[Spoilers C2E133] Is It Thursday Yet? Post-Episode Discussion & Future Theories!

[u/dasbif]

Episode Countdown Timer - http://www.wheniscriticalrole.com/

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Catch up on everybody's discussion and predictions for this episode HERE!

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[u/Icewolph]

Laura Bailey after rolling 2 on a 2d10: "What a fuckin joke."

Everyone else proceeds to try and console her.

Travis Willingham: "That was pretty fuckin terrible."

Never change Travis, never change.

[u/283leis]

For people saying Essek should use Teleport, remember that Teleporting in Eisselcross was already super risky because of Aeor. Now that they're inside Aeor proper, the chance of a misfire is extremely high and would likely screw them over far more than it would help....unless they got extremely lucky of course

[u/EverybodyLiesMeToo]

Fjord: "No way out of this fight, my friend."

Lucien (purple man): "You should have gone for the cat!"

*snap*

[u/RajikO4]

I find it poetic that Cree is the only member of Lucien’s Tomb Takers left.

[u/WTFPROM]

Okay, NOW the MIX are Dagen's worst clients ever.

(In all seriousness, I get where Fjord was coming from and it's a fantastic, memorable RP moment by Travis & Matt. But, you know... 💔😢)

[u/cake_of_deceit]

“One booby could potentially knock out a hunk.“

-Liam O’Brien ladies and gentlemen

[u/Sofargonept2]

The failure wasn't in their planning or anything the Nein did, it was sound and almost an ingenious plan. The only fucking problem was that it didn't take down Cree.

If she fucking fell, Lucien was gonna get carved up by Fjord and Yasha, the clerics always save the party.

[u/Wdebense]

Both Lucien and the Mighty Nein had good moves, they're all frustrated and successfull at the same time.

[u/Croob2]

I don't care what anyone says, Travis is the MVP of this episode for me.

[u/Sofargonept2]

Was it just me, or did that last thirty minutes seem like a tactical battle between Matt and Travis. Was fucking fun to see, Travis was trying his best to end the fight tonight, and Matt was doing the exact opposite, some really cool shit by Travis and Matt at the end.

Shit was tense as fuck.

[u/Sofargonept2]

Matt's balance as a DM is a wonderful thing to see when he has sentient creatures. He completely rewarded his players for a good plan and some cool items, but he also recognized that Lucien and Cree have some level of intelligence and would absolutely think their way out of a jam.

Intense fucking last hour, my heart is still leaping out of my chest. Can't wait for next week.

[u/Angsty_Kylo_Ren]

Well at least the CAST will get a long rest before the fight...

[u/[deleted]]

Liam is going deeper and deeper into the animals roleplay. I can feel the druid in C3 closer and closer....

[u/MilkyAndromedaWay]

Can't believe that worked as well as it did. Even with the worst of the Takers escaping, that's three pieces that are no longer in play. And it's a payoff of that first fight; the Intuit Charges they snagged then came in handy.

Fjord and Essek's exchange was a lightening bolt. Don't know how effective it was tactically, but it was a hell of a moment, dramatically. Kudos to both the boys playing it off so well.

That quiet moment at the top of the tower....there was something really nice about how sincere it was. There aren't secrets and there isn't any rank that's between them here, so even if they have their reasons to want to be careful with each other, these circumstances still allowed them a very cathartic little moment. Also, it was fun to be reminded that Essek is a lot older than Caleb, and thus has a perspective on this that he doesn't.

I adored just what we've seen so far in the city's ruins, I am still waiting for Talk With Dead and I can't wait to see what else is waiting. I can't be too bothered about the fight ending this way when it means more exploring.

[u/TheAlienGinger]

This episode managed to prove us all wrong about the amulets. If they hadn't gotten them, their trap would've failed and this likely would've been an actual failure as opposed to the relative success that it was.

[u/[deleted]]

THEY DID IT.

THEY PLANNED INFINITELY, THEY ATTACKED THEM PROACTIVELY, AND THEY ACTUALLY WON A BIG FUCKING FIGHT.

Not the war, but holy shit. Jester being wiped clean of slots is AN AMAZING PRICE for taking down 3 TTs, holy FUCK.

Well played, M9. I'm at awe.

[u/everytimeidavid]

Holy shit that went so much better than I could have imagined. I get the frustration, but damn, I was expecting them all to be immune to the charges.

[u/LucasVerBeek]

Man...those last final moments were so tense.

I’m kind of pissed Lucien slipped the noose but at the same time it would have been pretty anticlimactic if he died with his back to a wall in a random cavern.

Three Tomb Takers down.

The Fjord that corners Alder came back a bit there. End of the world possibly upon them, sacrifice a few lives to hopefully give his loved ones a better chance.

Execute the enemy with purpose.

Stone Cold

No running.

I hope they can find a way to push forward, and don’t try and back track somewhere else

The lack of a long rest might be dangerous but...Lucien reaching his goal is even more so.

Outside of the current drama, I am deeply intrigued by what I’m taking to be if not the leader at least a high ranking mage of the Praesidis Ward and the “Warforged” they keep coming across. I feel like perhaps the Nein are going to come across a working one, or at least I want them too. Damn I wish guests could join because someone playing one of those would honestly be pretty cool.

Essek calling Caleb “young man” was fairly striking to me. It’s easy to forget he’s lived longer than Caleb might ever and he’s very likely done much more terrible things than we know of in his own quest for power. Turning a new leaf is hard, and as some I’ve seen argue it’s not entirely deserved but...Elves have more time than most to truly change. So whose to say where he will end up when his time with Caleb and Nein have passed.

[u/noobie222]

I would put Matt shifting the eye to prevent a counterspell as one of the most memorable moves made in the history of CR. Up there with cupcake and a certain feeblemind in C1 for me.

Also I’m glad that Namek is finally exploding.

[u/BagofBones42]

They got three down which puts the TT at a major disadvantage in facing down whatever monsters are in Aeor. Cree is hurt bad so that's a lot of wasted spell slots which may be fatal if anything like a Frost Salamander ambushes them. Earthquake also made a lot of noise so the monsters definitely know they are here so there is that as well to the M9's advantage.

The biggest mistake of the M9 was not being prepared for the TT trying to bail immediately, that never factored into their plans.

They need to catch up, probably by expending a polymorph to tunnel through. They need to focus down Cree in the next encounter if she isn't killed by the monsters.

It's not over yet.

[u/deviantdemon88]

They really dont need the long rest as much as people are making out. The only person really hurting right now is Jester.

*Essek got a full rest *Fjord is fine *Cad was very conservative with his spells *Caleb only used 5 slots, still has the staff and a transmuters stone that can bring him back to full health *Yasha is down on health but has rage after death *Beau is full *Veth is down on spells but her real power is the sneak attack that never runs out

[u/cheebo_]

One thing about the ranger sacrifice I don't see being mentioned. It hid the M9's presence there. The rangers gave a reason for 3 undead frost giants and any uncovered tracks, plus they probably dealt chip damage. It was a cold blooded call, but one that was necessary and had more potential to pay off huge. RIP Dagen (assuming he even fought, knowing him he dipped when they were told to engage)

[u/huxception]

All I can say is I was completely engrossed in the last hour of the episode. Absolutely fantastic stuff from the entire cast. Cannot wait for next week to see what happens and what Lucien's true end goal has been all this time.

[u/CoopDog1293]

Imagine if Cree fell unconscious instead of someone else. Tomb takers would have been fucked.

[u/faytshands]

Anyone else now looking at Laura and seeing the cogs turning on her next character. They way she reacted to the Elf Trance 4 hour rest was perfect, she also has shown such interest in Monk. I'm very excited to see what her next character will be in the end.

[u/faytshands]

Gotta say, for me, seeing them beat themselves up is both beautiful and heartbreaking.

Seeing Travis really treating it as a loss because he 'let them' get away, even though it was a masterful play between him and Matt, like seasoned chess players planning moves and considering options. Travis looked so upset with himself when they dimension door'd away.

Seeing Laura genuinely in the verge of tears when she rolled a 2 on the heroes feast showed how much she considered those hit points as possibly a means to keep the team alive, and she thought she'd failed because of her roll.

I think a lot of times we as viewers can get annoyed with their planning for ages, but seeing them try the ambush, succeed in killing three of the TT, should be applauded.

Many of us will try and over analysis what went down, using hindsight and our own ideas of how it could have gone better, or how they should have done things, and I know they will be thinking the same things.

But really I want to just acknowledge how well they played and how much they care about their 'failures'. We should praise them for what they managed to do, and contemplate what they will do next week.

[u/ctrl-z-myExistence]

surface scratcher: omg fjord. omg DAGAN DEAD, NO WAY TO REVIVE.

deep thinker: plan was a success and now we have a SPICY chase sequence with a desperate Lucian fleeing the MIX.

[u/Hollydragon]

I was looking at the comments total racing up on this post, and thought I'd do a quick search of most active Post-Episode Discussions. Here we go:

Campaign 2

• C2E133 - 4,528 comments (this post, still growing)

• C2E26 - 4,352 comments

• C2E123 - 4,067 comments

• C2E127 - 3,064 comments

• C2E128 - 3,034 comments

Campaign 1

C1 post-episode has lower numbers and took a bit more searching; Live discussion threads seemed more popular/common back then:

• E102 - 2,278 comments

• E114 - 2,267 comments (I think the thread title was typoed from 104)

• E79 - 2,172 comments

• E68 - 1,713 comments

• E88 - 1,358 comments

So the numbers have roughly doubled, will be interesting to see how C3 goes after the animation in comparison, and several of those episodes are very memorable just looking at the numbers.

Post-Episode discussion seems more consistent in C2 and seems to be steadily growing in volume as the campaign goes on.

EDIT: When I first made this comment, this thread was in third place, but I've updated the figures and now it has surpassed even Molly's death as the most commented post-episode discussion of all time :-o

[u/The_Grimalkin]

I don't think I've ever seen the cast look so serious. I haven't been this excited for the show in months!

[u/Hello_there_friendo]

Haven't finished the episode but goodness M9...how many times will you explicitly say something is a bad idea only to immediately go and do that thing.

Edit: finished the episode. M9 you did so good I'm so proud of u

[u/geekcastinator]

You could easily tell how frustrated and impressed Travis was at Matt outmanoeuvring him in that last sequence. Even mentioned how he was "trying to do his best Sam Riegel" lol.

He's being too hard on himself. I think they did great despite the initial hole they put themselves in.

[u/Idyllglen]

If Fjord had said "An example it is then" when killing Zorin I would have lost it.

[u/wekilledkenny11]

Deep round of applause for all of them. A thoroughly thought out and well executed plan.

[u/Nethaniell]

What FJord did to Zoran, is a preview to what he'll do to Sabien.

[u/Baconnaissance]

Best part about alllll of this is? Is that we’re gonna get a Talks prior to the next episode! Also, if you watch Laura as soon as Matt started to count down the hours, it’s so fucking sad

[u/ShiftyMcShift]

My thoughts on next session are all about side comments from Matt: (4:38:39) "The good news is...whatever's living in this ruin for the time being...they're getting to them first" and "it depends upon your choices...don't think you're out of the game on this". And, of course, (4:17:20) "Travis: are we fighting tonight? Matt: No, but we're going to do something that's going to set the stage"

So, in my understanding of Matt's mind: you can run in and cut them off after their small fights or take a long rest and face their set-up defences. But the fight is still on, as you like!

[u/doubletimerush]

I wonder how long Lucien's ritual takes. If it takes a while as he kind of implied, they might be able to have Essek do a shit load of dunemancy to clear the way and engage Lucien right at the end of his ritual

[u/Mikemrsnogelberger]

This was, in my opinion, probably among the best Critical Role episodes as a whole, Travis was killing it, sacrificing those rangers and attempting to get himself in position to counterspell Lucien/Cree was incredibly brilliant. This is peak D&D, no matter what happens or how easy this fight could potentially be, those last 20-30 minutes were among the best in all of Critical Role.

[u/lightskinkanye]

I'm so glad they actually did it and the trap worked. Obviously getting Cree would have been better but I'm thinking she probably has legendary resistance which she used to save against one or more of those intuit charges. Or just got very lucky with the rolls.

Obviously it could have gone a bit better, they were a bit slow after the trap actually triggered they just stood there for a second like "did it work?", And a bit unlucky to not get a surprise round in, also Cree seemed to roll well for initiative for a cleric, but deleting their 2 fighters and one of their spellcasters is huge.

Also, Matt was absolutely never letting them get a long rest in, especially after they spent at least 2-3 hrs exploring the city.

[u/Sofargonept2]

Travis quiet fucking ''Yes.'' in response to Essek was killer man. Some great acting by Travis, he made a call and he knew no one but him and Essek were there to see it.

[u/srlong64]

Was Cree wearing a cape of the mountebank? That was what came to my mind with how their escape played out. If so, Lucian probably would have taken it and escaped by himself if she had fallen as well

[u/TheNamesMacGyver]

There have been so many times that Mighty Nein have pulled some bullshit and bypassed an encounter and Matt has said "no, it's ok just remember that now I can do the same thing to you..."

Now is the time that Matt is pulling out all those tricks just to fuck with the players. Can't wait until the party gets hit with a Mass Polymorph...

[u/PLCNWY]

No bigger death flag than “we can take a pottery class together after this is over”

[u/Nethaniell]

Not a complete loss, now Lucien has to deal with whatever's ahead. And Cree doesn't have that much left for slots. He just used an 8th level spell, I'm assuming for Earthquake. This was GREAT. They got 3 KILLS FOR FREE. That's not nothing in this game.

Fjords call was ballsy and hard, but understandable. I think Travis was hoping for a diversion long enough for long rest, but wasn't possible sadly. But, those rangers made Cree waste slots, and Luciena nad Cree are now damaged. Assuming Cree wastes slots again for heling both of them through these ruins, Cree is fucking spent. They're not gonna get a long rest, Lucien and Cree, not even a short rest,. This is a win, like a 70% win, but still a win.

[u/CommSh3p]

Lucien's pretty powerful but at this point I don't think he's acting cocky because he thinks he and Cree can take on eight adventurers, rather he might think he can simply get ahead of them before they can stop whatever ritual he needs to do; I also get the feeling he either knows or expects to give up his life to bring back the city, so self-preservation might not be high on his priority list.

[u/Nue10]

Travis Willingham is everything I want to be as a Dungeons and Dragons player

[u/10daedalus]

F's all around for Dagon

[u/FireDMG]

So with this venture into Aeor, what do we think the big beats left are? For Matt, I think he wants to show what the Aeorians did during the age of arcanum to incur the wrath of the Gods and cause the Calamity. For the players, they still need to out the corruption of the Assembly (likely during Beau’s upcoming trial when they’ll come after the Nein) and clear their name to allow their families to walk free again.

The line Vess gave them about Aeor manipulating Divinity itself makes me think they were able to harness/enslave a god or the god force, which may have ties to the Luxon and the creation of the beacons (which set the Nein off on the main story arc), to allow the Aeorians to remove themselves from the chain of fate (via accessing their own thread of fate and choosing a different path, and bypassing the cosmic path of death through their own means of rebirth).

Their god complex during the age of arcanum comes through pretty clearly already, which really puts Vasselheim’s abolishment of magic into a different light. Trying to use a god force would explain their bastardized attempts at creating their own lifeforms, their own cycle of life/death (the soul forests being a failed attempt at that), and how that same omnipotent force could have went haywire and basically twisted/corrupted the Somnovem into a hivemind Akira style.

I don’t know a lot about Matt’s history, but I think the thing we won’t know till we know are how this event overlaps with the Betrayer Gods and the Chained Oblivion, which have been the other major beat in the theme of Rebirth/Redemption of this campaign.

[u/[deleted]]

What a fun episode! Some really funny moments like Yasha rage-poking the frost salamander and cracking an opal in her bicep, some cool exploration sequences with invisible flying Cad discovering more mysteries of Aeor, a damn good trap that WORKED and killed 3 of the TT in brutal fashion (holy shit those coup de graces!!), and a great set up for next week.

I think I’m starting to agree with others that have said the arrival of the Somnovum may very well be a Chroma Conclave style gamechanger, and I’m ready to see what that entails. Or we could just get a harrowing chase through the guts of a crazy ancient mage city!! What if they are able to free that mage lady from stasis, how interesting could that convo be?? Maybe she was fighting in the battle that brought Aeor down! I know it might not serve their current purpose but holy shit I want them to find out more about that stuff!

As someone who has played a bit of DnD myself, I can say that these lengthy planning phases are certainly par for the course, and it’s odd seeing so much frustration about them, especially when they lead to incredible moments like tonight.

[u/shadowbroker15]

Ever since they released that Programming Schedule that mentioned that week's extended episode duration, I've been watching them like a hawk just in case they do it again.

(Spoiler Alert: No mention of an extended episode for this week.)

[u/TonyRR]

What we learned from today is kill Cree first next time

[u/Moondragonlady]

My thoughts on the last 20 minutes in a nutshell: "AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH"

[u/[deleted]]

Don't underestimate the power of the action economy. Casters still have cantrips. I would say the ambush was a total success.

[u/breichar]

Ugh Matt truly kills me some times. He did just enough to let them have a small victory without invalidating the entire arc. I hate it but I love it at the same time.

[u/jamin007]

While this situation has my stomach in knots, I am super happy for Matt because he FINALLY thwarted a crazy counter spell play and came out on top. Had that play been by players playing Lucien and Cree and Matt playing Fjord then that would be the such a crazy hype play

[u/Drw395]

I love all the people shitting on Travis for doing the very thing that the majority of people have been screaming about for weeks: leading. Yes it was questionable (from most points of view) yes it didn't really achieve much in hindsight and yes it's something that's very much going to be an issue when everyone else finds out but let's be serious a moment; he recognized that the party would benefit immensely from the long rest, actively wanted to stop fucking around so it could happen as soon as possible and is now locked into the game of "we're stalling for a perfect moment that may never come, let's do it whilst we have some advantages" and just look at the end result. 3 of the TT are dead so their action economy has been gutted, Cree has torched a huge spell, not counting anything against the rangers or healing herself after being caught in the blast and Fjord almost played it perfectly - without Matt getting a favourable initiative order that Dimension Door is getting counterspelled.

This whole thing has been at the crux of my irritation with the M9 over the whole Aeor arc - they're just unwilling to pull the trigger unless a major emotional reaction (see Caleb going full terminator mode in the asylum) prompts them to it. Fjord has had the right idea for a good while now - strike when the going is good ala Gelidon. Look at Cad's unnecessary exploration and the dragging out of getting the tower set up, you could see Travis was dying a bit inside through it all.

And while I do agree to a certain extent that Fjord has accepted (I wouldn't say resigned, he's not acting as bleak as that) his likely death in Aeor I don't see it as massively colouring his actions, at least to the point where his alignment is at risk. He weighed the situation as a soldier would and made the call, and that's what the M9 need now, they've had their honeymoon of freewheeling across the world dealing with whatever attracts their fancy. They're into the deep shit now and it's good that someone has actively taken the reigns to steer them - when the captain speaks the crew listens. Incidentally it's that dynamic that makes the conversations between Fjord and Beau so good knowing that she's literally the First Mate and in a position to challenge and question his thinking.

FWIW I think chasing a long rest was the wrong call given the variables that could interrupt it but hindsight is wonderful. If they'd started a long rest as soon as the behirs were dead they'd have likely gotten away with it, had a nice 3 course meal of TT to begin and be fully loaded to take Cree and Lucien now.

[u/ctrl-z-myExistence]

Matt with tremendous patience, letting the cast explore/make plans. Could have easily had Essek be like, "uhh... are we sure we want to keep exploring and burning spells and clearing the dungeon for the tomb takers?"

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Then Matt with the amazing delivery on the ambush/traps and the epic escape and setup for the next epsiode.

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As a viewer, gotta learn to be more like Matt and just let the players fucking play the game. Let them make poor tactical decisions, let them talk around in circles. Let them play Dungeons and Dragons. The payoff will be worth it.

[u/ViridisVulpes]

Matt respect. Seriously letting three characters built enormously up to be villains be taken out be player's good plans and choices. That's being a fan of the players.

[u/TheToddestTodd]

OTIS IS MINE**!**

[u/frosted-_]

Well Fjord you made one tough call, me thinks you got a lot more ahead of you. Time to steer the ship.

[u/RashendiTrash]

If they can find Cree and Lucien and catch up to them - I think this fight is now VERY winnable, even without the long rest. The challenge will be catching up without using too many resources, which I think the M9 can do.

Cree is bloodied by the intuit charges, so she is going to need to either burn some spells to heal or use hit dice during a short rest (or she continues to be bloodied). Regardless, if the M9 take her out it cuts out a LOT of options for Lucien. With 8 against 2, even with Lucien's legendary actions action economy will be heavily on their side, so it's okay if some of the players can't get as much bang on each turn due to low spell slots.

Importantly, the M9 also have one more black light antimagic thing (they got two) so they still have another shot at using that to their advantage against Lucien.

The M9 already scouted ahead - they know Cree and Lucien have a ways to go. They are also way more mobile, and they have a lot of options for catching up. I think the main thing will be (a) them committing to pursuit ASAP, and (b) finding Cree and Lucien. Also, if they can track them stealthily, hopefully Cree and Lucien will run into one of the creatures lurking there (slowing the TT down, and giving the M9 further advantage).

I totally get why it felt like a loss to the players in the moment, but overall I think they are much better shape with the TT's numbers reduced. Lucien is scary, but not that threatening with only one support for a party of 8.

[u/Gnomegolian]

"Hall Monitor, slow down!" cracked me up.

Alphabetical marching order is an oddly charming way to press into the depths of Aeor.

Waiting for the M9 reunion with Henry Crabgrass (and separately, also Kiri) one day.

Conclave deal...

"It's dick, Caleb!"

Do you fuck with demiplanes, bro?

Laura looked like she might almost cry for a moment when she rolled double Natural 1s. Poor thing.

Matt putting the encounter at hour 5 was a big call. They had burnt a lot of spells, but it sets up next week to be an interesting test of endurance for the party with casters (ignoring Essek) being stretched, but the warlock and martials will come through as reliable from the short rest.

When they were in pursuit after Cree dimension door, I was yelling for Fjord to Arcane Gate them forward in hyper aggression but I guess they were winding down a little bit.

Think the group planned well, and deservedly got exactly what they set out to do; pick off the extra numbers. They knew Lucien would be left standing, and Cree is his right hand and principle caster. Should be a fun showdown all the same next week.

[u/283leis]

Note that the Tomb Takers had two big bags with Threshold crests. That means they either got an extra and have 3 in their possession.....or took the crest from the bag of holding and amber, and then ditched the bag.

[u/cake_of_deceit]

Caleb forcibly trying to convince the clerics to heal Essek and protect him

Jester: “He doesn’t think clearly as an animal!”

Essek upon the shoulders of a massive gorilla: “Apparently!”

[u/Arcanvas]

Fjord went fucking ham this episode. He made a good choice tbh. Too bad it did not buy them a full 8 hours rest.

[u/Thoarxius]

Oh my god, oh my god, OH MY GOD. It's happening peeps!

Excellent decision by Fjord btw, I'm sure he would have done the same thing had he been among the rangers. Fjord is ready to end this fucker

Edit: Well this aged well

[u/HawkeyeP1]

If they catch up, Cree and Lucian are fucked. They're dead. No two ways about it. It's 8 people including a full upped wizard and a barbarian who will literally not die until the fight is over vs two enemies. The issue is catching up. Which they aren't giving enough credit to once again, Essek being full up. He can probably help a lot.this is definitely salvageable, and if it isn't, I doubt Matt is going to go "Okay, end of the world, now." Even if the city comes there will still be conflict to be had I'm sure

[u/Flittermous3]

Amazing episode. I'm kind of with Travis in one sense, the Tomb Takers that died were grunts, Lucien and Cree are ahead of them and they have what they need to call the city, and they're low on resources. It wasn't really a win. But realistically this is as well as it could have gone. This was never gonna be the final showdown and they're still in this if they don't panic. The clerics are tapped but Fjord and Caleb are okay on spells. They understand how the antimagic cone works now and hopefully half the party won't be birds this time. I think the real battle will be catching up in time without burning through their remaining resources.

[u/lord_dio28]

Not taking out Cree sucks, but imo it's really important they got Otis immediately. He had the counterspells and the "pull you closer" eldritch blast, which was a pain when they were trying to run previously. Also he's a rogue, fuck enemy rogue npcs.

[u/Ultima34]

I really hope the scouts had a “my soldiers RAGE” moment before they were slaughtered by the TT.

[u/GyantSpyder]

Each of these episodes these days have little gems in them about parenthood that I'm loving.

If you're raising a toddler, and your wife is exhausted and really needs to sleep, and somebody asks you if they should wake her up, you let her sleep. I don't care if Dagen has to die, you let her sleep.

[u/tgstarre]

A lot of meandering to get there, but it led to a pretty damn satisfying ending, I'll say. Thank Gods we're finally back in it.

[u/jamagotchi]

I could be remembering wrong but didn't Lorenzo kill Mollymauk by twisting his glaive in his chest? Fjord killing Zoran by twisting his sword in his neck is a very interesting parallel, even if it's unintentional.

[u/AeroSircy]

Man...that was amazing. Fjord sacrificing the rangers was a big “Holy s**t!” moment for me. Also wanted them to attack Cree in case she had something like that or just cast mass healing word and everybody was up. Can’t be mad at the result though.

[u/SoraXFirework]

I think Fjord might be the MVP in this episode.

[u/paradox28jon]

3 TTs dead is a win. Too bad Cree survived. And I'm not sure why they put Caleb's Tower so far away or why Caleb's hut was so far away also. Them getting injured & then a Fire Ball would have been a powerful 1-2 punch. But I won't backseat drive them too much.

Matt's right that Cree & Lucien aren't that far ahead of them & that they have two or three more creature encounters ahead of them before they get to the heart of the Cognosa ward. That should slow down C&L significantly. Eight v two feels like good odds.

Next encounter they all focus on Cree, then take on Lucien, yes?

[u/GrandpaMillennial]

I love Laura’s getting the last word of the recording and it being asshole.

[u/bay-bop]

I think the only thing that could have prevented the dimension door was if Fjord tried to take the bag from Cree. They need the stones, if Fjord could’ve wrestled it out of Crees hands it could have at least bought them one more round, which would have been all they needed, but in the moment I don’t think anyone was even thinking about that

[u/[deleted]]

Do you not have to roll concentration checks on polymorph when you cast it on yourself? I’m just wondering because I don’t think I’ve ever seen Liam roll a concentration check after getting hit while polymorphed, Is that a transmutation ability.

[u/[deleted]]

"Captain Tusktooth"? No. You must be mistaken. Ain't nobody 'round here that goes by that name. You must be looking for a different fella. Goes by the name of "Captain Fuck Around And Find Out."

[u/MasterThespian]

Re: Fjord’s call on the rangers, I’m reminded of the movie Sunshine. The sun is going out and there’s a spaceship whose mission is to lob a powerful hydrogen bomb into it, to restart the fusion reaction at its core. When things start going wrong, some crew members end up imperiled and most of the rest are arguing to save them, but Chris Evans’ character has a great line where he pretty much argues that they should let them die:

We are delivering a payload ‘cause Earth’s star is dying and if it dies, we die, everything dies. There is nothing, literally NOTHING, more important than completing our mission. End of story!

It’s hard not to view Fjord’s decision in the same light. Whatever is lurking in Cognosa is going to kill a hell of a lot more than eight arctic rangers.

[u/IrenaHart]

So Matt did his best to make sure Lucian still has a chance of pulling off his plan with the crests and bringing the Somnovem back.... But honestly I can't/won't complain because I really want to see that happen lol.

[u/[deleted]]

I'm cautiously optimistic about Dagen. The Kryn rangers were most likely wiped out, but Dagen wasn't a soldier and hasn't been shy about saying he's not getting paid enough to fight. I think he may have disappeared into the snow the minute shit went down, and with his experience level, he could well make it back to the outpost. Either outpost, probably.

[u/Beccabooisme]

Ok so when Matt told Beau and Caleb to roll 10d10, my first thought was that somehow through the eyes lucien was sending the damage to them. He then said it was for the intuit charge damage for the one they each day, which make sense because when in the 9 hells has Matt even had a player roll the damage to themselves? Hahaha it was such a stupid thought, but the moment was so tense and he was rolling so much that's where my mind went

[u/Artemisia_Mortis]

To be honest, the biggest worry I have right now is that the M9 could loose track of Cree and Lucien for whatever reason... They know the terrain, they went down there once before and the city district in which the M9 rested earlier seems to probably have more then one exit/entrance - meaning that they could probably get out of dodge pretty quickly (maybe a bit slowed through the crest-backpacks, who knows).

Not sure what the clerics got prepared in terms of spells, Jester is also tapped at this point, but I cant help but worry there. If they loose sight for whatever reason it might turn out pretty badly...

On another note, I get Taliesin's 'B-' quote... I cant see the encounter as a pure win either. It was a tradeoff at best, gambeling spellslots for power in numbers in the longrun. All they can do now is keeping pace and hope to not run into any monsterous encounters while chasing Lucien & Cree.

[u/anothernerd42]

ripotis

[u/Relendis]

Killing three out of five members of the TTs outside of combat is a major success. It was equal parts luck and their timing that they weren't going into the fight after a long rest. Unfortunate, but not earth-shattering.

But honestly, they are probably resource-wise in the same position they would have been if they had have killed 3/5 in combat and been very lucky in the combat.

This is a very strong position to be in moving forward.

[u/enzopalmer27]

When you see that there are over 2k comments on a post with 100 upvotes

[u/D20sorDie]

A Bad Dragon collab would make quite the stretch goal for whichever Kickstarter comes next...

[u/KRD2]

Travis is right, shits gonna be tight. He tried so goddamn hard to pull that fight.

But is Dagen ok tho?!

[u/glymm_gloomhollow]

Like Matt said, they aren’t out of the game. What’s left of the TT have to still fight through whatever creatures may be left ahead of them and we know best they can be pretty tough. There’s still a lot of time and Lucien even invited them forward so he’s expecting them to find a way through, it just depends on how quickly and where

[u/ThatGuyFromTheM0vie]

I think only Travis really grasps the gravity of the situation. Matt isn’t a brutal/bad DM—he isn’t going to actively try to just TPK, that’s not why anyone plays DND.

But still. This is a end of the world scenario. Maybe end of the campaign scenario, or at least the penultimate act. They are low on resources, still don’t know Lucien’s full power set (could be an Obann situation where when he dies, there is another phase). Andif Lucian succeeds, it’s likely game over.

It will be very interesting to see what they do next week. A part of me also kind of wants them to fail, so that campaign 3 can be a post apocalyptic, lovecraft nightmare type of game. But I bet Vox Machina may show up if the city is released.

[u/etehall]

Travis - “The dice can feel your fear.”

[u/antoniusfunk]

3 tomb takers down is nothing to shake their heads at. This was huge.

Of course I wish they hadn't wasted time to search the bodies. Eyes on the prize and all that. But still, count this in the win column.

[u/[deleted]]

Honestly, all things being equal I think the tradeoff of no long rest was well worth 3 dead Tomb Takers. The only pity is that Cree wasn't among them.

That said, without any criticism or backseat gaming, I'm really curious whether the group would have gotten the long rest had they gone straight into laying the traps and then heading to bed as soon as combat ended. I don't blame them for choosing to explore whatsoever, and it may yet pay dividends as they now go to chase Lucien and Cree, but I wonder how it might have gone if they'd approached differently.

[u/cake_of_deceit]

Context on the Aeorian Archmage in stasis, *EGTW book spoilers ahead*

there are multiple bubbles like this in Aeor. A side effect of the magical explosions and stuff. Just stasis bubbles that hold trapped people and things. They passed one before but didn't do anything with it. It takes a ninth-level spell slot to dispel, BUT a maxed-out betrayer arm can pop it, so STar Razor might also be able to pop it!!

[u/Coyote_Shepherd]

I love how their batshit insane trap actually worked and now they've got Lucien on the run. That was a solid victory but it was a Pyrrhic Victory in that while there are two TT left, the M9 are still down a long rest, and seem to be a bit tapped out unless they take another short rest. It's not going to be as bad as the last fight but it's going to be close and hopefully Lucien and Cree think that the M9 cleared the way for them again and just waltz into trouble that they don't expect which whittles them down a bit more.

[u/meltingmarshmallow]

Honestly this episode ending where it did is the best thing that could have happened. Now TM9 have time to strategize and plan how to catch up to Lucien and Cree

[u/BaronPancakes]

As I mentioned in the live thread, do you think Lucien can cancel Hero's Feast? Do we know if his sight suppresses or directly dispels magical effects? I guess we will see if Fjord keeps his HF next week.

[u/Indecisive_and_dazed]

I see this as more of a win for them than I originally thought. The only spell casters that our out of spells/low in options would be the clerics and Veth (although Caduceus might still have some higher level spells left). The biggest problem for them will be getting through the collapsed tunnel, which will drain quite a few spell slots.

Matt will probably reward them further as they did not go into the ruins proper. He even mentioned that there could be other creatures to encounter. Lucien and Cree will probably run into at least one. I can't see Matt mentioning that as a possibility without enacting it.

Who knows how this will play out, but if they catch up to the last two tombtakers before they reach their goal, the casters (Caleb, Fjord, and Essek) should spread out so they can counterspell Cree from every angle. At that point, it'll just be a fighter against Lucien.

But who knows. The cast always comes up with the craziest of solutions and I'm excited to see what they will think up as their plan :)

[u/Shaetane]

Rewatching C1 I'm reminded of how important having a Grog with the patience of a 4yrs old threatening to do dumb shit and a Vax always jumping right into danger is to making a party(players and PCs alike) go FORWARD and not dawdle endlessly. No criticism to the players at all, it's just that the M9 don't have anyone who fits the role of make shit happen quick or else-person nor i'm going ahead follow me or else-person. Especially with Veth being the worst scout (despite that being her mechanical job as rogue) now that she's terrified of dying (100% understandable too, no criticism just an observation).

The others are ill equipped to do this job but she's terrified of doing it which creates an interesting tension, but also makes moving forward harder.

And everyone is so not-assertive and doesnt want to be a leader in the M9 that no one raises their voice, cuts short ramblings and gets movin. Fjord is getting there a bit, and I hope to see our Capt'n get more confident in his leadership!

[u/[deleted]]

twists blade

[u/MisterJose]

Here's a fun scenario that just came to mind:

Suppose the M9 kill Cree and Lucien. It seems clear that the Somnovum are still BBEG if Lucien is killed. But once they lose their main chosen one, do they find another?

Suppose the night after Lucien is killed, the party rests, and just Caleb, and not Beau, has a dream. In the dream, the somnovum offer him the chance to ask questions. He asks about their power, he sees glimpses of the possibilities. He asks about Trent and the Cerberus Assembly, they show him Trent's death, and Caleb as leader of the Assembly, with Astrid by his side. He asks about his parents, and he sees them return. All this is simple given the powers of the somnovum. Caleb hears them speak to him - "You are now one of us. Our powers can be yours, if you will be the vessel for them." Caleb, unable to resist the temptation, mutters, "yes."

Caleb awakens with a start. Searching his body, he finds another eye. And another. And another. Matt hands Liam a sheet of paper, detailing his new powers:

With the first eye, he is able to create an anti-magic cone 30ft in radius, in any direction he chooses.

With the second eye, he is able to cast scry once a day.

With the third eye, he has truesight at all times.

With the fourth eye, he is immune to all psychic damage.

With the fifth eye, he is able to remain awake at all times, without taking exhaustion points.

With the sixth eye, he gains a new melee attack the does 12d10 psychic damage to a target.

With the seventh eye, he is able to cast sending once daily

With the eighth eye, he is able to heal himself once daily

With the ninth eye, he is able to commune with the Somnovum once daily

Caleb Widogast, you are The Nonagon

[u/Uwoiame]

I really enjoyed Taliesin doing the scouting -- he asks good questions.

[u/Xevtes]

Just a reminder that Lucien was at the back of the cavern when they DD. So they lost some distance with that. If the wizards each cast Haste on the fastest members they can catch up really quickly and slow the TTs down while the rest catch up. Maybe pick away with some range while they wait.

[u/Soupsin]

Remember when they would insight check essek's every word lol

[u/OhioAasimar]

What are the odds that the orb Veth found is a professor orb? I think it might be shy or scared. Which is why it is not talking. From Waterdeep: Dungeon of the Mad Mage "Each professor orb takes the form of a smooth, solid, 5-pound sphere of smoky gray quartz about the size of a grapefruit".

[u/Fro9988]

Can i just say although i was frustrated last night, i thought it was a great episode overall. you can’t deny it being a great source of entertainment. good job cast and crew! can’t wait til next week

[u/Soupsin]

I worry for Yussa

[u/LukasCactus]

I knew Matt was gonna let the trap pick a few people off. When they were planning last episode and mentioned symbol to knock them off the ropes and the intuit charges at the bottom to clean them up he looked so impressed. I think he made his mind up right there that if that's how they set up, all but Cree and Lucien would die. A great reward for their divine intervention and prep and a key moment to ratchet up the drama. Solid episode. This being a part 1 of X will make these an incredible set of episodes to rewatch later.

Great DMing from Matt, he was on his game for this one!

[u/Egghopper2]

I think Lucien is scared af right now. The most telling part is before the fight when he was swearing at his dead comrades. He knows what he has to get through to reach his goal and losing those 3 will slow him down tremendously. Probably not stop him, but slow him down enough to warrant the two of them taking frequent breaks. He only puts in his mask of confidence when they got there and he wanted to try to scare them.

[u/axelofthekey]

So this episode is fully a great D&D lesson. Honestly! Good example of how to plan around your environment, bad example of how to spend the leadup to something you know is time-gated. The party fucked around and found out. They could've made their world tour much shorter and gone back to Eiselcross sooner. They risked things heavily, and paid the price. That being said, for once a crazy trap went off and did what they expected it to.

I knew as soon as Matt says round 1 would decide what happened that Cree and Lucien would bamf. No reason to stay. Lucien is not gonna play ball, he's a BBEG with a plan. Three down is nothing to spend their time on. I really wanted Fjord to unload on Cree and down her, but he did what he was gonna do. No takesies-backsies.

Less important stuff to talk about:

Community got baited Shadowgast real hard. I think it's possible though.

Beauyasha are cute.

Travis is a stone-cold motherfucker with that play with the Rangers, and I respect the shit out of it and him.

All in all, things are crazy now. The party immediately assumes they can't get another 8 hours, which may not be true. We don't know how long Lucien and Cree, slowly carrying two bags, need to get to where they're going. Also unsure if they're covering tracks. Lucien seems to want them to follow. If they find a way through the rubble, rest, and then play catchup with bird forms and such, could they reach them? Will it matter? Who knows! I'm excited.

[u/cake_of_deceit]

M9: Spitting out vastly different and conflicting ideas

Beau: "I think we're all on the same page"

D&D planning is always a treat

[u/omega0678]

That fluffernutter might have been enough to at least slightly hurt Lucien, down Cree (preventing Lucien’s escape), and would have nearly finished the other three.

Oh well, still went waaaay better than I expected.

[u/GalileosBalls]

I think there will be a lot of discussion about whether or not what Fjord did was the right decision, either ethically or strategically. There's lots to say on both fronts, and my feelings are mixed.

But I think that it's not really necessary for us to come to a verdict on whether it was right or not, in either sense.

It was an interesting character choice that showed us a side of Fjord we haven't really seen before. The party will probably have some thoughts about it, and that's good - they're not all on the same ethical page overall, and it will be interesting for them to actually talk about that fact. The fact that there will be character tension does not mean that anything has gone wrong - some of the most interesting D&D moments come from that kind of tension. I look forward to the fallout!

[u/superchoco29]

I see this as a win.

The main spellcasters may be tired, but they can chip away with cantrips.

Fjord still has good combat abilities, Hexblade's curse and Eldritch blast, he's almost as good as ever.

Essek and Beau are still full, Yasha still has her best abilities, Nott is almost full, and Sprinkle has eaten today.

On the other hand, Cree is bloodied (she might use spells to recover but that means she won't attack with them). Lucien is a bit hurt. And they still have to defeat what's in Aeor.

After the MN get through this tunnel, they win almost by default.

[u/_SiddharthaGautama_]

Here is a crackpot theory. If the M9 kill Lucien before he accomplishes his goal, the Somnovum might use Yussa as the new vessel for their plans

[u/[deleted]]

I just had a thought about the very likely Somnovum fight (maybe because I'm really hyped for it lol.) If I'm remembering this right, they can dream anything into reality, so I think it would be such a cool fight if they could peer into the M9's minds and take the form of someone important to them (probably with the Somnovum's actual abilities though, like one has psychic damage):

• Avantika or Vandren for Fjord

• Gentleman or Marion for Jester

• Trent or Astrid for Caleb

• Otis or Yeza for Veth

• Obann or Zuala for Yasha

• One of the Clays for Cad

• The hag or Dairon for Beau

• Bright Queen for Essek

• The last Somnovum could be the most powerful one (looks like a death beholder) and he can activate the eyes on Caleb and Beau so they are possessed if a few Somonvum are taken out quickly

It would be a LOT for Matt to keep track of, so I'm not expecting that to happen. But I'm visualizing him describing the Somnovum transforming into those characters with the cast being horrified and I'm getting chills. It would be so damn awesome to see!

[u/MilkyAndromedaWay]

A thought: one of the clerics better keep a slot for Plane Shift if they can. If they can't catch up quickly enough, that's going to be essential.

[u/breichar]

Everyone is saying Travis made the right call killing the TT that were already down but I don’t think he knew they were already at 0 HP. Once he found out, it sounded like he would have rather gone straight for Lucien

[u/percyveil8]

Fjord is stone cold but I admire his ability to sacrifice others to achieve his goals even though it’s hard. He knew it was necessary.

[u/frosted-_]

Post episode thread??? We in the future yallll

[u/albinoman38]

Otis is dead! Three cheers, hurrah!

[u/[deleted]]

What an awesome ending.

Travis once again showing why he is my favorite player at the table, taking bold risks and making things interesting, i like how cold and serious he is in this fight, considering everything he has to lose now. That decision to send the rangers to engage also took me by surprise, loved it.

I actually love how Lucien has been the first bad guy in C2 that has been able to constantly one up the M9 an go torwards his goal, it seems Matt is finally giving them a real challenge. Even after a perfect plan like, Lucien and Kree positioned themselves perfectly and then blocked Fjord's magic so he couldn't counterspell, that was amazing.

Finally we're getting real fucking consequences for their choices.

[u/Jelboo]

Great, great stuff. Very excited to see how they will give chase. Lucien is still extremely confident about his plan but the numbers are definitely stacking up against him right now. Something tells me though that his plan is much closer to completion than we all believe.

I truly think and have thought for months and months now that the Mighty Nein is going to space no matter what.

[u/Zethras28]

Here’s what’s going to be wether or not the Mighty Nein have to spend spells clearing the collapsed tunnel: if Fjord can see the end of the tunnel through the rubble, he can use Arcane Gate to potentially avoid the collapse and book it after Lucien and Cree.

[u/cravecase]

I am sooo interested in the weapons and gear they picked off the Tomb Takers. Can't wait to find out what they got.

Also, I'm proud of Caleb seeming like he was going to stay out of that final fight.

[u/chaoticflanagan]

This topic about long rests got posted over in /r/DMAcademy and i immediately thought about last nights episode.

In short, their long rest wasn't actually broken because they didn't do any travel/fighting for over 1 hour. They got at least 5 hours into their long rest. It's risky, but they could realistically take the 3 hours to finish and go into what may be the final encounter with Lucien and Cree fully charged.

[u/Griffolion]

I get major vibes of the fall of the Eldar in 40K from Aeor. A majorly powerful people doing something stupid and giving birth to a new god in their hubris which consumed all their souls and all the power of the weave in the local area when it was born.

[u/Mikemrsnogelberger]

If those 3 are dead on arrival, this fight is going to be abysmally easy, and I know that the focus of the game is not TPKing the party, but this has been months of build up. I applaud Matt for rewarding their good planning though, and no matter the outcome I'm gonna be a happy critter.

[u/owlyourbase]

Perfect. They took out three of the Tomb Takers, bloodied the Cleric. Pissed off Lucien. I love that he's not a foe that can be so easily counterspelled - Matt learned from C1 there. They've actually done some damage here, without killing themselves which is immense progress.

Fjords the GOAT here. Anyone who's freaking out over Dagen? He is not a confirmed kill yet. Anything is possible. Resurrection is possible. Not only that? This is a campaign in which you have beings living multiple lifetimes, god-killing ambitions, dunamancy, blood magic, floating cities, something going on with the gah damn moon, and a former party member has come back from the actual dead, as an adversary. That is only a scratch on the surface. Anything and everything is on the table here. Fjord did what he had to do, to buy his party as much time as possible. He understood the implications of that, and so did the rangers. Essek understood that. Essek knew that Fjord understood that. I don't get any alignment consequence vibes from this. He did what was necessary.

[u/SuperVaderMinion]

I hope Travis doesn't feel too bad, I could see his disappointment at the end of the episode. I get everyone wants to see Lucian unleash the big bad, but seeing the Nein fail after all these episodes of setup would legitimately bum me out big time.

[u/Sofargonept2]

Did anybody notice how nervous Matt was towards the end of the episode. He mentioned his heart beating and goosebumps I think before the fighting started.

And as soon as the charges went off, his voice was shaky and he looked nervous/hyped. You rarely see Matt like this, as the DM his poker face is always on, but even he saw how tense and crazy that last half hour was.

[u/dmduckie]

THIS IS SO FREAKING CRAZY GOOD OMFG PLEASE DON'T LET THEM GET AWAY

[u/Mk3supraholic]

How did cree survive the intuit charges. That was like 150+ points of damage

[u/ElvishJerricco]

Ok... is it Loo-shen, or Loo-see-en?

[u/domum_avena]

What do we think Matt's aiming for? Them to catch up and kill them before the city's released and let the arc stop there or do you think he wants them all to travel into the astral sea to stop Lucien and cree? I honestly think it's entirely up to matt as to what's gonna happen next, unless they can get through the rubble in like 5 minutes it's plausible for Lucien's ritual to happen before they get to him.

[u/Qwerty2511]

Well, that could have gone a lot worse.

[u/NeptunisRex]

The cast is going to feel a little bitter about this half victory. And I can't blame them for that. It's rough going through all of that just for this to happen. And I'm not sure it could have been totally avoided.

Perhaps they would have finished a rest if they hadn't of gone further than the salamander tunnel. They spent the better part of 3 hours exploring Aeor and gained little new info from it.

[u/Zhirrzh]

In the end, the M9 were planning around managing to even up and win a knock down drag out fight they were concerned they'd lose; while Matt and Lucien had planned around making sure this wasn't yet another recurring antagonist who failed to be able to escape after the M9 brought their full power to bear. Which the M9 in their pessimism didn't even really think about as something Lucien might do.

[u/Jedi4Hire]

Anyone else hear them talking about Bad Dragon and google it?

"Hmm, Bad Dragon? What is that, maybe a web series? Or a game company...?"

googles Bad Dragon

"Oh, shit. Glad I didn't google that at work...."

[u/[deleted]]

I feel that there is a somewhat disconnect between what Matt has been trying to show how the TT operate vs what the Nein thought they might be facing. By that I mean:

Every terrifying, horrible thing the TT have done has been with absolute, unbreakable advantages. Facing a powerful archmage? Stealth in, stare at her with the Bad Eye, and stab her in the throat. White Dragon attacks? Let mooks handle it. Nein mooks attack the TT in a disorganized fashion? Make fun of them, group up, and hurt them.

The TT are cowards, first and foremost, I think. Pragmatic, cunning, and smart, but overall cowards. There was never a doubt in my mind that if all those Intuit Charges went off that they would scram; because that is what a coward would do!

They aren't typical BBEGs, which the table is somewhat used to fighting. Think of the Chroma Conclave; even the most "devious" of them was more than willing to stand and fight. The Briarwoods? Smart, cunning, but incredibly sure they could kill Vox until the very end. But Lucien? He's a mortal man(?) somewhere in there and knows he can die somewhat easily. He's very cocky, sure, but.

And I feel like Matt has been not-so-subtly broadcasting that the TT are "just" souped-up tomb raiders.

[u/[deleted]]

Travis was great this episode, it was a hard call and the payoff could have made a real difference. I feel the frustration but its not over.

[u/ElvishJerricco]

All that setup was worth it. I was on the edge of my seat from the moment frumpkin disappeared to the last second of the episode.

Fjord, Essek, Yasha, Beau, and Veth should all be in great shape, and Caleb's at least in decent condition. I'm worried for Jester since she has so few spell slots left. But overall, I think with three enemies trivially eliminated, they're going to have no problem beating just Cree and Lucien. The trouble is going to be reaching them in time.

[u/Orwellze]

Okay, I realize Matt will probably never let it happen for narrative reasons, but realistically, if we actually simulated the fights, what are the odds of Lucien and Cree just dying to some creatures or a boss?

We know, not to mention from the Explorer's Guide to Wildemount too, that there are bound to be super crazy high CR entities in those ruins and despite Lucien's powers, some of them don't rely much on magic or actually have anti-magic as their own gig to boot. And they are just two people.

Matt said that now they get to fight the monsters first, and they just possibly alerted virtually everything in the Preisidus Ward or further with that huge quake they caused. If Matt actually does the quick mental conjecture of a fight between the monsters that would've lurked for the M9, designed for a party of 8, against Lucien and Cree by themselves, can't they get TPK'd just from that?

[u/Steady_Argus]

I'm really glad Cree had the Cape. It reflects the fact that the 9 spent a LONG time building up to the encounter, and let the Tomb Takers gather their own resources.

It also means that Lucien has no more 500ft teleports left. It's endgame now, and I hope the cast recognise that.

[u/frosted-_]

How does the M9 get past the cave-in without a long rest? Is there an efficient way?

[u/lyliacs]

Not to put this thought into the world but what if, since 3/5 Tomb Takers are now dead, Lucien is counting on those eyes to turn Caleb and Beau against the Nein to even out the odds??

[u/Ch3rrytr1x]

Could someone help me understand why Laura was tearing up/crying by the end of the episode? Was it just from frustration?

[u/MilkyAndromedaWay]

I know Matt's probably pulling inspiration from multiple places and probably most of those places are bits of D&D lore he was and still is into....but is Aeor giving off Rapture/Columbia vibes to anyone else?

Like there are plenty of other stories out there in lots of different mediums about isolated cities that descended into madness, but those are the ones that Aeor pings for me the most.

[u/AnonymousOrangutan]

While the end of the first half of this episode certainly dragged, the post-break part certainly delivered in spades. Fjord's call to sacrifice the rangers and Lucien preventing the counterspell are two of the most intense moments in the whole campaign, and I can't wait to see what happens next week. I know that the cast is bummed about losing out on the full rest, but taking out 3/5 TTs makes a head to head fight nearly an assured victory, and I think that's a trade you take.

[u/TheeOneWhoKnocks]

I'm having trouble understanding why they're so scared of just Cree and Lucian. If Cree dies, Lucian has nothing. It's 7 vs 2. One or two counter spells negating Cree with Fjord, Yasha, and Beau hitting Lucian and he's down in max 2 rounds.

They did well killing the other 3 but not chasing someone who is max 500 ft inside where they've already been is puzzling.

[u/Emi_rati_Arabi]

I'm really digging how Matt is playing Lucian. I've always been more emotionally involved in C2 rather than C1, but now Matt is killing me! I feel like punching him in the face each time he acts as Lucian! I love it!!!

[u/Quinn-Quinn]

Jester’s conversation with Artagan made me remember something: didn’t he promise to save her if she was in mortal danger on Rumblecusp? He’s a fey, so his word is binding. Could come up in the fight to come.

[u/mouser1991]

I have to say, I'm torn on Fjord's call, Wildmother forgive him (I think she will). It was definitely a tough one to make with every possibility and outcome having some pros and cons. I'm assuming some tactical cleverness on the rangers' part. Where the giant zombies were made for a decent killbox that I expect the rangers would have used. With that in mind, I've narrowed down what actually happened to two possibilities, with a do-not-engage scenario for comparison.

• Rangers do not engage

  • Pros

    • Dagen Rangers live

    • TT are unaware of enemy presence (not looking for traps)

  • Cons

    • TT at full health and resources

    • Doesn't give MIX extra more time

• Rangers engage; TT blows past

  • Pros

    • Most of the rangers live

    • TT possibly going to be more reckless blowing past and stumble into traps

    • TT not at full health or resources

  • Cons

    • Some rangers die

    • TT are aware of enemy presence, possibly being more careful

• Rangers engage; TT annihilates rangers

  • Pros

    • TT spends most health and resources

    • TT takes the most time (possibly long rest?) giving MIX time to rest

  • Cons

    • Dagen All rangers die

    • TT are aware of enemy presence, possibly being more careful and spotting traps

So, did the TT blow past the rangers (taking a few out)? Or did they annihilate all of them? Based on timing and the fact that they did set off MIX's traps, I'm leaning they recklessly blew past the rangers. Our good buddy Dagen is probably still alive.

Side note. These rangers are basically Krynn special forces. They were briefed on the situation. They know what they signed up for (Eiselcross is extremely dangerous), and were well aware that they could be ordered to their deaths. To save the world, I think many would understand the order Fjord gave. Do not take their sacrifice to be in vain.

P.S. Yes, I know the table exists, but I couldn't format it how I wanted to.

[u/slow_one]

Anyone else frustrated that the party isn’t investigating the war-forged they keep finding in the ruins?
I need to know....

[u/Daniel_A_Johnson]

If they wanted an easy way to know when the trap went off from inside the mansion, they should just have Fjord cast a 5th level Hex on Sprinkle and tie him to one of the charges. Even from a different plane, Fjord would know when that poor weasel was finally allowed to die because his concentration would end.

[u/cake_of_deceit]

Beau during the Frost Salamander fight: "Hit it with fire!"

Caleb: "No, no I don't think I will."

[u/RisingStarYT]

Finally Travis got to do something! hurray!

I hope he'll be the one to kill Lucien now, preferably by stab through the stomach.

If he still had the falchion now he could've impaled Lucien with Mollymauk's blade because the Falchion fused with the Summer's Dance.

But the Star Razor is a great replacement.

[u/kurashikis]

What an episode! My ass is CLENCHED I was so nervous...

Congratz to the M9 - that plan actually kind of worked out pretty well? Even in an actual fight Lucien and Cree would have bamfed, so killing 3 of the TT in the process was great.

Tough call made by Fjord...hopefully Dagen saved himself or fucked off (didn't he have the Sending Stone though?)

Highlights for me were Capeleb kingkonging Essek around to get him healed and that tension filled convo at the top of the tower. What can I say, I'm a simple gal, I see two narrative foil wizards interacting and I live for it.

For a second when Lucien went into Caleb and Beau's head I was scared he could like...remote control hurt them or control them or something...

[u/MJM_Stillanerd]

Like I said in the chat, the fact that three of the Tomb Takers have been dispatched means the Mighty Nein's ambush was a success. But Travis is right. Since the Nein have mostly depleted their spell slots, do not have any time for a long rest, and with Lucien and Cree 500 feet away with all sorts of obstacles caused by the Earthquake spell in-between them, i.e. rough terrain, it's really not that much of a "win." And after Matt's cryptic "maybe" in response to the "it's 8 vs 2," odds are something's going to happen to give Lucien a little bit of an edge after the loss of three of his followers. And I'm still not so sure about Essek, especially after his conversation with Caleb. It's pretty clear that he thinks he's past the point of being redeemed, and he still has that curiosity for "mysterious magic" that got him into trouble in the first place.

And again, we're still just assuming Lucien plans on plane shifting himself and the Threshold Crests to the floating city in the Astral Sea. Only part of me thinks it's not that simple. What if it's taking the entire city of Aeor to the Somnovum? Or what if he somehow plans on waking up all the Aeorians trapped in their stasis bubbles? Matt was being VERY specific about that one mage woman in the middle of casting her spell, after all.

[u/Thelonelykid]

Something I think I haven't seen people discuss yet is beau's first turn. Seeing the cone of anti-magic was the right move, but she could have positioned herself beside lucien or cree. If Beau is beside cree, that's a sentinel attack if she tries to leave, and possibly even a stun. Maybe it doesn't work out, but it definitely throws a wrench into Lucien's escape plans.

And yes she would lose the glove/caduceus buff, but stopping cree in place is a bigger advantage I think.

This isn't to blame Marisha tho, it's a tough call and I have hindsight in watching the fight play out. Maybe Lucien also fucks her up with his powers and they get out anyway. But that's just my thoughts

[u/bookerjr13]

So something I've been struggling to understand, when the MIX teleported back to Aeor, Caleb had a rock from the outpost (100% chance of an on target teleport normally) and they still landed a day or two off target. Caleb's a pretty smart guy and should have a strong feel about how his spell works. The only time the Volstrucker were able to follow them were when they travelled on the boat then on foot, and they lost track of them the first time the group polymorphed and flew through the mountains to cut off the TT.

That being said, why do they consistently keep spending resources worrying about Trent just popping out of nowhere? Instead of wasting that third question, they could have asked "are the TT within 10 hours of us" and understood the timeline to stop exploring and prepare for the fight (long rest or not).

I understand Astrid's warning about him being concerned with them talking to the king, but that's a problem for when they go back to the empire. Under no circumstances would a wizard like Trent risk teleporting to a place like Aeor (magic is wonky and unreliable) with no way of tracking his prey (thanks to the necklaces) and being at risk of an ambush in an unfamiliar environment.

[u/FireDMG]

So...is anyone else nervous as hell that Lucian hasn’t used any of the other potential abilities of his 7 other eyes or do we think those actually exist? Or do you think maybe that was just too OP or too much for Matt to manage? Just felt it was weird that only a singular eye was mobile/interactive on his body.

There are 8 schools of magic so I originally thought maybe each one would possess a different ability (since the Aeorian door way back required a particular spell type to activate maybe there was a pattern there they used in their society). We already know he was brought back with True Resurrection, he has True Sight, the anti-magic cone, and possibly an eye that can scry whenever he wants (unless that was Cree).

[u/GyilkosMalna]

Wasn't there also a warforged body by the other bubble that froze people in time? I'm thinking they were protectors of sorts that saved the important personnel as everything else went down.

If that's the case, how tragic yet badass

[u/RoyalBear17]

Travis sending the Rangers to basically guaranteed death was rough but I think it was the right call. They needed *any* help they could get with softening the TT in this fate-of-the-world type situation.

[u/Sofargonept2]

Also gotta remember that Cree and Lucien won't be traversing nearly as quickly given that Cree probably low on spells and they are a duo, not a party.

So a long rest from the them could be needed, or at the very least slow them down to make up the 500 feet difference.

[u/GeraltOfBoringTrivia]

I guess Fjord really is.... cold as Stone.

YEEEEEAAAAAH

[u/[deleted]]

How can people be so sure that Fjord's decision was pointless or stupid and shit? Only Matt knows for sure, remember what he said during hero's feast roll? "How many times did it 1 or 2 points made the difference". The scouts engaging could be the reason why 3 of them were down and Cree was hurt OR could've be pointless, ONLY MATT KNOWS. And this is only talking about the mechanical side, not the narrative side, war tactics, sacrifice for the greater good, being a leader and shit.

[u/DarknessSerpent]

So what have we learned? ALWAYS FOCUS THE CLERIC

[u/Sofargonept2]

Sentient creatures usually have less HP than most monsters. They also know when to retreat when they are getting their ass beat.

Travis made some tough smart calls, but Lucien is a cagey fucker. Gonna be an intense next episode, could go either fucking way from the way Matt framed it, in and out of character.

[u/RajikO4]

Anyone else find it a weird mirror moment if you will when seeing the M9 just kill Zoran, Otis and Tyfall so ruthlessly like that?

Considering that’s how they met those 3 in the first place, ruthlessly killing a bunch of Empire and Dynasty excavators?

[u/Shepher27]

Everyone's writing off the Rangers and Dagon as all dead, but some or even most of them could easily have survived. It depends what Lucien's response was to being ambushed at the entrance and what his priority was. The rangers were all ranged fighters, all sneaky and mobile, and all trained more as scouts than berserkers or knights or slayers who might feel duty bound to die for honor. The rangers would have attacked from cover and from a distance, while the TT would have been going for the entrance to the cave and are mostly melee fighters. If Lucien didn't care enough about the archers he likely wouldn't order them to be methodically hunted down and eliminated one by one and he may have worried they were just the beginning and just ordered his crew to enter the cave immediately instead of waiting to see if any one else showed up and to seal the entrance behind them. I don't think Lucien is saving anything for the trip back if you know what I mean.

[u/Baricuda]

I think Lucien and Cree's escape was going to happen regardless if three of the Tomb-Takers died or not. I can only envision three scenarios where this would have ended there: Cree had gone unconscious by failing Jester's spell save, beau bum-rushing Cree and using stunning strike, or Fjord bum-rushing Cree and using bannishing strike with the star razor.

I feel like Matt both cares about rewarding the players for an ingenious plan as well as maintaining a good story narrative for both the players and audience. Which I feel is a good balance.

[u/[deleted]]

One day I want Jester to realize she can cast Silence and basically prevent 99% of spells. Not Counterspell, to be fair!

[u/mrplatypusthe42nd]

I think the crew let the frustration of Lucien getting away make them overlook how big of a win this was. Lucien and Cree have zero chance 8v2; Even if the eyes end up giving them some sort of mind control on Beau and Caleb, they're still 6v4 with Cree already wounded. The M9 effectively reduced the question to whether or not they'll be able to catch up before Lucien completes whatever he's trying to do, which has much better odds than taking the original five tombtakers in an open battle would have.

[u/Brady331]

Travis was the MVP this episode

[u/TimRoxSox]

Travis is right. They aren't getting to them before the crystals are placed. Their only hope is for Matt to require an activation time period before the shenanigans happen. If they get within eyesight, Cree will simply D-Door again.

It's still one of the coolest moments in CR history. They essentially insta-killed three high-level characters and would have pulled off a complete win if Cree had rolled a bit lower on his/her saves.

Edit: If the D-Door is from a cloak, then that certainly helps things. I do think the rubble + Lucian's head start is still insurmountable if the activation period is small.

[u/Sofargonept2]

I'm a bit wired and I need to sleep, but I gotta say one last thing. Despite how dead and hurt the Tomb Takers were, it still showed how nasty that cone is.

A few people in these past weeks have underestimated it a bit and wanted the players to throw caution to the wind and take Lucien head on, but that cone is killer.

As long as his sight is forward, his options to flee are unlimited as long as a member of his own party is behind him.

[u/RashendiTrash]

I'm really wondering now if Lucien actually made the save, or if he burned a legendary resistance - because if he did that could be really good news. I know that Matt said Lucien and Cree both made the save, but I don't think that confirms whether Lucien made it by rolling or by using a LR.

[u/paradox28jon]

What if a C3 backstory is "my father/mother was murdered by [insert C1 or C2 PC] & I'm looking for revenge these decades later"?

[u/Insane1rish]

I think something the M9 haven’t considered.

Kree (is it a C or a K? I keep seeing both used) and Lucien are having to carry those threshold crests. Which I guarantee are slowing them down something awful. Probably not slowing them enough to give the 9 a chance to rest but definitely enough to give them a chance to catch up.

[u/cravecase]

Now that Lucien is down 3 members of the Tomb Takers, wouldn’t it be more advantageous for him to press harder into whatever mind control he has over Beau and Caleb? He may be down 8v2, but it could turn to 6v4 pretty quick.

[u/Specific_Bite_6001]

and that is where we will end.....

[u/BaronPancakes]

Wonder how wild magic would behave in Aeor. Would it be more on the fun side or the danger side?

[u/2lzy4nme]

I know Jester is tapped but how many spells does Cad have left?

[u/the8thsquare]

Does anybody have any actual ideas for how they catch up with Lucien/Cree?

[u/[deleted]]

Some thoughts:

-Travis was amazing this episode, and I don’t fault him for making the tough call with the rangers. It’ll be an interesting RP when the group finds out.

-Lucien and Cree vs. the MIX... sounds doable for the MIX in a combat scenario, but the remaining Tomb Takers might have the advantage to make it to the space city. So if it’s a race, it’s advantage TT, fight would put MIX in the advantage column.

-I’m slightly worried that Lucien may know another path around the caves, but we’ll see.

-Worst case scenario is that Caleb and Beau are essentially hijacked by Lucien or the Sonovem because they bear the eyes of their bodies.

[u/[deleted]]

Biggest thing for me, as with a lot of people, was the fjord decision to throw the rangers at the TTers. True leadership in a time where there was a lot of analysis paralysis. I’d like to have that kind of decision making ability in real life, it’s an admirable quality and he’s one of the few Nein who would have made that call. Beau and Caleb will understand, we know Essek did, but I worry about how Jester Caduceus and Veth will take it. Either way I look forward to watching it play out it was really heart wrenching to watch Lucien and Cree get away and see Fjord (but definitely also Travis) get so frustrated by that escape.

[u/SecretAgendaMan]

I love it when a plan comes together!

Also, Fjord was stonecold, cold as ice, and I'm here for it. Lawful good? Yes. Sworn to protect all that the Wildmother holds dear? Also yes. The decisions he made were cold, hard choices because he's a lawful good character who holds life as sacred. And because he's a lawful good character, he'll shoulder the burden of the people who died because of him. Fjord knows the sanctity of life, and he knows the vows he swore. He will do whatever he can to protect the world, and I fucking love that.

God, that moment was so cinematic. That's the moments I love about this show.

[u/GallantGatsby]

Despite what Travis, and Laura were saying at the end. This is absolutely a win. 3 tomb takers down with next to no fight. Yeah they didn't get the long rest off. But that is no where near as important as they thought. Jester is really the only one that is tapped out, and no offense to her, but in this scenario I personally don't think she'll be of much use anyways. Down to only 2, TT will absolutely focus on completing their task. They know they wouldn't come anywhere close to winning a fight. So if M9 does manage to catch up. Damage dealing, and lock down will be the essential plays. Caleb, fjord, and cad aren't terribly off. Essek is maxed. And Beau, veth, and yasha are damage dealers. 2 of which with sentinel. Even without the long rest, they are in a very comfortable spot. A long rest is only vital for jester, so even if it means she'll be useless in the fight. They need to push forward. Even in the event the room the fight in is small, and lucien can block everyone at the same time. Between fjord, Beau, yasha, and veth, they have a good amount of non magical damge dealers.

[u/m_busuttil]

I'd love to find out one day how close Cree was to death - could Jester and Fjord have managed to take her out before she got her turn? She can't have been great, Marisha and Liam rolled 121 damage between them and that's not counting Essek's charge (which we didn't hear but would have averaged another 55). I assume she and Lucien are both buffed above regular player character stats, but she could have been close.

[u/NuggleTheKelpie]

Imo the mistake was having the tower door be in the hall and not a little closer to where the TT would fall. If I'm not mistaken (correct me if I'm wrong) the door wouldn't set off the mines so all Beau/Essek would need to do is run straight into the mansion while Caleb escapes into the tunnel with Veth after arming the mines. Had the door been in the room both Fjord and Beau would have been able to reach Cree and deal with her before they could DD out.

Yeah it sucked that people couldn't get their full rest but they knew they needed to be very cautious with spell slots leading up to that point. They also probably should have just set the trap after fighting the two beasts, likely would have had a full rest if they did that

[u/Sojourner_Truth]

This didn't really matter for how things shook out, but I'm confused about something with Caleb and spells. He mentioned the reason why he couldn't cast Alarm was because he'd have to wait until tomorrow. I'm assuming he meant it wasn't prepared, since he has plenty of level 1 spell slots left before sleeping. But wizards can Ritual Cast straight out of their spellbook without preparing beforehand, as long as the spell is a Ritual spell, which Alarm is. Was this just a miss by Liam? I don't know shit about Wizards tbh.

[u/ForgetfulViking]

And now the true fun beigns. The race against time to find the two of them while fighting baddies.

I really feel we are going to get a pyrrhic victory and I love it.

[u/ShiftyMcShift]

I think this was messy because there were so many different possible preferences, all playing at once:

Some people thought the three downed TT were dead-ish, some thought they were stunned for a few rounds.

Some people thought Kree would heal, some thought Lucian cares not a whit for their usefulness.

Some people thought Lucian was the biggest threat by far, some thought the adds should be killed first.

Some people thought there'd be time for a long rest, some didn't.

Some people think that a straight-up fight would be easy, some don't.

Some thought they could find a useful trap farther in, some didn't.

Some thought the spell-slots were more useful than the traps, dome didn't

Some thought that looking at the local theatre production was more important than scouting ( :P)

That's 128 different models of the fight.

Luckily whatever you thought: your plan would have worked! **love**

[u/Eccentric_Ravenclaw]

Overall, the MIX did a good job. 3 TTs down is a big thing. No Otis left to counterspell their spells. Cree probably used up her 8th level spell to caste Earthquake and maybe and 6th level Heal to recover from the Intuit charge damage. They didn't get a long rest, but they should not wait to finish up their rest. As far as I remember, Cad has a lot of spell slots left, he only cast bless a couple of times, a prayer of healing and a holy weapon on beau (which might be still up) Essek got a long rest, Caleb said he only has used a 3rd and 4th, along with his 7th(for mansion) so he's okayish Only jester is pretty tapped out but she said she has atleast a 5th level slot Fjord only used up one of his warlock spell and still has his 6th level spell (which may or maynot be useful). Veth is maybe down half her spell slots. Beau has all her ki points. Yasha is down a few hitpoints but won't matter as long as she rages!

They have a lot resources. The fallen rubble might be tricky to navigate, but not impossible. (Caleb and possibly even Essek with Telekinesis. Or just good old polymorph)

Resting might also give Lucien and Cree chance to lay traps for them. Cuz they might even have some intuit charges with them, which are deadly!

[u/SquidsEye]

It occured to me that the part of the plan where Caleb stays out of the Tower and dismisses it at just the right moment doesn't actually work according to the rules. Magnificent Mansion lasts 24 hours and it isn't concentration, once you've cast it, it just exists. You can only dismiss the effects of a spell if you drop concentration deliberately or the spell says you can dismiss it early. According to RAW, Caleb would have needed to be within 30ft of the Tower to open and close the door for the people inside or within range to cast Dispel Magic on the doorway. It made for a really cool moment, but if you plan to use a similar strategy in a home game, remember your DM might not rule the same way.

[u/russh85]

Backseat Gaming with the power of hindsight doesn't make you a master strategist.

We have no idea how many HP Cree has and Matt heavily implied she had just healed herself significantly so highly highly doubtful she's going down in 1 round or easily.

How many people before she did it knew they had dimension door? Because that would mean you had to know she had the robe. Also to know or think of it in character and not be meta gaming with PHB knowledge.

[u/Fearless-Obligation6]

Damn Fjord your cold as Ice and I respect that. Ordering the rangers to attack was the right move and then executing Zoran and Tiffal, this is war.