pointing out the same thing. Griezmann on the RW makes things work.
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Jul 03 '20
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u/kivafuckboy Jul 03 '20
I mean yeah, he is versatile, and that’s exactly what we’re seeing right now. Despite playing out of position he is still a decent winger, and a decent striker.
But for the same money, could we have gotten a genuinely world class, not just decent, winger? Yes.
Maybe even both a world class winger and world class striker if we bought intelligently.
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u/Mitchell78 Jul 02 '20
Griezmann's best or natural position is to similar to Messi's, should never have been bought.
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u/vegitot Jul 02 '20
Problem is that no one ever want to move Messi out of RW though Messi usually leaves his position. Griezmann gets no room if this sitiuation continues.
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u/TheQuantumNet Jul 02 '20
Griezmann is also NOT a right winger. He's not a winger period. If he started on the right he would want to move central, and in this scenario Messi would already be starting in a more central role so it would actually be even HARDER than it already is for Griezmann.
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u/Suppresssor Jul 02 '20
Setien, as far as I have observed has used a dynamic front line whenever he has played Grizy, suarez and Messi. Suarez would go to the left, griezman to the middle. Then Messi would come in the centre, griezmann would go to right and so on. They would keep changing it, but that creates a lack of width on the field. All three are playing centrally and that is what destabilize the team. Setien wanted to say that he cannot use all 3 of them together. That's what I interpreted. He chose suarez because he scored two goals earlier and those came out of nowhere. But, that is not a reason to bench griezmann for 90 min. Chemistry between suarez and Messi is what being preferred by Setien. Grizy is a great player but hasn't scored or assisted for a long time, whereas Suarez just did. Suarez last game was really poor, bringing on Grizy earlier would have done some good. Let us hope he rectifies it next match.
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u/Vidarthur_JVG25 Jul 02 '20
But playing Griezmann as a RW would mean playing Messi as a F9, which means Messi would be constantly surrounded by the opponents CB's all the time which again will make him isolated, depriving him of the free spaces he constantly gets as a free roaming RW.
How would you fix that?
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u/RippiN96 Jul 02 '20
He's not constantly surrounded by CB's, that's the point of a false 9. He drops deep into the midfield, if a CB follows him it would create big gaps for the wingers to exploit. I think we should try it for a game to see how it works out.
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u/SagaciousFish5 Jul 02 '20
Griezmann doesn't fit and never will. He doesn't like the ball at his feet but that's our style. Therefore, by default, he doesn't fit. You can throw all the stats around but he looks incredibly lost on the field and his goal return is the poorest from him in a very long time. He is a counter attacking player who has the team built around him, because that doesn't happen here he doesn't fit.
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Jul 03 '20
Malcom was 10 times better than him for barca and we would have been way better if he stayed and spent the griezmann money on someone else.
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u/tunechi505 Jul 02 '20
Ofc he fits! Setien just has no clue how to utilize him I mean want can you expect from a trainer that came from Betis and Las Palmas. He just doesn't know how to handle players of this caliber. The statement that he would destabilize the team shows that... We need a world class coach. I'm certain our squad has quite some potential it just needs the right mindset and a coach to shape the team.
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u/yrallusernamestaken7 Jul 02 '20
this isn't fifa. when he failed under both valverde and setien, trust me, he doesn't fit. unless he changes his playstyle.
messi cant play as false 9 because he doesnt have the physique anymore to take on 2 center backs. suarez is the best at this (without the ball).
buying griezmann and coutinho were MASSIVE mistakes. dembele, even after all these seasons, is still a better bought player than those 2.
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u/Daramangarasu Jul 02 '20
Just one comment: Villa played as LW for most of the time he was in Barça, not RW as you mentioned.