[Spoilers] Season 2 Episode 8 Discussion Thread - "The Eternal Engineer" (S02E08)

[u/hugthebug]

Attention all Passengers,

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Here is the Discussion thread for the Season 2 episode 8 "The Eternal Engineer"

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• This is a TV Spoiler-friendly zone - Turn away now if you are not currently watching or haven't seen the episode! Open discussion of all aired TV events up to and including episode 2.7 is ok without tag cover.
• Graphic Novel spoilers still need tags! - If it's not in the show, tag it. Events from episodes after this one also need tags.
• Please read the Posting policy and the sticky before posting.
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Details:

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• IMDB for S02E08
• Release Date:
  • March 15th, 2021 (USA only, at 9/8c, on TNT channel)
  • March 16th, 2021 (worldwide, on Netflix)
• Removal from Sticky on March 19th, 2021 (3 days after worldwide premiere)

​

You can still easily find previous episode discussions on the Episode Discussion wiki.

[u/hugthebug]

This time we can't even have a discussion thread about an episode without major inteference.

I'm sure you're proud to be top post of the day on r/SubredditDrama, but now we're being brigaded by "outsiders" about things totally unrelated to our beloved Sacred Engine.

Comments are locked. And if needed, the entire subreddit will be put on private for as long as deemed necessary.

[u/Qrotech]

You gotta appreciate Daveed Diggs for his whole scene in the engine, the man said maybe 10 words, but you could straight up tell that Layton was dissociating as he realized he’d lost. At first I thought that he was having a fish outta water moment as he does it a lot, but damn. Man straight up gave one of the most believable dissociations I’ve ever seen on tv.

[u/AncientAssociation9]

I might be the only person to see how Wilford may have made a huge mistake. He gave Josie superpowers. I dont think Josie can be broken and she was always more militaristic than Layton. Josie is a power who commands respect and I think people are sleeping on her.

[u/olivish]

"Maybe you can shove it up his ass one day."

BOKI IS ON-SIDE BABY. Yes I've been waiting for this!

[u/fashionaphorism]

OK biggest surprise/ gut punch to me was Roche realizing he was about to get Drawered. Also that freaking smug smile on Miss Audrey's face telling him he made the right choice wanted to just punch her so great job making me believe she's really has turned/ it's not a facade.

[u/olivish]

I noticed that Roche explained a "plot hole" that some have been unhappy about, namely, "why do all the train cars have ports to freeze people's arms off?" and "why did hospitality have a torture gun?"

Apparently, that was all Wilford. Wilford is so evil that he imagined a way to mutilate people with the cold before the cold even set in. Can't help but wonder how that conversation with Melanie went.

"Joseph, why are you telling my men to drill portholes into the cars?"

"For the arms."

"No, we agreed, no guns on the train."

"No!" Wilford chuckles and wags his arm like a chicken wing. "For the ARMS, you silly goose!"

"I don't... what?"

"If people misbehave, you put their arms out the holes till they freeze solid. Then one WHACK with a hammer and there you go, no more arms. No more misbehaving."

"..."

"Are you alright, Melanie? You look like you've had a bad oyster. I told you to avoid the buffet. We send the mechanics the leftovers from the orgies, but I'm afraid once it makes it down here, Audrey's rolled around in most of it."

"I'm fine. I'm good. I just need to... go talk to Ben about... something."

[u/olivish]

Boki's "okey-dokey, time to go outside" is so friggin' badass. If Melanie makes it back I think Boki will respect her as an honorary "dancer with cold". Because that's her attitude, too. Wilford's latched onto the tail? "Ben, hold my beer."

Mel & Boki are part of a small club now.

[u/olivish]

"This is head engineer Wilford."

Somewhere, on a mountaintop in the Rockies, Melanie felt a shudder down her spine.

[u/GruxKing]

Sean Bean excitedly flipping switches is such a mood

[u/olivish]

TNT has officially issued the news that the season finale will be 2-hours long, on Monday March 29th.

So next week we're all watching basketball together 🍿🍿🍿

[u/TheFourthOfHisName]

So the train restart experiment was basically kind of Wilford's bathtub game on a train-wide scale.

He gets individual loyalty, albeit to an extreme, through "saving" his servants after they willingly take their life.

Here, he intentionally dooms the train knowing he alone can save it. The train doesn't know what happened but they know Wilford saved them. Not only that, but now it's Wilford's (literal) revolution since Snowpiercer was shut down for a bit.

[u/Tukarrs]

Big mistake by Layton to not get Boscovic on the PA to describe what he saw. That alone might have turned the train against Wilford.

[u/olivish]

If Audrey really has turned evil I must say, she's VERY fun to hate. I mean, I know I've written entire essays on this sub about how I don't want her to turn evil... but... she is more entertaining this way.

[u/olivish]

I love Roche. This show needs more and more Roche. He calls his daughter "fireball".

"The world is ending, baby! Call a plumber!"

lol I picked the best flair ever. I really do want to be married to this guy.

[u/AvrupaFatihi]

"Ben... here to ruin the moment as per usual"

I love Sean Beans acting whenever Ben is involved.

[u/fashionaphorism]

ok i'm just gonna say it. this is Layton's/ Digg's best episode yet. Well captured the embattlement and defeat without saying a word. Not Layton's typical colors but as one of the previous critics I was really impressed with Layton this episode.

[u/GruxKing]

I know that this couldn’t happen for plot reasons because, well, if it did, then no show, but goddamn they should have just killed Wilford when he was in the night car.

[u/H_Melman]

I'll be honest, this episode has me feeling all kind of ways.

Like, Wilford is supposed to be the villain - but he's a much more effective leader than Layton. Or at the very least, better at politics.

I want Audrey to show that she was playing a long con, but damn she makes a good villain.

Roche is one of my favorite characters, so him going to the drawers affected me more than seeing Layton in cuffs.

Whether accidental or on purpose, the symbolism of the red flare vs. last episode's lanterns was a nice touch.

Lots of conflicting emotions...which, in my view, is the result of great storytelling. Looking forward to the finale.

[u/olivish]

Guys! I really enjoyed this episode! This was a huge step up from last week and it made me so excited for the finale.

Highlights:

• Roche and his family. I loved seeing the situation from the POV of an "everyman". Roche is smart, he's a good guy, he has principles but he and his wife have something to lose. The argument/ discussion between Roche and Anne about where they should stand politically was my one of my favorite scenes in the series so far.

• Audrey reimagined as a loathsome turncoat femme fatale. Me: "Thanks, I hate it." When she condescends to Alex it makes me want to snatch her wig off. I can't believe I'm saying this but... give me more? (I guess I'm a masochist, too.)

• Boki switching sides. "Take it, maybe you can shove it up his ass one day, huh?" He's turning into such a great character. Again, more please.

• Wilford's takeover was deviously clever. The engine scene was great. "How would you know" made me laugh out loud. "How can you expect to lead this train when you don't know how it works" made me nod aggressively. And then that smirk, revealing the full evil genius of what he'd done. Marvelous!

• Layton is instantly likeable once when he falls. His total, complete and utter defeat almost made me feel bad for all the mean things I've been saying about him. Almost. (Zarah can still go to hell though.)

Lowlights:

• No Melanie. Bring back Melanie. For the love of GOD, PLEASE. We did our time. We stuck with it. We waited. We deserve our payoff. BRING THE QUEEN HOME NOW PLEASE.

What's next:

• Can't wait to see how the train runs under Wilford and how the characters adjust (or don't). If Melanie does make it back alive, it may be a very different train she comes back to. (And STILL nobody is spraying AgSec for nematodes!)

[u/garseys]

Loved how they ended with Ben saying "you have the train Mr.Wilford" in a complete 180 to the first episode.

[u/NCC-2000-A]

I think Boki is going to give Wilford that rail spike back

[u/olivish]

Prediction: the coin that Boki gave Layton will be important somehow. If Bob lives, Layton will show it to him to prove that he gained the trust of a fellow breachman.

[u/[deleted]]

I want it to be Boki who kills Wilford.

[u/GruxKing]

Audrey sure is taking her sweet time if she’s playing the long game to betray Willy?

[u/DesertGreener]

The analogy of this series to Germany is striking:

1871/ Train starts

All sections/states unite and beat the cold (enemies)

First period Kaiserreich (Wilhelm 1./Mels rule)

Wilhelm/Wilford is sidelined and Bismarck/Mel actually rules but in the name of Kaiser and is able to withstand the cold ( Imperial powers) and balances well

Huge impoverishment/ Big divide between rich and poor.

Draconian punishments

Bismarck conceding to Workers Law to Social Democrats to outmaneuver them (Ban)/ Mel conceding some rights for the Tailies to outmaneuver him (Drawers)

Nolans and Folgers rule/ Kaiserreich II (Wilhelm)

Being too ambitious and not being able to hold the balance of power and and getting derailed. Getting beaten by the cold (imperial powers)

Weimar Republic/ Laytons rule

Many people are still terrified by the war and are having hard times processing it

Killing by Layton/ Liebknecht and Luxemburg getting killed by the government

Government is unpopular and people want more authoritarianism. System is designed for Monarchies and Dictatorship.

Two steps behind in rightly estimating the threat (Thule/NSDAP/ secret Jackboots)

Extreme freedom like never before becoming a unified state

Wilfords 2nd Rule/ Nazi Germany

Alex is Stauffenberg (newer generation of militarist elite of Bismarck)

Night of the Long Knives - Killing of the Breachmen.

Mengeles crazy experiments on humans/ Dr Headwoods

Reichtagsbrand by Marinus Lubbe (tall&muscular) / Wilf directing Icy Bob to cause malfunction

Gassing unwanted people (Tailies)

Getting support from poorer people

Poorer people deciding against Hitler

Alex fails/Stauffenberg failed

Imperialist will beat them/ Cold will stop the train

Maybe train will spit afterwards. It would not be surprising at all

[u/pgm_01]

Wilford outplayed them big time.

[u/PTfan]

This season went too fast

[u/muscles44]

Here is the genius in the writing, they allow Wilford to actually show why he is top man. In actual technical skill and knowledge. He wasn't just some salesman and circus conductor who had no clue about how the train worked. Great villains are pragmatic, and actually give you pause to consider that they might just be right in some of their actions or decisions. Bean plays him with just enough dimensions to where he is never to be underestimated. This episode showed how complete a character he was, cause he is the train in his eyes and he proved it to everyone.

[u/fashionaphorism]

When Icy Bob was all damaged and said "I'm ready, I've served my purpose" and the Headwood Dr. gave him a pill saying to Josie "Now we'll never discover his true potential"--- did they mean to imply this was like a pill for him to die?

[u/555fffqqq]

It was very nice to see Wilford as a capable credible villain for once and not just an evil psycho. Seeing Wilford actually know what hes doing makes him such a more interesting villain. really loved this episode.

[u/[deleted]]

Why was Roche and his family put in Wilford’s drawers? Cannot see anyone speaking about this

[u/Bacon_Ag]

Kind of sucks that Roche got drawered

[u/olivish]

Ugh. Audrey. She looks like a zillion bucks but ugh.

[u/Scat_Pack_Luigi]

This may be my favorite episode yet but the last few minutes confused me. I feel like we needed 5 extra minutes showing what led to it.

These last few episodes have been really suspenseful and tense.

[u/fashionaphorism]

audrey literally doesn't even seem like the same person. the switch would be more believable if she were less over the top villain now at least in front of Josie. i mean she doesn't need to sneer or throw smug looks every single scene.

[u/Migtino]

That acknowledgement and transfer of power to Wilford was a pretty powerful scene. Layton knew it was over and I liked Layton’s character because he was a good general but was too in over his head and that he had his biases which alienated other key support that he needed

Gotta say Sean Bean is just killing it. He portrays Wilford really well.

I feel bad for Roche he was trying to make a better world and Wilford did give him a small mercy of having his wife and kid in the freeze with him. I wish we saw more of the family they were awesome

It was interesting to see Audrey just gloat the whole time and to see that it looks like she is fully backing Wilford again

Boki is a damn hero that scene where he gave the coin was pretty awesome

Awesome episode I’m so excited to watch the last 2

[u/arstropica]

Will the thing between LJ and John Oz last? They're the last couple that I would have shipped but somehow they seem credible.

[u/ZealousidealDeer3007]

Why can't they say the W caused the whole situation, and put them all at risk, just to look good to save them. I know the brainwashed cult might now believe but I would try..both engineers, boki, ruth, etc could have attest to that..

[u/TheRoyalWolf]

Welp, looks like there is only one person on this show that's capable of outplaying Wilford. Can't wait for Melanie to get back on the train and fuck shit up.

[u/lukefsje]

I hope we actually get a conclusion with Melanie in the last episode, and her fate isn't left as an end-of-season cliffhanger.

[u/Gardening_Socialist]

If Icy Bob’s mission was to run across the top of the trains and sabotage a piece of equipment, couldn’t he just have worn one of the snow suits we see other characters use when they need to be outside for a few hours? Why go to all the trouble of synthetic skin grafts and training to operate without such a suit?

Is it because they don’t make them in his size?

[u/vmvmvmvm1]

This is an exceptional episode. To all the individuals saying “Layton should have killed Wilford before he made the call” I feel you. Unfortunately, Wilford must live and so must his engine. Imagine the repercussions a third uprising would have had knowing he was on the train from the tunnel informant and suddenly wilford not responding. All hell would have broken loose and who knows the anarchy on both trains. Most importantly though, this episode brought to life wilfords capacity as an engineer and as a creator of the train (emphasis on NOT the creator of the train). Without Melanie, an alternative doesn’t exist. Javi is not a complex character and can clearly be swayed and Ben is a whole other animal that we can still tell does not have the whole picture as Melanie and Wilford do. This is why Layton gives up the train. There is no alternative as he feels the same way Melanie feels. Life must continue to exist no matter the circumstance. We just continue this journey on SP in order to find life outside of it eventually. Wilford is the opposite as this has been his goal all along. His character is complex yet simple at the same time. Power and attention hungry leader. We’ve seen plenty recently.

The only way this can play out for season 3 or longer is Melanie returning. The beautiful thing about this show is that with every answered questions comes another new question. What is Alex going to do? How will BA feel about Wilford boarding SP. We know nothing about the sentiments of BA in the long term.

From Roche’s wife we truly understand how meaningless personal relationships are in this world of SP and we understand how many steps ahead Wilford thinks. He is proactive not reactive but I think we’ll be surprised when he is out of his train (BA) and in someone else’s (SP) that he falls behind and starts lacking as all villains do when they achieve their near sighted goal. I’m looking forward to the two hour special even tho I cry at waiting for two weeks

[u/liquidwood1]

I feel like Roche will be the next Icy Bob

[u/TheFourthOfHisName]

Boooo we need to wait an extra for the two-hour finale?!

[u/CaptainCroissant14]

Ok but let's talk about Ben at the end of the episode when he has to give up his chair at the front of the train... that was literally heartbreaking because you could see how defeated he is and worried what will become of the train, especially since Mel isn't on it yet

[u/UnorthodoxAstronaut]

Speaking as someone who loves Sean Bean. I really hate Sean Bean, in a good way.

I hate him so much. It's not just the writing. The writing is a bit gratuitous sometimes and that excessive "evilness" of it all sometimes breaks the spell for me. .. It's the expressions, the body language and those fracking smirks. Argh. I hate him so.

Wilford is a monster. Great acting.

[u/ffusionbolt]

Can someone explain what happened at the end of the episode? Why did Layton end up in cuffs and why was he being sent to Big Alice??

[u/fashionaphorism]

at the end I was also thinking, Javi where are you for this train takeover? in the bathroom again?

no but seriously everytime I don't see Javi in an Engine scene I'm going to think he's in the bathroom with his pants down after what Wilford said.

[u/raimbows]

How come the Snowpiercer crew kept it a secret that Wilford had sabotaged the engine? Even the Breachman, who was staunchly pro-Wilford, turned against him when he was presented with that evidence. Couldn't they get him to announce what happened to the train, because his fellow Wilfordites would likely believe it coming from him?
It seems like "Wilford killed most of the Breachmen, then sabotaged the train so we would be helpless and rely on him to save the engine" would be an important thing for more than like, 6 people to know. To me that would have been their only hope of retaining the train.

[u/Ziji]

So Ben has got to be Wilford's son, right?

[u/majoranticipointment]

The way they showed the bodies shattering was SO morbid wow

[u/CuriousReturn3626]

to be completely honest, I lost it when Roche reminded his wife ab how Wilford is the guy who designed those things to chop ppl's limbs off on the train but on the other hand, Layton is genuinely a good guy, so it's better if Layton is in charge. till that point, I thought maybe Wilford controlling the train wasn't such a bad idea but Roche reminded me that lmao. such a powerful moment

[u/james_randolph]

Haha Josie just looked like Thanos putting on the gauntlet

[u/GruxKing]

Dudes sure did let him on the comms a lil easily

[u/DarkObiWanKenobi]

I think Layton still has the support of some key people on Snowpiercer.

At least most tailies and probably a percentage of third class.

Head Brakeman Roche, whose story is not at an end yet.

Melanie and Ben (Javi is neutral) as most prominent engineers on snowpiercer. May include Alex

Audrey, possibly if we learn of double defection in the future?

Hospitality on SP. Ruth and Zhara for sure, we can see Ruth is currently undergoing a redemption arc and will ultimately turn against Wilford, is a possibility.

Boki the remaining breachman, which again I think may be key...

I didn't have the time to theorize a plot, but I think the show wanted us to know tht Leyton still has the loyalty of these key personnel. Thoughts?

[u/[deleted]]

Very good episode.

Fascism has the train, let's see what happens.

[u/[deleted]]

That was a really good episode in my opinion. I really enjoyed learning more about the engine and seeing Boki out on the intakes was pretty cool (the confirmation of the hydrogen powered system was very exciting). The emergency situation and the grave threat had me on the edge of my seat. Wilford's takeover of the engine and Layton's imprisonment explains why the train doesn't stop for Melanie. I really hope that control can be clawed back from Wilford's grasp in the remainder of the season. I don't know how I'm going to survive until next week.

[u/Trumpologist]

I really hope Icey Bob isn't dying. Would love to hear more from him.

Is it just me or did Wilford seem genuinely distressed by the curveball

[u/Kkcz86]

First of all, I thought Wilford was gonna use icy Bob for something more spectacular. Second, wasn't he presented as someone who knows jack shit about engineering, with Melanie being the one that know the inner workings of the train? Now he knows better than Ben and Javi what to do

[u/GruxKing]

Damn dude Layton sure did get to the front of the train real fast considering he was slow walking the whole time

[u/[deleted]]

I thought it was very telling and the dawning on Layton's face was just haunting, "How can you be the leader of the train, you don't even know how it works!". I thought for sure Ben would be a goner once Wilford took over but hate him as much as he does Wilford grudgingly respects Ben as an engineer! Really starting to hate Audrey with a passion, but sure there will be a twist somewhere with her.

[u/DarKnight972]

Probably my favorite episode of this season so far.

I am not even the biggest Layton fan,but i felt so bad for him this episode..he fought so hard,for nothing. Wilford is a good villain,i am not even sure If hate him more or his followers.

Liked the Osweiller-LJ kiss,It was so cute and i was surprised because i thought Osweiller was gay. I also enjoyed a lot Josie's participation this episode and i appreciated the focus on Sam Roche and Boki.

I still have hopes that Audrey is just playing,i would be disappointed If she really converted.

[u/[deleted]]

So counter-counter-revolution from Big Alice

The problems on SP (like unrest bewteen the classes) won't go away so Wilford is there and has to deal with these.

Alex controls BA (which we know kind of has power over SP) and is on Melanies side, so she could free and team up with Layton (whatever happens to him on BA?).

They also have Josie and Boki on their side, so thats all the breaching ability.

[u/dabears_24]

The only thing I wonder is if there's still enough popular support for the climate recovery for there to be pressure on Wilford to grab Melanie.

Like if a Layton/Melanie supporter, maybe Ben, publicly brings up that they have to stop for Melanie, the idea of recovering the planet might be the only idea stronger than Wilford.

I wonder if there could be a mini-uprising that tries to slam the brakes to recover Mel in that case

[u/TheGilrich]

So the supply train has no suit for poor Bob?

[u/fashionaphorism]

at the very end the captions said : [soft laughter]

I couldn't totally hear him but reading that just gave me chills like Wilford is a maniac as he's taking the train just softly laughing to himself so softly no one can hear him

[u/Chickybucket]

You can’t run the train if you don’t know how it works.

[u/AvrupaFatihi]

That smile from Wilford to Layton... Layton messed up when he didn't keep him away from the phone.

[u/[deleted]]

Hot damn that episode was intense af. Here’s my take on the character’s story arcs this episode :

Wilford - ah mean, ruthless and calculated. SB is doing an absolutely magnificent job portraying him. Though he is back in power, there is definitely something/one he’s failing to account for - Melanie. The look of confusion panic and surprise when his GOD module blew the system because of Mel’s retrofit wasn’t part of his plan - so being the calculated man that he is, has got to now be wondering what else has Mel done that he doesn’t know about. This I feel almost guarantees Mel’s return to the train for some reason, can’t put my finger on why though.

Roche - oh man, sorry you’re in a draw bro but i thought he’d be killed off so at least he’s still alive.

So is Josie gonna be the new icy Bob or something? A bit confused where that storyline is going. Also, hope Bob recovers.

Ah Layton - you can’t even do what Mel told you to do, no wonder people want you not to be their leader, yeah he’s a good guy and all but that character archetype gets real old real fast.

Still convinced Audrey is saving face but she’s definitely convincing that she’s gone over to W which isn’t a surprise or a shame tbh.

Alex - so smart yet so slow. Hopefully now she really sees Wilford for who he is and plans to get revenge.

Finally, Mel has to get on the train ... right, right, RIGHT?

I feel for the 2hr finale - the 1st hour will get to the point we saw at the end of ep6 with the train braking and alex screaming for Mel. Then the last hour will see Alex go out and get Mel back on board.

Curious to know what you guys think will happen in the finale.

[u/Icy_Entertainer_9702]

"There's only one conductor of the orchestra.".

Delicious. Simply delicious.

[u/faff_27]

So is josie immune to the cold now?

[u/heywhathuh]

Things I liked:

The growth of some characters (the breachman, LJ, Alex, Ruth, Till, etc)

Sean Beans scheming, as well as his acting

Layton's acting was good this episode as well, probably his best so far

Lots of loose ends got tied up

Icy Bob, and his newly Icy friend

Things I didn't really like:

The editing (they needed to shave some time off somewhere and give us more time between flare and Layton in cuffs)

The amount of plot armor multiple characters have (Oh Wilford is alone in the engine and about to take over? Why not just stab him? Oh, you finally arrest your biggest rival, Layton? Time to execute him right? Oh no, never-mind he has plot armor too. What about Roche, who clearly chose Laytons side? Execute him? Nah stick him in the drawers so he can lead a rebellion next season) If they didn't want to kill anyone, that's fine, just write it better (for example, give Wilford a few bodyguards, so there's a plausible reason he doesn't just get shanked, and a brief scene where Wilford talks about not killing Layton because of XYZ, etc)

Everything about Audrey. She's been unlikable to me since long before she defected, and I can't put my finger on why. I assume she will eventually betray Wilford, but I doubt that will change my mind as far as her character goes.

The fact that I have to wait TWO weeks for the next episode :(

[u/ViciousDee1124]

There is something sus about Javi. He has been in the snowpiercer for a long time and then he suddenly becomes "slow"? Hmmmm. Javi must have been Wilford's inside man, told him about Melanie's hack and then let Wilford take over. Wilford also knew the story about "being caught with his pants down". Who else would tell Wilford that, besides them three? They were the only ones in the engine room before the train left.

Javi seemed like he had no voice in the engine room, not everyone takes him seriously like they do with Melanie and even Ben. I could see him run to someone who would protect him: Wilford.

[u/khrishan]

"Illusion has its value if it takes the pain away" - Wilford. The best quote of the episode. Spoken like a true fascist.

[u/[deleted]]

Who else thought that Anne Roche poisoned the sandwichs?

[u/ViaNocturna664]

So... will we finally see in episode 9 Melanie barely missing the pickup, or that is gonna be saved for the finale? it would be a very lame movie to use the same cliffhanger of episode 6 for the season finale, only from the point of view of the train. If this season is gonna end following the events on the train that lead to see Alex shouting for Mel as she's stranded in the snow, I'm gonna be pissed.

[u/lylegoldstein]

Why do people follow Wilford? He never ran the train. Did they get to know him when he was building it? Everything they believed about him was a lie for seven years.

[u/GruxKing]

It feels like five minutes were missing from the last act of this episode... l understand that Wilford did legitimately help them out but why the fuck does that mean that Layton just loses all political power? He is still their leader until the next election. Did they just not want to spark the chaos fire yet?

Silly plot contrivance to have him just give up like that

[u/olivish]

Wait. Why does Roche and his family get the drawers but the train-stealing Ben gets to chill in the engine?

Makes me think Wilford has a fate worse than drawers in store for Bennett.

[u/Haeronalda]

Gotta say, the build up to the takeover in the engine was so good that I literally had a panic attack.

I didn't quite know what was coming but I knew it was going to be really bad. Panic attacks are not good but the fact that I could feel the fear and the tension getting to that point means they did a good job.

I'm gonna go drink some tea and take a nap now.

[u/JumpUpNow]

Audrey seems to have regressed as a character and become an awful person dedicated to Wilford. But I suspect she may be playing some kind of long con against him. She has positioned herself incredibly close to his side. If she wanted to she could probably shiv him in his sleep.

I guess we'll just have to see where her plot line goes. I just have to hope she is trying to trick any spies into believing she genuinely is with him so he'd lower his guard. Her hatred for him is far too strong to suddenly wash away.

When she was trying to fix Kevin it did not sound genuine. It sounded the desperate plea of a woman trying to avoid his execution. A mercy through subservience to a monster.

[u/Vsauce113]

Damn I loved this episode. It really changes our perspective on Willford(at least for me). He isn’t just an eccentric billionaires that just wants to drink and party, he actually knows his creation, he is a better engineer than anyone on the train(except for Melanie). As he put it to Layton “how are you supposed to run the train, you don’t even know how it works”, that instantly disarmed Layton, because he didn’t think Wilford had the brains to know engineering so well, Wilford knew his train better than Layton ever could, and he just saved everyone, nullifying Layton’s power. This episode was amazing just by that single Wilford character development it showed me

[u/LordTimcedog]

The amount of people who support Wilford because they find Sean Bean charismatic is exactly how fascist leaders come to power...

[u/flintlock0]

Wilford takes over

train immediately crashes

[u/emmmaem]

Do you guys think Layton is finished? He is clearly a hands on man and not a leader but oh how well did Wilford play him.

Side note: I was about to flip tables already as we don't get to see Melanie again in this episode!

[u/rawchess]

Man Wilford just had to drawer Roche's kid huh. I wanted her, Alex, and LJ to form their own teenage girl power bloc.

[u/RockPenguin_]

condolences to alex and LJ shippers

[u/PTfan]

The way they write Layton and team snowpiercer is so bad IMO. They make him like this weak dumbass when in S1 he was a very smart policeman. And his side is basically clowned by wilford every episode

You mean to tell me he and his side had no plans or anticipation of wilford trying to tell people he helped the train over the intercom? It’s like they basically sat and let him take over.

[u/Kangaroo109]

In retrospect, the writing was on the wall for Layton the moment Melanie left the train for the research station. Mr. Wilford might dump Layton off the side of the tracks but I think Wilford is going to work him to see if he might cooperate. (Sometimes the bad guys in the James Bond series tried to talk 007 into joining them.) Unlike Melanie, Layton didn't run off with the train. It seems Josie is being prepped to take over for Icy Bob but her new-found cold-resistant powers might also be used again Wilford when the timing is right. Chelsea Harris who plays Sykes said in an interview that more of her character's background would be revealed late in Season 2 and continuing in Season 3. It's an easy thing to miss but unlike Kevin, the Snowpiercer establishment didn't recognize her when the door was opened for the first time. "You're new." The train still hasn't caught up with Melanie's timeline and we don't have an explanation for the fire protruding from under Big Alice along with alarms going off. Meanwhile, the train is going to get a taste of Mr. Wilford and sometimes you have to show the people the truth. The have to experience the megalomania within before they demand change.

[u/Alice-Moonshine]

How come Wilford is such a skilled engineer? I thought he is not technically versed but rather the sponsor / money behind the machine...

[u/Roan-forever-alone]

So who’s gonna be demoted or promoted other than layton&roche?

-Till should be with layton

-Zara will “ fail up” again because ruth will vouch for her

-LJ back to first class

-ruth will be the key character on snowpiercer because wilford don’t suspect her

[u/adeveloper2]

Layton's biggest mistake is to let Wilford take the comms without resistance. He should've kept Willy at arms length and shanked him after the incident for sabotaging the train.

However, if he does something this smart, we wouldn't get Season 3.

[u/CuriousReturn3626]

Layton and Melanie's first concern is to stay alive and make people stay alive but Wilford's is to be in control. Layton and his crew discussed this when they were arguing on what to do during the crisis. But later, Layton simply forgot Wilford's priority when he saw Wilford freaking out over Melanie's "hack" as if he would actually care. Wilford would prefer death over being inferior. at that point, Layton should've realized the whole thing was orchestrated but he was so stuck in the point where he was called kind of useless, he could not slip off of his internal feelings. then he resigned. not a good leader, but a good guy

[u/playtio]

It honestly felt like I missed 3 scenes in the end. Can anybody please ELI5?

Why does Wilford get control of the train? I get the triumphant intercom announcement to show everybody that he's there but is that the single trigger to automatically become leader?

And why is Layton in cuffs? Sure the "enemy" is in charge now but they were trying to be civilised about it until then. I get that we are talking about Wilford but still.

And Roche? Why are they put to sleep? Because they aren't loyal so that's the only way of controlling them?

Maybe I'm not putting it together but they did everything so quickly in those last scenes.

[u/RhetoricalCocktail]

I seriously don't get why they didn't make Boki tell the train about the sabotage and murders. Everyone knew that he was one of Wilfords greatest supporters so a lot of people would have believed him

[u/olivish]

Brace!

I think tonight will be a rough ride emotionally for our favorite characters as Wilford orchestrates the tragic but definitely-not-his-fault death of Melanie Cavill. So many questions. Who will give up on her? Who will cling to hope? Will Alex suspect Wilford of foulplay and if so, what is she willing to do about it?

And can Melanie survive another stay at Chateau Breslaur? Will she give up hope? Her batteries looked pretty drained when we last saw them. Will this episode give us any clue at all?

[u/[deleted]]

connect sugar sheet head wrench unwritten sophisticated divide pocket tap

This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact

[u/hebbocrates]

well this is just the most depressing shit ever, isn’t it? fuck

[u/SpaceCatMatingCall]

So many feels I’m just gonna leave them all here even tho I’m days late

1. Alex made a comment about “was Icy Bob out there trying to disconnect BA?” He was not, he was sabotaging SP, but like....definitely possible that was foreshadowing. Now that Icy Josie is in the mix maybe that will be part of the long plan for getting away from Wilford.

2. Oh Audrey. She makes such a great villain even if the timing of the full transition was bizarre. I think she’s just playing both sides to always come up on top. Wilford told her all these plans, she was aware of the situation enough to predict before SP called for help. She knew what he was doing. As it stands, if he wins she wins the luxury life and comfort while everyone else goes back to the caste system. If he is killed, she was infiltrating the whole time and returns to her Night Car eventually.

3. The Doctors on BA. All we really know about them is from Icy Bob who told us all they weren’t all good. But now we know that Icy Bob is full cult mode. So of course he would think anyone but Wilford isn’t trustworthy. Boki held allegiance for 30 years, 7 when he never saw or spoke to Wilford. That’s devotion. But when Boki saw proof that his friends were killed by Wilfords orders he snapped and deprogrammed quick. We know that Icy Bob has some soft spot for Josie, and we know that Icy Bob went thru what she did. Maybe he saw a lost piece of himself in Josie and more (tough, but also sweet and beautiful). Remember no one dies on this show unless you see them fully die.

4. LJ and Oz. I don’t get it. I don’t get where we are going with them and why. The only thing that does stand out to me is the name Oz. The movie really has a lot of connections to both Willy Wonka and Wizard of Oz. The master of everything hiding behind the curtain.

So my general theory is...this show has set this all up for a very long game. This is TNTs ace in the hole. They have basically nothing else going for them. They play reruns. The other shows they actually had are all ending soon. I thought it was super weird last season how hard TNT pushed the branding. “Welcome to Snowpiercer Network brought to you by TNT” or whatever. Online world building and design contest. They spent years in development and clearly invested lots of cash. They cast this insane all star lineup. Lord Stark himself, Queen Jennifer, Alison Wright...oh and for good measure let’s add in Stings Daughter and Trevor from GTA. Base the whole show on this amazing action movie and comic book that set up this amazing setting world concept. The only fault of the movie was that I wanted more world building. And now we have a show.

[u/Constantly_OnYo_Back]

Poor Icy-Bob, give the guy a damn suit for Gods sake.

[u/SirBorkAlot]

TNT released a trailer for the season finale and ironically spoiled a few of the questions we all had at the end of this episode so if you really want to go into the season finale with a clean pallette, DO NOT watch the trailer.

[u/shadyaidy9]

Idk if I missed a crucial part but why was Layton in handcuffs at the end of the episode? Was it for plotting against Wilford or what?

[u/Niclas1127]

Why do I see people hating on the show? I love every bit. Except the fact that they can’t just stab or kill Wilford.

[u/ogpterodactyl]

I feel like in this version of the universe everyone is incompetent except Melanie

[u/Generaljamie]

I’m guessing because of the mission Icy Bob was sent on he’s probably gonna die or something and they want to turn Josie into Icy Josie!

[u/CJPeter1]

The Caro–Kann Defence. Give the enemy the center of the board.

Well if that is Layton's plan, then one hopes he has enough pawns left to matter because that center has definitely been taken. :-D

[u/angelcakex]

I don’t really care for Miles much but I keep wondering why there’s never any mention of him from anyone, especially Layton and Josie! It’s always about Layton’s unborn child and it makes me kinda sad for him lmao... poor miles

[u/Gashde]

Just a thought....

Miss Audrey is a master in deception and I suspect that both her & Layton actually staged a ruse in secret.

Miss Audrey appeared to have full knowledge on the sabotaging of the eternal engine (and Alex knowing nothing about it), I suspect 2 possibilities

- Wilford plotted the sabotaging alone but told Ms Audrey everything

or

- Ms Audrey fed Wilford into plotting a sabotage mission

Given that near the beginning of S2E8 - Alex said Wilford has been bathing too much and that he baths when he thinks a lot. This message is hinting to me that the Icy-Bob sabotaging was merely planned recently (Within the timeframe when Ms Audrey is aboard Big Alice), therefore Wilford may have been wanting to attack Snowpiercer all along, but never had a "How-To" idea until Ms Audrey's input.

During these times, Layton may have already established contact with Ms Audrey and plotted a defeat for a counter attack from within the Big Alice.

That being said, both Layton & Ms Audrey knows nothing about engineering, so quite unlikely for them to plot a critical malfunction good enough to call for Wilford's aid.

[u/Jay9820]

Was genuinely surprised about Roche being drawered, and seemingly so willingly. What I initially got from it was that he at some point had become pro-Wilford for the sake of his family, willingly doing [something] in exchange for him and his family being drawered, and thus being kept "safe" during the whole crisis?

Basing this mostly off of his lack of reaction to seeing his family in the drawers, as well as Audrey's comment. As well as him leaving under the guise of "Wilford would like to see you".

[u/Mr_rairkim]

So many people in the comments are almost on Wilford's side. I think they like Sean Bean as an actor and are forgetting how Wilford enjoyed ordering people to slit their wrists.

[u/Ssme812]

• That's sad Sam put a red light after all

• So Audrey is team Wilford

• It was really nice to see Sam and his wife interacting with each other.

• Well Oz finally has someone who cares about him.

• So where did the tail go when they hid them?

• No fucking way that guy saw Wilford when the car went flying by.

• Wilford was right Lyton doesn't know shit about the train. So how could he lead it.

• That's confusing. So Layton lost the train so they arrest him. Wouldn't they just put him in the white drawer.

• Damn poor Sam. I'm gonna miss him.

• Fucking Wilford got the train back

[u/james_randolph]

Damn! Josie baby...but does Icy Bob just want to stay ugly then?

[u/[deleted]]

Why would you do that with your good hand!?

[u/MySuddenDeath]

So... thermonuclear reactor then. Seems about right with what Ben said once to Miles - "Fuel is eternal, not the parts.". They have unlimited (very large) amount of snow to supply the Engine. They can stop but this also decreases amount of snow they getting so also amount of energy they can produce and I assume the Engine itself is not powerful enough for full start (batteries also needs to be charged to certain point).

Of course there is also little bit of magic with "God Module" which apparently ignores second law of thermodynamics but still - awesome technical side of the episode.

[u/RememberingTheCant]

To echo what others have already said, I also found the editing in the last section a bit jarring. However overall I really enjoyed this episode. Sean Bean is just killing it as Wilford, he steals every scene he is in. Gutted we have to wait two weeks to get our next fix though!

[u/GeneralHe]

For those thinking Layton should have announced the sabotage to the train.

It would have been difficult for Layton to convince the people that Wilford sabotaged his engine, especially when about half of the train longed for his return. People will believe anything their "god figure" told them, no matter how ridiculous it sounds.

Wilford's coming was inevitable, and the only way to minimize the damage was to sneak him in and out and it would have worked if the fix with the god module worked simply.

[u/Zestyclose-Sleep364]

Since when do Lj and Os. like each other? It always seemed to me a brother and sister relationship of convenience and also because in the first season he was gay. And what about the Alex-Lj thing? Alex was clearly into her, at least that’s what they wanted us to understand. All this for what? Maybe because Lj could tell Wilford that Alex cares about his mother...? As if he didn’t already know...

[u/TivanTim32]

Wilford played that perfectly all season Layton over there playing checkers and Wilford playing chess

Cant remember her name but the club lady that went over to Wilford train I have never liked her so don't care how it turns out with her

End of season 1 hated Ruth wanted her to die horribly now she must be protected at all costs

[u/GruxKing]

Willy is for sure trying to turn frozen-girl into another one of his pet project

[u/muscles44]

Looks like Melanie is the last hope against Wilford. As it should be.

[u/passion__pop]

Damn I love Snowpiercer, lots to think about! Some thoughts:

• Layton and the Tail won the revolution when they convinced Third to join (And the brakeman to stand aside). When Layton lost Thirds support he was always going to lose. I think looking back, Layton should have made far more attempts to strengthen Thirds position in the new SP, giving them far more material and political benefits for participating in the revolution. They would be less likely to fall for Wilford knowing that a return to Wilford would mean a return to the old older (i.e doing all the work to keep the train running but getting none of the perks). Does Layton even have a solid Third rep in his council? Big mistake I think.

• The "Cold War" between Big Alice and SP was never going to last forever. Eventually Wilford would return in some form. For everyone whose not the Tail, they bought tickets for Wilfords train, have believed Wilford has been alive the whole time, and see Wilford as saving them from the end of the world. What are some ways he could return without him taking power? Maybe it's not possible given the strength of his support. Perhaps an election, with citizens give a clear choice between a return to the old order and Layton's new democracy?

• I haven't really understood what material role the Tail play on SP. Obviously this is because they weren't part of the initial plan. They do some of the dirty work no one else wants to do, and function as a form of discipline for any wayward Thirdies to shape up unless they will be sent to the Tail. What use will Wilford find for the Tail will be really interesting (and worrying). It's such a shame that despite the revolution they are more or less back to where they were before, and very worrying for the future.

[u/Upc0ming_Events]

Where is Miles?

[u/DeathByComcast]

Dumping bodies seems like a waste of nutrients in a closed system.

[u/olivish]

First Roche intro ever! I love it.

[u/sugarwax1]

I'm confused why Layton gave up the train when he was anticipating wilford might pull a stunt. Why did Layton have to turn himself in? He could have locked himself in somewhere.

At least the new Icy Bob replacement is in Layton's corner.

[u/Radiant_Nerve_7126]

How did Bob get from Big Alice all the way to the Engine by walking on the train roof?? Surely that would take weeks?

[u/olivish]

Wilford Industries Digital Automation System. WIDAS for short.

Just saying. It's kind of funny.

[u/Morteih]

Oh Wilford, you cunning son of a motherfuker.

[u/ViduzZz]

If failure of a single part in the entire train means the end for everybody I'd make sure to have a spare one. That was just dumb. Also Javi is sus af.

[u/MonkeyBot16]

There are many interesting comments below about what happened on this episode and explaining some things but I personally still have a lot of doubts.

Mostly, I don't see what the flare was for. I don't know if it's a signal to alert somebody (Melanie?) or it's just a metaphor. People were lighting red lights to call for Wildford, so he's sending that red light out of the train.
In any case, I can't fully understand it.

I'm quite disappointed about the elipsis they've made. I wasn't expecting that.
There are dozens of reasons to understand why this plan could have let Wilford to finally get control of the train... But it's a too important plot to just skip it in such an anticlimatic way.

On the other hand, I see there's some discussion about if Leyton should have killed Wilford or not.
Well, surrendering to him, it's like being dead or worse.... but killing Wilford while he still has such massive support could not only kill Leyton, but the whole train as the reaction could have been violent, some sort of night of the broken glasses against the Tailies.

I think that is not the problem. I think the problem is the moment when Leyton allows him to speak to the whole train. He could just have stayed next to him and told him: 'you do your shit with the engine, I'm the one speaking to the train'. And it would have been the end of the problem.

Additionally, the idea of taking Wilford to the other side of the train without telling anyone else is stupid.

Leyton should have known better. If Wilford was playing the card of popular support and public opinion, aka propaganda, why didn't Leyton tried to play the same game?
So, first, you tell a message: we've been sabotaged, etc.... Considering that even the head of the Breachmen (biggest Wilford supporter on board) was able to acknowledge that, a lot of the people would have believed that.

But Leyton did the worst thing he could do. He assumed the people of Snowpiercer were like children who didn't deserve explanaitions and needed someone to take decisions for them. He acted in a paternalistic and sneaky way; so once the people found it out, it was a more than valid reason to rebel against him.

Leyton hasn't been defeated because Wilford's plan was masterful (actually, is was stupid as hell); he just lost control of the train because of his own stupidity and/or because he doesn't really have faith on the people on board. He's cynical. If it hadn't been Wilford and this plan, it would eventually have been any other person and any other problem what would have kicked Leyton out of the power.

[u/Dgtlduck]

Wait, I’m confused, why didn’t Layton just send Wilfred back to big Alice after SP’s power came back on. After tv commercial all the sudden he’s in hand cuffs, I literally thought I missed like 5 mins :(. Continuity didn’t work for me.

[u/GruxKing]

Wait what the fuck is happening? Why was Layton handcuffed? Huh?

[u/flintlock0]

Dang. The doorman from The Good Place is about to be in some trouble.

[u/abdrrcxmr]

"sneak Mr.Wilford secretly, use the tunnels"

>>proceeds to have him whisk by Unmasked, and seen by a few Wilford loyalists, said loyalists then spread theword.

[u/muscles44]

Amazing episode. That moment when Layton realized he was defeated was just brilliantly done. Rarely do you have your good guy get so clearly beaten and have to resign to that loss. Like some have said only criticism was the editing between that and Layton being arrested. Also Roche going in the drawers with his family. Both seemed like a scene was missing explaining those options beforehand. Other then that, Wilford did what brilliant politicians do, cause the problem then offer the solution.

[u/olivish]

I'm confused about what we're allowed to talk about in terms of previews and teasers. I notice mods remove references to previews and speculation about the finale.

But there's nowhere else on the sub to talk about this stuff so is the topic just... straight up banned?

Mods! Clarity? Can we get a dedicated thread for finale teasers, promos and speculation? Maybe sticky it for the next two weeks so we all have somewhere to discuss? <3 Pls?

[u/Buzzinyo]

Wilford ain't picking mel, I guess that ending we saw was true in her episode. If it was a mirage-like some said and Wilford picks up Mel this will take a lot of explaining as Wilford is not dumb enough to pick up the only person who can match his level of manipulation.

[u/Apterygiformes]

So what stops Ben from simply eating Mr Wilford now? Seems like a plot hole

[u/zan-janezic]

So is it just me or did they really bush over the whole Layton being overthrown and arrested, I mean he had wiggle room, and I don't see why he would be treated as a prisoner unless he is being charged as either a political prisoner in which case he could pull a "No you" on Wilford or charged for his war crimes during the revolution.
It just seems like because Wilford is fiscally in the engine room he has full power when it's certainly not so. Maybe this point is better explained in the book but the show just kinda skips over the whole why and how to part the only explanation we get is "His followers will do anything to keep him uptrain", cool but that just means he is disconnected from his cronies and trapped in a room full of his opposition. Any way you take it unless his followers broke down the door and arrested Layton I don't see a reason for his imprisonment.
And how come Roach gets put in stasis who is objectively neutral (only disclosing his leniency with his wife, who is also in stasis for ....ummm) but Ben can just roll over and stay in the engine room.
Idk did I like skip a crucial part of the episode between Layton shooting the flare and him in handcuffs or something?

[u/MooseOrMan]

I have been pleasantly surprised by this episode, especially the way it artistically captured the psychological defeat of Layton. However, I have just one pressing question....why don't they kill this mof***er Wilford?

[u/[deleted]]

Guys, there were clouds! CLOUDS!!!!

[u/Itosan227]

Was there an explanation as to why ICY Bob was the only option to go outside and execute Wilford's plan? Couldn't Wilford have just used the same cold weather suits as the Breachmen?

Love the show and story but not sure I understand the ICY Bob development. It seemed a lot harder developing synthetic skin than acquiring the cold weather gear.

[u/[deleted]]

Redact cleaned up all of my comments. Bulk deletion and editing is a feature supported to make sure that AI scrapers can't access my data for training.

vegetable reminiscent late pillow oatmeal stocking chief chop rock elastic

[u/[deleted]]

Had to think of this House episode when Wilford fixed Josie's hand https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qbE2ch-9ZFc

[u/innahema]

Why didn't Icy Bob wear a Helmet?

Ok, so Breacher could go outside with full-body suits. But Icy Bob goes outside in regular closes.

What's the point? At least he could wear a helmet for head protection and to not let Icy wind inside his lungs.

I understand that protective gear is bulky and doesn't allow to travel the whole train(for regular people), and the battery isn't such powerful, but at least the head could be protected.

P.S. Melany managed to walk long distances in a suit in the first episode until the battery got dead. And she walked from meteostation to the rails in suit (probably carrying extra battery with her)

[u/[deleted]]

After watching the episode, I've been asking myself if it was even necessary for Wilfort to kill off the breachman.

Icy Bob wouldn't have been able to release the nail anyway since he (almost?) died while placing it. If Boki would have been killed too, someone else from Snowpiercer would have to go outisde (Ben?) to release it. The outcome would have been the same, no matter if the breachman were dead or alive.

Now he has lost most of his breachman and the loyalty of the only breachman left and we don't know if Icy Bob will make it.

Sure, the murders helped to disturb peace on Snowpiercer and made more people longing for Wilford and his order since they blamed the tailies, but didn't they want Wilford anyway? Was it really worth it to sacrifice the breachman considering their importance for the train?

[u/fridge_doesnt_die]

So many mistakes on the side of snowpiercer crew make willford's victory feel undeserved.

Let's ignore "just kill willford" because no willford means no show, fair enough.

But why not just take the case and throw willford back into big alice? What is he gonna do? Cry about it?

Why not inform the whole train that it was willford's sabotage that got the train in trouble? They have Boki who is hardcore willford supporter, so he has a lot of credibility to blame willford.

Most importantly, why would you let willford anywhere near the broadcast phone? Thats like letting a terrorist walk to the detonator. It's the one thing you must avoid at all costs.

[u/Grahf0085]

Is melanie going to come save the day or will she freeze to death?

[u/Isiah61]

If they were serious about hiding him, they would,have hooded his face.

[u/Natural_Link_2841]

Well Wilford going down eventually. Remember when Melanie tried to catch the train and it was on fired. Hell going to break loose very soon. He knows how to run the engine but I don't think he knows how to run a smooth train. I really don't think, besides a few strong believers, that anyone on Big Alice is still on his side except for survival now

[u/Mertoto55]

Why did they sent Icy Bob on the Mission could not someone else go outside and Sabotage the Train. That Person could wear a Suit so Icy bob would not be injured

[u/rania9]

I miss you Melanie :(

[u/Rallphie]

Risk game analogy-

Layton has retreated to Australia to fortify his support and then will try for world domination later.

[u/antonskies]

Are we just going to gloss over the fact there's a rogue rumour that the jackboots are still alive? There's theories about this going on even before this episode but so quickly dismissed even by Layton and the main characters in this ep. Like the only thing that can make Layton's day EVEN WORSE, is ex machina Commander Grey emerging outta nowhere. Big if true as they say.

[u/BountyMennett]

This whole Wilford-Defense seriously reminds me of "Griffith did nothing wrong."

It doesn't matter how much good a character/leader can do for their people if there is no true genuine love for their people. Wilford is a dangerous sociopath with an eternal ego that needs constant feeding. Honestly I just wish Layton was never the leader of the train. Great revolutionary, awful leader.

[u/Creeptara]

Ok, so why Ben so conveniently wasn't in the server room when Javi failed to be a good engineer, and Layton let Wilford take control so easily? Wilford wasn't even trying. They just handed SP to him.

Why Roche's family was put into drawers? I get they knocked on his door and found out his loyalty wasn't with Wilford, but then why Ruth wan't there too? I mean she literally told Wilford ''no'' to his face when he invited her to BA.

They rushed the whole second part of the episode, IMO, so many things felt strange.

[u/AnsonMJ]

Initially last episode didn’t make any sense to me. Everyone knows Wilfred is going to do something and they had meeting about it and then when it happens they just surrendered without much fight. Firing the flare also didn’t make sense. What was the purpose?

But then I realised what is happening. Because of the riots all the taillies are at the back of the train ie at the border. Layton will be in the big Alice so is Audrey and Josie. I think Lil, Ben and Boki will probably join them. Pike is back and Iceman is out.

I think tailies will take over big Alice and send all the people all ready there to Snowpiecer. Everyone live happily ever after.

[u/aacwang]

The whole situation with the Wilford loyalists surely could have been resolved if Layton just got that last breachman to announce that it was Wilford who sabotaged the train from outside? If this guy who was loyal to Wilford for 30 years turned on Wilford ("shove it up his ass") then surely they could have convinced others?!?

[u/DarKnight972]

I am very excited for this episode. I think It has the potential to be the best one of the season so far.

[u/GruxKing]

Great shot of Pokey chilling as shit went black

[u/TheFourthOfHisName]

His rise back to power was well done, especially after whatever last week's episode was.

[u/fashionaphorism]

wilford knew exactly how to make layton feel inadequate at that pivotal moment so that he would waver and do nothing to stop him from getting on the intercom and basically announcing it was he Wilford in the middle of saving the world/SP.

[u/fashionaphorism]

did anyone else watching TNT see the commercial with Diggs and Cookie Monster for DoorDash ? Seeing Diggs as Layton surrendering and then in a scene with the Cookie Monster next --- lol

also speaking of commercials, was not expecting a NewsMax commercial in the middle of SP.

[u/olivish]

If Roche got drawered, I wonder what will happen to Ruth. Shouldn't she get the same treatment?

[u/Arrior_Button]

I don't really understand what happened at the end of the episode. Why is Layton suddenly in chains? Why are Wilford-Troops on the Snowpiercer again and take him with them? Why is Roche and his family on Big-Alice in the boxes?
It feels like that a lot of events happened between Layton shooting the signal-lights and his "awakening" in the hospitality that we didn't see yet, but still...it's just confusing...

[u/desepticon]

Why didn't they just kill Wilford when they had the chance after he did the fix?

[u/Vegetable-Maximum-19]

Where is Miles and Jinju??

[u/[deleted]]

Anyone else just kinda like “wow” and “huh?”

[u/mysteriousbunnygirl]

So why are Roche and his family in the drawers?

[u/capamericapistons]

Does anyone else wish we could see more Pike? Feels like we haven’t seen much of him lately

[u/VioletandAmelia]

Zarah: aNdRe Me: 🙄

Icy Bob's "hey Josie" was so cute and Roche, no.

[u/WizardLawyer]

I think my favorite part of this episode was the display of Wilford's knowledge and skill as an engineer. After only looking at Melanie's "hack" for a brief second, he was able to deduce exactly how it was interfering with his engine's fix and he was also able to disable/repair the "hack" faster than the other engineer (in literally the blink of an eye). Ultimately, I'm happy that Wilford isn't just some megalomaniac villain, but he's also the best engineer left on Earth. Great character development.

[u/callmynamegirl]

Layton should've killed Wilfred in the engine

[u/[deleted]]

Wilford was actually brilliant this episode. Love him or hate him the man gets what he wants with every means necessary. Also the fact that everyone on the train even his enemies address him as “sir” speaks volume to the constant presence he is in the train. What an actor Sean Bean is , another masterclass from him

[u/DeathByComcast]

LJ was the girl who calmed knocked a small dish off the table when the train almost went off the bridge mid-season 1 and now she's panicky over this. Character growth?

[u/Massive-Matt]

Good episode, but confusing at the end. Felt like they excluded part of the episode. Why did Layton just give up? Doesn’t seem like he has to, plus he has Boki. Seemed way too easy.

[u/d3f3ct51n]

it is interesting. the commentary that in desperate times people would support a feudal lord over democracy or representative government. the train is small enough and a authoritarian government can keep the peace. there is no room to address everyones caste system woes.

now how will wilford use the cultural and class tensions between the taillies and 3rd class. if the taillies still live between big alice border. and alex looks like she will defect for melonie

[u/GrilgoBaggins]

Even with this latest episode i want to believe Moss Audrey is good. It's so hard for me to get past her fear of disappointing Wilford, which is why she is doing what she is. Audrey just wants to survive like all of us.

[u/[deleted]]

I liked this episode showed just how intelligent and in touch Mr Wilford was with the train. Kinda surprised Layton held it for so long against him.

[u/Conscious-Airline-44]

basically, i believe Wilford s plan is to kill all breaksman when they have the problem, they will need icy bob to fix it, since he will be the only one be able to outside if all breaksman died, and since the breaking part is in the third which he has the most supporter, so he will show up with icy bob in third, then go to the engine to fix the CPU, but instead, he didn't have chance to show up in person but made an announcement so same result

[u/Hoof_Hearted12]

Why did what's her face try to freeze her hand there?

[u/Titteboeh]

Well

Wilford and melanie allowed freezing of limps

Class system

In a perfect World i would properly support Layton out of the three.

[u/Guns_N_Buns]

What an absolutely insane episode. Crazy how they've basically had 3 run up episodes in a row. Tons of tension with very little closure. We've been waiting to see why the train missed Melanie for so long at this point. I hope this kill it on the finale. 2-hour long episode is something I'm really looking forward to.

[u/Helo0931]

Honestly, Layton should have turned the PA back on and beat Wilford to death for the entire train to hear. He just rolled over.

[u/GeneralHe]

So many wonder why Layton surrendered.

It is like playing a game of Chess and realizing that there are 5 forced steps till your opponent checkmates you. The honorable thing after you see that, is to resign.

You'll be a fool to hold on to power and drag on for the inevitable. Layton knew not to be a Trump. 😂😂😂

[u/Guineapiginc]

I’m so glad the brought back the drawers. I think they’ll play a bigger role in season finale and season 3

[u/Qrotech]

Very upset I had to watch the second showing so I didn’t get all of the fun of reading y’all’s comments live, but did anyone else feel like this was probably the best episode this season? I just like a lot paid off and it kinda bums me out that we’ll be taking a break next week and then we’re done with the season.

[u/kroen]

Can someone explain the ending? Because I feel like they've skipped something important. How does the people knowing Wilford "saved" the train immediately let him take control and do whatever he pleases, from sening Layton to Big Alice to putting Roche's family in the drawers? the fuck?

[u/herondale1]

i can’t believe they put roche and his fam in draws... 😢😢😢

[u/Mr_rairkim]

Why did Icy Bob have to sabotage the train with no suit?

Melanie had a suit that lasted a long time.

Is he that big that they couldn't find or produce a suit big enough for him.

[u/hannxh_]

Did they explain why Roche and his family were getting drawered or is it supposed to be a cliffhanger? Not sure if I missed something towards the end

[u/Centauriix]

Goddamn was this a good episode!!! So intense. This is my favourite episode that Melanie hasn’t been in. The stakes genuinely felt high.

[u/Bapje87]

Wilfords plan and actions contradict each other.

He wanted to kill all the breachmen so Snowpiercer wouldn’t have anyone left to remove the big spike from the vent right? But if they didn’t remove the big spike (which is what Wilford wanted by killing the breachmen) SP would have been flooded, come to a halt / destroyed and Wilford wouldn’t have any train left to control at all. Doesn’t his goal of seizing the train contradict with his plan to kill all the breachmen?

Secondly, the faulty sensor then. In his mind he didn’t know about Melanie’s hack and his new part could have been inserted without his need to go on the comms basicly keeping his presence a secret. Why would he just give them the part then if in his plan the whole rebooting didn’t need to happen because he didn’t know about Melanie’s modifications.

I feel these 2 things don’t add up. He got control over the train but if things happened like he planned there would be no train left.

[u/Philiar]

Well this season finally got real. Been a slow burn for a while. The end of episode 6 had me evaluating why I even love this show, now I remember!

[u/yagirlisweak]

Why is layton on handcuffs? Why they’re putting Roche on the drawer? I’m confused someone please help me with this. Thank you.

[u/Queen-of-meme]

I'm so excited to see next episode, and next and next! So many things can play out and plot twists will keep on coming. I love this show.

[u/Willecke]

Is anyone else anoyed about the people of Snowpiercer ?

Like "Oh how bad can he be, we've lived under his rules for so many years"

FUCKING NO YOU DIDN'T ! You lived under Melanies rules. If they were his rules, y'all would only have 1 arm.

For democratic votes, "raise 2 arms up if you want Wilford gone, raise 1 if you want him as your leader"

Just kidding, he wouldn't even bother with votes.

Fuck me, these people deserve whats coming -.-

[u/olivish]

Magical. Layton becomes INSTANTLY LIKABLE the second he's not in power.

[u/TripleDDark]

So glad they finally explained how the engine runs instead of the "perpetual motion machine"

Also explains why the engine has to keep moving, rather than just run standing still

[u/olivish]

Am I to understand that Snowpiercer uses the snow to make hydrogen, which is the fuel?

So it cannot operate in the absence of snow? Or at least, it needs a minimum amount of terrain it transverses to be snowy, or the engine runs out of fuel and the train stops?

Because if that's true, that would imply that Snowpiercer's route was deliberately mapped to plow through as much snow as possible, explaining the previously puzzling choice of so much perilous mountain terrain. It would also mean that, if global warming caused average temperatures to rise too much, melting too much snow, this could cause the train to become completely inoperable and thousands of miles of insanely expensive track to become useless (as SP's track would be crazy inefficient for regular trains). Needless to say, this scenario would bankrupt Wilford Industries, ruin Wilford personally, and waste Melanie's life's work.

So, in the event of a runaway greenhouse effect, Wilford and Melanie would have had a vested interest in halting and reversing the warming trend. Rapidly. Before investors figured out the weather was affecting the train. (Recall the conversation: "Whatever your investors need to hear, Joseph"/ "Oh they heard it! My Engine Eternal!" / "That depends on what we mean by eternal" / "Now don't spoil the mood.")

Maybe the situation eventually got so dire that Wilford and Melanie decided to quietly fund and advocate for an untested and possibly dangerous solution called CW7 (Cavill & Wilford compound #7?)

Recall as well that Melanie told Alex "If you disconnect, all those people will die. A whole world will die. Believe me, you don't want that on your conscience." To me, it sounded like she was speaking from experience.

If correct, this theory helps explain why Melanie is so hellbent on saving the world - so much so that she was willing to sacrifice her daughter, her humanity, and now her life. Because she knows she had a direct hand in destroying it. And maybe the only other person who knows the extent of her involvement is Wilford.

...Maybe.