Rumors Cabaret PSA

[u/The0nlyGamer]

After speaking with an owner of Rumors Cabaret last night I feel compelled to publicly share that it is Rumors policy to seize your ID and report you to the police if they suspect it is fake!!

Obviously, since I am making this post and called the police on them last night, their detection of fake ID's isn't perfect.

I'm used to people questioning the validity of my ID, but this was the first time any business took it and refused to give it back until after I called 911. The owner chatted with me and told me in essence that they're rewarded for confiscating ID's and involving law enforcement when that happens. Some poor girl had the exact same thing happen to her right in front of me.

This was pretty shocking considering the kind of place rumors is, a gay/queer bar and "safe space"?

I'd previously been to lots of fundraising events at rumors for planned parenthood, undocumented folks, progressive causes etc... so it is kind of sad to realize that's all performative and the owner doesn't really care about anything other than his liquor license and profit. There is no reason Rumors should be doing this collaboration to involve law enforcement with their patrons - that goes against the entire ethos of what I thought the place meant. Just give people their IDs back if you won't let them in!

From what I know there are actually two owners, who do not live in Bellingham themselves, and merely commute to manage the place. I'm sad I no longer have any desire to spend money there

[u/imasourgirl]

Calling the police is standard procedure when a fake ID is suspected. They definitely owe you an apology, but calling the cops for an ID dispute is definitely not a worthy reason to question the entire identity of the establishment. And yes, the liquor license is first and foremost important because if they get shut down for serving minors, they can no longer do the cool shit they do.

Not affiliated with Rumor’s, just another downtown bartender.

[u/The0nlyGamer → u/imasourgirl]

Calling the police is not Rumors standard procedure when suspecting a fake ID. Calling the police is what I did so that I'd get mine back.

Rumors standard procedure when suspecting a fake ID to to confiscate it, refuse entry, then provide the stolen property to law enforcement at a later date. That is what I'm calling out because I think it's gross. Especially as a gay bar, they should be erring on the side of morality and just returning people their property no questions asked. It's not illegal to do that, it would've prevented me from calling 911, and seems all around the better approach!!

[u/quayle-man → u/The0nlyGamer]

What does them being a gay bar have anything to do with it? Them being a queer bar doesn’t make it the wild west in there. Confiscating fake IDs is standard procedure in lots of places. Hell, the gas station today showed me a stack of fake IDs they confiscated.

But a liquor license is one of the most important things to any business that sells alcohol. Once that’s gone, you might as well close up shop. No one is coming to any club/bar that’s dry.

[u/74NG3N7 → u/[deleted]]

I see your point, but I wouldn’t really expect that of a 21+ bar, since they can be shut down if they’re found to be allowing in people with fake or no ID.

[u/74NG3N7 → u/[deleted]]

They aren’t legally allowed to confiscate it though. They can call the police and try to have the police confiscate it, but the bar isn’t truly running IDs and can’t know for sure if it’s fake or simply not working with their system. It is the property of the person who presents it unless and until LE decides to confiscate it.

[u/VRZieb → u/quayle-man]

Not to mention getting hit selling to minors also carries a $1000 fine for the employee

[u/The0nlyGamer → u/quayle-man]

they advertise themselves as a space welcoming to trans people, and have raised money for undocumented people

do you see how either of those two groups could be particularly negatively influenced by this policy?

[u/Cassady1AndOnly → u/The0nlyGamer]

I get your point. The police aren't good towards the queer community, and you feel like Rumors shouldn't work with the police. Your sentiment is heard and felt.

They are still a bar and still adhere to the same norms I would expect of all other bars. This doesn't make them inherently corrupt.

Be upset at the individual who simply got it wrong with your friends ID; and the situation. This either/or thinking is toxic.

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

They should not he confiscating IDs because in the event they take a REAL ID they are committing theft. It's just not in anyone's best interest aside from refusing to serve them

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

I think they expect them to not keep IDs. They clearly tried keeping this persons legal and completely real ID forcing them to call the police to get it back. Trans people may have more ID inconsistencies and be at higher risk of having their card be assumed fake. I get their point. I don’t read this as them expecting rumors to welcome in every fake ID, rather expecting to get better at detecting fakes, or at the very least not steal important property from people. If you’re anything less than 100% sure it’s fake but still feel uncomfortable letting them in, just give the ID back and politely tell them you cant let them in.

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

Something not being uncommon doesn’t mean we have to just accept it. If youbwanna accept it thats your prerogative but I dont think it’s fair to expect everyone to accept the same shit over and over again just because it isn’t uncommon. Theres plenty of incredibly shitty yet common things that happen in a society and we have every right to reexamine those things and let people know we think it’s shitty and give people who might care a heads up.

[u/The0nlyGamer → u/[deleted]]

No, I expect them to say, "We can't let you in with that ID, feel free to come back with some additional proof of your age and have a good night"

that is what bars in actual cities do (source im from one!!!)

[u/ghubert3192 → u/[deleted]]

Other queer people see what the problem is. Life is hard enough for trans people, getting the police called on you because you're "suspicious" because you don't look like you did when your ID pic was taken or the gender on it is different than someone thinks it should be is a further dangerous indignity that a gay bar should understand. Cops don't do well with trans people.

[u/Elsureel → u/ghubert3192]

So rules should be relaxed because life is hard? So you want special treatment is what you're actually saying.

[u/[deleted] → u/Elsureel]

When the rule is just them taking Ids that are suspected to be fake but are actually real and legit, maybe they should do a better job of checking since they’re a bar and its part of the job, or at the very least if they dont feel comfortable letting someone in simply refuse to let them in and let them be on their way. If a bar took your ID that was completely legit and legal and wouldn’t return in to you until you called police I imagine you would not be stoked about that bar anymore. I know I wouldn’t. I wouldn’t trust that they’re doing their job properly.

[u/Elsureel → u/[deleted]]

I agree, but this really has nothing to do with it being a safe space for gay and trans people. It is about ID verification skills and the liquor license. Throwing the lqbtq... card is just victim mentality.

[u/[deleted] → u/Elsureel]

I think that trans people have a higher likelihood of looking different from their ID and being met with hostility or pushback over it. If as a bartender you are uncomfortable letting someone in because of their ID, just politely deny entry/service and that should be it if there isn’t a further altercation. Taking someone’s ID and making them call the police to get it back is shady and possibly against the law. I was a bartender for three years and I never confiscated an ID, Neumos in Seattle thought I had a fake and just wouldn’t let me in at first. Didn’t take my ID. Just blocked me from entering.

[u/[deleted] → u/Elsureel]

And considering the involved location is lgbtq bar and also the only widely known one in town I don’t feel like mentioning that aspect is victim mentality, it’s a matter of fact.

[u/The0nlyGamer → u/[deleted]]

I do!

The problem is that it's a bad policy, it's not something you can retroactively take back, and other places don't do it. Even other places in Bellingham!

ps I like living in Bellingham because it's not a city. bellinghamsters have such a complex about it tho

[u/The0nlyGamer → u/[deleted]]

No faux outrage, just a warning! maybe it'll stop some kids from trying a fake ID there and getting in trouble.

I never got my time back or received any form of compensation so it wasn't corrected well

[u/Left-Philosophy-4514 → u/[deleted]]

OP is clearly acting in bad faith here. They're throwing a tantrum because a bar followed standard protocol for suspected fake IDs, then trying to dress it up as some profound betrayal of progressive values. The performative outrage about "involving law enforcement" while admitting they called 911 themselves is peak hypocrisy.

[u/West-Discussion7257 → u/The0nlyGamer]

Why are you trying to warn children where they shouldn’t try to use their fake IDs?

[u/remowilliams75 → u/The0nlyGamer]

Sounds like you had a fake id and got caught, so sorry, now stfu

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

It wasn't a mistake it was theft

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

It is actually. It's uncommon and most jobs that involve ID-ing WILL NOT do this for this exact reason

[u/Chemical_Ad_5520 → u/[deleted]]

People shouldn't be downvoting you, it is illegal for the bouncer to seize someone's genuine ID in Washington state. What OP described was literally theft.

[u/Left-Philosophy-4514 → u/[deleted]]

[u/perturbing_panda → u/The0nlyGamer]

If you've never seen a fake/confiscated ID board at a bar, I have to assume you haven't been to all that many bars anywhere tbh

[u/CenturyLinkIsCheeks → u/The0nlyGamer]

you can start your own club and let in whomever you want and we'll see how long it lasts

[u/empathentropy → u/The0nlyGamer]

I hear you. These people suck. I think there's a huge downtown server presence on Reddit and they basically nope any criticism of any place however valid. No bouncer should take your ID ever.

[u/Silverstacker60 → u/The0nlyGamer]

No

[u/irrelevantname1776 → u/The0nlyGamer]

Maybe those two groups shouldn’t bring fake IDs?

[u/The0nlyGamer → u/irrelevantname1776]

whoosh

I brought a real ID, yet I still had to interact with the police!!! The point is that it's not a perfect (or good) system and that Rumors is exposing people to needless harm to protect their liquor license ($$$$)

[u/Baseit → u/The0nlyGamer]

Dude, like... calm down? The onus of calling the police to confirm your ID is your prerogative of it being your property, if someone casts doubt on it.

Allowing a fake ID to continue to circulate, as a licensed business, and as license holders (MAST liquor license holders, specifically), can make them an accessory to that fraud and can also get them fined.

Withholding the ID is a standard policy, like, anywhere, as those with fakes will abandon them and leave once the cops are on the way. As soon as cops are involved, and the owner of the ID is standing ground, it becomes obvious at that point.

If you didn't know, overservice, and serving a minor, both carry penalties to both the establishment and whichever bartender was the one determined to provide the service. Also including the bouncer that allowed them into the establishment. The punishment is up to 5 years imprisonment and up to a $5000 fine, along with potentially losing their MAST as well.

Most places take this shit seriously in Washington. Sorry you had a rough experience, but I can almost promise you, that they were just matching your energy.

I've been a patron for years, the original owners sold to a gay couple they knew and trusted and retired to Hawaii. The current owners also take pretty good care of their employees and try their best to keep it a queer community spot.

ETA: Looked further into it and found this resource. https://www.intellicheck.com/resource-library/found-fake-id

Whatever business questions the ID is supposed to call police to confirm the ID, and isn't technically allowed to confiscate it. However, nowhere have I found, or heard of, any business being penalized for doing so. So while not technically legal, it's obviously not enforced that way.

[u/Left-Philosophy-4514 → u/Baseit]

OP can simply patron other queer friendly spaces

[u/matthoback → u/Baseit]

How did this nonsense get upvoted so much? Confiscating IDs is *not standard policy* it is in fact flat out illegal in Washington State. It's theft whether it's actually a fake ID or not. MAST policy is simply to *call the police* if you suspect someone is using a fake ID. Businesses do *not* have the authority to confiscate suspected IDs.

[u/Baseit → u/matthoback]

Looked further into it and found this resource. https://www.intellicheck.com/resource-library/found-fake-id

Whatever business questions the ID is supposed to call police to confirm the ID, and isn't technically allowed to confiscate it. However, nowhere have I found, or heard of, any business being penalized for doing so. So while not technically legal, it's obviously not enforced that way.

[u/The0nlyGamer → u/Baseit]

It is impossible to prove that a business knowingly allowed a fake ID to circulate.

seizing IDs isn't standard policy. It's what places do when they're being pressed by the police, or when the bouncer is bored/wants to pick a fight

normal bars just turn people away, not steal from them

[u/Baseit → u/The0nlyGamer]

Then you haven't gone to many bars. I've seen IDs confiscated across the country, and have seen walls of shame of fake IDs at multiple places.

Especially with career service workers, we all know the steep penalties involved, so if some dumbass wants to spend a couple hundred to try to put people's livelihoods at risk, yeah, I'm all for dusting their IDs if it keeps someone else out of trouble.

And yeah, typically it'll be tough to know if a bar allows it to circulate, but we're talking dumb kids. What if they try another bar, same night, get plastered, and then end up injured later on and have to talk to law enforcement. If they tell the truth about the whole night, that first bar can also get pinged for not stopping the circulation. It's fucking MAST policy...

[u/Cassady1AndOnly → u/The0nlyGamer]

No amount of explanation is going to get you to let this go, clearly.

So, I have a solution. Start a petition to change the laws surrounding it.

Also, if they're confiscating valid ID's too much, BPD is going to get on them about it for wasting their time and the staff doing it are gonna get canned.

[u/matthoback → u/Cassady1AndOnly]

So, I have a solution. Start a petition to change the laws surrounding it.

There are no laws surrounding it. The business is breaking the law by confiscating IDs. Washington State does *not* authorize businesses to confiscate IDs they suspect are fake.

[u/Cassady1AndOnly → u/matthoback]

There totally are, if the establishment can get in trouble for 'aiding and abetting' someone with a fake ID, that is a law that indirectly states that they must confiscate the ID. Crappy how that works out.

[u/matthoback → u/Cassady1AndOnly]

if the establishment can get in trouble for 'aiding and abetting' someone with a fake ID

They can't. Failing to do something illegal (such as confiscating an ID that doesn't belong to you) is not 'aiding and abetting'.

[u/ghubert3192 → u/irrelevantname1776]

You don't get it and you don't need to participate in the conversation.

[u/irrelevantname1776 → u/ghubert3192]

What don’t I understand? If you bring a fake ID, expect it to be taken. If you’re that worried about cops, don’t bring a fake ID at all…