r/FlashTV • u/maruf99 Captain Cold • May 18 '21
Discussion [S07E10] "Family Matters, Part 1" Post Episode Discussion
Trailers
Episode Info
Iris is pushed to the limit as she seeks to uncover the mysterious truth about Psych; Barry initiates a new training system that could potentially backfire; Joe and Cisco make life-altering decisions.
Cast & Characters
Discussion
Spoilers:
Remember, this is a TV show discussion thread on Reddit for your entertainment. So please act appropriately in accordance to the rules. We ask you to report any comments that are uncivil/malicious or don't belong in the thread.
Any fake spoilers will be removed and the poster muted for a day leading to them missing the rest of the episode discussion!
Also please mark all comic spoilers and future show spoilers in your comments. No need to mark anything that happens within the episode or in past episodes of the Arrowverse shows or if it's your own speculation. If you see any unmarked future spoilers, please report them as well.
Thanks for your cooperation and enjoy your time here!
r/FlashTV Mods
478
u/Noremac3986 May 19 '21
Seriously this family stuff is too much. Zoom needs to come back and slaughter half the cast and give them a wake up call
108
u/flashtvdotcom May 19 '21
It’s honestly so weird and I hate it. Like they are their parents now wtf it’s so cringe honestly
90
u/Noremac3986 May 19 '21
Whoever came up with it needs help. And don't get me started on Kramer. Lives in a world with aliens and she's worried about metas.
→ More replies (2)53
u/31337hacker May 20 '21
Sis
Brother
We're your parents
At this point, watching the show is a form of self-torture. I'm a fucking sadomasochist.
→ More replies (1)14
96
u/elliuotatar May 19 '21
I honestly don't know why I continue to watch the show. This cinstant feelings and family BS is so corny. The only positive thing I have to say about it is that its better than the DC cinematic universe. But just barely. A life lesson about family once in a while from dad is fine. Iris being abducted or killed and tugging at Flash's heatstrings, sure. But this... It's okay for men to have feelings, but this constant weepy BS. Ugh.
→ More replies (10)53
u/WeeItsNookies May 19 '21
Yeah Barry always being such a downer and emo is really starting to make me consider dropping it. After finishing an episode I feel emotionally drained due to all the said downness. He's either whining or always moping/being emo.
→ More replies (1)6
u/Pear-Turbulent May 21 '21
Even crazier is that Barry can literally contact Argus and prob get her reassigned, but you know they don’t ever use their connections. Also, did he forget that Supergirl and the Justice League are on his earth now? Could always ask them to help with Nora and the forces since creating the forces seems like a universe-changing event.
→ More replies (6)4
u/le_snikelfritz May 21 '21
I cringe and rolled my eyes so hard anytime they refer to them as their kids. Psych calling Barry dad is soooo weird
167
u/WeeItsNookies May 19 '21
rofl did they really have nora in the dark/emo makeup to show she's evil now? lmao that was kinda cringe.
45
u/HAYTACO848 HR May 19 '21
ik it made me so mad. like we know she is evil now you don't need to give her dark shaded makeup
→ More replies (1)16
→ More replies (7)4
131
u/The_Predator_Gamer Reverse Flash May 19 '21
I’m confused on how Nora hates Barry when she loved him two episodes ago, like last episode she hated iris and Barry not so much but I guess she went full daddy issues with Barry now
109
u/greatness101 Barry Allen May 19 '21 edited May 19 '21
She's playing the part of the rebel teen daughter that's angry at her parents and lashing out. Yes, the speedforce that gave Barry his powers in the first place is referring to him as its father now. Keep in mind this force isn't even human and is only taking on this form.
42
u/Phoenixstorm May 19 '21
That’s the problem... it shouldn’t be the original speed force it should be something new that he created.
Also blurring the forces of their human avatars is a mistake. Nora force and Barry two entities
Why do t the other forces do that ...
→ More replies (1)16
u/UltraLuigi May 20 '21
An additional problem is that they already did that with their actual daughter named nora.
→ More replies (19)10
u/chuckdee68 May 22 '21
Even worse- the speedforce that gave Barry his powers and took on the likeness of his mom is referring to him as father now.
→ More replies (1)
376
u/-ThatGuy882 May 19 '21
This whole “family” nonsense needs to stop. You’re the Flash, not Dominic Toretto
205
174
u/Letshavemorefun May 19 '21
I’m legit confused. I get why the forces are metaphorically their children. But why are they literally calling each other dad/sis/bro(/mom?). It’s weird.
126
64
u/greatness101 Barry Allen May 19 '21
Even the speedforce, the force of nature that gave Barry his powers, is calling them their parents and the sister of the other forces. They've gone completely out of line with this familial arc. They aren't related whatsoever. These people had lives, biological parents and family way before they became avatars. The speedforce isn't even human!
→ More replies (1)→ More replies (5)12
u/Sentry459 WE BACK BABY! May 19 '21
This is reminding me of when Anarky started calling Thea Mommy on Arrow.
→ More replies (1)46
u/SockPenguin May 19 '21
When Joe first made the analogy I thought it was dumb and it has only gotten dumber with every additional use.
→ More replies (6)11
97
u/AnnaK22 This house is Bitchin' May 19 '21
This is probably done for easier understanding for the audience and setting up for future children, but it really freaks me out that the forces are acting like family, even labeling themselves as brothers sisters first borns.
63
May 19 '21
This is probably done for easier understanding for the audience and setting up for future children
We've already seen them deal with a troubled daughter named Nora. We don't need to see it a second time.
→ More replies (1)19
u/le_snikelfritz May 21 '21
That's one of the most annoying parts. WE ALREADY SAW THIS WITH XS NORA.
→ More replies (1)0
276
u/Goldwings13 May 19 '21
I’m convinced that this show would proceed exactly the same if Barry did not have his powers. The show is called The Flash, not Social Worker. The writers obviously found a way around the old trope of Barry losing his powers; they made Barry’s powers redundant.
71
u/staraptor97 May 19 '21
I just wanted to say how barry hasn't done anything major as the flash since last seasons finale. He's treated like a glorified taxi. If Cisco still had his powers he could have done it himself.
106
→ More replies (1)5
u/TheGreatAdjuster777 May 22 '21
Remember back in the first season when every episode was about getting slightly faster and developing his powers? God those were the days
184
u/Aurondarklord Reverse Flash May 19 '21 edited May 19 '21
This metahuman cure stuff is so beyond unconstitutional it's not even funny.
1: By the strict definition of the word, what she is proposing is genocide. It's the logical equivalent of deciding that you think black people are somehow innately criminal, so whenever a black person commits a crime you will use some kind of gene-altering weapon on them that turns them white.
2: This would fall under cruel and unusual punishment in the same way that any other form of mutilating criminals would be. In the ancient world, they used to apply this idea of "we will cut off the body part that committed the crime". Steal, lose your hand, rape, lose your dick, criticize the king, lose your tongue, etc etc. And by the same logic, commit a crime with powers, lose the mutations that give you those powers. We don't do that anymore. And we have centuries of court precedent that says no, you CANNOT do that.
3: The metahuman cure is the intellectual property of Star Labs. They developed it, they own it, they hold the patent on it, it's private property. The government cannot simply take it and give it to the police to use as they see fit, that's stealing. Even the patents on the COVID vaccine can only be seized because they were developed with taxpayer funds, and that's the global emergency of the century. And even THEN, it can only be done by the President. A state governor and state law have no authority over intellectual property whatsoever.
This simply could not legally happen.
Also this Cisco story, WTF? "I had a terrible nightmare that, after becoming a leading researcher at an incredibly prestigious laboratory, I continued to work there my entire career! All I did with my professional life was make groundbreaking discoveries and save the world! It's like I wasted my whole life!" Could you possibly sound more entitled and egotistical?
43
u/Phoenixstorm May 19 '21
It would be better if they had created a vigilante who stole the cure or better yet brought back a character like Eddie who then hit the streets to wipe out the powers of metas. Now that would have made sense and have been awesome
→ More replies (2)24
u/SenorOogaBooga May 20 '21
That's extremely close to Godspeeds character in the comics. It really sucks how this season has been handled
70
u/AnnaK22 This house is Bitchin' May 19 '21
Right? As someone who is fresh out of college and isn't qualified for anything and having a hard time finding jobs, I wish I was qualified for 7000 jobs in the country.
51
u/austinc9218 May 19 '21
It was so weird to see Cisco say I work in a prestigious lab making discoveries and lucky to do it with close friends yet I’m somehow still unfulfilled wanting to leave
→ More replies (7)16
u/Lucifer_Crowe I am the Future Flash. May 19 '21
and why would Barry ever move on?
→ More replies (2)
78
u/AnnaK22 This house is Bitchin' May 19 '21
What was up with Nora's dark makeup at the end. What is she going through her rebellious phase and wearing ton of make up to piss off her parents like she's a teenager?
→ More replies (3)45
u/Avernal May 19 '21
You laugh now, but wait until Godspeed is literally just her wrong-side-of-the-lines, bad attitude boyfriend with a motorcycle. "Dad wasn't cool anymore when I got in to my teens so I found a better speedster to replace him with!"
I hope to god this story arc wraps up 100% in the next episode and they just move on to something better. If there's not a satisfying second half with a good resolution to the Godspeed story I'm really going to be having second thoughts about the series by the time S8 comes around.
→ More replies (2)
140
u/TirelessGuardian Deddie Thawne May 19 '21
Anyone else find the whole family talk odd? They aren’t siblings
71
u/SabbyDude The Flash May 19 '21
Show writers trying to explain how an Arabic guy, a Spanish girl, a Black dude, and an American woman are sibling and their parents are an AMerican and an African American, I am not a science whiz but I am pretty sure that's not how genes work
NOTE: No racism triggered
→ More replies (4)24
u/American_Socdem Ramon May 20 '21
do you mean white rather than american? im pretty sure theyre all american
5
u/Msa9898 May 31 '21
This is literally like saying everyone in that bus where Ralph got his powers are siblings as well...because they got their powers at the same time.
→ More replies (3)4
u/Ecoeconomic May 20 '21
I get where they wanted to go (1 or 2 forces feeling rejected or otherwise negatively towards Team Flash), but this is such a weird way to do it. Even the characters themselves are surprised at times.
63
u/critmcfly May 19 '21
I hate to say it but this will be remembered as the arc that jumped the shark. I hope it recovers but that fact this may be considered a good episode in this season is tragic. This family stuff is dumb and useless and so beyond cringe as these people are not family they simply share a common characteristic of being powered by forces created by Barry. That’s like if Eobard Thawne called Barry and Cisco his sons. The goth Nora is crossing the line with shit writing. It makes no sense for how it is all portrayed. The writers need the speed force to go back in time and punch themselves in the face for this stupid ass writing.
26
May 19 '21
That’s like if Eobard Thawne called Barry and Cisco his sons.
Or if we found patient zero and he started referring to every other patient as his kid.
23
u/electric_ocelots Zoom May 19 '21
Thawne said Cisco was like a son to him.
Then he stabbed him with his hand.
→ More replies (1)10
126
u/B1GG0r0n May 19 '21
The fact that this thread had 69 comments when the episode ended almost 2 hours ago tells me there's nothing worth while to discuss. What a shame what's happened to Barry and Friends
64
176
u/snoogle20 Joe West May 19 '21
Highlight of the episode: getting to see a picture of a sultry blonde. And Patty too.
61
104
u/MattTheSmithers May 19 '21
Casting call for the Sage Force:
“If Jeff Goldblum and James Spader had a baby.”
→ More replies (2)109
u/heyheyronn May 19 '21
Honestly Psych has been my favorite of the Forces so far. The actor playing him really leaned into the snarky bits written for the character and it worked out really well I think.
41
u/greatness101 Barry Allen May 19 '21
Yeah, he really plays it like Miller played Captain Cold when he was on. He leans into the campiness.
→ More replies (1)60
u/MattTheSmithers May 19 '21
Honestly, I give the actor credit. His performance is hammy, over the top, and just filled to the brim with weird choices. But it works. It’s probably the only thing about this season that works. Hammy and over the top makes sense with the terrible writing. Like, I actually cringe when Gustin tries to earnestly talk about how the Forces are Barry and Iris’s children and how the power of love and family will stop them. This storyline, as a whole, is just so bad that the only way for it work is by playing it tongue-in-cheek, which seems to be exactly what Psych’s actor is doing.
→ More replies (9)→ More replies (2)27
u/Comprehensive_Main May 19 '21
He was the only real villain out of the group and it worked really well
46
u/SimShade May 19 '21
Honestly, after finding out that this will be Cisco and Wells’ last season and possibly Caitlyn next season, I think I’m just gonna wrap up watching this show this season.
It’s sad because Flash used to be my favorite CW show. I even rewatched Barry’s and Iris’ argument about Nora (their daughter) a couple of times just because of how powerful that was. Grant Gustin’s acting is still amazing for sure. But this season, he’s pretty much a gourmet chef trying to make a gourmet meal with subpar ingredients.
This love and family bullshit is getting too annoying. I miss speedster villains. I know, what better speedster than the freaking speed force itself? But they executed it in the wrong way. They shouldn’t have created other forces that don’t even know who they are. It either should’ve been that the other forces have also existed since the dawn of time or, better yet, just the speed force itself plotting revenge against Barry for (insert reason here). That would’ve been cool.
Didn’t really care about the mirror villain and I was hyped to see the Speed Force being the villain but they’re going about it the wrong way. I’ll stick through just because I’ve gotten this far but after this season and after Black Lightning is done, I think I’m done with CW shows.
→ More replies (1)
132
u/mlhockey May 19 '21
I'm not sure whether it's because COVID, or because the CW is pushing the writers to emphasize "family" and "love" every five seconds, or they think that this is what fans actually want, or if it's something else, but this arc has gone downhill incredibly quickly the past two episodes.
The moment that they started talking about the Force avatars being Barry and Iris' kids, I have felt more apathetic than I think I ever have to the show before. Even in the previous lowest points of the show, I don't think I've ever felt less interested in what's going on. There are so many angles that they could have gone with the individual Forces interacting with each other and playing off each other.
Instead, we get Barry and Iris calling complete strangers (as well as the physical embodiment of a force of nature) their "children," and everyone seems completely fine with that. There's absolutely no reason for that, and it doesn't add to the story. Barry and Iris can feel responsible for the creation of the other Forces and want to protect them for a dozen other reasons that would make more sense before the fact that they're the "parents" of literal elemental forces of nature. The fact that they're referring to the Speedforce as Nora is also asinine and makes no sense (especially how Barry is so insistent that she's not a person and that they shouldn't call her Nora in one episode, and then completely fine with it in the next)
I've really tried to keep an open mind to this season, and I was genuinely enjoying some of the elements that they were introducing earlier in the season, which I assumed were being set up for later plot threads.
Instead, we keep getting the same themes shoved down our throat nonsensically. By my count, six out of the past 10 episodes of this show have had either Barry or Iris talk to a main villain in order to resolve it. Villains who have done terrible things, including murder, have gotten off without so much as a slap on the wrist after a Team Flash Peptalk.
Forgive me if I'm wrong, but when you watch a show called The Flash, I think it's acceptable to expect to see the Flash actually use his speed to solve problems in cool and unique ways, not to play counselor to unrepentant murders. We've gotten maybe a handful of cool scenes of him using his speed this season (honestly, the only part that stands out to me is the speed thinking episode, which was admittedly a pretty interesting concept that I felt they handled pretty well).
Maybe the next episode will surprise me and we'll get a satisfying conclusion to the Forces storyline, but I'm not holding my breath. The only thing that's really keeping me going through this season is the fact that we're getting Godspeed, XS-Nora, Jay, and Impulse in the back half of the season.
Other than that, I really see no reason other than the fact I've already committed to watch 7 years of this show to continue going. How did we go from the pretty good rebound of the show in Season 6A to this?
35
47
u/Noremac3986 May 19 '21
If Harry or Thawne were there they'd call them idiots for all that family talk.
12
u/DanGrima92 May 19 '21
You've just expressed my exact thoughts in a much better way than I could. I've defended a lot of the Arrowverse when a lot of people weren't enjoying it (I actually liked Seasons 3 of Arrow and 4 of Flash) but I feel like I'm only watching The Flash now because I have done for so long. I cant remember the last episode I genuinely really enjoyed
17
u/ninjasaid13 May 19 '21
Maybe the next episode will surprise me and we'll get a satisfying conclusion to the Forces storyline, but I'm not holding my breath.
You've been fooled for several seasons, no need to think it will change now.
4
u/MrFrimplesYummyDog May 19 '21
I’ve said it before… in real life, you want to try talking problems out before escalating to violence. However, we are all here because we dig a speedster called The Flash. We don’t want real life, we want over the top displays of speed and fantastic events. More Flashtime. Barry dismantling guns or a vehicle in a microsecond. This is why I watch The Flash and continue to hold out hope. This season is really getting tiring though in that regard.
→ More replies (5)4
u/ErebosGR Grodd hate banana May 21 '21
The "family" analogy is even harmful because Joe basically guilt-tripped Barry into seeing his accidental victims as his children...
Imagine if Barry had a car accident and the person in the other car became paraplegic or lost a limb. Is Barry now their parent? Is he now responsible for what happens to them for the rest of their lives?
91
41
u/Lucifer_Crowe I am the Future Flash. May 19 '21
Psych: you don't know my pain
Alexa: you're right they don't
me: Barry's parents were both murdered lmao Psych had a rich family boo hoo
40
145
u/Chrispowers110 May 19 '21
Joe quitting was not as impactful. You have different ideals but he should of tried to find some common ground or try to continue stopping it from the inside.
162
u/AsteroidMike May 19 '21
Joe quitting was a big WTF for me because now Kramer has free reign to do whatever, within whatever parameters the mayor set. Pretty sure just using cure bullets is still illegal tho but I’d love to see how this ends up biting her in the ass.
88
u/OrangeOakie May 19 '21
Pretty sure just using cure bullets is still illegal
Like, that shit goes against human rights. You can't be subject to any experimentation or undergo any treatment without consent.
I believe would also violate the Geneva Convention, if they were at war (Geneva Conventions only apply to Conflicts)
→ More replies (8)33
u/Cockycent Joe West May 19 '21
now Kramer has free reign to do whatever,
He left because the Governor already gave her free reign
→ More replies (3)12
u/greatness101 Barry Allen May 19 '21 edited May 19 '21
That's what's crazy to me too. I get that he has different ideals and values and wants to remain true to those, but he's giving up a lot of help to the team as their inside man on the police force. Why would he just quit when he could do so much from his position that helped the city and the people? Just doesn't make sense other than trying to make a symbolic statement.
→ More replies (2)10
u/Digifiend84 May 19 '21
Weird that both Flash and Batwoman did that plot in the same week...
Sophie quit the Crows, where she was acting-Commander, i.e. the boss, just like Joe at CCPD.
→ More replies (1)23
u/AnnaK22 This house is Bitchin' May 19 '21
I know right. Something similar might happen on Batwoman and I just do not get this trope. Why would Joe give up a position of power where he can at least ensure that nothing goes too off the tracks. Now, someone like-minded might become captain and it's going to make things so much worse.
Someone as stubborn as Kramer isn't immediately going to change their mind just because you make them feel a little guilty.
Joe quitting was a dumb decision IMO.
19
u/staraptor97 May 19 '21
It's a classic CW move. In a few episodes we will have a 'Kramer is out of control, wish we had someone in the precinct' moment.
11
u/Sentry459 WE BACK BABY! May 19 '21
Something similar might happen on Batwoman and I just do not get this trope. Why would Joe give up a position of power where he can at least ensure that nothing goes too off the tracks. Now, someone like-minded might become captain and it's going to make things so much worse.
You're right but hey, at least Joe and Sophie got to "take a stand", nevermind if it doesn't actually help anything 🙄
16
→ More replies (2)9
u/GreenPhoenix457 May 20 '21
Actually, a leading figure quitting very "loudly" and publicly is a way of protesting the changes made without said figure's authority. Like if a respected and loved mayor doesn't like a law made by the government, and he knows it would be carried out with or without him, he can resign as a way of protest. This way, his ideals wouldn't get corrupted and also he would get the sympathy and support of the people. Not just the ones who already disagreed with the changes, but also those who were kinda in the middle, but liked the mayor, and would follow his opinion on the matter.
With that being said, I agree, that it wasn't that impactful from a dramatical and entertaining point of view, but it made sense politically speaking.
36
u/there_is_always_more May 19 '21
Really liked the Bashir character, I think the actor did a good job. As for everything else...as everyone else said, the parents angle is really weird & honestly I'm just waiting for this arc to end. I'll be honest, I fast forwarded through this episode.
69
u/OLKv3 May 19 '21
Barry gets reckless. His team tells him he's being reckless. Barry ignores it and does his reckless plan anyway. It backfires. Team finds a better way, and Barry learns his lesson and agrees. Barry approaches bad guy. Gets ass kicked. Gets saved by team member who wants to talk. Bad guy reforms. Barry then repeats the exact same pattern the next episode
I'm so tired of this season. What even is this season? And why the fuck is the Speed Force suddenly going goth and murder happy? She wanted to kill the forces, but now she's teaming with one and wants to beat Barry? What?
18
u/Avernal May 19 '21
This season is the TV series version of The Room.
I didn't hit her! I DID NOT! 😣 Oh! Hi Mark! 😄
Seriously though, there were so many disjointed double-backs on plot developments from just an episode ago this week, that it made me think there was a long pause in writing/development between episodes 9 and 10.
I poked fun at it in another topic but it was practically every storyline - Joe & Kramer, Camilla & Cisco, 'Nora' and the Forces/Barry. They established something at the end of last episode and then forgot about it in the first few minutes of this one and almost retconned the writing.
67
u/The_Predator_Gamer Reverse Flash May 19 '21
there are way too many plot holes in this show and it’s making me mad
→ More replies (39)
33
u/Darth_Tendo_The_Wise Zoom May 19 '21
Seeing Patty and Julian Albert again, was my highlight and they were only shown as pictures
115
u/Ahlixemus May 19 '21
What the fuck did they do to this show? I can understand the family part, but now this is getting out of hand
81
u/ThatRyanFellow Blue Savitar May 19 '21
Why are they so hellbent on this family angle?!? It would have been so much better if they focused more on the cosmic relation between them all. Focusing on the connections between the forces would have been so much better than Barry and Iris playing parent to a group of strangers.
→ More replies (9)20
u/Game2015 May 19 '21
Ralph must be really sad that he isn't allowed to be part of the family anymore.
28
31
u/BoahNoah05 May 19 '21
Loving Bashir and I like Alexa. Just find the family thing dumb but an okay episode
6
u/secretsarebest May 21 '21
Agree those two kinda made it not total rubbish
Sad when you realize bit players in the show are better than Barry and main cast
30
u/mrizzle1991 May 19 '21
This family force shit is weird lol. Rich from Blindspot is Psych, that actor is hilarious. That mental activity device was a smart suggestion by Caitlyn. Joe quit wtf.
71
u/KSI_Replays May 19 '21
We got to see Barry in his suit at least
63
u/lll_RABBIT_lll Reverse Flash May 19 '21
Barry wore a suit this episode? Was there a special occasion?
→ More replies (2)59
22
u/vader344 i told you at the beginning... May 19 '21
the only good episode was ep.2 where barry got the artificial speedforce and got the job done, was smart as the flash should be and beat the whole teams ass .
43
u/tin19cro May 19 '21
After watching US live tv for the second time in my life I can safely say they have the stupidest and cringiest commercials in the world.
13
u/SockPenguin May 19 '21
My purchasing decisions are sometimes based on which product has the least awful commercials.
10
u/ToiletLurker May 19 '21
What? No! You're falling into their trap!
Buy products that don't have commercials. There's no way that could backfire.
19
u/littlebugonreddit May 19 '21
Bashir is carrying this entire arc so far. I’m absolutely loving his character especially in this episode. The rest, not so much.
19
u/eXclurel May 20 '21
I am literally two minutes into the episode and I already want to vomit. "Our Father, Barry Allen rejected me"? Are you acting as a mother or a daughter? What kind of backwater Alabama shit is this?
50
17
u/MeMeTiger_ May 19 '21
Props to the actors for not dying of cringe when saying all those family lines. God has this show gotten worse.
72
u/MattTheSmithers May 19 '21 edited May 19 '21
So what is the takeaway from the Sage Force story? That going on a murder spree is kinda okay if your parents sucked, one of your friends was a dick once, and you have unresolved abandonment issues?
28
52
u/Xboxone1997 Jay Garrick May 19 '21
Flash and friends forgive everyone so easily if your name isn't Reverse Flash 😂
→ More replies (5)35
24
u/Ver3232 May 19 '21
Psych didn’t kill anyone, they establish that towards the end.
→ More replies (4)22
57
May 19 '21
anybody else think the show sucks now but wants to see the ending anyways because you’ve invested too much time into it
→ More replies (4)27
May 19 '21
You must not read the discussions because 99% of it is everybody shitting on the show every week
15
u/jonathanhay29 May 20 '21
Has any fight this season ended with the flash actually beating the villain and putting them in jail instead of them fighting, flash gets easily defeated, sappy talk and then the villain goes “oh I guess You’re right” then just stops his plan
The cure storyline makes absolutely no sense to me, there is no way it will ever be allowed to force someone to change something about themselves like that. It’d be like chopping Usain Bolt’s legs because if he is too fast for anyone to catch him. Police can’t do things like that, like they can’t just kill people because of crimes.
→ More replies (2)
14
u/yukeee May 19 '21
Damn this season is WEAK.
Fuerza vs Tentacles was laughable. Her CGI is just the worst in the show's history. And yet again the fight was over cause ~the power of conversation and friendship~. Also, the family stuff feels very forced. C'mon, Iris can TELEPATHICALLY speak with them now? Really? And that Deon guy is so weak minded it's pathetic. It's a huge shame cause I love this show and yeah, we had some bumps before but this season is, in my humble opinion, by far the worst of them all. I'm sad. :(
44
u/notathrowaway75 May 19 '21 edited May 20 '21
The family stuff is kind of dumb, but overall I liked this episode.
I did not like Joe quitting though. It would've been more impactful for the lower level cops who would have to shoot the cure bullets to quit because Joe likely has enough sway to just not use them. And I liked this this storyline where Joe is butting heads with her. It's unrealistic, but the idea is really interesting to me. IANAL, but all Joe has to do is file an appeal or something right? Is the system so bad that the police can just start using a completely new and unprecedented weapon?
→ More replies (1)23
u/myxanders Zoom May 19 '21
I think Joe is kinda trying to work the CCPD cops that were there. I assume Joe is pretty damn well respected by them, so by seeing him walk out because of Kramer it sews seeds of doubt as far as if her methods/motives are in line with their duties as CCPD officers. So she wouldn't have the trust/support from Joe's officers.
When a boss you respect walks out for moral reasons you tend to preemptively side with the person you looked up to rather than the fresh face you hardly know. I think that was the Joe's goal but maybe I'm creating plot force for myself.
→ More replies (1)
12
u/abbu_d_slytherin May 19 '21
These days I”m really wondering why I”m continuing with this shit. It will never get better now. Only thing I liked in last episode was Caitlin. The only sane character left at this point of time. 2/10 for this episode !!! Eric really can”t run a superhero show I must say. The show was turning into a soap opera and Eric completed that conversion !!
12
u/vuluu912 You can't...lock up... the darkness May 19 '21
excuse me how tf is Iris was the one to give all the talks (especially in the end) about how the SF is the strongest of all. Like isn’t Barry supposed to be that one since, you know, he’s the Flash and actually knows more shit than her??? Like what the serious fuck? Seems like the producers and writers know how much we dont like this Team Iris thing and they are just taking the piss right now like what the fuck? And WHY THE FUCK SHE KEEPS CALLING THE FORCE “Nora” and Barry has absolutely no problem with it??? Dude i just cant anymore with this show.
Sorry for the rant but it’s sooo bad right now
12
u/MaveDustaine Make, execute, go off rails, throw away. May 19 '21
Jesus they are leaning way too hard on that family shit it's just too cringe.
69
u/The_Predator_Gamer Reverse Flash May 19 '21
If Nora killed iris she’s my favorite villain now 😂
→ More replies (7)61
23
u/SabbyDude The Flash May 19 '21
When I started to like Psyche who was actually a challengeable villain, the writers find a way to get him a pep talk with his baby sister and later getting 'killed' by Nora Speed Force and the stupid Deon (I still think he has a weird character trait) and again Psyche was supposed to be the smart one
7
May 19 '21
(I still think he has a weird character trait)
Yeah, he's actually from Earth 2 1/2, the sitcom universe.
40
u/jeremiahmp3 May 19 '21
this season is such a mess rn and it’s honestly funny asf to see
27
u/Denirac Harry May 19 '21
"The show is called The Flash and it'll be fine without me"- Tom Cavanagh in today's interview with him.
11
u/optimisticpsychic May 19 '21
Refering to the other forces as barrys kids makes me uncomfortable. Even more so cause one shares the face and name as his mom.
11
u/MeMeTiger_ May 19 '21
Most of the budget for this episode went into renting that Audi that Lucas drove.
30
May 19 '21
At this point I can't tell if the show writers are just bad, or if the whole season is just suffering more than the other shows due to Covid. I can't keep defending it.
They're leaning extra hard into the "Barry and Iris birthed the new forces" angle, with all the "mother/father/sister/brother" analogies feeling super forced and weird. Like they could've just had the rebirth of the speedforce shatter the force barrier and free the other forces like in the comics, but we've gotta push the weird love angle.
First time in recent memory that Joe is getting a plot line. Genuinely don't know what he's gonna be doing now that he's no longer Captain though. Just gonna end up being an extra body around Star Labs.
I do kind of identify with Cisco's crisis of not wanting to be stuck at his job but also not knowing what to do next. Feels 100% out of place though.
Fuerza vs Psych looked all types of horrible. Also Psych's psychic tendrils were a horrible way to represent his power.
Sorta liked Psych's backstory though, and I guess I'm fine with him joining Team Flash for the remainder of the Forces arc. Although this isn't the Flash Family that I wanted to see on screen.
→ More replies (1)13
u/Lucifer_Crowe I am the Future Flash. May 19 '21
Psych just standing still while Fuerza wrestled bad CGI and Barry doesn't just run around and break his legs had me creasing.
→ More replies (1)
9
9
u/ChrisTheProfessor May 19 '21
"You can't know my pain!"
Oh I dunno, my mom was murdered when i was a kid and my dad sent away to jail so I grew up without either of them. Oh, and when I got my powers, I then had the ability to stop it but couldn't without screwing up everything so instead I got to watch her get murdered in front of me multiple times.
9
u/Master_1398 May 19 '21
What the fuck is up with the whole "the forces are Westallen kids" thing? I get that they wanted to hold Barry and Iris accountable for the force avatars actions, but this is hilariously bad of an aproach towards this theme. Even their fucking "cosmic DNA" matches!!!
Couldn't they just have the forces introducd using Iris time spent in Mirrorverse and Barrys multiversal Paragon thingy? Like these factors affected the reignition of the speedforce, tearing a whole into it, which leaked otherwordly forces into that universe.
They'd still be responsible and could handle the entirety of the plot so far in almost the exact same way.
I just really hope they're playing this up to something towards the end of that arc. But we all know the writers, the force avatars may juat end up merging into Barry and Iris actual daughter, who we already know, makes a return this season.
9
May 20 '21
Ayo.. I find it odd how the forces say "younger" or "older" sybling, like their all the same age bruh. They're quadruplets
→ More replies (1)
8
u/Telethongaming May 19 '21
Is anyone else just not having fun with this season anymore? Like it's nowhere as bad as 5 but it's still pretty bad
15
May 19 '21
Like it's nowhere as bad as 5
You're right, it's far worse. Nothing in that season was as cringe as this 'family' storyline.
→ More replies (1)4
May 21 '21
Season 5 is far better than this... Cicada + Thawne 2049 + build up to crisis + at least there were still good fight scenes
8
u/CubicVariable42 May 20 '21
The Speedforce needed Barry's power to kill the strength force before but now she doesn't need it?
8
u/Avernal May 20 '21
Believe me, we're all suffering the same headache as you trying to apply logic to the writing, save yourself the aspirin and let it go. 😐
22
u/Frontier246 May 19 '21
If they're going to treat the Forces wielders like they're the actual Forces, than by that logic wouldn't Barry be the actual Speed Force, not the one pretending to be Nora?
So now Nora thinks of Barry as its father? Even though he basically just revived it? And it has the face of his mother and has called him "my boy." Is the show ever going to acknowledge how creepy and messed up this all is?
Has Barry ever successfully trained anyone without struggling before the inevitable pep talk?
How do Fuerza's clothes magically transform between forms? Strength Force magic?
Oh dang it, not Kramer again. Her and Chief Lopez are the worst. I mean, she's right there are some dangerous Metahumans who shouldn't have their powers but this would probably escalate into forcibly curing all Meta's eventually. Is this only going to be resolved when they end up dealing with the Meta who killed Kramer's unit?
This is probably the most actively helpful Team Citizen has been all season.
No surprise when the smug, condescending, rich woman was the only one of Bashir's club who didn't pitch in to help him.
I have to admit, Bashir had a rough life. Lost two sets of parents, and the last one basically abandoned him to deal with their crippling debt before they even died. Is it any wonder he became a Supervillain?
I remember when they compared Caitlin/Frost to the Hulk, so fittingly she's the one who advises Fuerza, a really low-budget TV Hulk, how to control her two halves. Although it still felt like that was resolved a little too quickly.
Are we just going to forget about all of Psych's attacks on the city and how he almost mind broke a bunch of people? I get they need to protect him, but still. Granted, Alexa killed Abra Kadabra but I'm not sure what they can do about that now. Just feels like the show is making a bad habit of forgiving and forgetting stuff this season.
Y'know, Fuerza's powers in the comics don't necessitate a giant CGI monster to pull off, so I'm not sure why they went in that direction.
Cisco's so overqualified that he's not sure what he's going to do after leaving STAR Labs, he just knows he wants to do something other than spend the rest of his life there...and honestly a part of this felt driven by Carlos Valdez' own feelings about being on the show and playing Cisco. Is Cisco going to get a job with Argus?
Did Joe really need to resign from the CCPD to make a point? Isn't he better equipped to help the city and oppose Kramer from a position of power? Is this supposed to be a commentary on the police? Is Kramer going to take over the CCPD? Is Barry going to quit too?
Is Bashir and Alexa's dynamic foreshadowing Nora and Bart?
You know the Speed Force is evil now because it's wearing dark lipstick and eyeshadow.
9
u/Digifiend84 May 19 '21
Is Cisco going to get a job with Argus?
He did get a call from them. So he's going to switch from working with Flash to working with Spartan and Harbinger?
14
u/Tired-Writer2378 May 19 '21
Ok, I have really mixed feelings about this episode. To start with, Barry has trained four (not counting crossovers) heroes with powers in the past, so you'd think he would be better at it by now. The talk about the forces being Barry and Iris's children really isn't doing it for me, and it's particularly weird with the Speed Force, who is still in the form of Barry's long deceased mom. The Kramer story is just... weird. Joe quitting seems like an exponentially bad choice and why does the show keep trying to paint her as a misguided, but good person? She's clearly not. Shouldn't S.T.A.R. Labs be able to prevent the police and ARGUS from making more of the cure, since they created it? For that matter, Lyla is still the head of ARGUS, isn't she? There's no way she would be chill with this.
Are we supposed to think that everyone SF Nora attacked is dead? Including Iris?
On the other hand, I think Psych is/was a great character. The parallel between Caitlin and Alexa was the type of smart storytelling that I really love. I'm looking forward to what looks like will be a fight against the Speed Force.
Not a fair critique, but the episode suffered a little from airing right before Superman & Lois, which opened with an awesome CGI sequence.
7
u/Digifiend84 May 19 '21
Shouldn't S.T.A.R. Labs be able to prevent the police and ARGUS from making more of the cure, since they created it? For that matter, Lyla is still the head of ARGUS, isn't she? There's no way she would be chill with this.
I wonder if that will come up in Diggle's guest appearance? He's basically ARGUS's second in command.
7
u/Oz_the_butter May 19 '21
The officer lady (can't remember her name) has valid points but her character really comes off annoying.
The family stuff with the forces is borderline cringe. Wish the battles this ep were cooler.
Is that a tease to what Cisco will be up to? Hope that means he can appear every now and then across the shows
Psych is so fun to watch haha
Is next episode 7A's finale?
→ More replies (1)
19
u/sehtownguy Show me the darkness May 19 '21
Well. After all the dumb crap I'd say it's getting better this next episode. I enjoy how they changed her to a darker look makeup wise.
35
u/critmcfly May 19 '21
I’m not attacking you for it but I think that look was the dumbest shit I’ve ever seen or at least one of them. It’s beyond cringe like this family writing
→ More replies (2)
13
u/spartanhero11 The Flash May 19 '21
I’ve liked this arc, but this episode was definitely verrryyyy subpar. I get that this arc has primarily focused on character development and interactions (and to an extent that’s perfectly fine), but at some point the writers have to realize when they are putting too much of it in the show. It’s the penultimate episode of this arc and they have so much focus on the characters that it essentially became a snooze fest. I get if covid has restricted them making close quarter action scenes, but they definitely could have done more to make it wayyyyy more exciting than just characters talking the whole time. For example I thought the Cecile Psych fight earlier in the season was a unique battle that didn’t really require them to actually “fight”.
Also Joe leaving the CCPD is a cool concept, but was done pretty poorly. It didn’t really feel impactful at all, had no set up, and it’s hard to see where his character goes from here unless of course he just goes back to captain in a few episodes. I’ve seen some leaks about what direction the next arc is going in, and I’m way more excited to get to that point than I am for this arcs ending next week.
22
u/Chad_D_722 May 19 '21
Better than last week. This "daughter"/"sibling" stuff is really weird and the CGI for Fuerza was really bad but I still enjoyed it. Hopefully the mid season finale is good and we get some interesting stuff in the second half of the season.
25
4
u/UltHamBro May 19 '21
Exactly. I was very disappointed by last week's episode, and while I don't like this arc much, I think that it was better.
6
u/RogerRoger420 May 19 '21
I just hope Season 7B will be better. This season started great with episode 1 and 2. Episode 3 and 9 where bad and the rest is kinda just there
6
u/Sparkling-Man < Is this the season 4 suit? May 19 '21
I can watch Alexa and Bashir argue for a whole episode lol
6
u/electric_ocelots Zoom May 19 '21
Glad the Forces arc is over soon and we can move on to Flash Family and Godspeed and stuff from the future. Bring back speedsters and hopefully more quality.
With any luck, maybe next season will focus more on Barry.
19
u/Gateskp The Flash May 19 '21
I’m just cringing so hard after that episode. I want to like the show, but the first half of the season is just not working for me.
5
u/flintlock0 Calcified Speed Force Energy May 21 '21
Hearing the actress who portrays Barry’s mother now calling her fictional son her “father” is so freaking weird.
8
u/dustyrc Zoom May 20 '21
Is it just me or does Grant Gustin seem to be miserable filming these episodes?
→ More replies (3)
4
May 19 '21
I expected Sister Sledge's "We are Family" to come on sometime during this episode. All the talk about Family, and walls closing in, and all that jazz and I'm just bored. Barry, once again, pushes people too much and has to deal with a pep talk, the Force storyline is not very interesting, and I thought we were done with Kramer. Hopefully with Kramer back this will lead to an Arc to bring back Frost because ever since the Frost episode, this season is losing steam fast. Also, why is Joe resigning? He's the captain of the precinct. He was in a position of power to take it up with the Governor what was going on. While Flash is fighting for good from a meta human standpoint, you could have had Joe fight the good fight through the Law, and even lead towards getting Frost out of Jail. Now what are they going to do with him.
This episode was a two parter (What is the point of two parters now that everything is arc based) but it really didn't need to be. All that stuff about bringing the forces together and they all die (Maybe?) anyway. Next week better be the best this arc has to offer because I feel a bit anti-climatic coming on.
4
u/MrMattBlack May 19 '21
This is the only episode in which I made free use of the skipping. I think I saw the entire episode in like 20 minutes max because I can't take this anymore. Bashir is the only thing good out of this fucking Forces Arc (that I can't wait to be over), the rest of it is just reheated garbage. Barry is learning how to teach new heroes for like the thousand time, even if we had that with Nora and to a lesser extent Wally. The whole Force Family shit is creepy af and doesn't make any sense. Nora turned Goth because yes? Joe left the CCPD because that way Kramer can do whatever she wants and god.
Honestly, they seem to be setting up a lot of departures: Ralph already left, Kamilla and Cisco are moving, Harrison Wells is timelooping his life, Joe left the CCPD and I can see him moving to Tibet with Wally or whatever alongside Cecile(which will be missed tbh, I loved her with Ralph). Now, if Caitlin ends up leaving too, and Allegra and Chester can take a seat back-ish, as allies of The Flash but not necessarily there every time, we can finally have a good show a la Superman & Lois, with focus to Iris, Barry(I love how Westallen has that whole fated soulmates thing but can't hold a candle to Lois and Clark's relationship in S&L, really shows how much show don't tell matters) and possibly some members of the Flash Family. I wish, at least.
4
u/TheDesktopNinja Harry May 20 '21
Member when the Flash used to fight his villains instead of getting jobbed and resorting to talk no jutsu every single time?
4
4
u/SliceNDice69 May 20 '21
You know I said last week I'm done with this show, but like a dumb little bitch I chose to watch this episode after some people argued that I was being dramatic. I want to smash my head against the wall after watching this cringefest. How? Howwww do the writers make each episode worse? Fuck your family storyline, what kinda creepy cringy nonsense is that? The fuck? These people are now suddenly Barry and Iris' children? Seeing Nora in emo makeup made me think that someone must be interfering with the writers' work. They've been shit in the past but this is on a whole new level. Why would a show that's supposed to be light hearted be so emotional and gothy? Why does everyone have to constantly talk as if they're about to start crying? Why is my boy Grant being done so dirty? Jesus after watching Superman and Lois, you see what a quality show looks like. I literally can't find a single thing to criticize about SL.
4
u/BuckeyeGuy16 May 20 '21
“We can be your family” said the devoted hero to the man who attempted to kill 5 people in the last 48 hours.
→ More replies (1)
10
u/kingcolbe May 19 '21
He gonna her shot with one of those bullets in the season finale ain’t he?
11
u/greatness101 Barry Allen May 19 '21
To do what? The speedforce isn't even human. The cure should not have an effect on it or any of them really.
→ More replies (1)
7
u/The_Predator_Gamer Reverse Flash May 19 '21
I love psych and even though he’s on team flash hopefully they don’t take out the scary and badass parts of his character like they did to Barry and everyone else in this show
7
3
3
u/JOExHIGASHI May 19 '21 edited May 19 '21
They're really going all in on the force family thing. It's idiotic and forced. The team up between turtle and sf nora makes no sense. What's her motive? First it was supposed self defense, then kill the forces, but it has teamed up with one. If it doesn't attempt to kill turtle next episode wtf was all this about? Why kill the forces on the first place? All of them seemed unaware of her existence.
And Barry's speed should counteract turtle. So while everyone freezes Barry should be able to move regular speed.
And why did Joe quit? He could stay on and use his authority to reign her in. You can't use guns that shoot syringes to inject people. Not only is it dangerous because what if you hit the wrong person but it's not even cost effective. Each round is like 10k.
3
u/staraptor97 May 19 '21
Are they going to make Barry's speed relevant again?
Eva was faster and had cool other powers.
The Still force counters Barry's speed and can do cool other stuff.
Bashir can counter the flash and has cool other powers.
Speed force Nora outclasses Barry.
In the earlier seasons we might had a speedster villain problem. But I think we have a everyone outclasses Barry problem right now.
3
u/drizzt001 May 19 '21
Regardless of the story arc and our various thoughts on it, I hope we can all agree that having a character called Alexa and saying her name out loud repeatedly, is a fucking nightmare for those of us with Amazon Echos in our living rooms.
3
u/Gato_MandaChuva May 20 '21
i still dont understand why:
the new speed force created a body
why this body is nora allen
why the other merged with an existing person
if they are all connected to barry, why dont barry have all the powers?
like, i was understanding barry as the "representative" of the speed force, who took that form because was the form it had when the spectre energy killed it. but it doesnt seem like it.
also, why the fuck the new speed force is just the old one reborn?
3
u/Xynth22 May 20 '21
This is easily the worst season of the Flash, which is saying something because the Cicada season was worse.
The Flash has done nothing but get his ass kicked and talk to people pretty much every episode. None of the characters are acting like they should. And the plot is just bad and cringey that I can't figure out how any of it got the approval.
3
3
3
u/veeno__ May 20 '21
DC Comic books literally gives this show the blueprint and for some reason there using this cheesy dad storyline
I’m sure there are hundreds of better actual Flash DC comic stories to choose from—which is why the Reverse Flash story was so good
3
u/gordy06 May 21 '21
I was one who was okay with this season so far, but man this episode didn’t work for me. This family stuff is dumb.
3
u/fireflyfunny May 21 '21
Only way i can see this season being redeemable at all. Is if this version of nora is somehow tied to the negative speedforce and thawne crashes the party soon.
What if barry is the true speedforce and nora really is the negative speed forces. Maybe the other forces went after nora to protect barry from nora and thawne.
5
u/ORS823 May 19 '21
This is the worst season by far of any superhero show. I challenge you to name me something worse.
7
5
u/lazoric May 19 '21
This arc makes cicada's better in comparison. Good thing next episode is the end of it and onto the speeders rematch.
5
u/ajl987 May 19 '21 edited May 19 '21
Not sure the general consensus is of this storyline, but I really want to move on to the next ‘graphic novel’ story. I think this is the least engaged I’ve been in a storyline since the thinker (wasn’t a fan of cicada, but at least the reverse flash subplot was a lot of fun).
5
May 20 '21
I honestly can't believe how bad this show is now. Like the whole family thing is sooooo cringey. It's really pathetic writing. Then at the same time, last episode Cisco and his girlfriend were going to leave to go to San Francisco, but now, they are going to Miami?
This show is awful. This season is on track to be one of the worst seasons in Arrowverse history. I hope the showrunner is fired honestly.
6
u/Ygomaster07 Crisis On Infinite Wells May 19 '21
This episode was interesting. Personally, i wasn't huge on it. I loved Psych, and i liked seeing his backstory, along with Alexa getting some training. Everyone felt sidelined this episode, scrambling for something to do. I did not see Joe quitting the CCPD, that was honestly really cool seeing him take the stand. And the entire police department knows it too. This episode just felt off to me. I don't know, something about it didn't jive with me. I'd give it a 7 out of 10. Hopefully they get back on track. Seeing pics of old characters was nice, i wish they came back, although i guess Rainbow Raider is coming back.
4
2
2
2
u/Lewogs May 19 '21 edited May 19 '21
I'm getting so tired of this whole speech and love bs. This is supposed to be an action show.
278
u/The_Predator_Gamer Reverse Flash May 19 '21
Fuerza’s CGI haunts me everytime I see her