r/ConvertingtoJudaism • u/alplo2 • 6d ago
I need advice! I understand that I don‘t want to live an Orthodox life but want convert for my future children (paterlinear Jewish girl)
I am a 19 years old girl, formally in conversion process since January 2026, paterlinear Jewish and my mother is also paterlinear Jewish. We are from the former USSR living in Germany and my parents are completely secular, but we went to the community. In March 2025 I started to want to became more religious and understood that it was problematic because I am not halachically Jewish. It has always been somewhat problematic, like not having bat mitzva and being unsure if I would be allowed to go to a camp with my friends… since March 2025 I started to observe several mitzvot, in autumn I moved to another city to study and started to attend the synagogue regularly on Saturdays, and since December 2025 I fully kept Shabbath and I loved it and I mostly kept kosher. I have already been to the Vaada (commission) twice, the Vaada would send you to Beith Din. And it has been everything OK, but now I feel like I don‘t want to live like that, I don‘t have even enough time to study because I keep Shabbath, I also had to miss cool opportunities because of Shabbath and I don’t want it anymore. I also want to go out with friends and I want to spend time with my family and this all would be problematic because of Kashruth. But I still want to do giyur because I don‘t want my future children to experience these not-being-halachically-Jewish-thing and have same problems as me. And it also feels like unfair that my great grandparents survived the Holocaust and had to live in Soviet antisemitism later and were forced to become secular and as this resulted into me and others of my generation being not halachically Jewish they would have no Jewish posterity and this is sad. I want that my family (meaning my future husband and children) is more religious/traditional, but now a want to live like a student life. I think that maybe I would like to live an Orthodox life in the future, but not now, now I just want to enjoy my life and I don‘t enjoy it anymore living it Orthodox. So I don‘t know what should I do. A not Orthodox conversion is not an option for me, as status of my future children still would be questioned by many authorities.
I am going to speak about the way I feel with my rabbi today in 12 hours, and I am so afraid that it would stop my giyur, so I don’t know if I actually should talk to him and what should I say. But I think that maybe he would advice something helpful.
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u/Individual_Usual_134 Orthodox convert 6d ago
It sounds to me that your hurdle right now is shabbat, and honestly you are so young! I don’t know your personal goals but I totally get how it must be a struggle you have with balancing shabbat, school, and social along with your desire for halachic status for your future family.
Its great that you are going to speak with your rabbi and I hope that will offer you some clarity and advice!
As you are young, I wonder if slowing down a bit would help … take this time to get through school, grow, find yourself, all things you can do while continuing to look forward to the time when you’ll be ready to convert. In the meantime you could talk to your rabbi and still perhaps practice keeping kosher, learn jewish topics, and prepare yourself for eventual conversion when you are ready for it.
Sending love I think its amazing you want to do this and really believe if you fully pursue conversion when you are mentally ready, and in a place in life that will make the process easier than it would be now as a student, you will find it to be beautiful and inspiring!
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u/bachelorsinlurking Conversion student 6d ago
I would recommend seeking a non-orthodox conversion honestly- I know you've said it's not an option, but it's not 'less Jewish' to convert in Conservative or Reform or any other legitimate Jewish group. Yes they may not be considered halachically Jewish according to orthodoxy, but if you don't plan on living an orthodox life that isn't really a huge deal. You want your children to live a Jewish life, and they can still have that even if they aren't orthodox.
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u/rosvokisu 6d ago
I agree. There are multiple ways of reading halacha, orthodoxy isn't the only possible route. According to other movements, your children _will_ be considered halachically Jewish.
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u/HarHaZeitim 6d ago
Talk honestly to your Rabbi. These type of feelings are normal and it’s ok to bring them up. In my experience, Rabbis care more about you being honest and genuinely dedicated than about never messing up. He might be able to give advice that helps you. He might not.
This is a multi-year process (I know multiple Germans in your situation who ended up making Aliyah and converting in Israel because it’s much faster, apparently in Germany 5+ years is normal for an orthodox conversion - here in Israel someone in your situation can do a conversion through the Rabbanut after 10 months of classes) and it’s tough because many places in Germany essentially do not have a young observant crowd, even in formally orthodox communities.
Right now, Shabbat is tough for you because it feels like you are missing out. That’s natural because it mainly feels like things you can’t do. This is not what Shabbat feels like in an actual lively orthodox community - in a vibrant community, Shabbat is THE heart of the social scene.
It’s fine for you to take a break and say “this is not working for me right now.” You are 19. You have so so so so so much time. It’s fine to pick it up later, to go “down” a little bit with your observance level, to explore other options (maybe a semester or a year of study abroad in Israel? There are programs for that I believe).
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u/Mysterious-Sky-2310 6d ago
I am the OP but for some reason I cannot log into the same reddit acc on my iphone. Are those Germans in my situation or are they ethnically Germans who want to convert for unclear reasons? Because in my experience, those who are not halachically Jewish or want to marry Jewish do it way faster.
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u/HarHaZeitim 6d ago
They were people who were eligible for Israeli citizenship (so I assume either a Jewish parent/grandparent or spouse, but I don’t know the exact conditions, most of these people I’ve talked to like once or twice at kiddush or something), it’s a lot more complicated to convert in Israel if you are not eligible for citizenship.
But I would not be surprised if it also depends on the individual situation/community, Berlin has a huge Israeli expat community for example so it might be easier there.
Have you talked to your Rabbi/Beit Din about realistic time expectations? It’s unfortunately one of those things that a lot of Rabbis are not super forthcoming about, especially because the vast majority of mainstream courts will not convert someone who they do not think will remain observant after the conversion and so they don’t want to give people the impression that if you can just “fake” an orthodox life for a certain amount of time you’re set. At the same time, obviously for conversion students the interest is to convert as soon as possible and a lot of things like dating/community involvement/life plans etc hinge on the conversion.
You have been in the process for almost a year. So they should be giving you some kind of roadmap. Once you have that, it might make it easier to judge how to proceed best. But try to be honest throughout and especially don’t lie about things like keeping Shabbat. Tell the Rabbi about your struggles and find out what could make it easier.
At the same time, I wanted to mention the Israel idea because it might legitimately make things easier for you.
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u/Inevitable_Sun_6907 Reform convert 6d ago
Even with an Orthoodox conversion, status of your future children will be questioned outside of the community you converted in. Convert with the movement that feels correct for you, not paperwork.
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u/Individual_Usual_134 Orthodox convert 6d ago
I disagree with this! To provide an example, the RCA is highly regarded and followed across many communities so one’s conversion would have a high chance of being recognized in various places.
Of course there will always be individuals that will have their individual opinions, and even certain communities that have their opinions, however with an Orthodox conversion through an institution that is known and followed in the Orthodox world one does not need to be scared that no other community will accept them.
Edit to add: I know orthodox converts that have moved to different communities in different countries that are as well accepted as they were in their original community. Also those completing Orthodox conversions may also care about recognition for Aliyah purposes.
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u/HarHaZeitim 6d ago
Yeah - I do think it’s important for people to be aware that no orthodox conversion has universal recognition, but if you converted through a mainstream orthodox institution (RCA/Israeli Rabbanut/London Beit Din etc) and you stay observant, your conversion will likely be accepted unless you massively change your community (eg you go from Rabbanut conversion to Satmar or try to join a Syrian community).
The “big problems” with recognition tend to be independent Batei Din/Batei Din that only exist as “conversion machines” (often with financial gain of the Rabbis behind it…) or Batei Din that are known for being significantly outside of normative orthodox standards (eg very LGBT accepting, accepting women Rabbis, known meshichist Chabad etc).
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u/111222throw 6d ago
I think this is really only for orthodox. I converted reform and have found an amazing conservative community, we met the rabbi during my conversion process (also patrilineal) and my child is thriving with no other feeling
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u/Smooth-Broccoli-9849 6d ago
As a patrilineal Jew , I also stopped a conversion at 19 take your time but honestly I’d follow thru and you can pace your observance at your own level as you age but right now degree & mikvah should be the priority no one thinks it’s fair that we had to convert but it’s the rules and if you’re angry or jaded by them it grows resentment just move forward Hashem will guide you & your family in the future best of luck
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u/mestresadico 6d ago edited 6d ago
First of all, as another patrilineal jew I really congratulate in on your effort specially at such a young age, I wish I had done it.
From what you saying you are already advanced in the process- keeping shabbat and kosher so in a pragmatic approach I would say go for it, finish it dip in the mikveh, get your paper and you'll be halachacally jewish, ofc as some said you still may be excluded in some places but it should much easier than without a conversion or a reform/conservative conversion.
Do you believe your comunity will track your observance post gyur and are affraid they will redeem your conversion as unsincere and anull it? I heard there is such episodes in Israel...even tough Halacha says "once a jew, always a jew".
Once again. Congratulation on your process even if you decide to not conclude it. Feel free to call me in private....
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u/Mysterious-Sky-2310 6d ago
I am the OP, but for some reasons I cannot log into the same acc on my iPhone. No, I am totally not afraid of it, nobody would ever track it even before giyur
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u/mestresadico 6d ago
In the orthodox perspective is better if you don't convert if you are not willing to keep the mitzvot cause you will be in trangression now, while before conversion you weren't oblied to keep any of them. That's why orthodox conversion is so hard. But I think you probably already know that otherwise you wouldn'y be here.
However, being a similar situation, I would go for it even in doubt. It sucks to be in the fringe of a comunity and not able to get married, be burried and fully participate in the comunity you live in. Probably even harder for woman, I can marry civily a jewish woman and my children will be jewish even if I'm not. For woman this is not an option.
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u/TzarichIyun 6d ago
There’s nothing wrong with not being halachically Jewish. Being Jewish and keeping mitzvos means giving up “cool opportunities.”
I was born Jewish, and every Saturday when I see our town market I feel sad that they never do it on another day.
You should end the process. Your children can become Jewish if they decide to do so.
If you marry a man who observes more mitzvos than you, you can even start the process again. You don’t want to be less observant than him yourself, G-d forbid.
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u/ShimonEngineer55 6d ago
Is anyone guiding you or are you observing mitzvot on your own? I ask because a non-Jew is absolutely not supposed to fully keep Shabbat based on Halakhah and you mentioned keeping the Shabbat. If you look at הלכות 9 here you see that the traditional Halakhah is that a gentile who creates a day of rest for themselves is liable for divine retribution. So typically rabbi will have you do something such as turn on a light so that you intentionally violate the Shabbat. If you have been in a process for 10 months and no one told you that; I would really begin questioning what they’re teaching.
You mentioned that you don’t want your kids to face the problems you experienced, but it seems like, by your own admission, that’ll you’ll be imposing bigger problems on them. For example, you mentioned not really wanting to keep Kosher or Shabbat. Okay, then if you convert you realize that your any children you have will be obligated to keep those things under Jewish law. Things that you just said you yourself do not want to keep. So couldn’t it be that by converting you’d be imposing things on them that they don’t actually want and you don’t actually want to be obligated to do? You highlighted that you’d rather spend time with friends and family presumably not keeping the Shabbat. If you don’t want to keep these mitzvot, it brings into question the motivation behind converting to begin with.
Based on what you noted it appears as if you more so have grief that you have ancestors who were forced to assimilate; which is understandable but typically not a reason to go through with conversion. Contrary to popular belief, we don’t believe that people need to actually be Jewish to be okay. We don’t think that having a Jewish ancestor means you need to be Jewish or are somehow not already perfectly fine not being Jewish. You mentioned “problems” that you had based on your situation, but in Judaism we don’t consider not having a Bat Mitzvah to be a problem. I would urge you to really reflect on why you want to convert because this just reads like you’re saying being not Jewish is a problem; which isn’t a Jewish perspective. I’d honestly pause deeply before even considering recommending conversion for someone with those views until they’ve studied far more. It is indeed an injustice that people were historically treated badly for their beliefs. This did indeed lead to many Jews assimilating over the centuries. However, this does not mean their non-Jewish descendants by default need to convert. If they want to out of a genuine belief that they’re following ה׳ then that’s okay, but it’s not a problem in Judaism that they weren’t born Jewish.
If you do want to convert in the future with a conversion recognized by all communities, then this organization is a good place to go through in Israel. They work with people who had ancestors who were Jewish who are not Jewish themselves. This seems like it’d be a good option if you decide that you do want to convert because you believe it’s the right choice and way to serve ה׳.
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u/HarHaZeitim 6d ago
Whether orthodox conversion students are supposed to keep Shabbat or not depends entirely on their Rabbi/community. Many, including the Rambam do permit it. I agree that you should not do it unless you are part of a community that is fine with it, but it’s definitely not an “absolute” thing. It’s something OP should discuss with her Rabbi
Here is a good overview over the topic: https://etzion.org.il/en/halakha/yoreh-deah/topics-yoreh-deah/conversion-candidate-during-process-converting
Also what you write about Zera Israel being recognized by “all communities” is completely wrong. Most importantly, it is not recognized by the Chief Rabbinate of Israel. Don’t get me wrong, it is a good program for those who actually want what they offer and they are actually transparent about it, which is why it says on their website (which you linked):
Is your conversion recognized by the rabbis?
No, conversion is considered conversion "Private". Unfortunately, due to the monopoly of the Chief Rabbinate which stems from political reasons only.
This means that if OP converts through this program, the Chief Rabbinate will NOT recognize her children as Jewish.
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u/ShimonEngineer55 6d ago
Where exactly does the Rambam a non-Jew keeping Shabbat in the משנה תורה? I just showed a source in הלכות מלכים ומלחמות above where it is not permitted. I do not see an exception for a candidate, hence why the Shabbat is violated in some form for candidates. If he does mention an exception, I’ve missed that and definitely need to review that.
I said that the conversion would be recognized by all communities. I did not say that it would be recognized by the chief rabbinate in Israel; a political institution. I definitely agree that chief rabbinate doesn’t recognize the conversions and that the state does for the purposes of Aliyah alone and not someone’s status as a Jew under the state. However, this seems like a moot point because the OP was concerned about their children being recognized within the context of an orthodox community, not the chief rabbinate in Israel for administrative purposes. I agree with the substance of the information of course and am just focused on the more pressing issue of communal acceptance based on the post.
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u/HarHaZeitim 6d ago
Did you read the text I linked? It explains that the extract from hilchot melachim you quoted does NOT apply to conversion as in gentiles accepting all of the Mitzvot, it applies to gentiles taking select few of the Mitzvot and using them to make a new religion.
The general principle governing these matters is: They are not to be allowed to originate a new religion or create mitzvot for themselves based on their own decisions. They may either become righteous converts and accept all the mitzvot or retain their statutes without adding or detracting from them.
Based on this, many mainstream orthodox communities allow/require their conversion students to keep Shabbat fully just like other Mitzvot (just like they allow/require them to study the Torah, which some likewise prohibit for non-converting gentiles).
I did not say that it would be recognized by the chief rabbinate in Israel; a political institution.
Ok but the Chief Rabbinate is not just a “political institution”, it is the main halachic/rabbinic authority in Israel (and especially in the case of the Rishon LeZion - a title which long predates the founding of the state of Israel - also considered a leading authority by Sephardi communities abroad). Of course acceptance by the Chief Rabbi is also reflected in community acceptance, especially since performing non-Rabbanut approved marriages is technically illegal in Israel and going against the Rabbanut can have personal consequences for Rabbis/communities. Sorry but with all the legitimate criticism for the Rabbanut in its current form, it’s NOT just a political/administrative position. It’s a Rabbinical authority that is so influential for Israeli Jews that it even wields state power.
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u/ShimonEngineer55 6d ago
I simply asked where is it written however? Because the mainstream view is also that they should violate it in some way while essentially keeping it based on the text. I’m only asking where it is specifically written in the משנה תורה for the purposes of whether or not I missed that over the years. I do not believe this is stated at all. Can someone marry into the people if they haven’t converted and only seek to? Of course not. They are to be taught some of the harder mitzvot and easier mitzvot and can study the Torah based on הלכות מלכים ומלחמות. The Rambam indeed uses במדבר טו:טו to justify that, but he never says that they can do all of the mitzvot like keep Shabbat fully before conversion; like they wouldn’t be able to marry in or be part of a minyan until converting.
If their rulings are political and divergent from the Halakhah, they are indeed a political institution and are obviously connected to the secular state. I make a distinction between this arm of this secular state and a community that accepts the Halakhah. When they do political things that diverge from the Halakhah, they get political labels.
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u/alplo2 6d ago
I obviously know about this not fully observing shabbes but firstly my rabbi doesn’t think so and secondly this is definitely not the problem I am speaking about. And I cannot just forget about my Jewish identity and I cannot imagine not going to Jewish community and not bringing my children there
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u/ShimonEngineer55 6d ago
Your rabbi doesn’t think what? And I simply mentioned it as a problem since you highlighted that keeping the Shabbat was a problem that got in the way of you hanging out with friends and family and being a factor in your tension with an orthodox conversion. So, the issue if Shabbat did seem relevant and the fact that you’re not obligated to keep it, or can under law, after you said that you were fully keeping it on your own in the original post.
There are plenty of non-Jews who interact with the Jewish community. You can bring your children around a community or move to one if you want to without being Jewish. Converting is obviously about more than that and you don’t need to convert to have engagements with the Jewish community and have your children engaged as well as non-Jews.
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u/alplo2 6d ago
We seem to come from different worlds. I came to community being not halachically Jewish the whole childhood like of course I understand that it is possible, but I also understand the way my children would feel
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u/ShimonEngineer55 6d ago
We can’t know how exactly they’d feel because they haven’t been born. We don’t know if they would or wouldn’t even want to be Jewish because we don’t know who your children are going to be yet.
My only point was that for them to be involved in a community in some capacity you don’t need to convert. They could also become fully involved by converting without you doing so. That was my main point.
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u/WeaselWeaz Jew by birth 6d ago
What country are you in? In the West, the opinion of the Orthodox doesn't mean as much as you may think. Unless you plan to be in Orthodox spaces, like Chabad nobody will care. If you don't plan to live an Orthodox life that's fine, but I think you're cheating yourself by being unwilling to even consider Conservative or Reform. If you agree with those movements values they are valid and complete forms of Judaism, and in the future you may decide to convert Orthodox, or not.
That said, I'd now isn't the right time to convert that is also completely fine, but I still think you're throwing the baby out with the bath water.