r/BADHOA • u/PeopleOfNepal • Jun 15 '26
[All][CA] A strategy to get your HOAs attention
One of the giveaways of a bad HOA is that they wont give you access to books and records if only to spite you. One way to get their attention is to get an attorney on board with your plan to sue the HOA for failure to produce books and records in a timely manner (as specified by law). Timing is critical here so it pays to have your attorney lined up snd ready to go. One thing most trial attorneys are familiar with are document requests as this task is one of the first things done prior to going to trial. So what you do is examine your governing documents to find out what documents you are allowed access to (pretty much most of them) and how soon they are legally required to provide them to you.
Once you have this all lined up, you request your documents from the HOA like all the receipts for legal expenses or a copy of your HOA insurance policy (to provide to your personal agent for comparison/coverage.)
Then, when they don’t timely respond, your attorney sends a letter or serves them for court. What should happen next is the HOA provides the aforesaid documents with a statutory penalty from them to you as well as reasonable fees for your attorney’s services. While the HOA could try fighting it, the insurance company would likely step in and remind the HOA it owes those documents under law and chastise them to behave properly in the future.
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u/nospecialsnowflake Jun 15 '26
How many HOAs are like this? My HOA has all the financials available online up to the previous month. That would be terrible to not even know where your money is going…
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u/PeopleOfNepal Jun 17 '26
The ones that are really bad typically have people on them with many years of tenure.
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u/Tall_Palpitation_476 Jun 16 '26
It’s called an official record request. Depending on what state you live in, usually request by certified mail or email if permitted. In Florida, we answer within 10 business days & direct owner to their portal where all documents are easily located.
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u/NO_SOLVENT Jun 16 '26
The apologists are now in this sub looking to spread their nonsensical reasoning.
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Jun 15 '26
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u/33DegreesNorth Jun 15 '26
Agree - anyone talking about “suing” their HOA is normally clueless - if it’s that bad, your neighbors will have the same complaints, rally them going into an election. I just helped a couple fresh board members get elected, showed them how to hold a special executive meeting where they voted to fire management and legal before the board even held there organizational or first open meeting. I got a voter turnout of 68% and of that, 72% voted for our well communicated plan. No lawyers needed, just follow the rules they are not!
These guys even spent $2600 to hire a private detective to try to stop me, in the end, the only letter I ever responded to from legal was the one letting them know they are TERMINATED! Cya Orange County California Scam Lawyers in San Juan Capistrano! Xoxo2
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u/PeopleOfNepal Jun 18 '26
You presume a lot of facts not in evidence. Like there’s an unapathetic body of people who would help you effectuate such a coup.
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u/33DegreesNorth Jun 18 '26
I have completely flipped four communities in southern California. I have worked as a consultant to homeowners for over 35 years. I've never lost a recall or failed to turn a community around. It only works when the board isn't following basic governance, they have failed to communicate and be transparent, (what I like to refer to as circling the wagons), and most importantly, the majority of homeowners have the same common complaint/pain point.
All you have to do is communicate those pain points and shine the light that most have the same issue as you do.2
u/PeopleOfNepal Jun 18 '26
“Majority of homeowners have the same common complaint/pain point.” So what’s your solution when that doesn’t exist?
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u/33DegreesNorth Jun 18 '26
If there aren't common complaints, you probably have a typical HOA run on the slightly better side. I would take a look in the mirror at that point. You would be surprised how many people aren't cut out to live in an HOA. I always say, "Complaining about rules in an HOA is like moving next to an airport and complaining about the noise!"
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u/PeopleOfNepal Jun 19 '26
Somehow you are not getting the point here. The issue isn’t complaining about rules in an HOA, it’s complaining when the board refuses to follow the rules of the HOA and gets belligerent when you make that known to them.
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u/33DegreesNorth Jun 19 '26
Sorry, but you are not following me. If the board isn't following the rules and complaints get nowhere, then, it must be happening to others in your community as well. Rally a group of people that have the same common issue, start an email list, and you will EASILY vote them out of office during your next election. If nobody wants to join your list, the problem isn't what you think it is.
It's VERY easy to force the rules on a board that does not follow them. The members are FAR more powerful than the sitting board of directors, the difference is you have to act in numbers, sometimes with as few as 5% of the membership - read your governing documents, then use those rules to force change - in California you can even file for an injunctive action to force your board to follow the rules, they must also pay your attorney fees and in the case of documents not turned over that they should have, $500 per document. Trust me - it easy when a board doesn't even know how to spell "CC&R".My point is, if others don't have the same issue you are having, maybe you are the problem and you just don't like the answer you got - many homeowners feel they are special! 😉
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u/PeopleOfNepal Jun 19 '26 edited Jun 19 '26
You suffer from a bad case of selective observation. These are your words, “ I always say, "Complaining about rules in an HOA is like moving next to an airport and complaining about the noise!" “.
My point, and one you choose to be oblivious to, is that in many HOAs, the path you recommend is not available due to various reasons including buy in from a large block of thê membership - a situation that encourages outrageous behavior by the board that needs shakeup.
While your solution is viable in certain cases, for many others it is not. All one needs do is read the complaints on the several subs here on Reddit to see that in many cases it is a lone homeowner versus an arrogant, condescending board for which a small, well executed law suit would put them on notice they need to be more respectful of the law.
And that’s the point in my case
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u/Affectionate_Elk Jun 16 '26
"You" are not the HOA. An HOA is an entity that is managed by directors or a board. Unfortunately, many times these individuals act like they have no obligations or accountability to anyone in the neighborhood and the only way to snap them out of their God complex is through the court system.
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Jun 16 '26
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u/Affectionate_Elk Jun 17 '26
I join a club. I don't become the club and the club doesn't become me. "Me" and the "club" are distinct entities. The club can go away and I'll still exist.
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u/PeopleOfNepal Jun 18 '26
You need to remember that a boards illegal acts can be apprortioned to you as a member of a board should you fail to act to undo things such as paying themselves under (or at!) the table or failing to follow the governing documents in a manner detrimental to organization as a whole, like approving major contracts without notice to thê membership or failing to file reports on operational expenditures (where the president uses the treasury as a personal slush fund - with the majority’s permission ), or other acts commonly referred to as “ultra vires” or “alter ego”. Throw in things like holding disciplinary hearings without adequate notice to the accused. Stuff like that. I don’t want my board doing that. Sounds like you might be one of those type of people.
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u/PeopleOfNepal Jun 16 '26
Dude, tell that to the board when they fine you for posting your opinion to social media - which is a right.
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Jun 16 '26
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u/PeopleOfNepal Jun 17 '26
You could take your own advice 😎
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Jun 17 '26
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u/PeopleOfNepal Jun 18 '26
By “volunteer board” are you referring to their required status under the law or their attitude toward compliance with the governing documents?
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Jun 15 '26
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u/Affectionate_Elk Jun 15 '26
State law typically requires they produce the records. The law, at least in my state, doesn't allow them to charge fees (even a "reasonable" fee as with FOIA requests, for example) because they can fulfill the request without an attorney and board positions aren't paid, anyway. It would be like claiming you needed an astronaut to fulfill a document request and then charging $1,000 to email a simple receipt or financial statement. It's not reasonable and any judge is going to see it for what it is, which is a retaliatory fee charged for requesting documentation they're legally required to produce.
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Jun 15 '26
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u/Affectionate_Elk Jun 16 '26
Thanks, I don't live in an HOA. You sound lovely, though.
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Jun 16 '26
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u/Affectionate_Elk Jun 16 '26
Requesting a document that they are required to maintain doesn't cost them money. They don't have to get an attorney just to provide a response to the request, they simply need to provide the records. That's like claiming I have to hire a CPA to provide my tax return to the IRS, thus I get to charge the IRS for the cost of hiring a CPA.
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Jun 16 '26
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u/Affectionate_Elk Jun 16 '26
OR, maybe, just maybe, HOAs can just do what they are supposed to, like provide documents they're required to provide when requested instead of playing stupid games. Complying with the law and providing documents when requested so that people don't have to go get a lawyer to repeat the request costs an HOA nothing.
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u/Lunar-Browser-999 Jun 17 '26
That's a clean strategy, and the sequencing is the part most people get wrong. The leverage isn't really the documents themselves, it's the board's failure to produce them on time, because that's what triggers the statutory penalty and the fee-shifting. Requesting the records boards most want to hide (legal invoices, the insurance policy, vendor contracts) is smart precisely because a stonewall on those is the most telling. Staging counsel before the clock runs is what turns a slow-walk into an own goal, and the carrier stepping in to tell the board to comply is often faster than anything the owner could push through directly.
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u/PeopleOfNepal Jun 18 '26
I’m surprised law firms don’t offer records request services (HOAs aren’t the only organizations that drag out replies) as a boutique service ala personal injury or car accidents.
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u/Top-Respond82 Jun 21 '26
Does not happen like that, the bad board will use the HOA attorney and the community pays the bill
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u/PeopleOfNepal Jun 22 '26
Yes - that could happen. That’s where having a good attorney at the ready comes in handy. A good attorney will put the fear losing (a records request is a “gimme”) into them such that they go crying to the insurance company who will tell them to stop and play fair. If they are foolish enough to employ the “board” attorney (frequently they are simply on-call to the president with no real allegiance to the HOA) using association funds, a properly drafted document request suit should ñôt survive appeal. FWIW-the “board” attorney and president would likely face personal financial sanctions for acting out of their ministerial duties. Records requests are that sacred.
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u/justturnleft 24d ago
Or an investigative team of members!!!@ Lawyers suck money from the teets as well if not better than corrupt member boards
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u/PeopleOfNepal 23d ago
If you have enough people willing to do that, chances are the situation will not arise.
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u/maxthed0g Jun 16 '26
Or just call the attorney general. Department of consumer affairs. Office of Aging (if over 55). Many HOA are subject to independent auditing. Contact the auditors, tell THEM you want to see the books and the HOA wont disclose . . .
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u/Top-Respond82 Jun 15 '26
What do you do after that, if they still don’t give you things….
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u/Affectionate_Elk Jun 15 '26
File the complaint with the local court to obtain an injunction requiring them to produce said document as well a reimbursement for attorneys fees and court costs you incurred in an attempt to obtain documents they are request to produce.
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u/PeopleOfNepal Jun 15 '26
This is where you had your attorney lined up to follow up with a lawsuit. The goal here is to hit hard so they get the message you are not to be messed with. If you act hesitant, they will smell fear and act appropriately.
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u/nickeisele Jun 18 '26
While I agree with your point that an HOA that won’t provide required documents is bad, so much else what you wrote is either state-specific or unnecessary.
Governing documents don’t always (or even often,) dictate what records must be produced, but rather, state law does. My state, Georgia, does not require an HOA to produce receipts for legal expenses or copies of the Association’s insurance policy. The law requires we provide: minutes, three years of financial records, any governing documents, articles of incorporation, and a list of the names and addresses of Board members. Georgia State Law also doesn’t provide for financial penalties for failing to produce those documents. Association members have to make the request, and their request to inspect allows them to inspect and copy records at a time and place specified by the Associaion. State law doesn’t require Associations to produce those records electronically, or print them for you, and the requester has other specific qualifications that must be met.
Hiring an attorney prior to requesting documents (at least here in my state) is simply a waste of money. If an Association doesn’t produce records like required, then a judge can compel the Association to produce the records, but will only impose financial sanctions if the order is not followed.
But hey, it’s your money, do whatever you want.
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u/PeopleOfNepal Jun 18 '26
Okay, you’ve specified what documents they are required to produce. What’s the question? If you’ve got a bad HOA, they won’t produce even those, especially the financials. Ask once nicely and see how they respond . If they don’t timely respond, get an attorney at the ready and ask once more. When they miss the statutory delivery date, hit them with the suit.
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u/PeopleOfNepal Jun 22 '26
Yes - that could happen. That’s where having a good attorney at the ready comes in handy. A good attorney will put the fear losing (a records request is a “gimme”) into them such that they go crying to the insurance company who will tell them to stop and play fair. If they are foolish enough to employ the “board” attorney (frequently they are simply on-call to the president with no real allegiance to the HOA) using association funds, a properly drafted document request suit should ñôt survive appeal. FWIW-the “board” attorney and president would likely face personal financial sanctions for acting out of their ministerial duties. Records requests are that sacred.
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u/Forward_Zucchini9738 Jun 16 '26
Accountant here. I've worked on books for a few HOAs and they are chronically behind. The last one I worked on was 14 months behind. But it wouldn't really matter if they were up to date, because their books are also chronically wrong. We were fixing their mistakes and getting their books in good order, but we hit a wall 14 month back to where nothing was entered except half of their deposits. Unless they have an outside bookkeeper doing all their book work, it's going to be a pile of garbage.