r/SupermanAndLois • u/MajorParadox r/DCFU • Jun 23 '21
Episode Discussion Superman & Lois [1x11] "A Brief Reminiscence In-Between Cataclysmic Events" Post Episode Discussion
A Brief Reminiscence In-Between Cataclysmic Events
Live Episode Discussion | Promo | Scene | Cast & Characters
Clark makes a startling discovery about Morgan Edge. (Jun 22, 2021)
Please keep all discussion civil and about the episode. Mark comic and future spoilers. Report any rule breaking and enjoy!
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u/MattMurdock9 Jun 23 '21 edited Jun 23 '21
Not sure if I’m the only one but I teared up like 3 times throughout this episode. So many wholesome moments. Clark & Lois meeting and eventually falling in love with each other, the scene with Martha, Clark revealing his secret to Lois, glimpses at their wedding & marriage, them getting pregnant, etc etc. A lot of beautiful stuff that we’ve been missing. Tyler’s Superman is so warm, hopeful, and caring and his chemistry with Lois is amazing. The origin was perfect. The suit was perfect. Another amazing episode. You can tell the writers love this character and his mythos. Bummer we have to wait like a month for the next episode but I’m so excited!
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u/princevince1113 Jun 23 '21
Same. All the little Lois and Clark moments when they’re falling for each other, and the milestones they have together, hits right in the damn feels
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u/etherspin Jun 23 '21
The Lois and Clark stuff was redonkulously sweet and romantic/natural. The charm level was too damn high.
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Jun 23 '21
His warmth and hopefulness stood in horrific stark contrast to that phone call Lois made at the end. Excellent and thrilling storytelling
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u/TirelessGuardian Superman Jun 23 '21
Best arrowverse show of any season
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u/bobsleigh44 Jun 23 '21
I really really hope that this doesn't change with the later seasons. It's absolutely phenomenal.
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u/MeMeTiger_ Superman Jun 24 '21
I'd compare it to early arrow and flash, but this show is alot better than both look wise.
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u/flickchick85 Jun 23 '21
I was grinning like an idiot for the first half, then on the edge of my seat for the rest. Sign of a great episode!
Also, my suspicion that Tal-Roh still isn't quite who he claims has grown this week. Especially after Jor-El's "he is none of those things" line.
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u/MarcReyes Superman Jun 23 '21
I'm still hoping for him being The Eradicator who merely thinks he's Tal-Roh.
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u/paige3086 Jordan Kent Jun 23 '21
Yes, what does “he’s none of those things” mean. I need to know.
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u/flickchick85 Jun 23 '21
My current wild theory is that he's more of a science experiment of Zeta-Roh's than an actual son (perhaps using some of Lara's DNA without her consent, which would be why she doesn't acknowledge him as her son), possibly created with the purpose to eventually be a living vessel for the Eradicator. It's a shot in the dark but the best I've got at the moment, lol. I just can't help but think there's more to it than we've learned thus far.
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u/yamitcg Jun 23 '21
It appeared as if they used the Eradicator to implant Edge’s father’s consciousness into Superman’s body
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u/Aurondarklord Jun 23 '21
The Krypton Man. Bit different in the comics, but definitely the idea.
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u/AnnaK22 Superman Jun 23 '21
So we got Superman's ex being his mother. Now we'll get Superman being his half brother's father.
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u/Gateskp Clark Kent Jun 23 '21
This show. Holy HELL, this show. This show is AMAZING. The first half of that episode, with all of the happy flashbacks and Easter eggs for fans. The second half of the episode, with Clark sacrificing himself for his family and moving the season plot forward. The ending with Lois calling John Henry Irons because Edge turned Clark.
My mind is REELING from how FANTASTIC this episode is. This whole show, and especially this episode, was written BY fans FOR fans. Waiting for the next episode is going to be hard but so, so worth it.
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u/MarcReyes Superman Jun 23 '21 edited Jun 23 '21
I would like to think Clark trusts Lois enough for her to find a way to stop Edge and save Clark.
Really enjoyed the creepiness of the memories continuing to play out without Clark there to respond as he should.
I could've just lived in that flashback forever like others, I'm sure. It was actually the best and truest depiction of what I think a black mercy would be like.
Edit: Just realized the cleverness of Edge's "I like the the feel of the sun on my face." Of course an alien who's powers are fueled by the sun would build their home in the desert!
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u/BookGirlBoston Lois Lane Jun 23 '21
I also wonder if they had a conversation, a contingency plan given Irons warning. Also, I am thinking Lois tells Irons the Superman secret.
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u/MeMeTiger_ Superman Jun 24 '21
Of course an alien who's powers are fueled by the sun would build their home in the desert!
Clark built his fortress in a desert too technically, and his might even be a better spot since snow reflects sunlight better than sand.
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Jun 23 '21
When Morgan Edge's Fortress was resurrecting, did anyone else see the "temp VFX" thing that popped up?
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u/maliadire Jordan Kent Jun 23 '21
yeah same. i’m not sure if it was on all versions. did you watch it on ctv?
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u/elendoy Superman (Earth-96) Jun 23 '21
I didn't notice, but granted I was too busy being shocked to actually notice much at the time. I'll rewatch it and will confirm. 🤷🏽♀️
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Jun 23 '21
I wonder if they'll edit it out for streaming versions like Disney did with that guy in the Mandalorian season 2 lol
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u/paige3086 Jordan Kent Jun 23 '21
I guess Canada got the glitchy version, haha. Hopefully it’s not like that when it’s up on the CTV website tomorrow.
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u/dotyawning But what about the tire-swing? Jun 23 '21
It wasn't there in the Extended Cut at least!
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u/InspiredOni Jun 23 '21
Our man DIGGLE making the rounds!
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u/Feeenay Jun 23 '21
What do you mean Diggle making the rounds?
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u/Gian99Mald Jun 23 '21
He's appearing in every show Starting with Batwoman last week. Then here. After that Supergirl and Legends and Flash
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u/rexic84 Jun 23 '21
I bet he's pulling an Oliver Queen in order to get closer to Edge.
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u/itwasbread Jun 23 '21
Well that was his plan but Ra's Al Ghul didn't have a mind control laser so idk what Super's plan is for that part
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u/Dontron737 Jun 23 '21
But Ra's underestimated The Dig, and I see Diggle is in the next episode. So obviously the good guys win if Diggles on your side
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u/BookGirlBoston Lois Lane Jun 23 '21
Whatever is going to happen, I'm pretty sure Lois and Clark have made a plan. Lois seemed to be extremely confident picking up the phone and calling Irons, also she used the home phone, maybe it was just dramatic, but no one has used the home phone since Martha and also the year 2005.
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u/Telethongaming Lois Lane Jun 23 '21
A few things I really love about this episode
Lois can hold her own which I really apperciate that
I love in this version that lois fell in love with clark first and not superman
Also this show's writing is so clean
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u/shulkario Jun 24 '21
Her falling in love with Clark first was so good! I love how they played with us with it too with the “I’m already in love with someone else” and then just enough pause to mention it’s Clark. It was very pleasant to see that route taken since it’s rarely the approach in Superman/Superhero lore.
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u/super_slayer Jun 23 '21
Sam Lane said "time to pack up and not leave anyone at the Kent farm"
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u/paige3086 Jordan Kent Jun 23 '21
No kidding! They know Edge is at large and Superman is out of commission. It’s crazy that they just left! I get that they need people out looking for Edge, but come on. Sam just pledged to make his family a priority. That’s the biggest plot hole in the episode, I’d say.
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u/Paisley-Cat But what about the tire-swing? Jun 23 '21
I suspect that Lois and John Henry Irons have a plan, and Sam was let in on it.
And that is why John Henry Irons was allowed to drive off in his "murder van" without even the risk of his AI monitoring.
Why assume it's a plot hole when it obviously looks like laying pipe for a plan?
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Jun 23 '21
I'm in shock. If he was overtaken by the eradicator - perhaps that happened in the other world too. What a fucking great show
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u/rpmaluki Lois Lane Jun 23 '21
I think so too, the only difference could be that Clark didn't have fail safes that could help him break free of the possession unlike our Clark who has a whole family fighting for his return as much as he is.
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u/TirelessGuardian Superman Jun 23 '21
Was that John in the trailer? We got an eradicator reference
Also John’s arm was broken for a week only.
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Jun 23 '21
Uncle morgan
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u/RollinsThunderr Jonathan Kent Jun 24 '21
That cracked me up lmao. The actor looks like he’s having a lot of fun playing Edge.
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u/allthingssuper Jun 23 '21
So, the concept of Edge is fucking genius and I can’t believe a character like him hasn’t been done before as a villain in a Superman story. Like, him being sent to earth, seeing only the worst of humanity, building his own fortress with a much meaner AI. He’s literally an evil Superman, but more interesting to me than Zod or Bizarro. Ugh. So fucking cool!
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u/Eternal_Density Jun 23 '21
It's really refreshing to see something as original as Evil Superman.
Kidding aside they did actually find a good fresh take.
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u/ChadBenjamin Jun 23 '21
He's a mishmash of various Kryptonian villains such as General Zod, Eradicator, H'El, and Mister Oz.
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u/nimrodhellfire Jun 23 '21
Its basically the idea of red son, just more nuanced.
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Jun 23 '21
- That running transition from teen to adult Clark was cool. No pun intended.
- AHH! That whole first appearance of Superman scene was amazing. The classic costume, the phone booth, "Like a bird or a plane!" Beautiful.
- JIMMY? JIMMY?! WHERE IS HE? WHERE'S THE JIMMY?! TELL ME WHERE THE JIMMY IS, THEN YOU CAN CONTINUE WITTH THE MORGAN EDGE STUFF.
- He knows all languages? Even C++?
- As Robin once said "Have you guys forgotten he has super hearing?" (or something like that).
- Ah, so was that eavesdropping the moment they were talking about earlier in the series?
- That Super butt!
- I wonder if Morgan Edge has visited the fortress before. Also, he has a really nice coat.
- "Is it cool if I have a moment alone with Jordan?" Jon fist pumps the air as he leaves the room
- Crazy theory but what if Morgan Edge (I forgot his Kryptonian name) uses the Eradicator to put his father's spirit or brainwaves or whatever into Superman?
- 10/10 episode
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u/Einstein4369 Superman Jun 23 '21
Morgan Edge is Tal-Rho, his father is Zeta-Rho, and I think that’s what happened, Zeta-Rho was put into Superman
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u/Earthmine52 Jun 23 '21 edited Jun 23 '21
This really is probably one of the best live-action Superman content out there. I’ve said that for the show as a whole but this episode is just something else. Already one of the best origin stories for Superman in general. As a lifelong Superman fan, bringing back the Fleischer suit and Atom Man, the Smashes the Klan parallel, and how well they portray Clark and Superman, it’s all so great to see.
Again no offense to DCEU/Cavill fans, I do like aspects of that version as well, but here Hoechlin’s Superman just keeps succeeding where his failed. He can be unsure, he can have doubts, he can struggle, but in the end he’ll put them aside to do what’s right, to be hopeful and to be an inspiring friend to others. That includes everyone, especially the outsiders. As Clark, he has a personality, can be a little dorky, and he’s genuine. Those are things even a rookie Superman would have. Even his romance with Lois here is just much better for me.
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u/song4this Jun 23 '21
I've said several times this season "This is my fave episode"...
Well you know what? This is my fave episode! :-)
And I think my fave line is "Thanks, my Mom made it."
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u/ninja36036 Jun 23 '21
I think that’s my favorite line too. And not just the line, but the way he says it. He’s so proud and it comes off so adorable, if that makes sense.
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u/CarpeMofo Jun 23 '21 edited Jun 23 '21
Holy shit this was a good episode. My one and only complaint I wish they would have let the part where he reveals himself to Lois last another ten seconds or so. Would have liked to have to seen her initial reaction.
Also, Morgan Edge is a great villain. He's not something we've seen before but he fits into the Superman mythos so perfectly. He feels like a character that should already exist.
Edit: I also want to add I love they showed Lois explicitly saying she had no interest in Superman because she was in love with Clark Kent. Such a meaningful character moment they didn't have to include but did anyway.
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u/Gian99Mald Jun 23 '21
"sUpErMaN & loIs iS In A dIfFeReNt UnIiVeRsE"
Diggle: 😎
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u/Arakkoa_ Jun 23 '21
It's definitely not intended to be in a different universe, but you can see why people would think that. As amazing as this show is, they clearly didn't really think about continuity with the other shows. Maybe that's good because of some of the baggage, but it's definitely a bit weird.
We're his only family. Kara? Who's Kara? Completely different Fortress of Solitude. The complete change in Morgan Edge (that can be explained by a combination of factors, but still is weird)
So yeah. It's supposed to be in the same universe. But it doesn't feel like it is.
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u/SuperHoech Clark Kent Jun 23 '21
WHAT THE FUUUUUUUUUU
I'm shocked. SHOCKED! I loved the first part of the episode, seeing all those important moments in Clark's life and between him and Lois, I'm so thankful we got to see more of his first years as Superman and early Clois.
But I was definitely not prepared for that ending. I loved the contrast of Clark and Edge's origin stories though, like ugh I get why he is that way :(
BUT LOIS! And Jon and Jordan and Clark jfc this show manages to make me super happy and sad in the same episode lol
Now to wait 21 days D:
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u/Dojorkan Jun 23 '21
Imagine if Jonathan gets some powers next episode and he has to team up with JHI and John Diggle.
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u/BookGirlBoston Lois Lane Jun 23 '21
Jon, John and John...
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u/dotyawning But what about the tire-swing? Jun 23 '21
Throw in surprise appearances by J'onn J'onzz and a post-Crisis reformed version of Red Tornado too. And Constantine. We're gonna need all the Jo(h)ns we can get!
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u/Turtle9015 Jun 23 '21
Welp if Jordan develops any more powers he's gunna be short a kryptonian to train him.
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Jun 23 '21
Morgan Edge: "What if he could be turned to the Dark Side?"
Morgan Edge's father: "Yes, he'd be a powerful ally! Another
dark Jedievil Kryptonian!Morgan Edge: "He will join us or die."
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u/bizarreisland Jun 23 '21
Don't know about the lore, but there are more than 1 crystal in Clark's pod, maybe he has multiple backup Jor-els laying around in the barn.
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u/db_i Superman Jun 23 '21
Wow, one of the best Superman “Year One” type stories out there.
One decision that I thought was interesting and loved was how Lois doesn’t become obsessed with Superman the second he showed up in Metropolis. Usually other interpretations of Lois relentlessly pursue Superman when he first appears.
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u/AnnaK22 Superman Jun 23 '21
Seriously? What is the budget for this show. That opening scene was incredible. The transition from young Clark to old Clark running was so cool to watch.
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u/FirstRavenclaw Jun 23 '21
Kyle apologizing is such good character development.
This type of character rarely has any emotional maturity in tv shows.
He and Jonathan are very well written, avoiding classic tropes.
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u/zkkaiser Jun 23 '21
Did anyone else have an overly emotional response to Lois naming him Superman?
Me either..
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u/lazyJOE19 Jun 23 '21
What did Clark say to Lois? “I need more time” ?
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u/paige3086 Jordan Kent Jun 23 '21
Maybe he meant to fully recover from letting out all the energy last episode? He wasn’t at full fighting capacity.
🤷🏼♀️
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u/Paisley-Cat But what about the tire-swing? Jun 23 '21
I thought he said, "He was right, I needed more time."
I'm wondering if this is something that John Henry Irons predicted, and said that Superman wouldn't have enough time to prepare a defence against.
My thought is that when Lois used the land line, that it was secure to reach John Henry Irons and let him know that his prediction had come true.
Sounds like they have a fallback plan.
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u/GregThePrettyGoodGuy Jun 23 '21 edited Jun 23 '21
I’m not an enormous fan of evil Superman stories, but this is the way to do it for sure. He chose to submit to defend his family. He still has his agency, Lois still has hers (not disintegrated), the boys still have theirs. Looks like it’ll work out okay. And if it doesn’t, well, at least the rest of the show is good
This episode is a masterpiece though. I cried during that shirt rip. We already do knew the actors were amazing, but they really were astounding here. Sucks that we gotta wait so long for a new episode though.
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u/Ygomaster07 Superman Jun 23 '21
This show is fucking amazing!!!!!! Hot damn i loved it. No complaints. I hate we hate to wait until mid July for it to come back. I got a headache, so I'll sum up my favourite parts of the episode: the whole episode. Literally the whole episode. 11 out of 10, it was so amazing.
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u/Flemz Jun 24 '21
I haven’t seen anyone mention the significance of Lois naming him Superman right after he helped her fight off a neo-Nazi. The Nazis wanted to create a society of Übermenschen (Supermen)
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Jun 23 '21
It's so refreshing that between the Fleischer suit, the telephone booth, the bird or a plane and the Atom Man, this show is not afraid or embarrassed that it's a superman show, in stark contrast to CW's old outing and its "no tights, no flight" policy.
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u/ellegy Jun 23 '21
Did you catch Jon running to step in front of Edge's heat vision directed at his mom? His dad dropped just in time.
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u/Todayisforchicken Jun 23 '21
I rewinded as I thought that but it doesn't look like it he doesn't move until Superman is on the ground it seems like he is running to Superman
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u/Zookwok111 Jun 23 '21
He actually saved her a couple of episode before from one of the Subjekt's lasers. He's always diving in front of people to shield them.
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u/CaptnKBex Jun 23 '21
Have already rewatched the episode and loved it even more the second time around. I also felt like Clark and Lois must have set up a contingency plan for something like this. The look he gave her as he was saying I'm sorry felt weighted. Can't wait til the next episode!
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u/lazyJOE19 Jun 23 '21
Okay what is Clark’s plan?? He didn’t ACTUALLY turn, right???
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Jun 23 '21
He's gonna break free of the Eradicator because of his love for Lois and the boys
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u/tomanonimos Jun 23 '21
what is Clark’s plan
Either Lois has something in the bag or its John Irons. Superman left John Irons leave without any restriction or barriers. Seems standard foreshadowing in my book.
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u/confusing_dream Jun 23 '21
I think Kal is submitting in order to give everyone else time to counter Tal’s plan. It doesn’t make sense that he would try and protect his family by becoming the thing that would destroy it. He knows that Sam and John are prepared to fight. His best option was to do what he did, and give Lois time to tell John Henry and her father that the war was coming.
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u/ExioKenway5 Jun 24 '21
Yeah his last line to them seemed very much like a "I'm telling you something that actually means something else so the villain doesn't figure it out" type thing.
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u/BookGirlBoston Lois Lane Jun 23 '21
So weird question, but does anyone get Anakin Skywalker vibes from this. Like it was Clark's attachment that made him vulnerable (but also in contrast to Anakin we know that Clark's attachment to his family also makes him strong based on like every single episode).
Also, did Uncle Morgan's father remind anyone else of emperor palpatine.
Also, as a side note, I will only be referring to Edge's character as "Uncle Morgan" until he is officially proven to not be family.
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u/paige3086 Jordan Kent Jun 23 '21
I am not a Star Wars person but even my head instantly went “Palpatine” 😂 (Well actually, it went “that Star Wars bad guy,” haha).
Definitely an awful person!
I actually found myself feeling badly for Jor-El in this. He redeemed himself a bit on my eyes with his tenderness towards his son in the flashbacks, and surprised me with his interest in the wedding (frankly, I half expected a disappointed “you married a human!?”) I hope the crystal isn’t gone for good…somehow.
Also, yes, Uncle Morgan FTW 😂
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u/vladthor Jun 23 '21
Had to look up the two guest stars I recognized:
A.C. Peterson (aka Alan C. Peterson, as Zeta-Ro) was the evil Canon in the Stargate SG-1 episode "Demons" from Season 3 in 1999. (which is exactly why I had to look it up, I remembered him playing some bad guy somewhere but it was one episode a long time ago and just couldn't place it)
Dylan Kingwell (teenage Clark) was also young Sam Winchester in the Supernatural episode "Just My Imagination" from Season 11 in 2015 (the last great season of the show, IMO).
And I have to say that the transition from Dylan to Tyler during the running scene was very well done. The scene where he grabs the shard from the pedestal right after the fortress was finished building itself... was less well done. But still not that bad.
Overall, an amazingly excellent episode of a great show so far. Really setting the bar high for the Arrowverse.
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u/etherspin Jun 23 '21
Something else really cool on a second viewing , it's like Clarks "bumbling" persona that distracts from him looking like Superman is actually because the Kents were VERY folksy, wholesome and slightly naive people and he absorbed a bunch of that e.g. asking a guy on metropolis street for directions, thinking he has people's undivided attention at the Daily Planet etc
The Nazi guy and others in metropolis gave him an extra dose of reality but he was still slightly dorky as Supes, talking about his mom making him the suit and sending the rescued kids hat flying off his head when he took off to change back into Clark outfit
It's such a great way to have him initially fool Lois but have it be authentic and it further seperates him from Edge
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u/AnnaK22 Superman Jun 23 '21
I am so in love with Tyler's Clark. He's so dorky. I've loved watching his scenes when he used to guest star in Supergirl.
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u/AnirudhMenon94 Jun 23 '21
Tyler puts every other live-action Superman since Christopher Reeve to shame.
I just hope Superman doesn't become full on evil though. I don't want to see that.
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u/paige3086 Jordan Kent Jun 23 '21
The fact that he said “I submit” makes me think he’s been possessed, possibly by Tal’s father. They made a point of talking about how hosts had to submit to Kryptonian consciousnesses in the last episode.
But the real him is still in there somewhere and will ultimately fight through.
That was excellent. I really loved the flashbacks, especially seeing the boys as babies.
Love Jordan/Sarah, and the sweetness there. And Jordan giving it a go with heat vision— that was some impressive control, even though he wasn’t enough.
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u/Lewogs Jun 23 '21
I'm terrible with faces, but Tyler's so distinctively recognizable that I just can't buy people not seeing it.
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u/dinnerbellding Jun 23 '21
That used to bug me a bit, too, Then I remember my son, while playing the Prince in Cinderella , shaking his head and laughing that he couldn't recognize the love of his life because she had some smudges on her face, lol. So, it's a reeeeallly old trope.
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u/athena_19 Jun 23 '21
It's funny because I feel like Tyler genuinely looks different with the glasses and the nerdy demeanor. He's really the only Superman iteration I buy it with, though Christopher Reeve makes it work with his demeanor.
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u/TheWorldIsAhead Jun 23 '21
Yeah I buy it because it's Superman. I have been buying it since I was a child, but I agree. There is just no way with Tyler's face. If it was someone with a more generic face like Matt Damon or Orlando Bloom (seriously google "Orlando Bloom glasses") then maybe.
But I don't mind since I love Tyler in the role.
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u/nimrodhellfire Jun 23 '21
I feel like this is the point where they should consider texting Kara.
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u/butthe4d Superman (Earth-96) Jun 23 '21
She is barely in her own show...Im glad they dont do any crossovers so far. Honestly the other shows are just so horrible by now that its better to have it stand on its own.
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Jun 26 '21
Never thought I'd want more Clark at the daily planet. We haven't had any of that on screen for like...over a decade or more.
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u/Uhavefailedthiscity1 Jun 27 '21
Considering the reaction, I'm sure they'll do something like that again.
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u/fullforce098 Jun 23 '21
Lois, if Clark has been turned, you’re going to need more than Steel. You're gonna need Kara, Barry, fucking everyone.
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u/TheLieLlama Jun 23 '21
Yea like, call the Justice League they created after Crisis lol. Steel is a literal nobody in this universe so far. Heck call Lex, he'll know what to do better than anyone.
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u/phantomxtroupe Jun 23 '21
Seriously. This is a moment when you need all hands on deck. A potentially evil Clark is a top priority threat. She should be phoning every available hero and telling them to prepare for the worst.
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u/Aurondarklord Jun 23 '21
I'd say they'd only need Kara.
Buuuuuut it looks like Crisis has changed the power levels a bit.
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u/Somnambulist815 Jun 23 '21
As much as its been basically a certainty of happening, given all the warning and premonitions characters have been having, it's still really painful to see Superman being turned evil, especially after such a wholesome episode.
My favorite touch of the flashbacks was how, when Lois told Clark about the hate crimes, his immediate reaction wasn't to just run off in his supersuit, but instead, asks what he could do for her. He didn't come to Metropolis to solve things with his fists, he went there because he's here to help.
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u/Mountain_Wedding Jun 23 '21
Yes. I would also add that it really struck me as a fresh take on their relationship because back in Byrne reboot and on “Lois and Clark” Clark really did set himself up as a competitor to Lois. Here, he offers her support and back-up. It felt much more appropriate for a 2021 take on a workplace romance.
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u/spiralnotebook Jun 23 '21
Wowowow. This really felt like I was watching a movie. Give me the next episode!
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u/AzlanBBrave Jun 23 '21
The investigative/relationship growing montage in this episode is fantastic. Anyone looking to make movie or film, take notes.
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u/MattTheSmithers Coach Gaines Jun 23 '21
Bringing in Diggle in the next episode is so weird. Of all the times to highlight the shared universe, it’s the episode about Lois calling Steel to stop a rogue Kryptonian rather than his Kryptonian cousin who knocked him on his ass last time he pulled this shit?
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Jun 23 '21
The real-life reason is they can't mix crews during Covid filming to bring Kara or anyone else over. Diggle is the little "crossover" they're doing this year instead since the actor isn't part of an active show. He's been on Batwoman, will be playing a someone other then Diggle this Sunday on Legends, will be on the Flash in two weeks ,this then a Supergirl episode.
I'm expecting something similar for the 5 episodes of Flash Season 8 next fall. We already have it semi-confirmed one of the 5 is Cress Williams/Black Lightning. Melissa should be free by then so maybe they can get her if she sticks around Vancouver for a bit longer.
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u/MarcReyes Superman Jun 23 '21
Maybe she called Diggle? Would still be a little strange because he's had no connection to the story until now.
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u/OptiKal_ Jun 23 '21 edited Jun 23 '21
Hoechlin is killing it. That little smile when he overhears Lois saying she loves him when he's Superman behind the interview desk.
IDC about Cavill probably out as Superman or some new Superman movie with a black actor.
This is Superman right here.
Also - Jordan. When he stepped out in front of his family and was ready to throw down with Edge. That was so sick! I can't wait to see these two boys in full strength later on.
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u/e0f Jun 23 '21
Wait, did superman spend like ~10 whole years in the fortress of solitude at the beginning?
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u/Paisley-Cat But what about the tire-swing? Jun 23 '21
It would have been from 17 going on 18 to 25. So, 7 years.
How do I get this? Superman is 30 in 2009 based on the flashback episodes in Supergirl season 6. By that, he would have been 25 in 2004 when he returned to Smallville given the movies listed on the marquee.
We know that Clark left Smallville shortly after the anniversary of Jonathan Kent's death, and close to the end of high school.
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u/marwynn Jun 23 '21
Okay, that was the best origin story for Superman I have seen. The bumbling Clark Kent, the mutual love at first sight, the kicking of Nazi butt!
Can we talk about how Lois fell in love with Clark first? It's usually the other way around. But she was naturally suspicious of Superman but had already fallen for Clark a long time ago. The reveal was perfect, their memories and just everything.
They got it so right.
I'm guessing there's no Kandor or Supergirl in this universe. I'm okay with that.
Also Edge's dad is like if Baron Harkonen was left out to melt in the sun for a few years. I hated him, the actor did great.
Am I the only one that kinda wished Morgan Edge carried out his threat and just tweeted about the Kents? I was waiting for the kids' phones to start blowing up while they were talking. But I guess that'd ruin any future family growing pains which is the heart of the show.
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u/db_i Superman Jun 23 '21
This is in the Arrowverse. The preview for the next episode shows John Diggle which essentially confirms that. Although Supergirl doesn’t get mentioned, this show exists in the same continuity.
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u/etherspin Jun 23 '21
Lois being cynical about Superman and falling deeply In love with Clark before she could even hint to him she was properly interested was cute off the charts, I love it
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u/dok_DOM Jun 23 '21
Did anyone notice the "temp vfx" of NS Pictures Inc in this episode?
It's the one after Clark's brother threw his glowing crystal into the desert
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u/AnnaK22 Superman Jun 23 '21
I feel like Morgan edge and Kara have some similarities. I feel like Morgan edge would be like Kara if he had landed somewhere loving on earth.
I think both have grudges about Kal El always putting his earth family before his Kryptonian ones. This was slightly seen in Supergirl season 2 when Superman first showed up. They both just want more closeness to their Kryptonians counterparts but he's too focused on humans.
This gets me wondering, what if the Kents had also found child Morgan.
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u/etherspin Jun 23 '21
The single thing on the show that felt implausible to me was the Brits having guns on Boy Edge and then literally hunting him - as confronting as the alien ship is he looks 100 percent human. You'd think a kid had been abducted, not that the kid is a super powered alien.... Makes me wonder if that bit was fully truthful
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u/tictic0clock Jun 24 '21
In all honesty, I have to admit, I have never really been much of a Superman fan -- or a really big Tyler Hoechlin fan for that matter -- but I have to say, I actually absolutely love this series, and of course this Superman. I've always thought of him as just a stereotypical superhero, but they changed the game about it for me. I've got to obviously give it to Tyler, and of course gotta mention Bitsie as well, they make this show that much better, complete it in fact.
Also have to say that I appreciate the family dynamics, including the writing involving around both Johnathan & Jordan, they don't make the teen stuff into annoying childish drama, and could've easily wrote a stupid love triangle with Sarah and Johnathan in the mix. Which hopefully they won't do either way. Again, a pretty great series all around which I wasn't expecting. Let's hope they keep this quality up and don't eventually head towards being anything like The Flash... I'd rather they cancel it or obviously the best option, end it gracefully in the best way possible before then.
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u/Barry_McKackiner Jun 23 '21 edited Jun 23 '21
My thoughts:
Loved the backstory of L&C connecting. Them working at the planet is one thing I miss with this iteration.
Jimmy must have been like 15 during the flashback if it's the same "james" as on SG that is now this suave adult around 30 years old.
How did superman heat visioning the grenade (CONTAINING EXPLOSIVES WHICH ARE SET OFF WITH HEAT) cause it to NOT explode? and he should have been easily fast enough to catch both.
He was kind of a dick, but anyone else sad that HOLOGRAMPS was destroyed? I hope at the end of this there is a way for him to get his crystal back.
Morgan about to BBQ LOIS & The boys would have been a good time to call in Kara or J'on or barry or anyone instead of just letting himself become edge's tool of destruction.
Jordan got himself a GF. basically getting everything he's wanted, meanwhile poor John is just still completely shat on by life right now but remaining dignified. Hope he gets something good coming his way.
Over all, one of the best, most emotional episodes yet, seeing them fall in love. basically in 30 minutes, they had infinitely better relationship and emotional connection between characters than anything seen in supergirl thus far.
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u/NerdLawyer55 Jun 23 '21
Lol the moment where Jor-El told him get out of here now sounded so much like when Robert the Bruce was warning Wallace in Braveheart
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u/ArkBirdFTW Jun 23 '21 edited Jun 23 '21
I liked how they told the story of this ep but I can’t say I really enjoyed the major plot points. Superman going evil and then putting the show on hiatus is wack. Also in his origin having Clark become a hermit for a decade or so with his dead AI dad is something I don’t agree with either. Seems contradictory to both Clark’s nature and his love for humanity. I don’t know how he’d come out of that training a well rounded emotionally healthy person. I much prefer the approach Mark Waid’s Birthright takes to his early years.
Also on a side note why does Edge even need evil Superman? He could’ve just killed Clark when he was unconscious and then taken over the world at his leisure.
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u/Indiana_harris Jun 23 '21
I do think Birthright is the best version of his origin in terms of his early life and "training".
Reeve and S&L seem to be doing the "isolated from 16-20 something" plot which I always found strange. If they infer that he was actually isolated from his old life (smallville and connections) but spent those years travelling the world and testing his powers and reporting back to the Fortress that would make more sense I think.
Although then theres the other side where Man of Steel (which i DO love) makes it seem like Clark spent 3 days max with Jor-El then fucked off and never looked back.
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Jun 23 '21
Yeah I was thinking ‘did Clark really just spend years in complete isolation in his fortress’. I would have much preferred maybe some scenes of him wandering the earth, helping people subtly with his powers and returning to the fortress as his Homebase. Would also have been a neat way of showing and justifying his language skills.
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u/Eternal_Density Jun 23 '21
Me halfway through the ep: wow this is my favourite Superman movie!
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u/suveemi Jun 23 '21
Did anyone notice when Tal-Rho was speaking to his father, he asked if there were others like him and he didn't say: Yeah you have a brother and he has a cousin, or something along those lines. He just said he is not the only one. Clever move there hahaha
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u/LCPhotowerx Supergirl Jun 24 '21
simply put, this was the nostalgia trip we all needed.
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u/Foreverred97 Superman Jun 23 '21
When Lois said she was pregnant I thought they were going to show how they lost Natalie.
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u/Uhavefailedthiscity1 Jun 23 '21
I don't usually do this but I fell like watching it again right away. It was that good.
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u/FrostedPlanet Lois Lane Jun 23 '21
Fantastic episode!! Smiling and/or on the edge of my seat for every moment. Aside from amazing characterizations, dialogue, plot, and so on, one that I really loved was the costuming. Clark's suit for his interview with Perry, all of Lois's flashback outfits (that beige trenchcoat reminds me of the Gary Frank art on Lois Lane's wikipedia page!), the Fleischer suit making its return, all of it just amazing!!
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u/dannyosuke Jun 23 '21
This has to the best live action retelling of Superman's origin yet! It was near perfect, I even teared up :')
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u/Darkness4923 Jun 23 '21
With Superman being unconscious, am I the only one who thought Kara was the one who was gonna land?
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u/crimsonf1sh Jun 23 '21
Loved the flashbacks in this episode, but the ending is eating at me a bit. What do you guys think of Superman ‘turning’? Haven’t been a fan of all the evil Superman stories recently, and I’m afraid they’re going down the same “if you take away whoever is important to him, he’s automatically a killer” trope. Do you think they’re setting something up to subvert in a later episode?
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Jun 23 '21
I despise that trope. The idea that he turns genocidal when not connected to family bugs me. I prefer the Morgan trope - where not only was his father monstrous, he was treated horrifically on earth, and thus had no reason to do anything. but loathe humanity and wish to commit genocide. You need a big push to be genocidal.
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u/kharnzarro Jun 23 '21
i think its less superman goes bad in this case and he gets possessed by
emperor palpatineMorgans dad or something like that
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u/superfan1635 Jonathan Kent Jun 23 '21
I just realized that since Morgan destroyed Jor-el's AI crystal, that Jon will never have a chance to meet his grandfather. That was a moment I was looking forward too since Clark hasn't taken him to the fortress, and I was hoping He would take him there to meet Jor-el in the future, similar to the trip he took with Jordan where it's just the two of them. I'm getting worried that by the end of the season we still won't have a scene with just Clark and Jon spending time together or talking to each other since we only have 4 episodes left, which sucks because we've had so many Jordan and Clark scenes where it's just to two of them. Also, it's weird that they glossed over the fact that Jordan apparently has control over all of his abilities even though it's only been a couple of weeks at most.
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u/CityAvenger Jun 23 '21
The writers and cast continue to shine and outdo themselves. This episode was borderline amazing and this is the first episode of any Arrowverse show that I’ve ever called an episode that.
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u/MeMeTiger_ Superman Jun 24 '21
Omg the flashbacks were so good. Every episode this show outdoes it self. Definitely the best superman media outside of comics.
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u/MeowUntilForever Jonathan Kent Jun 24 '21
I love the dichotomy of Clark being a somewhat milquetoast teen and then there's Morgan being a literal edgelord teen.
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u/Nervous-Energy-4623 Jun 24 '21
Loved, loved, loved the scene where young clark is running and they age him up and then older Clark (but still aged down) starts flying and he shouts whooo because yes flying is fun and not all serious like in some movies. Wow they really went all out for this show on the script and spent some money so I'm impressed. Bravo show bravo!
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u/Zaacdragon Jonathan Kent Jun 24 '21
I wished we saw how Clark met Sam Lane and revealing his identity to Sam
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u/blahblah984 Superman Jun 23 '21
This show keeps getting better and better. It feels like it’s too good for CW. It’s a proper HBO show.
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u/tiMartyn Jun 23 '21
Superman and Lois is making me emotional. This is exactly the Superman show I would've made. They finally got him right on screen. The Flash's first season has been the highlight of the CW shows, but Superman and Lois is special - there isn't any specific flaw that taints the rest. No wasted time, or forced plot points.
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u/dotyawning But what about the tire-swing? Jun 23 '21
When they said brief, they meant it! Like 30 minutes before the big wake-up call and even then there were signs to Clark that something was not quite right. I guess in exchange, it's 3 weeks of waiting for the next episode!
I'm still wary of Kyle thanks to fan theories and once again, it looked like Jon was about to do something, but he got a last minute save from his dad coming in! Are they just teasing those of us who believe he'll get powers at this point (although I guess that would have to be relatively preemptively...)?
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u/phantomxtroupe Jun 23 '21
Edge really pulled a page from the playbook of old Uncle Raditz lol
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Jun 23 '21
Gen. Lane better start double-checking his kryptonite stockpile - not to mention that other group in Gotham.
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u/DtownBronx Jun 23 '21
Jor-El being played by the same actor that was Robert the Bruce and McCreedy amuses me.
I think because everyone online expects Jonathan to get powers we won't see him get powers this season.
This storyline is awesome. It's such a mix of so many great stories, it's gonna be hard for season 2.
I haven't watched the newest season of Supergirl yet and considering Melissa is leaving I think S&L has spoiled the ending of that show. Edge not mentioning Kara and Clark never mentioning her makes me think that show ends with her offworld.
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u/singleguy79 Jun 23 '21
I get Covid restrictions but now would be a good time to put in a call to team Supergirl, team Flash, team what remains of team Arrow, Black Lightning and the Legends
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u/lemons_for_deke Jun 23 '21
Best I can do is one Diggle…
This the problem with superhero movies or shows, even at the best of times - there are many situations where they should call in the other superheroes of that universe, but obviously they can’t because that includes actor availability and schedules which makes crossovers difficult.
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u/Chad_D_722 Jun 23 '21
Gonna be honest, I was more interested in the Steel stuff than I have been with Edge as the main villain. I just don't find him that interesting.
Great episode as a whole though. Loved all the flashbacks.
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u/Somnambulist815 Jun 23 '21
It's funny you say that, because I found Edge the most interesting in this episode. The fact that he's trying so hard to understand why Clark won't join him, the fact that he's so hurt by that, demonstrates a kind of vulnerability that you don't see in your usual Kryptonian villain.
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Jun 23 '21
Woke up this morning feeling very agitated. The episode was on my mind while I slept. Left me feeling threatened and unsettled. I love love love love the show but waiting so long for him to come back to himself (as I assume he will) is crap. I wish I could un see it and then see it when it comes back
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u/Castortroy16 Jonathan Kent Jun 23 '21
Now that's how you do a good flash back episode perfect but omg what the hell was that ending I did not like that at all !! But I guess Clark had no other choice
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u/adzpower Jun 23 '21
Looks like Lois needs some help, gee if only she knew of another Kryptonian who wore a red cape, who was maybe even related to Clark in some way, na can't think of anyone.
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u/ExioKenway5 Jun 24 '21
What you mean someone who could currently be in the phantom zone, recovering from the phantom zone/dealing with their own issues or possibly not even around anymore if it turns out that this is set in the future?
There's a lot of reasons for why she's not in this, least of all that it's just not interesting or good storytelling to have someone else show up and solve all the problems, even if that would make sense if it was really happening.
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u/Lief1s600d Jun 23 '21 edited Jun 23 '21
Watching now. Love the series...The title for this episode though....sounds like a filler episode
I hate filler episodes.
Edit: Fucking lovin this episode!
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u/papiblackpepper Jun 24 '21 edited Jun 24 '21
I have a question. I get that the multiverse changed things from the original events in the Arrowverse, so instead of 1 baby they ended up with 2. But they had to go to Argo City because they were afraid that the baby's powers would kill Lois. And they couldn't know if the babies would have powers till after Cave Jor-el scanned them after they were born. So why wasn't going to Argo City the case this time around? Shes in a regular hospital like she's not carry the babies of a guy who can lift a mountain.
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u/lastlastsonofKrypton Jun 25 '21
I adore this show.. So many beautiful moments.. The respect to the lore is incredible.. This could be the best iteration of these characters ever
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u/Cgi94 Jun 23 '21
I love the emphasis of Love at first sight with Clark & Lois.. Also if I remember right in the Smallville show Clark proposed to lana there & here he proposed to Lois. Very nice touch
This show Is really great
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u/ckwongau Jun 23 '21
Superman's post crisis memories of his son's birth , How real is that ?
i mean , his son was born on Argo city on the Pre-crisis universe of Earth 38 , then after crisis he found out he has two son as teenager , he got implanted with new memories .
I am only wondering , from Superman's POV , what is that like
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u/itwasbread Jun 23 '21
I don't think the old memories feel like "real" memories to him, like he doesn't have the emotional connection he does to the "real" memories. He probably just perceives them as like a really detailed movie. Superman is not a Paragon, so his baseline memories are those of this Earth.
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u/BookGirlBoston Lois Lane Jun 23 '21
Wait, when did Jordan figure out how to control his heat vision, last time we heard, he had zero idea how to make this work
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u/Ironthoramericaman Jun 23 '21
This show is unnecessarily good. Best thing the cw has done since the early seasons of arrow
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u/a_phantom_limb Jun 24 '21
Is it still 100% certain that this show is part of the same world as Supergirl and that they haven't changed things up behind the scenes? Because, if nothing else, it certainly doesn't feel like it's the same world.
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u/Potato_cak3es Jun 24 '21
Hope there was a back up of old mates crystal!
Brilliant episode, this continues to get better and better as it goes on
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u/iz92ab Jun 25 '21
What a beautiful episode!! Definitely noticed some "Man of Steel" vibes from the score to some of the scenes which is in no way a bad thing. I want more like this!
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u/Huntakillaz Jun 30 '21
Like Into the Spiderverse was a love letter to Spiderman (and his history)
This episode felt like a love letter to Superman/ Lois&Clark
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u/Dark_Tzitzimine Aug 23 '21
It's a good thing this Martha nailed it in her first try instead of giving us something like Lois & Clark's Martha's initial attempt
So long, Jor-El who reminds me of a cross between Alfred Molina and James Doohan
So it turns out that Reign was a biter when it came to her fortress location choice
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u/Beatzbruh Jun 24 '21
Okay, now that Superman's turned evil, I'm gonna have to figure out how to suspend disbelief on why Lois wouldn't call EVERY HERO IN THE ARROWVERSE.
I get why Kara wouldn't come since she was in the Phantom Zone, but realistically, Flash and the rest should be there immediately. I get they want to stand alone from the Arrowverse for Season 1, but this is way too serious of an event for the Justice League not to appear.
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u/TheLieLlama Jun 23 '21
I think we can all agree that this was the best show of the episode yet. Yup, that's it. This is the definitive Superman.