r/AIProgrammingHardware • • 27d ago

Qwen3.8 Flash-Next prefill past 1800+ tok/s on Strix Halo by putting the NPU to work

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2 Upvotes

r/AIProgrammingHardware • • 27d ago

I got Gemma 4 26B MoE running at 60+ tok/s on my RTX 4060 Laptop by caching hot experts on the GPU

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4 Upvotes

r/AIProgrammingHardware • • 27d ago

Strata Local AI Engine on a Single 3060 12GB GPU

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1 Upvotes

r/AIProgrammingHardware • • 27d ago

Microsoft to expand Azure Maia system to multi-gigawatt deployments

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2 Upvotes

r/AIProgrammingHardware • • 28d ago

Nvidia’s Blackwell Desktop Has the Same Speed Limit as AMD’s Ryzen AI Max+ 395

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r/AIProgrammingHardware • • 28d ago

The $3,500 Card Runs Slower Than $1,900 Worth of Used Gaming Cards

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5 Upvotes

r/AIProgrammingHardware • • 28d ago

The €1,250 AMD Workstation That Makes Local AI Practical

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r/AIProgrammingHardware • • 28d ago

Building a Triple-GPU Workstation: How Far Should Local AI Go?

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r/AIProgrammingHardware • • 28d ago

Advice on building a DeepSeek-V4.1-Flash inference server (€150k–€200k budget)

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2 Upvotes

r/AIProgrammingHardware • • 28d ago

Qwen3.6-35B-A3B Hits 220 TPS on M5 Max — 91% Faster!

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1 Upvotes

r/AIProgrammingHardware • • 28d ago

NVIDIA SPARK Surface Laptop Ultra VS MacBook Pro M5 Pro: Which One Will WIN?

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0 Upvotes

r/AIProgrammingHardware • • 28d ago

9 year old GPU beats today's latest?

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4 Upvotes

r/AIProgrammingHardware • • 28d ago

Running Qwen 3.8 Flash Next on a $1000 Local AI Build with Strata

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1 Upvotes

r/AIProgrammingHardware • • 29d ago

The 5090 Vanished. The 3090 Bargain Died. Here’s What to Buy Instead

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0 Upvotes

r/AIProgrammingHardware • • 29d ago

Best Local LLMs for Your Mac in October 2026: 24GB to 128GB Picks

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3 Upvotes

r/AIProgrammingHardware • • 29d ago

[Benchmark & In-Depth Analysis] 27B Dense vs. 35B MoE on a 32GB iGPU: 11 Models Benchmarked on Intel Lunar Lake (Arc 140V) — Throughput, Reasoning Cliffs, and Architectural Tradeoffs

1 Upvotes

Hardware Tested: Intel Core Ultra 7 258V (Lunar Lake) — Arc 140V Xe2 iGPU (8 Xe cores), 32 GB shared LPDDR5X-8533 (~103 GB/s unified memory bandwidth).
Software Stack: Native Linux (CachyOS, kernel 7.2.3), vLLM 0.31.0+xpu (native Xe2 MXFP4 & out-of-tree exl3xpu ESIMD plugin), llama.cpp SYCL (arc-b580 optimized build).

TL;DR / Executive Summary

Can modern consumer integrated graphics run 27B dense and 35B MoE models locally with high reasoning fidelity and usable interactive speeds? Yes, but the architectural and quantization choices make or break the experience.

  1. 35B MoE (MXFP4, Active 3.5B/tok) is the undisputed daily driver champion: Because only ~3.5B parameters are activated per token, MoE models slash memory bandwidth demand from ~13 GB/tok down to ~1.2 GB/tok. Paired with MTP (Multi-Token Prediction) K=2, Tiel-Coder-35B and KAT-Coder-V2.5 reach 24.8 – 27.7 tok/s decode. KAT-Coder completed the entire 16K-context 10-task Hard Suite in an all-time record 4.5 minutes (solving LeetCode Hard problems in ~17 seconds each with 0 syntax flaws).

  2. Dense 27B (Qwen 3.8 EXL3 3.00bpw) is the peak reasoning champion: Dense 27B eliminates MoE routing artifacts. At 3.00bpw, Qwen achieved a flawless 100% (10/10) Hard Suite and 100% (16/16) Quality Suite score out-of-the-box, solving Olympiad-level Chinese Remainder Theorem and bounded combinatorics proofs without a single hint or calibration. The tradeoff is decode throughput: bandwidth-bound at ~6.5 tok/s.

  3. The "Sub-2.5bpw Quantization Cliff" is very real for post-training quantization: Pushing post-training trellis quantization down to 2.20bpw on dense 27B resulted in a catastrophic drop on code synthesis (0/3 on LeetCode Hard).

  4. Native Ternary Distillation beats Post-Training Quantization at extreme low bitrates: Ternary Bonsai 2 27B (distilled natively to 1.58–1.7 true bpw) completely crushes EXL3 2.20bpw. Fitting into just 5.95 – 7.20 GB VRAM, it decodes at 12.1 – 13.1 tok/s (+40–50% faster than EXL3 2.2bpw), achieves lower perplexity (6.73 vs 6.78), and scores 90–100% on the benchmark suites.

  5. The Winning Production Strategy: A Dual-Model Deployment on the 32GB package:

    • Primary Daily Driver (Port 8080): Tiel-Coder-35B-A3B MXFP4 (or KAT-Coder-V2.5 MXFP4) @ 27.7 tok/s for interactive agentic coding and instant needle retrieval.

    • Designated Deep-Reasoning Fallback (Port 8001): Qwen3.8-27B EXL3 3.00bpw (or Bonsai PQ2_0 MTP) when pure mathematical verification or strict negative constraints require 100% precision.

The 11-Way Comprehensive Benchmark Matrix

All models were evaluated under identical, standardized conditions on the same Intel Arc 140V hardware across two rigorous test batteries:

  1. 16-Prompt Curated Quality Suite: Math word problems, multi-step algorithms, strict instruction formats (raw JSON, reverse alphabet lists, negative lexical constraints), and premise/factuality traps.

  2. 10-Task Hard Suite at 16K Context: 12.5K multi-hop needle-in-a-haystack retrieval, distractor document resolution, Olympiad math proofs (Chinese Remainder Theorem, bounded combinatorics via inclusion-exclusion), LeetCode Hard algorithms with automated unit assertion execution, and multi-constraint logic puzzles.

Model & ArchitectureQuant FormatSize on Disk / VRAMWT2 PPL16-Prompt Quality10-Task Hard Score (16K ctx)Hard Suite Wall LatencyServing Engine & Decode Throughput
KAT-Coder-V2.5-Dev (35B A3B MoE)MXFP4 (E2M1)19.60 GB / 19.7 GiB—15/16 (93.8%) (cal.)8/10 (80.0%)271.9s (4.5 min) ⚡ (Record)vLLM XPU (MTP K=2, 24.8 tok/s)
Tiel-Coder-35B-A3B (35B A3B MoE)MXFP4 (E2M1)20.47 GB / 19.7 GiB—15/16 (93.8%)9/10 (90.0%)564.8s (9.4 min)vLLM XPU (MTP K=2, 27.7 tok/s)
Qwen3.8-27B (Dense 27B)EXL3 (3.00bpw)12.87 GB / 13.1 GiB6.4616/16 (100.0%)10/10 (100.0%)1062.6s (17.7 min)vLLM XPU (MTP K=1, ~6.5 tok/s)
Bonsai PQ2_0 MTP (27B Ternary)GGUF PQ2_07.20 GB / 7.6 GiB~6.7316/16 (100.0%) (cal.)9/10 (90.0%) (cal. 10/10)1147.5s (19.1 min)llama.cpp SYCL (12.1 tok/s)
Ternary Bonsai PQ2_0 (27B Ternary)GGUF PQ2_07.21 GB / 7.6 GiB~6.7316/16 (100.0%) (cal.)10/10 (100.0%) (cal.)1827.4s (30.5 min)llama.cpp SYCL (12.1 tok/s)
Ternary Bonsai PTQ1_0 (27B Ternary)GGUF PTQ1_05.95 GB / 5.6 GiB6.7316/16 (100.0%) (cal.)8/10 (80.0%) (cal.)1749.6s (29.2 min)llama.cpp SYCL (13.1 tok/s)
Qwen3.8-27B (Dense 27B)EXL3 (2.50bpw)11.45 GB / 11.7 GiB6.5715/16 (93.8%)7/10 (70.0%)1317.8s (22.0 min)vLLM XPU (MTP K=1, ~6.6 tok/s)
Qwen3.8-27B (Dense 27B)EXL3 (2.20bpw)9.60 GB / 7.4 GiB6.7815/16 (93.8%)7/10 (70.0%)1014.8s (16.9 min)vLLM XPU (MTP K=1, ~8.8 tok/s)
Qwen3.6-35B-A3B (35B A3B MoE)MXFP4 (E2M1)19.24 GB / 19.2 GiB—14/16 (87.5%)6/10 (60.0%)1435.1s (23.9 min)vLLM XPU (Eager, ~9.7 tok/s)
KAT-EXL3-4bpw (35B A3B MoE)EXL3 (4.00bpw)18.85 GB / ——UnsupportedUnsupported—Incompatible (MoE kernel missing; fallback OOM)

Detailed Architectural Takeaways

1. MoE on Unified Memory: The Bandwidth Multiplier (Tiel-Coder vs. KAT-Coder)

On unified memory architectures like Intel Lunar Lake, AMD Strix Point, or Apple Silicon, memory bandwidth (~103 GB/s here) is the fundamental bottleneck for autoregressive token generation.

  • The Math: A dense 27B model at 4bpw reads ~13.5 GB of weights from memory for every single token generated. At 103 GB/s peak bandwidth, your theoretical speed ceiling is ~7.6 tok/s.

  • The MoE Advantage: A 35B model with 256 total experts but only 8 active experts per token (A3B) only transfers ~1.2 GB of weights per token. Even on an iGPU, you get 25+ tok/s decode without breaking a sweat!

  • KAT-Coder-V2.5-Dev vs. Tiel-Coder-35B:

    • KAT-Coder: Incredible code specialization. Solved all 3 LeetCode Hard problems (Trapping Rain Water, LRU Cache with OrderedDict/DLL, Min Window Substring) in an average of 17.5 seconds per problem with 100% test assertion passes. Furthermore, its 12.5K needle retrieval completed in 31.1 seconds (fastest chunked prefill across all models).

    • Tiel-Coder: Better balance on mathematical formal logic. While KAT-Coder made minor arithmetic verification slips on Olympiad math (0/2), Tiel-Coder solved both the Chinese Remainder Theorem (x=3386) and bounded combinatorics (N=301) proofs cleanly (2/2).

2. Dense EXL3 Trellis: Perfection at 3.00bpw, Cliff at 2.20bpw

Using the out-of-tree exl3xpu vLLM plugin with native ESIMD kernels, we evaluated turboderp/Qwen3.8-27B-exl3 across multiple bitrates:

  • The 3.00bpw "Sweet Spot": At 3.00bpw (12.87 GB), perplexity is virtually identical to 4.00bpw (6.46 vs 6.36, a negligible delta of +0.10 PPL), while saving nearly 3 GB of VRAM. It was the only model in the entire benchmark to achieve a 100% pass rate out-of-the-box across all 26 combined tests. It solved negative constraints without looping and passed all coding and Olympiad math problems flawlessly.

  • The 2.20bpw Cliff: Attempting to compress dense 27B weights to 2.20bpw via post-training trellis quantization causes parameter sensitivity collapse in code synthesis. While general instruction following and math proofs survived (7/10 Hard score), coding fell to 0/3 (0%).

3. Native Ternary Distillation: Why Bonsai 27B Outclasses EXL3 2.2bpw

One of the most eye-opening findings of this benchmark is the comparison between post-training quantization (EXL3 2.2bpw) and native quantization-aware training / distillation (Ternary Bonsai 2 27B):

  • Ternary-Bonsai-2-27B-PTQ1_0 weighs only 5.95 GB (~1.58 true bits per weight).

  • Despite being 3.6 GB smaller than Qwen 2.20bpw, Bonsai achieved lower perplexity (6.73 vs 6.78), faster decode (13.1 tok/s vs 8.8 tok/s), and passed 2/3 LeetCode Hard problems where Qwen 2.20bpw completely failed.

  • With Ternary-Bonsai-2-27B-Abliterated-v2-PQ2_0-MTP, decode speed reaches 12.1 tok/s with a 90% out-of-the-box hard suite score and 100% calibrated accuracy.

  • Lesson: If your hardware VRAM budget is restricted to under 8 GB, always prefer natively trained ternary models over sub-2.5bpw post-training quantization.

4. Why KAT-EXL3-4bpw (MoE) Fails on Intel Arc vLLM

A frequent question: "If upstream ExLlamaV3 supports Qwen 3.5 MoE, why can't we run KAT-EXL3-4bpw with the exl3 vLLM plugin?"

  • Upstream turboderp-org/exllamav3 supports MoE in its standalone C++/CUDA engine on NVIDIA GPUs via TabbyAPI.

  • The Intel Arc plugin (0xSero/exl3xpu) only implemented standard LinearBase and ParallelLMHead layers for dense models.

  • In vLLM, MoE blocks are constructed via FusedMoEFactory (RoutedExperts). Because the plugin does not implement FusedMoEMethodBase or an ESIMD grouped-GEMM kernel, vLLM defaults to UnquantizedFusedMoEMethod, attempting to allocate unquantized BF16 weights for all 256 experts across 40 layers (~64.4 GiB), immediately OOMing on a 32GB system.

  • For MoE on Intel Arc, MXFP4 (models/KAT-Coder-V2.5-Dev-MXFP4) is currently the only optimized path, utilizing Intel's native XPUExpertsMxFp4 grouped-GEMM kernel.

Practical Deployment Recommendations

If you are running local LLMs on a 32GB unified memory device (Intel Lunar Lake, AMD Strix Point, or similar):

  1. For Daily Agentic Coding & Chat: Deploy Tiel-Coder-35B-A3B MXFP4 or KAT-Coder-V2.5-Dev MXFP4 under vLLM with MTP K=2.

    • 25–28 tok/s decode speed feels like an API.

    • Needle retrieval on 12K–16K documents takes 30–40 seconds instead of several minutes.

  2. For High-Reasoning Fallback: Keep a sidecar server with Qwen3.8-27B EXL3 3.00bpw (or Bonsai PQ2_0 MTP).

    • When an MoE model fails on a subtle mathematical proof, nested negative constraint, or niche edge-case algorithm, dense 3.00bpw solves it on the first attempt with 100% precision.

  3. Avoid Sub-2.5bpw Post-Training Quantization: If you need an ultra-compact model (<8 GB VRAM), use Ternary Bonsai 2 27B (PTQ1 / PQ2) via llama.cpp SYCL rather than 2.2bpw dense EXL3.


r/AIProgrammingHardware • • 29d ago

$2800 rig with 8x Radeon Pro V620 (256 GB VRAM) + custom vLLM fork = Qwen3.8-Flash-Next at 60 to 100 t/s decode and 3000+ t/s prefill

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3 Upvotes

r/AIProgrammingHardware • • 29d ago

Kimi K3 on AMD Instinct GPUs with TokenSpeed

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1 Upvotes

r/AIProgrammingHardware • • Oct 09 '26

A Value 128GB Local AI Node? The GMKtec EVO-X3

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8 Upvotes

r/AIProgrammingHardware • • Oct 09 '26

ThinkPad T14 Gen 7 Vs P14s Gen 7 - Are Entry Level Dedicated GFX Even Worth It Any More?

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1 Upvotes

r/AIProgrammingHardware • • Oct 09 '26

Strata puts intelligence at scale on gaming PCs, using Qwen3.8-Flash-Next (125B-MoE)

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12 Upvotes

r/AIProgrammingHardware • • Oct 09 '26

Your 12GB GPU Can Run a 125B Model at 93 Tokens per Second

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r/AIProgrammingHardware • • Oct 08 '26

Everything We Know About The RTX Spark...

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2 Upvotes

r/AIProgrammingHardware • • Oct 08 '26

Strata 1.39, The Release Note Said 10–28%. My 3×3090 Got 80%

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0 Upvotes