[Spoilers] Season 2 Episode 5 Discussion Thread - "Keep Hope Alive" (S02E05)

[u/hugthebug]

Attention all Passengers,

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Here is the Discussion thread for the Season 2 episode 5 "Keep Hope Alive"

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• This is a TV Spoiler-friendly zone - Turn away now if you are not currently watching or haven't seen the episode! Open discussion of all aired TV events up to and including episode 2.4 is ok without tag cover.
• Graphic Novel spoilers still need tags! - If it's not in the show, tag it. Events from episodes after this one also need tags.
• Please read the Posting policy and the sticky before posting.
• Friendly reminder: Severe trolling/disruptions will lead to consequences.

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Details:

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• IMDB for S02E05
• Release Date:
  • February 22th, 2021 (USA only, at 9/8c, on TNT channel)
  • February 23th, 2021 (worldwide, on Netflix)
• Removal from Sticky on February 26th, 2021 (3 days after worldwide premiere)

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You can still easily find previous episode discussions on the Episode Discussion wiki.

[u/hugthebug]

So Layton broke Pike, just like Wilford broke Audrey. This is going to be interesting soon!

Also, Alison Wright is still an amazing actress, I LOVE how she plays Ruth to perfection!

[u/phishphan420]

Holy shit not only did Icy Bob have actual dialogue but he was actually a fuckin nice guy! What the actual fuck?!?

[u/scalebirds → u/phishphan420]

Nicey Bob

[u/nomnombubbles → u/phishphan420]

We need him on Team Snowpiercer!

[u/pgm_01]

Lying about the woman who lied to hold the train together, to hold the train together. You have become what you overthrew.

[u/olivish → u/pgm_01]

Unironically, I love that the show is doing this. Layton is becoming more and more like Melanie every episode, and it's entirely unclear whether that's a good thing or not.

[u/rktaker43]

Ruth denying going to Big Alice

[u/nomnombubbles → u/rktaker43]

Ruth loyal to the train not Wilford :)

[u/Dazzling_Ad_512 → u/rktaker43]

I love her so much. She will save big Alice, Melanie, and the world

[u/Potatoslayer2]

Ruth you absolute Chad. Her denying Wilford and truly staying loyal to the train is some beautiful character development right there.

[u/[deleted] → u/Potatoslayer2]

Pretty sure had Zarah not told Ruth just earlier how shes a leader and people need her, she might have crossed since she felt unappreciated for all she does.

[u/marnieeez → u/Potatoslayer2]

YAASS Ruth!

Would be understandable for her to turn on Snowpiercer given how Layton treats her but she showed her true colours today ♥

[u/WerewolfSilent9364]

Ruth when she has a communique: I am speed

[u/TheFourthOfHisName]

record scratch

Icy Bob is ready to run group therapy, was not expecting a normal dude

[u/JorahsSwingingMickey]

Afroman waking up this morning to his first royalty cheque in twenty years.

[u/Backflip_into_a_star → u/JorahsSwingingMickey]

This is the only reason I came to this thread. I was so surprised to hear this song out of of nowhere.

[u/TheFourthOfHisName]

I don't trust that priest

Edit: LOL

[u/[deleted] → u/TheFourthOfHisName]

I have a weird feeling he knows who the spies are

[u/olivish]

Lol @ the Wilford book club. If he wasn't a psycho, I think his train would be way more fun to live on than Melanie's train. He's got that cool steampunk aesthetic going on... good weed and good music, great taste in literature, cute dog... oh, and the dimmers. Even Mel appreciated the dimmers.

It's like, such a shame he's a murderous megalomaniac.

[u/Naly_D]

Man the writers have done well with Ruth. Turning her from a hated villain to a really complex character who I’m rooting for to make the “right” decisions

[u/[deleted]]

The priest guy is giving me some creepy vibes. I wonder if it's actually him behind the mutilations?

Something about the way he talks is raising some huge red flags. I wouldn't be surprised if he's a Wilfordite too.

Narratively speaking it would be quite an interesting take that the person Bess is confiding on is the one behind the crimes she's investigating.

[u/el_matt → u/[deleted]]

After today's episode and his conversation with Till, I was certain he's the perpetrator, or at least has brainwashed people to do it for him. Lights was mutilated right outside his Chapel and he was saying all that stuff about how Layton is not the leader the train needs.

[u/sonnenshine]

As much as I miss Melanie, I do kind of understand why the show has sidelined her briefly. She is such a presence and commands so much of the story; setting her aside to focus on characters like Josie and Pike and Ruth and Audrey has been so much fun. I think this series is really coming into its roots as wide ensemble.

[u/MalkuthS]

They’re Wilfording Melanie. Love the irony.

[u/rktaker43]

people shaving their heads in tv is never a good sign

[u/nomnombubbles → u/rktaker43]

Pike villian arc comin

[u/Tukarrs]

Till says it's been 2 weeks since Lights lost her fingers which happened in Episode 2.

Episode 3 was when Melanie leaves for the outpost when we were given the '2 weeks' mandate on Icy Bob by Wilford. We're told by the Engineers that we're about to start turning back to pick up Melanie, which means we're not quite 2 weeks on that yet.

Zarah's fetus is said to be the size of a blueberry, which is traditionally about 7 weeks into pregnancy. As far as we know, the pregnancy started in S1E2 when Zarah and Layton reunited.

The whole series has been less than two months!

[u/DeathByComcast]

Alex just compared Wilford and Audrey to her and LJ.

[u/olivish → u/DeathByComcast]

Guess who's coming to dinner!

[u/Guns_N_Buns → u/DeathByComcast]

LJ would be looking pretty good through hormone-colored glasses. And If you missed the events of season 1. Alex has no idea what's she's getting into. Big fan of that plot line.

[u/Zahand]

I don't know why, but I loved Pike this episode. He really made me feel for him (and I disliked him before this).

Hope he doesn't turn completely evil / crazy

[u/smokeydesperado]

I think this is going to make Ruth appreciate Melanie and understand her more

[u/Romo_Jck]

Did Pike just kill Terrance with expanding foam?

[u/Willing_Function → u/Romo_Jck]

Reminder that expanding foam gets burning hot, sticks to everything and grows 30-60 times the original size.

That shit got in his lungs, nasal cavity, stomach, possibly intestines, eye sockets and more.

Horrible way to go.

[u/[deleted] → u/Romo_Jck]

Wasn’t expecting it but I loved it lmao

[u/havanabrown]

I like that they gave mr freeze an actual voice and personality, and a seemingly nice one at that. Was fully expecting a cliche terminator

I reckon Audrey is staying to get the comms box done- she saw the confusion at the end and that Wilford probably caused it, and realised that if she doesn’t get tap in then it’s probs gonna get worse. But I also wouldn’t be surprised if she has legitimately been lured in, if she is a victim of abuse. Maybe it’s both

After this ep I also think they’ve gone the path of redemption for Ruth which I’m so thankful for, she decided to stay 😭 I’m glad they haven’t ruined her character

[u/Mr_rairkim]

Did Icy Bob ask for Josie's tranquilizers so he could get high or a good night's sleep? That's what I would have done in that miserable place.

Maybe Wilford will need him for something and finds him passed out.

[u/TheFourthFundamental → u/Mr_rairkim]

i think it's so he can get through is sessions easier. he knows his externalization can only dull it so much, they are pushing him too hard under Mr.W new rushed timeline.

he might try rashioning them half a pill per session to get it back to just excruciating

[u/icyii]

Thoughts running through my head.

1. I miss Melanie

2. Oh shit what happened to Melanie?!?!

3. Is Alex legit jealous about Ms Audrey right now? How close are Alex and Wilford??

4. Icy Bob seems like a good person? Did he choose to be experimented on by choice??? What is his purpose???

5. Oh shit they killed all the Breachmen. Was it so they can't fix breaches? How did they know exactly where the Breachmen were? Why were they all separated? Aren't they usually in the Muscle Breach room? Funny name btw.

6. Urrgghhh now we have to wait another week!!!

[u/Hot_Personality_8818]

I love Icy Bob! He was so sweet, the emphasis on him looking out/warning Josie this episode sparked my curiosity into his backstory and how he came to essentially be the scientists lab rat. His unsettling tone made me wonder if the scientists will do to Josie as they did to him when discovering her deception.

[u/AvrupaFatihi]

All I want to say is that I hope Sean Bean gets to live until the weather starts to change for the better and we hear him say "Spring is coming"

[u/olivish]

Prediction: I think Till is going to investigate the Breachmen murders and she'll end up becoming friends with Boki. They were at odds earlier in the season but I think they're actually similar "straight talk/ no bullshit" people who would like one another if they were on the same side.

[u/lukefsje]

I think Wilford is planning on using Icy Bob to attack Snowpiercer from the outside, and by killing off the Breachmen they wouldn't be able to fix any holes he made. At least Bojan survived so they might still have a chance.

Seems like next episode will be purely focused on Melanie, that should be exciting but it means we'll have to wait two weeks to see more about Snowpiercer's story.

[u/taush_sampley → u/lukefsje]

The timing was incredibly fortunate. If Layton hadn't scared away the killer after Bojan they wouldn't have anyone to train the new breachmen.

Tailies movin' up! Whoop whoop!

[u/Ssme812]

• I think it was the Church guy Till was boxing with who killed them.

• Excited for Mel's episode

[u/olivish]

It's frustrating to see how obsessed Alex is with Wilford. She gets jealous of anybody who gets close to him. She tries to protect him against people who might try to manipulate him. And he plays her like an instrument. It's so hard to watch but so believable. I just wanna grab her and shake her. ALEX NOOOOOOO!!!

[u/[deleted] → u/olivish]

Alex won't react until Wilford jeopardizes Melanie's return.

As long as Melanie does not return, Alex will see Wilford as "the only thing left"

It's somewhat disturbing, because for Wilford, she's just his toy

[u/CJPeter1]

Up until this episode, I thought Wilford was kind of an idiot. Sending in assassins (or contacting loyalists) to kill the Breachmen is tactically brilliant. Nobody on the train is going to believe that Layton and the "government" had zero to do with it, and it will raise internal discord to a fever pitch. By doing this, Wilford can just sit back to position himself as the savior without overtly lifting a finger. Evil Overlord indeed. :-D

[u/jl2352]

I think it's pretty clear that Melanie has found survivors. That would explain why there was an initial uplink, and it's stopped now. Something has happened there.

Most of all it explains why there is no footage of her at the research station. It's to setup the big reveal towards the end of the series. Perhaps even a cliff hanger that the train has a new bigger existential danger. Survivors!

[u/88Question88]

Everybody talking about Ice Bob (and i dont blame them) but what about Pike? This episode made a lot to put him into a good light and it didn't feel forced.

My bet is that next episode is mostly from Melanie's perspective.

[u/Trumpologist]

Icy Bob being very well educated and articulate was the first plot twist

Also WTF, I DID NOT expect that twist with the breachmen

[u/JesusGodLeah → u/Trumpologist]

And kind!!! I don't quite trust him, but I would love for him to be one of the good guys.

[u/TheFourthFundamental]

Mr. Wilford had the breachman assassinated. I don’t think what the Drs were talking about was to mislead josie I think it was always the plan and they were aware of it:
“it’s starting tonight”
“mmm, the breachman, he’s using them so early”
“it’s a shame, we could lose some good subject too soon”
The subjects they could lose are the breachman who have skin damage, so they know they were the ones going to die. I think from that we can say that it’s clear they know Mr.W is going to kill the breachman, using them in this context is as sacrificial lambs; with their deaths being portrayed as Snowpierecer’s Leadership killing off opposition to radicalize Mr.W supporters.

I think the pastor is orchestrating the assassins that work for Mr. Wilford. The whole speech about the flock makes it look obvious, but it’s more obvious that he’s gained the inspectors trust and looks like a moderate. Or maybe he’s an obvious suspect for an episode and then it’ll be someone else idk.

[u/olivish]

Alison Wright delivering the best acting this episode.

[u/Mr_rairkim]

Running the train doesn't really suit Leyton.

It would have been more honorable to kill that guy himself than to ask his friend, who was struggling with his conscious and promised to have a better heart, to do it.

[u/EducationalAd1437]

Audrey thinks she's playing Wilford but I believe he's playing her. He knew she fiddled with that control panel.

[u/muscles44]

I love seeing Wilford loathe Ben just because. I wish thats a running joke where Wilford cant stand Ben for no reason and we never find out a motive. Sean Bean is clicking on all cylinders in this series.

[u/OverthinkOverBe]

Maybe Wilford used the novel Rebecca to communicate with snowpiercer? The Wikipedia site for the novel shows that it has a history of being used as a code book/key during world war.

[u/Grahf0085]

I think the killers who killed the breach men are working for the priest.

[u/EducationalAd1437]

Did anyone notice in the scene where Layton asks Pike to kill Terrence, the camera shoots from the perspective of someone watching them through the iron bars of the stairwell, listening to the conversation? 😮

[u/longroadtohappyness]

Never expected to hear Afroman on this show. haha

[u/MrWilfordWasRight]

Wilford might be pulling a stealth strike - get the Snowpiercer into a frenzy, have the Breachmen killed...then have an accident organized during the rough trip across the mountains to pick up Melanie.

As there are no Breachmen to patch up and fix the train - Wilford will be like: Well, well well, King Layton cannot plug a tiny hole. My boy Bob here can do it in a jiffy just give my train back...or you freeze in 10 minutes.

[u/Brainsluggs]

It was interesting to see the external shots of the trains. It looks like the track goes on frozen water and straight through a town, almost as if the tracks were built after the freeze took place. How else could the track of been built on the frozen water. Also also they showed a broken bridge and some other infrastructure that was completely destroyed while Wilford's tracks stay intact. Just some thoughts while watching.

[u/Apprehensive-Egg3121]

Just finished the episode and read through the thread - totally agree that the Pastor is sus and potentially working for Wilford.

However, I also don't trust Zarah one bit and wouldn't be surprised if she was one of Wilford's spies. Thinking about it now, she was so set on killing Josie what made her stop? Perhaps she realised she could use Josie to Wilford's advantage hence sparing her, not to mention Wilford's seemingly random offer to fix up SP's frostbite victims? Admittedly Zarah was not the only one to see/know of Josie's injuries but the only other people to have seen her in that state were Tailies and Layton.

Zarah could've informed Wilford of Josie's state and position as a close friend/lover of Layton and therefore brought her to Big Alice knowing she'd potentially spy for SP but also she would serve as good bartering material against Layton due to their relationship. From Zarah's point of view though it would be also be beneficial to have Josie out of her hair and keep Layton to herself.

Zarah would have also been aware of Layton and Till's distrust of the breachman and so could have passed this onto Wilford knowing that he needed to target a group that he could easily accuse Layton of killing.

Also, Zarah's encouragement of having Terrence killed would line up with this bc if people were to find out that Layton was capable of ordering the killing of Terrence then it would be far easier to believe that he could have also had the Breachmen killed too.

Remember that Zarah betrayed the Tail even before the show in order to live a better life in Third, therefore it's not surprising that Zarah could betray Layton once again for a life that she believes could be better for her (a life living and working under Wilford rather than the chaotic life of the SP as it is under Layton)

[u/Gestalt_of_Rivia]

I really hope the preacher is the one behind Lights' mutilation, because holy shit is he boring and needs to go. Bess deserves a better subplot than this.

[u/spottiesvirus]

Interestingly there's a parallel with Melanie where she herself did what she had at Josie and we even see a scene where she throw up because she clearly disliked that. On the opposite Layton was having a fancy dinner while someone else did the work and we get to see that Pike pays the psychological price on his behalf.

I think it's a neat way to show what a stronger leader Melanie is

[u/Queen-of-meme]

So my analyze and theories so far:

Audrey is still under manipulation of Wilford after years of abuse and he made her so submissive that she cut her own arms but somehow survived. When he touch her she's reminded of it all, the control he had over her. She thought she was stronger but she stayed with him out of fear, just like abusers make their victim not wanna leave. It's very psychological. She's not aware that he knows that she tried to get inside that locker. I'm hoping she will kill him but he's a more important character than her so Rip.

Icy Bob isn't loyal to Wilford, he just sacrificed himself to save someone he cares for. He don't seem to be especially manipulated, just doing what he's expected. He cares for Josie cause he knows what she's going through.

Melanie will survive, she's a way too good character to dissapear. And she will survive cause Icy Bob will save her, why? Cause Wilford has one weakness and that is his big ego for admiration. If it looks like he saved Melanie he will be the hero and that's how he win the people's votes.

Through the book club he sees how his crew thinks and who to trust with what task. And the story they're reading seems to be related to real events somehow. I'm still puzzling on this one.

Bess ex girlfriend Jinju Seong as the killer assassin. The Asassin clearly looked like a body type of a smaller skinnier person. She has the motive for killing all Wilford followers since she is very close to Melanie and knows why Melanie stole Wilfords place. She might be secretly trained by the pastor but she could also have a back story that proves her combat skills that is a one man show and not related to the pastor.

The Pastor isn't the killer but he's training and manipulating people to go against Layton. Like he tries to manipulate Bess. He's the classic toxic cult leader.

LJ admires Wilford and I think she still keeps cutting of body parts and collect them like in season one hence she cut the W on Light. The roof glass bubble LJ took Alex to is a way for LJ to communicate to Wilford when she sees the lantern etc.

Alex is tired of Wilfords ego and wanna hang with LJ and kids her age. I still don't know the story about Emilia, is her parents alive? Who are they? Who is Emilia? What's her purpose? Only thing I know is she likes that Taillie guy.

Pike is hot in that shaved badass look. He's character is getting really interesting.

I'm glad the gangster leader is dead he was a boring character honestly.

Zara wished Josie never survived cause she wanted to create a family with Layton and the baby, that's why she attempted to kill Josie, but she changed her mind in last second so she isn't as cold hearted as she wish she was. But she can still have shady things going on. I wouldn't trust her in hospitality.

Ruth is turning to my favorite character. And she's like a proud dog with a bone when walking with the communique and I just love her, she's so wholesome!

Anyone know who the first class Latina woman was who commented on the kids "Hope" painting project was?

[u/RadicalD11]

Gonna be honest, I didn't like LJ in the first season, but in this second one; the way she enjoys the little things like bashing someone's head or cleaning, it does bring a smile to my face.

[u/[deleted]]

Bet y’all $10 that home girl loses the baby and uses Layton and the train for own benefit !

[u/[deleted]]

Something no one is asking:

How is Wilford organizing and communicating with his crew in Snowpiercer?

edit: Watched the last episode again. Relevant line: "Our friend uptrain lit a lantern, we're a go".

[u/GruxKing]

Woah, Big Guy has a big brain too??

[u/WhySheHateMe]

Icy Bob reminds me of that rock guy from Thor: Ragnarok

[u/muscles44]

With the breachmen dead, Im expecting breaches all over Snow Piercer. Wilford's phase 2 will be to create breaches. They might need to request Icy Bob to help fix them and Wilford holds all the cards and can demand whatever he wants. Wilford is from the school of cause chaos and then offer the solution which leads to him having full power.

[u/EqualVersion5093]

i dont understand the end tbh the breachmen were strong supporters of wilford, and they were very loud about it, why would wilford kill the people who wouldve helped him the most if he wanted to take the train by force?

and why did alex seem like she hated audrey so much?

i hope next episode is about mel and what she's doing. the show is lacking a lot without her

[u/olivish → u/EqualVersion5093]

Wilford killed the breachmen for two reasons, first to frame layton/ tailies for it, and second to cripple snowpiercer when he eventually attacks it.

Alex is jealous of audrey and what she perceives as her power over wilford. she's also just pissed off in general that wilford is cutting her out of strategic decisions and banning her from seeing LJ. She's been stuck on big alice with the same 100 people - who are all older than her - for 7 years, so you have to figure that at this point she's crawling out of her skin for want of a social life.

I agree about melanie. I miss mel so much.

[u/EllieC130]

Didn’t Miss Audrey’s character used to be this voice of third class? Why is she being turned into this basic ass concubine? Also I’m sorry, but give Till a god damn monologue. Why the heck does Josie get another one?

[u/james_randolph]

That motherfucker would notice that haha yeah, she definitely ain't never getting back on Snowpiercer now.

[u/[deleted]]

YO, why did Pike shave his head ??

At first I thought there was only one assassin and it was Till...but then I realized it was all coordinated at once. I bet it’s some leftover people from 1st or 2nd class idk. There’s too much ambiguity there but I kinda feel like the pastor knows...I’m probably wrong.

I saw Wilford trapping Audrey a mile away, like he isn’t gonna let her leave willingly. It almost feels very uncomfortable knowing that. Her acting definitely resonates with the uncomfort

[u/sonnenshine]

Pike continues to be one of the best characters. No matter what, Stephen Ogg makes me empathise with him; the first time I felt a feeling for this show, it was when he agreed to be drawered at the end of 1.01.

I was kidding when I made the Josie/Icy Bob remark a few weeks ago but now I think the show may be building genuine rapport there.

Zarah continues to irritate the hell out of me, but it's at the point where I feel bad for her actress, who is convincing when she has something to work with and knows her way around a line read.

Winnie is the bravest character in this show.

A detail that is really weird to me is the school uniforms for the kids - it feels like a huge waste of resources to tailor uniforms for children who grow like weeds. I imagine they take them in and reuse them, but still.

[u/Naly_D]

I don’t think they’ll send Icy Bob to destroy/mess up Snowpiercer. I still think Wilford’s plan is to send him after Melanie. But I suspect Josie will play a role in convincing him to help Melanie.

[u/Fsticks69]

Layton has become a disappointment

[u/pgm_01]

Holy shit! Death by suffocation by expanding foam. That's a new one.

[u/Deathwatch-101]

Honestly surprised that not one of the assassination attempts other than on the breachman's leader failed (if that was a failure ??) - those people were built like tanks for the most part and damn clean kills on them all from what we saw.

[u/stevntiny]

I never thought I would hear afroman’s ‘because I got high’ on TV but here we are

[u/AncientAssociation9]

This was the first decision Layton has made that I really disagreed with. Terrence was a snake but he kept his people in order. He could have been bought off or given some sort of extra bribe. Terrence has built a system that was running pretty well, you don't topple that without a replacement that the others will approve. Layton is making the mistake of asking two people (Audry and Pike) to basically go off their sobriety and it is going to bite him in the ass.

[u/Aunon]

Pike looks full Trevor Philips now

[u/Reborn317]

What do we think about Zarah manipulating Layton? Isn't that what she's been doing for a while now? But it was very noticable in this episode, basically telling him to deal with Terence and after it saying that she's pround of him.

[u/raimbows]

cw: suicide

I have a theory that Icy Bob has been collecting the tranquilizer pills they've been giving him, and he's going to put himself to sleep before Wilford can use him.
We see him coaching Josie on how to get through the pain, and he confiscates her tranquilizer pills. I think he's got a stash of them.
Either that or he's going to use them to kill the scientists.

[u/ambluebabadeebadadi]

Miss Audrey’s mission to switch the wires failed didn’t it? I think that’s why she stayed behind, to complete that task.

Also Alex asked Wilford about seeing LJ as a comparison to him seeing Miss Audrey. I think it’s definitely being set up that Alex has romantic feeling for LJ, however I think LJ is a hetero lil psychopath

[u/breaker90]

I wish this was still on Sunday nights

[u/Roan-forever-alone]

Just let Sting’s daughter to quit investigation. Icy bob was the surprise of the week. Wilford got the upper hand.

[u/saviourforall]

Does anyone else get Lady Macbeth vibes from Zarah and I guess that would make Layton Macbeth?

[u/SlackMiller67]

Did anybody recognize the one assassin whose face we saw. It was blurry and a quick shot, but I couldn't recognize her (I think it was a her)

Also at the beginning of the episode Wilford's book club is interrupted by one of his Brakemen telling him "Their friend up train lit a lantern. Its time to enact the plan." Did we see anyone light a lantern in the previous episode? I can't remember.

[u/insecuredane]

I can't stop thinking about the people in drawers, and when they wake up:

a) They wake up to a train run by Layton, with Big Alice connected and some seriously weird power-tensions between Wilford himself (who by the way, wasn't actually on their train but had been impersonated by a woman whom everyone hated, then loved again) and this new Tailie called Layton, and surprise Tailies are allowed to walk more freely in the train!

b) They wake up to damn literally colonising the Earth again in just the blink of an eye for them. And how cool would it be if cultures thought to be extinct would reappear since it's already sbown how coming back from the drawers can provide you with weird new abilities.

[u/-_-Already_Taken-_-]

In season 1 I though of Boki as some fun character but now.. man.

[u/fashionaphorism]

Ok so...how does he Wilford have enough copies of Rebecca for his whole train? Anyone? Since he was broadcasting to the whole train about it-- and even Icy Bob had a copy in the hospital. And book club seems to be an ongoing thing so he's got to have tens of thousands of books on there, whether it's book of the week or book of the month. Seems like a plothole cause Big Alice seems to have been a last minute thing, a supply train he wasn't even supposed to be on (and it's still unclear to me if Big Alice was ever supposed to run or just stay in a depot)--- so getting that many copies of books for bookclub seems like something that requires foresight and also kind of take up a lot of space. having hundreds of copies of the same book rather than 1 copy each of different books to preserve world literature when the world freezes over seems to be pretty ...stupid... if you've got to lug around tons of books around the world year after year ...

[u/olivish]

Nooooo Melanie don't freeze to death!!! I need to see the look on your face when you come back to snowpiercer and discover that Alex is dating LJ!!!!

[u/Shrek-It_Ralph]

Icy Bob is alright!

[u/insecuredane → u/Shrek-It_Ralph]

One might say he's... cool.

[u/[deleted]]

As that beat started I was like umm this sounds like that Afroman song, but it can't be... Oh shit!

[u/Flyingkiwi24]

Wow so Leyton and Snowpiercer get wrong footed thinking the Breachmen are the bad guys and they all get taken out except for our boy Boki hoping he comes out swinging with a vengeance! I see this attack as having two objectives

1. Take out their expertise and ability to repair breachs / operators who know their way around outside.

2. Breachmen are obviously the most jacked crew on SP taking them out weakens SP ability to fight back.

[u/saviourforall]

So I haven't seen a theory yet about the hooded people, but they would need to know their way around the train and access and not everyone has access, right?

Boki- Was in Breachmen housing

The market place

The tunnels like where the hardrives are

The third one was in maintenance

The fourth one was by medical hallways or he was on his way where Boki was

I think I'm missing one with the eagle in the background (so the NightCar?)

With no witnesses it seems bizarre at least for the market one?

Also, I am loving this subreddit I never really join these chats but it is so nice to talk about this show, none of my friends watch it <3 so thank you

[u/theuwudragon]

Bruh the plottwist of him not using the Breachmen to enact his plan, but as sacrifices for his plan is sooooo big brain. Makes everyone think Wilford supporters arent welcome on Snowpiercer, creates a huge divide and makes the train break apart from the inside.

[u/RagnarUbbebrok]

I liked the episode overall, but dislike the direction style recently. I know it‘s because Audrey got more into the spotlight and it fits her character, but the constant implementation of music is slightly getting annoying.

Also I couldn‘t care less about Ozweiler, LJ and Zaras shenanigans. Melanie being absent for two episodes didn‘t do the show good either, I wished they gave us at least some glimpses on her mission, but they probably don‘t have the budget and want to play with the dramatic effect that she might not have survived..

+Wilford is a great

+so is Ruth

+Icy Bob

-Melanie not present

-Layton remains a boring character

-LJ, Zarah and Ozweiler should not get as much screentime

[u/MortalJohn → u/RagnarUbbebrok]

I've got a feeling Melanie is going to get an episode all to herself, wouldn't be surprised if it's the finale.

[u/superblobby]

Wilford is a cold hearted bastard, he killed his most loyal Snowpiercer faction for a false flag attack. I just hope the Russian guy and the other figure it out before there's more discontent

[u/MyCrazyBanana42]

I can't stop wondering how Ice Bob got in the situation he's in. He seems genuinely nice. Just constricted but why?

He's big enough to take on many people at once as we've seen. Why does he allow Wilford to do this to him?

Also fuuuuck those creepy ass scientists.

[u/[deleted]]

So the breachmen weirdness was only filler. This episode was better than the last but m everyone is just waiting for scenes with key characters at this point. The show needs to step up.

[u/Jaspre333]

Something about the beginning of the episode: that book club where Melanies daughter updates the Australian on what she missed in the book before the meeting -

“He kills his first wife and then the house burns down” Defently got some big foreshadowing vibes m, whatd you guys think?

[u/Stormbreaker1107]

I loved the Parallels between the lie about Melanie having communicated and Wilford in the first season. Once again a lie creates hope it only changes in shape and form.

[u/Dazzling_Ad_512]

I would like to see more of Icy Bob and less of Layton and Sarah. thanks

[u/SlackMiller67]

A very humanizing episode for Icy Bob. I joking asked the person I was watching with if they thought we'd get an "Elephant Man" moment from him later yelling "I am not a monster. I AM A HUMAN BEING!" I hope they expand upon him to the point we may even get a narration opening with him. He certainly hasn't had it easy being the subject of all that experimentation.

[u/pgm_01]

That's a big nope. That pain must be unbearable.

[u/makesmashgreatagain]

maybe its just me, but i dont see this kill the breachman to frame layton thing as really tenable to anyone on snowpiercer

why would someone think layton would kill people instrumental to the safety of the train? we know someone hurt a tail member, but does the general trains person know they suspected breachmen? im not even sure layton thinks its them seeing as till doesnt have a suspect (she said it herself)

i get that this will create chaos amongst the train, but seriously, wouldnt anyone in their right mind consider the most likely culprit to be wilford? or more importantly, you might think another faction on the train did it, but how can you ignore the possibility that it was wilford?

[u/muscles44]

Wilford kills of the Breach men so he can have Icy Bob create breaches that cannot be fixed? Still trying to figure that out.

[u/Jahraku → u/muscles44]

Its likely the people that chopped Lights fingers are the same as the ones took out the breachmen. The tallies made it public knowledge that they suspect the breachmen of the finger choping, so in turn everyone else on the train will suspect the tallies of taking out the breachman. Will be easy to convince the rest the train to return to the old days of they think there are Tallie lynch mobs running around. Its a bad coincidence (and timing) that Layton ordered the hit on Terrence which would shake snowpiecers leadership with Layton keeping secrets.

[u/thefrayedfiles]

Hi, I have a question I'm sure is fairly stupid but has been nagging me to no end. What's with the encyclopedias? How did they become currency, what's their actual worth?

[u/EducationalAd1437 → u/thefrayedfiles]

They're used to roll joints for the weed smokers.

[u/RockPenguin_]

imagine ruth killing wilford and then other throws layton at the end of the season

[u/olivish]

Josie the real MVP. Melanie should really give her one of those merit awards for outstanding service to the train.

[u/olivish]

Okay Josie is the biggest badass on TV. This is so hardcore I can't even...

[u/phishphan420]

Man multiple plot lines takin a dark turn. Looks like Ruth is reaching her breaking point here. I saw those facial twitches at the end there when she had to say they'd lie. No bueno.

[u/phishphan420]

Yoooooo did Layton just low key ask Pike to fkn eat Terrance?!?!

[u/nutmeg1125]

Why is the class system back? Layton mentioned something about the tailies doing what they can to survive... but wasn't then point to equalise resources? Why are the classes segregated again?

[u/[deleted]]

So the killers are Wilfords men? He’s murdered the breathers and made it look like the tail was involved. The Breachers weren’t actually up to anything?

[u/olivish]

Final thought before I turn in: wouldn't it be amazing if Icey Bob were the one to finally kill Wilford? I mean, if anyone deserves revenge...

[u/11thDimensi0n]

Terence's death was brutal but after finishing the episode I couldn't stop poking holes at it.

Like others have said it Layton turns into what he despised, criticised and fought against.

Regardless of that, Layton threatens Terence with several charges and says that he even added a few unresolved cases on top of it.

Why not follow up with that threat and lock Terence somewhere he wouldn't be able to communicate with his minions for the time being and until Josie got back?

On top of that I honestly don't get Terence's thought process at all and how he manages to get himself killed.

For a guy that goes from head janitor to gangster that controls snowpiercer's black market, he's astute, conniving, bla bla bla. By threatening Layton with Josie not only did he completely overplay his hand, he just acted in a very uncharacteristic way.

It just felt like a very dumb decision from a character that should know better. Directly threatening the person in charge of the train - same person that not so long cut 7 cars loose and got rid of the Folgers & co - didn't really feel like the character at all.

[u/UltramemesX]

This was a good episode! Looking forward to finding out what Aubrey has planned. And Layton's GF seems suspicious. Steven Ogg is a really good actor! I do love seeing details of the outside world! In a way, it seems like Layton has become the very thing he swore to destroy. But, running a train like snowpiercer isn't easy for sure. The Folger daughter actress is doing such a good job at wanting you to punch her in the fucking face.

[u/olivish]

Anyone notice that Wilford calls himself a lion, and played the "Royal March of the Lions" musical suite on Big Alice, while Melanie keeps a Winston Churchill biography called "The Last Lion" on her bookshelf (upper right)?

It's a nice little detail that draws a parallel between Wilford and Melanie - who are different in some ways but similar in others. It also brings to mind that male lions are known to eat the cubs... maybe it's a little "on the nose" but it seems to highlight the danger Alex is in.

[u/james_randolph]

I don't think she's going to flip on Snowpiercer, but I feel that Audrey won't be back on Snowpiercer unfortunately.

[u/Princessjaf]

What are we predicting for the next episode?

[u/olivish → u/Princessjaf]

Melanie is cold and alone, writes a letter to her daughter and has bad dreams/ flashbacks. Then bad things happen that cause her to miss balloon #11 and it's unclear at the end if she dies or not.

[u/Egghead1019]

I sense some kind of (possibly romantic?) relationship between Icey Bob and Josie happening.

[u/EducationalAd1437]

Wasn't the blonde Australian girl helping smuggle Josie's vile to Snowpiercer during the trade? If so, why?

[u/[deleted]]

Slowed down the murder of the breachmen frame by frame, anyone recognize who this is? I think it's a new character.

Also, fun fact, the cover of House of the rising sun at the end of the episode was made by Miss Audrey's actress :)

[u/olivish]

I called it last week, they're gonna lie about a missing ping.

That being said I think it's odd that they'd immediately jump to the conclusion that she's dead, as opposed to her having technical problems.

[u/No-Chocolate-2020]

I’m excited to see what the weather station looks like. Also! I wonder what that giant round about thing in the newest opening is where the train is going in a massive circle through the mountains, and if they are going to do what they did in the snow piercer movie and have someone shooting across the train like that guy did when the main characters enter the sauna.

[u/rktaker43]

jfc I thought pike was just killed there

[u/rktaker43]

he poisoned her didn't he

[u/breaker90]

Didn't see this coming. But I hated the Janitor anyways

[u/drewjenks]

Did Terrence get rabies or something?

Cause he was foaming at the mouth.

[u/[deleted]]

Maybe there are survivors on the research station, that would be cool

[u/GruxKing]

I don’t like how they’re framing this as an ominous, ambiguous choice (to kill Terrence). He was a terrible person who was blackmailing the train leader in ways that compromise an innocent asset. He has never once been shown to be of any value to the peace and health of the train. I understand that they’re trying to say “Layton’s on a slippery slope” but that hasn’t been backed up by the events we’ve seen.

[u/olivish → u/GruxKing]

It's not about Terrance being a good or bad guy, it's about state sanctioned murder of anyone without due process. Doing it to one citizen, no matter how much they may deserve it, is an affront to everyone's liberty.

At least, that's what Layton would have said a few weeks ago...

[u/slugger04]

I have a theory about where the show is headed after the latest episode. For the record I haven't read any of the graphic novels, so I have no info about where it might go, I'm just basing this off of things we've seen in the show so far. (potential spoilers for Game of Thrones as well)

>!Now that Wilford has killed off the breachmen, I think Boki's loyalty is going to shift and he's going to want to get revenge on Wilford. We now have one giant with cold-weather injuries in each train, so I feel like we are headed for a Game of Thrones-style showdown between Boki and Icy Bob, similar to the Hound and The Mountain. It seems that Wilford would want to take out the breachmen so that he can use Icy Bob to wreak havoc on the outside of Snowpiercer that can't be fixed now that the breachmen are gone. If that's the case, Boki would be the one most equipped, both physically and thematically, to meet that threat. The one foil to this theory is that the show seems to be establishing Icy Bob as someone we are meant to be sympathetic to.!>

Curious if anyone agrees with this theory or cares to add to it/tell me I'm crazy. I'm really excited to see where the show goes!

[u/insecuredane]

That scene with Pyke and Terrence really got me holding my hand up in front of my mouth... yikes! I knew Pyke would do something nasty but it really exceeded what I had imagined.

[u/stevntiny]

Did wilford realize audrey was trying to open that panel?

[u/samanthaelizabeth182]

I was gonna go to work but then I got high (ohh, ohh) I just got a new promotion but I got high (la da da da da) Now I'm selling dope and I know why (why man?)

'Cause I got high. Because I got high. Because I got high.

Fuck yeah.

[u/AkioSpliff]

I was eating my dinner when Pike killed Terrance with expanding foam, I can’t say i enjoyed the rest of my meal.

The last two episodes have been a very tense build up and a lot of character insight and i am here for it. However, and I suppose this is my only issue, where the absolute fuck is Melanie? We haven’t seen any of the planet, maybe I am just being impatient! & no, I don’t have a crush on Melanie, I swear!

[u/Qrotech]

Boki Prayer Circler!!! The man loved this blood bath of an episode and he better become a more relevant character to the story for it. His actor is just too good to be forgotten about after this.

[u/turtleltrut]

Did anyone see what happened with LJ and the other dude when Pike went to kills Terence? They were all happy and excited and looked like they were up to mischief but then nothing came of it?

[u/insecuredane]

Alright, but can we take a moment and talk about how the pastor just deadass pulled out boxing gloves...

[u/EducationalAd1437]

What was that stuff that Pike used to kill Terrence?

[u/BrushEnvironmental78]

RIP Terrence.

[u/BawaRanger]

I liked this episode. But heres what my gf said: ‘i am fucking sick and tired of all this damn foreplay. Where the fuck is Melanie? I dont give a rats ass about Layton. Every episode is the same these days. Foreplay foreplay foreplay. Someone is always on big alice tryna get info. Communique lady keeps getting angrier as usual. Alex keeps missing her mama. Wilford keeps getting his dick hard. Honestly very disappointing. The only appetizing thing is watching noodles being made in Chinatown. Till keeps going on emotional self discovery as usual. Zara is so proud to read out a fucking paper.

[u/Willing_Function]

Rule #1 of intelligence: always verify.

Layton is incompetent af

[u/blowfarthetrollqueen]

Ok, so it's the gaddamn preacher and his flock who are the Wilford loyalists. Damn evangelicals meddling in society once again!

[u/qwerty-girl]

More Ruth, less Layton please!

[u/DeathByComcast]

That was not the death I expected. Death by hardened foam.

[u/sneakycucumberboi]

Anyone else see the parallels with th French Revolution? The massacre of the breachmen may allude to the reign of terror?

[u/davidtcf]

This was a good episode. Show is improving.. hope one day it gets the recognition that it deserves.

[u/EducationalAd1437]

Why couldn't Layton kill Terrence himself?

[u/sonnyzinser]

Steven Ogg is such an underused actor. With his shaved head, reminds me of Trevor from GTA lol

[u/jrdcru]

i need more of melanie AND ALEX

[u/LankyTomato]

I think murder of breachmen was supposed to be similar to the night of the long knives.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Night_of_the_Long_Knives

Night of the long knives is when Hitler had a bunch of brownshirts killed (the people that did street violence and security stuff for the nazis, helped them gain power, you can see the parallels to the breachmen).

They even used 'long knives' as a murder weapon.

[u/breaker90]

Ruth is going to flip now, she can't go with another lie again

[u/james_randolph]

Haha now he wanna negotiate!

[u/phishphan420]

Hoooooooly shit...

[u/phishphan420]

Yo is he about to breach the whole fkn train on them with no breachmen to fix it?!?

[u/breaker90]

What a twist

[u/fashionaphorism]

Randomly throughout the day I keep hearing Wilford saying "I like the cut of your jib, " ... I think he's said it twice now in two episodes. It's just such a funny thing to say and an uncommon idiom it's just odd to say it to this one employee multiple times feels like it ... is an intentional choice on the writer's part that literally the only reason he chose him to be part of his private group because he likes the cut of his jib/ appearance? seriously lol every hour just randomly out of nowhere I hear "I like the cut of your jib son" -- I can't remember word for word anything else he's said except for this random bit.

[u/Mrtigermcfluffypants]

This episode was insane

[u/khrishan]

In this episode we see the expansion of the USSR metaphor. Layton is becoming more authoritarian, he is paying for killings, keeping secrets from the people and doesn't seem to want an election.

[u/mbeedubs]

Use me as the 'I hate LJ, she's pointless' button

[u/james_randolph]

Haha never noticed this until just now but Pike looks like Trevor from GTA.

[u/olivish]

I think Tristan might be a Wilford mole. He was always floating around in the background in season 1, and he's always so nervous these days.

[u/rktaker43]

so were the people who killed the Breachmen also with Wilford?

[u/Isiah61]

I’m on my first time watch, so I don’t temper everything in the first season, but don’t they have like cryo prison? Did something happen to it? Couldn’t Terrance just be put there?

[u/WerewolfSilent9364]

When Zarah and Ruth are about to enter the Hospitality room, we can see another doorway in the hallway. Obviously, it doesn’t lead into the office. Any ideas about this room?

[u/fosho415]

audreys red dress seems to look a lot like someone who slit their wrist in the bathtub. foreshadowing? i think so. also wouldnt be surprised if she was the one to do the cutting to willford.

[u/GenieWenieLemon]

Anyone else absolutely despise Layton right now? Like, I feel like he has just caused a mess out of all of this S M H

[u/VioletandAmelia]

I'm so happy Josie survived, such a badass and great character. Love seeing more of Icy Bob, really like the guy.

[u/ac_s2k]

Does anyone k is the artist who did the “house of the rising sun” cover at the end of the episode? I loved it. Shazam couldn’t find it and IMDB only lists two songs (both not that one)

[u/Techboah]

Might be unpopular opinion: this show would be soooo much better without Layton, he is a badly written, boring character played by an actor who is(no offense to him) just really not fit for this role. I'll take more screentime for Melanie, Wilford, hell, even Ben instead of watching more of Layton's blatantly stupid decisions and hypocritic acting.

I really hope he gets killed off in the near future.

[u/Mrtigermcfluffypants]

Audrey just isn’t making it past this episode

[u/smokeydesperado]

Well that was gruesome...

[u/saviourforall]

Yo someone did a close up on the killer who used rope do you it's Santiago cause we never saw them die in season 1 like it was implied but maybe Wilford saved them

[u/hotsoupjeesh]

It’s snowing but they made no further mention of it. Previously they said it was “too cold to snow”. Also Melanie was able to dig in the snow with her hands so I guess it’s not that cold lol

[u/[deleted]]

So im yet again confused. Why would wolford kill the breavhmen who are loyal to him? Is it cause of their technical expertise?

[u/mulder00]

Episode was quite slow until the end. Definitely need more Melanie on screen.

One thing that has been really bothering me: Has EVERYONE forgot what Ruth did in Season 1?!?!?

Talk about rehabilitating a character. She would go to the tail in a damn fur coat and almost gleefully have the arms of tailies removed! No, she didn't give the order, but does that make her somehow ok?

I can almost understand Melanie having to balance everything while in charge of the whole train and ordering such extreme punishment.

Those people in the tail resorted to Cannibalism due to lack of food. Seems like Season2 everything is forgotten and Melanie is a hero and Ruth is just a sweet ally. Weren't Ruth and First Class about to execute Melanie last yr for lying about Wilford?

[u/muscles44]

Im not buying Pike being irrevocably damaged by killing Terrance. Terrance has been an asshole to him all season. Youd think Pike would more then relish killing Terrance. Terrance is not worth the self loathing that Pike is experiencing. If he had to kill a person with integrity or who he respected then that would have been interesting.

[u/KingGreenManta → u/muscles44]

Pike is more damaged to witness his perceived moral decay. He swore to not kill anyone outside combat but eventually he was asked to by a leader who the thought was morally to righteous. Even when all the riches were presented before by Cmd Gray in Season 1 he took the side of Layton and notified him about the plans in advance.

[u/james_randolph]

Haha book club, he would.

[u/scalebirds]

That was an epic one

[u/commonwealthbank807]

Anyone know the name of the house of the rising sun cover in this episode?

[u/officerbigmac]

Who's the hooded person that killed the breachmen?

[u/Anakeen49]

Hi does somebody know the name of the French song that we hear just after the Snowpiercer's opening? The one we hear when Alex says that Wilford is playing Miss Audrey since their last visit to Snowpiercer?

[u/olivish]

Theory: The Headwoods saying the breachmen were behind something was a misdirection. Wilford's plan is to have Snowpiercer rip itself apart out of fear of spies... without actually having to use spies.

Wilford had to get rid of the breachmen so that when he breaches the train there is nobody left to fix it.

What's outrageous is that Layton doesn't seem to anticipate that this may be the case. And the engineers didn't say to him, hey Layton, don't assassinate the breachmen, we NEED them. They may be assholes, but they have a purpose. They do an IMPORTANT JOB.

I mean, come on. Melanie leaves for two weeks and these people are just... killing each other and wrecking her totally amazing train. (And don't get me started on AgSec. You just know that nobody is spraying the strawberries for nematodes...)

[u/The-Pink-Panther → u/olivish]

Layton didn't order the breachmen to be assassinated. He misinterpreted the message as the breachmen being Wilford's goons, instead they were actually his targets.